Author Topic: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)  (Read 228606 times)

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #500 on: June 15, 2019, 17:06:46 »
Amazing. We can't get regular sustainment flights of C-17s into Canadian operations because they're constantly broken due to being run hard almost 24/7, but we can afford to give one up to help the Romanians out?  :facepalm:

I think it'd be more like adding a lift or two, but I could be wrong.
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Reply:  "If."

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #501 on: June 15, 2019, 17:28:47 »
Or buy more C17's. The USAF is going to reopen production to meet its squadron expansion.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/airlift-tanker-annual/2018/10/26/could-the-air-force-restart-the-c-17-production-line/

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #502 on: June 15, 2019, 17:50:52 »
Or buy Antonov's AN 178 for a cost of 40 to 70 million each.

https://www.airplaneupdate.com/2019/04/antonov-an-178.html


Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #503 on: June 16, 2019, 08:46:01 »
Or buy Antonov's AN 178 for a cost of 40 to 70 million each.

https://www.airplaneupdate.com/2019/04/antonov-an-178.html

Right in that article it says its main competitor (among others) is the 130J. We need more C-17s, split fleet will never work with the CAF.

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #504 on: June 16, 2019, 18:39:20 »
Or buy more C17's. The USAF is going to reopen production to meet its squadron expansion.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/airlift-tanker-annual/2018/10/26/could-the-air-force-restart-the-c-17-production-line/

one could only hope if the line restarted we could jump in on them and get our selves a few more, say anywhere from 4-8 more, though I am pulling that number out of my butt, any expansion of our transport fleet would be welcomed.
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Offline YZT580

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #505 on: June 16, 2019, 20:56:13 »
Be better to look at replacing the airbuses.  They are all over 30 years old.  Replace them one for one with new A330 MRTT.  Now you have a long range cargo transport, a troop transport and an aerial refuelling aircraft  that isn't a museum piece.  Keep the C17 for outsized loads and missions.  And I am not an airbus fan by the way.  It just that it is accepted and flying while the B767 is still having problems

Offline CBH99

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #506 on: June 16, 2019, 22:47:21 »
Not a fan of Airbus? 
Fortune Favours the Bold...and the Smart.

Wouldn't it be nice to have some Boondock Saints kicking around?

Offline CBH99

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #507 on: June 16, 2019, 22:48:49 »
Sorry first time posting using my phone.  Question - have we had any trouble with the Airbus fleet??    I agree replacing 1 for 1 with the A330 MRTT would be a simple & logical choice.  Boeing has some serious issues these days.
Fortune Favours the Bold...and the Smart.

Wouldn't it be nice to have some Boondock Saints kicking around?

Offline YZT580

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #508 on: June 17, 2019, 08:12:13 »
experiences only as a pax.  Always look like the historical Nissan cars (sorta cheap). 

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #509 on: June 27, 2019, 11:00:24 »
South African defence media says Canada's also still helping the French w/Op BARKHANE …
Quote
Half of all freight and personnel transported for the French-led Operation Barkhane in the Sahel is carried out by allied and European countries, France has revealed.

The French defence ministry on 25 June said its allies have since 2019 been responsible for 50% of freight and personnel transport for Barkhane forces, which are fighting armed terrorist groups operating in the Sahel region.

Spain has contributed 15% through the Mamba and Marfil missions from Gabon and Senegal. The logistical support provided by the British Chinook helicopters within the area of operation also weighs in with more than 15%. The United States (with almost 10%) and Germany (over 6%) are also strongly committed to Barkhane, as are Canada and Belgium, the French defence ministry said.

Since 1 January 2019 the United States and Canada have transported 315 tonnes and 43 tonnes respectively of freight, as part of the strategic routes linking France to the Sahel. In comparison, the French Air Force transported 676 tonnes of material over the same period ...

No such updates @ CAF's Op FREQUENCE page, although an official info-machine Tweet from mid-December 2018 says. "We sometimes provide airlift transportation for the French military to and from the Sahel region of Africa on #OpFREQUENCE. Recently, the CC-177 Globemaster transported 88,000 lbs of cargo over 26.4 hours …" - another mid-Dec 2018 Tweet here.

Attached also find French MoD update (in French) the story appears to be based on.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #510 on: July 11, 2019, 05:37:01 »
Mali crisis worsens as hundreds of thousands flee militia attacks

More than 200,000 people have been displaced since start of 2019 and about 600 killed

The UN’s peacekeeping mission in Mali has just had its mandate renewed, and although it pledges to protect civilians, researchers say in practice it does not allow its troops to pre-emptively disarm communities.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/11/mali-crisis-worsens-as-hundreds-of-thousands-flee-militia-attacks
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #511 on: July 22, 2019, 19:22:35 »
UK chipping in ...
Quote
In recognition of the increasing instability in the Sahel region, the UK Government has authorised a large-scale British peacekeeping deployment to Eastern Mali. Based in Gao, 250 personnel will deploy in response to a UN requirement and will address a key capability gap for the UN Mission.

Initially deploying for three years as part of a 12,500 strong international force, the UK contribution will assist the UN mission as it seeks to deliver long-term and sustainable peace in Mali.

UK personnel will operate alongside troops from more than 30 countries, and will deliver a long-range reconnaissance capability, providing greater awareness of possible threats and contributing to the protection of civilians.

By working to stabilise fragile states and tackling the root causes of conflict, the UK is preventing conflict spilling over to neighbouring states. This deployment will help address the increasing instability in the region, its impact along the West African coast and the threat to Southern Europe ...
More from the UK MoD info-machine @ link
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #512 on: July 22, 2019, 19:29:50 »
UK chipping in ...More from the UK MoD info-machine @ link

'Large Scale' = 250 troops?   :rofl:

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #513 on: July 23, 2019, 10:31:26 »
Note that RAF Chinooks are also working from Mali with French counter-terrorism Op Barkhane:

Quote
UK extends helicopter deployment to France-led Operation Barkhane in the Sahel

The British military deployment to the France-led Operation Barkhane in the Sahel region of Africa will be extended, outgoing U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May said on Monday, July 8.

In her last speech on U.K. defense at the Permanent Joint Headquarters and NATO’s maritime headquarters in Northwood, northwest London, May noted that “RAF Chinooks from 18(B) squadron have been supporting French operations in Mali for some time.”

“The mission-critical airlift capacity they provide allows French ground troops to conduct anti-terror operations that make the Sahel more stable and, ultimately, make both our nations safer,” May said.

“I am pleased to announce that the operation will be extended, so this vital partnership can continue,” May said, without specifying the length of the extension.

Update The U.K. Ministry of Defence in a later release said the extension will be “a minimum of six months.”

Defence Secretary Penny Mordaunt said that increasing instability across the Sahel poses “a real threat to European security.”

“It is right that we extend our commitment to the counter-terror operation in Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger,” Mordaunt said. “By providing essential support to our French partners our Armed Forces are helping to build stability and deny terrorists a haven from which to plan attacks.”

Three U.K. Royal Air Force Chinook heavy lift helicopters are based in Gao in eastern Mali, and have supported Operation Barkhane since becoming operational last August.

Most recently, RAF Chinooks resupplied French and partner troops during Operation Aconit, which targeted Islamic State militants in Mali and Niger between between June 7 and 19 [emphasis added]...

The French mission evolved in August 2014 into the current 4,500-strong Operation Barkhane, which has a mandate for counter-terrorism operations across the Sahel.

In addition to the RAF Chinooks, 50 Estonian soldiers are deployed in Gao in a force-protection capacity.

In February, the Danish government said that it plans to send two transport helicopters to support Operation Barkhane. The government’s plans must be approved by parliament, and the deployment would see around 70 soldiers deployed for a one-year period starting at the end of 2019
[emphasis added].

Troops deployed to Barkhane work alongside other international operations, including the roughly 14,000-strong MINUSMA mission in Mali, and the regional G5 Sahel joint counter-terrorism force that aims to train and deploy up to 5,000 personnel from the five members – Burkina Faso, Chad, Mali, Mauritania and Niger.


Three RAF Chinook helicopters beside their temporary hangers in Gao, Mali. Image: @DefenceHQ/Twitter
https://thedefensepost.com/2019/07/08/uk-raf-sahel-barkhane-deployment-extended/

Allies and others see how long Justin Trudeau's gov't took to commit to peacekeeping in Mali, how clearly they wanted to accept the least risk possible, and how eager they are to bug out even when UN has pleaded for a few more months; then when allies and others see what other are doing in MINUSMA, and to help French with Barkhane, they can only conclude that Canada is no longer a serious actor for many international security matters. All just for show. Fie.

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Offline YZT580

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #514 on: July 23, 2019, 13:48:16 »
what more can you expect from a dance teacher.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #515 on: July 23, 2019, 14:19:28 »
what more can you expect from a dance teacher.

I'm sure this isn't purely the PM's call - some advisors would have had to advise him either way.  I would be very surprised if he just woke up one day and said "we aren't extending the Mali operation".
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline YZT580

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #516 on: July 23, 2019, 17:22:19 »
have any units been assigned to a rapid deployment group as promised?  Is there a C130 working with the UN in Africa as promised?  It took almost 3 years for them to respond to the Mali issue in the first place and then it was a pretty weak show.  Much needed but it sure wouldn't have hurt to extend through to October.  Trudeau has the same respect for the military that his father had and shows it. 

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #517 on: July 23, 2019, 19:53:35 »
I'm sure this isn't purely the PM's call - some advisors would have had to advise him either way.  I would be very surprised if he just woke up one day and said "we aren't extending the Mali operation".

Quite right, Dimsum.

But there have always been two faction in the Liberal party - at least since the days of Trudeau the First: The "let's unilaterally disarm because if we just extend a hand of friendship to all regimes (even the worst), it'll all work out peacefully in the end" (a faction that included Trudeau senior, and now junior and his advisers, and Lloyd Axworthy), and then the "realpolitic" ones who followed the Pearson view (speak softly - but have strong military back-up)", which included the two Paul Martin's.

So he is getting advice from the first one, unfortunately.

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #518 on: July 24, 2019, 08:26:28 »
I'm sure this isn't purely the PM's call - some advisors would have had to advise him either way.
In reality, it was purely the PM's call.   Giving advice is easy for those who don't have to actually make the decisions.


[And those giving advice can be thrown under the bus, then come back all squeaky clean a few months later to run the re-election campaign once the citizens' attention span was waned.... but that's a separate issue  :not-again: ]
It should now be obvious that running a country is NOT an entry-level job.  [Yes, it applies to both sides of our border]

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #519 on: July 25, 2019, 21:51:39 »
In reality, it was purely the PM's call.   Giving advice is easy for those who don't have to actually make the decisions.


[And those giving advice can be thrown under the bus, then come back all squeaky clean a few months later to run the re-election campaign once the citizens' attention span was waned.... but that's a separate issue  :not-again: ]

Good post and I quite agree.
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Offline thegamerdad02

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #520 on: July 26, 2019, 19:36:29 »
god bless our military ;D ;D

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #521 on: July 26, 2019, 19:55:18 »
[And those giving advice can be thrown under the bus, then come back all squeaky clean a few months later to run the re-election campaign once the citizens' attention span was waned.... but that's a separate issue  :not-again: ]
At least those on the political side giving advice, anyway ...
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #522 on: July 27, 2019, 06:42:49 »
I for one don't care that we aren't renewing the Mali Mission as I am of the opinion that UN Operations are a colossal waste of time, money and people. 

Now if the Government of Canada were contributing personnel to French anti-terror operations in the Sahel, I would support that.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #523 on: July 27, 2019, 10:48:45 »
Humphrey Bogart: There is zero chance of Justin Trudeau's gov't contributing troops or helos (the UK has done the latter https://thedefensepost.com/2019/07/08/uk-raf-sahel-barkhane-deployment-extended/ ) tp France's Op Barkhane--after all we don't do counter-terrorism these days, don't you now? See this cringe-worthy statement in March by the commander of Op PRESENCE:

Quote
Canadian peacekeepers evacuated injured French counter-terror troops in Mali

Canadian peacekeepers were called upon to evacuate several wounded French soldiers in Mali earlier this month after their patrol was ambushed while hunting for militants along the border with Niger.

The previously unreported incident marks the first time the Canadians have been asked to help non-United Nations forces in Mali, where the French have been conducting counter-insurgency operations since 2014...

 In an interview with The Canadian Press, the commander of Canada's task force in Mali said the UN and France have agreed to help each other in extreme circumstances and that his peacekeepers did their jobs by helping save lives.

"I wouldn't want people to presume or assume that we're supporting counter-terrorism efforts [emphasis added]," said Col. Travis Morehen. "But it's really at this point about saving allied lives."..
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/canadian-peacekeepers-evacuated-injured-french-counter-terror-troops-in-mali-1.4351905

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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Op PRESENCE/Mali (Cdn mission/s, sitreps, etc. - merged)
« Reply #524 on: July 27, 2019, 15:28:30 »
Humphrey Bogart: There is zero chance of Justin Trudeau's gov't contributing troops or helos (the UK has done the latter https://thedefensepost.com/2019/07/08/uk-raf-sahel-barkhane-deployment-extended/ ) tp France's Op Barkhane--after all we don't do counter-terrorism these days, don't you now? See this cringe-worthy statement in March by the commander of Op PRESENCE:

Mark
Ottawa

How dare we save those filthy counter-terrorists lives!