Author Topic: NCI OP vs NES OP  (Read 37474 times)

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Offline M Feetham

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2006, 21:20:53 »
Okay, for all those who wanted to know the difference between NCIOP and NESOP:
Naval Combat Information Operators are broken down into  NCIOP Junior and  NCIOP, the change in title happens at the MS level, which is also when you get your spec pay. Operators have many different jobs. Arro, ASPO. TS are the most obvious ones, these are for OS to LS QL5. GCCSM operator and LINK 16 operator are the MS, PLQ jobs. We also sit as TS when at action stations. All operators are required to be able to do AREPS, a job we took over from the NESOPs, yes we watch radars, we also have to know voice procedure, code words, tactics, missile profiles, associated radars, CCS system manipulation, trouble shooting, link 11 system management, and we are getting into some forms of computer work. PO2 and MS 6A qualified are the ORS and they have to have task management skills, know how a reduced tactical complan works and have an idea of just about everything that happens in the ops room. The PO1 is now getting the job of information management for the ship, what that entails I am not sure cause the first courses are just getting finished  and I am not on a ship anymore. That is just a basic idea of what the NCIOPS do. For certain some of the job is very boring, but some of it is exciting too. AAW warfare is fast paced and stressfull. The NESOPs cover all thing regarding electronic warfare from jamming to counter detection and they also get to work with systems like SIWS, the missiles and guns, missile defence and countermeasures, and they have vast knowledge about weapons, radars platforms and identification of  other countries order of battle. They do Port/STBD lookout and bosn'mate at sea but other than that they don't do anything more than the NCIOPs, we haul lines and close up for upper deck evolutions just like everyone else, and please don't compare us to the NAVCOMMS, two totally different jobs there.
If any one else has anything else to add feel free, by know means did I cover everything for both trades. As for amalgamation, they have mentioned it on and off for many years and I havn't heard anything concrete come out yet.
 Thanks for listening.
Cheers.
Marc. :cdn:
"Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun"

Army of Darkness

Offline Melbatoast

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2006, 11:38:41 »
As for amalgamation, they have mentioned it on and off for many years and I havn't heard anything concrete come out yet.
 Thanks for listening.
Cheers.
Marc. :cdn:

The MOSART briefings earlier in the year not only indicated but said for sure that the ops trades are amalgamating.  It's not a rumour anymore.  But, only at the sub QL5 level, so it won't really effect anyone who's in now.

Offline TAS278

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2006, 13:24:05 »
And along with that thought. You will not be able to pick your trade. You will join as a naval operator and work as a naval operator for 4 years(until your QL5). Then you will write an aptitude test and go through the screen process. This is a reality. Melba is correct, it will not effect anyone currently serving but you will have to work with the new Naval Operators and live in the new ops room. :) W00t Change is good :)
ASW is like chess. Oceanography is the chess board.

Offline Seaman_Navy

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2006, 16:11:37 »
I'm gonna begin my QL 3 NCI Op in March. Do you think I'm gonna be in this new program?

 :cdn:

Offline TAS278

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2006, 06:58:52 »
No if you trade title is NCI Op you are going to be a NCI Op. This is still a few years in planning. One of the major issues will be the divisional system. So they will have to continue to tweak this idea before implementing it.
ASW is like chess. Oceanography is the chess board.

Offline M Feetham

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2006, 09:15:09 »
I'm in the middle of Quebec now and wasn't around for the Mozart brief, thanks for the update.
Marc
"Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun"

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Offline CSonar Op

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2006, 12:09:07 »
Gents,

Some of the discussion here is bordering along the lines of being sensitive in nature. You all joined the service fully aware that divulging sensitive info could be damaging to National Security. I will be monitoring this discussion group forum, failure to comply with this direction will result in my recommendation to the moderator to have your membership terminated, and possible investigative action taken.

Thanks

CPO2 Main
Chief Sonar Op
CFP

Offline M Feetham

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2006, 16:31:01 »
OK folks,
You heard the man, watch what you say and how you say it. Keep comments to the general type nature and do not go into specifics about anything. For anyone looking for more information about trades, you can ask the recruiters, if you know someone in the forces you can ask them questions two. For everybody else. Have a nice weekend.
Ciao.
Marc
"Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun"

Army of Darkness

Offline SHF

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2006, 07:09:13 »
G'day CSONAROp,

I don't see the sensitive or classified information you refer to.  I reviewed all the posts and all the opinions and statements are available on open source.  If you have a concern, you should PM the individuals.  PM me if you want.

Bill
ASW is tough, it's tougher when you're stupid.

Offline Melbatoast

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2006, 10:31:23 »
G'day CSONAROp,

I don't see the sensitive or classified information you refer to.  I reviewed all the posts and all the opinions and statements are available on open source.  If you have a concern, you should PM the individuals.  PM me if you want.

Bill

No, Sir.  You'll notice there is (at least) a post removed in this thread. 

The paradox is that a lot of information deemed sensitive is nonetheless readily available, especially on the internet.  That still isn't going to absolve a person, especially if he or she is involved in the subject in question.  Obviously, it's best not to say anything at all.

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2006, 10:53:34 »
When items borderline OPSEC/PERSEC they are removed, if you feel the post meets the criteria please use the Report to Moderator function so we may review the thread in question. Just don't be vague in the thread itself tell us.

And BTW its up to Mr Bobbitt under the advisement of the DS who has their membership terminated.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2006, 12:08:06 »
CSonar Op, (CWO2 Main),

Welcome to Army.ca.

May I suggest that if you want to use that approach then perhaps you should fill in your profile to reflect the level of authority you are choosing to claim. An innocuous, though trade related, nickname and an empty profile does little to add credibility to your stance.  I would also suggest providing an official point of contact for those interested in these related trades to contact you as the expert source you claim to be, if you wish to contribute as well as "monitor."

Secondly, if you feel that the comments on the board are straying towards an OPSEC line, then perhaps you could provide a complete, clear and "safe" answer to the original question and we can avoid further dancing in the minefield.

Lastly, as noted by Ex-Dragoon, moderation of the site is provided by the staff selected by the site owner.  Please feel free to use the system in place if you have concerns over particular posts.  The staff will react to OPSEC concerns identifed to them.

M. O'Leary
Staff

Offline CSonar Op

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2006, 12:36:30 »
Mr O'Leary,

PM inbound to you.

Thanks

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2006, 14:05:21 »
CSonar Op and SHF I recommend you two take this to PMs in order for you to find some common ground. One of you is a CPO and the other is a Captain and it does no one here any good for you two to be in conflict with one another.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Melbatoast

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2006, 15:33:35 »
When items borderline OPSEC/PERSEC they are removed, if you feel the post meets the criteria please use the Report to Moderator function so we may review the thread in question. Just don't be vague in the thread itself tell us.

And BTW its up to Mr Bobbitt under the advisement of the DS who has their membership terminated.

No no, I have absolutely no problem with the removal and apologize for any vagueness.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 15:37:07 by Melbatoast »

Offline CSonar Op

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2006, 15:48:36 »
Ok folks, here is the scoop. I am the Chief Sonar Op for Can Fleet Pac. I don't have any issues with folks describing trade related items, ie: what a Sonar Op does compared to what an NCIOP. I also don't have an issue with discussing ASW issues; however, what I and some others have issues with, and rightly so, is the fact some of the conversations were getting into current/recent exercises and specific details about them, this is sensitive info that should not be passed through an open forum. Additionally, other comments like the current status of shipboard equipment/systems, and related restrictions, is also sensitive in nature and should not be discussed in an open forum. If my original post sounded a little "over the top" sorry about that, but I take OPSEC very seriously.

If anyone of the sonar trade wishes to discuss current ASW issues such as ASW or sensor issues, please don't hesitate to contact me in the office, or drop by.

Thanks

CPO2 Main
Chief Sonar Op
CFP

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2006, 19:40:58 »
If you have OPSEC concerns please report them promptly to a mod so we can sort it out quickly.

Regards
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

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Offline SHF

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2006, 05:21:28 »
CSONAR and I are in direct contact.  We disagree with each other.  The exercise that I was on involved our aircraft and USN submarines.  It was conducted on a plain voice net with much more information, than I posted, transmitted on plain voice.  I would have happily posted the whole article in a newspaper telling folks what an Aurora can do.  As to the rank, I was once a MWO too and I have flown over 5000 hours in the Aurora.  I know what I can and cannot post.  Too many times in our community we hide our role and training.  I believe we have to sell ourselves when given the opportunity.  We conduct successfully counter narcotics patrols, we find and track friendly and foreign submarines, we surveille the Arctic.  We look for and find illegal immigrants.  We are developing technology and tactics to allow us to fly overland in support of land units.  If information is not designated protected or classified, it can be discussed.  It can be accessed by the public.  If we all stop telling our "stories",  then we don't enjoy this forum.  I will continue to post anecdotes as appropriate. 

Cheers :salute:
SHF
ASW is tough, it's tougher when you're stupid.

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2006, 09:52:18 »
Thank you for the update SHF, now we can get back to the original topic.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Bender842

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2006, 11:28:57 »
Well I want to thank everybody in this thread, you have given me a better insight in the 3 operators trade, so my choice is pretty much done and set for NES op.

I just hope I can make it back in the regular forces before they amalgate the operators trade
Join in the new game that's sweeping the country.  It's called "Bureaucracy".  Everybody stands in a circle.  The first person to do anything loses.

Offline HFXCrow

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2006, 12:20:05 »
after all that NESOP is the winner........

Enjoying the ride and doesn't want to get off

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2006, 12:40:18 »
after all that NESOP is the winner........



Is there a point to your post?
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline M Feetham

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2006, 21:02:46 »
The only good thing I can see coming out of amalgamation is the the NES OP's will be doing AREPS again. If the two trades do amalgamate what happens to spec pay? Do we lose it until the higher ups decide what criteria is required to give it to the new trade. Right now both trades get spec 1, but at different levels, NESOPs get it at the Leading Seaman QL5 level and NCIOPs get it at he Master Seaman PLQ level. Interesting to see how that works out in the future. Hey SHF, I was curious how many gerbils does it take to turn the props on an Aurora anyway? Just kidding, I used to have a neighbor who flew Auroras out of Greenwood as an AESOP. Her and her husband were good people. I am off to the field for a week of fun and activities with the recruits, talk to you all later.
Ciao
Marc :cdn:
"Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun"

Army of Darkness

Offline HFXCrow

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2006, 22:01:33 »
AREPS are radars and NCI OPS should keep them!!!
Enjoying the ride and doesn't want to get off

Offline Melbatoast

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Re: NCI OP vs NES OP
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2006, 22:16:20 »
AREPS are radars and NCI OPS should keep them!!!

Yeah and when's the last time anyone changed those AREPS slides anyway (just kidding!).

The only good thing I can see coming out of amalgamation is the the NES OP's will be doing AREPS again. If the two trades do amalgamate what happens to spec pay? Do we lose it until the higher ups decide what criteria is required to give it to the new trade. Right now both trades get spec 1, but at different levels, NESOPs get it at the Leading Seaman QL5 level and NCIOPs get it at he Master Seaman PLQ level. Interesting to see how that works out in the future. Hey SHF, I was curious how many gerbils does it take to turn the props on an Aurora anyway? Just kidding, I used to have a neighbor who flew Auroras out of Greenwood as an AESOP. Her and her husband were good people. I am off to the field for a week of fun and activities with the recruits, talk to you all later.
Ciao
Marc :cdn:

I don't think the spec pay thing is a big deal.  From the sounds of it the junior amalgamated operators won't be choosing the trade they go into, necessarily.  After their QL4 OJT they will write an aptitude test, and be funnelled into the appropriate stream (which, of course, may be more influenced by needs of the Forces rather than aptitude test results, but it doesn't matter in the end).  I suspect that it also wouldn't take much to give QL5 LS NCIOPs spec 1 to fall in line with the other two operators.  Sonar is also spec 1 at QL5A LS.