Author Topic: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF  (Read 430980 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1200 on: December 02, 2017, 12:17:05 »
Quote from: Humphrey Bogart

I don't know how you change this culture? It's pretty much the glue that builds a war fighting unit.

I wouldn't want to.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1201 on: December 02, 2017, 12:24:46 »
I wouldn't want to.

This is my point, if you change the culture, do you spoil the recipe that makes these organizations effective war machines?













As you can see, it's pretty much the universally accepted practice everywhere.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1202 on: December 02, 2017, 13:01:33 »
This is my point, if you change the culture, do you spoil the recipe that makes these organizations effective war machines?

Reminds me of something I read,

"The military has long known that the soldier's morale is sustained not just by plenty of badges and medals and by ample access to alcohol and, when possible, non-infectious sexual intercourse but by the irrational conviction on the part of each soldier that he has the honor of serving in the best squad in the best platoon in the best company in the best battalion in the best regiment etc. in the army."

Wartime: Understanding and Behavior in the Second World War
By Paul Fussell

Offline NavalMoose

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1203 on: December 02, 2017, 13:04:07 »
Newsflash....young men drink beer

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1204 on: December 02, 2017, 17:16:48 »
Reminds me of something I read,

"The military has long known that the soldier's morale is sustained not just by plenty of badges and medals and by ample access to alcohol and, when possible, non-infectious sexual intercourse but by the irrational conviction on the part of each soldier that he has the honor of serving in the best squad in the best platoon in the best company in the best battalion in the best regiment etc. in the army."

Wartime: Understanding and Behavior in the Second World War
By Paul Fussell

And....

"We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
    While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
    But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
    There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
    O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind."

https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1205 on: December 02, 2017, 17:56:16 »
This is my point, if you change the culture, do you spoil the recipe that makes these organizations effective war machines?


To be fair, seeing those BCGs on the dude on the right (with the 10th Mountain patch on his shoulder) makes *me* want to drink to forget.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1206 on: December 02, 2017, 18:36:09 »
To be fair, seeing those BCGs on the dude on the right (with the 10th Mountain patch on his shoulder) makes *me* want to drink to forget.

It's how the Infantry keeps its troops fatalistic....
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1207 on: December 03, 2017, 11:07:37 »
Damn, scooped on the BCG comment!  :'(

Gotta hand it to the good ole U.S. of A. -- nobody does ocular prophylactics like Uncle Sam!  :salute:

G2G

Offline winnipegoo7

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HMCS ATHABASKAN Sexual Assault Conviction
« Reply #1208 on: March 12, 2018, 22:30:35 »
I don’t know if this has already been posted but it seems a MS NavComm has been convicted of sexual assault and ill treatment of a subordinate for an incident that occurred in 2015 on HMCS ATHABASKAN. Sentencing will occur Monday.

Does anyone know what the ´normal’ punishment is for sexual assault?

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4572981



« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 22:38:20 by winnipegoo7 »

Offline JesseWZ

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Re: HMCS ATHABASKAN Sexual Assault Conviction
« Reply #1209 on: March 13, 2018, 03:13:35 »
I don’t know if this has already been posted but it seems a MS NavComm has been convicted of sexual assault and ill treatment of a subordinate for an incident that occurred in 2015 on HMCS ATHABASKAN. Sentencing will occur Monday.

Does anyone know what the ´normal’ punishment is for sexual assault?

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4572981

There are too many factors to list for to determine the "normal" punishment of sexual assault (and really any offence). What the Judge will do, is weigh aggravating and mitigating factors, look at case law presented by the Defense and Crown (each supporting their position on the sentence) and weigh precedent with the determining factors or principles in a sentence. A judge has to consider several sentencing principles when bringing about a sentence (Deterrence, Rehabilitation, Denunciation, and Separation from society). Often, the first paragraph of sentencing decisions (written or oral statements by the judge outlining how they got to a particular sentence) begin with some variation of the line "Sentencing is one of the most difficult things for a Judge to undertake". Sentencing is to be individually tailored to the offender.

A good (if open source) summary of Sentencing Principles can be found:

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Sentencing/Purpose_and_Principles_of_Sentencing

In short, sentences range dramatically for each offence and it is entirely dependent on the unique aspects of the case and offender.

I will be seen and not heard... I will be seen and not heard... I will be seen and not heard...

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1210 on: March 13, 2018, 05:45:00 »
Hey got 22 months in jail and a release from the CAF.
Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1211 on: March 13, 2018, 06:41:39 »
Jesse and HT thanks for the info.




Offline MCG

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1212 on: March 13, 2018, 06:44:18 »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-finds-multiple-gaps-in-support-for-victims-of-sexual-misconduct-1.4573315

One of the shortfalls is:
Quote
no mechanism by which a member facing harmful or inappropriate sexual behaviour could complain to the chain of command without automatically triggering an investigation

I have actually seen this.  Victims were disinclined to come forward because they believed, under the current tone, that the response would be completely out of proportion to the offence.  I don’t have enough observations to say there is a trend, but I hope someone is watching to ensure there is not a trend of victims choosing to do nothing because the only alternative is to let the system go nuclear.


Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1213 on: March 13, 2018, 07:20:34 »
We had a case of a couple of the troops sexually harass some other soldiers. Of course, our immediate response was to investigate and if charges were warranted then charge. The victims stated that they would rather mediate a solution as it was within their control. Made sense to the CO and I so that’s what we did.
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“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Brihard

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1214 on: March 13, 2018, 08:30:03 »
Hey got 22 months in jail and a release from the CAF.

Will that be served in Edmonton?
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1215 on: March 13, 2018, 08:50:51 »
Will that be served in Edmonton?

I don't know. But, I read this,

QUOTE

Canadian Forces Service Prison and Detention Barracks

Personnel convicted of more serious offences are considered to be in “prison” and upon completion of their sentence they are released from the military.They can be  held at the CFSPDB up to a maximum of two years less a day. Serious offenders with sentences longer than two  years are transferred to the Canadian federal prison system after serving 729 days, to complete their sentence in the civilian prison system, followed by release from the Canadian Forces.
http://mdlo.ca/publications/canadian-forces-service-prison-and-detention-barracks/

END QUOTE

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1216 on: March 13, 2018, 09:17:25 »
Will that be served in Edmonton?

No idea, they didn't say on the news.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1217 on: March 13, 2018, 09:18:35 »
Here is Note B to QR&O's Vol II, Article 104.04:

(B) Service prisoners and service convicts typically require an intensive programme of retraining and rehabilitation to equip them for their return to society following completion of the term of incarceration. Civilian prisons and penitentiaries are uniquely equipped to provide such opportunities to inmates. Therefore, to facilitate their reintegration into society, service prisoners and service convicts who are to be released from the Canadian Forces will typically be transferred to a civilian prison or penitentiary as soon as practical within the first 30 days following the date of sentencing. The member will ordinarily be released from the Canadian Forces before such a transfer is effected.

In the present case, with 22 months imprisonment and release from the CAF, he would fall squarely in the purpose of the note and is therefore likely to be treated as it specifies: i.e. he will be released from the CAF and transferred to a civilian (in this case a Provincial prison, since it is less than two years) jail.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1218 on: March 13, 2018, 09:40:18 »
For reference to the discussion, see also,

HMCS ATHABASKAN crewmember charged with drug/weapon offences, 11 Aug 16
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,123798.msg1515669.html#msg1515669
"Why is he serving this sentence in provincial jail, vice Edmonton?"

Discussed from Reply #2 to Reply #10.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 11:10:08 by mariomike »

Offline Strike

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1219 on: March 13, 2018, 09:44:10 »
Looks like he's going to serve the time in New Glasgow.
Stop assuming I'm a man!

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Offline 211RadOp

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1220 on: June 28, 2018, 13:42:07 »
“Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes." Jim Carrey
"Do unto others, then run." Benny Hill
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Offline pbi

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1221 on: July 19, 2018, 11:39:22 »
Here is Note B to QR&O's Vol II, Article 104.04:

(B) Service prisoners and service convicts typically require an intensive program of retraining and rehabilitation to equip them for their return to society following completion of the term of incarceration. Civilian prisons and penitentiaries are uniquely equipped to provide such opportunities to inmates. Therefore, to facilitate their reintegration into society, service prisoners and service convicts who are to be released from the Canadian Forces will typically be transferred to a civilian prison or penitentiary as soon as practical within the first 30 days following the date of sentencing. The member will ordinarily be released from the Canadian Forces before such a transfer is effected.



In the present case, with 22 months imprisonment and release from the CAF, he would fall squarely in the purpose of the note and is therefore likely to be treated as it specifies: i.e. he will be released from the CAF and transferred to a civilian (in this case a Provincial prison, since it is less than two years) jail.

Having spent a bit of time in the various Federal  institutions back when we used to do the Pen Recces, and living in Kingston (which had nine prisons in operation in the area when I moved here in 2007), I utterly disagree with the rationale behind the quoted paragraph.

I doubt very much that incarceration in a place like KP or Collins Bay or Millhaven does very much to "reintegrate" any inmate back into society, Corrections Canada propaganda to the contrary. I think that para is based on an extremely narrow and badly outdated idea of what military people are like. 

It might (maybe...) have had some relevance when the military consisted of people who mostly lived either in shacks or PMQs, and lacked the education or the desire to function outside that environment, and would have no idea what to do with themselves once they got out.  IMHO that isn't the majority of the CAF population today. Most people live off base and have involvement in the civil community to varying degrees. Why, some military people are even married to civilians!!

If we are putting them in prison as a way to punish them, or if they are too dangerous to release, fine. But using the Federal prison system as a way to integrate released service members back into civilian life makes no sense to me, at all. There are programs to do that, if people avail themselves of them.
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #1222 on: July 19, 2018, 15:05:04 »
. . .

If we are putting them in prison as a way to punish them, or if they are too dangerous to release, fine. But using the Federal prison system as a way to integrate released service members back into civilian life makes no sense to me, at all. There are programs to do that, if people avail themselves of them.

I don't know when that Note to 104.04 was added; I don't remember it as existing way back in the dark ages when I had a slim (very, very slim) professional connection to 14 CFSPDB.  I speculate that it was added more because the CF was unable (or unwilling) to provide equivalent "retraining and rehabilitation" programs (even if civilian institutions do a poor job of proving such)**.  Though there appears to have been a few "prisoners" being housed at the SPDB in recent years and the CFPM's annual reports indicates that "quality rehabilitation and development services to inmates serving sentences ranging from 15 days of detention to two years less a day of imprisonment" are available, an inmate population of "19 detainees and 4 prisoners" (such as the total for 2016) isn't much of a critical mass on which to establish comprehensive and continuing services.

There may have been some objections or legal challenges pertaining to service imprisonment (however. unable to find any in a cursory search) but the prospect of spending two years less a day at "Club Ed" may not appeal to some who know they are to be booted especially if their family (if any) will likely remain in province of current residence while the prisoner is whisked off to Alberta.


**  It was the problems with providing specialized rehabilitation services to "prisoners" who were waiting out their time of completed appeals and transfer to civilian pens that I remember most about my professional connection to 14 CFSPDB, but that was over 30 years ago and undoubtedly they do a better job of it now. 
Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Member of Armed Forces reserves faces sexual assault allegations
« Reply #1223 on: August 30, 2018, 22:00:17 »
A Toronto-based member of the Armed Forces reserves has been charged with two counts of sexual assault under the Criminal Code and a related offence under the National Defence Act for alleged incidents at CFB Esquimalt’s Naval Fleet School.

The National Defence Act charge is for behaving in a disgraceful manner.

The charges, stemming from the summer of 2017, have been laid against Navy Lt. Ronald Clancy, who is in the reserves with HMCS York.

The case is proceeding toward a possible court-martial date.

“All members of the Canadian Armed Forces — whether they are part of the reserve force of regular force — should expect to serve in a respectful and professional environment safe from harmful and inappropriate sexual behaviour,” said Lt.-Col. Kevin Cadman, commanding officer of the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service.

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/member-of-armed-forces-reserves-faces-sexual-assault-charges-1.23417904
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon