Author Topic: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's  (Read 33908 times)

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Offline geo

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2006, 13:28:58 »
Why do you say that?
It goes without saying that with the raising of the CSOR and the expansion of JTF2,  positions on current basic para courses will be filled up by them prior to opening any serials that will be offered to individuals who do not have an immediate need to qualify.  Also our Herc fleet is seeing extensive use going in & out of Afhanistan... the fleet is clocking up an awful lot of hours delivering the goods - hard to believe they will be offering para courses to any but those who really need the qualification "right this very instant"
Chimo!

Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2006, 13:40:24 »
I agree with your line of thought, but:
-everyone in CSOR who needs to be para qualifed probably is by now and,
-Is not the school using CASA aircraft as thier platform for all para courses now?
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2006, 14:37:46 »

and they currently accept ppl with Civi jump quals dont they?

Yes, but, according to their web site: (http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/English/3_3_1_1_6.asp)

"Augmentation to the team is required annually and is open to all CF members who meet the following minimum criteria:

-Qualified Basic Parachutist (NCO - AHMD, Officer - AEIM);
-Qualified QL4 or Second Lieutenant in any trade or classification;
-Qualified Military Freefall Parachutist or hold an "A" certificate issued by the Canadian Sport Parachuting Association with a minimum of 50 freefall jumps; and,
-Be recommended by their unit Commanding Officer.

Members who apply must be prepared to pass the Para physical fitness test upon their arrival at the Canadian Parachute Centre
."

Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2006, 14:38:42 »
The only ways that I know of for a CF member to earn Canadian jump wings are:

a. take basic para;
b. remuster to SAR tech;
c. join the Skyhawks.

SAR Techs don't get the standard Canadian army jump wings...so "b" isn't going to help buddy's scheme to somehow get Canadian jump wings.

I'm kind of curious how doing the Dutch (skydive-lite) course will somehow get him loaded on a US serial, so that he can subsequently do famil jumps with the Canadians, and get the wing  ???

Offline geo

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2006, 14:51:33 »
I agree with your line of thought, but:
-everyone in CSOR who needs to be para qualifed probably is by now and,
-Is not the school using CASA aircraft as thier platform for all para courses now?

CSOR is a unit that is still filling out.  Still lots of positions being filled.
CASA planes - wouldn't know......
Chimo!

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2006, 14:54:07 »
CASA planes - wouldn't know......

CPC has been chartering a CASA 212 for many (most?) of their recent serials. Interesting trivia is that it's not certified for para ops in Canada, so there's a Loggie Capt in the Directorate of Army Training that has to ask Transport Canada for a waiver each time it's used.

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2006, 17:09:14 »
SAR Techs don't get the standard Canadian army jump wings...so "b" isn't going to help buddy's scheme to somehow get Canadian jump wings.

I'm kind of curious how doing the Dutch (skydive-lite) course will somehow get him loaded on a US serial, so that he can subsequently do famil jumps with the Canadians, and get the wing  ???


no no I was just theorizing, maybe the US military allows someone with an allied jump course to jump with them i.e. the Netherlands Brevet B, hence earning their wing, and ergo able to apply for a Canadian Jump Wing with some jumps.

Ya I know the SAR Techs dont get jump wings, :) the PARACHUTE is incorporated into their wing already isnt it?  :) I also talked to a SAR Tech and their chutes arent the airborne domed ones, and are the square chutes maybe that's why dont get it too?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2006, 17:32:13 »
You're starting to loose it. 
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Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Haggis

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2006, 18:04:33 »
no no I was just theorizing, maybe the US military allows someone with an allied jump course to jump with them i.e. the Netherlands Brevet B, hence earning their wing, and ergo able to apply for a Canadian Jump Wing with some jumps.

Instead of trying to find an easy way to "acquire" CF jump wings (as opposed to "earning" them), why not just get fit, take Basic Para and wear 'em with well earened pride?

Quote
Ya I know the SAR Techs dont get jump wings, :) the PARACHUTE is incorporated into their wing already isnt it?  :) I also talked to a SAR Tech and their chutes arent the airborne domed ones, and are the square chutes maybe that's why dont get it too?

And I agree with George Wallace.
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2006, 18:15:25 »
No. I don't want the easy way. If I could get on a Para course I would jump at the opportunity.


Ya I probably am losing it GW & Haggis...*sigh* oh well time to hit the books again.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2006, 18:19:41 »
If I could get on a Para course I would jump at the opportunity.

 :rofl: That's punny!
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2006, 18:29:36 »
Oh my...lol no pun intended...although it was quite funny eh?


wait...did you mean funny? or punny? as in *in Arnold's voice* YOU PUNNY MAN!
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Offline French CDO #7

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2006, 08:09:00 »
During my posting in West Germany 1984-88 I completed a French Commando Training Course in Kiel, I also completed French Army Basic Para Course which was run after the Commando training. I am not qualified CDN Para. I was authorised to wear both French Wings and French Commando Badge #7 on the CF's while serving overseas. Once I returned to Canada I was to bring down the foreign badge and wings due to CF Policy. I have been serving in the CF 26 years now and follow the same policy. I see it this way If you are qualified whether the badges or wings are seen or not. You know you are qualified and been there. I got the logs to prove it. Thats' life ;)

Offline geo

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2006, 11:52:02 »
(they also make dandy wall decorations when mounted in a frame)
Chimo!

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2006, 12:45:03 »
CPC has been chartering a CASA 212 for many (most?) of their recent serials. Interesting trivia is that it's not certified for para ops in Canada, so there's a Loggie Capt in the Directorate of Army Training that has to ask Transport Canada for a waiver each time it's used.

Not to totally hijack this thread, but is this waiver required only because it's a chartered civvy aircraft?  I'd thought that DND was generally allowed to do things it's own way WRT to aviation.  By this I mean we're not regulated by Transport Canada per se, although the two departments work hand in hand in areas where concerns overlap.

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2006, 12:51:57 »
Response by PM to keep thread on topic

Offline slayer14

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2017, 14:06:11 »
Anyone notice the CDS wearing US and another country's (not sure which) jumps wings yesterday at the CF appreciation nhl game in Toronto yesterday?

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2017, 14:31:09 »
Looked like US jump wings. Dude has enough bling, he doesn't need to wear more in contravention to the dress regs (The presence of a US officer doesn't make it a US military event or "working" with the US).

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2017, 16:26:56 »
Looked like US jump wings. Dude has enough bling, he doesn't need to wear more in contravention to the dress regs (The presence of a US officer doesn't make it a US military event or "working" with the US).

It's the CDS... I highly doubt anyone is going to correct the CDS, and to be honest I really don't care if he's wearing US Jump Wings. If it makes him feel better about being the CDS, all the power to him, I think there's bigger fish to fry in this day and age.
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Offline AmmoTech90

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2017, 18:08:30 »
It's the CDS... I highly doubt anyone is going to correct the CDS, and to be honest I really don't care if he's wearing US Jump Wings. If it makes him feel better about being the CDS, all the power to him, I think there's bigger fish to fry in this day and age.

Someone should have pointed it out to him, perhaps the CFCWO or his EA/ADC?  Funny how a popular CDS gets a bye; if it wasn't JV there would be howls of protest methinks.  There's the whole lead by example thing.  But as pointed out in the budget thread the fastest way the CAF can spend money is more bling so I guess he is leading by example.
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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2017, 19:23:33 »
It's the CDS... I highly doubt anyone is going to correct the CDS, and to be honest I really don't care if he's wearing US Jump Wings. If it makes him feel better about being the CDS, all the power to him, I think there's bigger fish to fry in this day and age.
We have rules for a reason, the entire CAF is built on rules. If we give the CDS a pass foe this what does that say when we hammer a MCpl for doing it? As for bigger fish to fry, it takes 0 effort and a 10 second conversation to sort out someone's dress.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2017, 19:37:41 »
Anyone notice the CDS wearing US and another country's (not sure which) jumps wings yesterday at the CF appreciation nhl game in Toronto yesterday?

We should all be wearing US jump wings. It's D + 2 already and they're going to need all the 'invaders' they can get in about a month :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2017, 08:21:45 »
It's the CDS... I highly doubt anyone is going to correct the CDS, and to be honest I really don't care if he's wearing US Jump Wings. If it makes him feel better about being the CDS, all the power to him, I think there's bigger fish to fry in this day and age.

Would you care if all of your subordinates who had US jump wings suddenly started wearing them?

Leadership is from the top down, no?  From http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/toc-04.page

4.02 - GENERAL RESPONSIBILITIES OF OFFICERS

(1) An officer shall:
a.become acquainted with, observe and enforce:
i.the National Defence Act,
ii.the Security of Information Act,
iii.QR&O, and
iv.all other regulations, rules, orders and instructions that pertain to the performance of the officer's duties;

That would include CF dress regulations.  It sets the "we are GOFO/Snr Officer/Jnr Officers/CWOs/MWOs/WOs/Sgts, we can bend the rules that we are actually supposed to enforce" precedent.  If its not a big deal for our most senior ranks to do it, it should be even LESS of a deal if our OCdts, 2Lts, Cpls and Pte's do it.

But the last few years have shown us its not about leadership sometimes, its about getting the new bling.  Example, the "new" Wings for RCAF personnel that are approved but not produced in mass and distributed yet, but our senior leaders and a select few are sporting the new bling so they have their LCF goin' on while the people at the op level wait.  The Wings themselves aren't much of a big deal (the less I am in DEU and more I am in a flight suit, the happier I am...), the message of "the troops DON'T come first" is a big deal (to me). 

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2017, 09:33:38 »
But we always knew that our very senior leadership has bling envy.

I think it started with the RCN getting it's elliot's eye back. That meant that the admirals started wearing the wide band plus stripes on their sleeves of their DEU tunics. Now, they retained the shoulder boards with maple leaves but only for uniforms without sleeve stripes. So it was one or the other for the RCN (as had always been the case in past uniforms).

But all that gold on the sleeves of DEU tunics wouldn't do with the RCAF, who just had to re-establish bling superiority. So they came up with this clever plan (as can be seen in the picture above): With the re-introduction of blue/grey "Air Force" colours stripes, they adopted the "old" RCAF practice of broad band plus stripes on the DEU sleeves, but for added bling kept the wearing of shoulder boards with maple leaves at the same time.

The poor Army was left in a lurch! Imagine, the newly re-introduced "British" style pips and crowns meant that, other than the red general's gorgets, their bling was actually very subdued. That just wouldn't do: So just for general officers, they re-introduced the old gold broad band and shoulder maple leaves, but kept the gorgets.

At least, the Army didn't go bat crazy like the RCAF, except for the CDS who decided that somehow his maple leaves should be twice as big as every one else's and made of silver. 

 ;D ;D ;D

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Wearing Of Foreign Wings On CF's
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2017, 09:46:42 »
I guess I'm weird.  I'd prefer to have a decent flashlight I didn't have to buy myself, or flying gloves that don't fall apart when I use them for...flying.  Nice driving gloves, but changing setting on a belly load and they're toast after the first 10 buoys usually.  I received some helpful new DEU slip-ons this year though!   :blotto:
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 09:55:08 by Eye In The Sky »
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