Author Topic: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )  (Read 99322 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CdnEWO

  • Guest
  • *
  • 20
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2
  • Herc Nav / Jet EWO
Re: ACSO
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2011, 20:15:30 »
Hi, nickanick.  I think I can help you out.

I'm an ACSO...or as I prefer, nav (I was trained as a nav, so that's what I call myself) with 13 years in.  I spent six years as a Herc nav then specialised as an EWO to fly backseat on the Alpha Jet (EWO is an ACSO specialty, like transport/LRP/MH/SAR, if you're wondering), which I did for four years.

When I went through CFANS, the course was 9 months on paper but took about a year to complete.  Flight scheduling, rewrites, lecturer availability etc all cause delays.  I started in August and got my wings in July.  I heard that the course will be shortened, like bouncer said, as they're removing some things from the basic course and moving them to the appropriate OTU courses.

It's difficult to directly compare the ACSO basic course to the pilot course(s).  Neither training path is easy, they're just different.  The ACSO basic course deals with a lot of the same basic material, we just don't study as much on aerodynamics and aircraft handling and study more mission planning & direction, and the only stick time is during the 2 week introductory phase in Portage - if they still do that.  Though to expand on what bouncer said, some ACSOs are expected to do some piloting once qualified on their aircraft (i.e. EWOs, as the jet has only two seats and no autopilot).

Failure rate is pretty high in both.  Selection just gets you in the door because you've shown the aptitude.  Your training is where you prove yourself.  When I was at CFANS, we had classes of eight, and five graduated on average.  I understand the percentages are similar for pilot, but I could be wrong.

From there you go to your OTU course, but that's a story for another thread.

As far as getting into the trade goes, it depends on a number of factors.  How many slots there are depends on actual manning versus projected versus minimum required.  From there, they allocate some to each entry programme based on a plan that I won't pretend to understand.  I entered as a DEO since I already had my degree.  When I applied, the recruiters told me it looked good, but advised me that more new applicants were being processed all the time, so if I didn't get called within about a year then it may not happen.  I got offered a spot about three months after finishing ACS, so I guess I did okay.

To give you perspective, we have about 500-600 ACSOs according to the last career manager brief.  I don't remember how many we lose each year, but I think guys typically stay in for a 20-to-25-year stint, so do the math and that'll give you a rough indication of how many enter.  Some leave after obligatory service, some stay in for the full 35 years, some switch trades, but I'd say 20ish years is a good average.

Hope this helps.  If anyone has better info, feel free to chime in.

Cheers
EW - the power to make others say, "What the #%$@!!!"

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 149,925
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,375
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: ACSO
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2011, 02:30:30 »
Echo what CdnEWO said, but I'll add that ACSO courses are international, ie. not all students in your course are Canadian.  That can possibly prolong your wait for 1 CFFTS. 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline prima6

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 67
Re: ACSO
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2011, 21:55:23 »
Echo what CdnEWO said, but I'll add that ACSO courses are international, ie. not all students in your course are Canadian.  That can possibly prolong your wait for 1 CFFTS.

That won't prolong the wait.  International students are only taken when there is excess training capacity.  If we need ACSOs there won't be international students loaded on the course.  AFAIK, the next ACSO course has the last international student for the foreseeable future, as we are getting to the point where we are unable to generate the required number of ACSOs at the school.  Our next graduating course has a student starting an OTU about 2 weeks after their grad, an OTU that has up until now had a substantial wait period.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 21:59:27 by prima6 »

Offline CdnEWO

  • Guest
  • *
  • 20
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2
  • Herc Nav / Jet EWO
Re: ACSO
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2011, 09:29:19 »
Glad to hear that OTU waits have gone down.  At the time I graduated I did really well, started the Herc OTU less than two months after grad.  That was pretty fast at the time.  Some of my contemporaries waited nearly a year...and I hear that's been pretty common lately.
EW - the power to make others say, "What the #%$@!!!"

Offline nickanick

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,655
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 76
Re: ACSO
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2011, 19:33:27 »
Thanks so much for the replies guys. You gave me lots of insights about the process of becoming an ASCO.
A little off track question.
What kind of positions are eligible to work on broad as an aircrew?
Because I would like to consider those as backup plans.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 149,925
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,375
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: ACSO
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2011, 19:39:06 »
Thanks so much for the replies guys. You gave me lots of insights about the process of becoming an ASCO.
A little off track question.
What kind of positions are eligible to work on broad as an aircrew?
Because I would like to consider those as backup plans.

Do you mean other aircrew trades onboard?  If so, then Pilot (obviously) and AESOP right off the street.  As for transfer trades, depending on the type of aircraft there could be SAR TECH, Flight Engineer, Loadmaster, Flight Steward...
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline nickanick

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,655
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 76
Re: ACSO
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2011, 21:41:54 »
Do you mean other aircrew trades onboard?  If so, then Pilot (obviously) and AESOP right off the street.  As for transfer trades, depending on the type of aircraft there could be SAR TECH, Flight Engineer, Loadmaster, Flight Steward...

I thought asco would work on board as well.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 149,925
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,375
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: ACSO
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2011, 00:24:06 »
I thought asco would work on board as well.

Yes they do.  When you said that you wanted to consider backup trades, I thought you meant "trades other than ACSO."   
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline nickanick

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,655
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 76
Re: ACSO
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2011, 12:19:46 »
Yes they do.  When you said that you wanted to consider backup trades, I thought you meant "trades other than ACSO."   

Oops. Sorry, my mistakes. Thanks!!

I heard AESOp is only for CT or OT from my recruiter,
I wonder if I can do a CT from Artil res to AESOp reg.

Any AESOp here can share some of their daily routine?

Offline Griffon

  • Member
  • ****
  • 6,315
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 159
Re: ACSO
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2011, 13:57:54 »
I would ask the recruiter to look at AES Op again.  I am pretty sure they opened it up to regular recruitment last year.  They may have changed it back to OT only, but I haven't seen anything that would make me think that.
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: ACSO
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2011, 18:04:40 »
  They may have changed it back to OT only, but I haven't seen anything that would make me think that.

We have not changed it back, that i know of but that being said, we are full.

Offline SeaKingTacco

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 129,615
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,933
  • Door Gunnery- The Sport of Kings!
Re: ACSO
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2011, 21:28:54 »
AESOp is a trade normally  open to both Direct Entry and Component Transfer/Remuster candidates.

The problem is, as Cdn Aviator has pointed out, the trade is full (or more precisely, the training pipeline is full).  Therefore, for now, no Direct Entry candidates.

Offline Ditch

  • Established 1998
  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 26,992
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,367
  • I routinely step in it, but like conflict...
Re: ACSO
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2011, 22:20:18 »
I heard that the AESOP trade and Flight Attendant were merging into one.  That might explain why DEO is closed.
Per Ardua Ad Astra

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: ACSO
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2011, 02:37:50 »
I heard that the AESOP trade and Flight Attendant were merging into one.


I also heard that you volunteered to kiss my ***.

Offline nickanick

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,655
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 76
Re: ACSO
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2011, 02:55:35 »
Thanks for all the comments guys!

However since I wont be CT till at least 2012-2013, I hope by than the trade will open up  :P
But in the mean time, I really want to equip myself.
What kinda of degree, certification or job experience would put me on to the "top" merit list or waiting list?
For both ACSO and AESOp.
Or just a better chance to get in.

I did research about those jobs from official site,
so I'm hoping for answers that will be more specific.

Thanks again guys!!


thx for the correction!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 03:08:08 by nickanick »

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 149,925
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,375
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: ACSO
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2011, 03:00:41 »
Thanks for all the comments guys!

However since I wont be CT till at least 2012-2013, I hope by than the trade will open up  :P
But in the mean time, I really want to equip myself.
What kinda of degree, certification or job experience would put me on to the "top" merit list or waiting list?
For both ASCO and AESOp.
Or just a better chance to get in.

I did research about those jobs from official site,
so I'm hoping for answers that will be more specific.

Thanks again guys!!

Nothing specific for ACSO that I can think of; people have had all sorts of degrees/certifications and have done just fine. 

As an aside, it's ACSO (Air Combat Systems Officer), not ASCO. 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Ditch

  • Established 1998
  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 26,992
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,367
  • I routinely step in it, but like conflict...
Re: ACSO
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2011, 12:54:44 »
I also heard that you volunteered to kiss my ***.

No no. You must have me confused with being a MAG crew member. In the AMAG community we have no need for such greetings.  :-)
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline KRJB

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,670
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 85
Re: ACSO
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2011, 23:30:36 »
Applied for ACSO. Should be hearing about offers in the next week or so. Fingers crossed. I have heard though that ACSO is still wide open after the first selection. So I'm feeling good. :)

Offline word

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,260
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 56
ACSO Testing Question.
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2011, 13:47:42 »
I am looking at ACSO as my first choice right now (I will be applying for DEO next year april when I finish my degree) and I was wondering what to expect on the written tests. I heard it's very math based and that the second part is info on ACSO overall (information on the ACSO trade indepth) that you should know before hand (zero test prep). If anyone here can shed light on the ACSO tests (if you've taken them) that'd be great.

I know there are other topics on this subject but most of them were 200 days or more old (without much information).

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 185,370
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,389
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: ACSO Testing Question.
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2011, 14:02:04 »
...If anyone here can shed light on the ACSO tests (if you've taken them) that'd be great.

I know there are other topics on this subject but most of them were 200 days or more old (without much information).

There's a reason that there is little detail regrading the test...that's because those who took the test are following the direction that they were given to not disclose information regarding the test.

It is likely that the only information you would get from them is that it is rather challenging.  Talk with the Recruiting Centre to get as much information about the test as you can.

Regards
G2G

Offline word

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,260
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 56
Re: ACSO Testing Question.
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2011, 14:03:30 »
Yeah, of course I am not looking for some detailed info. It's great that I talked to RC because at least I also now know to research the trade and terms relating to it (that may be on the test).

Offline KRJB

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,670
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 85
Re: ACSO Testing Question.
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2011, 20:10:14 »
Study components of Grade 10-11 Math. The CAPSS book that they give you, study it. A handful of things in there do in fact help you. This is what my recruiter told me before I took the test and it did help. Otherwise, like what was posted above, we are not in a position to disclose any details about the exam itself. Good Luck. It is a 3 hour test but when they let you know that you passed it is such a great feeling!

Offline word

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,260
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 56
Re: ACSO
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2011, 23:20:12 »
AESOp is a trade normally  open to both Direct Entry and Component Transfer/Remuster candidates.

The problem is, as Cdn Aviator has pointed out, the trade is full (or more precisely, the training pipeline is full).  Therefore, for now, no Direct Entry candidates.

I am going to be taking the ACSO aptitude test in 2012 (when I graduate), hopefully there's some spots for DEO then.

Offline anjp

  • Member
  • Guest
  • *
  • 240
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11
Re: ACSO Testing Question.
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2011, 15:44:37 »
I did the ACSO testing about 14 months ago.  Don't worry, don't panic, don't psych yourself up over it.  Just read the guide and review high school math.  My only regret is that I never went back and reviewed my highschool math.

Offline word

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,260
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 56
Re: ACSO Testing Question.
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2011, 01:41:00 »
Thanks anjp. What guide are you talking about?