Author Topic: Paid Education [Merged]  (Read 95383 times)

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #175 on: March 11, 2017, 15:21:35 »
One interesting thing about getting an education, is that one must learn how to do research and understand what they have found.  If everything is handed to them on a silver spoon, they seldom learn, nor remember, the material.

Thanks once again mariomike for doing so much research for others.
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Offline nyrox

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #176 on: March 11, 2017, 15:27:17 »
One interesting thing about getting an education, is that one must learn how to do research and understand what they have found.  If everything is handed to them on a silver spoon, they seldom learn, nor remember, the material.
Like I said in my post, if you're not going to try to help, don't reply. This forum section is for us who are uneducated in certain topics to ask for guidance or help from others who have knowledge of it. You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #177 on: March 11, 2017, 15:30:09 »
You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.

Offline kratz

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #178 on: March 11, 2017, 16:38:04 »
Like I said in my post, if you're not going to try to help, don't reply. This forum section is for us who are uneducated in certain topics to ask for guidance or help from others who have knowledge of it. You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.

On an open forum, you do not have the ability to frame how others will respond to your questions. When you ask strangers for help with a question, you are at the mercy of their time, inclination to reply and the information contain in the answer. 
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #179 on: March 11, 2017, 16:59:32 »
Like I said in my post, if you're not going to try to help, don't reply. This forum section is for us who are uneducated in certain topics to ask for guidance or help from others who have knowledge of it. You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.

Welcome to Army.ca, nyrox.

Please do not attempt to tell DS what the purpose of a forum section that they moderate is. That never goes over well.

This Site is run by serving and former serving Members of the CF. We run it in accordance with the experience and expectations that we have derived from that Service. We expect members to do their homework before asking questions, and for good and valid reasons. Answering questions takes time, and few here have excesses of that precious commodity. We do not mind answering questions, but it gets a trifle irksome responding to the same questions again and again and again. Repetition also clogs up the Site, making searches more onerous and threads longer and more repetitive.

Most information that people seek is already here, and searching has benefits. Aside from developing familiarity with the Site and where information can be found, people frequently find answers to questions that have not even occurred to them at that point.

If something has not already been answered/explained here before, people will happily do their best to provide answers and explanations.

There will be little sympathy, however, for those who are unwilling to spend their own time yet expect others to do so for them.

You'll find the same attitude in the CF as a whole.

That aside, you mentioned "direct entry". "Direct Entry Officer" (DEO) has a specific meaning, but I am not sure that was your question. DEO is a programme for Officer applicants who already have a degree, as opposed to ROTP or CEOTP.

Edited - I finally noticed my formatting error.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 11:55:29 by Loachman »

Offline runormal

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #180 on: March 11, 2017, 18:10:28 »
Seeing how it is already March and you haven't applied to school you are not setting yourself up for success.

I'd suggest taking a 5th of year of highschool and go from there, that's what I did and I have no regrets, except not taking French/additional science courses)

You could join the reserves in the process and try out the army, but a timely transfer to the reg-f isn't a guarantee. So if you are thinking of going reg-f in the short term I'm not sure if I'd recommend it. But if you want to go to school you can't find a better job for a student (unless you find something in your field of study).

Option 3 would be to just so the 3-4 year  Reg-F contract and see if you like it. Nothing is making you make a career out of it. Unless you make poor financial choices such as a buying a house or a car that you can't afford or drinking all of your money away.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #181 on: March 11, 2017, 18:31:51 »
There are a handful of programs in place for serving CAF members to go back to school full-time.  However, there are no guarantees.  Selection for the limited number of positions available is done on a competitive basis.  As well, there are pre-requisites to be eligible for such in-service selection processes.

TL;DR: Yes, but...
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Offline sailorprivateer

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #182 on: March 11, 2017, 19:16:02 »
Why don't you apply the ROTP for the 2017-18, if you won't get selected, you can always go for NCM and hoping for UTPNCM when that eligibility comes? I'm interested in the latter but I've been doing distant education and got a couple of credits already with the money I've earned working in a factory. It's good when you are awarded by the CAF's education reimbursement gimmick but taking a couple of courses $600-$700 each online course from your own pocket, how bad of an investment is that if you really want a degree or diploma? $1500 (including exam fee) for a term or year, it's something you might want to consider giving up until you got awarded by their education reimbursement or UTPNCM - cuz I'm already decided on spending education with my own pocket whether or not I get reimbursed or whatever. But getting reimbursed would be dope tho.  [:p

Best of luck.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 19:21:49 by sailorprivateer »
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Offline Spectrum

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #183 on: March 11, 2017, 21:01:27 »
You can get reimbursed through an Individual Learning Plan (ILP) easy enough.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #184 on: March 11, 2017, 21:12:25 »
More on the above, in case the OP is interested,

All things Individual Learning Plan/ILP (merged)
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=27773.25

individualized learning plan 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=122063.0

etc...

Offline Pat in Halifax

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #185 on: March 13, 2017, 05:18:35 »
As well NCM STEP is no longer restricted to new entry only...though this is not generally advertised for some reason....? The same rules apply though; benefit of the Service.....
I'd recommend once you are in to see the BPSO or in some cases, some Units/Bases/??? have NCM PD Councillors.
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Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #186 on: March 13, 2017, 11:07:12 »
I'm on weighing in on ROTP since it was suggested.  The ROTP deadline for ROTP 2017/2018 has already passed, anyone submitting an application for ROTP at this point in time will not be considered until the 2018/2019 campaign begins.

Also nrox, since you're thinking about joining the CAF it would be wise to learn now to decide who you "mouth off" to.  Telling a moderator or directing staff not to be a dick is essentially like telling an instructor or course director in the military the same thing.  Best to learn to bite your tongue now... ;-)

Offline Ryan_T

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Re: Paid Education Program or not?
« Reply #187 on: March 14, 2017, 09:28:46 »
Like I said in my post, if you're not going to try to help, don't reply. This forum section is for us who are uneducated in certain topics to ask for guidance or help from others who have knowledge of it. You don't have to be a dick to people for asking simple questions.
Nyrox.. i have read your request and seen the responses. As much as George looks like he was throwing sarcasm at you w/ the wording, he is right.

The other are right as well. I get confused as to where the answers are to my questions as well since i dont search the forum enough.

I am not sure of your age, but i do recommend carefully checking your options and think 'is the CF (with different personalities) where i want to be. They are point blank & blunt in the CF. I was in Borden and experienced it.

So dont take it to heart if you get a response like that.. i have learned as well. On top of that, you cant tell how serious a person is normally through text.
Welcome to Army.ca, nyrox.

Please do not attempt to tell DS what the purpose of a forum section that they moderate is. That never goes over well.

This Site is run by serving and former serving Members of the CF. We run it in accordance with the experience and expectations that we have derived from that Service. We expect members to do their homework before asking questions, and for good and valid reasons. Answering questions takes time, and few here have excesses of that precious commodity. We do not mind answering questions, but it gets a trifle irksome responding to the same questions again and again and again. Repetition also clogs up the Site, making searches more onerous and threads longer and more repetitive.

Most information that people seek is already here, and searching has benefits. Aside from developing familiarity with the Site and where information can be found, people frequently find answers to questions that have not even occurred to them at that point.

If something has not already been answered/explained here before, people will happily do their best to provide answers and explanations.

There will be little sympathy, however, for those who are unwilling to spend their own time yet expect others to do so for them.

You'll find the same attitude in the CF as a whole.

That aside, you mentioned "direct entry". "Direct Entry Officer" (DEO) has a specific meaning, but I am not sure that was your question. DEO is a programme for Officer applicants who already have a degree, as opposed to ROTP or CEOTP.

Edited - I finally noticed my formatting error.


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Offline Pfred2008

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #188 on: August 31, 2017, 21:57:25 »
I want to make a better life for myself and also serve for the country but problem is, I make a comfortable living right now but just comfortable. I make about 38,000 a year. From what I read, i'll be making like half of that by joining the forces but I also don't understand the A B ladder all that much either. I was wondering, what is the paid education salary like? Eventually, I will make more money of course but i'm sure some of you understand it's scary leaving a comfort zone.

Offline ladnav96

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #189 on: September 04, 2017, 20:13:52 »
Hi guys hope this is the right place for this.

I'm looking to apply in military police, but haven't found any info on paid education for this particular job only that direct entry requires a degree or diploma relating to the job. Like a police technique diploma. Is this a kind of paid education available or do I need to obtain it beforehand.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #190 on: September 04, 2017, 20:21:19 »
I'm looking to apply in military police, but haven't found any info on paid education for this particular job only that direct entry requires a degree or diploma relating to the job. Like a police technique diploma. Is this a kind of paid education available or do I need to obtain it beforehand.

Reply #167,

Please note that there are SEVERAL paid education opportunities in the CAF. The programs you've listed are college level and there aren't many occupations (I think only 5) with NCM-STEP as an entry plan.
I'm not back into the office until 5-Jan so I'm not 100% sure what those 5 occupations are but I do know that Military Police and Firefighter are not in the list.

Buck is our Recruiting moderator.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 08:30:25 by mariomike »

Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #191 on: September 07, 2017, 17:14:45 »
I want to make a better life for myself and also serve for the country but problem is, I make a comfortable living right now but just comfortable. I make about 38,000 a year. From what I read, i'll be making like half of that by joining the forces but I also don't understand the A B ladder all that much either. I was wondering, what is the paid education salary like? Eventually, I will make more money of course but i'm sure some of you understand it's scary leaving a comfort zone.

It depends on what you're wanting to join so there is no "simple" answer.

NCMs are paid on one scale, Officers depending whether enrolling DEO, ROTP, MOTP, DOTP or SEELM are paid on another set of scales; and even as DEO certain occupations (Pilot, Dental, Medical for example) get a higher pay rate.

NCM Pay Scale: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-ncm-class-c-rates.page
      Beginning pay for NCMs is: $2,985/month ($35,820/year) - this is before deductions

Officer Pay Scale: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-class-c-officer-rates.page
      Beginning pay for ROTP is: $1,667/month ($20,004/year) - this is before deductions - and keep in mind the CAF is also paying Education costs (tuition, books, etc) on top of this.
      Beginning pay for DEO is: $4,083/month ($48,996) - this is before deductions
For the beginning pay for the others it's best to discuss your situation with a Recruiter.

I'm looking to apply in military police, but haven't found any info on paid education for this particular job only that direct entry requires a degree or diploma relating to the job. Like a police technique diploma. Is this a kind of paid education available or do I need to obtain it beforehand.

As mike so kindly pointed out from one of my previous posts, paid education (NCM-STEP) is not available for Military Police. Semi-skilled (meaning you have education already) is the only entry plan for Military Police.  (thanks mike!)

Offline Schwartzie55

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #192 on: May 11, 2018, 18:30:08 »
Hey Buck.

I’m applying to ROTP-AERE this September. I noticed that your May 3 update for Paid Education Intake #’s for AERE shows as 20.
I understand that it would typically vary from year to year but would you have a idea of approximately how many applications are received for ROTP-AERE annually? Just wondering how competitive AERE is considering there are only those 20 openings.

Thanks.

Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #193 on: May 14, 2018, 11:02:25 »
Hey Buck.

I’m applying to ROTP-AERE this September. I noticed that your May 3 update for Paid Education Intake #’s for AERE shows as 20.
I understand that it would typically vary from year to year but would you have a idea of approximately how many applications are received for ROTP-AERE annually? Just wondering how competitive AERE is considering there are only those 20 openings.

Thanks.

It's difficult to track how many applications are received annually as individuals have the option of picking 3 trades to join.  I'm sure there's someone with CFRG HQ that is tracking that and I'm sure there's an analytic within the system that pulls that info; but I don't track that sort of information.

As for competitiveness... right now there's approximately 16,000 active applications for just over 5,000 spots - so the CAF in general is competitive.

Offline dubble

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #194 on: May 24, 2018, 18:18:02 »
Hi everyone,

Following a discussion about ROTP with one of the officers in my unit I was hoping to see if anyone could answer a question before I take it officially to a recruiter. It seems like a fairly non-cookie-cutter situation so finding info online has been difficult.

Situation is as follows: I'm a reserve infantry NCM attending university full time. I have 3 years of study + 1 year of co-op left and after earning my degree I've been considering applying for a CT to the air force as a pilot (I know, how cliché). The officer I was speaking to recommended I apply to ROTP to get the rest of my education paid for and secure that position afterward. Having researched the idea, however, I'm finding that with ROTP you're made an OCdt and employed as such until you finish your degree and complete the relevant training. I would rather stay in my current role during my studies, though, so I'm wondering if that's possible at all. Essentially the goal would be to secure the funding and the job, keep my current job, then transition after graduation. That said, I can see how that would be administratively difficult.

Perhaps UTPNCM is more in-line with what I'm looking for? But from what I've read that programme seems more oriented to giving NCMs a full education as offered by RMC. My other option would be to continue as I have and claim the maximum amount of ILP, which would be fine financially because that's a sweet $8,000 on top of OSAP and my already decent savings and what ever I'll earn working Class A/B, but I'd like to eliminate the risk of applying for a CT later down the road and either not getting it or having it stuck in logistic limbo.

Thanks

Offline sidemount

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #195 on: May 25, 2018, 14:45:02 »
Hi everyone,

Following a discussion about ROTP with one of the officers in my unit I was hoping to see if anyone could answer a question before I take it officially to a recruiter. It seems like a fairly non-cookie-cutter situation so finding info online has been difficult.

Situation is as follows: I'm a reserve infantry NCM attending university full time. I have 3 years of study + 1 year of co-op left and after earning my degree I've been considering applying for a CT to the air force as a pilot (I know, how cliché). The officer I was speaking to recommended I apply to ROTP to get the rest of my education paid for and secure that position afterward. Having researched the idea, however, I'm finding that with ROTP you're made an OCdt and employed as such until you finish your degree and complete the relevant training. I would rather stay in my current role during my studies, though, so I'm wondering if that's possible at all. Essentially the goal would be to secure the funding and the job, keep my current job, then transition after graduation. That said, I can see how that would be administratively difficult.

Perhaps UTPNCM is more in-line with what I'm looking for? But from what I've read that programme seems more oriented to giving NCMs a full education as offered by RMC. My other option would be to continue as I have and claim the maximum amount of ILP, which would be fine financially because that's a sweet $8,000 on top of OSAP and my already decent savings and what ever I'll earn working Class A/B, but I'd like to eliminate the risk of applying for a CT later down the road and either not getting it or having it stuck in logistic limbo.

Thanks

So this may or may not help your decision. The UTPNCM program is only open to Reg Force pers anyway so you wouldn't be able to apply.

If you decided to CT and do the ROTP program, since you are already attending university, it would be very likely that that would be where you stay. In saying that you would be appointed to OCdt but you would keep the pay of your previous NCM rank. You would also be posted to the BTL of closest base to your university. During the summer holidays you would be doing 1 of 2 things....either attending BOMQ or trades training if it fits into your summer. If not then the ULO has to find employment for you for the summer months. If your current bosses want to keep you around then they can very easily send request to the ULO for you to go back and work at your reserve unit.

Yes they do try to employ you in such a way that is related to your trade but that's not always possible and having a spot to work makes the ULO's job very easy to send you there. I'm not saying that is def how it would work, but it is a possibility.
Leadership is solving problems. The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help or concluded you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership. - Colin Powell

Offline dubble

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Re: Paid Education [Merged]
« Reply #196 on: June 03, 2018, 11:08:07 »
Ah so there's pretty well no way I could forego the appointment to OCdt then? I understand the reasoning, it's just a little disappointing as I'll be doing my IJLC this summer and would like to actually apply those skills to my unit for a while before moving forward. I guess I'll probably follow-through with claiming my ILP and see where that takes me. Thanks for the help!