Author Topic: Politics in 2018  (Read 126247 times)

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Offline Altair

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2018, 21:26:32 »
I'll stand with you on Scheer isn't desirable but for me neither is Trudeau and his party.  I really hate feeling up against the wall for choice. 

As for your feeling towards what seems to be your true interest, the Libertarians, how do you expect them to gain traction and become a contender if you won't support them with your vote?   They won't become anything with support like that.
I do struggle with not voting for the libertarians, but the party is truly too small for me to vote for.  They only had candidates in 72 ridings in 2015.

I have considered giving them money every time the LPC emails me asking me for some.

Someday I'll care about milpoints.

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2018, 21:50:42 »
I do struggle with not voting for the libertarians, but the party is truly too small for me to vote for.  They only had candidates in 72 ridings in 2015.

I have considered giving them money every time the LPC emails me asking me for some.

This last go around and probably the next, l wasn't going to vote for any of the usual suspects.  There was an independent candidate in my riding.  They got my vote for the reasons that l would be doing my civic duty by voting, l would give the usual suspects the finger by not supporting them and with any luck, the independent would get enough votes to get his deposit back.  A win-win-win, so to speak.

And again, if you don't stand up and give the Libertarians your support that's one less vote they'll miss out on towards becoming a serious party.  Your vote would not be wasted, rather it would have in my opinion more weight by your voting with your principals and heart.  Be an enabler instead of an anchor, there's enough sheep out there to vote Liberal anyhow.

Offline ballz

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2018, 00:11:48 »
When I said I'd probably be voting for a fringe party, it was the Libertarians I was speaking of. I hope they learned a lesson in 2015 after some internal strife that caused them to go from about 140 candidates to 72... I don't want to get into the inner-party drama but I think the leader, Tim Moen, did learn a good hard lesson out of that. I hope they do better in 2019, even though 2015 was technically a record year for them so that's something I guess...

As I said in another post when I was advocating for them back in 2015, there is empirical data to support that when 10% of a population adopts a principled / unshakeable belief, the rest of population quickly follows... in other words, 10% is somewhat of an ideological tipping point. So in voting for the libertarians, that really was the short-term goal. I'd rather support a party that not only represents my views, but also I can sleep relatively well knowing my voice was not only heard but that the reprehensible ones among them won't actually be able to do any harm since they won't be in power, for now.

If I vote CPC or LPC, I'm culpable for the idiocy that ensues. It's pretty catch 22.

8 years with a majority and not a single social conservative motion passed in the Commons to force his views on anyone.

Bill C-51? Which the Liberals argued against and then passed shortly after coming into government :facepalm: Tough on crime legislation which had minimum sentences that were unconstitutional? (and now, of course, the Liberals are still jailing people for marijuana... frig sakes, the people just can't win). Even something like income splitting is socially conservative. It is literally the government providing financial support to those who live the way the party has decided is in best interest of society. (i.e. married and with kids). I don't disagree with some social conservative values, but I don't want a government that actively legislates or supports it through taxpayers.

The CPC Facebook page just ran an ad about how PM Harper had passed twice as much legislation in the same time PM Justin Trudeau has been Prime Minister.... what kind of "small government" CPC is that exactly? It made me sick.

I think Stephen Harper, Justin Trudeau, and Andrew Scheer are the same disease (big intrusive government) masking each other as the cure for one another.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 00:17:32 by ballz »
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2018, 14:28:32 »
From the "next RCAF fighter" thread ...

He's waiting for the knives to come out after Scheer loses to Trudeau.

I agree ... but he's not the only one.

My guess (valid until end of the afternoon, only) is that Trudeau wins a minority in 2019 and both Scheer and Singh resign.

I have no views on who the NDP should select ... someone who doesn't alienate Quebecers for a start, I suppose.

The Conservatives need, in my opinion, to go young, female, bilingual and media savvy ... and there really aren't any obvious candidates, yet. Maybe one of Bernier or O'Toole is their best choice if:

     1. Scheer still cannot connect with Canadians in 2018; and

     2. Trudeau doesn't really, massively screw the pooch.
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Online Remius

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2018, 14:32:21 »
From the "next RCAF fighter" thread ...

I agree ... but he's not the only one.

My guess (valid until end of the afternoon, only) is that Trudeau wins a minority in 2019 and both Scheer and Singh resign.

I have no views on who the NDP should select ... someone who doesn't alienate Quebecers for a start, I suppose.

The Conservatives need, in my opinion, to go young, female, bilingual and media savvy ... and there really aren't any obvious candidates, yet.


Carolyn Mulroney.  She'll gain some experience provincially as an MPP then make the jump to federal politics when Scheer resigns and another drawn out leadership race starts up. young, female and media savvy plus has some family pedigree.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2018, 14:45:22 »
I expect the young Ms Mulroney will not hit the federal stage before 2023 or so; better to work out your mistakes on the provincial stage than the federal one.

Besides, when the Ontario Tories somehow inexplicably tank this year's Ontario election with their usual stream of unforced errors, she may be well positioned to take over the provincial party first...
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Online Remius

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2018, 15:02:28 »
I expect the young Ms Mulroney will not hit the federal stage before 2023 or so; better to work out your mistakes on the provincial stage than the federal one.

Besides, when the Ontario Tories somehow inexplicably tank this year's Ontario election with their usual stream of unforced errors, she may be well positioned to take over the provincial party first...

Not implausible but do the math.

She wins her seat provincially in 2018.  If Brown wins she'll likely get a cabinet post.  if Brown loses, my bet is someone more prominent than her will run.  Maybe a former federal CPC.  Anyways, we have a federal election in fall 2019.  Scheer loses and resigns.  Interim leader so and so takes over and leader (if history is any indication) is chosen in 2021 for a 2023 election.  I can see her make a run in 2023 with 2 years as the opposition leader and 3 years of cabinet work or as an opposition critic provincially.  She would have 5-6 years experience.  Trudeau had about 7 years before being elected PM.

   
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Offline Altair

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2018, 17:49:20 »
Not implausible but do the math.

She wins her seat provincially in 2018.  If Brown wins she'll likely get a cabinet post.  if Brown loses, my bet is someone more prominent than her will run.  Maybe a former federal CPC.  Anyways, we have a federal election in fall 2019.  Scheer loses and resigns.  Interim leader so and so takes over and leader (if history is any indication) is chosen in 2021 for a 2023 election.  I can see her make a run in 2023 with 2 years as the opposition leader and 3 years of cabinet work or as an opposition critic provincially.  She would have 5-6 years experience.  Trudeau had about 7 years before being elected PM.

   
and she's a moderate.
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Offline ballz

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2018, 17:52:48 »
From the "next RCAF fighter" thread ...

I agree ... but he's not the only one.

My guess (valid until end of the afternoon, only) is that Trudeau wins a minority in 2019 and both Scheer and Singh resign.

I have no views on who the NDP should select ... someone who doesn't alienate Quebecers for a start, I suppose.

The Conservatives need, in my opinion, to go young, female, bilingual and media savvy ... and there really aren't any obvious candidates, yet. Maybe one of Bernier or O'Toole is their best choice if:

     1. Scheer still cannot connect with Canadians in 2018; and

     2. Trudeau doesn't really, massively screw the pooch.

If Trudeau is reduced to a minority I can see Scheer staying on, particularly if the CPC came within striking distance of a minority.

I feel pretty confident Bernier will run again if there is another leadership contest. However, this time I think there are some prominent folks like Peter McKay that would run (God I hope not) and it would probably be a very contentious race, this time amongst some well-known people. Could Rona Ambrose return? I think, given her performance as interim leader (admittedly a much easier job than being the actual leader) and the fact that she is a woman would also make her a formidable option. If it can't be Bernier, I'd hope for Ambrose.

While it was happening, I thought she was doing a great job. Now that she's been replaced by Scheer, I just watched some YouTube clips of her and it really leaves you thinking how the Liberals would look now if they had been facing her every day in the HoC over the last few months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3f4ts0Ob7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVv2j7tbHsg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAJZYLgy41o
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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2018, 17:55:35 »
Could Rona Ambrose return? I think, given her performance as interim leader (admittedly a much easier job than being the actual leader) and the fact that she is a woman would also make her a formidable option.

Maybe that's her plan all along. Out of sigh, out of mind... for the time being. Distance herself from the old crowd and come back stronger than ever.
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Offline Underway

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2018, 17:58:33 »
I agree ... but he's not the only one.

My guess (valid until end of the afternoon, only) is that Trudeau wins a minority in 2019 and both Scheer and Singh resign.

I have no views on who the NDP should select ... someone who doesn't alienate Quebecers for a start, I suppose.

The Conservatives need, in my opinion, to go young, female, bilingual and media savvy ... and there really aren't any obvious candidates, yet. Maybe one of Bernier or O'Toole is their best choice if:

     1. Scheer still cannot connect with Canadians in 2018; and

     2. Trudeau doesn't really, massively screw the pooch.

With identity politics the main discussion at this point I'm pretty sure the Conservatives will 18 wheeler it.  Is that tires screeching I hear?
http://www.metronews.ca/news/ottawa/2017/05/29/lgbt-conservatives-not-worried-scheer-wont-attend-pride.html

Of course events ...

Offline FJAG

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2018, 20:19:51 »
I see our illustrious provincial leader is now taking on a Tim Horton's franchisee (in fact the original one) who has taken steps to even out her raise in the minimum wage by cutting back on benefits they had previously given their employees voluntarily.

Ontario premier calls Tim Hortons heir 'a bully' over wage actions
Kathleen Wynne reacts to CBC story uncovering compensation changes at franchise after minimum wage hike


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/wynne-minimum-wage-1.4473156

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

I'm not sure if she's just naive or thick as a post. We're already the province with the leading debt and she just keep piling on the cost of living for all of us in just another shameless ploy to get herself and her miserable party reelected.

Unlike Wynne who simply raises taxes or debt when she wants more money, business owners must either raise prices or take a cut in profits to meet rising wages. I wonder how long it will take her to change legislation so that the benefits this employer offered voluntarily become mandatory under our employment standards legislation? My guess: before the next election.

If she really wants "a province where everyone can get ahead" then she should just resign and take her moron party with her. :2c:

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Online Remius

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2018, 20:45:24 »
I really do not want to see her or her party win.  But with all of these freebies she’s trying to Wynn the vote. 

Given that her current wage increase and free prescriptions affect mostly the younger demographic who traditionally have a lower voter turn out, I wonder if she’ll come up with something for the older demographic that might be feeling left out...
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2018, 20:54:43 »
I really do not want to see her or her party win.  But with all of these freebies she’s trying to Wynn the vote. 

Given that her current wage increase and free prescriptions affect mostly the younger demographic who traditionally have a lower voter turn out, I wonder if she’ll come up with something for the older demographic that might be feeling left out...

The key, as usual, is Toronto and area (plus Ottawa) where all her strength is centred and which usually tosses the election to the Liberals. I also expect the public service unions will come out hard for her again because they just get one freebie after another.

I fear that as long as she keeps doling out the cash, she'll be unstoppable because those constituents don't care what the future debt burden will be.

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Offline Altair

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2018, 22:28:29 »
From what I hear, the free prescriptions are not covering much.
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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2018, 23:20:40 »
I see our illustrious provincial leader is now taking on a Tim Horton's franchisee (in fact the original one) who has taken steps to even out her raise in the minimum wage by cutting back on benefits they had previously given their employees voluntarily.

Ontario premier calls Tim Hortons heir 'a bully' over wage actions
Kathleen Wynne reacts to CBC story uncovering compensation changes at franchise after minimum wage hike


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/wynne-minimum-wage-1.4473156

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

I'm not sure if she's just naive or thick as a post. We're already the province with the leading debt and she just keep piling on the cost of living for all of us in just another shameless ploy to get herself and her miserable party reelected.

Unlike Wynne who simply raises taxes or debt when she wants more money, business owners must either raise prices or take a cut in profits to meet rising wages. I wonder how long it will take her to change legislation so that the benefits this employer offered voluntarily become mandatory under our employment standards legislation? My guess: before the next election.

If she really wants "a province where everyone can get ahead" then she should just resign and take her moron party with her. :2c:

 :cheers:

Or we could all pay 10 cents more for a cup of truly crappy coffee.......seeing as the collective we voted to raise the minimum wage.
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2018, 23:28:47 »
Or we could all pay 10 cents more for a cup of truly crappy coffee.......seeing as the collective we voted to raise the minimum wage.

Are you proposing a government department to control coffee pricing, too?

Offline FJAG

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2018, 23:52:14 »
Or we could all pay 10 cents more for a cup of truly crappy coffee.......seeing as the collective we voted to raise the minimum wage.

The "collective we" didn't vote for this. For those who voted Liberal, the Liberal platform in 2014 was to raise the minimum wage to $11.00 and then tie it to inflation.

http://strategycorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Ontario-Liberal-2014-Platform.pdf

Since the 2014 election the increases took it to $11.40 for 2017 and then jumped to $14.00 this January. That's a 22.8% increase and greatly exceeds the rate of inflation. It's an election ploy, plain and simple.

By the way they also pledged to balance the budget by 2017/18 but only did that through a one-time Hydro One asset sale worth CA$3 Billion. The picture is bleak for the future.

http://torontosun.com/2017/06/01/ontarios-budget-a-house-of-cards/wcm/3f3290f7-4cdc-4c4a-8621-d19974b94f9d

Agree with you as to quality of coffee - - but I truly love the apple fritters.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 00:32:50 by FJAG »
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2018, 00:01:58 »
From what I hear, the free prescriptions are not covering much.

I'm not a pharmacist, but this may help,

What medications are covered

OHIP+ completely covers the cost of more than 4,400 drug products that are currently available through the Ontario Drug Benefit program, including:
•antibiotics to treat infections
•inhalers for asthma
•various insulins, oral diabetic medications and diabetes test strips
•epinephrine auto-injectors (e.g. EPIPENs®)
•drugs to treat arthritis, epilepsy and other chronic conditions
•medications to treat mental health conditions (e.g. antidepressants)
•attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) drugs
•drugs to treat some childhood cancers and other rare conditions

Check medication coverage
Find out if your medication is covered through the Ontario Drug Benefit program, including OHIP+.
Type a medication name, ingredient or DIN
https://www.ontario.ca/page/check-medication-coverage/

The key, as usual, is Toronto and area (plus Ottawa) where all her strength is centred and which usually tosses the election to the Liberals.

The provincial Legislature passed the City of Toronto Act in 2006 in a 58-20 vote, with Liberals and New Democrats supporting it and Progressive Conservatives opposing it.

Prior to 2006, the mayor had to go to Queen's Park to ask for permission to install a speed bump.

Voters remember the party that opposed it at election time. Those who do not remember are reminded.

Province of Toronto? Where's the door!?  :)

I also expect the public service unions will come out hard for her again because they just get one freebie after another.

Our union has always supported the politicians we believe will improve our lives and livelihoods.

I expect most people vote the same way.

"they just get one freebie after another" reminds me of the "I pay your salary" types we used to run into on jobs.


 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 00:42:12 by mariomike »

Online Remius

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2018, 08:32:05 »
"they just get one freebie after another" reminds me of the "I pay your salary" types we used to run into on jobs.

Under any other government I might agree with you.  Wynne has bought the unions though this time around for the election.  Even the unions acknowledge it.  7.5% increase and no conditions.  That's a freebie.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2018, 10:00:25 »
Wynne has bought the unions though this time around for the election. 

I retired nine years ago, but our union respected its members’ right to vote for whomever they chose.

Members were only asked to respect the union's right to endorse candidates, regardless of party, who demonstrated their support for our members and the emergency services.

After that, our union believed that every member had an absolute right to vote for the candidate that he or she feels best represented and embraced that individual’s views and political philosophy. No one, including our union, had a right to tell you how to vote.



Online Remius

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2018, 10:21:37 »
I retired nine years ago, but our union respected its members’ right to vote for whomever they chose.

Members were only asked to respect the union's right to endorse candidates, regardless of party, who demonstrated their support for our members and the emergency services.

After that, our union believed that every member had an absolute right to vote for the candidate that he or she feels best represented and embraced that individual’s views and political philosophy. No one, including our union, had a right to tell you how to vote.

Ok, I'll rephrase.  She gave the unions a freebie in an attempt to buy their vote.   I'm not questioning how the membership chooses to vote or even if the unions tell its membership how to vote.  I am however stating that Wynne is handing out freebies to win votes. 
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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2018, 12:35:30 »
I believe the term is extracting your money to purchase votes.
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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2018, 13:45:44 »
Nothing more than class warfare. Do you think it's any accident that a Joyce owned franchise was singled out for condemnation?
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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2018, 14:37:09 »
I retired nine years ago, but our union respected its members’ right to vote for whomever they chose.

Members were only asked to respect the union's right to endorse candidates, regardless of party, who demonstrated their support for our members and the emergency services.

After that, our union believed that every member had an absolute right to vote for the candidate that he or she feels best represented and embraced that individual’s views and political philosophy. No one, including our union, had a right to tell you how to vote.

That's only because the union can't go into the voting booth with you to supervise how you vote. Take a look, however, at the ad campaigns that nurses and teachers and others run at the time of the elections. They are massively against the Conservative Party and usually much more negative than the Liberals' own advertising.

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