Author Topic: The Martial Arts Superthread  (Read 50365 times)

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Offline paracowboy

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2005, 23:18:01 »
Also, a lot of the kicks and punches you see in Ultimate Fighter are derivetives of TKD and Boxing, it's called Muay Thai.
yes and no. Muay Thai is not derived from TKD or boxing. It is a purely Thai system, an offshoot of Krabbi Krabbong. Modern Muay Thai champs have begun to integrate western boxing into their system, because of its' superior hand strikes, as well as it's teaching of slipping a punch, and quick footwork.

Modern western kick-boxing is basically TKD kicks and boxing punches.

Quote
People with no formal martial arts training are dangerous foes, they just bull rush you, swinging and kicking and that is extremely hard to defend against.
spot on. I've long since lost count of the number of 'kungfoo/krotty' guys I've seen get their heads handed to them by street fighters.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2005, 00:35:12 »
spot on. I've long since lost count of the number of 'kungfoo/krotty' guys I've seen get their heads handed to them by street fighters.

All the flowery high kick multi spin arts are a thing of beauty to watch, between two trained practitioners.  A madly rushing and swinging gorilla on the street needs to be closed with and shut down in short order.  That's why I feel grappling, with a lot of choke and strangle holds, plus heavy use of joint locks is ideal. Almost every down and dirty scrap I was ever in ended up on the floor, very few standing back and jabbing each others head off.  The longer a fight lasts, the less your chance of escaping uninjured becomes.  Blitzkrieg, baby... hit hard, hit first, hit fast, get the **** outa Dodge... ;D

Kat
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2005, 00:35:43 »
Quote
OMFG, hiliarious!!!

I think people are going to use cyber taekwondo if you keep using slang like that here ;)

Teaching a little martial arts is a bad thing.
I'm not a fan of the odd hand to hand combat training that the army sometimes throws in as a space filler because it's dangerous.

Soldiers either
a. get a false sense of security (also very common with womens self defense classes)
b.   learn enough to seriously hurt someone but not enough control.
Imagine a protester or someone shoving a soldier and a soldier defends themselves by snapping a bone or something else else. Right to defend themselves aside, this is Canada. There would be a big investigation and you better bet the martial arts schools around bases would have to close shop pretty fast. "Soldiers learning how to kill with their hands, somalia bla bla bla"   Typical media.

I really like the idea of intrigrating martial arts into weekly PT. It's a good work out and will teach our soldiers how to defend themselves properly.
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Offline Island Ryhno

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2005, 07:12:31 »
Modern western kick-boxing is basically TKD kicks and boxing punches.

Yes, sorry Para, this is basically what I was trying to say. The westernized version of Muay Thai. This is a great conversation, better than most I've had about MMA which go to shite in about three comments.
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Offline paracowboy

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2005, 08:57:38 »
All the flowery high kick multi spin arts are a thing of beauty to watch, between two trained practitioners.   A madly rushing and swinging gorilla on the street needs to be closed with and shut down in short order.   That's why I feel grappling, with a lot of choke and strangle holds, plus heavy use of joint locks is ideal. Almost every down and dirty scrap I was ever in ended up on the floor, very few standing back and jabbing each others head off.   The longer a fight lasts, the less your chance of escaping uninjured becomes.   Blitzkrieg, baby... hit hard, hit first, hit fast, get the **** outa Dodge...
A-men! Preach it, brother! I feel that the best system is one that incorporates strikes, grappling, and the mysterious art of the 911 cell phone call. Learn to box! For the love of Heaven, get into a boxing ring. I've seen so many artists get seriously hurt by fighters because they don't practice hitting people or getting hit by people. Learn to kick - TKD, Karate, Muay Thai, savate... Learn to grapple - judo, jujitsu, chin'na, shuai chiao, wrestling. Gene LeBell once stated that Judo was wrestling with handles. Learn to have your cell phone handy and be able to call the cops, and survive while they get there. This is the first step towards your Shodan in "Court Kung Fu".
 Failing your intention to study a modern eclectic system, I'd advise you to follow Bruce Lee's path and test your system against other styles. Take your Tae Kwan Do into a Wing Chun kwoon and spar with them. Go into a Judo dojo, a boxing ring, etc. Find a school that excells in weaponry, and try to defend yourself against knives and sticks.


Teaching a little martial arts is a bad thing.
I'm not a fan of the odd hand to hand combat training that the army sometimes throws in as a space filler because it's dangerous.
not to mention useless, since it takes hours and thousands of repititions for an act to be committed to muscle memory. When sensory exclusion hits, and fine motor skills go out the window, the body falls back on instinct. Training must become instinctive for it to become effective. That means thousands of kicks thrown, and thousands of throws received, and thousands of choke holds applied.
Properly.

Quote
Soldiers either
a. get a false sense of security (also very common with womens self defense classes)
b. learn enough to seriously hurt someone but not enough control.
very true. As witnessed every year in Meaford and Wainwright where young recruits get their heads torn off by street-fighting farm boys. 

Quote
I really like the idea of intrigrating martial arts into weekly PT. It's a good work out and will teach our soldiers how to defend themselves properly.
I think it should be mandatory. Not just to teach our soldiers how to survive, but to instill so many of the "manly graces". Failing to teach our troops how to survive Hand-to-Gland is negligent and criminal. Espcially in today's world of asymmetric warfare, when he may have to restrain a woman, shoot a man in the face, punch out an attacker, and try to keep the dog from biting his arse. All in the same friggin' room!
...time to cull the herd.

Offline FITSUMO

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2005, 09:34:00 »
paracowboy is right,
Try all the arts you can, learn how to effectively fight in every range, I trained in a very street wise JKD school, where we would invite teachers from other schools and learn what might be effective for us.  Never leave home without a little Kali, jkd,  BJJ, boxing, and muay thai. As was said earlier, most "streetfights" will end up on the ground, but you never want to stay there, ( think guys friends playing soccer with your head).  I love BJJ, but if you are worried about street fights/street defense you should find a school that teaches vale tudo.  A buddy of mine, who is a great BJJ guy, got a concussion from moi when we allowed punching, so it is very important to understand the ground and pound concept

Being a 22 year vet of martail arts and 14 years of bouncing, ( going to state the obvious, but it needs to be said) leave your ego at the door( hard for alpha types) and always try and spar with people that are way better than you, you will take your lumps but you will grow very fast.

train hard.
"you might beat me, but you will have to bleed to do it"(Pre)

arte et marte

Offline Zarathustra

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2005, 10:26:12 »
I would add that martial arts should deal with weapons and multi-attackers otherwise it's just sport. It should also allow you to kill/incapacitate an opponent quickly. The referee cannot decide who won.

But why isn't some of this taught in the CF ? Lack of instructors? Too long to learn ? Preference for bullets and high-tech solutions ?
"The more I practice the luckier I get."

Offline Island Ryhno

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2005, 22:56:38 »
Here is something that we are adding into our Combat System that we are developing at our martial arts school. It's called San Shou and is an excellent fighting technique which mixes take downs with strikes. We've added our Judo and Ju Jitsu to it, so after a takedown you would try for a submission armbar or choke. I'll let you guys know how it goes. http://www.chanskungfu.com/videos/danda.wmv
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Offline Mojo Magnum

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2005, 23:02:22 »
nice stuff
interesting that they don't go to submission.
More fun to watch.
Hazaa!

Offline Jaxson

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2005, 23:15:42 »
A little off topic...

But Like fitsumo i did some bouncing (6 months for me opposed to his 14 years) and you would be surprised how nuts it can get in some bars and how when your back to back with people and you got 2 guys with pool cues or a beer bottle coming at you, you realize just how damn quick you need to react. I saw this one guy who had just started bouncing at this club i worked at, when i was in my last month ( what happened to him was the reason i quit cause it was too crazy for 100$ a night)   anyways this fresh bouncer with his "Ive done 6 years of boxing don't worry about me attitude" had a pool cue snapped over his head and had the now very sharp and jagged end jammed into his leg, at which point he fell and took a steel toed boot to the head 4 times, i saw the guy about 2-3 months after that, and his tough guy attitude had to say the least disappeared. Oh ya and the whole incident happened because the bouncer asked him to step away from the patio door cause he (the drunk) was in the way.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2005, 00:04:49 »
I would add that martial arts should deal with weapons and multi-attackers otherwise it's just sport. It should also allow you to kill/incapacitate an opponent quickly. The referee cannot decide who won.

But why isn't some of this taught in the CF ? Lack of instructors? Too long to learn ? Preference for bullets and high-tech solutions ?
As I mentioned earlier, there has been a concerted effort over the last 25 years to breed the aggression out of our soldiers.  All contact sports; gone, Pugil training; gone.  The only contact sport left is hockey, and let's face it, since the CFEHL closed down, army hockey is a shadow of its former self. As I said before, a lot less effort goes into planning a run four mornings out of five, than booking a room full of mats and getting stuck in to each other.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline hoote

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2005, 12:26:30 »
I have a blackbelt in Taekwon-do.  I am a 9 time gold medalist and a national champion.  I was on the Alberta team in 1993-1994. I will be the first one to tell you that few TKD techniques are useful for soldiering.  Why?  Because many of them are complex kicks which involve spinning or other finite motor movements.  Besides, can you see a man with all his battle gear on, rifle, and ruck doing a spin kick?  Or even kicking above his own groin?

The only useful kicks from TKD are the side kick (you can break someone in half with one of those) and the front kick (can be done fast to hurt someone or kick open doors, etc.)  Both of those can be learned in a few months and mastered over years.  As for all the other patterns and crap, they are good to help you learn reaction time, speed and how to use gravity, aka dropping power, when you strike but again require YEARS to master. Thus TKD is not practical to teach recruits in BMQ or whatever.   

So in my opinion and after years in TKD, as well as meddling with judo, jiujitsu, knife fighting, karate, etc. I have learned that knowing TOO MANY MOVES = FREEZING IN A FIGHT!!!

It has it happened to me lots.  When I was the TKD champ in highschool and after I had was in a few street fights and at the beginning I didn't know what to do.  I froze.  The problem was I had 100 things in my mind but had to think about what to use.  That is the problem.  When adrenaline flows, you cannot think!  YOU REACT.  SO if you practice a few moves a million times, you will be better off than practicing a million different moves a few times.  Variety is not the key.

What one needs to learn is how to instinctively react to an attack without having to memorize specific techniques.  GROSS BODY MOVEMENTS that just come out of you whether you are standing, sitting, surprised or ready. 

Go to www.attackproof.com and you will see what I mean.  This is the ultimate fighting system.  And it works and shows why it is superior to jiujitsu, karate, tkd, etc.     
You DON'T give into the pain you just adjust for it! That's it! Minor adjustments! If you can't do it perfect, then YOU just change a little bit. DON'T GIVE INTO THE PAIN AND QUIT!
 -Instructor Gaines Navy Seal BUDS Instructor giving it to the trainees on the grinder

Offline SK HCA

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2005, 15:22:25 »
Two words: 

Krav Maga

www.krav-maga.com

Offline Cpl Massecar

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2005, 15:39:29 »
Where is there a sytema school in Hamilton? I'd like to check it out.
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Offline Savage_Tactical

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2005, 22:33:27 »
Anyone know of any bases offering Hapkido?
"You can't trust freedom when it's not in your hand."

Offline gate_guard

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2005, 23:10:49 »
In the place of years of cross training in grappling and striking arts, knowing a few moves really well is not a bad idea. Anybody who has gone a few rounds in the dojo or on the street knows that more often than not you can finish 90% of fights with maybe five techniques. Just watch some NHB competitions if you haven't had first hand knowledge, how many times have you seen a fight end in a rear naked choke or an armbar, or in many cases a well timed right hook. It wouldn't take much to train our troops in a few of these proven techniques. Besides the practical reasons of self defense, I believe that hand to hand combat training instills a warrior mindset, something that we've let fall by the wayside in favour of more politically correct endeavours. Just think, it doesn't cost anything and an impromptu lecture or practice session can be set up virtually anywhere.
As for the opinion that there is an ultimate system of fighting, sorry I don't agree.

Offline Savage_Tactical

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2005, 23:22:39 »
Yup, I agree that just normal brawling/street fighting is quite dangerous. I am totally untrained in any martial arts, but I've been a few fights/scraps and been able to handle myself just fine and dandy. One of them was against a dude who attended about 15 years of Karate classes, BlackBelt and all. I just went in and punched when I knew I could hit. Knee'd when I knew I could get a good knee in... but one thing is that in ALL of the fights I've been in, I've never hit a guy when he was down on the ground.

Hate to repeat myself, but I think my earlier post might be overlooked where it's so small....


Anyone know of any bases offering Hapkido?
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Offline sigtech

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2005, 10:09:44 »
Yup, I agree that just normal brawling/street fighting is quite dangerous. I am totally untrained in any martial arts, but I've been a few fights/scraps and been able to handle myself just fine and dandy. One of them was against a dude who attended about 15 years of Karate classes, BlackBelt and all. I just went in and punched when I knew I could hit. Knee'd when I knew I could get a good knee in... but one thing is that in ALL of the fights I've been in, I've never hit a guy when he was down on the ground.

Hate to repeat myself, but I think my earlier post might be overlooked where it's so small....


Anyone know of any bases offering Hapkido?
As far as Hapkido where are you located currenlty and where are you going to be posted?
Second why Hapkido? just wondering Hap is a good martial art but not as common on bases as TKD , Jiu Jitsu , or Judo
Ya the problem is Karate doesn't have alot of street application not like Kali or Jiu Jitsu or Krav like Boxers throw something at the Karata man that he isn't used to like a leg kick or a elbow and they get messed up.
Now don't get me wrong all froms of self defense has there place, but with out a mix the unknown can really mess you up. When looking for a form that suits you remember this one word simple. if the defenses are simple when it comes down to it you won't be able to perform said defenses. Krav is a great example of K.I.S.S.
The greater the obstacle, the more glory in overcoming it." (Moliere)

Offline mainerjohnthomas

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2005, 10:57:17 »
     My basic martial art background is Karate and Jujitsu, but I have also dabbled in Tai-Chi, Tae Kwan do, Judo, and wrestling.  I have found that a mix of  a striking style and grappling style is the best bet, but the system you choose is not that important.  What is important is that you train in your chosen art until you react without thought.  The training must be realistic; your enemy cannot be expected to use "legal" moves, respect strike zones, or any of the sport style nonesense that turns suburban martial artists into fodder for street fighters.  The training must stress agression.  Your object should always be to do your enemy the maximum harm, with maximum speed.  All of us can do our IA's and stoppages in our sleep, but how many have given the same training to reacting to getting jumped hand to hand?  If you ever need your unarmed training, you will not have time to think about it, and like any soldier, you should have availed yourself of the chance to train your reflexes to instantly respond with the most effective technique you posses.  The first thought you should have time for should be, "who is that guy bleeding on the ground, and what the heck was his problem anyway?"  As Bruce Lee was fond of saying, everyone has two arms and two legs, and we all move the same, so all martial science is basically the same.  Your body is the one weapon you always have with you, you should be as familiar with it as you are your issue weapon.
When cowards run from death, it is life they escape.

Offline Pearson87

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Re: Military Martial Arts
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2005, 15:22:35 »
Russel Forster was teaching Hapkido to the CF in ablerta back when I was training with his father in Prince George. Last time I heard from him he was in Cold Lake, not sure if he still teaches, the CF. Would be worth looking for him if that is what you were interested in doing.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Martial Arts On Roto 2 Op Archer
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2006, 14:03:01 »
Is anyone heading out on op archer roto2 interested in starting any kind of martial arts club or practicing?  Judo, jujitsu, aikido taekwondo etc..

Not sure what they have in place there already but it never hurt to do a little recce :)

EDIT: Fixed your title, .......still spent from watching the spelling bee?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2006, 17:49:20 by Bruce Monkhouse »
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Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Martial art son roto2 op archer
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2006, 17:03:53 »
They do have some martial arts classes in KAF at the gym on weeknights...taekwondo IIRC.

There are always some troops doing some classes at any given time there. Just ask around, you'll find one.

The hardest thing is to have enough time off to go.

Regards
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Martial Arts On Roto 2 Op Archer
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2006, 17:57:21 »
I'm much better at finding time off work than spelling ;)

I hope the martial arts clubs/practices in kaf aren't like the ones I've seen in the past where they are suffocated with rules to the point that everyone looses interest.
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Offline Aries

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Re: Martial Arts On Roto 2 Op Archer
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2006, 10:53:39 »
I'm on OP Archer right now(8jun to 15 dec 06) and the martial arts clubs are either always full up or completely useless( like the TKD).

Currently i hit the heavy bag to practice my boxing and have another guy whose teaching me the very little he knows about karate, plus whatever i remember from jiu jitsu.

Do you instruct and what is your style?
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Offline StevenPreece

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The Martial Arts Superthread
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2007, 06:05:15 »
I guess the martial arts subject is always a good one for conversation. However, have many of you suffered accidents whilst training?

Last year I suffered damage to my internal organs, from a blow. I was in a lot of pain for some weeks and at one point thought my number was up. Anyway and thankfully, with some professional help I made a full recovery.

A few weeks ago I was teaching a guy how to roll out of an arm lock. He was a tadge confused that night. I could tell by the blank look on his face. Unfortunately, he got muddled up with what he was meant to do. He applied a hand and thumb lock on my right hand and then dived into a role across the floor. I momentarily looked to roll with him, but the angle was awkward and I could feel my Radius and Ulna (Forearm) bones starting to bend slightly. Consequently, I stopped his role in mid flow. This reduced the chance of him snapping my arm. However, the lock was still applied and my thumb was nearly dislocated. There was a fair amount of pain as the muscles around my thumb, wrist and forehand all tore.

Its been 3 weeks now and its starting to get better. The hard part is working your way through your everyday life trying to work around injuries like this until they repair themselves. Still, it happens from time to time, doesn't it.

Anyone had any similar experiences?

Cheers

Steve
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