Author Topic: Uncertain about going either multi or helo  (Read 11856 times)

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Offline Bo

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Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« on: December 20, 2007, 11:04:32 »
Ok, I'm nearly done Moose Jaw (just Nav and Form left) and I still can't decide whether to go multi or helo. Ignore my avatar, jets are not in the cards.

I did my OJT at 438 sqn (Griffons, St.Hubert) and enjoyed the atmosphere, the short briefs and debriefs, fun flying, etc. Unfortunately, I know almost nothing about the multi-engine world, how they operate, deployments, lifestyle, etc. My dad keeps hinting that I should go multi because I'll have more doors open for me should I decide to get out of the military (debatable?). As of now though, I'm having way too much fun to ever consider leaving the forces.

Here are some of the factors that will influence my decision:

1. Must be posted to a "decent" sized city, not in Saskatchewan, lol. Any city with 100,000+ population is fine.
2. Fun flying, good crew, good camraderie on the base.
3. Must be home at least 8 months of the year. There was an ex-sea king pilot at my sqn who said his kids sometimes didn't recognize him since he was gone so long. I don't mind being deployed for a mission, but being gone 6 months a year, every year, is a bit much.

Other than that, I'm not really sure what else to look for. Good soccer and hockey teams, maybe a nice golf course  ;D.

So do you guys have any suggestions? What are the pro's and con's on your current airframe? Location?

Zapp Brannigan: The key to victory is discipline, and that means a well made bed. You will practice until you can make your bed in your sleep.
 
Fry: You mean while I'm sleeping in it?

Zapp Brannigan: You won't have time for sleeping soldier, not with all the bed making you'll be doing.

Offline Ditch

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2007, 12:15:46 »
Some of your expectations may be a little over-zealous Bo.

While one of your postings to either a helo or multi unit may involve living in a large city (Edmonton, Winnipeg, Halifax, Victoria, Quebec City, Montreal) - those exact same airframes may involve living in the exact opposite (Comox, Petawawa, Borden, Greenwood, Trenton, Goose Bay, Gander, Cold Lake).

All flying jobs in the CF is fun with good camaraderie - some are just more fun than others.

All CF flying tours must expect some sort of deployments - the only Squadron in the CF that does not actively plan on deploying its aircrew is the dedicated SAR squadrons (442 and 103).  These two units do not have a viable transport role and thus do not get tasked for transport missions or Afghan rotations.

Each community has its time to deploy.  For the past 7 years it has been our TAL Herc units - they deploy 56 days at a time, and can expect 2-3 of these per year.  Before that it was our CH-146 fleet - same sort of deployment.  Apparently, it is now in the works for our Griffs to start up their deployment cycle again.

Multi gives you many more options and airframes than the rotary world.

Good-luck.

Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2007, 12:33:42 »
1. Must be posted to a "decent" sized city, not in Saskatchewan, lol. Any city with 100,000+ population is fine.
2. Fun flying, good crew, good camraderie on the base.
3. Must be home at least 8 months of the year. There was an ex-sea king pilot at my sqn who said his kids sometimes didn't recognize him since he was gone so long. I don't mind being deployed for a mission, but being gone 6 months a year, every year, is a bit much.

Posted to CFB Petawawa.     ;D

Reality check time.

You are not special. You will get posted where the CF decides to place you, deploy as you and your unit are directed, just like everyone else.

Don't like it? VR.

Regards
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

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Offline Bo

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2007, 13:38:49 »
Thanks for the info Inch.

Recce, I get the point. I understand the CF can post us and deploy us as they see fit. However, in the final phase of pilot training, we are asked what airframe we want, and what location we want. And the CF tries their best to accomodate us. I just wanted to see what people had to say about their choices and what they liked/disliked.

I guess I should have used the word "preferred" rather than "must" when referring to posting preferences. We all have to be flexible and be prepared not to get our first choice. I was just saying, given my preferences, what would be the ideal airframe/location?

Pet wouldn't be bad cause the flying is hardcore and they got an awesome soccer team  ;D
Zapp Brannigan: The key to victory is discipline, and that means a well made bed. You will practice until you can make your bed in your sleep.
 
Fry: You mean while I'm sleeping in it?

Zapp Brannigan: You won't have time for sleeping soldier, not with all the bed making you'll be doing.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2007, 13:44:34 »
Sounds like a classic opportunity to conduct a course of action analysis based upon your selection of factors.  The possible combinations of airframe and location are few enough to let you efficiently develop a short list to start with.  Then you can focus your questions to help with the final development of your preferred posting locations.

Offline Ditch

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 13:47:15 »
Thanks for the info Inch.

Did I miss Inch's post?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2007, 14:02:35 »
I don't have 20/20 vision, in fact V3, and I missed it.  Must have been one of those Black Choppers in whisper mode. 
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Offline Bo

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2007, 15:27:19 »
oops! I meant Zoomie!
Zapp Brannigan: The key to victory is discipline, and that means a well made bed. You will practice until you can make your bed in your sleep.
 
Fry: You mean while I'm sleeping in it?

Zapp Brannigan: You won't have time for sleeping soldier, not with all the bed making you'll be doing.

Offline Inch

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 18:19:37 »
Here are some of the factors that will influence my decision:

1. Must be posted to a "decent" sized city, not in Saskatchewan, lol. Any city with 100,000+ population is fine.
2. Fun flying, good crew, good camraderie on the base.
3. Must be home at least 8 months of the year. There was an ex-sea king pilot at my sqn who said his kids sometimes didn't recognize him since he was gone so long. I don't mind being deployed for a mission, but being gone 6 months a year, every year, is a bit much.

1. Halifax is 300,000+
2. Flying is awesome when at sea, kind of boring when ashore and 423 is pretty awesome these days.
3. Not going to happen in Sea Kings. Expect one 6 month deployment and associated workups and exercises every other year. Last year I was at sea for 8 months. Next year will be the same. When you're not getting ready for a deployment, expect 3-4 week exercises at least 4 times a year.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2007, 18:38:13 »
Bo, my 2 ยข?  Balance your "perfect plan" with "enjoying the moment".

Firstly, keep concentrating on flight training...now is not the time to lose focus and tube yourself!

Next...well, sure, you might want to consider things down the road, but honestly....give such factors a low weighting.  Plan on things closer in...what do you want to do for your introduction into operational flying.  Honestly, you can't go wrong with anything the CF does these days (well, maybe flying around a bunch of navs in the back of a Dash-8 at CFANS wouldn't be on my top-ten list of things to do before I die...  ;) )

As others have said, you can state a preference, but don't have any illusions about being in control...guys with plans more solid than you have had them crushed with a "Congratulations, you're off to fly XXX's in YYYY!" "What?"  :o

I was a die hard "Wann fly 18's, T-birds, Tutes!" kind of guy going through YMJ, but got the divert, went helos, and have had a blast for the last 20 years!  I honestly can't think about being a pukey seized-rotor driver!  The thought makes my stomach churn...  ;D

Pass your training, get your wings, and enjoy your first operational tour, whatever it is!

Cheers,
G2G

Offline SF2

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007, 20:09:23 »
echo with G2G....

Nav is the hardest part of moose jaw - pass that first, then worry about your posting.

BTW, what's so "hardcore" about Petawawa (besides the winters?)

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2007, 20:13:07 »
echo with G2G....

Nav is the hardest part of moose jaw - pass that first, then worry about your posting.

BTW, what's so "hardcore" about Petawawa (besides the winters?)

Nav? Hardest part?  Come one!  Clearhood is much harder IMHO.  Much more you can f*** up.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2007, 20:18:29 »
Nav? Hardest part?  Come one!  Clearhood is much harder IMHO.  Much more you can f*** up.

...flying fixed-altitude low-level nav over rising terrain that you didn't think you were over would ruin your day...

Offline Bo

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2007, 20:24:21 »
Good advice Inch and G2G, thanks.

echo with G2G....

Nav is the hardest part of moose jaw - pass that first, then worry about your posting.

BTW, what's so "hardcore" about Petawawa (besides the winters?)



As for Nav being the toughest phase, well, everyone has different opinions on that. A surpisingly high number of people have been failing the BIT and ICHT lately. I guess it all depends.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 20:25:49 by Recce By Death »
Zapp Brannigan: The key to victory is discipline, and that means a well made bed. You will practice until you can make your bed in your sleep.
 
Fry: You mean while I'm sleeping in it?

Zapp Brannigan: You won't have time for sleeping soldier, not with all the bed making you'll be doing.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007, 20:25:56 »
...flying fixed-altitude low-level nav over rising terrain that you didn't think you were over would ruin your day...
I have no doubt about it, but the Moose Jaw Nav is so canned and legs are so short that there is no way to get more than 1 mile off track.  Plus, it's the Prairies.  There isn't much rising terrain around!!

Max

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2007, 20:36:10 »
I have no doubt about it, but the Moose Jaw Nav is so canned and legs are so short that there is no way to get more than 1 mile off track.  Plus, it's the Prairies.  There isn't much rising terrain around!!

Max


...that's not the point.

Offline Inch

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2007, 20:47:04 »
I have no doubt about it, but the Moose Jaw Nav is so canned and legs are so short that there is no way to get more than 1 mile off track.  Plus, it's the Prairies.  There isn't much rising terrain around!!

Max

Always have a come-back eh?

It's been a few years since I was blasting around MJ but I seem to remember the terrain rising at least 1000ft to the south of MJ. I found it easy enough to get lost, especially when your turn point is a town that doesn't exist anymore and the world is moving at 4 miles a min. By the way, the clearhood stuff is also marked on a Nav test, I know guys that failed the BNT for their overhead breaks as one of the fail points.

Bo,

Good points brought up by G2G and SF2, any flying tour is going to be pretty good for your first few years, there really is no bad job. They all have their pros and cons and you just need to figure out what suits you best based on what you want. I was a College aviation guy with a Commercial Aeroplane licence amongst a whole class of fixed wing aviators, when I got to Moose Jaw my opinion changed and I ended up helos. Even flying a 40+ yr old helicopter that is the media's favourite whipping horse, I absolutely love the job. We do things in Sea Kings that the TacHel, CSS and SAR guys don't get to do, on the flip side, they get to do some pretty cool stuff on NVGs that we don't use as of yet and won't use until the Cyclone comes online in the next few years.

As far as cities, you can't get much better than Halifax or Victoria, if locale is your prime motivating factor, I can't wait to teach you to land on a ship. If flying formation low level on NVGs is your thing, the TacHel guys will be happy to see some fresh faces. Same for any community really. Right now, just figure out if you want Multi or Helo. The best way to do this is to talk to some of your instructors that have been there, I know I was convinced Sea Kings were for me by my primary instructor in Moose Jaw.

Good luck on the rest of your course.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2007, 20:51:41 »
Bo, were you in MJ in July (i.e. during Armed Forces Day)?  ;)

Offline Bo

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2007, 21:42:59 »
Inch, again, great advice, thanks.

G2G, yeah I was there...umm, why do you ask?
Zapp Brannigan: The key to victory is discipline, and that means a well made bed. You will practice until you can make your bed in your sleep.
 
Fry: You mean while I'm sleeping in it?

Zapp Brannigan: You won't have time for sleeping soldier, not with all the bed making you'll be doing.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2007, 21:48:22 »
I was passing through and saw some of the demos...you can figure that what the Griffon was doing would be pretty representative of what you'd fly at a tac hel sqn.

G2G

Offline SF2

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2007, 07:20:26 »
no one's failing nav anymore?

I guess they started giving out real maps.....i'm sure the early NFTC'ers remember the blurry photocopied 1:500,000??  ::)

Offline MAJONES

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2007, 08:19:46 »
Just to put in my $0.02.  You mentioned that you were thinking about which airframe would give you more options when you retired to civi life.  I can say with great confidence that helo is your best bet in that regard.  I worked as a fixed wing civi pilot for 7 years before I joined and it has been my experience that there is usually a surplus of fixed wing pilots (even ones with MIFRs and heavy jet time).  I've known guys who went from the left seat of a 757 straight back to flying pop 'n chips up north.  On the flip side, I've as yet to meet an unemployed, high time, rotary wing pilot.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2007, 15:51:59 »
no one's failing nav anymore?

I guess they started giving out real maps.....i'm sure the early NFTC'ers remember the blurry photocopied 1:500,000??  ::)
We use Falcon View now!!

Offline Globesmasher

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2007, 21:58:21 »

3. Must be home at least 8 months of the year.


Then, my friend, you do NOT want to be involved in fixed wing, multi engine, transport operations.
I cannot think of too many "operational" flying positions that will accommodate such a demand.

Best of luck in your search and decision.

Offline Strike

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Re: Uncertain about going either multi or helo
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2007, 22:28:59 »
Then, my friend, you do NOT want to be involved in fixed wing, multi engine, transport operations.
I cannot think of too many "operational" flying positions that will accommodate such a demand.

Best of luck in your search and decision.

Echoing that post, on the helo side, the Tac Hel types may not yet be deploying in anything but a TUAV capacity (as a group), but they still spend alot of time away what with supporting Army courses and work-ups along with all the yearly operations like Op Hurricane and such.
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