Author Topic: RBG dead at 87  (Read 3752 times)

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Offline QV

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2020, 08:35:39 »
with an absolute lunatic at the helm.

Almost all of the crazies are reacting to Trump, they are opposed to Trump. Imagine if they or those they support were in charge?

My initial thought was Trump could reach across the isle by delaying the appointment until after the election.  Settle things down a little.  Then I saw the crazy town reaction.  That, and after learning a little more history on Supreme Court appointments in the US, I now believe he should ram this through as quick as possible. RBG would have agreed, at one point.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2020, 09:50:17 »
That, and after learning a little more history on Supreme Court appointments in the US, I now believe he should ram this through as quick as possible. RBG would have agreed, at one point.

RBG excelled at making her opinion on subjects known, so can you back that assertion up with reference to something she actually wrote or said?
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Offline kkwd

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2020, 10:43:03 »
RBG excelled at making her opinion on subjects known, so can you back that assertion up with reference to something she actually wrote or said?
Her opinion in 2016 was documented by WaPo.

Quote
“I do think cooler heads will prevail, I hope sooner rather than later,” Ginsburg said. “The president is elected for four years not three years, so the power he has in year three continues into year four.”

“Maybe members of the Senate will wake up and appreciate that that’s how it should be.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/ginsburg-suggests-senate-should-act-on-garland-nomination-but-says-it-cannot-be-forced-to/2016/09/07/0f10b7b6-754c-11e6-b786-19d0cb1ed06c_story.html
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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2020, 11:30:58 »
March 16 2016 President Obama nominated Merrick Garland versus September ?? 2020 President Trump nominates ??. If the Senate couldn't approve a nomination in 8 months seems like they'll be hard pressed in one month. Thank God we haven't degenerated into this nonsense up here yet
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Online Remius

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2020, 11:35:40 »
That’s the hypocrisy of the the likes of Mitch McConnell, Lyndsey Graham and many Fox pundits who justified not appointing the year of the last election. 

Right now I am of the opinion that the POTUS has a duty to appoint a SC justice as soon as he can.  If he feasibly has time then he should do so.  The Senate should indeed make this as smooth as possible.

But given what the Republicans did last time, it is no wonder that the democrats will do whatever they can to stall or stop it from happening.

The GOP reaping what it sowed.

Their lame excuse about how it’s different is BS.  I’d respect them more if they just flat out admitted it for what it is and was.

Guaranteed if they rush this though the Dems will push to “stack” the SC if they get the chance.

An overall interesting turn of events in what is already a goat rodeo campaign.

Edit: grammar

+600 « Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 11:52:53 by Remius »
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2020, 11:43:52 »
So RBG had something like 4 bouts with cancer, so why didn't she hang up the robes years ago under a democratic president and ensure a democratic leaning justice was appointed. This would had avoided all this drama to come.
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Online Remius

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2020, 11:54:00 »
So RBG had something like 4 bouts with cancer, so why didn't she hang up the robes years ago under a democratic president and ensure a democratic leaning justice was appointed. This would had avoided all this drama to come.

Ah so it’s her fault?
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Offline mariomike

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2020, 11:56:30 »
, so why didn't she hang up the robes years ago under a democratic president and ensure a democratic leaning justice was appointed.

With Mitch as Senate Majority Leader, do you think that was likely?

Remember how Mitch handled Merrick Garland?
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Online Remius

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2020, 11:57:08 »
With Mitch as Senate Majority Leader, do you think that was likely?

Not a chance.  Which is why she was hanging on as long as she could.
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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2020, 11:58:18 »
Ah so it’s her fault?

No, but like I tell some of the dinosaurs at work, hang 'em up so someone younger can have a shot at something also.  87 and working in a wanted job is selfish, IMO of course.
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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2020, 12:11:14 »
ego/vanity is the likely reason she didn't retire during either of President Obama's two terms. But perhaps she just wasn't as invested in the political process as so many people like to attribute to the Supreme Court justices/nominees

Offline QV

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2020, 12:12:12 »
That’s the hypocrisy of the the likes of Mitch McConnell, Lyndsey Graham and many Fox pundits who justified not appointing the year of the last election. 

Right now I am of the opinion that the POTUS has a duty to appoint a SC justice as soon as he can.  If he feasibly has time then he should do so.  The Senate should indeed make this as smooth as possible.

But given what the Republicans did last time, it is no wonder that the democrats will do whatever they can to stall or stop it from happening.

The GOP reaping what it sowed.

Their lame excuse about how it’s different is BS.  I’d respect them more if they just flat out admitted it for what it is and was.

Guaranteed if they rush this though the Dems will push to “stack” the SC if they get the chance.

An overall interesting turn of events in what is already a goat rodeo campaign.

Edit: grammar

With respect Remius, if you think the GOP is reaping what it sow or there is hypocrisy here then you do not have any understanding of the process or it’s history. I urge you to hear Scott Adam’s explanation. 

Simple version: if presidency and senate are same party then nominate and confirm, if presidency and senate not the same party then don’t. 

McConnel is on the record warning the Democrats about changing the process to a simple majority from two thirds and that they’d regret that, but the Democrats changed it anyway.

Now the Republicans are going to take advantage of the new rules and they are somehow wrong and hypocrites?

Online Remius

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2020, 12:14:54 »
No, but like I tell some of the dinosaurs at work, hang 'em up so someone younger can have a shot at something also.  87 and working in a wanted job is selfish, IMO of course.

What would be the max age? I agree that life terms need to be reviewed.  65?

We have two seniors running for President.  Just saying.  With that logic Trump and Biden should both step aside. 

Tongue and cheek but you know what I mean. 
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2020, 12:21:32 »
Both sides are hypocritical.  The Democrats wanted a confirmation when it benefited them and object now that it won't; the Republicans didn't want a confirmation when it didn't benefit them and want one now that it does.

The inescapable difference that cannot be washed away no matter how much table-pounding people want to do is the fact of divided party control then and single party control now.  People talked about the issue long before 2016.

There is a simple explanation for Ginsburg choosing to continue: she was confident she could make a difference in a place where a lot of differences are made.  There is little to be gained trying to game out future election results and nomination choices, versus the certainty of knowing what one is capable of doing.
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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2020, 12:34:53 »
What would be the max age? I agree that life terms need to be reviewed.  65?

We have two seniors running for President.  Just saying.  With that logic Trump and Biden should both step aside. 

Tongue and cheek but you know what I mean.

True but the President is an elected position and at least nominally the capability of the individual is reviewable. I don't think in a normal world that either Presidential candidate would be acceptable. In Canada the age is 75(?). To early a retirement and you run the risk of former justices calling into question the entire process by their after court behaviour

Offline mariomike

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2020, 12:52:35 »
We have two seniors running for President.  Just saying.  With that logic Trump and Biden should both step aside. 

President Eisenhower put it this way,

Quote
“The greater likelihood that a man of 70 will break down under a load than a man of 50,”
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-real-presidential-age-question
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline QV

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2020, 13:16:37 »
Both sides are hypocritical.  The Democrats wanted a confirmation when it benefited them and object now that it won't; the Republicans didn't want a confirmation when it didn't benefit them and want one now that it does.

The inescapable difference that cannot be washed away no matter how much table-pounding people want to do is the fact of divided party control then and single party control now.  People talked about the issue long before 2016.

There is a simple explanation for Ginsburg choosing to continue: she was confident she could make a difference in a place where a lot of differences are made.  There is little to be gained trying to game out future election results and nomination choices, versus the certainty of knowing what one is capable of doing.

When the Democrats had control and changed the rules to simple majority instead of requiring 2/3 of the senate vote, they ensured the nominee would forever be partisan.  With 2/3 of the vote to confirm, some bipartisan confirmation was generally required. Republicans were against this change then when it didn’t suit them, should they now change the rules back instead of following them?

I agree there is hypocrisy on both sides, but there are degrees and one side is by far more than the other. One side wants to preserve the Republic, the other wants to dismantle it.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2020, 13:20:38 »
I agree there is hypocrisy on both sides, but there are degrees and one side is by far more than the other. One side wants to preserve the Republic, the other wants to dismantle it.

 :rofl:

Time to get some McCarthyism goin!
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Offline Baden Guy

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2020, 13:32:36 »
I  certainly agree with this part from QV.

"I agree there is hypocrisy on both sides, but there are degrees and one side is by far more than the other."
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Offline mariomike

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2020, 13:45:18 »
Wait until after the election when the Republicans might lose control of the Senate so that leaves doing it now , although without some Democrat suppott may not be possible.

Do you think that is likely?

The reason I ask is, today Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight, had this to say about the chance of that happening.
Quote
Sep. 20, 2020

Nate Silver

The Senate’s Rural Skew Makes It Very Hard For Democrats To Win The Supreme Court
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-senates-rural-skew-makes-it-very-hard-for-democrats-to-win-the-supreme-court/



« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 14:21:42 by mariomike »
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline suffolkowner

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2020, 14:26:20 »
Do you think that is likely?

The reason I ask is, today Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight, had this to say about the chance of that happening.

from the link

Rural: Less than 25,000 people live within a 5-mile radius of you;
Exurban or small town: Between 25,000 and 100,000 people within a 5-mile radius;
Suburban or small city: Between 100,000 and 250,000 people within a 5-mile radius;
Urban core or large city: More than 250,000 people within a 5-mile radius.

I laughed because 25,000 within a 5 mile radius doesn't seem very rural to me

Offline Baden Guy

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2020, 14:31:09 »
OK mariomike it's all your fault for getting my hopes up :

Latest news
SEPT. 18, 2020

Joe Biden’s lead in national polls has narrowed to 7 percentage points, but he remains favored to win the election because we have a number of high-quality state polls that contain mostly good news for him. States like Minnesota, Arizona and Wisconsin show particularly strong numbers for Biden; however, don’t count President Trump out. He may be the underdog, but he still has a roughly one-in-four chance of pulling off an upset, and in states like Florida and North Carolina, he’s managed to narrow the gap considerably.

We’ve launched our Senate forecast, and according to our model, Democrats are slight favorites to regain control. Democrats have strong pick-up opportunities in the Arizona special election as well as in the Colorado, North Carolina and Maine races. But remember, taking back the Senate is likely a heavier lift for Democrats than taking back the presidency. That’s because a solid but not overwhelming margin in the presidential race could mean Democrats still come up short. The national environment is good for Democrats this year, but it isn’t on par with what we saw in 2018.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

Offline mariomike

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2020, 14:39:40 »
I laughed because 25,000 within a 5 mile radius doesn't seem very rural to me

Could have something to do with population density?

United States approximately 93 residents per square mile.

Canada 11 per square mile.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 14:43:45 by mariomike »
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline suffolkowner

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2020, 14:48:40 »
Could have something to do with population density?

United States approximately 93 residents per square mile.

Canada 11 per square mile.

And yet the same trends run up here with our rural ridings tending conservative. I wonder what our comparables would be?

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: RBG dead at 87
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2020, 15:07:41 »
With Mitch as Senate Majority Leader, do you think that was likely?

Remember how Mitch handled Merrick Garland?

Who knows guess we'll never know. They had 8 years under Obama, I'm sure they could of gotten a replacement for her in that time. Its sad that she died but even if the Cancer didn't kill her at some point new blood is needed. People need to know when to step down.
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