Author Topic: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged  (Read 146557 times)

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Offline IN HOC SIGNO

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2007, 15:17:31 »
Is he entitled to have his ears repaired after they get pinned back by his RSM? ;D

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2007, 15:18:57 »
Is he entitled to have his ears repaired after they get pinned back by his RSM? ;D

He may get them repaired, but he would then be charged with "Self Inflicted Injuries".
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2007, 16:26:14 »
Yes if by yourself - meaning that a person travelling by themselves cannot get a double room or a penthouse. Seriously, give your head a shake as I am not which organization you believe you are part of.

As far as SQ's, if Ottawa had any available and for examples sake they were dorms, that's where you would be staying as that is all that is required.

Instead of whining on internet forums, why not ask your claims people and see what they say.


I'm no expert, but the ref seems clear that he is entitled to a single room, or at least can be easily interpreted that way.  And nowhere it states that this policy applies when only 1 pers travels. 

Personnally, I've never been on TD with someone else in my room.

EDIT:  If you tell me it is intented for 1 guy/gal traveling, please find me the document that lay the entitlements for more than 1 pers traveling.

Max
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 16:34:19 by SupersonicMax »

Offline nodeg

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2007, 16:32:13 »
Wow.  This has turned a bit comical.  I'm going to clear up a few misconceptions.

1. As I clarified a few replies up, I have no intention of filing a group grievance.  I also have no intentions of inciting a mutiny.  I realize that this misconception was caused by bad phrasing on my part, and I apologise.

2. The grievance actually had little to do with room entitlement.  If there was an entitlement, it would have been mentioned in the grievance but only anecdotally.

3. I realize that living 2 to a room is not a hardship, and am very happy with my room-mate.  You people are going off without knowing the whole story.   I was only asking a simple question.  The answer was either "yes it's an entitlement," or "no it isn't."  I'm honestly not a whining brat.

Anyway, I agree that it likely isn't an entitlement(though it is ambiguous) . Thanks to those of you who tried being helpful instead of flaming... heck, even those of you who tried being helpful and then flamed.  The rest of you are trolls :P  I'm going to go swim in the pool.  Have a good one guys.

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2007, 16:35:04 »
I'm no expert, but the ref seems clear that he is entitled to a single room, or at least can be easily interpreted that way.  And nowhere it states that this policy applies when only 1 pers travels. 

Personnally, I've never been on TD with someone else in my room.

Max

Max, i dont have the reference handy as i am not at work but i have had to deal with this recently. Submariners and Aircrew are entitled to a room by themselves. Base or hotel is irrelevant.

Offline FinClk

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2007, 16:47:56 »
You people are going off without knowing the whole story.   I was only asking a simple question.  The answer was either "yes it's an entitlement," or "no it isn't."  I'm honestly not a whining brat.
Then know that if you do not want to be misinterpreted you should provide the whole story. And I gave you the answer but you went on about it, so don't try to blame anyone other then yourself on this forum for the lack of either intent or clarity of your posts.

As far as clarity, it is there and if anyone has doubts please go ahead and query through your respective chains. Just don't forget that any TD is to be conducted in the most practical and economical means even if it means sharing a room with 3 other guyz at the sleazy motel.

What Aviator mentions is due to the living conditions they must endure in the conduct of their duties away from home, not TD in the purist form.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2007, 16:53:33 »
Then know that if you do not want to be misinterpreted you should provide the whole story. And I gave you the answer but you went on about it, so don't try to blame anyone other then yourself on this forum for the lack of either intent or clarity of your posts.

As far as clarity, it is there and if anyone has doubts please go ahead and query through your respective chains. Just don't forget that any TD is to be conducted in the most practical and economical means even if it means sharing a room with 3 other guyz at the sleazy motel.

What Aviator mentions is due to the living conditions they must endure in the conduct of their duties away from home, not TD in the purist form.

I personnally think the policies are designed in a way to have a balance between member's QOL and Economical means for the CF. 

Extract from the CFTDTI, Section 1, policy Framework:

Quote
(4)   As leaders and managers, COs are accountable under the Financial Administration Act for the decisions made regarding the reimbursement of travel expenses.  COs are responsible for exercising their authorities in accordance with the framework and the FAA in the best interest of the CF and its members.

To be as economical as possible is not the only factor in CF's financial policies.

Max

aesop081

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2007, 16:57:24 »


To be as economical as possible is not the only factor in CF's financial policies.



Quite right but it is often the overriding concern.  To use your argument of "balance" , in this case, the unit CO may have very well established financial concerns as a priority as seems to be his/her prerogative.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2007, 17:08:51 »
Quite right but it is often the overriding concern.  To use your argument of "balance" , in this case, the unit CO may have very well established financial concerns as a priority as seems to be his/her prerogative.

My interpretation of all that is that the CO cannot give less that what the policies outline.  Am I right or right out in the left field?

Max

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2007, 17:15:25 »
My interpretation of all that is that the CO cannot give less that what the policies outline.  Am I right or right out in the left field?

Max

Left Field.

Your CO has budget that he must keep.  If it looks like he is going over budget, he has to cut somewhere.  Money still makes the world go round.  Money still does not grow on trees.
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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2007, 17:16:05 »
My interpretation of all that is that the CO cannot give less that what the policies outline.  Am I right or right out in the left field?

Max

I understand what you are saying Max. I'm not arguing with you. My interpretation is different than yours and i do not think that what was posted here as far as extracts from the policy, is clear enough to determine which one of us is right. This is one of those cases where i walk to my SOR and ask the CC.

What i do know is that i am entitled to my own room, wether on base or comercial lodging. We dealt with this last year when i went to Sicily for exercise. Aircrew and submariners are entitled to their own rooms.  I cant speak for others therefore i wont. When CFB Halifax tried to stick me in A-block with 6 other people, they had to change their tune when they figured out i was aircrew. They even showed me the policy that applied.  They did not have any single rooms available so they had to give me a 2-man room all by myself.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2007, 17:18:39 »
Left Field.

Your CO has budget that he must keep.  If it looks like he is going over budget, he has to cut somewhere.  Money still makes the world go round.  Money still does not grow on trees.

Then policies are just suggestions?

Max

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2007, 17:23:49 »
Then policies are just suggestions?

Max


Max.....my personal feeling is that alot of fiscal policie are written vaguely for a reason. It leaves room for managers / COs to make decisions depending on their budget situations.


Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2007, 17:43:27 »
*sigh*  There is nothing illegal about placing a redress of grievance.  To clarify, I am considering submitting this grievance based on actions I have observed effecting myself and junior ranks members of the CF.  Mutiny would be convincing these junior ranks to submit their own grievances.  I appreciate your stance against Barrackroom lawyering(though calling me the ring-leader of a mutiny is no better), but I assure you I have no "warped" ideas of how a junior member of the CF should be treated.  If I KNEW that I was entitled to my own room (or wasn't), I wouldn't be here.

I'm beginning to think this will turn into a flame fest, but I'll try my question again:

According to CFTDI's members staying in commercial accommodations "Where available, the standard for accommodation is a single room."  Does this constitute an entitlement?

I suggest that you ask any CAP candidates whether they are entitled to single rooms while TD'd to Gagetown for their course. Or many other course candidates who find themselves 8 per room ... despite their possibly being a vacant single room in singles quarters. You ARE NOT entitled to a single room as a student on course simply because there is one available.

Fact is ... you are on course. You stay in whatever accomodations are arranged for the students on that course.

I'd also respectfully suggest to you that you scroll up a tad bit from the quote that you keep pulling out of the CFTDI and read the entireity of it:

Section 3:

"Accomodations"

Quote
·   "semi-permanent accommodation" – accommodation obtainable at weekly or monthly rates which provides sleeping, meal preparation and refrigeration facilities, i.e. Les Suites Ottawa.

Now, I may be mistaken, but I'd argue that the location where you are actually taking your course ... arranged your accomodations for you. I'm also quite sure that they booked them on a weekly/monthly rate (such as Ottawa does for members posted to that location IR).

Hint: Les Suites ... is a hotel facility.

Now, please don't pull the "but my  our hotel room doesn't have
Quote
meal preparation and refrigeration facilities
card because, if that's the case, then your entitlement to the meal rate kicks in (if the course has not already arranged to have your meals provided by other means) as per this same CFTDI.

Long story short -- you are a student on course. If that course finds it more cost effective to accomodate you in a pre-arranged hotel room, more than one per room ... that's quite acceptable -- and you are certainly being treated NO differently than thousands of other CF members who proceed on course.

BTW ... some roto zero pers a few years ago, upon initial deployment, were accomodated in hotel rooms overseas for an extended time period .... many of them double up in those hotel rooms.

Good luck with your "class action" ...  ::)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 17:46:41 by ArmyVern »
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Offline IN HOC SIGNO

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2007, 18:02:36 »
He tuned out and went to lie by the pool in his sub standard accomodations after calling us all a bunch of trolls....is there any use keeping this inane conversation going? ::)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 18:40:33 by IN HOC SIGNO »

Offline Aden_Gatling

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2007, 18:37:34 »

Max.....my personal feeling is that alot of fiscal policie are written vaguely for a reason. It leaves room for managers / COs to make decisions depending on their budget situations.

IIRC, on the joining instructions for Sea Survival there is some verbiage to the effect that a specific exemption to the policy has been requested and approved in order to house candidates in lower-than-entitled standard (in that case 2 per room).  In my mind, that suggests that a specific exemption is required, not just a WO's discretion (which is what was suggested).  Unless perhaps the Aircrew policy is written differently (??)
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2007, 18:58:38 »
Last year while on course in Ottawa with 3 other people from my unit I was place in my own room in a Best Western, even had a rental car!

I was also forced to share a cabin at the Tigh-na-mara in parksville with 2 other people while doing sub trials....  2 OTHER PEOPLE!!

I had to share my closet in Comox with another guy while on sea survival

I had to share my accommodations with a squirrel on BSERE

Does any of that matter?  No.

This guy needs some kleenex  :crybaby:  you get what you get and that's it.  My feeling is that he dislikes his roomie!  He is also leading his junior personnel down the wrong path.



Offline FinClk

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2007, 19:09:52 »
My interpretation of all that is that the CO cannot give less that what the policies outline.  Am I right or right out in the left field?

Max
I do not completely agree with George, I think you are somewhere in the middle. Your rright, if the policy states you are entitled then so be it the CO must agree to expend the funds accordingly or not send you. However, no where is it stated that each individual is entitled to a single room. CFTDTI's are written in the singular term and are intended to adress an individual proceeding on TD (as its name implies).

The policy for lodgings is meant to provide with commercial lodgings only if Military or Government accommodations are not available. Therefore not leaving you without any accomodation entitlement in the event SQ's were not available.

Aviator recommends you ask your CC and I am telling you just that as a CC myself. If you want to challenge the regulations then do so as ranting about them in an internet forum won't get you anything. Fact is you would and will get the very same answer I provided here and will only result in being perceived as someone who is attempting to bend the interpretation of the rules to suit your personal agenda as they are clear to everyone else out there (except maybe those by the pool).

Seriously though, all who seem to be confused by this entitlement should consider that SQ dorms are suitable accommodations for CF members, let alone a hotel room. You make the pick.

Not pointing anyone out, but hopefully the self-serving attitudes as displayed in this thread are not indicative of the general attitude throughout their service. Those who normally display these traits are all people I would not want to trust to cover my back with any type of weapon.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2007, 19:36:31 »
I do not completely agree with George, I think you are somewhere in the middle. Your rright, if the policy states you are entitled then so be it the CO must agree to expend the funds accordingly or not send you. However, no where is it stated that each individual is entitled to a single room. CFTDTI's are written in the singular term and are intended to adress an individual proceeding on TD (as its name implies).

The policy for lodgings is meant to provide with commercial lodgings only if Military or Government accommodations are not available. Therefore not leaving you without any accomodation entitlement in the event SQ's were not available.

Aviator recommends you ask your CC and I am telling you just that as a CC myself. If you want to challenge the regulations then do so as ranting about them in an internet forum won't get you anything. Fact is you would and will get the very same answer I provided here and will only result in being perceived as someone who is attempting to bend the interpretation of the rules to suit your personal agenda as they are clear to everyone else out there (except maybe those by the pool).

Seriously though, all who seem to be confused by this entitlement should consider that SQ dorms are suitable accommodations for CF members, let alone a hotel room. You make the pick.

Not pointing anyone out, but hopefully the self-serving attitudes as displayed in this thread are not indicative of the general attitude throughout their service. Those who normally display these traits are all people I would not want to trust to cover my back with any type of weapon.

PO2FinClk, I agree with your post, however, I find it somewhat unusual that there is nothing written (to my knowledge) about sending multiple members on TD.  All it says is if a member goes on TD, he is entitled to a single room accomodation if SQs aren't available.  With my interpretation, it doesn't matter if you're by yourself or with other members, you are still entitled to what the policy outlines.  But that's just my interpretation.

EDIT:  I'm not ranting about the policies, just trying to clarify it.  I'm not doing it to support the original poster. 

I have nothing against SQ dorms.

Max
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 19:45:28 by SupersonicMax »

Offline Aden_Gatling

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2007, 19:37:55 »
Personally, I wouldn't/didn't care and I think the original poster needs to seriously reconsider which fights he chooses. Nonetheless, this part of his post (assuming it's the whole truth) smacks of careerism, and might be a legitimate gripe:

When asked to his reasoning, he said he was looking for a Mastered under 'Resource Management'.
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Offline IN HOC SIGNO

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2007, 19:47:54 »
Personally, I wouldn't/didn't care and I think the original poster needs to seriously reconsider which fights he chooses. Nonetheless, this part of his post (assuming it's the whole truth) smacks of careerism, and might be a legitimate gripe:


sounds like sarcasm to me.....he might of also said "because I said so"...
When I was a young subbie our XO used to say "the answer is no......now you go and find out why and come back and tell me....he knew his stuff and wanted us to know ours as well."

Offline Aden_Gatling

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2007, 20:10:38 »
sounds like sarcasm to me.....he might of also said "because I said so"...
When I was a young subbie our XO used to say "the answer is no......now you go and find out why and come back and tell me....he knew his stuff and wanted us to know ours as well."

That did occur to me, but at the same time I found it harder to believe that a sarcastic comment would be the subject of grievance (then again, even I have seen things far more petty than that ....  :-\ )
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Offline IN HOC SIGNO

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Re: Accommodation entitlement while on TD
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2007, 06:07:30 »
Quote from: I_am_John_Galt link=topic=6W8368.msg641208#msg641208 date=1196212238
That did occur to me, but at the same time I found it harder to believe that a sarcastic comment would be the subject of grievance (then again, even I have seen things far more petty than that ....  :-\ )

Oh man, we are living in the "age of petty." We had an Admin Assistant when I was in Pet was going to file a grievance with the Union because all us males in the office left the toilet seat up and she considered that a workplace hazard! Then there was a guy I worked with at an unnamed base who was an officer (commissioned from the ranks too not a snotter) who filed a harrassment complaint against his boss (a busy major) because he didn't say good morning to him and ask him how he was doing on several occassions? Man in the old days I was glad if the "two and a half" ignored me.....it meant he wasn't going to download any crap on me that day.

Offline Nero

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Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2009, 14:03:40 »
I've been trying to figure out how the whole TD system truely works and no one in my CoC has been able to give me a straight answer with regards to TD.

My question is, if my employing unit is in city A, and I am require to commute to city B on a daily basis for work by PMV, first, am I eligible for TD? Secondly, am I eligible for the high kilometric rate?

I've read the CFTDTIs and was told that the information in there is not applicable if you're not on TD. When I look up the definition of TD in CMP 20/04 it states:

d. Temporary Duty – Reserve Force (TD – Res F). TD is used when a
member is required to attend a course or perform a duty, for a period of
six months or less, at a place outside the location of the member’s home
unit. TD includes the travelling time to the place of TD and return;

My home unit, and, according to my Class B Statement of understanding, is in City A. Would that not mean that I am eligible for TD? Is there any other documents I should look up in order to understand how the system works?

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Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2009, 14:07:11 »
If you're using your own vehicle daily to perform your duty, I'd think that's enough justification for you to get your own CFR'd vehicle to use. I believe TD is used when you're sleeping away from home, as compensation for increased meal and incidental costs, not daily trips.