Poll

Where do YOU feel the cenotaph's new home should be?

Beechwood Cemetery
9 (25%)
Canadian National War Museum
24 (66.7%)
NDHQ (Nortel Campus)
1 (2.8%)
Elsewhere in Ottawa (post a comment explaining where/why)
2 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Voting closed: January 23, 2012, 06:41:33

Author Topic: Where should the monuments come home to?  (Read 47097 times)

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Offline milnews.ca

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Where should the monuments come home to?
« on: November 13, 2010, 12:59:11 »
This piece in today's Kingston Whig-Standard raises a good question:
Quote
As the Canadian Forces abandon the desert base that was their staging area into Afghan -istan, they are bringing back one of the most important items there.

The centrepiece of Camp Mirage was a subdued but elegant cairn in the centre of the camp, outside the mess. On it were plaques commemorating each of the 152 Canadian soldiers who have died in the war, including three who grew up in this area.

The granite monument at Al Minhad Air Base, surrounded by carefully tended green grass that was an anomaly in the desert, is on its way home.

"It will be reinstalled in Canada, but we haven't selected a location for that yet," Capt. Jennifer Kellerman of the Canadian Expeditionary Force command confirmed Friday.

In 2009, when the Whig-Standard visited Afghanistan, military members were already discussing what should be done with the Mirage cairn and a similar memorial that had been erected on the grounds of the Canadian headquarters at Kandahar airfield.

Military personnel wanted to see the monument permanently reinstalled in a place of honour in Canada, such as the War Museum in Ottawa.

The spotless monuments are cleaned of desert dust twice a day and are visited by all families of casualties who are flown into theatre to see where their sons and daughters gave their lives.

Many of the plaques have tucked into their frames photos, letters or poignant little mementoes such as poppies left by loved ones.

A plaque erected in front of the cairn states that the monument is a memorial to those who died in support of the Afghan -istan mission and that "This cairn belongs to all Canadians and visitors who wish to pay their respects."

It also informs them that it is permissible to walk on the grass surrounding the memorial.

The cairn is large enough that it can be seen in satellite photos of the base on Google Maps.

Kellerman said the military understands the importance of the monument, not just to soldiers but as a permanent memorial to the campaign in Afghan - istan. She vowed that it won't just be put into storage somewhere.

"The decision on where it will go here in Canada will probably be made at the level of the chief of defence staff," she said ....
Even if it is a decision "made at the level of the (CDS)", any ideas for a home for this?  Or even the other monuments up in/around Afghanistan?
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Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 13:11:57 »
Perhaps the National Military Cemetery would be a fitting place for the monuments.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 13:18:59 »
War Museum?
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Offline Task

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 13:21:14 »
Somewhere along the Highway of Heroes, where they all traveled?

Offline lethalLemon

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 13:21:22 »
They should pool each the plaques and such and organize them into monuments for each city/town; create a monument to send to Montreal consisting of all fallen heroes from Montreal... and do so for Vancouver, New Westminster, Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa... Flin Flon, Quebec City, Trois Rivières, St John's etc etc

That way, all the families and friends will be able to pay their respects whenever they want to a formal monument for their fallen loved ones without having to fly to... let's say Ottawa... to see the "official" (?) dedications that were erected at KAF.

OR create duplicates to display at the National Military Cemetary, War Museum or whatever; or have a duplicate monuments (as mentioned above) sent to the cities rather than the originals; and have the originals at the War Museum etc.

It would be nice if they created another national monument/memorial in Ottawa as well, because if memory serves me correctly, there's a monument for Pre-Confederation victories of the British Empire, WWI, WW2, and Korea - Afghanistan being the largest and (I could be wrong) first combat operation of the CF since Korea.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's my  :2c:
« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 13:27:49 by lethalLemon »
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Offline dogger1936

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2010, 13:35:45 »

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2010, 13:46:43 »
My Front yard.

I live 2 blocks away from one of the bridges that passes over the Highway of heroes.  :D

I agree with Infanteer, The War Museum would be  a perfect place, as they have plenty of space around the building.

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2010, 14:52:32 »
I'm going to be a heretic and say they shouldn't come home.

There are memorials at home.

That memorial should be left in place in perpetuity for the Afghans to see the names of those who died trying to rebuild their country.  There is ample precedence in the military cemeteries scattered across the world and maintained by Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Americans....I don't know if other countries also maintain cemeteries..... but all of those cemeteries were maintained by locals, often in the face of opposition by their fellow countrymen.

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2010, 15:38:18 »
I'm going to be a heretic and say they shouldn't come home.

There are memorials at home.

That memorial should be left in place in perpetuity for the Afghans to see the names of those who died trying to rebuild their country.  There is ample precedence in the military cemeteries scattered across the world and maintained by Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Americans....I don't know if other countries also maintain cemeteries..... but all of those cemeteries were maintained by locals, often in the face of opposition by their fellow countrymen.
I believe this is the one in Dubai. I do not think leaving it there would serve them(UAE) and probably would be used to tether the aircraft bound for Canada on...

Offline mariomike

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2010, 15:40:01 »
I'm going to be a heretic and say they shouldn't come home.

There are memorials at home.

That memorial should be left in place in perpetuity for the Afghans to see the names of those who died trying to rebuild their country.  There is ample precedence in the military cemeteries scattered across the world and maintained by Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Americans....I don't know if other countries also maintain cemeteries..... but all of those cemeteries were maintained by locals, often in the face of opposition by their fellow countrymen.


I have an uncle interred ( In a Canadian war grave. There are four other Canadians buried there, and their two R.A.F. crew-mates. ) in a communal cemetery in France. It's not a military cemetery. The local people have been very kind and helpful when our families have visited ( my father actually vacationed there a few times after he retired ),  and were very brave in the summer of 1944. Liberation was still a few weeks away.
The tall white wooden crosses are French war graves. They ( the town people ) buried the Canadians front and centre facing their national flag.

I know it's not the same situation as Afganistan, but France made a very positive impression on my family.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 12:48:27 by mariomike »

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2010, 15:55:47 »
I'm going to be a heretic and say they shouldn't come home.

There are memorials at home.

That memorial should be left in place in perpetuity for the Afghans to see the names of those who died trying to rebuild their country.  There is ample precedence in the military cemeteries scattered across the world and maintained by Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Americans....I don't know if other countries also maintain cemeteries..... but all of those cemeteries were maintained by locals, often in the face of opposition by their fellow countrymen.

When the Taliban take over again, because of short-sightedness of politicians, they will be destroyed. Remember the Buddha in central Afghanistan?

I can't see it surviving.

My $0.02 worth.

Regards
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2010, 15:59:53 »
They should pool each the plaques and such and organize them into monuments for each city/town; create a monument to send to Montreal consisting of all fallen heroes from Montreal... and do so for Vancouver, New Westminster, Surrey, Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa... Flin Flon, Quebec City, Trois Rivières, St John's etc etc

That way, all the families and friends will be able to pay their respects whenever they want to a formal monument for their fallen loved ones without having to fly to... let's say Ottawa... to see the "official" (?) dedications that were erected at KAF.

OR create duplicates to display at the National Military Cemetary, War Museum or whatever; or have a duplicate monuments (as mentioned above) sent to the cities rather than the originals; and have the originals at the War Museum etc.

It would be nice if they created another national monument/memorial in Ottawa as well, because if memory serves me correctly, there's a monument for Pre-Confederation victories of the British Empire, WWI, WW2, and Korea - Afghanistan being the largest and (I could be wrong) first combat operation of the CF since Korea.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's my  :2c:

Tip top ideas right here, have some points on me.

The original should be located somewhere here in Ottawa, and smaller versions put in each respective soldiers community.

Going on a small tangent, me and my great uncle have been discussing planting one red maple for every fallen soldier (152 trees in total) on our family land. Input greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 16:07:28 by HavokFour »
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2010, 16:10:29 »
Screw Ottawa.  The only common denominator all those who were killed have in common is they all landed in Trenton.  Give it a place of honour there.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2010, 16:17:24 »
I'm going to be a heretic and say they shouldn't come home.

There are memorials at home.

That memorial should be left in place in perpetuity for the Afghans to see the names of those who died trying to rebuild their country.  There is ample precedence in the military cemeteries scattered across the world and maintained by Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Americans....I don't know if other countries also maintain cemeteries..... but all of those cemeteries were maintained by locals, often in the face of opposition by their fellow countrymen.

Very good point;

http://www.scotfot.com/BritishCemeteryWebsite/index.html

http://www.indian-cemeteries.org/cemetery_details.asp?town=peshawar&cem=tehkal%20cemetery

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2010, 16:22:46 »
I'm going to be a heretic and say they shouldn't come home.

There are memorials at home.

That memorial should be left in place in perpetuity for the Afghans to see the names of those who died trying to rebuild their country.  There is ample precedence in the military cemeteries scattered across the world and maintained by Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Americans....I don't know if other countries also maintain cemeteries..... but all of those cemeteries were maintained by locals, often in the face of opposition by their fellow countrymen.

Given that countries' state of flux, give them a duplicate and bring the real one back to Canada. I can't imagine the heartache and anguish that moment would cause if it was unceremoniously destroyed either by a ruling power taken over in civil war, or a suicide bomber.

Offline lethalLemon

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2010, 16:25:03 »
Screw Ottawa.  The only common denominator all those who were killed have in common is they all landed in Trenton.  Give it a place of honour there.

Even better then!
Tip top ideas right here, have some points on me.

The original should be located somewhere here in Ottawa, and smaller versions put in each respective soldiers community.

Going on a small tangent, me and my great uncle have been discussing planting one red maple for every fallen soldier (152 trees in total) on our family land. Input greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much

...and good luck to you with your Honour Trees :)
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2010, 16:43:16 »
Screw Ottawa.  The only common denominator all those who were killed have in common is they all landed in Trenton.  Give it a place of honour there.
Very good point.  I agree.
So, there I was....

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2010, 16:54:31 »
Very good point.  I agree.

But to be fair, you probably never made it past "screw Ottawa".    ;D
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2010, 17:24:46 »
But to be fair, you probably never made it past "screw Ottawa".    ;D
There was text after "screw Ottawa"?

;D
So, there I was....

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2010, 17:29:56 »
I like the idea of sharing the monuments across Canada (not everybody gets to Ottawa to pay their respects) the best.

It's also possible, though, that this option could get complicated with families where one parent lives in x and another lives in y, leading to potential "wishbone" issues.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2010, 17:31:53 »
I like the idea of sharing the monuments across Canada (not everybody gets to Ottawa to pay their respects) the best.

It's also possible, though, that this option could get complicated with families where one parent lives in x and another lives in y, leading to potential "wishbone" issues.

But also for those fallen with spouses & children living in 3rd, 4th, 5th etc etc locations.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2010, 18:07:58 »
I don't think leaving them over there, whether Afghanistan or UAE is an option. UAE's will be mowed down as soon as the local millionaires want the land for a mall, with no thought. For Afghanistan, if and when we 'all' (read ISAF, allies, et al) leave, certain locals will take great glee in destroying them and filming it for propaganda. This isn't Holland.

A revered place in the National Capitol for the originals and a grant towards total cost and common construction plans for any local community that wants to erect a replica. The replicas should be standardised and reflect the original but not outdo it.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2010, 18:58:49 »
One should be put in or around the 2 AMU passenger terminal here in Trenton.
Reasoning as follows

1. Its the beginning of the Highway of Heroes
2. All of the repats go through here.
3. Its a high traffic area that most of us will pass through at least once.
4. I am sure that given stewardship of the monument  8 Wing and 2 AMU would take very good care of it.
5. The National Airforce Museum is just down the road that  lots of people visit and it would be something that would be seen by a lot of ordinary Canadians with its close proximity.

As for adding memorials all across Canada I see it as a non issue. Most towns have cenotaphs to their fallen. The names of the local dead from Afghanistan should be included on them.

The others should be placed at the War Museum that way its there for all those who want to see it in an area that is within that context.

Just my View on the matter

Offline wildman0101

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2010, 19:10:01 »
I agree with Kat Steven's.
Screw Ottawa...
Our repatriated started  their
true journey home on the high-
way of Hero's. The monument
should go to C.F.B Trenton.
Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2010, 19:25:02 »
I'm easy. Trenton it can be.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.