Author Topic: Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged  (Read 146635 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nero

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 277
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2009, 14:17:16 »
I wish it were as simple as that. If it is not provided?

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2009, 15:43:26 »
I wish it were as simple as that. If it is not provided?

You do not get TD for daily comutes.

Offline GAP

  • Semper Fi
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 208,020
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,922
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2009, 16:05:45 »
Quote
required to attend a course or perform a duty

This is what you need to define....are you "required" and if so does it qualify....
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline dapaterson

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 408,430
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,633
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2009, 16:34:02 »
No high rate.  Not TD.  You are eligible for a commuting allowance at low rate.

Look at CBI 209.045 - http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/doc/209-01.pdf

You are entitled to low rate both ways for the shortest possible distance.

This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Nero

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 277
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2009, 16:37:22 »
Quote
This is what you need to define....are you "required" and if so does it qualify....

I am required as I am teaching a course in city B, whereas my employing unit is in City A.

Offline Nero

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 277
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2009, 16:39:17 »
Quote
No high rate.  Not TD.  You are eligible for a commuting allowance at low rate.

When does the high rate apply?

Offline dapaterson

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 408,430
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,633
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2009, 16:46:57 »
High rate is for TD with an overnight stay, when it's the most cost-efficient option.

In this case, your entitlement is for Reserve Commuting Allowance.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 317,210
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,651
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2009, 16:54:59 »
PMV Travel Waiver and Cost Comparison Worksheet

Quote
       Where a member requests to take a PMV in lieu of the most cost efficient
and practical mode of travel (usually commercial air plus taxi/bus) as determined
by the CO, the member may be reimbursed the high kilometric rate up to the cost
of the most efficient and practical mode of transportation. Members receive the
lesser of either the cost of the normal mode of transportation (including meals
and incidentals for the first day of each journey) or high rate mileage.

Offline Occam

    Go RRRRRRRREDBLACKS!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 92,965
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,004
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2009, 17:05:54 »
You'll have to wait until Monday for proof of this, but I do recall a group of members who successfully managed to get high kilometric rate paid for some (or all) of their travel costs when they were directed to attend a civilian course in the same city, but at a different location of work than normal.  To be precise, they attended training at a civilian institution.  Whether they were paid none, some or all of their kilometres at high rate depended on where they lived in relation to both their normal place of work and their temporary place of work.  I'm going off memory here but I think I have all the facts correct.

Stand by until Monday and I'll give you a DWAN link to the precedent for this one.


Offline Nero

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 277
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2009, 18:17:25 »
Alright, thanks in advance Occam.

Does anyone know at what point overnight stay (and thus TD) is supposed to be granted? For example, is there a distance or something which, if you're required to work past away from your home unit/emoloying unit, you are entitled to TD/over night stay?

At which point is TD entitled? and if its only entitled if you stay overnight, at which point is overnight stay entitled?

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 433,455
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,548
  • Crewman
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2009, 18:36:21 »
Alright, thanks in advance Occam.

Does anyone know at what point overnight stay (and thus TD) is supposed to be granted? For example, is there a distance or something which, if you're required to work past away from your home unit/emoloying unit, you are entitled to TD/over night stay?

At which point is TD entitled? and if its only entitled if you stay overnight, at which point is overnight stay entitled?

A couple of points that have been bothering me.  One:  I am under the impression that when one is on TD, there is no longer a "LOW" rate.  There is only ONE rate.

Second:  To be on TD you will require a Fin Code.  That is given to you in one of several ways.  Two ways may be: it was either given to you by your Command, for example: LFCA, or from your Unit who will have Fin Codes for Training Events that they have budgeted for when drawing up their Training Plan and Budget for the Next Fiscal Year.  That means that last year, your Unit would have had to "budget" for such an event.  Other sources of the Fin Code you may receive for this TD, may be from another Command, such as the CFRG, or from perhaps from a National source tasking. 

If you have NO Fin Code, then everything is out of your pocket.  Even with a Fin Code, you may still have to pay for some of the expenses out of pocket.  We have three pers who are going on a Crse in Toronto.  They have a Fin Code that covers the Crse fee of $800, but they must pay for their own accommodations out of their pockets. 
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 317,210
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,651
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2009, 19:15:59 »
Just because he hasn't been given financial consideration and a Fin Code for travel expense to be billed against doesn't means he's not entitled.  Finding the right regulations is often the first step in approaching admin staff on such an issue.

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 433,455
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,548
  • Crewman
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2009, 19:31:44 »
Just because he hasn't been given financial consideration and a Fin Code for travel expense to be billed against doesn't means he's not entitled.  Finding the right regulations is often the first step in approaching admin staff on such an issue.


Basically that is the advice he should be given.  To fo to his OR staff and OPs Staff and find out what regulations, authorization, Fin Codes, Route Letters, etc. he requires for this.  We can speculate all we want here, but we have no idea of what Message or such may have been given, to send him on this 'tasking'.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Occam

    Go RRRRRRRREDBLACKS!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 92,965
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,004
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2009, 19:43:07 »
Things should be a bit clearer when I'm able to post the link to the e-mail trail/message dealing with this issue on Monday.  It's bookmarked at work.

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2009, 19:51:30 »
Are you traveling from A to B for a course ?

If so, check your course loading message from the phrase " pers attending subject course from the ___________ area will do so without the benefit of TD allowance" or words to the effect.

Offline Nero

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 277
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2009, 20:10:17 »
Well, no. Whats happening is, I signed onto the contract to teach on some courses in city A and myunit of employment is in city A. The first course finished, no problems there. The second one started, but this time, its being run in city B and I travel there daily to teach. Im wondering what I'm eligible for.

Quote
Basically that is the advice he should be given.  To fo to his OR staff and OPs Staff and find out what regulations, authorization, Fin Codes, Route Letters, etc. he requires for this.  We can speculate all we want here, but we have no idea of what Message or such may have been given, to send him on this 'tasking'.

The reason I braught it to the site is because the only thing the OR would tell me is that I'm not eligible for TD because accomodation is not provided and said the reference to this is probably somewhere buried within the DIN, but they could not point me to a reference.

As for the kilometric rate, myself and others whos employing unit is in City A are driving our own vehicles to city B for employment, and a CFRd vehicle is not often provided to us for this so I was wondering whether we were entitled to the high kilometric rate or not.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 20:17:27 by Forgotten_Hero »

Offline exgunnertdo

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 11,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 302
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2009, 20:11:42 »
One factor that could be at play is the geographic region for the cities in question.  One can drive from one city to the other and still be in the same geographic region.  If you leave the geographic region, you should be on TD, and be given R&Q.  You'll have to find the geographic region for your normal workplace (treasury board regs, I think?).  If the loc of the course is within that region, then no TD.  But, you should be entitled MTEC, I think.  Where I work, we get MTEC for mileage (high rate) if we're working away from our normal location.

But at the very least, you should be getting commuting assistance (low rate), I would think.
"Leave the Artillerymen alone, they are an obstinate lot. . ."
"God fights on the side with the best artillery"
- Napoleon

Offline Nero

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 277
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2009, 20:19:51 »
The two cities are over 100km appart. I've been trying to figure out how the regions are split up but I had no success.

Quote
Where I work, we get MTEC for mileage (high rate) if we're working away from our normal location.

That makes sense to me. I was told by OR that the high rate only applies if I am on TD though, hence throwing me back into my initial conundrum.

Offline Ditch

  • Established 1998
  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 26,982
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,366
  • I routinely step in it, but like conflict...
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2009, 20:37:28 »
You took this Class-B contract right?  You weren't forced into taking it, and you're not being sent on a TD tasking to Meaford, Petawawa or Gagetown, right?  TD = sent away on a tasking, provided with accomodations or a FIN code to provide rations and quarters.

If you are on a regular PRes contract to instruct on a full time CO-OP course,etc - you're not on TD.  If you have to drive a long way - ask for commuting assistance. 

If you have to drive 100kms each day - maybe you should reconsider this tasking.  That's a long commute.
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline SGT-RMSCLK

  • Member
  • ****
  • 9,291
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 193
  • Retired
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2009, 10:39:52 »
Without all the details it is hard to give a proper answer.  But, from what I can glean from the above posts, I would have to say that you should be submitting an MTEC (Minor Travel Expense Claim) for each day.  This would give you high rate round trip each day plus a meal or two depending on the time of departure and return.  If you are not staying overnight (past midnight) you are not on TD, therefore not entitled to the benefits that go with TD status.

Offline Nero

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 277
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2009, 13:35:50 »
Thanks for the info Sgt. Would you be able to point me to something I can print off to substantiate this? Without substantiation it'll get denied right in the OR.

Offline Occam

    Go RRRRRRRREDBLACKS!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 92,965
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,004
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #71 on: April 27, 2009, 08:46:35 »
Found it - and it was also on this site all along as well.  I was close, but not entirely correct.

See the message posted at http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,70878.0.html.

The message can also be found on the DWAN at http://halifax.mil.ca/TRADES/NAVCOM/Documents/GeneralAllowanceClaimUpdate.doc

The way I read it, if your temporary place of employment is beyond (as in more distant) than your regular place of employment, you are entitled to high rate for the total distance less the distance between your home and regular place of employment.

If your temporary place of employment is closer to your home than your regular place of work, then you get nothing as it is along the way to your regular place of work and you're expected to foot the bill for travel to your regular place of work.

Offline Occam

    Go RRRRRRRREDBLACKS!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 92,965
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,004
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2009, 09:02:18 »
Here's the applicable section of the Canadian Forces Temporary Duty Instruction (CFTDI) located at http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/dgcb/dcba/engraph/download_e.asp?docid=67&sidesection=2&sidecat=7

Quote
5.13   Temporary Workplace Change

(1)   A member is normally responsible to get to and from work on a daily basis.  However, if a member is assigned to a temporary workplace, i.e., on training, promotion board, short term work assignment, etc., the member is entitled to be reimbursed additional transportation costs over and above the normal commuting distance when transportation is not provided.  The provisions of this directive shall apply for the duration of the workplace change, to a maximum of sixty (60) calendar days. If transportation is provided and the member does not want to use the government provided transportation, there is no further entitlement to transportation expenses.

Offline Nero

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 277
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #73 on: April 27, 2009, 12:35:22 »
Thanks Occam. I asked about that refere in the CFTDTI because it referenced the high rate and they told me that the CFTDTI only applies for when I'm on TD, which I'm not, so it doesnt apply to me.

Offline Occam

    Go RRRRRRRREDBLACKS!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 92,965
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,004
Re: Eligibility for Temporary Duty and the High Kilometric Rate.
« Reply #74 on: April 27, 2009, 12:52:03 »
Thanks Occam. I asked about that refere in the CFTDTI because it referenced the high rate and they told me that the CFTDTI only applies for when I'm on TD, which I'm not, so it doesnt apply to me.

I think they have it backwards.  You're on TD because you meet the criteria of having to perform a duty at a place outside the location of your unit.  It's not a case of not being on TD simply because they don't want to call it that.

If you were hired on contract to carry out training at a particular location, and then they temporarily change the location at some time after you've started your contract, that's temporary duty.  Here are the definitions, again according to CFTDI:

Quote
“temporary duty (TD)” means the time spent to attend a course or perform a duty for a period of six months or less (excluding CF members on BTL training), at a place outside the location of the member’s unit, including travelling time to the place of TD and return.

“workplace”

•   permanent/regular workplace – the single permanent location determined by the CF at or from which a CF member ordinarily is expected to perform the work of their position.

•   Temporary workplace – the single location where a CF member is temporarily assigned within the headquarters area to perform the work of their position.