Author Topic: The Great Gun Control Debate  (Read 884893 times)

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Online suffolkowner

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3750 on: August 04, 2017, 19:05:11 »
I'm not disagreeing that this situation seems unjust and that there appears to be details missing.

However, what I'm asking is:

1. When the police laid these charges, did they consciously apply an official policy/strategy developed between law enforcement and the Crown Attorneys' Office to hammer people involved in gun related crimes with the goal of causing so much duress that the accused caves and signs whatever plea bargain the Crown wants; or
2. When the police laid these charges, did they simply apply existing legislation, precedent, and law enforcement policy that perhaps states that when there is evidence of weapons involvement in a crime, they must apply all charges that could possibly be derived from the facts of their investigation.

Re-reading what I just wrote, I realize the difference is small, but it's a matter of motive. In situation 1, the policy and crown attorneys are demonstrating malice toward gun owners, and in the other, they are simply doing their jobs as police officers.

I ask, because the last few posts in this thread imply that malice is exactly what the police are demonstrating, and I'm not denying it, I'm simply asking for non-anecdotal proof.

I feel like if there is no official written policy to do what everyone is implying is being done, then someone at the shitty end of this stick would have had grounds at some point to put forward a charter challenge and stop this un-sanctioned practice.

In my experience the police/crown throw everything at you and hope it sticks whether you are in fact guilty or not. it's up to you to present your defence

Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3751 on: August 09, 2017, 14:25:04 »
There will be no written policy to that effect, but "verbal" instructions. The Ian Thompson case shows this effect in action, as well as the individual charged with careless storage after it took thieves 3 days to jackhammer into his vault. Then there was the Silvercore firearms school fiasco, although I expect that was more personal vendetta by certain individuals in positions authority. I got to read the FOI results from the RCMP and CBSA about the seizure of firearms coming into the country with a permit for resale. To be fair CBSA handed over documents that made them look bad, the RCMP blanked out anything that would make them look bad.

Offline Lumber

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3752 on: August 10, 2017, 08:22:28 »
This! You're not going to have much time or space inside your house to make this decision. To me the intruder has already proven their bad intentions.

So, if you heard a noise, came downstairs with your gun, and saw a figure moving in the dark, you'd just shoot them without warning?

Hope that isn't your daughter's boyfriend trying to sneak out...
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3753 on: August 10, 2017, 10:21:46 »
So, if you heard a noise, came downstairs with your gun, and saw a figure moving in the dark, you'd just shoot them without warning?

Hope that isn't your daughter's boyfriend trying to sneak out...

If I heard a noise I'd just shoot through the door, or the floor, in the general direction of the sound. Then I'd grab a beer drink it and crush the empty can against  my forehead. 
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3754 on: August 10, 2017, 11:31:15 »
So, if you heard a noise, came downstairs with your gun, and saw a figure moving in the dark, you'd just shoot them without warning?

Hope that isn't your daughter's boyfriend trying to sneak out...

Police did a “no knock” raid on a house in Alberta, the guy was involved at some level in the drug trade (pot as I recall), when they were breaking in, he told his wife to call 911, a plainsclothes officer came into the room and the homeowner shot him dead. The police charged him with murder, he claimed self-defence, believing it was his drug rivals and that the police were not clearly identified as such. The murder charge was struck down and the court accepted the individual acted in self-defence

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3755 on: August 10, 2017, 14:11:23 »
Same thing happened in Montreal, IIRC. No knock warrant, police didn't self identify, home owner shot and killed one at his bedroom door. Fear for life, family, no escape, armed assailant, ruled justifiable.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3756 on: August 10, 2017, 14:26:16 »
Same thing happened in Montreal, IIRC. No knock warrant, police didn't self identify, home owner shot and killed one at his bedroom door. Fear for life, family, no escape, armed assailant, ruled justifiable.

I don't see anything wrong with this and am happy that in both cases they didn't get charged with murder.
"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
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Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Offline GAP

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3757 on: August 10, 2017, 17:51:24 »

Hope that isn't your daughter's boyfriend trying to sneak out...

Justifiable homicide
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3758 on: August 30, 2017, 15:31:55 »
I'm trying to apply for this job with the RCMP, just having a bit of difficulty finding the actual apply button. Maybe that's a sign   [:-[

http://calibremag.ca/rcmp-hiring-internet-firearms-investigator/
RCMP HIRING: “INTERNET FIREARMS INVESTIGATOR”


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Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3759 on: August 30, 2017, 18:36:31 »
I'm trying to apply for this job with the RCMP, just having a bit of difficulty finding the actual apply button. Maybe that's a sign   [:-[

http://calibremag.ca/rcmp-hiring-internet-firearms-investigator/
RCMP HIRING: “INTERNET FIREARMS INVESTIGATOR”

Looks like it may be an internal to the public service posting.  Try searching from a DWAN terminal.  And if that doesn't work it's likely because the unit has already flagged your IP address and blocked you from applying.

Don't feel paranoid, though.... it's all legit. :Tin-Foil-Hat:
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 18:40:38 by Haggis »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3760 on: October 04, 2017, 18:07:45 »
Edited for brevity.

Sounds like the lull in the Liberals lack of interest in their campaign gun control promises are at an end.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3785263/gun-control-justin-trudeau-liberals-broken-promises/

« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 20:20:28 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3761 on: October 04, 2017, 18:21:00 »
While not related to Canadian gun control I'll post this here. Very interesting Ted Talk by the Chief of Defense for the Netherlands. Amazing public speaker too.

https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_van_uhm_why_i_chose_a_gun#t-6015
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3762 on: October 05, 2017, 10:56:44 »
Edited for brevity.

Sounds like the lull in the Liberals lack of interest in their campaign gun control promises are at an end.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3785263/gun-control-justin-trudeau-liberals-broken-promises/

Never let a crisis go to waste. I am sure the Liberal Cabinet is breathing a sigh of relief that the LV shooting happened at the same time as the Edmonton attack, people aren't giving that story the time it deserves.

Offline my72jeep

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3763 on: October 14, 2017, 11:05:25 »
Looks like Canadian Tire is bowing to political pressure. They cite a rise in cost but doesn't explane the pulling of existing stock.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3764 on: October 15, 2017, 16:55:56 »
Looks like Canadian Tire is bowing to political pressure. They cite a rise in cost but doesn't explane the pulling of existing stock.

I seen that.

Of course the predictable happened and people rushed to Canadian Tire to try and buy SKS's while they could. Where they couldn't get them at CT they picked them up elsewhere, I know someone that just bought a crate of them.

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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3765 on: October 17, 2017, 10:39:33 »
Kind of illustrates how gun control can't keep weapons out of the hands of criminals:


Winnipegger bought guns legally, sold them to gangs

21 guns Theodore Mantas sold to gang members still missing, court told as he pleads guilty

[More at LINK]
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Offline my72jeep

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3766 on: October 17, 2017, 10:43:13 »
Kind of illustrates how gun control can't keep weapons out of the hands of criminals:


Winnipegger bought guns legally, sold them to gangs

21 guns Theodore Mantas sold to gang members still missing, court told as he pleads guilty

[More at LINK]
This guy makes the lawfull look bad, the anti's will say " See we can't trust any of them".
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3767 on: October 17, 2017, 11:54:12 »
Kind of illustrates how gun control can't keep weapons out of the hands of criminals:


Winnipegger bought guns legally, sold them to gangs

21 guns Theodore Mantas sold to gang members still missing, court told as he pleads guilty

[More at LINK]

Throw the book at them, hard. Make an example of them. The same problem happens in the US, very few people get hard jail time for being strawmen.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3768 on: October 17, 2017, 12:07:11 »
Throw the book at them, hard. Make an example of them. The same problem happens in the US, very few people get hard jail time for being strawmen.

Yup. They should crucify this guy, figuratively speaking.  6 years seems light to me, 1 year per gun feels about right.


With technology where it's at machineguns can be made at little machine shops.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/weapons-trafficking-edmonton-machine-guns-1.4258821
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3769 on: October 17, 2017, 17:01:06 »
They always could be, MG are very much early 20th century tech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAUdrKG31zE

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3770 on: October 17, 2017, 18:24:16 »
Fair point but the internet lets a small time shop download plans in a couple seconds.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3771 on: October 18, 2017, 11:39:21 »
Fair point but the internet lets a small time shop download plans in a couple seconds.

and CNC, 3D printing, computer guided cutters all allows them to prototype easily and produce accurate components for production.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3772 on: October 18, 2017, 13:22:57 »
Sounds logical to me...

WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

Offline mariomike

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3773 on: October 18, 2017, 14:48:06 »
^ Sober drivers can go back to getting aound on the backs of animals.  :)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 16:19:34 by mariomike »

Offline Loachman

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3774 on: October 18, 2017, 17:33:00 »
^ Sober drivers can go back to getting aound on the backs of animals.

Murderers without guns can rent large trucks.