Author Topic: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread  (Read 584159 times)

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Offline Altair

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1625 on: January 23, 2018, 16:19:58 »
No one can say they weren't warned.  For those who supported the liberal party, as you write your cheque to the exchequer this coming March, ask yourself one simple question: 'was anyone but Harper' worth 2000 dollars?
I get 6000 dollars from the government every year from the CCB, ,  so net profit for me.

I'm guessing the fraser institute didn't factor that in.
An interesting article in today's NP by Andrew Coyne, pointing out some very serious long term weakness in Canada's economic foundations. High taxes, energy prices and barriers to investment by both the Federal and Provincial governments are starving Canadian business of investment capital, and the government has been less than  stellar in handling free trade or increasing trade with the US, China or the TPP. Fun article here: http://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-an-attractive-place-to-invest-are-you-serious-prime-minister

The conclusions are very sobering.
Also,  TPP is a go.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 16:25:40 by Altair »
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline YZT580

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1626 on: January 23, 2018, 17:18:26 »
You are one of the lucky few.  My hit is 1400.

Offline pbi

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1627 on: January 24, 2018, 18:19:09 »
I'm one of those people who voted for this Govt. I did it after a lifetime of voting Tory (and years of serving under both parties), and the decision was not an easy one.   I had two primary reasons:

-IMHO all Canadian governments begin to go stale, and then start rotting in their second term. It may be due to inherent failures in our system, but I'm not sure.This rot is characterized by arrogance, secrecy, duplicity and, too often, evidence of petty corruption. I felt that the Tories were beginning to get stinky on all counts; and

-Despite the fact that Harper was himself quite a pragmatic and moderate politician, I sensed that the party was drifting rightward at a steady pace. I don't like "The Right" anymore than I like "The Left". People who choose to define their understanding of the world through bumper-sticker thinking are irritating and possibly dangerous. The Tories, I thought (and particularly during their internal leadership campaign) were beginning to show increasing signs of a tilt towards a brand of social conservatism that I don't like and don't want.

I had some nascent misgivings about our PM, but I decided to cast my vote for the Liberals. Since that day, I have become increasingly disillusioned with him, and with some of the hideously bad ideas and policies which they have come up with. I'm sure some members are smirking and saying "Dumbass..told ya so!", but maybe that assumes I didn't think about my choice.

I'm particularly concerned by two issues: what appears to be a terrible mishandling of our NAFTA approach to the US; and this recent business about funding for summer jobs programs. On the first, while I believe we have every right (and duty) to stand up to Trump and his gang of Nativists/Isolationists and not give in to US bully tactics, the Govt must remember that we are a trading nation, primarily with the US. If that gets arsed up, many Canadians will suffer (even ones who think they hate Free Trade). I'm not confident here, at all.

On the second one, the Govt is doing something on ideological lines which, if the Tories were to have done it, the Liberals would have screamed the House down. It is setting a terrible and dangerous precedent. Govt funding may be susceptible to party politics in any nation, but I find this policy to be very short sighted. Don't get me wrong: I'm the farthest thing from a religious fundamentalist, and I am still somewhat ambivalent about abortions, but to deny funding on the grounds the Govt has laid down is wrong. It may bite them quite badly, especially amongst the considerable Catholic part of their constituency.

I will try to keep an open mind, but the way things are going if the Tories sort themselves out and can become more like the good old "Red Tories" of PCP days, and able to avoid the temptation of courting extreme social conservatives, they will probably get my vote next time around. Damn, I even thought that Kellie Leitch made a bit of sense, now and then :D :D




« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 18:24:31 by pbi »
The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. ...

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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1628 on: January 25, 2018, 21:02:14 »
While companies can spin it in many different ways, the end result is they move to where their ROI is greater:

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/24/Campbell-Soup-to-close-Toronto-plant-move-production-to-US/4881516853596/

Quote
Campbell Soup to close Toronto plant, move production to U.S.
By Ray Downs  |  Jan. 24, 2018 at 11:35 PM

Jan. 24 (UPI) -- The Campbell Soup Company announced Wednesday that it will shut down its Toronto plant and move operations to its three U.S. factories.

The move will result in nearly 400 lost manufacturing jobs at the plant, which has been in operation since 1931. The Toronto plant will be closed in phases over the next 18 months and production moved to Maxton, N.C.; Napolean, Ohio; and Paris, Texas.

Mark Alexander, the president of Americas Simple Meals and Beverages, Campbell's parent company, said the closing was "a difficult one" that was "the best course of action for our business."

"We are operating in an increasingly challenging environment as our industry's consumer and retail landscapes continue to change dramatically," he said in a statement.

Ana Dominguez, president of Campbell's operations in Canada, told the Toronto Star that one reason for the closing is the company has too much soup and not enough customers.

"Simply put, we are in a situation where we can produce a lot more soup than we can sell," she said.

With slow soup sales, the amount of jobs created in the three U.S. factories will be "minimal," company spokesman Thomas Hushen told Bloomberg.

Toronto City Councillor said the plant closing is "devastating news for our community.

"Campbell's has employed generations of residents in Etobicoke-Lakeshore," Grimes said in a statement. "I personally have many close, personal friends who work at this facility. I am truly saddened to hear this news, and want to extend my sympathies to all the employees and families that will be affected by this closure."
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1629 on: January 26, 2018, 09:37:11 »
The Prime Minister's reactions to US tax cuts and how to remain competitive given the rapidly changing economic environment south of our border is.....curious. The National Post article discusses his speech at Davros and some analysis by Jack Mintz, a tax expert from the University of Calgary. The prognosis is not good (especially when you also consider the US is kicking off gigantic production gains with high quality shale oil, which is very "sweet" and easy to process, putting our already hamstrung oil industry at risk as well).

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/john-ivison-trudeaus-davos-man-message-cant-hold-back-the-flow-of-capital-from-private-corporations
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1630 on: January 26, 2018, 10:23:45 »
Quote
Campbell Soup to close Toronto plant, move production to U.S.

Joining:

1.  Kellogg's London officially ends cereal production 23 Dec 14, - 500 jobs. All Kellogg products sold in Canada are from the USA, except Mini-Wheats cereal plant in Belleville, Ont

2.  Heinz ceased operations in Leamington in June 14. -1000 jobs.

3. Kraft Foods,  St. Marys, Ontario, Canada. 2015  - 214 jobs.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/kellogg-to-close-london-ont-plant-next-year/article15840106/

The province (Ontario) has shed more than 33,000 jobs in the factory sector in the past 12 months (2013)
Never Congratulate Yourself In Victory, Nor Blame Your Horses In Defeat - Old Cossack Expression

Offline Altair

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1631 on: January 26, 2018, 10:40:43 »
Joining:

1.  Kellogg's London officially ends cereal production 23 Dec 14, - 500 jobs. All Kellogg products sold in Canada are from the USA, except Mini-Wheats cereal plant in Belleville, Ont

2.  Heinz ceased operations in Leamington in June 14. -1000 jobs.

3. Kraft Foods,  St. Marys, Ontario, Canada. 2015  - 214 jobs.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/kellogg-to-close-london-ont-plant-next-year/article15840106/

The province (Ontario) has shed more than 33,000 jobs in the factory sector in the past 12 months (2013)
Wouldn't worry too much about ontario.

It simply appears that the economy is adjusting to a post auto industry

https://globalnews.ca/news/3949024/canada-unemployment-rates-breakdown-by-province/

Quote
Ontario experienced a small decrease in unemployment by approximately 0.9 percentage points, to 5.5 per cent. However, Ontario saw an increase of employment rates by almost three per cent in 2017, which is more than double the province’s growth rate in each of the previous two years, with an additional 176,000 people employed by year end.

The primary industries that saw increases include wholesale and retail trade, manufacturing, professional, scientific and technical services, and transportation and warehousing.

It's better to look at the big picture here.

Quebec and BC are also doing pretty well.
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1632 on: January 26, 2018, 12:43:57 »
Wouldn't worry too much about ontario.

It simply appears that the economy is adjusting to a post auto industry

https://globalnews.ca/news/3949024/canada-unemployment-rates-breakdown-by-province/

It's better to look at the big picture here.

Quebec and BC are also doing pretty well.

Since those jobs didn't go anywhere else in Canada, Canada also lost the jobs, so it should concern you...and other Canadians.  Notwithstanding Ontario being turned into a "Have-Not" province by the cumulative effect of 'befuddled' provincial governmental policies, particularly as related to exponentially rising consumer and producer costs (Wynnelectricity, etc.), loss of jobs out of Ontario (and Canada) will make it "Have-Notter" and reduce Canada's GDP, neither are good things, n'est-ce pas?

Regards
G2G

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1633 on: January 26, 2018, 16:01:24 »
Worrying about Ontario may be like worrying about the band's playlist on the Titanic. Jack Mintz has a fuller explanation of how US Tax cuts will affect Canada, and what actually needs to be done. The full article will be posted in the long articles section:

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/jack-mintz-if-trudeau-ever-accepts-reality-heres-how-he-can-save-canadas-competitiveness

https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,127262.0.html
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline pbi

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1634 on: January 26, 2018, 17:48:23 »
The Prime Minister's reactions to US tax cuts and how to remain competitive given the rapidly changing economic environment south of our border is.....curious. The National Post article discusses his speech at Davros and some analysis by Jack Mintz, a tax expert from the University of Calgary. The prognosis is not good (especially when you also consider the US is kicking off gigantic production gains with high quality shale oil, which is very "sweet" and easy to process, putting our already hamstrung oil industry at risk as well).

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/john-ivison-trudeaus-davos-man-message-cant-hold-back-the-flow-of-capital-from-private-corporations

I'm not really sure he has grasped the reality of what is happening. Like I said elsewhere, I was reticent when I voted Liberal, but now I'm worried.  They seem to be at a loss when it comes to the economy. Perhaps he forgets that poor countries usually aren't very socially progressive. It's normally the other way around. They accused the Tories oif ideologically based decision making but I think I'm seeing a bit too much of it just now.
The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. ...

The true measure of a man is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out...

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1635 on: February 09, 2018, 12:37:05 »
I note that Stats Canada reported today that over 100k part time jobs were lost in Jan 18. If only there was some correlating explanation...  ::)


Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1636 on: March 01, 2018, 19:59:39 »
Too bad everyone focuses on the number of jobs.  What would be more useful is to know the net compensation gain or loss, since there is not one universal wage / salary.
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Offline Piece of Cake

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1637 on: March 02, 2018, 01:00:10 »
I note that Stats Canada reported today that over 100k part time jobs were lost in Jan 18. If only there was some correlating explanation...  ::)

The number 14 comes to mind  :whistle:

« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 01:34:31 by Piece of Cake »
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Making Canada Relevant Again- The Economic Super-Thread
« Reply #1638 on: April 03, 2018, 13:06:03 »
US tax reform and the general expansion of the US economy is drawing Canadian investment dollars south, to such an extent that the CEO of RBC is urging the government to clamp down on investment outflows. Now I personally think this is counterproductive, since resources should flow to where they can maximize returns and if the Liberals are going to choke Canada's economy, investors need to have a place to go. (It is also counterproductive because idle capital in Canada generates no returns or tax revenues either).

http://www.baystreet.ca/articles/economiccommentary/37709/Cross-Border-Investments-Gathering-Steam-RBC

Quote
Cross-Border Investments Gathering Steam: RBC

The man who runs one of Canada's largest banks is urging the Trudeau government to slow the rate investment capital from this country to the United States — because, he warns, it's already leaving in "real time."

RBC CEO Dave McKay discussed some of his biggest concerns about Canadian competitiveness, particularly those related to recent U.S. tax reforms. Ottawa has come under pressure from corporate Canada to respond to a U.S. tax overhaul that's expected to lure business investments south of the border.

McKay tells various media outlets that a "significant" investment exodus to the U.S. is already underway, especially in the energy and clean-technology sectors.

The flight of capital, McKay added, will likely be followed by a loss of talent, which means the next generation of engineers, problem solvers and intellectual property could be created not north of the border, but south of it instead.

"We would certainly encourage the federal government to look at these issues because, in real time, we're seeing capital flow out of the country," McKay said.


Since the election of U.S. President Donald Trump, Canada's investment landscape has been dealing with trade nerves related the ongoing renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement.

But many point to Trump's recent U.S. tax measures as potentially more dangerous, fearing that dramatic corporate tax cuts in the U.S. will eliminate Canada's advantage.

McKay adds Canada's competitiveness challenges go beyond the high-level, tax-rate changes in the U.S. bill.

For instance, he pointed to another important element he said is encouraging capital to flow out of Canada — a change that enables U.S. companies to immediately write off the full cost of new machinery and equipment.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.