Author Topic: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's  (Read 33943 times)

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Offline noneck

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Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« on: December 13, 2004, 22:09:44 »
Has anyone heard of this? I have been in contact with the organizers and they state that the wings are official and are authorized for wear.

http://pathfinder.twilightsociety.com/basictraining.html

Here is the website for the training facility:
http://pct.absolutions.nl/content/opleidingen/militair.asp?PAG=PG1&LNG=EN

Would this be worthwhile training?

Noneck

Offline JP

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Re: Dutch Army Jump Course Open to Canadians at Paracentrum Texel
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2004, 08:45:54 »
The course is good depending on the instructors and the group you go with. There are several organizations that run these courses.
I did the course this year with the ABMP (www.abmp.ca or www.abmp.freeserve.co.uk)
The training is very basic. You are expected to be in shape, and not be a punter.
Some ground work and then 5 jumps. There is the chance that you won't be able to jump due to weather, so you should be prepared for that. Amsterdam isn't that far away! In fact, nothing is that far away. Everything is reachable by train. Nijmegen, Arnhem, France, Germany.
Current dress regulations do not allow you to wear foreign wings, unless you have the CDN course, and even then there are a lot of people that will be in your face about it.
Contact the ABMP rep in Scotland via the UK site above for information about Pathfinder. The two organizations have worked alongside eachother for a few years.
What do want to accomplish doing this training?

Offline Ranger Rick

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Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2006, 01:40:36 »
I am aware that this is a somewhat touchy issue for some people because they find it degrades what they worked for. That however is not what I am starting this thread for.

Regardless I am interested in traveling to Holland this year to attend the parachutist course there. Now it was my understanding that you are NOT allowed to after completion of the course to wear the Dutch wings on your CF DEUs. However my section commander was in the Airborne Regiment and wears his CF wings his Pathfinder wings and a set of foreign wings on his right breast. I searched around the site but could not find the answers. If some one knows them or can point me to where I can look, thanks.



Rick

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2006, 07:41:44 »

A-AD-265-000/AG-001
CANADIAN FORCES DRESS INSTRUCTIONS
2001-06-15

Page 3-3-4

Quote
FOREIGN FLYING AND SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES

14. Personnel who have been presented equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CF, shall wear the applicable CF badge according to wear instructions in paragraphs 7. and 8. and Annex B.

15. Where an equivalent CF badge has not been designed or approved for wear, the allied country badge presented for the prescribed qualification shall be worn like a CF badge according to wear instructions In paragraphs 7. and 8. and Annex B. If wearing both a CF badge and a foreign badge, the CF badge shall take precedence. The following prescribed foreign qualification badges are authorized for wear on the CF uniform:

a. United States Army Ranger Badge (a sleeve badge); and

b. United States Army Special Forces Badge (a sleeve badge).

16. Personnel who have been presented equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CF, and those who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or serving with the armed forces of an allied country, may wear the appropriate metal or cloth badge, on the right breast of the service dress and mess dress jacket only while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function sponsored by the country concerned. Foreign badges shall be positioned as follows:

a. Navy (Blue Service Dress Jacket). Centred 0.6 cm (1/4 in.) below the name tag, displacing downward any command badge worn.

b. Navy (High Collared White Jacket), Army and Air Force. Centred on the right breast pocket, above and evenly spaced with any command badge.

c. Mess Dress. A single miniature metal foreign flying, or specialist skill badge may be worn on mess dress under the same circumstances as the full size version on service dress. Naval personnel may wear foreign miniatures, but only of a cloth format.

Offline Ranger Rick

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2006, 08:43:06 »
Neither of the first post links work for me, can anyone tell me if its me or the links?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 08:46:31 by Ranger Rick »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2006, 09:07:58 »
Neither of the first post links work for me, can anyone tell me if its me or the links?

Sorry that post is two years old.  Perhaps Noneck has up to date links.
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Offline WarrenpeacE-

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2006, 09:08:40 »
the second link worked, first did not.
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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2006, 09:09:01 »
"Prescribed by the CF" means simply that the wings are legitimate military parachute wings.

Badges, such as the Dutch Jump Wing are legit.

Badges from Civilian parachute clubs are not.

Badges from certain Walter Mitty-esque organizations ::)  are not.

The Dutch basic para has been contracted (Alternate Service Delivery) to a civilian skydiving club. If a graduate is posted subsequently to a jump line serial, such as the Royal Netherlands' Marines or 11 Airmobile Brigade, the gaining unit will then teach real paratrooping skills, such as rigging & jumping weapons, ruck, etc. But it is a NATO-approved jump qualification (which may be a comment on NATO's decline).

All those Dress Regs Mike posted can be distilled down to "you can wear them when you're serving in that foreign country and if you're officially hosting/working with military pers from that country" - - may not come up too often for an Ontario-based Reserve Pte.

Because their basic is now just a civie skydiving course - - "go out the door, turn left" - - that, as mentioned, anyone can simply buy the qualification, there are a LOT of posers out there now padding their ninja-sniper qualifications with real jump wings. Having the wings may not get you the response you were hoping for.

I'm just sayin'......

Offline Danjanou

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 10:32:53 »
"Prescribed by the CF" means simply that the wings are legitimate military parachute wings.

Badges, such as the Dutch Jump Wing are legit.

Badges from Civilian parachute clubs are not.

Badges from certain Walter Mitty-esque organizations ::)  are not.

The Dutch basic para has been contracted (Alternate Service Delivery) to a civilian skydiving club. If a graduate is posted subsequently to a jump line serial, such as the Royal Netherlands' Marines or 11 Airmobile Brigade, the gaining unit will then teach real paratrooping skills, such as rigging & jumping weapons, ruck, etc. But it is a NATO-approved jump qualification (which may be a comment on NATO's decline).

All those Dress Regs Mike posted can be distilled down to "you can wear them when you're serving in that foreign country and if you're officially hosting/working with military pers from that country" - - may not come up too often for an Ontario-based Reserve Pte.

Because their basic is now just a civie skydiving course - - "go out the door, turn left" - - that, as mentioned, anyone can simply buy the qualification, there are a LOT of posers out there now padding their ninja-sniper qualifications with real jump wings. Having the wings may not get you the response you were hoping for.

I'm just sayin'......

Geez JM  you get anymore wings and assorted boy scout badges for your uniform you’ll have to get a cape issued to display them all.  >:D


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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 11:02:31 »
That pic looks vaguely religious....so you know it isn't me.   >:D

Offline Danjanou

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 11:08:06 »
That pic looks vaguely religious....so you know it isn't me.   >:D

Ooops you're right. This is more like it
 
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Offline Ranger Rick

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 11:19:45 »
Thanks for helping me out with this one guys, Yea I wouldn't so much be doing it to wear them on my DEUs but for the experience. Because my chances for getting onto a CF B Para course also are not to high as a Pte reservist from Ontario.

Offline MickNotMac

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2006, 02:11:07 »
If you're just doing it for the experience, you can do a civvy jump course in Ontario.  There's even one in Grand Bend, not too far away from you.  Or you can leave 4RCR like I did and join the regs ;D

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2006, 02:51:34 »
Um....is it me or does the photos from the class of 2002 have some canadian members in it? one's even seen wearing his cadpat helmet...um...is the wearin of your uniform permitted when you're on that course?!  ???
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Offline x-grunt

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2006, 08:00:01 »
Thanks for helping me out with this one guys, Yea I wouldn't so much be doing it to wear them on my DEUs but for the experience. Because my chances for getting onto a CF B Para course also are not to high as a Pte reservist from Ontario.

If you aren't aware of it, there are several nations that allow military jumpers to take their courses or jump with them in some way. Except for the Dutch and the Polish, they want the person to already have a basic para qual. So you can use those courses to open the door to other opportunities.

See here: http://www.airbornepage.com/ they set up military jump vacation tours.

I'll hazard a guess that nothing can really replicate the experience of a military jump course and you'll likely never get to wear the wings. But maybe this is as close as we can get without getting loaded on the CF para course.

Offline geo

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2006, 08:24:12 »
Would imagine that the CSOR & JTF2 will be tying up the Para courses for some time to come.
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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2006, 08:50:56 »
x-grunt's link to the airbornepage.com shows a pic of an unusual parachute badge with bat wings. The legend says it is from the "13th Inf. Regiment (Texas Volunteer Field Forces)." No joy with Google trying to find such a unit, so I suspect they may be similar to the "Walter Mitty-esque" organization I linked to in my original post.

Danjanou, I don't know if those pics are from your personal collection, but you're starting to scare me   ;)

Offline x-grunt

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2006, 09:56:41 »
Whups. Completely missed that others had posts and links to similar orgs in my half-asleep skim through the thread.
Next time I'll drink my morning coffee before I go online.

Those Walter Mitty-esque groups of Journeyman's are just a little creepy.

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2006, 10:03:58 »
Those Walter Mitty-esque groups of Journeyman's are just a little creepy.

Hey! They're not mine!!  My "creepy goup" is currently NDHQ   ;)

Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2006, 10:13:16 »
Would imagine that the CSOR & JTF2 will be tying up the Para courses for some time to come.

Why do you say that?
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2006, 10:20:18 »
My "creepy group" is currently NDHQ   ;)

HEY!!

I resemble that remark!
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Offline Breacher41

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2006, 11:46:18 »
I've heard it from the rumor mill before that if you were basic parachute qualified from the States, you can apply to do a few (3?) jumps with a Canadian unit and you're good to go on your Canadian Jump wings. True?

If that's true, isnt there some way to do a round about way? ie. Dutch Para, US Para then hitch up with the QYRang when they do their jumps and voila! Canaidan Jump Wings! Maybe I'm OVER simplifying...but would that possibly work?
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Offline Danjanou

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2006, 11:51:00 »
Danjanou, I don't know if those pics are from your personal collection, but you're starting to scare me   ;)

Just starting to?  I have to try harder >:D
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2006, 12:02:38 »
I've heard it from the rumor mill before that if you were basic parachute qualified from the States, you can apply to do a few (3?) jumps with a Canadian unit and you're good to go on your Canadian Jump wings. True?

If that's true, isnt there some way to do a round about way? ie. Dutch Para, US Para then hitch up with the QYRang when they do their jumps and voila! Canaidan Jump Wings! Maybe I'm OVER simplifying...but would that possibly work?

The only ways that I know of for a CF member to earn Canadian jump wings are:

a. take basic para;
b. remuster to SAR tech;
c. join the Skyhawks.
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2006, 12:05:02 »
c. join the Skyhawks.


and they currently accept ppl with Civi jump quals dont they?
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