Author Topic: HMCS Chicoutimi {MERGED}  (Read 74375 times)

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Offline Bograt

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HMCS Chicoutimi {MERGED}
« on: October 05, 2004, 12:29:57 »
Last Updated Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:22:06 EDT
HALIFAX - A rescue effort is underway off of the west coast of Ireland after a Canadian military submarine with 56 people on board issued a distress call Tuesday.

Military officials in Halifax said a fire broke out on HMCS Chicoutimi about 425 kilometres west of Ireland, but has since been extinguished.
  
The sub surfaced and sent out a distress call at about 10:15 EDT. Emergency officials at Clyde responded.

Later the submarine sent out another message saying the fire was out, but the vessel needed a tug to the nearest port.

HMCS Chicoutimi, the latest addition to Canada's submarine fleet, was one of four Victoria-class submarines purchased from the British navy.

It left the Faslane base in Scotland on Saturday, and was expected to arrive in Halifax on Oct. 18.

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Offline canuck101

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Stranded Canadian sub awaits Atlantic rescue
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2004, 15:04:01 »
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1096991616876_92400816?hub=topstories

My best wishes go to the families of the sailors of the Sub hoping everythings goes there way.

Offline Alex252

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2004, 15:31:11 »
This is embarrasing and a waste of the taxpayers money!!!!!! We should worry about subs after we restructure the Army, Airforce and Navy. Id also like to send my best wishes to the crew
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2004, 15:37:43 »
This is embarrasing and a waste of the taxpayers money!!!!!! We should worry about subs after we restructure the Army, Airforce and Navy.

Any chance that you are going to substantiate that?

Quote
Id also like to send my best wishes to the crew

Uhuh
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2004, 15:42:07 »
 Ummm yeah considering subs are part of a balanced navy.  ::)
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Offline Alex252

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2004, 15:45:35 »


Any chance that you are going to substantiate that?


I mean is we should really worry about subs later untill we have
a) proper funding for the CF
b) have enough money to buy new subs
I dont know the actuall cost i admit but i know these used subs have cost enormus amounts for rapairs when that money couldve been used to help hati out or something
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2004, 15:53:51 »
Alex before you bite off more then you can chew:
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,19630.0.html

Quote
I mean is we should really worry about subs later untill we have
a) proper funding for the CF
b) have enough money to buy new subs
I dont know the actuall cost i admit but i know these used subs have cost enormus amounts for rapairs when that money couldve been used to help hati out or something

a) Do you expect that any time soon?
b) see (a)...you actually think the Government would cough up the money for new subs?
As for helping out Haiti how is that helping in anyway our capabilities?
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
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Offline Alex252

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2004, 16:06:32 »
Alright alright i see what you mean ex but it gets me mad when i see all the work put into these things and then have them catch on fire
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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2004, 16:10:06 »
Doesn't make any of us happy but bare in mind when the CPFs first entered canadian service they were utter pieces of crap! Now look how well regarded they are.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
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Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2004, 16:10:14 »
ReeeHhheeeeHHHEEAAALLLYY,

Quote
"This is something that our professional mariners are capable and good at managing."

Well, not to say that our submariners aren't trained well enough to handle the problem, and of course a fire on a SUBMARINE is more dangerous even than on a surface ship. But still, howcome they couldn't put out the fire if it started in an electrical panel? I suppose it's too early to speculate at anything but it's just sort of surprising it could be put of of commission by a fire so quickly and easily...

What the heck would happen if they were actually defending our borders against an enemy naval force? They would be sitting ducks! They'd probably already be hit!... This sub, as was mentioned also, hasn't been "modernized" yet so the equipment on board was probably not in good/great service.

I just hope those folks are okay and that they get on solid land ASAP! Glad it happened beside THE Commonwealth nation too...

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Offline JasonH

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2004, 16:14:12 »
You missed the fact that they did put out the fire  :P
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2004, 16:18:34 »
Quote
Well, not to say that our submariners aren't trained well enough to handle the problem, and of course a fire on a SUBMARINE is more dangerous even than on a surface ship. But still, howcome they couldn't put out the fire if it started in an electrical panel? I suppose it's too early to speculate at anything but it's just sort of surprising it could be put of of commission by a fire so quickly and easily...
Well they are diesel electric submarines which means they are powered by electricity from the subs batteries. If there is no electricity there is no power. Shutting down the power is done so they don't run the risk of destroying the battery and the oft change of producing chlorine gas if exposed to seawater.

Quote
What the heck would happen if they were actually defending our borders against an enemy naval force? They would be sitting ducks! They'd probably already be hit!... This sub, as was mentioned also, hasn't been "modernized" yet so the equipment on board was probably not in good/great service.
what does this have to do with the fire onboard. Any mechanical casualty through enemy action or mechanical failure during wartime runs the risk of having the sub detected and sunk.

I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
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Offline Inch

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2004, 16:46:06 »
what does this have to do with the fire onboard. Any mechanical casualty through enemy action or mechanical failure during wartime runs the risk of having the sub detected and sunk.

Just to add to your point Ex.

Every machine that's ever been built by man runs the risk of mechanical break down, and yes, if it happens during armed conflict, you're probably going to get sunk, shot down or blown up. That's the nature of the beast. All we can do as fallible humans is to try to reduce the risk of being casualties by having, and practicing, proper training and preparation.

Joe, have you ever seen the video of the Apache helicopter that got engulfed in flames during a hot refuel? A hot refuel means that the refueling is done with the engines running, the reasoning for this is because a shutdown, fueling, and a start can take 30-45 minutes, a hot refuel can be done in about 10 min.   Within a second or two, the entire cockpit and most of the helo was engulfed in flames, the guys managed to get out but they were badly burned in most places.  

The point is that your world can go to hell in a hand basket so fast that all you can do try to salvage what you can. That sub could have sunk if the fire spread through the sub, it's the crew's quick reaction that prevented a disaster. I say kudos to the crew for a quick reaction thus preventing the loss of a sub and it's company.

Cheers
« Last Edit: October 07, 2004, 16:45:16 by Inch »
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Offline CheersShag

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2004, 17:37:57 »
Ex made an excellent point regarding the CPF's.
Didn't see my dad for a year straight because those things were "Crap" then.

I say it's better the problems occur now than when they are running in a crisis or on patrol, or conducting some kind of actual task.

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Re: Fire breaks out on HMCS Chicoutimi
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2004, 19:26:19 »
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Big Bad John

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HMCS Chicoutimi
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2004, 19:42:09 »
Stranded Canadian sub awaits Atlantic rescue
CTV.ca News Staff

One of Canada's troubled submarine fleet is stranded off the coast of Ireland, awaiting rescue after losing power when a fire broke out on board.

HMCS Chicoutimi, a diesel-electric patrolling sub, reported a fire in an electrical panel on Tuesday at around 11:15 AT. The fire was extinguished within minutes, but the vessel had already filled with smoke.

Briefing reporters in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canadian navy Commodore Tyrone Pile said the submarine had been scheduled for an "extended running period at sea" when it encountered the problem.

"This is a small setback," the commander of Canadian Fleet Atlantic said. "We're going to deal with the fire, find out what caused the problem, and get Chicoutimi over here to continue with the program."

Before that can happen, however, Pile said the now powerless sub must be rescued.

"We're taking this problem seriously, and our desire is to get that submarine and crew back to a safe port to effect repairs as soon as possible."

Britain's Royal Navy has dispatched a helicopter and a maintenance vessel to assist the stranded sub as it bobs in six-metre seas some 230 kilometres from Londonderry, Ireland. Two frigates have also been sent to the scene.

Answering reporters' questions in Ottawa, Defence Minister Bill Graham said the vessel could be waiting between 14 and 18 hours if it can't establish its own power before help arrives.

Without power, the crew is in for a rough night. The sea will knock the sub around, and there won't be any heat onboard.

"It is obviously not desirable to be without power on board," Graham conceded before sounding a more positive note. "They are a terrific crew, they're very professional, and they're managing the situation very, very well."

Although the cause of the fire and the extent of damage on board the vessel remains unclear, Graham said he has learned nine crew members suffered minor injuries.

"Nine of our personnel suffered smoke inhalation... I can assure you that is the only damage, those are the only injuries."

The outstanding questions, Graham added, will be answered in an inquiry into the incident.

The Canadian navy only recently took possession of the Chicoutimi along with three other Victoria-class submarines from the British navy.

A renaming ceremony was held just this past Saturday in Scotland, as the submarine changed its name from HMS Upholder to HMCS Chicoutimi.

As Pile explained, it was yet to undergo the "Canadianization work period" that would retrofit the vessel for full service in Canada's fleet.

The Chicoutimi was on its way to Canada and was due to arrive in Halifax harbour Oct. 18.

Another of the submarines bought at the same time, HMCS Victoria, is currently testing its torpedo system on the West Coast. A third vessel, HMCS Corner Brook, is undergoing work in Halifax. The fourth craft is HMCS Windsor.

The incident is just the latest in a string of embarrassing setbacks for the Canadian military surrounding the used subs, which Ottawa bought from Britain at a cost of $750 million.

The submarines were built in the late 1980s and early 1990s, but the British navy mothballed them in 1994, when they decided to go with an all-nuclear submarine force.

Canada agreed to buy the vessels in 1998 to replace three Oberon class boats. But shortly after Canada took possession, cracks were found in key valves on the subs.

Despite their record, Graham defended the decision to procure the undersea fleet.

"From every point of view these are very, very useful tools for Canada," he told reporters, dismissing suggestions they were simply substandard bargains. "These are very expensive pieces of equipment, and these were acquired at a very reasonable price."

As for the fire, Graham said it could happen to any vessel.

"This is something that our professional mariners are capable and good at managing."

Repairs and tests to certify the boats are safe to dive took longer than expected, putting the "Canadianization process" about three years behind schedule.


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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2004, 19:45:33 »
As a civilian and a taxpayer, I'm happy with these subs. I know the Australians have had a lot of trouble with their Collins class subs; submarines are very complex pieces of machinery. I think once the Victoria class boats have been updated with American fire control s/w (taken from our old submarines) and Canadian sonar equipment, they will be worth more than what we paid for them! The navy needs modern subs and we got a good deal...it just surprises me that the Liberals actually bought them!   :o

Richard

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2004, 21:30:19 »
Hang tough guys ... our thoughts are with you.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2004, 23:37:54 by whiskey 601 »

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2004, 22:04:04 »
All right Whiskey, thats TWO beers you owe me, didn't anybody mention the " no Jack Layton" story theory to you?
These things happen, just get back safe, gentlemen.
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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2004, 22:22:41 »
This is embarrasing and a waste of the taxpayers money!!!!!! We should worry about subs after we restructure the Army, Airforce and Navy. Id also like to send my best wishes to the crew

Mate, pisss off the politics, and let the dust settle before you make such silly comments. we should be more concerned about the crew, and their welfare.
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Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2004, 22:40:14 »
Quote
we should be more concerned about the crew, and their welfare.

Well said. People always rush to comment on the equipment, "its a lemon", and very rarely do people actually ask about the welfare of the crew(s).
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Offline Alex252

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2004, 23:09:30 »
Ive got a question, may seem a little dumb but if a sub has no power how does the thing stay afloat? Also it said on the news something like a tug was coming to get them. What are they doing about the smoke inhalation victims?
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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2004, 00:15:52 »
Buoyancy:  the tendency of a body to float or to rise when submerged in a fluid.
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Offline YukonJack

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Re: Fire breaks out on Canadian submarine
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2004, 10:55:41 »

Well they are diesel electric submarines which means they are powered by electricity from the subs batteries. If there is no electricity there is no power. Shutting down the power is done so they don't run the risk of destroying the battery and the oft change of producing chlorine gas if exposed to seawater.


what does this have to do with the fire onboard. Any mechanical casualty through enemy action or mechanical failure during wartime runs the risk of having the sub detected and sunk.



Sorry Ex, that diesel/electric thing means they run on batteries submerged at depth, diesel engines at snorkle depth and either batteries or diesel on the surface. At any rate, it must've been a fire in a pretty vital spot, to leave them with no propulsion either diesel or electric.
Must've been spooky for them too, knowing the peridite coating inside is toxic at off-gassing temps of only 200 degrees. Plus, we have to remember a relatively small fire on a boat can produce very lethal gases in short order. There's lots of PVC, Hydrocarbons, paints ect. I would not have wanted to go through that, and my hat's off to those guys for doing what they do.

For Alex252, they blow water out of tanks with high pressure air. When the water goes out, the boat rises. When they want to submerge, they let water into the tanks. The HP air is held in big bejesus bottles, and without power, they'd only get the use of the air in the bottles, as they would not be able to run the compressors to fill them back up.