Author Topic: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged  (Read 149097 times)

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Offline Nix

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Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« on: July 17, 2006, 14:52:49 »
Whats the min. km distance of separation of spouse and member to be entitled to TD?  If anyone has a copy accessible via internet could you please post the link, thank you.

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Min km distance for TD
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2006, 14:57:54 »
Are you sure you are asking a question or creating something in the Science Fiction literature category?  There is a minimun distance for one to collect TD.  There is nothing in there about separation from spouse.  Separation from spouse is a whole different thing altogether, and it is Separation Allowance.  So are you asking for TD, Separation Allowance or both?  The best person to ask is your Orderly Room.  They have the up to date rulings on all these matters.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2006, 15:00:32 by George Wallace »
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Offline Nix

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Re: Min km distance for TD
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2006, 15:18:13 »
I didn't think they had a seperation allowance anymore? Anyway, what I am looking for specifically is what distance does your spouse have to be from you to retain rations and quarters and receive your TD allowance while you are on course.

I guess it's easier for me to explain rather than people try and guess what the question is.

I am heading to Borden in August for a four month course.  My wife has family close to Borden and its been a while since she was back to visit.  My wife's family is nice, but not so nice to stay with (they are slobs, really bad slobs).  So she is thinking of renting a studio apartment month-to-month in Barrie or somewhere close to Borden rather than stay with family, but doesn't want to screw up my rations and quarters entitlements nor my TD by her renting a place.

I would be staying at the apt most likely on weekends, but not during the week.  I've already spoken with my course super and he could care less about my wife being near by... but I still would rather know the policy than assume anything.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Min km distance for TD
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2006, 15:49:00 »
I am sure that a Clerk is going to tell you that you are going on Course, and you may not be entitled to TD.  If you are getting TD, it will not be enough to support an apartment of any size, let alone a dependant, for that period of time.  Your plan right now looks like you are about to become an Administrative Burden on the CF, as you will be loosing more money than you will be making. 

I have no idea where you get these crazy ideas from?  What Trade are you and how long have you been in the CF?
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Offline Nix

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Re: Min km distance for TD
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2006, 16:07:06 »
I am sure that a Clerk is going to tell you that you are going on Course, and you may not be entitled to TD.  If you are getting TD, it will not be enough to support an apartment of any size, let alone a dependant, for that period of time.  Your plan right now looks like you are about to become an Administrative Burden on the CF, as you will be loosing more money than you will be making. 

I have no idea where you get these crazy ideas from?  What Trade are you and how long have you been in the CF?

I'm sorry but I'm not here to argue, I just asked questions because I would rather find out than assume anything.  I'm sorry if I upset you in some way.

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Offline Shamrock

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Re: Min km distance for TD
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2006, 16:43:58 »
The CBI dealing with separation expense.

Obviously, for the four months, you won't be entitled to a pack and move, so any relocation of your partner will be on your own dime.  You won't be entitled to TD but may be entitled to separation expense. 

My wife and I are in a similar situation: she's attending a course in Borden and while she's there, I'm staying with family near enough to permit weekend visits.  Given that I'm on LWOP, we're down to one income.  We've had to tighten our financial strings and paying rent at a second location in addition to transportation costs is rough.  We are not, however, an administrative burden to the CF.  We just value each other over money.

I can't tell how you're wife's proximity to Borden will interfere with your expense.  Good luck.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Min km distance for TD
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2006, 16:47:33 »
Start here:

TRANSPORTATION AND TRAVELLING EXPENSES
http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=209.335&Chapter=209

See

Section 3 - Travelling Expenses
209.30 - ENTITLEMENT AND INSTRUCTION

209.997 - SEPARATION EXPENSE

Google can be your friend.  You can always take a published regulation to the Orderly Room and ask what it means, it tough to do that with an opinion expressed by an anonymous internet poster.

Offline nodeg

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Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2007, 21:57:01 »
I'm on TD for a 2 week course in Ottawa and are staying in a hotel.  Last week the tp WO doubled us all up to save the forces a couple bucks(and it's not even our units' fin code, but that's another story).  When asked to his reasoning, he said he was looking for a Mastered under 'Resource Management'.  I was under the understanding that according to QR&O I-28 we were all entitled to a single room if available(our ranks go from CPL 3 to WO).  Am I right, or is a hotel not considered single quarters?  Is there any other doc that would clarify this at all?  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Edit to merge. mm


« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 09:02:30 by mariomike »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 22:06:30 »
..........  When asked to his reasoning, he said he was looking for a Mastered under 'Resource Management'.

He really sounds like an a$$hat to me.  That was a stupid thing for him to say, and if true, I hope his superiors think so too and nail him for it.

  I was under the understanding that according to QR&O I-28 we were all entitled to a single room if available(our ranks go from CPL 3 to WO).  Am I right, or is a hotel not considered single quarters?  Is there any other doc that would clarify this at all? 

Hotels are not single quarters, and you are not necessarily "entitled" to a single room.  Not being a RMS Clerk, I will have to defer to their expertise, but you may at this very moment have the document in your hand stating what you are entitled to, or not entitled to.   Just be glad he didn't book you into quarters out at Connaught Ranges.   >:D
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 22:15:28 by George Wallace »
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2007, 22:13:50 »
The CFTDI dictates what CF members are entitled to.  Look it up on the DIN (I don't have it memorized).

I've also doubled up in rooms on TD, but not for a number of years.

And on a related note:  Fiscal prudence has nothing to do with "whose fin code is paying".  Ultimately, every penny the CF spends comes from taxes *  - regardless of the fin code.  So the fact that it may be another DND/CF budget paying is irrelevant - you should spend as if it's your own money.


(* Yes, yes, I know DND generates some respendable revenues through a variety of means, but the legal authority for that is still through Parliament.  Let's not confuse the issue...)
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Offline nodeg

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 22:36:15 »
I just found the CFTDTI, which seems to say that I'm entitled to a single room when available:

http://www.dnd.ca/dgcb/dcba/engraph/download_e.asp?docid=67&sidesection=2&sidecat=7

Offline FinClk

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 17:05:10 »
No your not, as a member of the CF all you are entitled to is to be provided a roof over your head with a bed and facilities. So if the good WO wanted he could of put 4 of you in a room using cots.

Crying foul because you had to share a room, give me a break.

Offline nodeg

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2007, 17:23:30 »
No your not, as a member of the CF all you are entitled to is to be provided a roof over your head with a bed and facilities. So if the good WO wanted he could of put 4 of you in a room using cots.

Crying foul because you had to share a room, give me a break.
Could you give me a source for that?  I can't seem to find it in any CF directive or order.  In actuality if he put us 4 to a room in cots when they had single rooms(in barracks) available, he would be going against an entitlement in the QR&Os... assuming we were entitled to single quarters.  You can't waive an entitlement without cause just because you want to. 

That being said, from what I can see in the CFTDI's the standard for TD in commercial accommodation is a single room at government rate if available(which it was before we got kicked out by our CofC).  If the CFTDI's say that is the standard, then can they go against the CFTDI for the sake of budget at the detriment of the troops?

I know this seems like I am crying over having to share a room, but you only see the tip of the ice.  This whole trip has been a bit of a circus, and I'm just looking to see if I can add this to a long list of things going on a redress of grievance I am preparing on behalf of the Junior Ranks.  Under normal circumstances I would be more than happy to share a room... even with 3 other guys on cots.  For the record we all just came back from Wainwright sharing 12 to a mod-tent, or crammed in a AFV so most of us would consider sleeping in any place with plumbing pretty sweet.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2007, 19:30:45 »
Stop Right Now!  Do you realize what you have just said and put into print on an OPEN SOURCE Internet Site?

........... and I'm just looking to see if I can add this to a long list of things going on a redress of grievance I am preparing on behalf of the Junior Ranks. 

You have gone past the point of whining, and are now to the point of conspiring to commit Muntiny, a Chargable Offence under the NDA.  Perhaps it is time for you to come to your senses and stop being a `Barrackroom Lawyer` and stop trying to twist the CFAOs, QR&Os, and DAODs to suit your warped ideas of how a junior member of the CF should be treated or what entitlements they are entitled to.  It is time for you and your fellow `Mutineers` to stop and return to being `Professional`Soldiers, before you are indeed charged.
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Offline nodeg

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2007, 20:15:48 »
Stop Right Now!  Do you realize what you have just said and put into print on an OPEN SOURCE Internet Site?

You have gone past the point of whining, and are now to the point of conspiring to commit Muntiny, a Chargable Offence under the NDA.  Perhaps it is time for you to come to your senses and stop being a `Barrackroom Lawyer` and stop trying to twist the CFAOs, QR&Os, and DAODs to suit your warped ideas of how a junior member of the CF should be treated or what entitlements they are entitled to.  It is time for you and your fellow `Mutineers` to stop and return to being `Professional`Soldiers, before you are indeed charged.
*sigh*  There is nothing illegal about placing a redress of grievance.  To clarify, I am considering submitting this grievance based on actions I have observed effecting myself and junior ranks members of the CF.  Mutiny would be convincing these junior ranks to submit their own grievances.  I appreciate your stance against Barrackroom lawyering(though calling me the ring-leader of a mutiny is no better), but I assure you I have no "warped" ideas of how a junior member of the CF should be treated.  If I KNEW that I was entitled to my own room (or wasn't), I wouldn't be here.

I'm beginning to think this will turn into a flame fest, but I'll try my question again:

According to CFTDI's members staying in commercial accommodations "Where available, the standard for accommodation is a single room."  Does this constitute an entitlement?

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2007, 20:19:50 »
Disregard, beat me to the punch :P
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 20:24:38 by niceasdrhuxtable »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2007, 20:20:33 »
*sigh*  There is nothing illegal about placing a redress of grievance.  To clarify, I am considering submitting this grievance based on actions I have observed effecting myself and junior ranks members of the CF.  Mutiny would be convincing these junior ranks to submit their own grievances. 

I guess you didn`t read what you wrote and what I quoted:


........... and I'm just looking to see if I can add this to a long list of things going on a redress of grievance I am preparing on behalf of the Junior Ranks

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2007, 20:35:59 »
It's a two week course.

Get over it!

Lots worse stuff will happen in the rest of your career.

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Offline airmich

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2007, 20:56:41 »
PLUS the fact that you get TD and meals for 2 weeks AND you get someone else to make your bed and clean your bathroom for you!  :D
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Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2007, 01:46:35 »
There's no such thing as a "Class Action Redress". 

Who appointed you to act "on behalf of" the JR's?  Did they all take a vote?  If not, did the sky open up and a great booming voice tell you to act on their behalf?

I don't know the details or merits of your Redress (nor am I terribly interested) - but get it into your head that it is YOUR redress - not the JR's.  Redresses are about what happened to YOU, NOT/NOT you and your buddies.

As far as "the standard" goes, that's nice.  Nowhere in your link did I see where it states that a single room is "the minimal standard"

Besides which, you must have missed THIS part, on page 2 of the document:

Quote
(2)   The CFTDTI was developed within the Travel Modernization framework implemented throughout the Government of Canada.  It increases the level of discretion and latitude of commanding officers, while providing the required flexibility to accommodate legitimate travel circumstances that, in their opinion, justify the reimbursement of actual and reasonable expenses to a member on TD/travel.

Sounds to me like your Warrant is just exercising discretion on behalf of your CO, as it is his duty to do, and in his opinion sharing a room constitutes a reasonable expense.

Pick a good room mate, learn lots on your course, and don't be a barrack room lawyer - it never solves anything.
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Offline IN HOC SIGNO

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2007, 02:06:34 »
You're not in a hoochie out in the field....be happy!  ;)

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2007, 10:44:44 »
This whole thead can be summed up with...

 :brickwall:

Try thinking of it this way:  "The less money I waste on my own hotel room, the more money we have for operations, new kit, bullets, or...." and be happy.  Was the WO sarcastic in his response?  If it were me, I would have had a different answer for you...most Snr NCOs/WOs aren't too keen on being questioned on this stuff.  The Crown is putting you up in a hotel, with TD to boot (tax free $).  Entitlement?  As a tax payer myself, I would prefer to see my $ go to operational things for all Environments rather than 'private hotel rooms'.  Here's an idea;  go to the Legion and ask the guys with grey hair around the place what they think you should do.  I am sure they had this problem in WWII or Korea.   ::)

As for your "Unit Legal Advisor"  ::) aspirations...perhaps reading all of QR & O Vol 1, Ch 7 is in order. 

QR & O Vol 1, Article 7.04 (3) states: A grievance may not be submitted jointly with any other member.

If you haven't yet...read http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol1/tofc07_e.asp

And...I hope your WO isn't on this site...you provided enough info about where you have been and where you are going now to show up on the radar to anyone in your CoC (perhaps).

I have put my own people in seperate rooms "when I could" and I have also put them in shared rooms "when I couldn't".  Did you consider that...its getting close to the end of the FY and...maybe the unit's (one providing the Fin Code) unit budget is starting to get tight and they adjusted for this??



« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 10:49:36 by Jimmy4Now »
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Offline FinClk

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2007, 12:08:49 »
According to CFTDI's members staying in commercial accommodations "Where available, the standard for accommodation is a single room."  Does this constitute an entitlement?
Yes if by yourself - meaning that a person travelling by themselves cannot get a double room or a penthouse. Seriously, give your head a shake as I am not which organization you believe you are part of.

As far as SQ's, if Ottawa had any available and for examples sake they were dorms, that's where you would be staying as that is all that is required.

Instead of whining on internet forums, why not ask your claims people and see what they say.


Offline FinClk

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2007, 12:26:36 »
Could you give me a source for that?  I can't seem to find it in any CF directive or order.  In actuality if he put us 4 to a room in cots when they had single rooms(in barracks) available, he would be going against an entitlement in the QR&Os... assuming we were entitled to single quarters.  You can't waive an entitlement without cause just because you want to.

Funny, it was located in the very same reference you providing on this forum, conevient isn't it. If you are going to quote something, quote it in its entirety and not just paraphrasing in attempt to meet your selfish indlugences:
Quote
(1)   In accordance with CFAO 28-1 and 209-4, http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/028-01_e.asp and http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/209-04_e.asp, when travel is related to activities held on a military or government facility where accommodation is available, such accommodation shall be utilized.  If accommodation is not available, the Government Hotel Directory shall serve as a guide for the cost, location and selection of accommodation.  Where available, the standard for accommodation is a single room.  Members shall request the government accommodation rate at the time of booking.

However as you gratiously state the entitlement in QR&O's would you be so kind as to provide that very reference?

Unlike others though, I will encourage you to submit that redress you mention. Seriously, please do and then do provide us with feedback from its outcome.

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2007, 13:23:28 »
...

Unlike others though, I will encourage you to submit that redress you mention. Seriously, please do and then do provide us with feedback from its outcome.


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