Author Topic: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP  (Read 8276 times)

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Offline mrmat29

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University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« on: February 21, 2010, 19:37:18 »
Are there any UW engineering students or students from any program with coop enrolled under ROTP?. I'm a 2nd year electrical engineering student and i'm awating acceptance into ROTP civy u and i was would like to know the experiences of coop students with ROTP.

My next coop term during the summer will most likely be in California and i want to make sure there will be no conflicts since, if i get accepted, i would already be employed by the CF by the time i leave Canada.

Cheers

Offline benny88

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 22:02:36 »
I'll try to look up a reference for you later when I have more time, but I know you cannot partake in subsidized education outside of Canada. I wouldn't be optimistic about getting to do a coop in California.
The people trying to make this world worse, are not taking a day off.

Offline Simian Turner

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2010, 11:35:59 »
I'll try to look up a reference for you later when I have more time, but I know you cannot partake in subsidized education outside of Canada. I wouldn't be optimistic about getting to do a coop in California.

This is not exactly true - subsidized education at the graduate level takes place outside Canada (for example U.K., U.S.) 

There would be no benefit for the CF to enrol you as a Co-op student.  You would have no time do military training because you would be in school or on co-op for the duration of your university degree.  The CF would not pay you (and for your expenses) without any time spent in uniform in return.  The "un-official" goal of Co-op is to graduate into a job that you have selected from your work experiences. In many cases you will receive a stipend while you are on co-op, if you are in the military you cannot accept it since you would already be paid a monthly CF salary.  The two streams will not cross.
The grand essentials of happiness: something to do, something to love, something to hope for.  Allan K. Chalmers

Offline gcclarke

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2010, 12:32:54 »
From CFAO 9-12 -- REGULAR OFFICER TRAINING PLAN
Quote
3.     The purpose of the ROTP is to develop selected civilian candidates
for service as career officers in the Regular Force. This development is
carried out at Canadian Military Colleges (CMCs) or at selected Canadian
universities and affiliated colleges
.

4.     Normally successful candidates will be selected for attendance at a
CMC; however, for a variety of reasons, some candidates are selected for
academic training at other academic institutions. Candidates who already
are attending university when they apply for the ROTP normally will
continue their courses at that university. Candidates selected to attend a
civilian university and who elect to study in a co-operative engineering
programme are restricted to the AERE, CELE, EME, and MARE occupations
. In
addition to the normal academic progression expected, members must complete
successfully the approved training/employment during work-periods to
qualify for continued subsidization.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

Offline ballz

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2010, 20:42:24 »
They definitely will allow ROTP students to do work-terms. If that's a part of your program, then it is what it is.

They pay the fee to the school, and they continue to pay your salary. You cannot accept any payment from the employer that's employing you for your work-term. Of course, the employer HAS to pay you, that's the law. So, if my understanding is correct, the SEMs have set up some sort of scholarship fund or charity or something that the employer's compensation goes to, and you get your CF salary.

What do the AERE, CELE, EME, and MARE acronyms stand for? Aerospace Engineering, Communications and Electronics Engineering, Electric/Mechanical Engineering, and Marine Systems Engineering?
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

Offline gcclarke

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2010, 01:16:34 »
MARE is just Maritime Engineer, and is a somewhat outdated term that encompasses all Marine Systems Engineers, Naval Combat Systems Engineers, and Naval Architects. Now-a-days, we mostly go by Naval Technical Officer (NTO). Of course, a lot of orders, regs, and other publications haven't yet been updated to reflect this change. As for the others, bingo.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

Offline mrmat29

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2010, 21:10:12 »
Wow, gc I didn't even know that until now. My 3 choices were Signals, EME and CELE, so obviously I won't get selected for Signals.

Thanks for the answers guys.

Offline ballz

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2010, 21:47:16 »
If Signals is what you want, but you also want an Engineering degree, you can always go to a school that doesn't require work-terms to get the Engineering degree. They do exist, Dalhousie is one that comes to mind.

EDIT: Errr... nvm... me stupid... You are already attending a school and obviously that school is what you have on your application. I'll just go sit in the corner now.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 21:51:44 by ballz »
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

Offline mrmat29

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 16:33:58 »
Guys I got a call today from my captain with an offer for Signals officer so clearly that document you quoted above gcclarke no longer applies. With regards to the co-op pay, they said that is def. not true about giving my pay away to a fund, but they will do an investigation and get back to me. Wohoo!

Offline ballz

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2010, 20:24:03 »
Guys I got a call today from my captain with an offer for Signals officer so clearly that document you quoted above gcclarke no longer applies. With regards to the co-op pay, they said that is def. not true about giving my pay away to a fund, but they will do an investigation and get back to me. Wohoo!

Keep us informed about what their investigation reveals, but I got that info from my SEM brief (which was only like 2 weeks before I posted that message), and it's the SEMs and such that handle those matters, not the RCs.

From a good friend of mine on an engineering work-term as I am typing this message:
"Ballz says:
 hey man
***** says:
 hey
Ballz says:
 quick question, you don't get any moneys from the company you are doing your work-term with right? you only get your CF pay?
***** says:
 exactly"

The work-term is a part of your education, which is a part of your training, so it would be a conflict of interest for you to receive moneys or any other compensation from a company employing you on a work-term. So, congrats on your offer, but don't get too excited about getting paid extra on your work-terms.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

Offline Simian Turner

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2010, 23:21:08 »
Hi Gents,

I know from personal experience, as I placed an Officer on counselling and probation rather than the other option charge him, for accepting a stipend while on a work term.
The grand essentials of happiness: something to do, something to love, something to hope for.  Allan K. Chalmers

Offline mrmat29

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2010, 16:25:42 »
I got an answer through my MCC from the guy that manages the ROTP program in Ontario and there are essentially 3 options which co-op students can take while on coop since being paid by both the DND and the co-op company is not allowed:

  • Request to be put on leave without pay from DND
  • Send a request in to my university to do co-op for the Army (if credit is granted for the work term)
  • Keep DND pay and return co-op pay to university

Offline ballz

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Re: University of Waterloo Students Enrolled in ROTP
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 16:40:21 »
I got an answer through my MCC from the guy that manages the ROTP program in Ontario and there are essentially 3 options which co-op students can take while on coop since being paid by both the DND and the co-op company is not allowed:

  • Request to be put on leave without pay from DND
  • Send a request in to my university to do co-op for the Army (if credit is granted for the work term)
  • Keep DND pay and return co-op pay to university

I know option 2 has been done a few times by a few people and worked out well. Basically the CF pays the university your fee for your work-term in order to get credit for it. You go do your course and get 2 birds with one stone.

Option 3 seems to be what happens when that can't be done, because...

Somebody with more TI will have to confirm this but I was under the impression the CF is very reluctant to put people on LWOP, especially numerous times (at 4 months in length each) within a short span of time (4 years). I'm sure someone with TI will quickly stop by to confirm or dismiss that tidbit.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller