Author Topic: Seneca College Pilot Program ( CEOTP )  (Read 360126 times)

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Offline Moody

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Re: CEOTP
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2006, 00:10:05 »
Mike your story made me kind of nervous earlier in the day.  I have since come to the understanding that things will happen when they happen, they will tell me when they tell me.  I would also like to echo that Zoomie, Kincanucks, Inch, and Bograt have always been extremely helpful and a big thank you to all of you.  Mike good luck and I will keep in touch.

Thanks and good luck to you too. Been a pleasure chattin' with you along the way. We'll go for pints in two years at the mess when my degree is all wrapped up. What's another 2 years on top of what I have already waited? I just have to go around. Just hope they are still looking for Pilots then...

Inch and Bograt have been a great help/inspiration to me too. Thanks guys. Never thought I would turn an offer for Pilot down...oh well.

mbhabfan, send me pics along the way...
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 00:32:52 by MikeG »

Offline Bender842

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2006, 16:47:04 »
Hey Rob, I don't recall your name, but you will probably remember me,

I graduated from basic in June 01 and started my QL3 comm rsch shortly after, so we were either on the same training or you were on the class before me.

I did my IE and transfered to the reserve after, now I'm also going back in the regular forces. Are you going back as a comm rsch ?

Teasdale (or frequently called frenchy)
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Offline 2023

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2006, 19:18:44 »
Grass isn't always greener on the other side? Welcome back in, good luck to you!
"Even if you control the physical, you do not control the man. If you control his mind.........then you have him."

Offline FastEddy

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2006, 01:55:46 »
Hey guys, Just found this site, Its pretty cool. To introduce myself, My name is Rob I was In Comms Rsch From Jan 01 to Jan 04 got out after my initial contract (really bad idea for anyone thinking on getting out, You have it good, lol). Now I am Joining again under the CEOTP option as either a pilot or an air traffic controller. Can't wait to get back in and start making some real money again, lol. So who else out there made the same mistake as me? And what finally changed your mind to get back in?
Rob


Your anticipated Career Choices indicate that you are more than sufficiently educated, so a better question is why did you get out ?.

As far as making some real money again, I might suggest that it might be interpited as a prime motivation for re-enlistment.

Cheers.


Discipline By Example

Offline MrRGoyer

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2006, 09:45:09 »
Hey Bob and welcome to the site hope you enjoy your stay :salute:
We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people.
- Jul 2005
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Offline Former291er

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2006, 00:15:59 »
Hey teasdale, man I remember you. You, Dantramante and myself went up town one night in kingston, and you were with our ql3 right up until the morse code held you back. You went into RMS clerk did you not? Are you still in? Where are you posted now? I'm back on Cape Breton right now, waiting for the Officer Job Board in June, can't get here soon enough. I am going for my pilot testing the end of April, and if I pass, its all good but if I don't I will probably take air traffic control, although a CELE Officer is what I really want, but they don't offer that with CEOTP as of yet.
Good to hear from ya man, Post back and let me know whats going on.
Rob.
"...ya book readin, Shatner stealin, Mexico touchers!"

Offline Former291er

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2006, 00:17:25 »
Sorry Teasdale I forgot to mention. The Last name is Vaters. What are you going back in as?
"...ya book readin, Shatner stealin, Mexico touchers!"

Offline Former291er

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2006, 00:27:42 »


Your anticipated Career Choices indicate that you are more than sufficiently educated, so a better question is why did you get out ?.

As far as making some real money again, I might suggest that it might be interpited as a prime motivation for re-enlistment.

Cheers.





Hey bro. As for getting out it was a little bit of a few situations. I was only 19 when I joined and got married 3 months later and then only 6 months after that my father passed away. Then 10 months after that in the same month my grandmother died and my other grandmother told us she only had 6 months to live because of cancer(she is still alive by the way). Then about a year after that my wife and I found out that we were going to have a baby. And just to mention, i am not ashamed, my father did commit a rather violent form of suicide that my 16 year old brother and mother walked into find. I only got 2 weeks off from work for that. But back to 2003 when my wife found out she was pregnant my mother and brother were having a hard time so because of all of this, I decided to try to go home and see if I could help out and get my head straight.
I'm sorry if this sounds depressing but it is my story for getting out, i am not at all sensitive or depressed or anything about this anymore. I am just excited as hell to get back into uniform again. Even though I have to do basic training again. lol.
Rob.
"...ya book readin, Shatner stealin, Mexico touchers!"

Offline FastEddy

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2006, 01:07:07 »

Hey bro. As for getting out it was a little bit of a few situations. I was only 19 when I joined and got married 3 months later and then only 6 months after that my father passed away. Then 10 months after that in the same month my grandmother died and my other grandmother told us she only had 6 months to live because of cancer(she is still alive by the way). Then about a year after that my wife and I found out that we were going to have a baby. And just to mention, i am not ashamed, my father did commit a rather violent form of suicide that my 16 year old brother and mother walked into find. I only got 2 weeks off from work for that. But back to 2003 when my wife found out she was pregnant my mother and brother were having a hard time so because of all of this, I decided to try to go home and see if I could help out and get my head straight.
I'm sorry if this sounds depressing but it is my story for getting out, i am not at all sensitive or depressed or anything about this anymore. I am just excited as hell to get back into uniform again. Even though I have to do basic training again. lol.
Rob.


Well Bob, it sure sounds like you've had your share of problems and then some. Kudos's on not letting these events scar your thinking or attitude. I hope that your reenlistment goes smoothly and probally will, but bare in mind that not everyone gets a second chance, so hold on dearly to it.

Keep your progress updated on this Thread so we can all share the Happy Ending.

Good luck. P.S. even though it might be way down the list, I would leave the financial comments out of the conversation.

Cheers.
Discipline By Example

Offline Bender842

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2006, 02:43:32 »
Hey Rob glad to hear that you came out well of all that, I sort of remember hearing about all that stuff during the QL3, I had my own deals of problem too, but they were more related to myself.

Yeah I didn't made it pass the last morse code phase but it was sort of intentionally, it was really driving me nuts and I didn't wanted to end at a morse code station like what we saw in Leitriem for 2-3 years.

I remustered in RMS clerk which was a big mistake too, but I did get to move out west which was one of my dream. After my IE I left and went back to Quebec (where I am right now) to finish my CEGEP degree. Now I'm over with that and all my personal issues etc etc and I'm going back as a NES op, but I'll do another degree part time.

I'm currently working some issues with my girlfriend too, she's from the US and will move with me in Victoria, we too almost had a kid, but didn't end up that way.

While in the reserve I went to aldershot for my QL5, hated the place, but loved NS, I want to go back to hike cape breton.

I was 18 when I joined, and not quite ready for a military career.
Join in the new game that's sweeping the country.  It's called "Bureaucracy".  Everybody stands in a circle.  The first person to do anything loses.

Offline Bender842

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #60 on: March 20, 2006, 02:46:24 »
crap I just recalled, you mean D'entremont, he was from alberta but had a french name, big guy right and in love with his pickup ?

Did you kept contact with other people from the QL3 ??, I kept in touch with Otto, Catherine (little red hair girl) and Wareham, but only for a few months.
Join in the new game that's sweeping the country.  It's called "Bureaucracy".  Everybody stands in a circle.  The first person to do anything loses.

Offline Former291er

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Re: Hello Everyone OnBoard
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2006, 03:04:25 »
Hey collin,
    Ya thats how you spell his name, its been a while, lol. Good to hear your going back in, hope to run into you again. I do keep in touch with a few guys but only Troy Doyle, Jeff Oshier and Aaron Anderson from QL3. When I got to Leitrim we were put on shift and the only people from our course or the course before ours that was on with me was, Troy Doyle, Duncan Allen, Oshier, Archie and desjardins(i think thats how you spell his name). Everyone else was on different shifts so we didn't see much of eachother. Plus at Leitrim you tend to become more shift oriented when it comes to who you hangout with, not to be an *** or anything but just because you spend all your time with them and very little with your old QL3 friends due to working schedules.
As far as you being in aldershot, I was there for my QL3 in reserves infantry for class 9906 in summer of 1999. I liked it there but there is very little to do on the weekends.
I totally agree with you on the age problem. I am not saying that all 18-19 year old soldiers or hopefuls will have a hard time or not like it, but with my experience, I did not realize how good I had it. Good pay, pay every 2 weeks and friends that I was with right from basic training, through to my shift 2 posting in leitrim. So now after spending little over 2 years in the real world with the bad jobs and day to day struggles I realize what a huge mistake I made and am the most gratefull person in canada that I am getting a second chance at my military career.
I'm probably going to be the only person at basic with a smile on his face everyday, lol.
Cheers,
Rob.
"...ya book readin, Shatner stealin, Mexico touchers!"

Offline Former291er

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Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2006, 01:43:03 »
Hello all,
    I have done a search and have found no thread for this topic, I know people have individual threads and posts but I would like a way for everyone going CEOTP to have one thread where they can meet lots of people doing the same thing as themselves. I hope there are more people out there that feel this way too, and I hope to hear from you.
I would like to ask everyone who is going into the forces for CEOTP to post they're story so far and progress on your application here. I would like to hear from everyone else going CEOTP because that is what I am trying for and at least on Cape Breton island I am the only one who is doing this. So I would like to be able to hear from and chat with others going in this direction.
Rob.
"...ya book readin, Shatner stealin, Mexico touchers!"

Offline Double Zero

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2006, 05:28:57 »
Well I'm currently going ROTP at the moment, but I have been discussing switching programs with my recruiter.  When I first applied back in November I wasn't even aware CEOTP was an option.  Since I already have 1 year of University under my belt and a 2 year diploma it seems like it would be a better option.  Plus I would be able to begin working right away which is nice, as opposed to having to wait 3 years until I get my degree.

My profession is Pilot and I'm from Halifax.  Also my medical file is still in the hands of the powers that be, and I'm waiting to hear back on that.

Offline Zach15

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2006, 08:21:45 »
  For some reason my recruited firmly told me CEOTP was not an option for me. I think he said you had to already have a pilots license or something - I almost started an argument with him about it because I had called another recruiting centre earlier in the week and they told me that CEOTP was an option for me.

               /shrug

   I'm ROTP now, and I think I prefer it that way.

   Can anyone veryify the prerequisits for pilot CEOTP?

    Zach

Offline Moody

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2006, 09:09:35 »
Not open for you Zach? But you are almost accepted to ROTP! You should have no problem with CEOTP. Personally, I think you are better off in ROTP. double if I may, I suggest you stick with ROTP. I know, I know - I am lingering but I saw this and couldn't resist on the way by.

My advice, for what it is worth, but as someone who does part time studies in the civie world, get the degree out of the way in ROTP!!!!!  ROTP is an excellent program. Keep in mind CEOTP is part time so you will have to do this on your time and for a very long time.  Wait for them to let you know if you are in to ROTP or not. Then apply to CEOTP if it is still open should you not be accepted. Believe me, I know what you mean about wanting to get on the job fast but according to many discussions and to what I have read, there is close to a 2 year backlog in the pilot training system (Moose Jaw). May as well get the degree in basket weaving out of the way in that time since you already have a year completed. Yes, you would have to wait on top of that for Moose Jaw but the degree is over with.

Some other factors include pay/benefits and the time you owe back. I guess it depends on how important these items are to you. But for some it is really important.

For pay/promotions under ROTP, upon completion of IAP/BOTC, you are promoted to 2nd LT and receive back pay for your time in St.Jean. CEOTP'ers are OCDT's until they time they earn their wings or are MOC qualified. They are not promoted until that time. You can spend close to five years with that pay but the length of time as an OCDT will depend on how long the line is for Moose Jaw. With CEOTP, You go from OCDT to LT (skip 2nd LT) once you are MOC qualified. During your time as an OCDT, you will be making around $2400/month plus annual increases as time goes on. Not exactly sure; I can't get to the payscales for some reason.

There is also the amount of time you owe in return. I think ROTP is 7 years CEOTP is 9 years. When you start paying that back, (after BMQ or when you are MOC qualified) not sure. For me, I would have been a lifer but not everybody is in it for the same reasons. For example., some have "Big Red" or a civie commercial career on the brain after the CF.

Just some advice from a thirty something guy who has tried a couple of times a couple of different ways. If I could rewind ten years, I would get the degree out of the way and go DEO or ROTP.

Zach, CEOTP requirements are: Basic Pilot requirements + credits that will get you accepted at a university (in a nutshell.)
NO flight time required. I bet that receive a lot of applications from commercial pilots out of work who don't have a degree or those who have an Aviation Diploma and no degree. That is why you may hear of a lot of CEOTP applicants with flight time. The aviation industry is very tough to... for lack of a better term...get off the ground in. CEOTP is a great program for people in this situation.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:39:24 by MikeG »

Offline Double Zero

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2006, 10:18:04 »
Ah very interesting post.  I did not know all those facts.  Getting the degree out of the way would definately be nice.  My recruiter doesn't really seem to like the idea of me going to CEOTP either.  I suppose I would be best off sticking with ROPT for now, and perhaps if I don't get accepted, will work on my university degree in the meantime until able to apply again.  Then at that point I'll be up to year 2 or 3, so then maybe CEOTP would be an option then.

And the years I have to pay back is not a real concern, since I see this as a reeeeeeeeeeal long term career.  Why else would I put myself through all this for just a short time?? :)

Offline derael

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2006, 10:23:00 »
Well I think I'm about the only guy in Canada it seems going through CEOTP for Infantry. lol

Just a side note about applying for CEOTP should your ROTP application fail. As I understand it you would have to wait for the next round of CEOTP to go through as it would be too late for your application to be changed over for this round. Then again I'd double check that with your recuiting center.

Offline Moody

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2006, 10:28:07 »
Quote
I suppose I would be best off sticking with ROPT for now, and perhaps if I don't get accepted, will work on my university degree in the meantime until able to apply again.  Then at that point I'll be up to year 2 or 3, so then maybe CEOTP would be an option then.

Ya, don't count on it though. CEOTP has only been open when they can't attract enough DEO applicants and they need to fill spots. Not sure if they are going to keep this program open or close it once they have enough 32U's kicking around. You can apply for ROTP up to the final year of your degree I believe so that is an option too.

Quote
And the years I have to pay back is not a real concern, since I see this as a reeeeeeeeeeal long term career.  Why else would I put myself through all this for just a short time??

I agree but there are some who see this as a great launch pad to a civilian career later in lfe. A "Free training - build flight time" view.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 10:30:55 by MikeG »

Offline Double Zero

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2006, 10:43:51 »
Oh it's definately a great way to enter any civie career ,with all the training and experience you get.  But personally, I doubt I will ever go back if I get accepted.  :salute:

Offline Former291er

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2006, 17:25:48 »

For pay/promotions under ROTP, upon completion of IAP/BOTC, you are promoted to 2nd LT and receive back pay for your time in St.Jean. CEOTP'ers are OCDT's until they time they earn their wings or are MOC qualified. They are not promoted until that time. You can spend close to five years with that pay but the length of time as an OCDT will depend on how long the line is for Moose Jaw. With CEOTP, You go from OCDT to LT (skip 2nd LT) once you are MOC qualified. During your time as an OCDT, you will be making around $2400/month plus annual increases as time goes on. Not exactly sure; I can't get to the payscales for some reason.



I had no idea that this is how the pay scale worked. All along I have been told at the recruiting center that I would go up to 2 LT either upon completion of basic or once on the second language training and be back paid to the date of graduation from basic. If what you say is true, and i'm not saying it isn't, I think I should go into the recruiting center tomorrow to straighten this out.
Thanks for the info.
Rob.
"...ya book readin, Shatner stealin, Mexico touchers!"

Offline Moody

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2006, 19:01:40 »
Former291er, have a look at This thread

In particular, look at Zoomie's post (he is an experienced Buffalo Pilot with 442.) I quoted his posts in regards to CEOTP salary questions below. It seems several of us were not exactly sure on how the pay worked for CEOTP. He was able to share some info on CEOTP with us since he has previously worked with Pilots who were accepted through CEOTP.

Quote
CEOTP pilot candidates remain Officer Cadets until they graduate advanced flight training - where upon they will be insta-promoted to 2Lt and Lt all in one fell swoop.  I joined the CF in Oct 1999 and graduated  advanced flight training in Jan, 2004.  I did not attend RMC during this period of time, that is how it takes to train a CF pilot.

So... You will be an OCdt for a long time - it pays to have your degree before applying.  CEOTP was initially designed for 18 year old high school graduates who would think that $20,000/year was lots of money.  This plan does not help the single income family - you will be able to get by, just don't think about buying a boat in the near future.

Zoomie also shared some info regarding CEOTP in this thread

Quote
A buddy of mine is in his mid-forties, and he just finished up his Pilot training.  For the entire four years that he was undergoing training (not University - just training) he was supporting his wife and daughter on OCdt's salary (which is not much).  I found it challenging making it through my four years of pilot training as a 2Lt.  Unless your wife is pulling in some good coin, you will be living pay cheque to pay cheque.  Heck, I am still doing that now as a 1st incentive Captain (pilot).

You must be prepared to take the lumps when you join the CF with dependants.  You will not be paid a sufficient salary for quite a few years in order to support a family.  Not to dissuade you, but be prepared to cut coupons, go without and live in military housing <not too bad> while waiting for those coveted wings.

So don't let age be a factor in your decision.  Your lack of a degree is definately your largest road-block.  If CEOTP is closed, you need to have at least a 3 year degree from an accredited looniversity

As you can see, he is really a great resource for wannabe pilots on the site. Hope this info sheds some light on CEOTP for you.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 19:05:19 by MikeG »

Offline maniac779

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2006, 19:11:38 »
I've posted this elsewhere as well. But in accordance with suggestions above, I'll post here too.

I'm going CEOTP Pilot.

Here is an update on myself for those of you looking for an idea of what is going on.

I sat down with a MCC at CFRC today and they informed me that there is a problem with my offer, having to do with conditions of rank/promotion/pay etc. Because of my education and backround, I am entitled to certain items not expressed in my offer.

I've informed the recruiters if they can't get this things fixed (I won't go into details, but they ARE signifcant) I will have to reject the offer. They have told me (off the record) that would be a prudent course of action as the errors are due to oversights with involving CFRG, not myself, and that the errors are significant enough to warrant a rejection.

I should know more by tomorrow.

Offline Former291er

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2006, 19:30:18 »
damn that sucks bro. Good luck with that.
"...ya book readin, Shatner stealin, Mexico touchers!"

Offline Former291er

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Re: Everyone going CEOTP.
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2006, 19:39:12 »
Thanks for the post MikeG, lots of good information with the link to the other post. It would really be hard trying to get by for 4 years with a wife and daughter making under 3 grand. I am going into the recruiting center tomorrow before the gym to ask if the captain can dig for some  solid information on pay for CEOTP. Also I am looking into the IAP bypass. I have already done basic training so I am interested to find out if I have to do this. I also have leadership backround as I was in charge of TT3 when I was in leitrim and also HFDF when I was in it. I'll post whatever I can find out.
Rob.
"...ya book readin, Shatner stealin, Mexico touchers!"