Author Topic: All About PAT (merged)  (Read 107640 times)

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Andrew

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All About PAT (merged)
« on: December 19, 2002, 15:25:00 »
This is getting really stupid.  I know that the CF is way undermanned but there should be something they can do!  I have been awaiting my SQ course for 3 months and there are others in holding troop like 6 months already.  I have a few friends in Borden that say there holding troop is already up to apox. 900 troops and kingston 300.  I heard edmonton is up there too.  Just seems like more of a waste of money making us sit on our asses in the QM all day and get us on those courses.  Is this just cause there are lack of personal to train???  

Andrew  :bullet:    :cdn:    :bullet:  


just blowing some steam

Offline ~RoKo~

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2002, 20:36:00 »
I wasn‘t aware it was so bad here in Edmonton...
There‘s an SQ running right now, and there will probably be one in the spring...

I‘ve got to wait until the summer.. It would be too hard for me with 6 uni courses to lose every entire weekend.. Plus I‘m not too fond of the idea of a part time SQ.. I did my BMQ full time, 30 full days..

The good thing is that I‘m doing a lot of on the job training with my unit, so parade nights are never boring.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2002, 08:42:00 »
A few things happened that caused these backlogs at the base level PAT platoons. Firstly, last year the flavour of the month was a big recruiting crisis, so the CF enrolled everyone they could get. To do this they raided existing establishments to create temporary recruit training facilities, after which all those staff returned to their primary jobs. Second, the trade schools didn‘t have the staff or resources to handle the sudden surge in available students, and therefore many still sit in the PAT platoons. It is unfortunate, but consider that the alterntive would be that your enrolment would have been delayed until the recruit course immediately before an available SQ or trade course. In that case, may of those in the PAT platoons would still be waiting for the CFRC to call. All I can recommend is patience.

Mike

stacy mogan

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2003, 11:39:00 »
My son is in the final weeks of BT. He has been told he will be sent to a PAT Platoon while they wait for spots to open for his trades training. Is this something that is tied to the fiscal year opening in April? Or what determines how long he will wait to start his training? What do they do in the PAT platoon?
Thanks!

Offline combat_medic

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2003, 12:26:00 »
The reason he is in PAT platoon is because he‘s awaiting courses. The reason could be lack of instructors, lack of open positions, lack of funding, etc. They can only run so many courses at a time (given the aforementioned constraints) and your son will have to wait in line until it‘s his turn to be on course. Could be 2 weeks, could be 12 months, depends on the trade.

What he‘ll do in PAT platoon is esentially nothing. When I was in Shilo doing General Duties in the Duty Office, there were about 30 artillery PAT guys there. We had them running errands, cleaning floors, picking up garbage, doing PT, but mostly just sitting around and watching TV. It‘s pretty boring, and I‘d tell your son to bring something to occupy his time.
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Offline gryphon664

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2003, 23:09:00 »
Wow! when I was in Shilo this summer (I was part of the Comms Res BRT) The people that got put onto PAT platoon did nothing. They were confined to quarters for some reason!!!!
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klumanth

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2003, 11:01:00 »
http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-06-08-0031.html

Troops forced to wait for trade training

By STEPHANIE RUBEC, SUN OTTAWA BUREAU

 
OTTAWA -- The personnel-strapped Canadian Forces are faced with a backlog of about 1,800 soldiers awaiting trade training thanks to an ordered boost in recruiting.

Sun Media has learned that about 1,800 soldiers are stewing in specially created holding platoons, waiting for a spot to open up in their course so they can start working for the military - and they could be in limbo for more than a year.

These soldiers are often used as gofers. They‘re asked to show up in the morning and are assigned various menial tasks like setting up for base events and cleaning up military buildings.

Capt. Vance White, CFB Borden recruiting spokesman, said on his base they‘re also encouraged to keep up their fitness level and offered classes to improve their academic standings in subjects like math.

Borden also tries to find the soldiers on-the-job training.

"Do people decide to get out because they‘re tired of waiting, yes," White said, adding the courses are filled on a first-come, first-served basis.

"We try to keep them busy."

White said the backlog is caused by the past two years‘ doubling of recruiting numbers, a boost ordered by Ottawa to ensure the Canadian Forces have enough skilled soldiers.

White said that means Ottawa hires more soldiers than the Forces have spots for in the classroom.

Most of the soldiers awaiting training are freshly off the street. They‘ve signed a three-year contract, accepting a job offer that includes a trade course after they‘ve completed basic training.

The majority, or 63%, have to wait between three and six months to get in their course. About 29% have to wait more than nine months.

In the past a recruit wouldn‘t be signed up until a course had an opening. But the military changed its policy and now signs up recruits before spots are available, hoping to keep them interested in staying in the military with a regular paycheque

Bringer

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2003, 19:10:00 »
Anyone know how long the wait is for Infantry? I‘m guessing that the 9+ month waits are for rarer trades than the combat arms.

My recruiter said that both RCR and PPCLI are open for infantry right now, but that doesn‘t mean they aren‘t recruiting more than they can train.

Offline Devlin

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2003, 20:56:00 »
Quote
Sun Media has learned  
Ummmm hate to break it to ya Sun Media but this is old news.

Yes it definately would suck to sign up get through BMQ and have to play the hurry up and wait game for 6-9 months.

What should be done to clear out the PAT platoons, perhaps cancel off reserve courses till the Reg force is caught up. But then you are making another group suffer due to poor planning by higher up. As well a lot of reservists count on summer courses to pay for school etc...

Not too mention the number of CT‘s that come out of the reserve world and into the Reg force world, a lot that are already trained and for lack of a better word useful.

klumanth

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2003, 21:33:00 »
They may have smartened up by now but I know last summer, there were a lot of CT‘s waiting on PAT with everyone else.  Most of them would‘ve gladly stayed with their old units until their course started but they weren‘t given that option.  That sort of thing is unacceptable.

As for this article just coming out now, yes it is very late, but nowadays any story the mentions the military, our current government and some sort of blunder makes a good story

Beatty1

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2004, 18:14:00 »
I was wondering if PAT‘s receive any sort of pay?

D-n-A

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2004, 18:57:00 »
If your referring to Personal Awaiting Training Platoon (PAT Plt). Than yes, they get paid.

belka

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2004, 22:11:21 »
I know that after BMQ you get sent to a holding PAT, unless your QL3 is right after. Since that usually never happens, what would I expect at a holding PAT? I mean, what do I do there?

Also, I think that your car/truck is considered part of your furniture. I plan to buy a vehicle during my QL3's in Bordon, would I get some sort of compensation when I have to move it to, lets say, Cold Lake?

 :cdn:

Boone

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2004, 22:50:49 »
It kinda depends what trade you are. You mention cold lake so I am going to assume you are going to be either AVN,  AVS or ACS? If that is the case you will be with CFSATE. You would not be doing a heck of alot. Mostly sitting around and awaiting taskings you will get daily PT but that is about it. It is very boring.I was in Borden last year for 6 months awaiting training and I was with the Pat unit called PRETC (Post recruit training education training center). This incompases pretty much all the other trades that come to Borden from Logistics,ATIS, FCS, LCIS,Sig OP, Vehicle tech etc etc. With this unit there is more PT and taskings and anything they can think up to keep you busy, like doing sports, kit inspections drill and all that fun stuff so in other words very boring. But of course it is what you make of it. The six months I spent there are not something I look back on or miss, the best part of Borden was the view in my review mirror as I was leaving. Oh i almost forgot there is a possibility of getting OJT ( On the job training) in your trade while waiting for your ql3 to start this normally takes a while but if you get it you will love it.
As per your other question. If you have a car when you are finnished your ql3's the military will either pay for the shipping of it to where you are posted or they willl pay you x amount of dollars to drive to your posting. Either way you are taken care of so no worries. If you have any other questions let me know and I will try and help as best as I can.

belka

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2004, 23:09:19 »
Yes, going in for AVN.

Both questions answered, thanks. Also, while in Bordon, with either the PAT or on your QL3, do you have to pay for board or meals?




Boone

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2004, 12:12:35 »
Well this also depends. If you are married or in a commen law relationship before you join the forces you will not have to pay room and board. However if you are single you will have to pay room and board. I think it is around $350 a month I am not positive but that is a close approx.
Hope this helps.

platinumfx

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2004, 12:45:07 »
Regarding the room and board, why wouldn't somebody in a common law relationship have to pay, and what makes a relationship commonlaw, i have been with my gf for about 3 years now and we have a kid together? would that make me commonlaw or no?

Boone

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2004, 16:32:23 »
yes that is a commen law relationship. If you can prove you have been living for a least 1 yr together you will not have to pay room and board.  But I don't know your situation. It says reserves on your profile and I am not familiar with how it works for you guys on course. I know in the reg force it is how I mentioned above. To answer your other question I don't have a straight answer however I think its just to put married and commen law people on the same level. But I am guessing. Maybe someone else might know more?

Offline 0tto Destruct

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2004, 09:27:24 »
I have some experience with this, and as a reserve member, you have to be living together for at least a year. Once you do, you have to get a form filled out, and an officer (any one will do) has to witness it. Once that's all said and done, your better half is entitled to all the benefits of a proper spouse.

platinumfx

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2004, 09:00:38 »
ok well thank you for all the information those are the answers i was looking for. thanks again

military-guy

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2004, 21:11:39 »
PAT Platoon is a total waste of a person's time and life.  Forget what the other people said here that at least you are getting paid. It would better to be out of the CF and NOT getting paid than to be in PAT Platoon.  In St-Jean, if you get an injury on course or decide that the military isn't for you, or piss off some instructor, you will have to wait in PAT platoon from anywhere between 2 weeks to almost 2 years (i was in PAT almost 2 years!).  In PAT Platoon you just sit there in a room all day long, not allowed to leave or go anywhere or do anything, bored out of your mind, wasting your life and your time.  They don't tell you about this at the recruiting centres!  If you join, go to Basic Training, decide it is not for you, and request a Voluntary Release (quit), they then send you to PAT Platoon for at least 2 weeks before they let you leave.  If you injure yourself while on training it is even worse, as you will be sitting around doing nothing for months!  Anyone that thinks this is normal or acceptable is smoking some strong drugs!

Offline excoelis

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2004, 18:42:09 »
(i was in PAT almost 2 years!).

Why??? Hmmmmm....................... 2 years, eh.....................

Quote
In PAT Platoon you just sit there in a room all day long, not allowed to leave or go anywhere or do anything, bored out of your mind, wasting your life and your time.

I find it hard to believe that there was absolutely nothing you could do to prepare for your eventual continuation of training.

Quote
If you injure yourself while on training it is even worse, as you will be sitting around doing nothing for months!

So, with your wealth of knowledge and experience, what do you propose?  That they complete training with their peers, despite not being able to do the same training???

Quote
Anyone that thinks this is normal or acceptable is smoking some strong drugs!

Nice attitude.  "It's everyone else's fault.  I'm smarter than them all.  They don't know what they are doing.  What are they doing for ME."

I dunno..... maybe I have misunderstood your intent, but to me you sound bitter, spoiled, self-centered...........

"Ability is what youâ Ëœre capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it."

Offline Thirstyson

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2004, 13:20:34 »
While military-guy does come off as a bit rude, he does have some valid points about how bad St-Jean PAT platoon is.

When I arrived in the St-Jean PAT platoon last February, I think i met this gentleman. We became friends, as he is very likable and relaxed, he even had a good attitude towards the CF but, having spent two years on PAT i can understand how he vents his feelings here.

Quote
In PAT Platoon you just sit there in a room all day long, not allowed to leave or go anywhere or do anything, bored out of your mind, wasting your life and your time.

This is completely true... on a good day, you assembled rucksacks for two hours. Other than daily PT the rest of your time is spent in a room reading the QR and O's or whatever you could find in the St-Jean library.

The morale in this room is zero. Half of the room is angry because they got injured/failed a rifle test and they have to wait 3 months for the next BOTC, the other half is saying screw the CF, and waiting for their release. This does not help pass the time.

The worst part is the way you are treated on base: even though we're not on course Ocdt's on PAT in St-Jean are treated pretty badly by all passing instructors and other personnel. I understand that this is the norm while ON course, but while not on course, a little bit of humanness would be nice...

Myself, I was able to make the best of a bad situation, I'm still injured (recovering from related surgery) but I've been attached posted to Ottawa since late March and am enjoying the CF. I do however dread returning to St-Jean soon because I will likely be stuck in the same PAT platoon from Feb-May awaiting a course (if I'll heal in time for the Jan 17th BOTC).

As a side note, things were slightly better for the recruit PAT plt as they had new courses starting every week or two and didn't have to wait 3 months or more.

Offline excoelis

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2004, 18:32:18 »
O.K. Thirsty, I'll take your word for it.  You say he is a gentleman......Roger that.

I accept the fact that I fired the first shot over the bow.....I'll even concede that I don't come here often enough to enforce the attitude I would like to see of the young and unindoctrinated..........My bad.

I gotta say though, If you want to crap in my pool you best have earned the right.  This Army isn't very big.  I work with soldiers every day.  I expect that young officers arriving from training are full of zeal and vigor.  My job is to rein'im in - not to kick him in the *** because he is not physically or mentally up to the task!

In today's ever-changing security environment one has to be up to the task of both risking one's life and the even greater burden of being responsible for the lives of others.

If 'one' can't make the best of a bad situation how TF can 'one' be expected to lead men in the profession of arms?
"Ability is what youâ Ëœre capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it."

aesop081

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Re: All About PAT (merged)
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2004, 18:45:42 »
I feel i need to add my 2 cents here,

Ther were quite a few individuals at CFSME ( when i was instructing there) that spent an undue amount of time in PAT pl..........i'll admit it.  BUT.......a very large group were doing it to themselves.  What these guys would do is everytime we would tell them " your SQ/QL3 starts on this date" they would promtly go to the MIR and get themselves on a T cat or somekind of chit so they would not have to go on course.....they got used to being lazy and wanted to stay that way.  I was happy the day some of these guys were released !!

I'm sorry you were stuck in a room....but if you are going to be an officer then you should have been able to make the best of a bad situation. I sincerly hope never to have to work for officers with attitudes like that.  Reading the QR&O's is not a waste of time !  You got injured...sorry to hear that...you failed a riffle test......you should have prepared better.

Moral to all this:  You are supposed to be an officer....start acting like it