Author Topic: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program  (Read 5687 times)

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Offline Dimsum

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Anyone want a posting to Geilenkirchen, Germany?    :nod:

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February 14, 2018, Brussels, Belgium — National Defence / Canadian Armed Forces

The Government is committed to both the security and safety of Canadians and the protection of their rights and freedoms. Canada is playing a strong and constructive role in the world by making concrete contributions to international peace and security – including at the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

NATO is a cornerstone of Canada’s international security policy and today the Government announced its intention to rejoin to the Alliance’s Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) program.

Programs such as AWACS, and the joint intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance it provides, are increasingly relevant in today’s security environment.  In response to the challenges posed by that environment, NATO has significantly increased the use of its AWACS operations, including in areas like Central and Eastern Europe where Canada is leading a multinational NATO battlegroup based in Latvia.

Canada decided to withdraw from the AWACS program in 2011 following the Department of National Defence’s 2010 Strategic Review.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2018/02/canada_rejoins_natoairbornewarningandcontrolsystemprogram.html
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline kev994

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 18:17:34 »
Nope, it comes with a 3 year restricted release when you return.

Offline Ditch

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 20:36:27 »
I’m in....
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 21:11:38 »
Nope, it comes with a 3 year restricted release when you return.

Ah, only if you're a Pilot or AEC   :nod:

(There are still Navs on those planes, right?)
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 21:36:38 »
Ditch, do you have any experience with AWAC's? :nod:
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 10:15:05 »
Once upon a time there were 2 x Sgt's position (non-flying ones) for my trade there...fingers crossed.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 10:18:22 »
I heard it was cash only to the mission for now. In the months to come, we may recognize this initial movement as the beginning of a clumsy and crass bid for a key position in NATO...time will tell.

:2c:

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G2G

Offline whiskey601

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 11:05:22 »
So spending cash on a project to support the % GDP commitment (if there was such a commitment).

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 13:26:34 »
There you guys go, throwing rocks at our house of dreams (OUTCAN!!).   :(

 ;D
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 17:12:48 »
There you guys go, throwing rocks at our house of dreams (OUTCAN!!).   :(

 ;D

Haven’t you been OUTCAN for a bit, EITS? ;D

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2018, 05:01:00 »
There you guys go, throwing rocks at our house of dreams (OUTCAN!!).   :(

 ;D

Come on EITS!

We have dry AES Ops in Poland, Sig and a new OUTCAN posting to Creech AFB..

Try being a wettie, our options are crap!

I’m glad Canada is getting back in the AWACS game.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 05:53:18 by Dolphin_Hunter »

Offline Ditch

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 10:58:10 »
What’s the OUTCAN to Creech all about?   Vegas living!
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 11:59:52 »
What’s the OUTCAN to Creech all about?   Vegas living!
e

We are sending a couple people (1 x pilot, 1 x AESOp, I think) to gain some more RPA experience.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 14:11:43 »
Haven’t you been OUTCAN for a bit, EITS? ;D

I've spent some time away from my postal code the past several years for sure, but not a good stable go like Gk would be...I had...limited off-duty 'travel options' on most of my time away of late.   8)
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 14:15:07 »
Come on EITS!

We have dry AES Ops in Poland, Sig and a new OUTCAN posting to Creech AFB..

Try being a wettie, our options are crap!

I’m glad Canada is getting back in the AWACS game.

1 x WO Poland
2 x Sig spots (not interested in that one at all)

What is this new Creech one?  I didn't hear about this...I'm going to take a bet its a WO position and someone coming out of Sig will go to it?

I'll pass on the ASO option, and have dodged it a few times...I think I am reasonably safe to stay doing what I'm doing, thankfully and am not moving this APS.  That also means I am likely not going to put my name in the hat for Creech... :not-again:
Pilot, RADAR...turn right, heading...3-6-5...

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 14:34:28 »
1 x WO Poland
2 x Sig spots (not interested in that one at all)

What is this new Creech one?  I didn't hear about this...I'm going to take a bet its a WO position and someone coming out of Sig will go to it?

I'll pass on the ASO option, and have dodged it a few times...I think I am reasonably safe to stay doing what I'm doing, thankfully and am not moving this APS.  That also means I am likely not going to put my name in the hat for Creech... :not-again:

The guy going to Creech is currently a Sgt. Don't know if a promotion is in the works, or not.

Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 14:52:21 »
The Creech one is a Sgt position. We sent up a name from the school. I hope he gets it. I also heard we might get one more position over there.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 15:23:32 »
Jesus...I just heard about this one today on here and the name has already been pretty much decided???  When did this pos'n get announced (quietly, I am assuming as I didn't hear about it).  I was away in Nov/Dec *but* news like that usually travels fast.  I didn't hear a whisper about it.

 :orly:
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 19:50:51 »
The Creech one is a Sgt position. We sent up a name from the school. I hope he gets it. I also heard we might get one more position over there.

You are probably the only unit to send a name up.

Funny how the school seems to be sending folks first to Sig and now Creech.   🤔


Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 20:01:25 »
You are probably the only unit to send a name up.

Funny how the school seems to be sending folks first to Sig and now Creech.   🤔

The Sgt's I know at my Sqn didn't even frackin' know about it until last Friday...I heard about it on here.   ::)
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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2018, 20:29:24 »
Ah!  :rofl:

We need incentives to attract potential instructors.
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2018, 00:05:59 »
You are probably the only unit to send a name up.

Funny how the school seems to be sending folks first to Sig and now Creech.   🤔

The name I heard was not from the School. Just sayin...

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2018, 06:12:36 »
The name I heard was not from the School. Just sayin...

Good to know.  It is extremely disappointing and demotivating when it comes to news like this. 

Does anyone know if there is an appetite to get Canadian aircrew (not this year) back in the NATO AWACS?  Or are we just going to throw $$$ at the program.   

Was there a posting for an ACSO within the NATO AWAC community?   Asking for a friend.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 06:29:16 by Dolphin_Hunter »

Offline Baz

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2018, 08:24:41 »
Good to know.  It is extremely disappointing and demotivating when it comes to news like this. 

Does anyone know if there is an appetite to get Canadian aircrew (not this year) back in the NATO AWACS?  Or are we just going to throw $$$ at the program.   

Was there a posting for an ACSO within the NATO AWAC community?   Asking for a friend.

I know there was at least one ACSO only Maj position, and one LCol that I *think* was ACSO only; they were both flying positions.  I'm pretty sure there were more.

However, it is unlikely that the ACSO position's will return, even if aircrew are being sent at some point.  The NATO AWACS cockpit is being transitioned to glass, and the navigator being removed from the aircraft, so ACSOs won't be required in the force.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2018, 11:04:51 »
When I was in HQ AFCENT (Brunssum, NL) in the 1980s I met a lot of the Canadian in Geilenkirchen:* there were lots of flying jobs and also a large support contingent, including a couple of C&E Branch colonels and a few AERE and Log officers in the NATO AWACS organization.

_____
* It was only 10 miles away
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2018, 12:07:58 »
However, it is unlikely that the ACSO position's will return, even if aircrew are being sent at some point.  The NATO AWACS cockpit is being transitioned to glass, and the navigator being removed from the aircraft, so ACSOs won't be required in the force.

I guess if that's the case, then the Canadian ACSO positions in Elmendorf, AK and Tinker, OK will be gone soon too  :'(
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline AirDet

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2018, 12:50:40 »
You are probably the only unit to send a name up.

Funny how the school seems to be sending folks first to Sig and now Creech.   🤔

Thant doesn't surprise me. The SCWO here is really big on getting people as much experience as possible. He's all about career progression. It's nice to see.
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Offline Baz

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2018, 13:57:30 »
I guess if that's the case, then the Canadian ACSO positions in Elmendorf, AK and Tinker, OK will be gone soon too  :'(

I'm not sure about that... NATO AWACS and US AWACS are different and are having different upgrade paths.  I don't know if the US is removing the nav or not.

My info comes from when I was NATO AGS... at the time AGS belonged to NAEW&C Force Command which was (is) co-located with SHAPE at Mons, Belgium; NAEW&C FC was also the parent command of the Force in GK.  AGS moved out of NAEW&C FC while I was there; I'm not sure who the belong to now.

If you would like to know why AGS belonged to NAEW&C at the time...


Edited to add:

It looks like both the US and NATO AWACS are getting the same upgrade and removing the nav.  Various sources say it, but the clearest I quickly found was:
Quote
As the name DRAGON (Diminishing Manufacturing Sources Replacement of Avionics for Global Operations and Navigation) suggests, one of the problems the AWACS fleets are having is finding parts for their old avionics. Both the USA (Block 40-45) and NATO (Mid-Term Modernisation) have implemented billion-dollar upgrade programs for radar and mission systems over the last decade, but that doesn’t mean much if you can’t fly the plane. New ICAO standards as of 2015 add another layer of urgency, in order to keep the fleet flying within international civil airspace.
Quote
The upgrade will reduce the flight deck crew from 4 people to 3, with the removal of the previous navigator position.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/enter-the-dragon-nato-usa-upgrading-e-3-awacs-cockpits-07428/

As the article implies, my understanding is that the back end (radar and computer) upgrades were different.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 14:11:47 by Baz »

Offline Ditch

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2018, 08:46:47 »
USAF isn’t getting rid of Navigator for quite some time. 
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2018, 10:11:06 »
USAF isn’t getting rid of Navigator for quite some time.
The spot on the AWACS, or the trade itself?
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2018, 10:12:10 »
USAF isn’t getting rid of Navigator for quite some time.

Well, somebody has to get the coffee...
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Offline Ditch

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Re: Canada rejoins NATO Airborne Warning and Control System program
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2018, 16:04:52 »
The spot on the AWACS, or the trade itself?
Sorry - that reply of mine was incomplete.

The Navigator role on the E-3G is not being phased out as quickly as the NATO fleets.  DRAGON mod is slow and priority is for NATO vice USAF upgrades.

Per Ardua Ad Astra