Author Topic: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????  (Read 64925 times)

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Offline Remius

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #750 on: October 18, 2020, 22:20:53 »
My big problem with the whole time is that all the politicians, public health officials etc are on the PUBLIC payroll. They are getting paid regardless. Full salaries for them (all pensionable time, right?), and two grand for everyone else. Not the end of the world for a month or two, but the longer they try to drag that on, I see it as an attempt to re-purpose (even weaponize) the virus against the middle class and small business owners etc.

I'm fine with it as long as the politicians and bureaucrats (not talking front line public employees) cut their pay & benefits down at the same time. The moment I see that happen, I'll be happy to defer to their "expert" opinions. In the meantime, I will remain at least somewhat skeptical of the motives behind some decisions being made.

Would you expect the politicians and bureaucrats to stop working?  Because the people getting 2k aren’t actually working.   And what would be the purpose of attacking the middle class?  To what end?
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Offline reveng

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #751 on: October 18, 2020, 22:37:15 »
Would you expect the politicians and bureaucrats to stop working?  Because the people getting 2k aren’t actually working.   And what would be the purpose of attacking the middle class?  To what end?

I didn't say anything about having government employees stop working, I just said the compensation of politicians and certain senior decision makers should be adjusted in solidarity with those less fortunate. Everyone should share the pain. As for your last question, I think there are some that want to make people MORE dependent on the government, not less. For a variety of reasons, some discussed in this thread already, and others that I don't feel like posting - respectfully.

I get that you're probably a PS employee of some kind, and I have no issue with you. In fact, I fully support you. I know you're just trying to do your job, provide for your family, and live your life. You aren't trying to call the shots or trying to force an ideology. I'm happy to agree to disagree on this, as at the time I logged in today, we still had that right here in Canada.

V/r

Edited for clarity, not the best writer.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 23:02:08 by reveng »

Offline Jarnhamar

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Offline Remius

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #753 on: October 19, 2020, 12:36:21 »
I didn't say anything about having government employees stop working, I just said the compensation of politicians and certain senior decision makers should be adjusted in solidarity with those less fortunate. Everyone should share the pain. As for your last question, I think there are some that want to make people MORE dependent on the government, not less. For a variety of reasons, some discussed in this thread already, and others that I don't feel like posting - respectfully.

I get that you're probably a PS employee of some kind, and I have no issue with you. In fact, I fully support you. I know you're just trying to do your job, provide for your family, and live your life. You aren't trying to call the shots or trying to force an ideology. I'm happy to agree to disagree on this, as at the time I logged in today, we still had that right here in Canada.

V/r

Edited for clarity, not the best writer.

I never mentioned ps employees either.  Only bureaucrats and politicians.

Not sure what you interpreted.   :dunno:
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #754 on: October 19, 2020, 16:56:45 »
The credible alternative is the Swedish one.  The noteworthy thing isn't that Sweden didn't do a lot better; the noteworthy thing is that Sweden didn't do a lot worse.

One thing that doesn't get mentioned much is that, despite Sweden not having an official lockdown, lots of Swedes just looked at it, said 'F that' and stayed home anyway. Their death rate is also more then double Canada's (58.4 per 100k vice 24.6).

Aside from social distancing, aggressive test/trace and effective quarantine where really effective at keeping the spread down, but where you look at a population that already is used to wearing masks for pollution or flu season, then half the battle is won.

We have arseclowns that still think the earth is flat, vaccines cause autism and there is a pedo pizza chain operating a shadowy cabal, so you can never discount the idiot factor to keeping the spread, but things like population age, average health, and all kinds of other things affect it the spread as well. Really hard to say that we would have had double the deaths if we'd gone the same route (instead of more then or less then double). But all things being equal, I guess you could say this is the cost of about 10, 000 lives, plus another 200k with some percentage of long term damage. As well, if we hit a point of overwhelming the medical system there would have been a bunch of other deaths that would have been avoidable otherwise, so it likely would have been worse overall.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #755 on: October 19, 2020, 17:14:23 »
Liberals say creation of anti-corruption committee would have confidence implications
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberals-say-creation-of-anti-corruption-committee-would-have-confidence-implications-1.5151017?cid=sm%3Atrueanthem%3Actvnews%3Apost&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook


Sure frigging would lol

It fits with the growing rumblings in the city that the Liberals are maneuvering for an early-Spring ‘21 election.  :nod:

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #756 on: October 19, 2020, 17:28:21 »
>lots of Swedes just looked at it, said 'F that' and stayed home anyway.

Exactly.  Relatively little compulsion required.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #757 on: October 19, 2020, 19:06:23 »
Really says it all about our government doesn't it.

Liberals threaten to call election if Parliament passes 'anti-corruption' committee motion
The Liberals are threatening to send Canadians to the polls if Parliament passes an opposition motion to create an “anti-corruption” committee, calling the Conservative proposal “ultra-partisan” and “irresponsible.”
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/liberals-threaten-to-call-election-if-parliament-passes-anti-corruption-committee-motion/ar-BB1abCqQ?li=AAggNb9


They're against an anti-corruption committee. That speaks volumes, at least they're not beating around the bush anymore.
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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #758 on: October 19, 2020, 19:19:29 »
Really says it all about our government doesn't it.

Liberals threaten to call election if Parliament passes 'anti-corruption' committee motion
The Liberals are threatening to send Canadians to the polls if Parliament passes an opposition motion to create an “anti-corruption” committee, calling the Conservative proposal “ultra-partisan” and “irresponsible.”
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/liberals-threaten-to-call-election-if-parliament-passes-anti-corruption-committee-motion/ar-BB1abCqQ?li=AAggNb9


They're against an anti-corruption committee. That speaks volumes, at least they're not beating around the bush anymore.

Not even trying to pretend that this a democracy any more. Outright contempt for the people of this country and their future.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline CBH99

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #759 on: October 19, 2020, 19:40:08 »
Not even trying to pretend that this a democracy any more. Outright contempt for the people of this country and their future.


Go ahead JT, call an election.  Do it. 

Your ego might be a wee bit surprised at how far you've fallen since you were first elected...


Or, save the taxpayers the money & the hassle, and just walk off the job.  Accomplish the same outcome with significantly less hassle. 

 :2c:
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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #760 on: October 19, 2020, 19:56:49 »

Go ahead JT, call an election.  Do it. 

Your ego might be a wee bit surprised at how far you've fallen since you were first elected...


Or, save the taxpayers the money & the hassle, and just walk off the job.  Accomplish the same outcome with significantly less hassle. 

 :2c:

I would not bet against the Liberals winning an election. O'Toole was probably the right man for the last election, but with Covid it's not a good time to be in opposition

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #761 on: October 19, 2020, 20:03:35 »
>The Liberals are threatening to send Canadians to the polls if Parliament passes an opposition motion to create an “anti-corruption” committee

That's not anti-democratic or a display of contempt.  It would basically be a referral to the ultimate "anti-corruption" committee of Canada.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #762 on: October 19, 2020, 20:37:43 »
Quote from: Brad Sallows


That's not anti-democratic or a display of contempt.  It would basically be a referral to the ultimate "anti-corruption" committee of Canada.

Except in that case a large chunk of the committee doesn't care about corruption as long as they're getting taken care of.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #763 on: October 19, 2020, 21:49:05 »
I would not bet against the Liberals winning an election. O'Toole was probably the right man for the last election, but with Covid it's not a good time to be in opposition
A quick glance at 338Canada.com predicts that the Liberals could form a majority if an election were held right now.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #764 on: October 19, 2020, 23:52:27 »
As of 2019 we weren't too bad corruption-wise according to these guys: Transparency International....

Transparency International is a global movement working in over 100 countries to end the injustice of corruption.

We focus on issues with the greatest impact on people’s lives and hold the powerful to account for the common good. Through our advocacy, campaigning and research, we work to expose the systems and networks that enable corruption to thrive, demanding greater transparency and integrity in all areas of public life.

Our mission
Our mission is to stop corruption and promote transparency, accountability and integrity at all levels and across all sectors of society.

Our vision
Our vision is a world in which government, politics, business, civil society and the daily lives of people are free of corruption.

We are independent, non-governmental, not-for-profit and work with like-minded partners across the world to end the injustice of corruption.


CORRUPTION PERCEPTIONS INDEX


https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi#
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #765 on: October 20, 2020, 06:08:23 »

Go ahead JT, call an election.  Do it. 

Your ego might be a wee bit surprised at how far you've fallen since you were first elected...


Or, save the taxpayers the money & the hassle, and just walk off the job.  Accomplish the same outcome with significantly less hassle. 

 :2c:

Now is not the time to have the Liberals lose and election.  They need to sit in this mess for 2 more terms.  Let them truly display their colors, and let Canadians truly see them.  And until this pandemic flattens out and begins to recede an election would simply refocus our efforts from where they need to be!
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Offline Remius

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #766 on: October 20, 2020, 06:37:05 »
A quick glance at 338Canada.com predicts that the Liberals could form a majority if an election were held right now.

The Libs know this.  Probably why they made the threat.
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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #767 on: October 20, 2020, 06:40:48 »
Now is not the time to have the Liberals lose and election.  They need to sit in this mess for 2 more terms.  Let them truly display their colors, and let Canadians truly see them.  And until this pandemic flattens out and begins to recede an election would simply refocus our efforts from where they need to be!

It must be nice to have the kind of job that could survive 8 more years of this. Me? as I approach the slippery side of 60, I don't hold out much hope for my financial security in my "golden years". Maybe I'll be able to afford a van down by the river.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #768 on: October 20, 2020, 10:41:18 »
It must be nice to have the kind of job that could survive 8 more years of this. Me? as I approach the slippery side of 60, I don't hold out much hope for my financial security in my "golden years". Maybe I'll be able to afford a van down by the river.

I am very sorry you are in this situation. 
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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #769 on: October 20, 2020, 11:15:04 »
I am very sorry you are in this situation.

I’m good as things stand now, but if that drunken monkey with my credit card gets eight more years, all bets are off.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #770 on: October 20, 2020, 13:02:58 »
I’m good as things stand now, but if that drunken monkey with my credit card gets eight more years, all bets are off.

Well if Erin O’Toole can’t keep the monkeys to a minority, then maybe Rona Ambrose will have had enough time to settle down and put her name in the ring for the 2024, thus keeping the monkeys’ damage to only four years...

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #771 on: October 20, 2020, 17:39:25 »
I believe that the GG is not bound to dissolve parliament in this instance. She could offer the Conservatives the opportunity to form a government first. Although knowing which side her bread is buttered on makes that less likely.
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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #772 on: October 20, 2020, 21:19:22 »
Personally I don't think things look good for the Conservative Party right now and that's saying something. An irrelevant NDP means that fewer votes will be bled off the Liberal Party to the Left. Leaving the Conservative Party to hope to bleed off the Blue Liberals especially as the Liberals as a whole appear to move to the left. I'm just not sure if there's enough there to make the swing happen. Has the whole country moved to the left? And by how much? In the end I think it's possible the Conservative Party is just the NDP of the right with a very strong rural/western base. Every 12-20 years voter dissatisfaction with the corruption of the Liberal Party will allow for their return to power for a term or two. On the WE charity scandal, I'm fairly convinced that something is there to be hidden, otherwise the Liberals are just making it worse on themselves. But unless it breaks out into the open I dont see it making a difference

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #773 on: October 20, 2020, 21:28:50 »
I believe that the GG is not bound to dissolve parliament in this instance. She could offer the Conservatives the opportunity to form a government first. Although knowing which side her bread is buttered on makes that less likely.

Generally, constitutional scholars suggest that Parliament falling in the first six months of a minority mandate would be rationale to ask another party to form government; more than a year into the mandate, custom strongly steers her towards granting dissolution (barring exceptional circumstances, none of which appear in this instance).

Look for Philippe Lagassé and Emmett Macfarlane; they have both done some writing on the topic.

https://carleton.ca/npsia/people/philippe-lagasse/
https://uwaterloo.ca/political-science/people-profiles/emmett-macfarlane
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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????
« Reply #774 on: October 20, 2020, 22:04:51 »
Generally, constitutional scholars suggest that Parliament falling in the first six months of a minority mandate would be rationale to ask another party to form government; more than a year into the mandate, custom strongly steers her towards granting dissolution (barring exceptional circumstances, none of which appear in this instance).

Look for Philippe Lagassé and Emmett Macfarlane; they have both done some writing on the topic.

https://carleton.ca/npsia/people/philippe-lagasse/
https://uwaterloo.ca/political-science/people-profiles/emmett-macfarlane

I think a key factor here has to be the ability of the opposition to generate support, unlike in the Harper minority there is no clear path for the opposition parties to support each other. The NDP, BLOCQ and Conservatives make uneasy bedfellows