Author Topic: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF  (Read 434813 times)

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #800 on: November 08, 2016, 01:55:24 »
... but the idea of innocent until proven guilty applies, does it not?

Absolutely. There will be a difference between legal result and stigma in this case, I suspect, and it will detrimentally impact his career.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline standingdown

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #801 on: November 08, 2016, 02:35:09 »
In cases like these, if allegations turn out to be complete BS, does law enforcement take automatic action against the accuser? Or are people basically able to throw around false accusations, ruin a person's life, waste taxpayer dollars, and face no consequences themselves?


Offline Brihard

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #802 on: November 08, 2016, 02:48:09 »
In cases like these, if allegations turn out to be complete BS, does law enforcement take automatic action against the accuser? Or are people basically able to throw around false accusations, ruin a person's life, waste taxpayer dollars, and face no consequences themselves?

Again, it's important to point out that a charge not leading to conviction does not mean claims are B.S.

The criminal offense of 'public mischief' covers deliberately false police reports:

Quote from: Criminal Code of Canada
140 (1) Every one commits public mischief who, with intent to mislead, causes a peace officer to enter on or continue an investigation by
(a) making a false statement that accuses some other person of having committed an offence;
(b) doing anything intended to cause some other person to be suspected of having committed an offence that the other person has not committed, or to divert suspicion from himself;
(c) reporting that an offence has been committed when it has not been committed; or
(d) reporting or in any other way making it known or causing it to be made known that he or some other person has died when he or that other person has not died.

So there has to be an intent to mislead, there has to be concrete action (knowingly false statement or report, or fabricated evidence), and it must cause an investigation to begin or continue that otherwise would not have. And the same burden of 'beyond a reasonable doubt' applies. In practice I have rarely seen this charge laid and more rarely still succeed because proving a falsehood is very difficult. At the same time, the threshold for laying charges is quite high too (reasonable and probable grounds to believe), and in the vast majority of cases that I have seen where a charge has not resulted in a conviction, I can say in all honestly that I have almost invariably seen it as a gap of 'know' versus 'can prove', rather than a person actually being innocent in fact of the accusation. I'm not making comment on this or any other case in particular, but I woul dbet just about anyone working in the criminal justice field would probably agree it's an accurate generalization. Actually false charges are quite rare; what is more common is police/the crown ultimately failing to gather enough evidence and/or articulate it sufficiently to convince the trier of fact. So it would be very rare that something that is utterly, factually false enough to justify a public mischief charge would lead to charges being laid in the first place.

It does happen. But rarely.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #803 on: November 08, 2016, 08:01:54 »
Brihard thanks to you and other others who take the time to explain the law and how this stuff works it's really interesting.

It doesn't seem like false claims are followed up to often form what I can tell (PMQ  drama).  Someone would probably need a lawyer and thousands of dollars to throw at it.
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #804 on: November 08, 2016, 09:25:28 »
I'm not sure if I were the Comd CA I would just sweep this away and move on, especially as the charges were withdrawn. I would want to know the reasons why the prosecution decided not to go forward, and then make a determination (through the appropriate HR process) as to whether I had lost confidence in his ability to Lead, and have his troops follow.

Offline Pusser

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #805 on: November 08, 2016, 10:07:16 »
I'm not sure if I were the Comd CA I would just sweep this away and move on, especially as the charges were withdrawn. I would want to know the reasons why the prosecution decided not to go forward, and then make a determination (through the appropriate HR process) as to whether I had lost confidence in his ability to Lead, and have his troops follow.

I'm not sure whether a Commander's loss of confidence in a CO's ability to lead is relevant in cases like this.  As has already been pointed out, this officer was relieved and another was appointed to take his place,  Soon it will be time for yet another to step up.  History is full of examples of commanders who were relieved, but then later appointed to other commands once their names had been cleared.  Nowadays, however, a CO generally only gets one kick at the cat and even if something goes awry during his/her tenure (regardless of whether he/she is at fault), the steam roller keeps rolling and never looks back.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #806 on: November 08, 2016, 10:08:29 »
In fact, DMCA will be conducting an administrative review on this case, as they do in all cases where such charges have been laid, and may direct administrative action, depending on the circumstances.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #807 on: November 08, 2016, 12:05:01 »
Someone does not need to be found guilty in order for the court of public opinion to ruin their career and life.
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Offline ballz

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #808 on: November 08, 2016, 14:36:08 »
In fact, DMCA will be conducting an administrative review on this case, as they do in all cases where such charges have been laid, and may direct administrative action, depending on the circumstances.

Indeed. I think people are failing to recognize that administrative action can still be taken up to and including booting him out.

I would be curious to know how much info is being shared (or allowed to be shared) between the Crown and the member's Chain of Command. While something simple like the loss of a key witness could have caused the charges to be dropped, it doesn't mean that someone viewing this from his Chain of Command, if they have all the info from the Crown, can't decide that on the balance of probabilities (the burden of proof for administrative action) he did something he ought not to have done...
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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #809 on: November 08, 2016, 14:54:26 »
Brihard thanks to you and other others who take the time to explain the law and how this stuff works it's really interesting.
What he said, to all who provided input.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #810 on: November 08, 2016, 14:54:54 »
I think people are failing to recognize that administrative action can still be taken up to and including booting him out.

I know they let guys go if their judgment is called into question due to off-duty conduct where I used to work.
That includes Tweeting and social media. Or an off-duty FHRITP on-camera stunt etc...

No charges are necessary. 

Offline MCG

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #811 on: November 08, 2016, 14:55:44 »
I know they let guys go if ...
Who is "they"?

Offline mariomike

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #812 on: November 08, 2016, 14:56:59 »
Who is "they"?

where I used to work.

From what Ballz says, the military may have the same "administrative action"?

Offline MCG

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #813 on: November 08, 2016, 15:02:03 »
So, "they" is Hydro One?

Unlike that organization, the CAF follows a system with procedural fairness.  The individual is given the opportunity to see the case against them, and to make replies. 

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #814 on: November 08, 2016, 15:10:58 »
So, "they" is Hydro One?

No.

Unlike that organization, the CAF follows a system with procedural fairness.  The individual is given the opportunity to see the case against them, and to make replies.

Ours go to arbitration. The individual is given the opportunity to see the case against them, and to make replies. The union represents them at the hearing.
The Arbitrator makes the final decision.
Not the employer. Not the union.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 15:15:22 by mariomike »

Offline ballz

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #815 on: November 08, 2016, 15:20:10 »
From what Ballz says, the military may have the same "administrative action"?

Administrative action is just a blanket term for things like remedial measures, administrative reviews, etc. The important part in this is that its separate from legal/judicial/disciplinary action, and the burden of proof is on a "balance of probabilities" as opposed to "beyond a reasonable doubt."

So as DAP said, an administrative review (AR) will be conducted to determine how to deal with the member going forward. If that AR determines that, on the balance of probabilities, the member committed these sex-related offences, then there is a wide array of possibilities available to deal with it. One of those possibilities in this case is most definitely a release.

So, all that to say, this isn't even a matter of just being unofficially blackballed for the rest of his career... there are still official things that can take place..
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #816 on: November 09, 2016, 00:02:13 »
Administrative action is just a blanket term for things like remedial measures, administrative reviews, etc. The important part in this is that its separate from legal/judicial/disciplinary action, and the burden of proof is on a "balance of probabilities" as opposed to "beyond a reasonable doubt."

So as DAP said, an administrative review (AR) will be conducted to determine how to deal with the member going forward. If that AR determines that, on the balance of probabilities, the member committed these sex-related offences, then there is a wide array of possibilities available to deal with it. One of those possibilities in this case is most definitely a release.

So, all that to say, this isn't even a matter of just being unofficially blackballed for the rest of his career... there are still official things that can take place..

Correct. Well said.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #817 on: November 09, 2016, 14:19:54 »
N.B. captain charged with sexual assault of fellow Armed Forces member
http://www.680news.com/2016/11/09/n-b-captain-charged-with-sexual-assault-of-fellow-armed-forces-member/
 



« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 15:12:35 by mariomike »

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #818 on: November 09, 2016, 15:19:48 »
A reminder:  under the Charter, "Any person charged with an offence has the right ... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal ..."

Quote
On November 9, 2016, the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service charged a military member of 5th Canadian Division Support Group with two counts under the National Defence Act in relation to accessing child pornography.

The charges relate to reported accessing of child pornography while the accused was on duty at 5th Canadian Division Support Base Gagetown between June 26, 2014 and September 22, 2014.

Sergeant Brent Douglas Hansen faces the following charges:

    one count of Accessing Child Pornography under section 163.1(4.1) of the Criminal Code of Canada, punishable under section 130 of the National Defence Act; and
    one count of Conduct to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline, punishable under section 129 of the National Defence Act.

Quotes

    “The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service thoroughly investigates any allegations of accessing, possession or distribution of child pornography in relation to Canadian Armed Forces members, Department of National Defence employees or defence establishments. These charges reflect our ongoing commitment to identify, investigate and bring to prosecution those persons engaged in harmful, inappropriate and criminal sexual behaviour.”
    Lieutenant-Colonel Francis Bolduc, Commanding Officer, Canadian Forces National Investigation Service

Quick Facts

    The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service is a unit within the independent Canadian Forces Military Police Group whose mandate is to investigate serious and sensitive matters in relation to Department of National Defence property, Department of National defence employees and Canadian Armed Forces personnel serving in Canada and around the world.
    The Canadian Armed Forces takes all reports of misconduct by its members very seriously and, in all cases, action is taken to determine facts, conduct applicable investigations, analyse available evidence and, if warranted, lay the appropriate charges.

- 30 -
Source
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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #820 on: November 09, 2016, 22:29:34 »
Always good to remind people of this ...
That, and "the allegations have not been proven in court" while the trial is underway.
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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #821 on: November 14, 2016, 16:32:51 »
A bit of reach back by the NIS for information ...
Quote
The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service is looking into an allegation of sexual assaults involving a child that reportedly took place at 3rd Canadian Division Support Base Edmonton between 1978 and 1980.

The investigation involves a non-family, non-military male youth who is reported to have sexually assaulted a child while babysitting in a residential housing unit at the base (then known as Canadian Forces Base Edmonton and formerly known as RCAF Station Namao).

If you have information about the reported assaults, contact Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477 (TIPS) or www.canadiancrimestoppers.org or call the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service’s Sexual Offence Response Team at 1-844-489-0569.
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #822 on: November 14, 2016, 20:14:41 »
A reminder:  under the Charter, "Any person charged with an offence has the right ... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal ..."

I have always wondered, does this mean that the accused has the right to be presumed innocent by all until proven guilty, or just by the independent and impartial tribunal hearing the case and meting out punishment. Is there a difference between being innocent from a legal stand point, and being innocent from a moral stand point?

Offline MCG

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #823 on: November 14, 2016, 21:59:49 »
A CF member arrested at CFLRS for sexual assault:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/military-investigate-sexual-assault-saint-jean-garrison-1.3850400

Article seems to imply a connection to BMQ, but there are no details of incident, victim or accused.

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Re: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #824 on: November 14, 2016, 22:40:20 »
A reminder:  under the Charter, "Any person charged with an offence has the right ... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal ..."

I have always wondered, does this mean that the accused has the right to be presumed innocent by all until proven guilty, or just by the independent and impartial tribunal hearing the case and meting out punishment. Is there a difference between being innocent from a legal stand point, and being innocent from a moral stand point?

It's not so much a "moral" question as a "public/private opinion" one.

The totality of s 11(d) reads:

Quote
Proceedings in criminal and penal matters

11. Any person charged with an offence has the right

(d) to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal;

Essentially this means that in cases where charges are laid that have criminal or penal consequences the government (prosecution) must prove the individual guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before a fair and impartial tribunal. Laws cannot be created or circumstances allowed to exist whereby the individual is directly or indirectly presumed to be guilty and therefore required to prove his innocence. (There can, however, be low level non-criminal, non-penal strict or absolute liability offences where such presumptions do exist)

S11(d) is not a section that can dictate what public or private opinions are with respect to a given case. It only applies to the government (all levels). On the other hand, defamation laws might very well apply to members of the public that make statements that are not factual and that defame an accused before a conviction is entered.

Out of both an abundance of caution, and out of general fairness to the accused, we tend to withhold our opinions as to an individual's culpability until the trial process has taken its course.

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