Author Topic: Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )  (Read 758599 times)

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2008, 22:25:00 »
To start on a platoon - everyone is of course expected to pass at LEAST the minimum by the end of course...or off to RFT they go

:edit: I'm off to RFT tomorrow to get back into platoon shape after my lovely PAT experiance....as is now mandatory after any prolonged PAT visit.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2008, 22:26:49 »
Again I'll say that this is pathetic.
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2008, 22:29:40 »
I'm not disagreeing, but as I understand it there was a time when the only PT test was at the end of the course and if you failed you were out....I kinda like that idea to be honest...

When I got here you could fail outright (as in get 0) on any one strength portion and you were still good to go until the end of the course...how is this any worse then that?
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2008, 22:34:23 »
I'm not disagreeing, but as I understand it there was a time when the only PT test was at the end of the course and if you failed you were out....I kinda like that idea to be honest...

And when were you told that was?  And what would be the GD point to put someone thru all that training and pay them to have them fail a PT test at the end??   ::)

Quote
When I got here you could fail outright (as in get 0) on any one strength portion and you were still good to go until the end of the course...how is this any worse then that?

I am well aware of the PT testing process before this, I was an instructor at CFLRS before my current posting.  This is alittle better but still pathetic and still embarassing.  Full stop.

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2008, 22:35:15 »
And when were you told that was?  And what would be the GD point to put someone thru all that training and pay them to have them fail a PT test at the end??   ::)

I am well aware of the PT testing process before this, I was an instructor at CFLRS before my current posting.  This is alittle better but still pathetic and still embarassing.  Full stop.



in the 70s or 80s according to one of the ladies here who was in then...

The idea being no matter how you showed up your instructors andthe PERI staff would run you until you could pass the test
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2008, 22:42:17 »
2 pushups for females /  4 or 5 for males

Please, please, please, tell this old has-been that it isn't so..............I'm kinda hoping that will at least be my minimum nursing home entrance test.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2008, 23:00:25 »
I thought it would be worthy to do a comparison of our recruit fitness testing to, in this example, the US Air Force.  Thats right...not their Army or Marines...the Air Force.

From this website:

Getting in Shape
The final fitness test is done during the 4th week of training. That's not much time to get into shape (even though you'll be working out six days per week), so the Air Force recommends that recruits be able to meet the following minimum standards before reporting to basic training (Note: This isn't mandatory, but it'll make you life much easier):

Males

2 mile run: 19:16
1.5 mile run: 13:45
Push-Ups: 34
Sit-Ups: 38

Females

2 mile run: 22:43
1.5 mile run: 16:01
Push-Ups: 16
Sit-Ups: 38

Remember, the above standards are the MINIMUM recommended for when you FIRST ARRIVE at basic training. They are not the graduation standards (which are much more restrictive). Graduation standards can be found in Part 4 of this article.


And some more info on the US Air Force Recruit training PT standards, from here.

Graduation Requirements
The final fitness test is conducted at the end of the 4th WOT/beginning of the 5th WOT (prior to "Warrior Week"). To pass, recruits must meet the following MINIMUM physical fitness standards:

Males:

Two Mile Run - 16:45
1.5 mile Run - 11:57
Sit-Ups - 50 (in 2 minutes)
Push-Ups - 45 (in 2 minutes)

Females:

Two Mile Run - 19:45
1.5 Mile Run - 13:56
Sit-Ups - 50 (in 2 minutes)
Push-Ups - 27 (in 2 minutes)

Recruits who fail to meet the above standards can expect to be recycled for a minimum period of two weeks.


Warhawk Physical Fitness Award
Recruits who make the following MINIMUM standards qualify for the "Warhawk" Award:

Males:

Two Mile Run - 13:30
1.5 mile Run - 08:08
Sit-Ups - 80 (in 2 minutes)
Push-Ups - 75 (in 2 minutes)
Pull-Ups - 10

Females:

Two Mile Run - 15:00
1.5 Mile Run - 10:55
Sit-Ups - 75 (in 2 minutes)
Push-Ups - 40 (in 2 minutes)
Pull-Ups - 5

Those who qualify for "Warhawk" receive a special T-shirt, a recognition certificate, and receive an extra town pass on graduation weekend (that means they get to go off-base on the Sunday following graduation, as well as the normal Saturday).


Honor Graduate
While Physical Fitness is only one small part of the Honor Graduate requirements, a recruit must meet the following MINIMUM physical fitness standards to even be considered for the honor:

Males:

Two Mile Run - 15:15
1.5 mile Run - 8:55
Sit-Ups - 70 (in 2 minutes)
Push-Ups - 62 (in 2 minutes)
Pull-Ups - 2

Females:

Two Mile Run - 16:00
1.5 Mile Run - 11:33
Sit-Ups - 60 (in 2 minutes)
Push-Ups - 37 (in 2 minutes)
Pull-Ups - 6



« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 23:07:32 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline greyman_11

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2008, 23:08:14 »
New rule change...now it's 2 pushups for females to remain on a platoon and 4 or 5 for males to remain on a platoon

*twitch* I love my job :D

2 pushups for females and 4 or 5 for males???? WTF. My 80 year old grandmother could probably punch out more than 2 pushups. That is sad.
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2008, 23:14:11 »

Males

2 mile run: 19:16
1.5 mile run: 13:45
Push-Ups: 34
Sit-Ups: 38

Females

2 mile run: 22:43
1.5 mile run: 16:01
Push-Ups: 16
Sit-Ups: 38

Remember, the above standards are the MINIMUM recommended for when you FIRST ARRIVE at basic training. They are not the graduation standards (which are much more restrictive).

Wow...big difference. Perhaps it's due to the fact that the U.S. has a much (much) larger population to draw from, and perhaps does not face the recruiting challenges of its Northern neighbour. Just a guess.

Not that I am advocating lax standards.  :P  Far from it.

I do think the incentives for "Warhawks" is a nice touch. The CF might want to think about an incentive/reward program as well.
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2008, 23:17:33 »
and perhaps does not face the recruiting challenges of its Northern neighbour. Just a guess.


I would say that you have guessed wrong. From what i have seen teaching AIT down in the US, they face a recruiting problem of far greater proportion than we do. Yes they have a larger population to draw from but they also maintain a very large force. I do not know , however how they compare proportinately. With the requirements of the war in Iraq ( with all its problems back home), the war in Afghanistan, the requirement for large forces in Korea and in other parts of the world, the need for soldiers in, IMHO, much greater. Looks to me like they have decided that operational effectiveness comes ahead of everything else.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 23:24:13 by CDN Aviator »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2008, 23:18:29 »
The stuff I posted was for Enlisted recruits.  Maybe the stuff for their Officers is the same, or more stringent.

Again...that is their Air Force.  NOT the Army or Marines.

This site also seems to have lots of info:

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-fitness-requirements/army-basic-training-pft
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Offline Celticgirl

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2008, 23:25:31 »
I would say that you have guessed wrong. From what i have seen teaching AIT down in the US, they face a recruiting problem of far greater proportion than we do. Yes they have a larger population to draw from but they also maintain a very large force. I do not know , however how they compare proportinately.

US military recruiting boosted by rise in bonuses
The Associated PressPublished: October 3, 2008

 
WASHINGTON: After seven years at war, the U.S. military paid recruits hundreds of millions of dollars over the past year as they answered the call to duty.

According to data obtained by The Associated Press, the Army and Marine Corps doled out nearly $640 million in the fiscal year that ended Tuesday to entice recruits to join up.

The two services continue to bear the brunt of the U.S.-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but recruits were buoyed by incentives that can be as high as $40,000 each. All told, the enlistment incentives coupled with the promise of thousands more for education, increased the costs of Army and Marine bonuses by 25 percent over last year's totals, The Associated Press has learned.

The money — particularly in these shaky economic times — has proved to be a strong recruiting tool, even as the U.S. death toll in Iraq surpasses 4,100 and violence in Afghanistan escalates.

As a result, the Army, Marines, Navy and Air Force all met their recruiting goals for the year. The Air Force did not provide bonus data.

Article Link

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2008, 23:30:17 »
Exactly..........look at what they had to do to meet their targets. Also ook at the context under which they were met ( the economy).

When the economy was rolling high, do you think that what is said in the article was true ?











Offline Celticgirl

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2008, 23:31:48 »
Exactly..........look at what they had to do to meet their targets. Also ook at the context under which they were met ( the economy).

When the economy was rolling high, do you think that what is said in the article was true ?

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2008, 14:02:36 »
Just so people's head's don't explode, the minimum standard for continued employment in the CF hasn't changed, but the physical abilities of many of the recruits has.  And not for the better...

To stay on course following the first fitness test, the minimums for push-ups is 2 and 4 for women and men respectively.  That is so there is an indication of "some" baseline upper body strength to work with during the course so that it is feasible that the MPFS scores of 9 and 19 are acheivable at either week 6 and/or week 13.  This is an additional standard imposed over and above the requirement to pass the VO2 Max and a min of two of three strength tests just to stay on course.  Anyone not meeting that standard (or without a damn good story presented by their platoon staff) is headed for RFT.

There is also a new approach to PT on the platoons that is coming and it looks like it will be very successful, so stay tuned.

All that said, the MPFS is the only standard across the CF, and is the pass mark for a Performance Objective on the BMQ course.  If it is not acheived, even after 13 weeks of training, then the BMQ course has not been completed and people will be loaded on RFT while the rest of their platoon stands Grad Parade.  The only exceptions to this I've seen have gone out the green doors with extra paperwork in their files and only under very specific circumstances.

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2008, 17:05:09 »
Just so people's head's don't explode, the minimum standard for continued employment in the CF hasn't changed, but the physical abilities of many of the recruits has.  And not for the better...

What?  I don't recall anyone misreading this thread thinking it applied to the CF.   ???

Quote
To stay on course following the first fitness test, the minimums for push-ups is 2 and 4 for women and men respectively.  That is so there is an indication of "some" baseline upper body strength to work with during the course so that it is feasible that the MPFS scores of 9 and 19 are acheivable at either week 6 and/or week 13.  This is an additional standard imposed over and above the requirement to pass the VO2 Max and a min of two of three strength tests just to stay on course.  Anyone not meeting that standard (or without a damn good story presented by their platoon staff) is headed for RFT.

2 pushups for females and 4 pushups for males is hardly an *additional standard*.  God our allies must be laughing their a**es off at this pathetic fitness level we allow and accomodate.  Atleast that was added though, as embarassing as it is.

The EXPRES test if not the only fitness test used in the CF, by the way.
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2008, 20:33:10 »
On your first point, the line was rhetorical, I thought that was clear, my bad.

Secondly, I can't argue the 2 and 4 is not much of a standard, but when 2 of 3 strength tests passed meant that a candidate could pass handgrip and sit-ups and fail with 0 push-ups and still begin training, it's an improvement.

As for the CF Expres not being the only standard in the CF, you are correct, but missed the point I was trying to make.  The CF Expres is the only recognized, and standardized test upon which we can judge someone's phyical fitness across all elements.  They (CMP) are working toward developing more challenging standards for each of the elements, but until then, the Expres is what we have.

Offline xxmixkexx

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2009, 15:32:12 »
Wait so if I could only do 5 push ups I would still be able to do BMQ?  I can get my numbers fine, I made damn sure of that.  That is crazy.

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2009, 16:17:07 »
Wait so if I could only do 5 push ups I would still be able to do BMQ?  I can get my numbers fine, I made damn sure of that.  That is crazy.

No the requirements to continue on Platoon are still the same 19 pushups for males, level 6 on the express test, 30 situps and the handgrip. What has changed is that there is now a threshold to meet to be sent to WFT. If you do not meet 4 pushups and level 3.5 on the express then you are immediately released. If you pass the threshold but do not meet the platoon requirement you are sent to WFT
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Offline xxmixkexx

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2009, 07:27:34 »
O ok, thanks for clearing that up.

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2009, 07:59:07 »
No the requirements to continue on Platoon are still the same 19 pushups for males, level 6 on the express test, 30 situps and the handgrip.

Depending on age, of course.
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2009, 11:43:53 »
Depending on age, of course.

sorry yes, should have specified that I was listing the requirements for males under 35.

For anyone wishing to be clarified on the new PT standards they have no posted them on the recruiting website.

http://www.forces.ca/media/_PDF/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Page 10

remember these are for RegF. It does look like they have lowered situps for males under 35 to 19 though. Also the WFT standards are only for those under 35.
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2009, 15:20:34 »
ah good, good information.

So here is a question. I read through that online form, and see that although chinups are included, they are not part of your official test. So for the 'first week minimum standards' you are required to pass to continue, should you fail those, are you still put into WFT? Or are they there for more of a "judge" to see how we will progress?

As well I have heard (different answers from EVERY source I ask) about push up posture.  Yes the diagram is right on the form, but when we are pushing up and down must your elbows actually stay pointed straight backwards? They naturally point outwards for me. I did try to do them with my elbows tight against my sides and had much difficulty. I have no problem at all doing pushups with my elbows naturally where they sit. So question...is that unnatural way to do them what they will make us do?
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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2009, 16:54:52 »
...and see that although chinups are included, they are not part of your official test.


From my understanding, talking to the guys at CFRC Calgary, the chinups are not used for official testing because everyone is a different weight and build, but they are suggested ("strongly suggested" as the recruiter said) to help you prepare for the confidence course in training. Monkey bars, netting climbs, rope ladder climbs, all stuff that could require you to "pull up" with your upper body. So it's just there to get you at least in the right direction :P (from what I understand from the CFRC, I may be totally off base, it's just what the Sgt there told me  :warstory: )

Offline X-mo-1979

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Re: For those joining - New PT test rules at CFLRS
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2009, 18:17:41 »
I'm proud to say my cousin a overweight housewife of 25 yrs after raising three kids following her husbands career decided she was going to join the airforce.After deciding she was going to join she looked at the minimum requirements and guess what she did?

TRAINED!!
She lost 70 lbs and is now down to a very lean woman who can meet the basic requirements.Requirements for men!Imagine that!

My question is WHO decided that a man should be able to do X number of sit ups/push ups/beep?When was that decided?And who would you have to contact to try to change this.

In my opinion:(I love a free country)

-Wasting money to pay recruits who cannot be bothered to meet the min req can be spent elsewhere.I'm sure we can spend the huge amount of money elsewhere.(I'm guessing it's a lot of money.training room and board and paychecks plus staff etc.)

-Strain on our training system that could use the rooms taken up by people who cannot meet the standards to house soldiers who are ready.

-Staff having to work even longer hours doing everything from admin to class's for soldiers who cannot take the class's with their original courses.

I know there will be rebuttals about "I am a success story".

But why do you feel required to receive pay and a free life while providing the system with a strain?Why could you NOT do it on your own as a civilian?

I look at it this way.
I can look on jobbank.ca and see a job for a lets say physiotherapist.Awesome pay!But looking at the bottom I realize I do not meet the minimum requirement of having 7 years of schooling.So do they take me in pay for my education; while paying me as a physiotherapist on top of that?Of course not!Sounds silly right?

Sort of like the CF and meeting minimum requirements isn't it?


-