Author Topic: Pay increments  (Read 93188 times)

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Offline dunkski

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Pay increments
« on: May 29, 2007, 14:37:52 »
Hello,

I am hoping someone can help me...I have found many documents explaining the pay scales but I haven't found any information that tells me when you move up pay increments. For example: when would one move from Private Pay Increment 1: $2484/month to Private Pay Increment 2: $3038/month etc. Is it based upon when you finish BMQ/SQ etc or are the pay increments based upon years of service?

Thanks in advance!

Chris.

Offline Teflon

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2007, 14:45:29 »
After each year in rank
When you meet somebody new,
don't get excited, because
9 out of ten times
they're stupid

Offline dunkski

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2007, 15:01:39 »
Thanks Teflon!

Offline Teflon

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2007, 15:05:25 »
Always willing to help when I can
When you meet somebody new,
don't get excited, because
9 out of ten times
they're stupid

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2007, 16:18:29 »
Keep in mind that each 'year' in rank differs.

So, in your Pte ranks, it moves up on the anniversary of your enrollment date, because that's the day you became a Pte.
Once you get promoted, it goes up on the anniversary of your PROMOTION date, and these will vary.
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Offline dunkski

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2007, 19:26:01 »
Thanks for the clarification MedTech.

Offline FinClk

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2007, 21:22:05 »
CBI & CFAO 204 explain all these in great detail.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2007, 21:27:05 »
CBI & CFAO 204 explain all these in great detail.

The original poster, and others who find this thread, may have absolutely no ideas what a "CBI" or a "CFAO" might be.  Please provide links and explanations where possible.

Thank you

Army.ca Staff


Offline Dog

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2007, 23:11:39 »
What is the requirement for a reserve promotion? If you are a private, who just finished his 3's, but has more than 365 days of service, are you eligible for promotion to corporal? Or do you have to serve for another 2 years on class A as a trained private in order to be promoted?

I've poked around on the DND website and have found numerous things talking about accelerated promotions, and promotions in general, but nothing specific enough to answer the above question. Anybody know for sure? Anybody have an EDUCATED guess?
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Offline Breacher41

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2007, 23:27:33 »
Two years from the time you were a private. Another words the instant you enrolled, complete your required courses for promotion, and as long as you've served 2 years as a Pte, you are eligible.

Remember this just makes you eligible for promotion. This does NOT mean you will be promoted.
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Offline FinClk

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2007, 06:35:37 »
For those not aware of what CBI or CFAO stands for or where to find them, refer to this thread (found at the very top of the Mil Admin Forum): http://forums.navy.ca/forums/index.php/topic,60485.0.html

Promotion Criteria's:
Reg Force NCM's: CFAO 49-4 http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-04_e.asp
Res Force NCM's" CFAO 49-5 http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-05_e.asp

Pay Policy:
QR&O 204's: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol3/Ch204_e.asp#204.015
CBI 204's: http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6
CFAO 204-2 is one, search listing under "Pay": http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/toc_e.asp

Offline Dog

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 11:41:05 »
I guess the next question I have is; what is the equivalent of 2 years in the reserves? Is it actually 2 years of weekends and evenings? Or is there a certain number of total days that equals 2 reserve years?
This will affect how quickly I will apply for a CT, if I can get promoted and get a class B, and snag a few more career courses, then I'll stay with my unit (for a while) if not, then back to the regs I go!
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Offline FifthHorse

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 12:23:12 »
I guess the next question I have is; what is the equivalent of 2 years in the reserves? Is it actually 2 years of weekends and evenings? Or is there a certain number of total days that equals 2 reserve years?
This will affect how quickly I will apply for a CT, if I can get promoted and get a class B, and snag a few more career courses, then I'll stay with my unit (for a while) if not, then back to the regs I go!

Two years in the reserves is calculated from your enrollment date. if you enrolled June 1, 2005 you would be eligible for promotion to Corporal today. However, ranks and courses are not 100% transferable. I know two MCpl. types, both attempted to CT one was offered a position as a Pte. and the other a Cpl. It come down to individual experience (courses, tours, etc.) . I believe it is minimum four years to become a Cpl. in reg force, while it is two in the reserves, so you can see how the experience level differs between the two. However, in terms of pay scale the CF will never pay you less than what you were earning in a previous rank. If you are say, a reserve Cpl. then a transfer to the regs as a Pte. would not entail a reduction in salary.   
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Offline geo

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 13:12:11 »
... two years as the crow flies.
- no consideration for full time / part time
- one
- two
pass your course and there you go!
Chimo!

Offline Dog

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2007, 19:22:25 »
Humph.... that's too bad. Back to the regs I go!

Well, thanks for the response.
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Offline Civvymedic

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2007, 19:53:32 »
What if under some circumstances you were granted QL3 after basic or something similar. As in my case, I'm a civilian Advanced Care Paramedic, 10 years in practice who may be given some standing.

Would I start at the 2484 a month or a higher pay grade after basic or still be required to wait for anniversary dates before moving up the pay chart?

Thanks.

Offline kratz

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2007, 19:55:09 »
For those not aware of what CBI or CFAO stands for or where to find them, refer to this thread (found at the very top of the Mil Admin Forum): http://forums.navy.ca/forums/index.php/topic,60485.0.html

In addition to the references that PO2FinClk posted, anyone in the Naval Reserve also needs to refer MARCORD 9-1, Vol 1 with respect to attending the minimum (and maximum) number of training days for the ICP.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 19:58:51 by kratz »
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Offline Breacher41

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2007, 00:37:31 »
You would come in as semi-skilled. You would most likely start off at a Cpl rank. Yes to anniversary dates. It's the way EVERYONE's promotion and pay increments move. No exceptions.
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Offline Civvymedic

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2007, 00:49:05 »
Thanks MED TECH

Big role to fill starting out with rank. How would a civilian medic be received coming in like that? I guess it depends on the individual.

So would you start out with Privates pay or be paid to your rank as a Corporal?

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2007, 01:30:13 »
I've been wondering, are there any circumstances under which a reserve pte would be promoted to a cpl before 2 years in?

Offline adaminc

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2007, 02:17:04 »
I'd also like to know how someone would be received instant promotion after bmq for being semi-skilled, I will be going into my 3rd(and last) year of electronics engineering technology and I plan on joining as regF LCIS Tech after that in about 1 year.

Offline Wookilar

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2007, 02:58:33 »
As semiskilled, you will get advanced standing as a Pte after BMQ (which means higher pay). If your trade qualifications are sufficient, you may only do partial QL3 (maybe even partial QL5) to complete that level of training. In most tech trades, you need QL5 to qualify for Cpl.

The only "instant" promotions to Cpl I have ever seen after Basic where individuals that were previously trades qualified, released and then re-enrolled.

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Offline FinClk

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2007, 08:48:31 »
I'd also like to know how someone would be received instant promotion after bmq for being semi-skilled, I will be going into my 3rd(and last) year of electronics engineering technology and I plan on joining as regF LCIS Tech after that in about 1 year.
For critical manning trades such as LCIS there are often specific enrollment programs, which allows for what is mentioned herein as semi skilled. However each is different and distinct from one another based on the MOS requirements. Anyone wishing to enrol who already have a s specified skillset should contact their CFRC to obtain exact details about each.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2007, 09:26:57 »
I'd also like to know how someone would be received instant promotion after bmq for being semi-skilled, I will be going into my 3rd(and last) year of electronics engineering technology and I plan on joining as regF LCIS Tech after that in about 1 year.

I have a friend who is currently enrolled and on his LCIS Crse in Kingston.  He also has a College Deploma in Electronics, but finds most of the training to be all new to him.  He is a member of this site, and perhaps he can set you straight on some of your questions on these matters.  You will have to do POET before you do your LCIS Crse, so it is a long and demanding path before you finally graduate and get posted to a Unit. 

You may get a promotion to Cpl on graduation, but be forwarned that there are rules that apply to "Advanced Promotions" that can affect your career later.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Pay Increments/Promotions
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2007, 09:41:41 »
From the CFAO s at this link you will find this"

Quote
ANNEX B -- ACCELERATED PROMOTION GENERAL
1.     A CO may nominate for accelerated promotion members with outstanding
ability, leadership, or supervisory potential. Accelerated promotion to Cpl
must be in recognition of demonstrated outstanding performance as a
tradesperson, whereas nomination for accelerated appointment to MCpl or
above must also recognize leadership potential. A Pte may be nominated for
accelerated promotion to Cpl or appointment to MCpl but a member of the
rank of Cpl or above may be nominated for accelerated promotion only to the
next higher rank, including appointment to MCpl.
2.     A member's promotion shall not be accelerated through successive ranks
or to the same rank twice except as provided for in paragraph 7 of this
annex.
3.     Except as otherwise indicated, members governed by Tables 3, 4, 5, 7,
and 8 of Annex A are not eligible for accelerated promotion.
4.     Accelerated promotion of Pte/Cpl to MCpl in the INFMN, ARTYMN FD,
ARTYMN AD, CRMN, FLD ENG, FEE Op LMN and RAD OP MOCs shall be in accordance
with the Delegated Authority Promotion System (DAPS) as detailed in
Appendix 2. Members promoted to MCpl by DAPS must meet the prerequisites
prescribed in Table 2 to Annex A and Table 2 to this Annex to be eligible
for nomination to accelerated promotion to Sgt.
5.     To be eligible for nomination for accelerated promotion, a member must
meet the prerequisites prescribed in Table 2 to Annex A and those in the
appropriate tables to this Annex. A member may be nominated for accelerated
promotion to Mcpl without being MOC qualified but may not be promoted until
all prerequisites are met. The CO shall negotiate priority coursing with
the appropriate career manager (CM).
6.     Excepting those MOCs to which the DAPS is applicable, as detailed in
Appendix 2, regardless of the date of nomination for accelerated promotion
to Mcpl or above, a special PER must accompany the submission; however,
this does not negate the requirement for an annual or posting PER as
applicable.

PROMOTION -- PTE -- CPL
7.     A Pte's promotion may be accelerated to AL/Cpl who lacks QL5A
qualification because of Service reasons provided the member meets all the
other prerequisites in Table 1 to this Annex.

PROMOTION -- PTE -- MCPL
8.     Excepting those MOCs to which the DAPS is applicable, as detailed in
Appendix 2, a Pte nominated for accelerated promotion to Mcpl shall be
accelerated to Cpl pending merit board consideration. The effective date of
promotion to Cpl will be the date the recommendation was approved. The
effective date of promotion to Mcpl will be in accordance with merit list
position.

COMMAND CEILING -- ACCELERATED PROMOTION PTE TO CPL
9.     Each year on 31 Dec, NDHQ/DPCAOR will allocate ceilings for
accelerated promotion of Ptes to Cpl. Command ceilings shall not be
exceeded without the approval of NDHQ/DGPCOR. Unused portions of annual
allocations shall not be carried over into the next calendar year.

If you want to follow/investigate the references, they are on the link above.  There are also links to the QR&O s and DAOD s for those who want to did deeper.

Quote
ANNEX B, APPENDIX 1 -- PREREQUISITES FOR ACCELERATED PROMOTION
TABLE 1 -- PTE TO CPL

                     For
        Current  Acceleration
Serial   Rank         to              Required Other Prerequisites

   1      Pte        Cpl       a. Have 3 years, but less than 4 a. Documentation. As deter-
                                 years, qualifying service. mined by CHQ.

                               b. Hold QL5A in current MOC, or b. Must meet all promotion
                                 hold next lower qualification prerequisites, other than time
                                 in current MOC when for in rank, specified in Annex A,
                                 Service reasons member has Tables 2 and 6.
                                 not qualified QL5A.

TABLE 2 -- TO MCPL AND ABOVE

         For                                        Documentation               Prerequisites
Current Acceleration                                    Due                     Applicable to
Serial   Rank    to                    Required NDHQ by                          All Serials

  1      Pte    MCpl              a. Have 3 years, but less 1 Aug annually  a. COs letter of
                                    than 4 years, qualifying (see Note 1).     recommendation
                                    service.                                   and special PER.

                                  b. Hold QL5A in current                   b. OCC endorsement,
                                    MOC prior to 1 Aug in                      if applicable.
                                    year nomination is
                                    made.                                   c. Must meet all
                                                                               promotion prerequisites
                                  c. JLC qualified                             other than time in rank
                                    (see Note 2).                              specified in Annex A,
                                                                               promotion prerequisites
                                  c. JLC qualified                             other than time in rank
                                    (see Note 2).                              specified in Annex A,
                                                                               Tables 2 and 6.

  2      Cpl    MCpl   a. Have 1 year, but less     1 Aug annually          d. Current rank attained by
                         than 2 years, seniority    (see Note 1).             normal progression.
                         as Cpl by 31 Dec of
                         year nomination is                                 e. Copy of form CF 743A
                         made.                                                (see Annex G) for
                                                                              confirmation to QL or
                       b. Hold QL5A in current                                rank qualification as
                         MOC.                                                 applicable, and a copy
                                                                              of the JLC of SLC
                       c. JLC qualified                                       report.
                         (see Note 2).

  3      MCpl    Sgt   a. Have 1 year but less      1 Aug annually
                         than 2 years, seniority    (see Note 1).
                         as MCpl in year
                         nomination is made.

                       b. Hold QL6A in current
                         MOC.

  4      Sgt     WO    a. Have 1 year, but less     1 Aug annually
                          than 3 years, seniority    (see Note 1).
                          as Sgt in year
                          nomination is made.

                       b. Hold QL6B in current
                          MOC.

                       c. SLC qualified.

  5       WO     MWO   a. Have 1 year, but less   1 Aug annually
                         than 3 years, seniority  (see Note 1).
                         as WO in year
                         nomination is made.

                       b. Hold QL7 in current

  6      MWO     CWO   Accelerated promotion to
                       CWO is not permitted.

Notes-- 1. Documentation due dates are established to coincide with promotion merit board
           scheduling.

        2. For the CRMN 011, ARTYMN FD 021, ARTYMN AD 022, INFMN 031, FD ENG 041,
           FRE OP 042, LMN 052 and RAD OP 211 MOCs see DAPS, Appendix 2.

Issued 1991-05-10


If you want more, then use these as a start to find what you want through the links provided.

CFAO 49-4 -- CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS REGULAR FORCE
« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 09:48:42 by George Wallace »
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