Author Topic: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ  (Read 316836 times)

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Online Good2Golf

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1150 on: August 30, 2018, 23:02:19 »
Just a minor correction, G2G: It's T-AKE, not T-KAE.  ;D

The "T-" indicates that the ship is operated by the Military Sealift Command (hence, by civilians), while the AKE is the ship's type designator, indicating a "advanced dry cargo ship" as the type.

OGBD, I plead autocorrect by some crappy DJ, dang’it! ;D

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1151 on: August 30, 2018, 23:07:01 »
At least it didn't come out as TKO then.  ;)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 23:15:05 by Oldgateboatdriver »

Online MarkOttawa

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1152 on: September 18, 2018, 15:29:06 »
See the timelines for the Royal Navy's two types (Type 31e smaller) of new frigates:

1) Type 26:

Why will the Royal Navy not have its first Type 26 frigate operational until 2027 [when will first CSC be ready?]

Defence Procurement Minister, Guto Bebb stated in Parliament on 23rd April that the first Type 26 frigate, HMS Glasgow is due to be accepted from the builders in the summer of 2025. Eighteen months of further trials and training should see her become operational in 2027. Here we ask why the navy must tolerate such a leisurely eight-year construction schedule.

The Type 26 promises to be a superb submarine hunter and, if adequate investment is made in equipping them with the right weapon fit, they have the potential to be one of best surface combatants in the world. They will be the backbone of our anti-submarine capability and escort for the QEC aircraft carriers, in a world that everyone agrees is becoming more dangerous...

A lack of urgency

Not only should these vessels have been ordered at least 5 years ago, we now find that an extraordinarily leisurely build schedule has been agreed upon. Since the 2015 SDSR, the in-service date for the first T26 has been officially described as in the “mid-2020s”. Using historical precedent, many had assumed a construction time of around 5-6 years, expecting HMS Glasgow would probably begin sea trials in 2023. A comparable complex warship HMS Daring, the first Type 45 destroyer, was laid down March 2003 and accepted by RN in December 2008, a build time of 5 years and 9 months. The Type 45 was arguably more complex and innovative than the T26, with 80% of its equipment new to RN service. T26 is a sophisticated design but relatively low risk. The ‘mission bay’ concept and Mk 41 VLS are new to the RN but already in use with other navies. Significant de-risking work on the design and major components has already been conducted using virtual reality and land-based test rigs. There will be some challenging systems integration work and a bespoke propulsion system but the majority of its key weapons, sensors, decoys, combat system and engines are already proven, and in many cases, already in service on other platforms.

...Whatever the reason for the slow construction, it does not look good in the brochure for the T26 Global Combat Ship design that BAE Systems is looking to export to Australia and Canada. As a light cruiser-sized vessel, T26 comes with space and power generation facilities to support future upgrades but the £3.7Bn build contract for the first three ships certainly does not allow for major changes during construction.

Why won’t these frigates be built faster?

There are no problems with the available space or manufacturing facilities in Glasgow, neither are there issues with the supply chain or the overall complexity of the ship. It is not BAE Systems dragging their feet, rather the MoD is deliberately slowing delivery. The shipbuilding facility and workforce has therefore been sized and scaled to meet the requirements of the customer. The reality is that constricted annual budgets force the MoD to make short-term savings by spreading the cost over a longer time period [emphasis added]. Stretching out procurement programmes with artificially-induced delays may reduce the annual expenditure, but over the lifetime of the project always adds significant additional costs...

2) Type 31e:
Making sense of the Royal Navy’s frigate building schedule

In an earlier article [see above], we examined the slow build and delivery schedule for the first Type 26 frigates. With this infographic [please go to link below], we attempt to assess how the projected construction schedule fits with the decommissioning of the Type 23 frigates.

This is very much an outline projection using elements of guesswork, based on the limited information available today and is likely to change. There are several important assumptions made in the timeline. Type 31s will be laid down in a drumbeat of approximately 1 per year and as simpler ships, their trials and introduction into service should be much faster than the Type 26. It has been stated that the first three Type 26s will be under construction for about 8 years with first of class trials and work up lasting almost 2 years. The first three ships are being laid down at around 18-24 month intervals. It is assumed the later ships will be laid down at about the same rate but constructed and brought into service slightly faster, although this would appear to be imperative, it is uncertain at this time.


Each of the five Type 31e frigates will have to be constructed, complete sea trials and worked up in around 4 years (the contract will be awarded in early 2019) if they are to be ready to replace the first five Type 23s on time. This is very demanding and does not provide any slack, should any significant construction snags or technical problems arise [first to be laid down 2019, in service 2023]...

Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline JMCanada

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Re: Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
« Reply #1153 on: September 18, 2018, 18:39:18 »
Now compare that to the fact that V. de Quebec is nowadays deployed in eastern med. along with De Ruyter ( zeven provincien class) and C. Colon (F-100).

How much risk and delay is the MOD ready or willing to take?