Author Topic: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread  (Read 183006 times)

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #950 on: October 28, 2008, 08:45:15 »
To be fair, Gen (ret'd) Hillier has been given a free ride fro mcritics (other tha a small lunatic fringe).  An objective assessment of his tenure is needed.  While many of his efforts were entirely laudable, he must also bear responsibility for such abominations as the stand up of the dot COM headquarters, and the utter confusion of C2 those introduced.

Unforutnately, he's still too recent a CDS for there to be anything resembling an objective assessment of his tenure.
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Offline Jed

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #951 on: October 28, 2008, 09:53:52 »
Point taken dapaterson, wrt objective look at the total body of excellent work accomplished by the former CDS, Gen Hillier. However, it appears to me that FFnA is in a hole and he is trying to get out of it by digging deeper.

I recommend he stop flinging the dirt around, reassess the situation, build a ladder with all the good advice he is receiving and  climb out of the hole.

As the old man used to say: " I used to be a coyote, but I'm alright nooooOOOOWWW!"

Offline Greymatters

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #952 on: October 28, 2008, 10:01:32 »
Unforutnately, he's still too recent a CDS for there to be anything resembling an objective assessment of his tenure. 

Im sure someone out there is compiling a detailed and dissected history of his past for future publication even as we speak...

Offline dapaterson

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #953 on: October 28, 2008, 10:23:46 »
If it's a DND history publication, he's safe for several decades... the official histories of the Korean War are starting to come out now.
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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #954 on: October 28, 2008, 10:40:49 »
The official history of the Canadian army in Korea was published in 1966 or 13 years after the end of hostilities.

Offline tango22a

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #955 on: October 28, 2008, 10:47:10 »
FFnA:

It seems to me that it is SO in fashion nowadays to belittle a person's accomplishments and bring him/her down to the belittler's level. I personally have never met Gen. Hillier, but from talking to friends and serving relatives I agree he was and is one of Canada's best-ever CDS.

So why don't you STFU and take your whinging remarks to another blog!!!!

Cheers (and don't bother replying),

tango22a

P.S.:
Since the hole you've dug for yourself on this forum is ever-deepening you MIGHT want to take more care .... you might end up in Kandahar.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 10:51:51 by tango22a »
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #956 on: October 28, 2008, 11:08:00 »
The official history of the Canadian army in Korea was published in 1966 or 13 years after the end of hostilities.

Mea culpa.  Still, Gen (ret'd) Cod should be safe for a decade at least.  Or, if it's like the history of the Navy, better than 60 years (Vol 2 of the history of the Navy in WWII was published in 2007).



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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #957 on: October 28, 2008, 11:30:57 »
General Hillier has a powerful, charismatic personality. He was the right person in the right place at the right time. This, however, does not mean that he is incapable of erring and in a big way. As with any poweful, dynamic leader the challenge for his staff is to muster the courage to bring forward the negatives as well as the positives of any course of action. (I just finished Lewis MacKenzie's book. In it he recalls that after shortly taking command of LFCA, he assembled his staff and told them that he was concerned that no one on his staff ever objected to anything he proposed or informed him that we tried that before, and it didn't work for the following reasons.)  The staff do their boss a disservice when they do not lay out the implications of any course of action. This can be even more difficult if the staff are reluctant to incur the boss's wrath or adopt the 'we are the army and we have a can do attitude. Don't say it is a bad idea, make the program work.'

Back to the main point, General Hillier was an exceptional CDS and probably the best one to date. All his decisions, however, were not the best course of action from our perespective. The question remains whether he was correct, or did we poor blighters in the trenches get in right? The jury is still out.

Offline Fear, Fervor, nor Affection

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #958 on: October 28, 2008, 14:08:55 »
FFnA:

It seems to me that it is SO in fashion nowadays to belittle a person's accomplishments and bring him/her down to the belittler's level. I personally have never met Gen. Hillier, but from talking to friends and serving relatives I agree he was and is one of Canada's best-ever CDS.

So why don't you STFU and take your whinging remarks to another blog!!!!

Cheers (and don't bother replying),

tango22a

P.S.:
Since the hole you've dug for yourself on this forum is ever-deepening you MIGHT want to take more care .... you might end up in Kandahar.

I am really starting to question the reading ability of the people who are replying to my posts.  I did not say one bad things about Hillier's past accomplishments or his tenure as CDS.  In fact, I have done quite the opposite.  I am pointing out that he has made a reversal in opinion about employment in a certain sector of the business world.  The fact that this was not even commented on by the posters on this forum shocked me because they are usually all over public figures/politicians/journalists/academics/and "military experts" who do the same.(that is change their view or opinion on a topic not decide to become a lobbyist)  The General seems to have gotten a free pass on this one.  Not a big deal in and of itself.  It just goes to the blind bias exhibited by the type of person who tells someone to STFU when a fact they don't particulary want to hear is pointed out.
This has become not a place for discussion but the repitition of commonly held beliefs.  If you don't agree with those beliefs, you get told to STFU or have people call you names.  If you don't idolize and hold in proper reverence the personalities that all others do, you are called an idiot.

While I agree that Hillier was a great CDS his success was as much a function of timing as it was of his effort and abilities.  Canada had been thrust into a war due to 9/11.  There was going to be increased military funding no matter who was in charge.  He was a master at using the media to get a lot of the credit for this.  He did politicize the office of the CDS during his time in it.  It will take some time to see if that was a good thing or a bad thing.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #959 on: October 28, 2008, 14:16:09 »
The office of CDS was already politicized. It has been since the 70's and perhaps before that.

The worst example was General Boyle. He did exactly what he was told to by MND, with little regard for the soldiers, sailors and airpeople under his watch. I can't recall all the CDS's I served under.....just what I perceive to be bad examples and good examples.

Did General Hillier politicize the office.....perhaps, but in the favor of the soldiers, sailors and airpeople under his watch.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #960 on: October 28, 2008, 14:21:20 »
The office of CDS was already politicized. It has been since the 70's and perhaps before that.

The worst example was General Boyle. He did exactly what he was told to by MND, with little regard for the soldiers, sailors and airpeople under his watch. I can't recall all the CDS's I served under.....just what I perceive to be bad examples and good examples.

Did General Hillier politicize the office.....perhaps, but in the favor of the soldiers, sailors and airpeople under his watch.

So true on all counts - two opposites that stick in the mind - Boyle and Hillier.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #961 on: October 28, 2008, 14:48:24 »
Although I am a firm supporter of The General (can't figure how anyone serving in the 80/90's wouldn't be) I do know of some senior Officers and NCM's that do not hold him in such high regards. From what I have heard he was a "my way or the highway" type leader and some chose the highway. The dot coms were a highly contested decision and there is already talk started of getting rid of them.

FFNA - from reading the original post you commented on - did it occur to you that maybe that was the reporters words and not Hilliers?

There is no doubt that some here have to calm down and stop with the dramatic over re-acting, FFNA is right that he has not called into question the General's time as CDS.

Did Hillier say he would not be a lobbyist?  Don't know as the first line of the article does not indicate it was a quote from him. Could be his words or the reporters words.

Did he become a lobbyist?  Not yet as far as I know.

No doubt the company is hoping to pick some nuggets out of him and maybe he will provide them with some if he feels it is for the good of those serving.

Just have to wait and see what the man does in the future. Regardless of what he does it will not change the fact - He was amongst, if not the, best CDS.
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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #962 on: October 28, 2008, 15:00:15 »

FACT- Hillier said he wouldn't become a lobbyist
FACT- Hillier now works for a lobbying firm(in some capacity)


I once said I'd never own a Japanese motorcycle, drive an imported car, or drink Mexican beer.  I've now done all three.  March me off to the pillory, constables.
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #963 on: October 28, 2008, 15:07:17 »
I once said I'd never own a Japanese motorcycle, drive an imported car, or drink Mexican beer.  I've now done all three.  March me off to the pillory, constables.

I once said I'd never work in a jail.....now I do..... :crybaby:
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Offline tango22a

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #964 on: October 28, 2008, 15:19:53 »
FFnA:

Bias my a$$. A man can work for a company that lobbies while doing No lobbying himself. When I joined the Army in 1965 we were still using '52 pattern Jeeps and '52 pattern 3/4ton SMPs. We daren't return them to MSS for fear that we would never see them again. All through the 60s,70s and 80s...same story or worse. Role changes:Recce...Armour....Recce...Armour. and on and on. At least with Hillier we knew what to expect.

I truly believe Hillier will only advise his new employers in his proven areas of leadership and honesty.Too bad you can't teach charisma.

I have been reading since I was 4 years old, and though I am getting a little long in the tooth, my comprehension skills are fairly high. I can still recognize an under-handed attempt at character assassination. Possibly the STFU was not justified, but I can't sit idly by when a TROLL pulls my chain.
Very Uncheerfully,
tango22a
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 16:41:39 by tango22a »
DISCLAIMER: THE IDEAS AND OPINIONS EXPRESSED HEREIN ARE MINE AND MINE ALONE! NO ONE OTHER THAN MYSELF IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM!

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Offline tango22a

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #965 on: October 28, 2008, 16:59:48 »
Kat Stevens:

28 Days pillory .... to be served on alternate Thursdays in months without an "R" and years without a "0" or "1" in it.

Cheers,

tango22a
DISCLAIMER: THE IDEAS AND OPINIONS EXPRESSED HEREIN ARE MINE AND MINE ALONE! NO ONE OTHER THAN MYSELF IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM!

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Still crazy after all these years!!!

Dead Horse Beater......Par Excellence!

Offline CountDC

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #966 on: October 29, 2008, 07:46:09 »
I said I would never be

a clerk

regular force

Navy

have a family

work in Ottawa

live in PMQ

drive a van

guess I must be super bad as I have done all of those over the years since then. The reality is that at points we all plan and say things that get changed as time passes.

I actually hope that he does become a lobbyist as I am sure that whatever he choices to lobby for will be good for the military.
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #967 on: October 29, 2008, 08:48:22 »
Why are certain people nitpicking our former CDS?
He served his time in the military and now he is on his second life.
He has found employment, let the man do his job.
If and when he does anything, then offer your opinions.

You are condemning the man for what he might do, not for what he done.
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #968 on: October 29, 2008, 09:13:30 »
I think the unseemly pile-on because Fear, Fervor nor Affacetion does not worship, mindlessly, at Rick Hillier’s shrine reflects poorly on those who are unable or, at least, unwilling to accept anything that is not 99.9% in accordance with their preconceived ideas.

But, FFnA go off on the wrong foot by misunderstanding the very nature of  Gowlings. It is, first and foremost a law firm – and, as far as I know, a very good, respected and respectable one. In Canada (as in the America) many law firms are also in the advocacy business – because law is, in the main, a matter of advocacy of various sorts. The boundary between much of the ‘out of court’ work of big law firms and major lobby firms is blurred. One 'job' they all do is executive placement.

It is not now and never was clear to me that Gen. (ret’d) Hillier is an employee of Gowlings – rather, I think he is a client: Gowlings is providing services to him – like getting him a job with TD Canada Trust, he is not doing anything for them.

Thus: FFnA has misread the situation but, rather than correct his facts, many members have decided to attack the messenger, which is amateurish, at best.

 

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Offline Teeps74

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #969 on: October 29, 2008, 10:13:57 »
First of all, not once did I say he should be held to the same standard as a government employee.  In fact, I have said quite the opposite in a couple of posts.  I specifically said that I believe he is free to do whatever work he wants as a private citizen.  Perhaps you, Teeps74, should grow up and brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

As for facts, they have been laid out; Hillier said he wouldn't become a lobbyist - He is now employed by a lobbying firm.  These are facts.  I am not claiming to know the exact significance of them.  I am just a bit surprised to see him in a position where the good of the CF and the good of the people he represents may one day be at odds with one another.  Who does he choose then?  The people who pay him or the CF?  For a man who has made his image and reputation by representing the good of little guy(the individual soldier), he is risking that same reputation when he does, or at least appears to, represent the good of the contractors.  I don't know what will happen, but nobody knows better than the General that perception is very important.  He was a master at controling it during his tenure as CDS.

Do you have a problem with honesty? The man said he would not be a defence lobbiest. There is a big, big, big difference herer, which you are very dutifully missing.

I have read some of your other threads, and labelling your responses as crap, would be very appropriate.
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Offline tango22a

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #970 on: October 29, 2008, 11:04:57 »
Gentlemen & Ladies:

I humbly apologise to this Forum for my Rant. Sorry, for practising what I was taught years  ago... "Never excuse a fault"

tango22a
DISCLAIMER: THE IDEAS AND OPINIONS EXPRESSED HEREIN ARE MINE AND MINE ALONE! NO ONE OTHER THAN MYSELF IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM!

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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #971 on: October 29, 2008, 11:27:10 »
It is not now and never was clear to me that Gen. (ret’d) Hillier is an employee of Gowlings – rather, I think he is a client: Gowlings is providing services to him – like getting him a job with TD Canada Trust, he is not doing anything for them.

Thus: FFnA has misread the situation but, rather than correct his facts, many members have decided to attack the messenger, which is amateurish, at best.

As usual, clarity in your analysis; however, he did do something for them; he provided his name. Gowlings received favourable publicity by simply providing an office and a little advice to one of the most admired Canadians in the public eye at the time.  I think Gowlings was the greater beneficiary of that deal.
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #972 on: November 11, 2008, 07:05:37 »
Here is a link to a video in which Gen. (Ret’d) Hillier passes on some wisdom to the business community.

There’s some good stuff for serving soldiers, too; especially important is the 95/5 idea and his admonition to not spend 95% of your leadership time and talent on the 5% of the people who are problems, who hold the organization back.

I think a lot of people will agree with me that during the first week in command of this that or the other organization one gets to know the problem children best – that’s natural because commanding is more than just leading – it is also about managing and managing is about identifying problems and  solving them. But, in my opinion, one must not get too focused on problems – there is a staff and a ‘system’ to help deal with them and one can, usually, use them with reasonable confidence – rather one wants to focus, quickly, on reinforcing success: supporting and developing the good people (and procedures and equipment, too). Broadly, the best way to ‘solve’ problems is to prevent them and helping good people get better is often the best way to prevent them from becoming indifferent and even turning into problems, themselves.

Anyway, the Codfather offers some food for thought for working leaders and would-be leaders in business and the military.
   

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Offline geo

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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #973 on: November 11, 2008, 09:07:02 »
Beautiful... thanks for the link Ed.
I think that the General never dissapoints when speaking his mind.
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Re: The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
« Reply #974 on: January 09, 2009, 15:37:12 »
Mods, please feel free to move this post if not properly placed.  I'm glad he's being honoured; he deserves it.

U of G to Present Outstanding Leader Award to Rick Hillier
January 09, 2009 - News Release


http://www.uoguelph.ca/news/2009/01/u_of_g_to_prese.html

Retired Canadian general and chief of defence staff Rick Hillier will receive the Lincoln Alexander Outstanding Leader Award Jan. 13 from the University of Guelph's College of Management and Economics (CME).

Hillier will be the second person to receive the honour since it was created and first awarded in 2006 to Lincoln Alexander, who served as Guelph's chancellor for an unprecedented 15 years and is now University chancellor emeritus.

Hillier is being honoured for his exceptional abilities as a communicator with soldiers, the public and the media at a time of increased activity in the Canadian Forces; for improving the image and sustainability of the Forces both domestically and internationally; and for his efforts to lobby the federal government for increased military funding.

"Rick Hillier has never been afraid to speak up for what he believes in, which is always a signature of an exceptional leader,” said CME dean Chris McKenna. "Throughout his career, he has made some of the toughest decisions imaginable and worked tirelessly to advocate for the men and women who defend our nation. He is an exceptional leader who continues to share his expertise, even after retirement from the military.”

Hillier’s 36-year military career included serving as commander of the Stabilization Force multinational division (southwest) and the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force in Kabul, Afghanistan. He was named chief of land staff in 2003 and two years later became Canada’s chief of defence staff, the highest-ranking position in the Canadian Forces. He retired from the Forces in 2008.

Hillier has since brought his leadership skills to the world of business and post-secondary education. He now works for the TD Bank Financial Group supporting the enhancement of client and customer relations and assisting with the bank’s leadership development and training initiatives. He also serves as chancellor of Memorial University, his alma mater.

The annual Lincoln Alexander Outstanding Leader Award is presented to someone who has embodied and demonstrated exceptional leadership in the areas of service, advocacy, collaboration, learning and scholarship.
The 2007 recipient was Frank McKenna, former premier of New Brunswick and former Canadian ambassador to the United States.

For media questions, contact Communications and Public Affairs: Lori Bona Hunt, 519-824-4120, Ext. 53338, l.hunt@uoguelph.ca, or Barry Gunn, Ext. 56982, bagunn@uoguelph.ca