Author Topic: Questions about MP vs MPO  (Read 66971 times)

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2013, 21:22:09 »
After doing some research it seems to me that because policing is a specialized trade, NCM MP's get promoted to Corporal after basic training and MPO's go right to Lieutenant. My question is this: After looking at the pay scales a new MP would make $4622 per month while a MPO LT will makeles at $4137.



Is this correct? Why does the officer make less?

The new MP NCM will go right to Cpl upon being qualified partly in recognition of the fact that to get in they MUST have either prior military experience, or some relevant education that they have paid for out of pocket.

The officer will hit Captain pretty quickly, and sees significant pay increase at that point that leaves the NCMs in the dust.
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Offline dvh1

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2013, 21:22:54 »

Offline jwtg

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2013, 21:23:17 »
If I'm not mistaken, NCM MPs also qualify for spec pay, so they would in fact make more than $4622.  I have no idea if it's spec 1 or spec 2, so I'm not sure what they make.

Asking why the NCM makes more than the officer is kind of silly, though; you're comparing apples to oranges.  MP and MPO are not the same job.  Corporal and Lt are not the same rank.  NCM MPs, for example, can apply as lateral applicants to the RCMP, while MPOs cannot.  The idea is that NCM MPs presumably do a job closer to that of a civilian police constable. 

The jobs are different, the ranks are different, the pay is different. 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 22:03:01 by jwtg »

Offline dvh1

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2013, 21:44:24 »
If I'm not mistaken, NCM MPs also qualify for spec pay, so they would in fact make more than $4622.  I have no idea if it's spec 1 or spec 2, so I'm not sure what they make.

Asking why the NCM makes more than the officer is kind of silly, though; you're comparing apples to oranges.  MP and MPO are not the same job.  Corporal and Lt are not the same rank.  NCM MPs, for example, can apply as lateral applicants to the RCMP, for example, while MPOs cannot.  The idea is that NCM MPs presumably do a job closer to that of a civilian police constable. 

The jobs are different, the ranks are different, the pay is different.

Interesting perspective about the NCM MPs doing actual police work while MPOs take over the administrative side. Ive always wanted to be a police officer, but also want to use my Criminology degree and leadership skills to lead a group of people. Wuld MPOs be considered legal officers and get paid the legal officer bonus?

Offline Brihard

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2013, 21:49:52 »
Interesting perspective about the NCM MPs doing actual police work while MPOs take over the administrative side. Ive always wanted to be a police officer, but also want to use my Criminology degree and leadership skills to lead a group of people. Wuld MPOs be considered legal officers and get paid the legal officer bonus?

God no. A legal officer is an actual lawyer, called to the bar and licensed to practice law, and paid accordingly. An MPO is an officer who commands/administers MPs and might sometimes (rarely, by my understanding) have actual law enforcement duties.

In my experience, you don't use a degree to lead a group of people. My crim degree, for instance, didn't teach me a schmick about leadership. A degree is simply paper on the wall that opens certain doors that otherwise would have been closed.

Why not simply apply to a civilian police force?
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline dvh1

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2013, 21:56:01 »
God no. A legal officer is an actual lawyer, called to the bar and licensed to practice law, and paid accordingly. An MPO is an officer who commands/administers MPs and might sometimes (rarely, by my understanding) have actual law enforcement duties.

In my experience, you don't use a degree to lead a group of people. My crim degree, for instance, didn't teach me a schmick about leadership. A degree is simply paper on the wall that opens certain doors that otherwise would have been closed.

Why not simply apply to a civilian police force?

Applications are in, just like you. Ive seen your screen name on the blue line forums. Im in the process with alot of agencies right now, along with the military.

Offline NinerSix

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2013, 21:57:15 »
Leading people by virtue of rank/position is authority, not leadership.
The process is not the mission.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2013, 22:01:01 »
Applications are in, just like you. Ive seen your screen name on the blue line forums. Im in the process with alot of agencies right now, along with the military.

Gotcha. Best of luck dude.
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Offline Schleich

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Questions about MP vs MPO
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2013, 00:43:16 »
I have used the search function and I haven't been able to find very specific answers to my question. The general gist I got from the topics I read over basically stated that MPs are on the field while MPOs are behind a desk making sure the MPs are in order. Basically Police Officer vs. Chief of Police type duties? Anyway, I have a few specific questions outside a basic run down on things.

1. If you go through RMC for Military Police you can only become a MPO as opposed to an MP?
2. Going through RMC can result in you being stationed anywhere in Canada?
3. What are the chances of being a very hands-on MPO, for example actually going out in the field with your MPs when you have finished things up behind the desk?
4. Are MP/MPOs only stationed in bases or are they sometimes put on say ships for example to perform the same duties?

Thank you for any assistance, if there are any MP/MPOs on here I would love to hear from you as well as I'm sure I'll be bringing forward more questions. Sorry if I missed the answer to any questions, I honestly searched!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 00:47:42 by Schleich »

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Re: MP vs. MPO Specifics
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2013, 09:20:42 »
OK...

1. If you go through RMC for Military Police you can only become a MPO as opposed to an MP?
Yes, you can only be a MPO.  Unless you fail your MPO training at which point you could apply to revert to MP to complete your obligatory service.  This is not a sure bet though and I have never seen it done.  There are MP who were previously attempting to be officers in other MOS who reverted to the ranks though.
Quote
2. Going through RMC can result in you being stationed anywhere in Canada?
Joining the Regular Force will result in you being stationed anywhere in Canada.
Quote
3. What are the chances of being a very hands-on MPO, for example actually going out in the field with your MPs when you have finished things up behind the desk?
Should be zero as it isn't your job.  Just as I don't try to take over the Units financial matters because it isn't my job, MPO shouldn't be trying to go out to write tickets or do investigations, but some MPO try to do it.  If you are doing your job right, you won't have time to get out to play, particularly as a Jnr Officer as there is a ton of career development stuff you need to concentrate on.
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4. Are MP/MPOs only stationed in bases or are they sometimes put on say ships for example to perform the same duties?
MP go where the CF goes.  Sometimes they are on ship, sometimes they are in the field sometimes they are on the airfield.  MP are relatively rare on ship but very common on the other two, depends on the tasks.

Offline Anakha

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Re: Question about MPO rank and pay
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2013, 11:23:42 »
I'm not an expert, but here's generally how I see it. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken somewhere.

A Cpl doesn't get Spec pay until he completes his QL5. That's about 2 years after he finishes his QL3, assuming all goes well. I'm not sure how long it takes a Cpl to get through to his QL3 from the beginning of Basic, but let's call it an even 3 years total from his first day. Once he qualifies for Spec pay he makes around 62k.

A Lt MPO DEO will be promoted to Captain after 3 years from his first day and takes a pay jump from 55k to about 73k a year. A Captain will then cap out after 11 years at 96k if he remains in that rank. Of the NCOs, only CWO can make that income.

Therein lies the difference.

Offline Muscles And Brains

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MP to MPO
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2013, 08:44:05 »
Hi,

        Currently I am applying to community college for police technology and planning on using the NCM SEP program to subsidize it. Following the mandatory service, I would like to apply to ROTP. I am having trouble trying to figure out which program to apply for that qualifies for Military Police Officer. From common logic, my first choice would be criminology and my second would me forensic science. Could anyone please help me out?

Thanks

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Re: MP to MPO
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2013, 08:48:50 »
Found the below info from google search and browsing this sub forum.  Calling your local CFRC/D and asking them what degrees are accepted for MPO would be another source for information.

http://www.vcds-vcemd.forces.gc.ca/cfpm-gpfc/apm-agp/dpm-gpa/mpa-cep/mpbih-dibpm-eng.asp
Quote
Academic Requirements - Officers

To be eligible for consideration as a Commissioned Military Police Officer, candidates will have obtained an undergraduate degree from a recognised university in a criminal justice related field. Commissioned Officer entrance plans may differ according to qualifications. A Canadian Forces Recruiter should be consulted to determine enrolment plan eligibility:

Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP) - involves the completion of a university education under government sponsorship prior to beginning full-time employment as a Military Police Officer. To be considered eligible for this plan candidates should have attained, or be in the process of attaining, a high school diploma with university-oriented credits.

Direct Entry Officer (DEO) - to qualify for direct entry as a Military Police Officer, candidates should already possess a university undergraduate degree in a related discipline (as promulgated by DMCA).

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=99439.0
Quote
MPO

There are two primary pathways leading to employment in the MPO occupation in the CF, as follows:

 direct entry under the Direct Entry Officer (DEO) plan; or
subsidized education under the Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP).
 
DEO


The ideal MPO candidate has an undergraduate degree from a recognized Canadian university in any of the following programs:

- Criminal Justice

- Criminology

- Emergency/Crisis and Disaster Management

- Justice Studies

- Law

- Police Science

- Psychology

- Sociology

 

It is also acceptable, though less desirable, to have any undergraduate degree from a recognized Canadian university.  In such case, applicants also require relevant experience in policing, such as employment in Federal, Provincial or Municipal law enforcement or security organizations (e.g. the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Ontario Provincial Police, the Ottawa Regional Police, Corrections, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, the Canada Border Services Agency, etc "

On the 2nd page of this sub forum I found this thread
"Education Requirements to become a MP or MPO"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,32608.0.html
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 09:04:10 by -Skeletor- »

Offline dapaterson

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Re: MP to MPO
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2013, 08:54:16 »
ROTP is an entry plan.  What you'd be looking at is the UTPNCM program, an in-service selection program, to pursue an undergraduate degree.

Look up MPO on the recruiting website, and see what degrees are acceptable for DEOs - that should give you an idea of what courses of study will be acceptable.

Or, as always, you can talk to your friendly neighbourhood PSO.
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Re: MP to MPO
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2013, 17:33:26 »
Hi,

        Currently I am applying to community college for police technology and planning on using the NCM SEP program to subsidize it. Following the mandatory service, I would like to apply to ROTP. I am having trouble trying to figure out which program to apply for that qualifies for Military Police Officer. From common logic, my first choice would be criminology and my second would me forensic science. Could anyone please help me out?

Thanks
As I noted in your other post, MP is not a trade which qualifies for NCM-SEP.  The best you can do is join a Reserve unit and apply for partial reimbursement under CBI 210.801 (Education Reimbursement - Primary Reserve).  The CF is not going to enroll you full-time and then pay you to go to school.

Offline DAA

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Re: MP to MPO
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2013, 17:41:26 »
As noted above, there is no such thing as NCM SEP for the Military Police occupation (NCM).  You enter as a "semi-skilled" because you already possess the "CF recognized" 2 year progam.  Without it, you won't even be considered.  As far as MPO (Officer) is concerned, you can go the ROTP route or DEO, here are the current requirements:

MPO ROTP candidates will pursue a undergraduate degree in any of the following programs:

*   Criminology;
*   Justice Studies;
*   Criminal Justice;
*   Police Science;
*   Emergency/Crisis and Disaster Management;
*   Law;
*   Psychology;
*   Sociology; or
*   Baccalauréat en Sécurité Publique

To apply for DEO MPO, you would need to already have one of the degrees mentioned above.
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Offline Muscles And Brains

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Re: MP to MPO
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2013, 05:26:34 »
According to the website, there is an NCM SEP for Military Police. It's at John Abbott College, near Montreal, QC.

Offline DAA

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Re: MP to MPO
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2013, 10:27:13 »
According to the website, there is an NCM SEP for Military Police. It's at John Abbott College, near Montreal, QC.

NCM SEP is an "Entry Plan" and is not available for enrolment into the MP (NCM) Occupation.  The only entry stream is "semi-skilled" and you must have the "approved and recognized" 2 year program to even be considered.

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/militarypolice-75#education-3

Some programs are "recognized" by the CF and some aren't.  So if you are planning on becoming an MP and will be taking a 2 year program, you are strongly advised to contact CF Recruiting to determine if the program which you are considering pursuing is in fact "recognized" by the CF.

Also, what website are you looking at that shows this specific Institution and NCM SEP???

NCM SEP Occupations --->  http://www.forces.ca/en/page/paideducation-96#paidcollege-2
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 18:26:53 by DAA »
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Re: MP to MPO
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2013, 16:26:43 »
According to the website, there is an NCM SEP for Military Police. It's at John Abbott College, near Montreal, QC.
I'd also be most interested in seeing your source for this.  I've checked the John Abbott site and it certainly isn't there either.

Offline Muscles And Brains

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Re: MP to MPO
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2013, 06:08:54 »
I looked again, I must of misunderstood the video.

Offline m6

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MPO RMC
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2013, 14:20:49 »
According to forces.ca MPO is an "RMC Eligible" trade. With that in mind, exactly which Degree at RMC is ideal for MPO? The best I can see would be Military Psychology & Leadership, which seems less than ideal to me but still a decent option I suppose.

Forces.ca also states "In some instances, the Canadian Forces is able to pay for Officer Cadets to attend other Canadian universities in a relevant degree program."

To me, it seems that most Civy U's have substantially better Degree options for a potential MPO.

With all of that said, when applying for ROTP with MPO in mind, can you opt for a Civy U?

Offline Canadian.Trucker

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Re: MPO RMC
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2013, 14:52:37 »
It's been approximately 11 years since I went through the ROTP process, but at the time I requested RMC and was given the CivU option.  Many factors come in to play such as bed spaces available at RMC etc. but I do believe you can request to go Civ U.  However, at the end of the day the powers that be will make the decision on your behalf.
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Offline Shamrock

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Re: MPO RMC
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2013, 15:57:52 »
Candidates will pursue a
undergraduate degree in any of the
following programs:
o Criminology;
o Justice Studies;
o Criminal Justice;
o Police Science;
o Emergency/Crisis and Disaster
Management;
o Law;
o Psychology;
o Sociology; or
o Baccalauréat en Sécurité Publique

Offline MP ashley ann

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Re: MPO RMC
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2013, 13:18:31 »
As a very recent grad from RMC in the MPO trade, I graduated with Military Psychology and Leadership. I transferred to officer from NCM, applied to both Civi U and RMC. I had a college diploma in policing, was given 2 years of credit for Civi U in criminology, but was given the choice of RMC for psych and not Civi U when my application was approved. So, you never know;)

Good luck!

Offline Thinkingofenlisting

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Questions about MPO
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2013, 17:06:33 »
I'm a student currently completing my Master's in Criminology and will be finished this fall. I have always had a love for the military and I'm looking at pursuing a career as an MPO.

I have a few questions about the job and was hoping I could get some answers and insights here.

1. In looking at the website I concluded that MPO's deal more with the administrative end of the job while MP's are engaged in more traditional police work, is this correct?

2. I also noticed there is a lot of opportunity for career development with specialty training and advanced training, and a lot of those categories are extremely interesting. I'm going to assume that MPO's would have first shot at some of that training? or at least would be strongly considered for it versus MP's.

3. Any information on the lifestyle, postings, career development in general would be appreciated.

4. If anyone has some more detailed information on some of the training involving: Drug Investigator, and Counter-Human Intelligence Specialist I would appreciate that also.

Thanks.