Author Topic: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions  (Read 250814 times)

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Offline hoser

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2004, 13:06:18 »
Hmm, I never realized that my interview was any different from what the NCM applicants had to go through.  If it was two hours long, it was just barely so, and it certainly didn't seem that long.  I applied for Reg Force, but I can't imagine that the interview process is much different from the Reserves.

As for your questions (just to back up what Northern Touch said):

I had a Captain interview me.  The other MCC in the office was I believe a Naval Lt.  It could be different elsewhere, but thats what Saskatoon has.

Bring past work?  Advisable, I don't know.  Nothing that I can think of during the interview would've been an appropriate time for me to whip out anything to show the guy.  It certainly can't hurt if you want to bring it, but its not necessary. 

As for expecting  knowledge of the units in the brigade, I'd say probably  not.  For the reserves, I can imagine they want you to have knowledge of your unit, and any other knowledge of the brigade might be beneficial.  But the interview is not intended to be a quiz or a test.  They ask you questions about yourself to make sure you're suitable,  and they ask questions about the CF  to make sure you know what you're getting into.

Either way, its probably the least stressful job interview I've ever had.

Offline Casing

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2004, 17:21:00 »
My DEO RegF interview lasted almost 2 hours and 45 minutes. I interviewed with one officer. A Captain -- Air Navigator.

Make sure you fill our your interview prep form. You don't show it to the interviewer, but it is very good for you to prepare yourself (ie: gets you thinking about some of the things they'll be asking). If you have any certificates or such of appreciation or achievement bring them along, unless you have already included them in the application that you submitted.   If you have any excellent annual evaluations from work, bring those too--but only if they are something that you would be proud to show. Also, think about how you would lead teams in different situtations.   You'll probably get situational questions like that.

Make sure you know at least the basics about the CF in general, the unit you are joining, and the occupation you are applying for (especially!).  Know what training you'll be doing, where, and how long.  Know what an officer's general responsibilities are (as opposed to what an NCM's general responsibilities are).

Other than that, do not try to bluff your way through anything.   If you don't know the answer to something that is asked, just say so. BS won't be approved of. Just be natural and honest.   They want a good impression of your character, not just how much knowledge you can spew out.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2004, 17:23:37 by Casing »

Offline Tyrnagog

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2004, 21:55:49 »
Not much more that I can add.  Be honest and forthright.  They respect that.  Give honest opinions when asked, and do not lie, under any circumstances.  It may help to think up some past experiences, such as times when you showed leadership, times you had to deal with a difficult person, etc.  Even if they don't ask you those questions, it's nice to have in your back pocket.  My first interiew was with a captain.  my follow-up interview (a year later) was with a Naval Lt. 

It was a very professional interview, which is what you should remember.  Applying as an officer, you need to show them that you are a professional in all aspects of your life.  They are looking as much for the people as they are the qualifications.
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Offline Casing

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2004, 00:51:05 »
Your point 1 is specific for NCM positions.  For DEO, the only time "when you applied" becomes a factor is if you applied in time for the selection board!  Other than that, good question and I would like to know also.

Offline Tyrnagog

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2004, 01:17:12 »
IIRC...

All applicants are given a score based on the selection criteria (including interview, cfat, relevant experience, etc.)  Then, they sort all potential applicants based on their score, and  pull from the top of that score and work down until all positions are filled.  the remainder, in the order they were scored, are the wait list.

I believe this was how the Lt. (N) explained it to me during my re-interview...
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Offline kastanis

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2004, 20:23:11 »
Hello,

I am a recent university graduate who has decided to apply for a position in the CF.  I submitted my complete application May 26, and my three occupational choices were PLT, AERE and CELE, in that order.  Obviously my degree is an engineering degree, but I had always wanted to fly aeroplanes growing up, so I though I would give it a shot.  Of course I will still be very happy with a position as an engineering officer.

I wrote the CFAT on July 6, and did my fitness test on July 14.  The fitness examiner told me I would be contacted in the next week regarding my results.  The next steps, I understand, are the medical and interview.  Now I have some questions which I am hoping that some members here might be able to help me with.  FIrst of all, I understand that the DEO selection boards meet twice a year, in the spring and in the fall.  Given the date that I applied, and the rate at which my application seems to be going, what are my chances of being considered for the fall DEO selection?  The second question I have is about the times of the year that the IAP/BOTP is run.  I understand that there are courses beginning in September.  I am sure I will not be starting then, but when is the next round, January?

I am eager to begin a career in the forces, and uncertainty makes me even more eager.  At present my life is on hold pending this application.  I have be applying for other jobs in the meantime, but I have been honest with employers about my pending CF application, and no one is interested in someone who may well be "taking off for the army".  So I have gotten myself a job in a warehouse to keep busy, but understandably that is not what I had envisioned myself doing after having graduated with a B.A.Sc. in mechanical engineering.  Any help or advice that anyone may be able to give will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2004, 20:47:51 »
kastanis,

Welcome to the boards, and to what may (or may not) be a long and frustrating wait for the system to catch up to you.

If you meet the requirements for pilot training your selection for that MOC is a possibility, but how great a chance is hard to judge. Pilot training is a very slow process with current through-put and some officers wait years in that training system before they get their flight qualifications. Any existing backlog in the system may work against your chances of selection for pilot any time soon.

I'd say your chances of selection for AERE or CELE are better than for pilot. Whether or not you may be picked up from this fall's boards depends on a number of factors that cannot be readily estimated. As a DEO candidate, the system will be looking to enrol you in order to fill a gap in a training system which is currently based in large part on RMC. Initial forecasts look 4-5 years out and identify the minimum numbers that must start RMC each fall to fill future projected vacancies in each classification. But if attrition within training (academic or military) and greater than predicted losses of more senior personnel create unforecasted shortfalls, then sources like DEO board selections will be used to fill the gaps. Chances at any such board selection will depend on the number and quality of applicants, the number of positions being filled, and the ability of the training system to absorb the numbers desired by the trade.

As for the frequency of basic officer training courses, they start every other month or so at St Jean. But keep in mind that summer courses are dedicated to training those officer candidate between university years, and other courses may have priority given to certain trades in order to feed later courses that start right after them.

All that being said, you could be picked up this fall, or may have to wait until next spring. Don't start packing yet, use the time to continue working. I would also suggest you use it as an opportunity to start researching your new vocation as a military officer. And be patient.

Good luck.

koach

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2004, 21:07:36 »
The next pilot board will be this fall but before your name is submitted, you must complete the Air Crew Selection course.  These courses run several times per month but you will only attend this course after all of your processing is completed and your medical file is back from Borden.  By what you have stated, you have time to complete the above actions prior to the board.  I do recommend that once you receive the call regarding your PT test results that you book your medical right away because the medical portion takes the longest.

Good luck with your application and I hope you get what you want.


Offline Inch

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2004, 21:24:12 »
kastanis,

I'm a pilot, got my wings on Apr 2nd and am currently waiting for the Sea King OTU.  The other guys have answered your questions so if you have any questions specifically about the pilot training, I'm very recent in that aspect.  I bypassed Aircrew selection and primary flying training (PFT) so I'm not much help there, but Moose Jaw and Helo school I know quite well.

The backlog in Plt training has worked it's way through so that shouldn't be a factor when it comes to your selection board.

Cheers
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Offline Casing

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2004, 23:52:46 »
Since the previous replies dealt mainly with your interest in pilot, I'll tell you my impressions for the other two occupations you applied for.   I have recent experience in the application process.   I applied under the DEO plan for AERE, CELE, and Sig O, in that order.   Last month I received offers for AERE and Sig O and accepted AERE.   I start IAP in mid-September.

Now, for AERE or CELE you can basically rule out getting in for this September's IAP/BOTP courses.   This is because the DEO application deadline was April 26th, of which you obviously missed.   They won't make any exceptions for you.   So it looks like your application (barring any surprises) will be submitted for the selection boards that will be held in October or November.   If you are offered a position you will likely start IAP/BOTP in mid to late January.   If you have additional questions on this aspect, feel free to post here or send me an IM.

As for your current situation of putting your life on hold while your CF application is processing.   I would recommend to you to seek a position suitable for your education and career aspirations.   Of course, to do this you should not mention to potential employers that you have a CF application in process and might leave.   This could be considered unethical, but I believe that in this day and age and lack of job security this practice is not unethical.   There is also the possibility that you might not be leaving for the CF (read on!).

You should seek a suitable position for a number of reasons.   First, and most unappealing, is that you need to realize there is a possibility that you will not be offered a position in the CF.   This does not mean the end of the road for you, however.   You can keep your file open and submit your application for the very next selection board.   By having a job in which you are gaining engineering experience you make yourself more appealing to the selection committee and therefore more competitive, not to mention getting your career started in the event that the CF doesn't work out. That is good for both a second reason and a third reason.   A fourth reason is money, plain and simple.   You would probably earn more working as an engineer than you do working in a warehouse.   I know, money isn't everything, but if you have student loans or other debts it'll certainly benefit you to have a higher income.

I hope the pilot selection works out for you and you do find yourself on IAP in a couple of months.   But if not, then follow the previous advice and learn all you can about AERE and CELE.   I believe that this aspect really helped me in my application.

Good luck!

RAM KRISHNA

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2004, 14:39:53 »
I applied for AERE and CELE and SIGS around Feb 2004 and cfrc going to send the file to the board next month. ( whoohoo)

1) is there anyone out there who applied for these jobs and waiting for the Oct- Nov board meeting?
2) one of my senior at university applied last year but missed the may board   meeting and
     does the board consider what date a person initiate the application for the job ? ( any board member here)
3) I read some of the postings and it looks CELE and AERE are the toughest one to get in why?
     competition? or not enough openings in the airforce?

thanks ppl

Offline DrSize

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2004, 15:55:02 »
Well I can somewhat answer your questions....I love DEO questions haha and there are plenty of them floating around because no one REALLY knows on here..........or if they do, they do not give direct answers to questions it is mostly speculation

1.  I am in the process of applying for Logisitics, Sigs, and Infantry in that order..I am optimistic my file will be complete and will make it in time for the fall board.....so not sure about AERE and CELE but the majority on the boards seem to be going for the 3 you are going for, so from that percentage it would be a good guess that a large percentage of the DEO applicants are going for those positions.

2.  The date the person initiates the application has absoutely no bearing whatsoever on the decision...it just comes down to whether or not the file is complete in time for that board to make the decision, they meet twice a year.

3.  I am not sure so this is strictly speculation but there is a very handesome signing bonus for those positions....around 40k tax free.  This definetly increases the number of applications, resulting in better applicants, that leads to intense competition for these positions....I think there are usually about 10-15 openings for each position....that is not many at all if you really think about it.  Considering there are 10 provinces in Canada and 3 territories that is not many at all...........and each province has at least 2 good univerisities and in some cases like Ontario over 10 good reputable universities........I would love to see the stats on how many DEO applicants apply to each officer position...it could be 10, 20, 50, 200...........


Offline Casing

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2004, 18:59:12 »
Actually, the $40K recruitment allowance for the engineering occupations is taxable.

I applied for AERE, CELE, and Sigs O (in that order) and made the last selection board.   When I got offers for AERE and Sigs O I asked how many offers were made.   11 offers were given for AERE, and between 14 and 19 for Sigs O (I didn't get a real clear answer on that one).   I didn't hear about CELE and I didn't think to ask how many offers were made.

My speculation is that AERE and CELE are difficult to get into right now because there are many less positions available for those occupations than there is for Sigs O.  Probably with just as many people applying to them.

zapoko

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2004, 10:05:39 »
From the inside...

Confirmed,

Infantry and Logistics do not have signing bonuses and their pay rates are totally different than the engineers.

Engineers get the bonus RIGHT AFTER completing BOTC in St Jean. It is taxed heavily. First installment 25000$  but only 15000 in bank account after deductions. (that Quebec tax).

Also monthly pay varies from person to person depending on experience, marks and level of education.






Offline George Wallace

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2004, 10:31:02 »
Also monthly pay varies from person to person depending on experience, marks and level of education.


This is a very vague statement and not at all clear in it's presentation.

A persons experience and education will have an effect on what pay level they will enter as.   If two people enter ROTP at the same time and get their degrees and Phase training completed at the same time, it is most likely that they will be paid the at the same pay level.   The difference will come when a person enters through a different program as DEO, or whatever, and then a decission is made in Ottawa as to what pay level that person will start in, after consideration is given to education, training, and professional development and experience.   In some cases you may find that such a person will start off at a pay scale or two higher than his peers who have entered under a different program and time.   Clear as mud?
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Offline Aden_Gatling

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2004, 12:47:59 »
DEO, or whatever, and then a decission is made in Ottawa as to what pay level that person will start in, after consideration is given to education, training, and professional development and experience.  In some cases you may find that such a person will start off at a pay scale or two higher than his peers who have entered under a different program and time.

Are you saying that as a DEO, you could start in one of the "Incentive Pay" categories above "Basic" on the pay rate tables?  I've not heard that before ...
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Offline Casing

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2004, 13:09:55 »
Real-world experience having an impact on how much you get paid when you start out... I dunno about that.  I have 8 years engineering experience and an extremely high GPA and I am starting out at IPC2 for a 2LT.  The clerk at the CFRC told me that IPC2 for DEO people is standard.  Who to believe, who to believe.

Offline DrSize

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2004, 09:31:31 »
I read somewhere that one of the guys had a close to 3 hour DEO interview.....This leads to my question are DEO Interviews generic across all recruiting centres.  I would naturally say No because my interview has to fit in a 1 hour time slot(I am booked at 9am, and the next officer applicant is booked at 10am).  However on the otherhand a generic interview is the only thing that makes sense.  Also are these interviews taped or recorded to help in the selection of the officers??  If they are not taped or recorded how could the interview have a big impact on the selection.  In most jobs the interview is the deciding factor.  However if the selection board does not see the interview the only thing they have to go on is what the interviewing officer has to say (ie. strong applicant with strengths in..and weaknesses in, or weak applicant...should not be offered position)..

How much of a deciding factor does the interview have on the final decision??

Offline Casing

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2004, 12:10:56 »
Generic to the point that the same sort of things are covered.  The interviewer has a form containing topics that they go over.  They will mark down a grade for that topic, plus perhaps some comments.  This part is fairly generic.  What isn't generic is dependent upon you as an individual.  Your history.  Your unique qualifications.  That sort of thing. 

No, it isn't recorded.  The interviewer will compile a report based upon their findings from the interview and this report will be forwarded to the selection boards for review.

I would say that the interview plays the largest factor in whether you get an offer or not.  The other requirements must be met/passed, but the interview is the prime number, so to speak.

Offline DrSize

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2004, 12:56:17 »
Hey man, thanks for clearing that up.  My interview is Monday morning so I am properly preparing myself.  I have about 40-50 pages of notes I have taken off the forums and various websites to help prepare for the interview.  I'll be going over this notes all weekend.  I just wasn't too sure how some interviews can go for less than an hour and another interview can go for almost 3 hours, that lead to my question. 

I am sure if I start expanding and really get into the interview I will be aloud extra time.  And yeah each individual is different and has very diverse backgrounds so it could not be purely generic.... just down to the areas to cover, that makes sense to me.

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2004, 12:57:04 »
Interview definitely depends on your recruiting officer. Also for some trades there are additional interviews or panels that you must attend as well.

Offline DrSize

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2004, 13:00:30 »
Yeah I definetly can see how it depends on the recruiting officer....this would also lead me to believe that some candidates have a pretty big advantage over other candidates depending on their interviewing officer......this may not seem like a big deal but if DEO positions are as competitive as some people say then it can make all the difference in the world...

Interview definitely depends on your recruiting officer. Also for some trades there are additional interviews or panels that you must attend as well.

Offline 2438210947213

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2004, 22:59:03 »
40 pages of notes? Wow - you will certainly have a lot of info. I had a DEO interview on 29 June of this year at CFRC Kitchener that was  conducted by an Airforce Captain. Lasted about 2 hours, lots of questions about high school and educational experience. Don't sweat it. My sense is that they want to guage your character and ability to learn about your trade as opposed to what you might know right now. Good luck.
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Offline spacedog

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2004, 11:28:24 »
Real-world experience having an impact on how much you get paid when you start out... I dunno about that.   I have 8 years engineering experience and an extremely high GPA and I am starting out at IPC2 for a 2LT.   The clerk at the CFRC told me that IPC2 for DEO people is standard.   Who to believe, who to believe.


I'm DEO as well.  I don't think experience or marks have that much to do with it.  I have an electrical engineering degree, but only a couple of years of work experience, and I got IPC2.  Most people in my trade (SIGS) are also IPC2, except for a few people with non-engineering degrees and no work experience.  However, I do know a few guys who managed to wiggle their way up to IPC2 (complete with back pay) after finding out that they were making less than their buddies :)

Pay always seems to be an issue in the army :)  Never had any problems myself, but it seems like everyone else spends half their time at the pay office trying to rectify various pay issues.

Offline Casing

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Re: DEO - Regular Force - General Questions
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2004, 11:37:30 »
Well, after my swearing-in ceremony I have a little more insight into the initial IPC for DEOs.  Of 6 that swore in (including me), 4 were starting at IPC2, with the other two at IPC1.  The IPC2 lucksters are all engineers, with the other two being Infantry and MPO.  Also, I know that the Infantry guy had a Computer Science degree.  So!  What this tells me is that your initial IPC is essentially based upon your occupation and intake plan.

Conjecture, of course, but the evidence seems to back it up.