Author Topic: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....  (Read 2908 times)

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Offline Chris Pook

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German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« on: February 19, 2018, 15:40:46 »
Quote
Germany's Bundeswehr 'lacks basic equipment' for NATO mission
The German army reportedly lacks the tents, winter clothes and other essential equipment needed for its deployment in a NATO rapid reaction force. The German defense ministry pledged that the items would be procured.

German soldiers do not have enough protective vests, winter clothing and tents to head NATO's 'spearhead force,' the newspaper Rheinische Post reported on Monday, citing a paper presented to the Defense Ministry.

http://www.dw.com/en/germanys-bundeswehr-lacks-basic-equipment-for-nato-mission/a-42638910
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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 15:48:33 »
Seems to me they have a tradition of just that.  :waiting:

Offline Dimsum

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 16:27:47 »
Seems to me they have a tradition of just that.  :waiting:

Sounds like storytime  :nod:
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 16:32:58 »
Sounds like storytime  :nod:

Try invading the Soviet Union and not supplying the troops with winter kit.

Offline recceguy

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 16:37:51 »
All I'm really interested in is how long it takes and if the gear is satisfactory.

They have identified the problem. Now let's see how long before it's on issue to them.

Bet it won't take 15 years and a dozen trials everytime someone gets posted in with a new idea.

We've known for a good two years that we have no mukluks, tents and other arctic kit. Bet we haven't even ordered replacements yet.
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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 17:11:41 »
Canada can't even screw the pooch properly, as the pooch died 15 years ago and we are still pretending. The next war will be won by the country with the least "fu*ked up" procurement system.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 17:24:16 »
Canada can't even screw the pooch properly, as the pooch died 15 years ago and we are still pretending.

So...Canada is a necrophiliac?   :whistle:
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 18:37:35 »
In the ante integration Canadian Army the only troops that were issued winter kit and regularly exercised in cold weather were the three Defence of Canada Force infantry battalions. The rest of us had access to a pool of winter equipment to conduct winter indoctrination, although Western Canadian units seemed to do a bit better. And I guess that included the RCHA detachment deployed in the Roger's Pass to carry out avalanche control fire missions.

Most of the field force did not have winter exercises, but might do a bit of trips to the ranges and the like. Our focus was on Germany, and that country might have been wet and miserable in the winter, but snow was rare. After all, the generation that was running the army had spent the winter of 1944-1945 there in battledress and greatcoats.

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 21:14:20 »
Try invading the Soviet Union and not supplying the troops with winter kit.

In fairness the original plan for Operation Barbarossa called for an April start date with Moscow and Russia's army and primary industrial centers secured in September. As it was, for various reason the kickoff was delayed until late June and the phase for taking Moscow didn't actually start until end September. Add to that a particularly wet October that turned roads and fields to quagmire and slowed the advance dramatically and you can see where things went off the rails. At this point there was no real option to hold off for winter the upcoming winter and to pause. Germany might have been able to produce large amounts of winter clothing but had no chance to make it's mechanized equipment capable of efficient cold weather operations. The only logical course was to push on, keep the Russians off balance and wreak maximum damage on them before winter came.

The problem wasn't so much in the plan. It called for an achievable victory before winter came. The problem was once the initial attack was delayed, the high command took a calculated risk that it would still achieve success before winter set in. By 2 Dec the lead elements were 24 km from Moscow. That's when the first storms struck. The high command had gambled and lost. In his grave, Napoleon smiled.

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Offline recceguy

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 21:26:14 »
In the ante integration Canadian Army the only troops that were issued winter kit and regularly exercised in cold weather were the three Defence of Canada Force infantry battalions. The rest of us had access to a pool of winter equipment to conduct winter indoctrination, although Western Canadian units seemed to do a bit better. And I guess that included the RCHA detachment deployed in the Roger's Pass to carry out avalanche control fire missions.

Most of the field force did not have winter exercises, but might do a bit of trips to the ranges and the like. Our focus was on Germany, and that country might have been wet and miserable in the winter, but snow was rare. After all, the generation that was running the army had spent the winter of 1944-1945 there in battledress and greatcoats.

By the early 70s, I  think every cbt arms unit, in Canada, was issued full winter kit. I'm sure, everyone in
Pet had full winter kit, at least field units anyway.
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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 21:26:24 »
In the ante integration Canadian Army the only troops that were issued winter kit and regularly exercised in cold weather were the three Defence of Canada Force infantry battalions. The rest of us had access to a pool of winter equipment to conduct winter indoctrination, although Western Canadian units seemed to do a bit better. And I guess that included the RCHA detachment deployed in the Roger's Pass to carry out avalanche control fire missions.

Most of the field force did not have winter exercises, but might do a bit of trips to the ranges and the like. Our focus was on Germany, and that country might have been wet and miserable in the winter, but snow was rare. After all, the generation that was running the army had spent the winter of 1944-1945 there in battledress and greatcoats.

During my years with 2 and 3 RCHA (1970 to 1984) we had a full complement of winter gear, from personal gear to tent group stores and annual winter exercises. In 2 RCHA in particular, every February was a 3 to 4 week winter exercise (usually without vehicles with all moves being by helicopter)

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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 22:03:08 »
What a difference ten years made. And I mean that sincerely.

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2018, 23:51:01 »
What a difference ten years made. And I mean that sincerely.

Actually, that reminds me of my first time at Shilo. I was a young, gunner when 7th Toronto was flown to Shilo in early December of 66 to fire the Challenge Cup competition. It was bloody cold out (well below freezing) with a skiff of snow on the ground. Our uniform was battle dress and our winter gear was a sheepskin jacket. No mukluks, no mitts, no ear muffs/hats, just ammo boots, black leather gloves and berets. The Germans were better equipped in Russia.

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 00:38:51 »
What a difference ten years made. And I mean that sincerely.

With the advent of Goretex etc it’s even better.
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Offline recceguy

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2018, 03:41:43 »
With the advent of Goretex etc it’s even better.

Xacly Jim. Our 70-80's era stuff is today's battledress.
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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 22:35:16 »
Xacly Jim. Our 70-80's era stuff is today's battledress.

I do like today's Gortex etc (or at least the stuff they gave me before I retired in 09) but on the other hand I spent a lot of time in the snow with our 70s/80s kit. Worst job in the winter is in an OP where you hardly move around at all and just sit in a snowbank/slit trench for hours on end. My standard dress was mukluks, AFV winter crew suit overall pants, combat shirt, sweater, parka (the good one with the detachable hood) mitts, combat scarf, and toque. I would stay toasty warm for hours. When I had to walk with the grunts I usually had to vent a lot to keep from overheating. To the best of my knowledge, winters in Shilo and Pet are a heck of a lot colder than Moscow.

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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 23:27:26 »
Broomhandles.....Too bad my Grandad wasn't still around.  The Look, Dook and Vanish could show them how to handle a broomhandle.  He and his mates saw off Hitler with them.

Quote
Reliant on UK? Armed with BROOM HANDLES German army too DECREPIT for battle, SLAMS report

GERMANY’s armed forces are suffering from such severe shortages of weapons that it cannot meet its Nato commitments and its soldiers are forced to carry out drills with broom handles, it has been revealed.

By MATT DRAKE
PUBLISHED: 01:04, Wed, Feb 21, 2018 | UPDATED: 01:05, Wed, Feb 21, 2018
   
Germany is supposed to take over the Nato’s Very High Readiness Joint Task Force (VJTF)

Hans-Peter Bartels, the German parliamentary commissioner for the armed forces, said the German army is “not equipped to meet the tasks before it” and its operational readiness is “dangerously low” to take over a frontline Nato task force next year and must be “questioned”.

Germany is supposed to take over the Nato’s Very High Readiness Joint Task Force (VJTF), a key unit tasked with deterring Russian aggression in Europe.

But in a damning report presented by Mr Bartels, it shows how decrepit the German military is which comes only three years after a scandal over military shortages which saw German troops forced to use broomsticks instead of guns on a Nato training exercise.

Mr Bartels warned: “The German contribution to the VJTF must remain in question.”

But despite Germany being Europe’s biggest economy, it is lagging far behind with only spending 1.13 per cent of its GDP on defence last year.

He added: "Despite Government promises to find more cash, tasks for which there are supposed to be additional people and equipment in future are already upon us, soldiers already have to accomplish them today as best they can, using whatever is to hand."

The report has revealed that only 95 of the German army’s 244 Leopard main battle tanks can be used because of maintenance issues.

Also, none of the Luftwaffe’s 14 A400M transport aircraft were airworthy on several occasions last year.

None of the Navy’s six submarines were operational at the end of last year and only nine of 15 frigates are in service.

The report comes a day after it was leaked that German units do not have sufficient winter clothing, protective gear or tents to fulfil their commitments to the VJTF.

Angela Merkel is blamed in the report for setting the defence budget €38.5bn (£34bn) is too low.

President Donald Trump has demanded Nato European members contribute more to the cost of their defence and raise military spending to meet the target of two per cent of GDP.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s new coalition deal promises to boost spending to €42.2billion by 2021, but that would only account for 1.15 per cent of projected GDP.

German army Nato UK EU Europe Angela Merkel Hans-Peter Bartels Donald Trump news latestGETTY

Hans-Peter Bartels said the German army is 'not equipped to meet the tasks before it'
But Mr Bartels, who is a former MP appointed by the German parliament to represent the interests of the military, said Mrs Merkel’s previous pledges to address shortages have not happened.

He said: “The pledged turnaround in personnel, equipment and financing is to be welcomed, but pledges alone do not make anything better.

“What I missed in the coalition agreement were concrete proposals on how the planned increase from 185,000 troops to 200,000 is to be financed.”

Germany’s post-war constitution was drafted to prevent any repeat of the abuses by the Nazis which means the armed forces are directly commanded by Parliament.

The report is seen as an attack on current defence minister Ursula von der Leyen

The report is seen as an attack on current defence minister Ursula von der Leyen who is unpopular with troops.

A series of shortage scandals have plagued her time at the defence ministry.

Tobias Lindner, a defence and budget expert for the opposition Greens, said: “The Bundeswehr’s problems aren’t new, but it is shocking that nearly nothing has improved after four years of Ursula von der Leyen serving as defence minister.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/921716/German-army-UK-Nato-EU-Europe-Angela-Merkel-Hans-Peter-Bartels-Donald-Trump-news-latest
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 06:38:55 »
What a difference ten years made. And I mean that sincerely.

Just to back up what OS has said ... until the mid 1960s our "combat" uniform was black coverall, boots and putties and 37 pattern web gear. Our Army fought WWII in battle dress but we had turned that into a neat, badge covered, well pressed garrison uniform. We had bush dress ~ very useful, actually, for summer wear, but also pressed and starched. In Petawawa circa 1962 "garrison dress" was bush trousers or, in cold weather battle dress trousers, shirt, sweater and a jump smock or parka shell (if you could scrounge one) or a greatcoat ~ what was allowed varied with CSMs. Almost everyone had the original "fisherman's vest" (a US Army field jacket with the sleeves cut off) and a second high neck sweater with pockets sewn on it ~ many NCO's wives in the MQs ran little home tailoring businesses making us a bit more comfortable. Most of our NCOs were Korea vets and they brought a "make do" perspective to day-to-day soldiering.

Despite their reputations for "chickenshit" both The RCR and the Canadian Guards were quite sane about garrison and field dress. Even on The Guards Junior NCO course we were told to bring our "normal" field kit, including our "second" set of web gear (which many of us had) and field boots for exercises. (The insteps of my (leather soled) garrison boots were highly polished every night on that course ... and my shoe polish tin and brass polish can were scraped (with a sewing needle) down to bare metal and they glistened!

In the mid 1960s we began to get and then got nearly flooded with new, and in many cases quite good, kit ... what a difference a decade made!
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Offline pbi

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 07:16:06 »
Personally, I was very happy to see the change from our grab-bag collection of field clothing to the Clothe the Soldier line of kit. Our old cold weather stuff was designed for cold and dry such as in inland Arctic areas, not the cold and wet you encounter in far more of the world including Canada. As FJAG notes, lying in an OP or ambush could get very soggy and frozen.

As for the combat coat, the "boxing gloves" and the early rainsuits...the less said the better.

When I was working alongside the US folks in Afghanistan in 04/05, my impression was that our line of  field clothing was better than what they had, and as far as I could see far better than the other Coalition nations.
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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2018, 22:58:54 »
Personally, I was very happy to see the change from our grab-bag collection of field clothing to the Clothe the Soldier line of kit. Our old cold weather stuff was designed for cold and dry such as in inland Arctic areas, not the cold and wet you encounter in far more of the world including Canada. As FJAG notes, lying in an OP or ambush could get very soggy and frozen.

As for the combat coat, the "boxing gloves" and the early rainsuits...the less said the better.

When I was working alongside the US folks in Afghanistan in 04/05, my impression was that our line of  field clothing was better than what they had, and as far as I could see far better than the other Coalition nations.

You left out heavyweight combat pants. When it came time to trade up to CADPAT, my old heavyweight combat pants were as pristine as the day they were issued to me never having been worn once.  ;D

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 23:38:14 »
In September 1964 I had just been appointed the Intelligence Officer of 1 RCHA. (It was not as much an intelligence officer as what we now call Operations office, but that's a distraction.) Sunray stuck his head in my office and said something like let's go to the QM Stores.

There we were the first people to be issued combat, like one pair of boots, one heavy set of pants, two shirts and a jacket. I still wonder if Kurt Meyer wrote the specs for the ants when he was our guest in a Canadian slammer.

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2018, 01:04:30 »
In September 1964 I had just been appointed the Intelligence Officer of 1 RCHA. (It was not as much an intelligence officer as what we now call Operations office, but that's a distraction.) Sunray stuck his head in my office and said something like let's go to the QM Stores.

There we were the first people to be issued combat, like one pair of boots, one heavy set of pants, two shirts and a jacket. I still wonder if Kurt Meyer wrote the specs for the ants when he was our guest in a Canadian slammer.

"ants"?

 ???
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 09:22:31 »
Well, FJAG, you gotta put something in those pants. Why not ants?  ;D

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Re: German Army - No tents, no vests, no mukluks....
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2018, 10:50:33 »
" Specs for the ants..."

I think he means Meyer was designing eyeglasses for his parent's female siblings. You gotta do something to pass the time when you're a bored Nazi war criminal, right?
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