Author Topic: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)  (Read 817952 times)

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Offline Loachman

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2100 on: December 19, 2018, 21:46:40 »
Whatever your thoughts about iAOR and JSS, this shot across the bows by Chantier/Davie is damn funny!

https://www.facebook.com/CoultishManagement/videos/1172581732876205/

Absolutely brilliant.

I hope that Davie's PR Guy/Girl is getting paid what he/she is worth, plus a huge tip.

Offline garb811

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2101 on: December 19, 2018, 22:01:08 »
Considering it's been out for over a year and people here with a keen interest in the issue have just come across it, I think the tip shouldn't be overly large...

Offline FSTO

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2102 on: December 20, 2018, 06:11:42 »
Considering it's been out for over a year and people here with a keen interest in the issue have just come across it, I think the tip shouldn't be overly large...

I had never seen it before.
But the way its presented it was before the government said that they didn't need another iAOR.

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2103 on: December 20, 2018, 09:58:45 »
I had never seen it before.
But the way its presented it was before the government said that they didn't need another iAOR.

Yes it did make the rounds on social media, Davie does have a good PR machine and the amount of promoting they are doing is evidence they are getting desperate especially as the PM has slammed the door on a second AOR.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline jmt18325

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2104 on: December 20, 2018, 12:23:20 »
Maybe I'd be happier if somebody in Canada could just tell me the price of an apple.....like the rest of the world can.

For government accounting and budgeting purposes, it's far more important to know the entire cost of the 'apple'.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2105 on: December 20, 2018, 13:23:46 »
I would take that article on the Asterix with a little grain of salt.

The writer says she was built from a tanker, which is not the case as she was converted from a container ship. Also, they call the cyclone a single-engine helicopter. While the Cyclone are single-rotor helicopters (as opposed to twin-rotor like the Chinook), they are definitely twin-engined, not single.

Considering they know what it is and does, that's better than articles about any green vehicle as a "tank" and an Aurora as a "spy plane".   :nod:
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Offline Baz

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2106 on: December 23, 2018, 18:05:01 »
Davie must really be desperate, think the PM will reverse his decision especially with the Admiral Norman trial going on? I wonder did Davie actually purchase the sister ship and counted on the government buying the second hull and now need the order?

I wouldn't read it that way.  The Asterix is being portrayed as a success story, they have the support of the Conservatives and the Province du Quebec, and their competition is not enjoying positive press right now.  Doesn't matter if what is being portrayed is completely correct or not, as a business they should be pushing and hope that something gives.

I would imagine that's what the shareholders want.

However, nothing is *likely* to give in the next year.

However... *if* Asterix continues to be seen as a success, *and* the province continues to back Davie, *and* the Conservatives make inroads in Quebec, *and* there is a change of government... the landscape would then look very different and Davie keeping the story out there would have a better chance of making something give.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2107 on: December 23, 2018, 19:47:25 »
Davie is privately-held, no share trading:

Quote
...Davie’s parent company [Inocea–“a privately held group of companies headquartered in Europe (Monte-Carlo)”] [ http://www.inocea.com/ ]...
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2016/03/11/mark-collins-davie-quebec-wants-to-build-icebreaker-for-unload-other-vessels-on-canadian-coast-guard/

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Offline Baz

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2108 on: December 23, 2018, 20:02:20 »
Davie is privately-held, no share trading:

Mark
Ottawa

See now I feel dumb... I actually thought that might be the case so I typed TSX Davie into google and came up with https://ca.advfn.com/stock-market/TSX/DAV/stock-price.  I saw it was listed as DAV but didn't notice all the info was blank.

If I had of just looked three results lower
Then I would have seen https://www.newswire.ca/fr/news-releases/tsx-delisting-review---davie-yards-inc-dav-539474831.html and found out it was delisted in 2010.

Lack of google-fu on my part.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2109 on: December 23, 2018, 20:39:44 »
Baz: certainly not trying to make you feel dumb, good research. I just love the Monte Carlo angle, "the man who broke the bank at" angle (with a "Lawrence of Arabia" twist at the video!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJymx3UjWLo

Mark
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Offline Brihard

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2110 on: December 23, 2018, 20:55:27 »
Yes it did make the rounds on social media, Davie does have a good PR machine and the amount of promoting they are doing is evidence they are getting desperate especially as the PM has slammed the door on a second AOR.

I wouldn't say it's 'desperation'. It's an election year and they know it. They also know that the issue is unusually prominent given the ongoing Norman case, which of course will come to trial shortly before the polls. This is basically the only time 'normal' Canadians are likely to notice or care about naval replenishment ships. It also puts the option out there as an alluring election plank for the Conservatives, who probably recognize the benefit of a nice cookie for Quebec. Particularly one a veritable stone's throw from Bernier's riding.

I doubt Davie expects the Liberals to buy another iAOR. I think they hope the Conservatives will be in a position to.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2111 on: December 23, 2018, 21:11:09 »
Just keep in mind Davie is a Very Big Thing in Quebec, federal election next year and all that (Dec. 7 release from Davie itself but...78 seats in House of Commons):

Quote
Quebec's National Assembly unanimously adopted a motion in support of the Federal government's reform or 'refresh' of the National Shipbuilding Strategy.

The motion called upon the federal government to endorse the House of Commons and Senate's recommendations to proceed immediately with the construction at Davie Shipbuilding of a second Resolve-Class Naval Support Ship as well as a new fleet of icebreakers for the Canadian Coast Guard...
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/quebecs-national-assembly-unanimously-adopts-a-motion-in-support-of-the-federal-governments-refresh-of-the-national-shipbuilding-strategy-702203571.html

And so far they have sold one supply ship and three CCG icebreakers (all re-builds) in the face of a negative bureaucracy. How wise to bet against some more work, esp. as Irving and Seaspan are oh so slow?

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2112 on: December 23, 2018, 21:45:01 »
I wouldn't say it's 'desperation'. It's an election year and they know it. They also know that the issue is unusually prominent given the ongoing Norman case, which of course will come to trial shortly before the polls. This is basically the only time 'normal' Canadians are likely to notice or care about naval replenishment ships. It also puts the option out there as an alluring election plank for the Conservatives, who probably recognize the benefit of a nice cookie for Quebec. Particularly one a veritable stone's throw from Bernier's riding.

I doubt Davie expects the Liberals to buy another iAOR. I think they hope the Conservatives will be in a position to.

From what I have been told they may actually own the second ship and did so with the expectation the government was going to build the second. I would expect they probably want to unload that hull. It is entirely possible they proceed to build a second Asterix type ship and offer it to another Navy.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline kratz

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2113 on: December 23, 2018, 22:11:08 »
Quote from: Chief Engineer
From what I have been told they may actually own the second ship and did so with the expectation the government was going to build the second. I would expect they probably want to unload that hull. It is entirely possible they proceed to build a second Asterix type ship and offer it to another Navy.

Isn't that the sweet spot with the intent for the national ship building program?
If our ship yards are running 100% and selling to meet international demands, while meeting our needs...
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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2114 on: December 24, 2018, 07:31:40 »
I have very little faith that ISI will ever be able to sell a warship to anyone other than the RCN - they are not competitive in the world market. 
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2115 on: December 24, 2018, 08:10:10 »
Not particularly competitive in the. Canadian market, for that matter...
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2116 on: December 24, 2018, 11:50:30 »
Not particularly competitive in the. Canadian market, for that matter...
I have very little faith that ISI will ever be able to sell a warship to anyone other than the RCN - they are not competitive in the world market.

I didn't think competitiveness was a requirement in Canadian ship building programs. 
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Offline Colin P

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2117 on: December 24, 2018, 12:14:10 »
By the time the first JSS enters active service, Astreix is going to need a decent refit, when she is through that, we have 1 AOR for each coast for at least 2 years, then the next JSS comes online and will be bouncing from coast to coast as vessels go in and out of refit, unplanned events, etc.

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2118 on: December 24, 2018, 22:21:11 »
By the time the first JSS enters active service, Astreix is going to need a decent refit, when she is through that, we have 1 AOR for each coast for at least 2 years, then the next JSS comes online and will be bouncing from coast to coast as vessels go in and out of refit, unplanned events, etc.

You are assuming we will keep Asterix past the 5 year lease....
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline FSTO

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2119 on: December 25, 2018, 09:18:41 »
You are assuming we will keep Asterix past the 5 year lease....

Because that would make total sense to get rid of an asset prior to the first JSS reaching IOC let alone FOC.

But then again, thats the Canadian way isn't it?

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2120 on: December 25, 2018, 09:47:14 »
Because that would make total sense to get rid of an asset prior to the first JSS reaching IOC let alone FOC.

But then again, thats the Canadian way isn't it?

If the Libs are in power I cant seem then extending it or out right buying.  They already tried to kill it, and wont admit we need a second one;  this would be the perfect opportunity from their political standpoint. 
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2121 on: December 25, 2018, 09:47:26 »
Because that would make total sense to get rid of an asset prior to the first JSS reaching IOC let alone FOC.

But then again, thats the Canadian way isn't it?

I know the civilian crew when hired were told to expect at least 7 years work, between now and then who knows. At the end of 7 years the hull will be reaching 20 years of age with very little downtime I expect.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2122 on: December 25, 2018, 09:48:39 »
I know the civilian crew when hired were told to expect at least 7 years work, between now and then who knows. At the end of 7 years the hull will be reaching 20 years of age with very little downtime I expect.

20 years is nothing for a hull in RCN ;)   You know that as well I do Chief! lol
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2123 on: December 25, 2018, 09:54:26 »
20 years is nothing for a hull in RCN ;)   You know that as well I do Chief! lol

Except its not a RCN hull, its a rental and will be used more than our own AOR's when we had them.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
« Reply #2124 on: December 25, 2018, 10:17:54 »
Except its not a RCN hull, its a rental and will be used more than our own AOR's when we had them.

I dunno our PRO Class did lots of sea time.  It was only the last 5-10 years where they became building with a commission and sea pay.  I did 3 years on PRE, lots of sea days there.

Rental or our own 40 is our 20, just ask the IRO and Cadillac's lol
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