Author Topic: The CFS Alert Merged Thread  (Read 129293 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Still In Sarajevo

  • Member
  • ****
  • -60
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 146
  • VVV
The CFS Alert Merged Thread
« on: July 28, 2004, 17:50:53 »
Does anybody know how I can get information on the General Duty tours to CFS Alert? I know we used to have them in our base routine orders, but they're not there anymore. Any ideas or links would be greatly appreciated.
It takes the reasonable man to understand that he must adapt himself to the world around him. It takes the unreasonable man to try and change the world so it adapts to him. That is why our world's progress depends on the unreasonable man.

Offline axeman

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 1,405
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 389
  • It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
Re: CFS Alert - General Duties
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2004, 18:46:24 »
apply through your chain of command for it i know a guy thats finished his just a while ago  he says it was an excallent chance to save money and work out
I'm not saying to kill all the stupid people . .. Just remove the warning labels and let nature run it's course

Offline Still In Sarajevo

  • Member
  • ****
  • -60
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 146
  • VVV
Re: CFS Alert - General Duties
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2004, 21:45:37 »
Before I do that, I would like some solid information to include in my memo suchas dates, duties, etc.
It takes the reasonable man to understand that he must adapt himself to the world around him. It takes the unreasonable man to try and change the world so it adapts to him. That is why our world's progress depends on the unreasonable man.

Offline Griswald, DME

  • Member
  • ****
  • 220
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 111
The CFS Alert Merged Thread
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2004, 15:17:07 »
I understand a few years ago a fellow raised a stink about the "indoors only" smoking policy at CFS Alert and it was changed.  Because if not theres no way in hell I'm going back there to expose my lungs to that crap.  Anyone been to Alert this year can fill me in on the latest?


DME

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2004, 17:44:38 »
A lot of places have special rooms with extensive air systems.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline Griswald, DME

  • Member
  • ****
  • 220
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 111
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2004, 17:55:46 »
A lot of places have special rooms with extensive air systems.

At CFS Alert!??  Amazing!   When I was in Alert they had nothing remotely like this - there was HVAC of course, but that only recirculates the air into each room.  When did all the special rooms with air systems go in?

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2004, 19:05:59 »
No sorry to throw you off.  What I meant was that in other CF establishments (ie. messes) there has been this debate as well and they have made smoking rooms.  As far as Alert is concerned I have no specifics.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline Nix

  • Hellfire ain't got it
  • Member
  • ****
  • 1,485
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 134
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2004, 20:02:05 »
No sorry to throw you off.   What I meant was that in other CF establishments (ie. messes) there has been this debate as well and they have made smoking rooms.   As far as Alert is concerned I have no specifics.

CFL, Alert is quite different from most postings because of its remoteness.   The max. time you can be posted there is six months.   The smoking policy when I was there was also indoor only.   You couldn't smoke outside.   You could smoke in your room (including your bed if you were that dumb), you could smoke in all common areas, you could smoke in the sh*tter if you wanted - anywhere but the mess.

Hey Griswald when were you there?   Did you fly to Thule then on to Alert?

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2004, 22:33:25 »
Even after all the hoopla?  I figure outdoors would have been negated.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline whiskey601

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 25,540
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,657
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2004, 23:19:37 »
Gris .. can you actually refuse to go for that reason alone? And if so, what do you think the repercussions would be?

Offline Scott

    - apparently an antagonist.

  • Likes fire and loud noises.
  • Chief of Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 195,225
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,851
  • El Scorcho Diablo
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2004, 23:22:25 »
No!!

But, two years ago in the Yo Yo Oilfield, Northeastern BC there was a rig hand killed almost the same way. In BC now you can't smoke anywhere but designated "cancer closets". The rig camp that this lad was staying at didn't have one so they were forces outside to smoke. One afternoon the poor chap struck a match to light his dart and was mauled almost immediately by a Grizzly. Thoughts are that Smoky was doing dumpster rounds and was startled by the rigger and decided to eat him for his sins.

I was just trying to put a humorous twist on how serious people get about the smoking/non smoking debate.
Be nice for no reason.

Offline pbi

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 52,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,961
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2004, 02:23:20 »
Folks: having been down this painful and somewhat confusing road over the last two years with the twelve or so messes we have in our Bde back home, I can tell you that there is no repeat no smoking permitted in any CF building any longer, including messes and rec centres. None. Nada. No vents, no smoking areas, no "grandfathering" for old buildings. Any mess that is still permitting smoking indoors is in violatoin of the CF policy and is risking being closed. CFS Alert may be a unique exception but I doubt it.

Our Bde Comd fenced with the "system" for a while over this issue in our Bde, especially due to pressure from those of our messes with large numbers of Associates who still had the habit. We had several "exceptions" in operation around the Bde. Finally, the new CF policy came out and ended it all. In the end, it's outdoors you go.

As a non-smoker, who hates the stink on his clothing that being around smokers leaves, I really have no sympathy. We don't encourage people to spit or piss on the floor either (well, not usually....) so I don't know exactly why we would encourage this other unsanitary and unpleasant habit either. Cheers.
The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. ...

The true measure of a man is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out...

CDNsig

  • Guest
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2004, 04:19:40 »
Pbi, I understand your feelings on smoking, and I don't know how the policy was implemented in your location, but there was certainly a lot of bad feelings generated in my last posting (Kingston) over the smoking issue in our mess. I am referring to the drinking mess only; everyone understood the reason for the ban in work areas and dining facilities (in fact, it had been that way for several years already). It was the way it was done that upset people...

   CFB Kingston brought in its smoking ban in messes 1 May 2003 if I remember correctly. The members were not consulted, which is definitely an issue when you must pay dues but have no input on policy. At a meeting, we were told the messes were going smoke free because the city of Kingston was bringing in a non smoking bylaw, and the messes had to comply. When a member brought up the fact that the mess stands on federal land, and city bylaws do not apply, there was embarrased silence from the gentleman chairing the meeting. No one in the audience knew at that time that the smoking ban in messes was going to be Forces wide as of 1 January; the base commander was basically deflecting the blame onto someone else. This piece of dishonesty was duly noted by the members...
   The mess comittee tried for a separate, ventilated room... denied...
   An outside, heated shelter... denied...
   A patio with propane heaters... denied (as a "fire hazard", funny this didn't apply to the barbeques...)
   These would have been paid for by the members out of mess funds after a vote, and would have cost the military nothing... In short, any effort to be accomodating and find a compromise was refused, so members who pay compulsory dues are forced to stand outside. This, in my opinion is wrong...

Offline pbi

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 52,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,961
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2004, 12:15:53 »
I am fully in agreement with the policy that says that no public money or resources will be spent to facilitate smoking. It is a dying habit (no pun intended...)

However, there is always the possibility that the ban on this particular habit could be unreasonably spread to include another potentially unhealthy (but currently much more acceptable...) habit: the consumption of alcohol, one that I do enjoy. I would consider this an extreme measure, but I can imagine it might be egged on by aggrieved smokers who might think: "Well, I lost the right to my habit, so you'll lose the right to yours too." A nightmare scenario perhaps.

That notwithstanding, the ban on smoking was long overdue and was only a matter of time once municipalities started to do it. Cheers.
The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. ...

The true measure of a man is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out...

Offline PPCLI Guy

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 159,950
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,267
  • It's all good
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2004, 12:20:53 »
However, there is always the possibility that the ban on this particular habit could be unreasonably spread to include another potentially unhealthy (but currently much more acceptable...) habit:

I vote for the establishment of a Designated Fat Pill Room, right next to the smoking area...
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Scott

    - apparently an antagonist.

  • Likes fire and loud noises.
  • Chief of Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 195,225
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,851
  • El Scorcho Diablo
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2004, 12:44:02 »
Currently in Alberta you can still smoke in drinking Establishments or other places that minors do not frequent, I know it's different in Edmonton but here in Grande prairie they're still pretty tolerant. Now, I do alot of work over the border into BC where you must, at a restaurant, smoke in a designated area (Cancer closet) but when you go to a nightclub that isn't equipped with such amenities you are forced to the curb. I had my first run in with this while in Kelowna working on the fires a year ago, had my beer and wanted some tar, sparked up and was forcefully removed from the establishment by the staff. After some talk I was allowed back in but NO SMOKING. Fine, I am alright with that, it's a bit hard to remember that sort of thing when you're pissed but I am still OK with it.

A place of work. We allow smoking at work in designated areas only, non smokers get whiffs, sure, but we seem to have a group of guys that aren't too militant when it comes to enforcing non smokers rights.

pbi, this might interest you, a few years ago while I was still volunteering in NS the town passed the bylaw that smoking will no longer be allowed in town buildings. This automatically applied to the Fire Dept. Today, four years later I can safely say that right now the boys are enjoying some cold draft and hot smokes while waiting for the days football games to start. Are they in violation? Of course. Should offenders be punished if caught? I guess. The way I look at that scenario is that these are not "employees", they inhabit a part of a building and normally no one form outside the Dept comes in. No harm done I say. I will state that the last time I was back there I did notice that if they had non smokers in the building that they would go to the bay floor to smoke, I think that's fair.

I didn't start smoking for the health benefits of all the vitamins in 'em, I know it's killing me and has the potential to harm those around me. But I think that if I do it in a manner to lessen the exposure of others as much as possible then there should not be a witch hunt for me and I do believe that is what alot of these campaigns turn into.

Just Thoughts
Be nice for no reason.

Offline pbi

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 52,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,961
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2004, 02:15:24 »
Scott: Volunteer firefighters (as you and I have discussed in the past) are sort of unique creatures: neither fish nor fowl, especially in those communities in the US where they are wholly unpaid. If the station is actually a kind of private club, then I guess the rules don't apply.

On the smoking ban, I am not trying to be a rectal orifice, but for me it is a pretty visceral thing. I don't allow smoking in my home, period, if my son wants to smoke he goes out on the sidewalk (I don't allow it in the garage either). At this point I'm going to drop this issue. Cheers.
The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. ...

The true measure of a man is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out...

Offline Scott

    - apparently an antagonist.

  • Likes fire and loud noises.
  • Chief of Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 195,225
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,851
  • El Scorcho Diablo
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2004, 15:58:38 »
Scott: Volunteer firefighters (as you and I have discussed in the past) are sort of unique creatures: neither fish nor fowl, especially in those communities in the US where they are wholly unpaid. If the station is actually a kind of private club, then I guess the rules don't apply.

On the smoking ban, I am not trying to be a rectal orifice, but for me it is a pretty visceral thing. I don't allow smoking in my home, period, if my son wants to smoke he goes out on the sidewalk (I don't allow it in the garage either). At this point I'm going to drop this issue. Cheers.

Good points. On both topics.
Be nice for no reason.

Release Section

  • Guest
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2004, 09:18:16 »
When I was last in Alert (97) smoking was inside ONLY.  I haven't smoked for years but seem to recall that there was a potential problem with all the spilled fuel frozen into the ground.  Is this possible?  During the dark months it could get pretty #@*! cold on the lungs. 

I don't think there have been many polar bears around the camp but lots of wolves.  I saw pictures from a Summary Investigation into a wolf killed in Alert.  The wolf bit someone for some reason.  I spent lots of time outside and had wolves come close but they never seemed aggressive. 

I wouldn't (try to) turn down a tour in Alert because you are worried about second-hand smoke.  There are lots of smoke-free places in Alert.  You don't have to expose yourself to it at all.     

Offline Griswald, DME

  • Member
  • ****
  • 220
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 111
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2004, 18:34:18 »
CFS Alert may be a unique exception but I doubt it.

Don't kid yourself man, CFS Alert absolutely *is*a unique exception.   If you've been there you know what I'm talking about.  And I highly advise anyone with an adverse reaction to inhaling cigarette smoke to find the policy out prior to being shipped there.

When I was there, just under two years ago, the policies you just wrote about were already in place at any of the bases I had been to.  But at Alert, the CO has the final word, and CFS Alert DID NOT fall under the smoking regulations that other bases did.  You could smoke anywhere you wanted except the mess.  Believe me, I hate cigarette smoke and as soon as I was home I went up the chain of command to find out.  As a result, I have letters from Ottawa reiterating the CO has the final say at Alert, and the no-smoking policy does not apply at Alert unless the CO says it does.

The fellow who asked if you can refuse, I don't know but if I end up with a posting to Alert again I'm going to find out before I go.  I know there was a guy about two years ago who kicked up a stink about it while he was there, and they basically booted him out for complaining about it.  I think he had an allergic reaction or something to the smoke.

Sidenote: Alert is actually a Station, not a Base, (hence the CFS) but they still do postings there, but they are always restricted postings.

So, anyone BEEN to Alert in the past year or so that want to kindly fill me in on if the policy has changed? I'm going to see if my unit can find out any info. for me, but if anyone's been there recently that would be the best way of finding out the true policy.

And CplForLife we stayed in Thule both on the way there and back, pretty interesting base - did you get a chance to check it out?

Offline armybuck041

  • Donor
  • Member
  • *
  • 2,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 219
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2004, 22:03:32 »
When I was last in Alert (97) smoking was inside ONLY.   I haven't smoked for years but seem to recall that there was a potential problem with all the spilled fuel frozen into the ground.   Is this possible?   During the dark months it could get pretty #@*! cold on the lungs.  

      

Yup.... you said it. Because of a very big fuel spill some years back it isn't safe to smoke outside. Because of permafrost the fuel never really completely dissapated.
Gone but never forgotten: Sgt Shane Stachnik, Killed in Action on 3 Sept 2006, Panjwaii Afghanistan

Sir Raw

  • Guest
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2004, 18:54:00 »
Latest from CFS Alert
As of 2.5 Weeks ago, the room off The Wolf Den is now the indoor smoking room with exhust fans. 

zardoz

  • Guest
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2004, 22:51:11 »
Yup.... you said it. Because of a very big fuel spill some years back it isn't safe to smoke outside. Because of permafrost the fuel never really completely dissapated.

  There have been more recent spills (large) during my tour of Alert (summer 97?) we had a wind storm with over 120 Mph winds, the resultant damage was manageable except for the "small bulk tank" down on the airfield (my guess is it was a 2000 gallon tank). Well the tank sat stil no problem... but the pumphouse shed that dispensed the fuel was torn from it's footings and the building and meter head went sailing "were not in Kansas anymore Toto"... do ya think there was a shut off valve located at the tank? NOPE! All gone! 2000 gallons of gassoline (at least) added to the allready contaminated Arctic landscape!

   During that summer tour I had to watch a wolf cub die a slow and horrible death ( disgusting display of indecision on the part of the SWO) This poor unfortunate creature was burned during a "routine" burning of the camps lumber scraps, at that point he was the last of a family of 5 that I had been keeping an eye on... one by one before my tour was over... there were NO wolves left in CFS Alert :(

  I "rode the big bird home" .. where do you think I managed to find a place to lie down once we were airborne? ... You guessed it.. on top of the "paul bunion" that contained the burned and now frozen carcass of a dead Arctic Wolf Cub, it was a very sour counterpoint to what I consider my most meaningfull 6 months in an allmost 12 year career.

   zardoz

Offline HollywoodHitman

  • "We're surrounded......Thats simplifies the problem" - Chesty Puller, USMC
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 5,657
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 662
  • Don't mistake aging for maturing
Re: Smoking policy at CFS Alert?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2004, 23:00:43 »
I vote for the establishment of a Designated Fat Pill Room, right next to the smoking area...

You must have been reading my mind. I swear!!! It's worse in the Mo....I've not quite wrapped my mind around the fact that the ones who can't walk 50m without wheezing are also the ones who smoke like chimneys and suck the grease traps at McGag & Hacks clean with a straw.
"There is no charge for awesomeness....Or Attractiveness."
                  -Kung Fu Panda

Offline GypsyPronto

  • Semper Vigilantes
  • Member
  • ****
  • 4,130
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 160
The CFS Alert Merged Thread
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2004, 21:37:55 »
Hi all, I have yet another question about the CFS Alert tour.
I was just wondering, for those of you who have been, what kind of work up training, if any, is required?
How did they prepare you for the cold?

Thanks for your help.

-KaT