Author Topic: CF Basic Parachutist - Q&A  (Read 137059 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline combat_medic

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 2,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,537
  • Mod of burninating
    • Seaforth Highlanders of Canada
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2002, 13:08:00 »
It depends on what unit/brigade/area you‘re in. Also, if you‘re in a jump-capable unit, you‘re more likely to get more positions in your unit.

As for those courses, don‘t count on getting them for quite a while. The priority goes to people who‘ve been waiting the longest, have the best PT, and best parade attendance. Try to get a few other QL4s first; some that are more readily available

- machine gunner
- comms
- driver wheeled

The more experienced you are, the better chance you‘ll get the cool courses. Also, work on PT as hard as possible.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline Doug

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 142
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 345
  • Paratrooper
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2002, 06:56:00 »
Obviously you have to be nominated for the course in the first place.  There has to be a reason to nominate you.  Of course being fit doesn‘t hurt at all, and having a good attitude.  In the Regs, if your checked out (or just lucky) you could score both courses in your first year.  In the Res....good luck, you‘ll have to put in some serious time and show that you‘re dedicated.  There are far too many factors contributing to a successful course loading, just play it by ear.  Everyone wants the "cool" courses.
Every man dies, not every man truely lives...

Offline SpinDoc

  • Member
  • ****
  • -15
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 148
  • Reservist
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2002, 10:43:00 »
It‘s probably kinda like how all the civilian kids who recruiters talk to want to be "snipers"    :D  

But seriously though, in the Reserves, you have to a) be proactive in managing your army career, making sure your chain of command knows your aspirations (but be realistic); learn to walk before you run.  Never be "gimme gimme"
and b) demonstrate using what little time on parade nights and training weekends that you are "worth" it.  It‘s like being nominated for PLQ - it‘s a couple of thousand bucks gone from the unit coffer if the corporal decides "you know what, I don‘t think this is for me afterall... I don‘t mind staying a corporal" midway through the course and withdrawals from the course.  So, for para and recce nominations, somebody has to think you‘re worth it, b/c it‘s $$$.

Offline WB

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 23,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,273
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2002, 11:11:00 »
i‘ll keep that in mind, thanks for the info. i‘ll take a look into machine gunner, comms, and driver wheeled. are there any other courses that could be used as "stepping stones" to recce or para? what about DZ/LZ controller (i think thats what its called)? are leadership courses also an asset?

what about high school or college courses? would something like geography or political science help in any way?

Offline combat_medic

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 2,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,537
  • Mod of burninating
    • Seaforth Highlanders of Canada
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2002, 12:32:00 »
You need basic para before you can get LZ/DZ. Also, the chances of you getting LZ as a reservist are incredibly slim. In my unit (res infantry) there are probably a dozen guys with basic para, a couple with reg force recce, and NONE with LZ. Also, many of the guys with para and/or recce got it from previous reg force service. Yes, leadership courses would also be an asset.

Make sure that your PT is far above and beyond what‘s required. If the basic para test wants you to do 7 chin ups (underhand, straight-armed, full extension), you should be doing 10+. Also, if you volunteer for a tour, you may be able to get some extra "cool" courses: AVGP (armoured vehicle general purpose), driver tracked, or LAV III.

Oh, and I‘m not sure if anyone told you this, but a Recce course is very physically strenuous!!! Think about walking around for 5-6 weeks with little sleep and little food with a 100+ pounds of gear. It‘s not really as glamorous as people imagine.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline Recce41

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • -75
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 817
  • Yes, I'm a prick! What about it!
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2002, 16:18:00 »
First off you don‘t need to be Para, to get the DZ Controlers course. Its recommended though. The Army is in a change phase. It is going all Recce. The Tanks are going, the Armour Recce Troop in Gagetown is doubling, the 6A/6Bs for armour will be Recce. The inf are also changing, all mounted Recce will be done the the Armour school, and 60% dismount will be through the Inf school. The rest will be done as a common course for Armour,Inf,Eng. The new DP system will have Armour/Inf trades common, IE Coyote/Lav Gunner, Veh C/C will be done through the Armour School, Pathfinder, DZLZ will be done in Trenton, Tow, 60% dismounted Recce Inf School.
 So in a way you get what you ask for.
Canadian Decoration,Chief of Defence Staff Commandation.Bold and Swift/Airborne

Offline WB

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 23,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,273
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2002, 16:29:00 »
oh yeah, i‘m going for reg force. hopefully i‘ll be sent to 3 RCR.

Offline portcullisguy

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • -205
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 564
  • Border Services Officer
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2002, 01:29:00 »
This talk of snipers which pops up here and there from time to time got me thinking...

I am reading a book on Stalingrad right now (great book -- Stalingrad, The Fateful Seige: 1942-1943, by Antony Beevor.. think "Enemy at the Gates"), and they mention several times about the "sniper cult" that formed in the Red Army.  The propaganda machine made heroes out of the best snipers, and they had running competitions for the highest kills.

That‘s all grand... in 1942.

But I fear modern snipers have far less targets and vastly different scenes and landscapes in which to carry out their task.  I imagine much of the time spent in the field in very boring.  Days or weeks in one place, one hide or OP, waiting for a brief moment when a particular target may or may not appear.

I am glad that Canadian snipers in Afghanistan distinguished themselves so well - even earning the longest recorded kill.  It really is still a team effort, however, since no sniper works alone.  In short, I don‘t think being a sniper is what the kids who show up in the recruiters office imagine it to be.
portcullisguy

non dormiverit gladius meus - dileas gu brath

48 Highrs

PTE Gruending

  • Guest
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2002, 01:44:00 »
Speaking about sniper "glamour"; I remember an instructor on course talking about some American Army sniper in Vietnam taking 2-3 days to cross a 300M grass field under enemy observation. Talk about patience!

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 264,246
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,251
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2002, 01:54:00 »
I‘d either have to eat or use the washroom.
Thats brutal
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline SpinDoc

  • Member
  • ****
  • -15
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 148
  • Reservist
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2002, 10:02:00 »
And don‘t forget the bugs... the bugs!  I remember the bugs feasting away at my leg and my butt through my combats when I was lying prone in an ambush...

Lying still without scratching, now there‘s a feat.  :D

Wilson601

  • Guest
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2002, 13:32:00 »
Speaking of Recce,
My reserve unit is changing designation from Light Infantry to Recce  (new CO.. Lt.Col Bell? i heard he‘s a recce god from PPCLI?) anyways...they slotted a few guys from each coy to take this new and improve recce course.... wonderin if anybody knew anything about it...the course or Lt.Col Bell.  :skull:   Thanks
Shane

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 264,246
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,251
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2002, 15:19:00 »
I haven‘t seen many Light Colonels on recces in my short time

j/k
There are no wolves on Fenris

silentseaforthsoldier

  • Guest
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2002, 01:40:00 »
i‘m taking basic para with cdts this summer...there‘s a pride and ego that goes with the airborne being the best and elite and all...i don‘t think that recce has that

Wilson601

  • Guest
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2002, 10:27:00 »
Well your not Recce, or Airborne so how do you know? I know a man who spent his life THE airborne. I also know a man who spent his life in 2 RCR recce Pl. and i know a man who will retire next year as a Cpl. in the Reserves, 25 years in Light Infantry.

All 3 of there men are proud of what they do, proud of where they are and the lowly Reserve Cpl. doesn‘t need jump wings to feel proud.

Good luck on your Cadet Jump Course  :skull:

Offline Recce41

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • -75
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 817
  • Yes, I'm a prick! What about it!
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2002, 11:48:00 »
To be Airborne/Para, you are a breed apart. You have passed one of the hardest courses in any military. The few courses that pass that are Pathfinder, Cbt Diver, (US) Ranger, etc. As a jumper you are in the Brotherhood of the Para.      For me there are people that have passed,tryed and failed and those who are too scared to try, and those are the ones that will knock that you are a Jumper. I have 300 static and 50 FF, done the Airborne indoc(9 Days of ****  ,for a coin). I have served with some of the best the forces can give, for they are not just soldiers, they are fellow soldiers that have overcome fear.  For if you always see for every Airborne book, film, doc if always states Band of Brothers. It does not matter if your Inf, Armour or Loggy, you are a "JUMPER".
 It means Pride, and those wings will show it. Good luck Seaforth, even though your a Cadet. Two of my Daughter got their Mock Tower Wings in Petawawa, even those a Cadet can be proud of.
Canadian Decoration,Chief of Defence Staff Commandation.Bold and Swift/Airborne

spacemarine

  • Guest
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2003, 21:50:00 »
"2893 RCACC Seaforth 3 Plt. WO", you aren‘t a jumper yet. Remember, you still have to compete for a slot on the course, then pass the pre course, then pass the course and get your five jumps. Alot of cadets who talk the talk about para never seem to get their wings. In any case, good luck.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 264,246
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,251
Re: Recce and Para courses
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2003, 22:54:00 »
On the other side of the fence i‘ve seen some pretty ‘colourful‘ characters get their jump wings then proceed to act like it makes them a super soldier and then condisend (sp?) other soldiers. Unfortinuatly i‘ve only seen this in the reserves.
Theres a lot of spirit and pride with having a jump course but if you don‘t have any humility it makes for interesting results.
There are no wolves on Fenris

LowRider

  • Guest
Basic Para course
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2004, 13:39:13 »
Hey fellas,just wanted to know if anyone has gone through the basic para course in Trenton?
I have the oppurtunity to go,and i was wondering how difficult the training is.

Thanks.

Shulaev

  • Guest
Re: Basic Para course
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2004, 14:05:07 »
how long did you wait Lowrider before you applied yourself to the jumpcourse , i'll be with the ppcli so im just wondering

Offline 2FtOnion

  • Member
  • ****
  • 20
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 114
  • US Marine
Re: Basic Para course
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2004, 14:26:40 »
I did watch the Truth Duty Valor video on the Canadain Para course, and the US Army Para course on Discovery, they looked pretty similar but watching the TDV video, it looked like the soldiers were jumping from a civilian plane??? Could anyone comment
« Last Edit: September 30, 2004, 14:38:09 by 2FtOnion »
Engineers build the world  
EE

Offline DOOG

  • OPS GUY
  • New Member
  • **
  • 0
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 42
Re: Basic Para course
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2004, 14:40:47 »
2FtOnion..
The Canadian Parachute Centre does indeed contract out some flying to civilian operators. A skydiving aircraft operator from North Carolina supplies the CPC with aircraft quite regularly. I know because we deal with the same people and have jumped from the same aircraft in my after work passtime. I don't know if they use them for static line stuff though. Did the picture you saw show freefall parachutists?

Offline alexk

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 670
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 99
Re: Basic Para course
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2004, 15:25:45 »
its still static line jumpers

the reason we keep out contracting is because we dont have enough working C-130's to do that

Offline PPCLI Guy

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 159,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,256
  • It's all good
Re: Basic Para course
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2004, 16:32:43 »
Quote
it looked like the soldiers were jumping from a civilian plane??? Could anyone comment

The AF is madated to provide a certain number of Herc hours in support of Basic Parachute Training.  Due to optempo, they have ben unable to meet the demand.  For a while last year candidates on the Basic Para were returning to their units unqualifed, as the standard stated that a minimum of one jump had to be out of a Herc (the remaining jumps were from contracted civvie air).  Soldiers would complete the final jump whenever aircraft were available - and the TD expense was charged to the unit.  This was an extremely inefficient way to train soldiers.  Late last year the standard was changed, and now soldiers can earn their basic para qual completey from civvie aircraft.

We tried to have the AF pay for the civvie air (after all, they were unable to complete a mandated task that they were funded for (parts, POL etc) but didn't get anywhere.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline excoelis

  • Member
  • ****
  • 80
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 141
  • Infantry
Re: Basic Para course
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2004, 18:51:54 »
The A/C is a Casa 212 and the Twin Otter is used on occasion.

The Casa has been rigged with an anchor line cable for the dispatch of up to 12 Full eqpt Static line jumpers hooked up on the stbd side and departing via the center of the ramp.

Mil Freefall Para can fit up to 22 jumpers.

The biggest benefit by far is the basic para getting J-stage out off the way in a coupla days, and Mil Freefall candidates can amass 50 plus jumps in a couple of weeks, weather permitting of course.

The pilots are outstanding guys - very accomodating with our plans, and the turn around is incredibly fast.  Definitely 'bang for our buck'.

Tho only downfall to this choice of platform is realism, but IMHO the end justifies the means when used as a qualifying and currency platform.  The troops get the Hercules CC130 (full eqpt night jumps etc) with their units by way of BTATs, TATEXs, J-TATs, ConPara, etc.....
"Ability is what youâ Ëœre capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it."