Author Topic: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case  (Read 70758 times)

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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1000 on: August 15, 2019, 15:04:11 »
I saw this meme on Facebook this morning and thought it was hilarious!

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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1001 on: August 15, 2019, 15:11:06 »
Specific to Trudeau, I think what we are seeing this week is reporting because they have to, not necessarily because they want to.  As we get closer to election day I think we will see a flurry of positive reporting to diminish all the negatives in the last many months, just in time for everyone to head to the polls.

This hypothesis of mine isn't all encompassing, it's not everyone, but enough involved to sway public opinion.  In many instances public opinion doesn't have to sway much to change the outcome.

I think it might be a case of covering Scheer and the CPC Team blunders more.  We'll see more of that.  More of a "this is your alternative, not sure you are going to like it" kind of thing. 

Trudeau is wearing thin on me but I have yet to warm up to Scheer.   I'll be very interested to see full platforms from both sides.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1002 on: August 15, 2019, 15:21:11 »
Quote from: Remius


Trudeau is wearing thin on me but I have yet to warm up to Scheer. 

Quote
Mario Dion’s report, which found that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau violated the Conflict of Interest Act by improperly pressuring Wilson-Raybould to prevent the Montreal-based company from being prosecuted in a bribery case.

The guy pressures and harasses one of his members to try and stop her from preventing a shady as crap company from being procecusted and it just causes him to wear thin on you?
What would Trudeau have to do to upset you?
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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1003 on: August 15, 2019, 15:47:46 »
The guy pressures and harasses one of his members to try and stop her from preventing a shady as crap company from being procecusted and it just causes him to wear thin on you?
What would Trudeau have to do to upset you?

He's been wearing thin on me for while.  I'm not a rabid partisan one way or another so politics rarely upset me.

It highlights my point as to why Trudeau might actually survive this with at least a minority.   It isn't enough to get people that upset, sorry but that is just the way things are going.  I give this maybe two weeks before it goes away again unless the RCMP lay charges.  There really isn't much more in there that wasn't there before a few months ago.  Nothing we didn't already know or suspect.

He's got several things going for him:

Support in Quebec (where people seem to side with him on this)
He's portrayed as the anti-Trump.  That seems to play well for him in Canada
Weak opposition
People believe or drink the kool aid of what he says.  (Jon Robson this morning described him as Trump with a smile and I think wasn't far off the mark).

I don't like Trudeau
I don't like Scheer

It will boil down to who I dislike less.  I don't think I am the only one who will vote that way. 
   
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1004 on: August 15, 2019, 15:57:30 »
He's been wearing thin on me for while.  I'm not a rabid partisan one way or another so politics rarely upset me.

It highlights my point as to why Trudeau might actually survive this with at least a minority.   It isn't enough to get people that upset, sorry but that is just the way things are going.  I give this maybe two weeks before it goes away again unless the RCMP lay charges.  There really isn't much more in there that wasn't there before a few months ago.  Nothing we didn't already know or suspect.

He's got several things going for him:

Support in Quebec (where people seem to side with him on this)
He's portrayed as the anti-Trump.  That seems to play well for him in Canada
Weak opposition
People believe or drink the kool aid of what he says.  (Jon Robson this morning described him as Trump with a smile and I think wasn't far off the mark).

I don't like Trudeau
I don't like Scheer

It will boil down to who I dislike less.  I don't think I am the only one who will vote that way. 
   

I disagree that it isn't enough to get people upset.  This is the same crap that got the Liberals in hot water last time they formed a Government.  Sponsorship Scandal 2.0 and regardless of what the media says, this is going to affect Trudeau at the voting booth. 

Offline QV

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1005 on: August 15, 2019, 16:10:26 »
I find the conduct of this government appalling.  I am not sure what bothers me more; the conduct, or the perceived public indifference (which I base on his present polling).  I blame the media for this indifference (as I see it). 


Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1006 on: August 15, 2019, 16:28:55 »
I disagree that it isn't enough to get people upset.  This is the same crap that got the Liberals in hot water last time they formed a Government.  Sponsorship Scandal 2.0 and regardless of what the media says, this is going to affect Trudeau at the voting booth.

I said it isn’t enough to get them THAT upset.

Remember that Paul Martin still won the election with a minority a year after adscam broke.  Also several factors played into that that are not currently at play this time around.

I expect it will hurt them at the voting both.  It needs to happen as that is as that is the only thing politicians understand.  But I suspect that JT will still be PM.  Probably a minority.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1007 on: August 15, 2019, 16:31:58 »
I find the conduct of this government appalling.  I am not sure what bothers me more; the conduct, or the perceived public indifference (which I base on his present polling).  I blame the media for this indifference (as I see it).

Agreed.  But I think, QV, that when we talk about ethics commissioner findings and committee appearances etc etc, most Canadians think of these things as political administrative things.  If the RCMP lays charges then maybe that will wake some people up as that is something they understand or can relate to. 
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1008 on: August 15, 2019, 16:36:39 »
I said it isn’t enough to get them THAT upset.

Remember that Paul Martin still won the election with a minority a year after adscam broke.  Also several factors played into that that are not currently at play this time around.

I expect it will hurt them at the voting both.  It needs to happen as that is as that is the only thing politicians understand.  But I suspect that JT will still be PM.  Probably a minority.

We shall see.  I'm pretty disenchanted either way because while Trudeau really rubs me the wrong way and like you, I don't really hold Scheer in high regard either.

The guy is what I would classify in Football Coach Terms as, "A Bag of Milk"

He is yet another career politician (like Trudeau) with no real world experience or actual accomplishments outside of politics.  In other words, he is a snake oil salesman and charlatan and doesn't represent me in the least.  He has been an MP since he was 25 for god sakes. 

Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1009 on: August 15, 2019, 16:48:47 »

The guy is what I would classify in Football Coach Terms as, "A Bag of Milk"


Lol.  I’m using that...
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Offline QV

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1010 on: August 15, 2019, 17:30:53 »
Agreed.  But I think, QV, that when we talk about ethics commissioner findings and committee appearances etc etc, most Canadians think of these things as political administrative things.  If the RCMP lays charges then maybe that will wake some people up as that is something they understand or can relate to.

The RCMP investigated Nigel Wright in the Mike Duffy affair.  Are they going to investigate this?

Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1011 on: August 15, 2019, 17:57:39 »
The RCMP investigated Nigel Wright in the Mike Duffy affair.  Are they going to investigate this?

No clue.  But that had an impact.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1012 on: August 15, 2019, 18:46:58 »
RCMP also investigated VADM Mark Norman. One does not exactly see them as a whiz-bang agency for dealing with white collar crime.

Mark
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1013 on: August 15, 2019, 19:10:27 »
A bit of a tease, but more encouraging than complete silence:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-snc-report-examining-carefully-1.5247119

RCMP looking at SNC-Lavalin affair 'carefully,' promise to take actions 'as required'

Catharine Tunney · CBC News · Posted: Aug 14, 2019 4:43 PM ET

The RCMP says it's reviewing the facts of the SNC-Lavalin affair "carefully" in the wake of a new damning report from the ethics commissioner that found Prime Minister Justin Trudeau violated the Conflict of Interest Act, following renewed calls from the Opposition to investigate.

"The RCMP is examining this matter carefully with all available information and will take appropriate actions as required," spokesperson Chantal Payette said in a statement to CBC News Wednesday.

"It would be inappropriate for us to provide anymore comments on this matter at this time."

The statement marks a noticeable shift in language for the RCMP, which usually declines any comment unless and until charges are laid. Earlier this year, the force said it wouldn't comment on calls for a criminal probe into the Trudeau government's actions in the SNC-Lavalin affair.

<snip>

Offline suffolkowner

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1014 on: August 15, 2019, 19:42:34 »
You would think the RCMP would be a bit snake bit by now to think they can go after the PM. I mean they caught Mulroney with his hand in the cookie jar and it still cost us

Offline Haggis

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1015 on: August 15, 2019, 19:43:33 »
RCMP looking at SNC-Lavalin affair 'carefully,' promise to take actions 'as required'

I doubt they will gain or be granted access to any more information than the ethics commissioner was able to obtain so I don't see the point of this show, except for the PMO to be able to say "the PM and our office  did nothing wrong and everything we did, even if supposedly unethical, has not been proven in court and was in the best interests of Québec Canada."
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Offline ballz

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1016 on: August 15, 2019, 20:48:17 »
How do search warrants work when it's for documents covered by cabinet confidence?

I find it hard to believe the threshold for a warrant hasn't been met, given that at this point we've already reached the balance of probability.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1017 on: August 15, 2019, 21:45:47 »
Sections 38 and 39 of the Canada Evidence Act allow the PCO to designate documents and other material as Cabinet Privileged ( by certificate). The certificate describes what the documents are, but not the content. Courts have very little sway over this- they can examine the certificate but not the documents.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1018 on: Yesterday at 09:30:17 »
Quote from: Humphrey Bogart


The guy is what I would classify in Football Coach Terms as, "A Bag of Milk"


A bag of milk is not very exciting until you're a parent then you'll find yourself driving across down to a 24 hour store at 4am ;)
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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1019 on: Yesterday at 14:10:38 »
A bag of milk is not very exciting until you're a parent then you'll find yourself driving across down to a 24 hour store at 4am ;)

That is actually very tedious....exciting isn’t the word I would use lol.
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Offline ballz

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #1020 on: Yesterday at 16:36:32 »
Sections 38 and 39 of the Canada Evidence Act allow the PCO to designate documents and other material as Cabinet Privileged ( by certificate). The certificate describes what the documents are, but not the content. Courts have very little sway over this- they can examine the certificate but not the documents.

We have no legal mechanism that if the highest, most powerful piece of our executive government was up to no good, that the judicial branch could intervene?

Wasn't the judge in the Norman case acting as the honest broker and reviewing documents that were covered by cabinet confidence to see what was relevant to the case and could be given to the defense?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 18:02:47 by ballz »
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