Author Topic: Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)  (Read 850820 times)

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Offline c_canuk

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Looks like they forgot to add the AKwhatever code for ACISS DP2 modernization. Probably easier for all you folks to just submit PLAR docs and get the courses granted.

No that's where I got the AKOH Competency, This does mean though, that I probably won't get back pay till 2011 as promised since I got loaded onto DP2.1D much later despite having a complete PLAR.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline Alpheus

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Fvcked again.

How is DP2.0 relevant to being a tech?  Its a core course!  But hey, it's only 2.5 years of back pay down the toilet.

Offline PuckChaser

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Because your DP2.0 is part of your course package that makes you a substantive Cpl much like the old QL5 was the spec pay course.

If you've been a Cpl for 2.5 years and didn't mention to your CoC that you needed that course,  you need to shoulder some blame for not getting that back pay.

Offline c_canuk

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Fvcked again.

How is DP2.0 relevant to being a tech?  Its a core course!  But hey, it's only 2.5 years of back pay down the toilet.

As Puckchaser mentioned, it's in line with other spec pay that you need the QL5 equivalent to prove you're out of the training stage and actually providing specialist skillsets to the job. As far as I'm aware all spec pay is after DP2.0/QL5.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline c_canuk

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For any IST's interested, CDS order is being corrected, but some very good sources state that the pay/backpay/qual is:

"AKOX AND AKOF AND AKOH"

REF is CDS Directive 046/17, which currently has an OR in there, but its being changed to AND.

Do you have a link to this? I'm not seeing enumerated CDS Directives from the DIN, just a handful of directives to staff officers and the search is not helping.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Do you have a link to this? I'm not seeing enumerated CDS Directives from the DIN, just a handful of directives to staff officers and the search is not helping.

Laughably, you may be able to find more information on the ACISS-IST FB group here. It's for IST's only though:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/239432422884449
"When I retire, I want to become a gay Hollywood actor, they always make more money!"... My old boss's plans ;)

ACISS-IST's, look here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/239432422884449

PS> It's not a trap!

Offline ringo598

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You can find the updated info here too, the public internet website has been updated with the codes as well:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/specialist-pay-reg-force-ncm-mosids.page
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline c_canuk

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I found out why I don't have AKOX on my docs, I have AKOY which was the Sgt's Conversion course, as I was 6As qualified at the time.

So my Trg Coord contact says he would assume AKOY being the conversion course for Sgt, it would be a higher level than AKOX which was the MCpl Conversion, should entitle me.

I figure I'll have to PLAR AKOX if the clerks don't see it that way. We shall see.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline ringo598

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FYI:  Not sure what most of this means, clerk speak, but from what I gather they've started getting things sorted out.

Date:  31 Jan 2018

Subject: ACISS ACCOUNT CORRECTIONS

DMPAP has commenced the correction to ACISS members pay accounts.  This is to advise units that they should place a PRZ note on ACISS member’s accounts for the foreseeable future.  Members with a 52D note with January 2018 date attached do not require a PRZ note.  These accounts have already been corrected.  There is no current timeline for completion of this project but DMPAP will remove individual PRZ notes as file corrections are completed.  DMPAP will place a 52D note on the account indicating that corrections have been made.
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline PuckChaser

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PRZ notes mean you're paid manually instead of letting the system spit out numbers for the 15th and the 30th. I have had one before when my pay was all screwed up after CTing. Looks like they're trying to stop CCPS from compounding any errors already there.

Offline Alpheus

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FYI:  Not sure what most of this means, clerk speak, but from what I gather they've started getting things sorted out.

Hardly.  Most CSTs have been on manually inputted pay since the spec pay back pay debacle started in March last year.  Didn't stop them from screwing up my end Feb pay, clawed back 7 months of spec pay that I never received, a time period that started AFTER my OT went through.  :facepalm:

Offline Alpheus

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Oh, and those of us with f**ked up tax situations will receive a modified T4 in the spring to correct the pay balance issue.  I have complete confidence that this will not happen.

Hey look, right again!  I hate it when that happens.  At this rate, I probably won't even be paid mid-month.

Offline Cobrajr

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soooo has anyone seen appropriate back pay clawed back and an updated T4 yet?

Offline ringo598

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I was told by our clerks no new T4, its being paid out this year, so it'll be on this year (2018) T4 that we will get in 2019, so all the backpay will count towards this years income.  Not sure how accurate, but that's what I'm being told at least.
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline Alpheus

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I was told by our clerks no new T4, its being paid out this year, so it'll be on this year (2018) T4 that we will get in 2019, so all the backpay will count towards this years income.  Not sure how accurate, but that's what I'm being told at least.

That is the situation for ISTs I think, since they didn't have the backpay balance appear in on their pay account in March last year.

Most, if not all CSTs had the back pay appear on their pay balance in March last year, Revenue Canada thinks they were paid it in 2017.  My 2017 T4 has me earning 107K, that sure as heck did not happen.  My clerks are tracking and working to get an amended one.  And by working, I mean messaging Ottawa about it, since they don't have any control over my pay.

Also, my end Feb pay is also incorrect, to go along with the end Jan screw-up.  I'm seeing a trend here....

Offline Cobrajr

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That is the situation for ISTs I think, since they didn't have the backpay balance appear in on their pay account in March last year.

Most, if not all CSTs had the back pay appear on their pay balance in March last year, Revenue Canada thinks they were paid it in 2017.  My 2017 T4 has me earning 107K, that sure as heck did not happen.

Yeah, this is my issue.

With the "unforeseen" change of what qualifies CST for spec pay (AKOR+AKOX?, 2.0+2.1 CST) I owe back ~6 months of spec. If they don't get that figured out before the end of feb I will not receive an updated T4, so I will be paying taxes on the money in the higher bracket that I did not earn, and have the clawed back money taken off my 2018 T4, and get a tax return at a lower rate, thus I would loose money.

Offline Chad.wiseman

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Acis trade training
« Reply #1816 on: February 24, 2018, 20:18:42 »
Wondering how long the trade training is for a reaervist in acis?  Thanks.

Offline runormal

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Re: Acis trade training
« Reply #1817 on: February 25, 2018, 01:05:51 »
Wondering how long the trade training is for a reaervist in acis?  Thanks.

Roughly 2 months for your DP 1.0
You should have your drive wheel prior to going on the DP 1.0 which is another month. Your DP 2.0 is 2 weeks (it's a joke). Your 1.1 and 2.1 (linemen) courses are fairly lengthy.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 15:38:25 by runormal »

Offline ringo598

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Update:  So...IST/CST not getting spec pay for awhile?

*** Sent on behalf of LCol I.R. Marchand ***

** This email has been sent to affected members of the RCCS, all RCCS Senior Officers and Senior NCOs **


It has been more than two months since our last official communication concerning ACISS specialist pay – although there has been many developments on this file, we assessed that it was best to ensure we had a firm understanding of the way ahead before re engaging with our community and our soldiers. Please disseminate this message to all concerned personnel.

1. FORMER LCIS TECHS

All technical data on former LCIS Techs who are entitled to specialist pay retroactive to 1 October 2011 has been provided to the Director of Human Resources and Information Management (DHRIM). This organization takes that data for every individual ACISS-LCIS Tech and rebuilds their military employment history in the Human Resource Management System (HRMS). While this process is achievable within a relatively reasonable amount of time, it is only part of the process. Once HRMS has been updated, files are then transferred to the pay authority, Director Military Pay and Allowances Processing (DMPAP). They must synchronize the new HRMS data with the member’s pay account, rebuilding the pay history – cycle by cycle (in 2 week intervals) for approximately 7 years. Because this process cannot be scripted, all actions need to be manual inputs and it is very time consuming and vulnerable to error. One file takes approximately 1 hour to synchronize, and that is when there are no complications. To date, several hundred files have been either completed or in the process of being completed. Given the complexity and unpredictability of file processing, DMPAP cannot provide an estimated time for completion. They have dedicated resources to our requirement and will continue to provide feedback as large number of files are completed. We are confident that they are working as fast as reasonably possible and our team will continue to work with them on LCIS files until every last soldier is correctly compensated.

2. CST /IST

IAW CDS Order 046/17, IST and CST were granted specialist pay retroactive to 1 October 2011; for a variety of reasons, the payment and/or corrective actions to pay accounts for these individuals has not commenced. First, we have to process LCIS Techs as a priority and the work cannot be done concurrently - as it is being completed by the same authorities within DHRIM and DMPAP. Secondly, and equally as important, we are currently working on modifying the Military Employment Structure (MES) of ACISS in order to greatly simplify career management and better manage the payment of specialist pay for the future. Unfortunately, but unforeseeable at the time, the revised ACISS MESIP (Aug 31 17) was not structured with CST and IST as specialist trades. Our attempts to establish a structure that could accommodate them being specialist trades in the future was not supported. As such, only once CDS Order 046/17 was approved in December 2017 could we begin the work to amend the structure to reflect IST/CST as specialist pay trades. In short, we need to fix this before we move forward or we would be complicating the career management of these sub occupations. Making this fix is now our main effort. Our objective is that a new MES can be in place shortly after the completion/payment of former LCIS Tech files.

3. CST – AKOR BEFORE AKOX

We sent an advisory in early January warning that any CST member who had received retroactive pay, but, who had qualified AKOR before AKOX, should be very cautious about spending all of their money because it is highly likely that some of it will be recuperated. To reiterate, when CDS Order 050/16 erroneously granted specialist pay to CST in January 2017, the pay authority based the backdated payment on the day the soldier obtained DP 2.1 (not taking into account DP 2.0 – AKOX). This should not have happened and we only discovered this oversight in late 2017 when reviewing the implementation of CDS Order 046/17. We encourage all units to look closely at these situations on an individual basis to mitigate the financial impact on our soldiers. While we have no mechanism to prevent a recuperation of monies paid between the date the soldier achieved AKOR (the date they were paid IAW CDS Order 050/16) and the date they achieved the latest of AKOR and AKOX (the date they should have been paid IAW CDS Order 046/17) – there are various courses open to alleviate the burden. The chain of command may contact us or G1 Personnel Policy to discuss individual cases.

4. CISTM

Recently, we have received many questions concerning CISTM and specialist pay, namely, why we have a structure in which a CST or IST Sgt will be promoted only to lose their specialist pay. This is a valid question, and we want all affected WOs and MWOs to know that we asked the same question to the authority which evaluates specialist pay. CISTM was considered for specialist pay in 2013 and were told by authorities unequivocally that CISTM was not eligible for specialist pay. Subsequent efforts by RCCS to petition for its consideration (2016, 2017) met with a similar inability to persuade the policy holder of our logic. Despite our unwavering assessment that IST and CST WO remains a specialist after promotion from Sgt, based on the Director of Pay Policy Development’s system for specialist pay evaluation, it would not meet the threshold to be assigned to the specialist pay trade group. To be clear, former LCIS Techs who retain specialist pay as CISTMs are receiving it because of their former status as LCIS Techs – and this is the only reason. We are now evaluating the future trade structure of ACISS to ensure that future evolutions of the MOSID address this discrepancy and ensure that for applicable occupations, our ranks from Cpl to MWO are considered for specialist pay assignment. In the interim, we continue to ask for patience, reinforcing that although we may not have been able to have specialist recognition bestowed on WO-MWO ranks of CST and IST at this time, we are laying the groundwork for the long term compensation of deserving ACISS members from Cpl to MWO.

5. REQUESTS FOR PAY REVIEW

We are aware that many of you had already estimated what amount of retroactive pay you should have received – and, have subsequently discovered that you were paid a lesser amount. First, our leadership advises against this practice of self-calculation. Only the analysts in DMPAP are qualified to calculate retroactive pay transactions given the complexity of rebuilding approximately 400-800 separate transactions and taking into account several General Pay Increases (GPI). However, some soldiers have taken the time to do this exercise. If, based on some form of quantifiable evidence they believe that they should have received additional money – then I suggest that (through the chain of command) they request a review of their pay account. I caution, however, that if such a review reveals that a soldier was overpaid rather than underpaid, recovery action will be initiated and there will be nothing that can be done to avoid it.

6. PENDING RELEASES

We have received a number of requests to accelerate the process of addressing pay files of CST and IST members with pending releases. For reasons described in paragraph 2, we are unable to process these requests at this time as much as we would want to. As file data to DHRIM and DMPAP is processed in groupings of 20-40 soldiers, it is extremely difficult to influence when an induvial soldier’s file is treated. That said, we understand that as some soldiers approach release, the uncertainty of not knowing how their pay situation will affect their retirement income is creating justifiable stress. With this in mind, we will be discussing these scenarios with DMPAP in order to issue supplementary information about how a member who is retired will receive the money that they are owed and how this will affect their pension. Any soldier who is releasing should be informed that RCCS leadership remains responsive to them to provide updates on their pay situation until such a time that it resolved.

7. COMMUNICATIONS

The passage of clear and accurate communication is vital to our community in respect to these challenging developments to ensure soldiers receive proper compensation. To this end we have attempted to provide the most accurate information available, trying to balance the need to accurately inform against issues which evolve weekly. However, communication which has originated from the field has been less than helpful at times. With this in mind, I remind all senior leaders of the RCCS to discourage the passage of negative, incomplete or even inflammatory information through official means (DWAN, town halls) and unofficial means (social media). I will be clear – negative communication does not assist our community in achieving our compensation goals and is dangerous to the morale and health of ACISS and the RCCS. We will continue to provide as much information as we responsibly can, as quickly as we can; any soldier who wishes a more timely update is free to request one from us through the chain of command and they will receive a sitrep accordingly. In short, negativity - especially pessimism based on conjecture - will not assist in achieving the end state and is harmful to our community and credibility.

8. NEXT COMMUNIQUE

Keeping with our objective to provide meaningful and informative communications, our next communique will provide information about the payment of releasing members. Following from this, the next major update will come in April and it will outline the overall progress in ACISS-LCIS files as well as progress in re-aligning the ACISS MES to improve the management of IST and CST soldiers for specialist pay purposes.

Interim questions may be sent to the undersigned, or Major J Manley at G1 Personnel Policy (613) 971-7282.

Respectfully,
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."- Mikhail Kalashnikov, Creator of the AK47

Offline PuckChaser

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Hshahahaha. Remember when MES told everyone that they wanted CISTMs to get spec 2? What a gongshow of a project.

Offline rmc_wannabe

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This reaffirms my belief that the RCCS Chain of Command no longer has the best interests of its members in mind. This is all a matter of saving face. Especially the gag order on para 7.

I will most likely be out of the CAF before we see the end of this nightmare.
"One of the most feared expressions in modern times is 'The computer is down.'"
 -Norman Ralph Augustine

Offline Pre-flight

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So how does this work then, will someone promoted from Sgt to WO go down in pay or do they at least get pay protected at Sgt 4 Spec 1?

Offline PuckChaser

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So how does this work then, will someone promoted from Sgt to WO go down in pay or do they at least get pay protected at Sgt 4 Spec 1?

It looks that way, a pay freeze at whatever Sgt Spec 1 IPC you're at when you get promoted to WO, until you hit an IPC of a rank that would net you a pay raise. Another massive fail from the MES group, that will not be rectified until we get the next restructure done or someone convinces the CDS to generate another order moving CISTM into Spec 1 group (which is highly unlikely to happen as LSTs fall under CISTM and do not get Spec 1).

Offline Halifax Tar

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No dog in this fight.  But watching you  guys in the RCCS, while at JSR or now from the extreme outside, I find it hard fathom that other branches are still pursuing this method of combining whole branches into one master trade.  Lesson learned don't exist I guess.
Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline c_canuk

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More like, those pushing for changes based for purely ideological reasons, will ignore the realities of other similar efforts, because they believe the flaw was in previous efforts implementers. They will not accept that the ideology was flawed. Especially if their reputation has a stake in it.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill