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The Mess => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: Brad Sallows on September 06, 2015, 12:39:29

Title: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brad Sallows on September 06, 2015, 12:39:29
>... Trudeau said his party had already set a target of accepting 25,000 refugees from Syria and the region, but are “committed to doing more.”

Why only that region?  What quotas do the NDP and LPC suggest for other parts of Africa, southeast Asia, and eastern Europe?

Headlines go back years announcing the deaths of X dozen or X hundred people - at sea, suffocated in containers, overcrowded vehicles in MVAs, attacked by combatants while fleeing or assembled in camps, etc.

This has followed the usual pattern: general indifference to everything in print; then a Shocking Image; then demands that someone (government of the day) do something Right Now.  Extra emphasis if it might be used for political leverage.  None of the people bleating showed much interest until a picture of a corpse face down in the mud on a beach showed up on the front page and in their social media feeds.

I understand the motivations: people care, a little bit, about the dead kid; mostly, they care about exploiting the circumstances of his death for political advantage.

Those people remind me of a verse from "Go Away" by Living Colour:
I see the starving Africans on TV
I feel it has nothing to do with me
I sent my twenty dollars to Liveaid
I've aided my guilty conscience to go away

This is chiefly about guilty consciences and winning elections.  Most of the people who beak off about R2P have no intention whatsoever of following through.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chris Pook on September 06, 2015, 13:18:19
>... Trudeau said his party had already set a target of accepting 25,000 refugees from Syria and the region, but are “committed to doing more.”

Why only that region?  What quotas do the NDP and LPC suggest for other parts of Africa, southeast Asia, and eastern Europe?

Headlines go back years announcing the deaths of X dozen or X hundred people - at sea, suffocated in containers, overcrowded vehicles in MVAs, attacked by combatants while fleeing or assembled in camps, etc.

This has followed the usual pattern: general indifference to everything in print; then a Shocking Image; then demands that someone (government of the day) do something Right Now.  Extra emphasis if it might be used for political leverage.  None of the people bleating showed much interest until a picture of a corpse face down in the mud on a beach showed up on the front page and in their social media feeds.

I understand the motivations: people care, a little bit, about the dead kid; mostly, they care about exploiting the circumstances of his death for political advantage.

Those people remind me of a verse from "Go Away" by Living Colour:
I see the starving Africans on TV
I feel it has nothing to do with me
I sent my twenty dollars to Liveaid
I've aided my guilty conscience to go away

This is chiefly about guilty consciences and winning elections.  Most of the people who beak off about R2P have no intention whatsoever of following through.

Brad, in general I can agree with you.

I assume you are not rationalizing inaction.  As I`ve said before, we can`t be everywhere all the time and solve all the problems.

In my view the situation calls for a bit of Ralph Klein`s wisdon:  it is time for the politicians to see which way the crowd is heading and run to the head of the parade.

Other versions: strike while the iron is hot, make hay while the sun shines - or Emmanuel Rahm`s never let a crisis go to waste.

In 2001 a catalyzing event permitted action.  10 years later the adrenaline was all gone and people just wanted it all to go away.  Is five years enough time for people to recharge their batteries and feel the adrenaline rush again?

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: ModlrMike on September 09, 2015, 15:02:59
The voice of reason?

Analysis - On refugee crisis, PM must heed more than public opinion
Canadians may feel a moral imperative to act in the face of tragedy — but good public policy demands scrutiny
(http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-syria-refugees-neil-macdonald-analysis-1.3219789)

By Neil Macdonald, CBC News Posted: Sep 09, 2015 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Sep 09, 2015 5:00 AM ET
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Fishbone Jones on September 10, 2015, 01:33:40
Brad, in general I can agree with you.

I assume you are not rationalizing inaction.  As I`ve said before, we can`t be everywhere all the time and solve all the problems.

In my view the situation calls for a bit of Ralph Klein`s wisdon:  it is time for the politicians to see which way the crowd is heading and run to the head of the parade.

Other versions: strike while the iron is hot, make hay while the sun shines - or Emmanuel Rahm`s never let a crisis go to waste.

In 2001 a catalyzing event permitted action.  10 years later the adrenaline was all gone and people just wanted it all to go away.  Is five years enough time for people to recharge their batteries and feel the adrenaline rush again?

Maybe. No matter what any politician does about it, the majority of the vocal minority, that are flagellating themselves over this, aren't going to change their vote anyway. It would garner no gain, so why bother. All the leaders have given their platform, thoughts and swipes at the other two. I suspect it won't dominate the huskings much past Monday or Tuesday. Unless, the MSM has a slow news day, or Harper gains in the polls. Then the stops will come out.

At least Harper wants security checks on every one of them we bring in.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on September 10, 2015, 09:48:43

At least Harper wants security checks on every one of them we bring in.


Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
On refugee crisis, PM must heed more than public opinion (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-syria-refugees-neil-macdonald-analysis-1.3219789)
Canadians may feel a moral imperative to act in the face of tragedy — but good public policy demands scrutiny
By Neil Macdonald, CBC News
Posted: Sep 09, 2015 5:00 AM ET
Last Updated: Sep 09, 2015 5:00 AM ET

Public opinion is a fearsome force, particularly when it moves decisively and suddenly.

It tends to trample objections, as independent-minded Americans discovered following the events of Sept. 11.

And at the moment, on the strength of one remarkably powerful image from Turkey, Canadian public opinion decisively and suddenly wants the prime minister to order his officials, right now, to start accepting Syrian refugees by the thousands, or, even better, by the tens of thousands.

The Liberal and NDP leaders, recognizing a potential election game-changer when they see it, have fully embraced the idea. Conservative Leader Stephen Harper has not.

Advocates of refugee admission put that down to his hawkishness, or a lack of pity. And Harper is partly to blame for that, given the awkward Conservative arguments that airstrikes by Canadian fighter jets over Syria and Iraq will in the long run help ordinary Syrians more than humanitarian aid.

But Harper is also the prime minister. And, as Ariel Sharon said after becoming Israel's leader, where you stand depends on where you sit.

Unlike Justin Trudeau and Tom Mulcair, Harper is regularly briefed by expert, senior government officials — public servants obligated by national self-interest, not polls, or the emotion that naturally arises from a picture of a small corpse face down on a beach.

They are no doubt telling him the obvious: that good public policy is not written in response to a single picture.

How much screening — and how quickly?

They would be pointing out that sensible refugee policy must consider the masses violently displaced from a number of countries other than Syria: Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Libya, Eritrea, Iran and Somalia, to name just the seven other nationalities most commonly given formal asylum in Europe.

And they would also be telling their prime minister something that politicians and journalists have trouble saying in a liberal democracy whose sympathetic citizens are demanding action: the Syrian refugees are emanating from the world's current epicentre of ethno-religious violence, and they require screening.

Proper screening takes time.

Yes, most are simply wretched victims of evil men. But many are also tribally or religiously tied to the vicious regime in Damascus, or the country's equally nasty array of rebel groups.

Even worse, some may carry a hatred for the foreign powers carrying out the airstrikes that kill both fighters and civilians. Like Canada.

And there will always be a fraction of Middle Eastern migrants unwilling to adapt to pluralist Western values. European governments have coped with that.

As a Canadian official who has for decades inhabited the secret world told me this week: "I'd advise the prime minister to go as slowly as possible."

Answering the bells

All that said, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service doesn't make policy. It will carry out as many security checks as instructed.

The question is, how quickly and thoroughly does the prime minister want those checks done?

There is the simplest sort of check: does the applicant have a criminal record, or ring a bell in any of the country's security databases? That sort of check can be done quickly.

But what if a bell rings? Then allied services have to be consulted, and the reason for the bell-ringing investigated.

Is the individual the problem, or does he or she merely share the same name as someone with a darker past? If it is a matter of association, how serious was that association? Did they just sit beside one another on a train, or in a mosque, or were they together?

Government ministers, of course, prefer complete assurance, which of course never exists. You don't really know you have a problem until you have a problem.

A matter of political will

Ask the agents suddenly tasked with investigating the Air India bombing in 1985; Canada's security agencies, faced with the worst militant attack in Canadian history, knew precious little about Sikh radicals in British Columbia. They barely had any translators who spoke the language.

Ordering expedited screening and acceptance of migrants from a place like Syria is therefore a matter of political will.

In the United States, clearly, no such will exists. Clearances there take an average of two years, and the Americans have staggering resources, compared with Canada.

Having gone through Sept. 11 and two subsequent wars, Americans are utterly uninterested in admitting huddled masses of Middle Eastern Arabs. (And probably not too keen on Canada doing so, given the shared border.)

The paradox, of course, is that the United States, which invaded Iraq based on a lie, is directly responsible for what is happening now in the region. And so, to an extent, is Canada nowadays, given Harper's taste for militarism.

Some act of remediation toward innocents would seem morally imperative.

But that doesn't alter reality.

A lot is being made now of Canada's admirable decision in 1979 to admit so many Vietnamese boat people. Vietnam, though, was not Syria.

And the decision Harper — or whoever emerges as prime minister after Oct. 19 — must make about admitting Syrian refugees isn't just about compassion, or even morality.


Photos, links and more on LINK (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-syria-refugees-neil-macdonald-analysis-1.3219789).
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on September 10, 2015, 16:54:02
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/rick-hillier-on-help-for-refugees-i-think-we-need-to-do-it-in-a-big-way-1.2556849

The former CDS thinks Canada should do more.  I wonder if he was asked to comment or if he did so on his own initiative.

*Modified for atrocious spelling.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chris Pook on September 10, 2015, 17:31:55
Military assets will be deployed to what location Mr. Hillier?  Latakia, in Syria?  Kobane, on the Syrian-Turkish border?  Iskenderun in Turkey?  Mosul in Iraq? 

ISIS is operating in Mosul and Kobane.  The Turks don't want more refugees on their turf even momentarily.  The Russians have blocked out Latakia and Tartus in Syria.   Some of the governments involved see not "refugees" but "criminals in flight" and would cheerfully invoke the ancient border law of Hot Trod.  The idea of another Ayatollah Khomeini hanging out in Paris on the Left Bank and organizing their local insurrection is not considered appealing. And just in case - the Islamic State sees itself as a State.

To be honest, I don't have a problem with going into any of the places I have mentioned and recreating Kandahar 2007-2011.  In fact I think it is the right course of action.

But it would require a Canadian Brigade and not a Battlegroup.  And it would require a permanent presence (no exit strategies are possible in an area that saw urban warfare 5500 years ago (http://www-news.uchicago.edu/citations/05/051216.hamoukar-nyt.html). And it would require a willingness to authorizing Strategic Corporals to spill blood according to their assessment of local conditions - and tolerate their occasional screw ups.  But I am sure Mr. Hillier knows that better than me.

As to accepting refugees at a faster rate.  I might actually be okay with that.  The value of the existing rules and procedures can be debated - but now is not the time to be debating them.  We should operate under the existing rules.  What is the availability of qualified personnel trained in the existing procedures?  How many of them are available to turn the wheel faster, while still maintaining existing Quality Control standards, so that more refugees of the quality currently accepted can be accepted in a shorter period of time?

Is it appropriate to divert resources from other tasks so that, for example, these young girls (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/indian-sisters-rape-punishment-meenakshi-6358567) could NOT be accepted as refugees in Canada?

Quote
One of two sisters sentenced to be gang-raped in India has spoken of her fear that the village elders who ordered the vile punishment will send someone to carry it out.

Because frankly I would rather have those two girls, and their brother, and his girlfriend/wife and their parents as neighbours than any of these gentlemen.

(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F08%2F26%2F08%2F2BAB4DF600000578-0-image-a-4_1440575762087.jpg&hash=0ee4aa35346200a63a1c58d4d6ff8563)

But hey, that's just me.  And my name isn't Hillier.

Edited to incorporate the correct image.

PS - and if you wish to debate how long race has played a role in the affairs of man:  Sumer, now southern Iraq, was the land of the "ung sang gig-ga".  Translated that means the black headed people: their own name for themselves and not a pejorative.  They invaded the turf circa 3600 BC - coincident with the urban warfare mentioned above.  The locals that were there before them are currently known as the Ubaid culture.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on September 13, 2015, 01:20:10
This (http://bit.ly/1UOUmKG) got done pretty quickly, even with an election campaign under way ....
Quote
The Government of Canada announced today the creation of the Syria Emergency Relief Fund.

The Government will match every eligible dollar donated by individual Canadians to registered Canadian charities in response to the impact of the conflict in Syria, up to $100 million, effective immediately and until December 31, 2015.

The Fund will help meet the basic needs of conflict-affected people in the region, as well as in official development assistance-eligible transit countries for refugees. The Government’s contribution to this fund will provide assistance through international and Canadian humanitarian organizations and will meet humanitarian needs such as shelter, food, health and water, as well as protection and emergency education.

To be counted for the purposes of the Syria Emergency Relief Fund, donations from individual Canadians may not exceed $100,000 per individual and must be:
  • Monetary in nature;
  • Made to a registered Canadian charity that is receiving donations in response to the Syria crisis;
  • Specifically earmarked for response to the Syria crisis;
  • Made between September 12 and December 31, 2015;
  • Used by the registered charity receiving the donation in support of the humanitarian response to the impact of the Syria crisis; and
  • Declared by the registered charity receiving the donation to DFATD.
Since January 2012, Canada has committed $503.5 million in international humanitarian assistance funding in response to the Syria crisis.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Halifax Tar on September 13, 2015, 14:27:53
Well big Rick has an answer:

Rick Hillier says military can help bring in 50,000 refugees by Christmas

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-rick-hillier-refugees-military-christmas-1.3225732

The Canadian Forces could play a key role in helping to bring at least 50,000 Syrian refugees — far more than the government is planning — to Canada by Christmas, retired general Rick Hillier says.

"We've got these incredible leaders in the Canadian Forces, across the RCMP and many other places in our nation who are ready to step up," he said in an interview with Rosemary Barton on CBC News Network's Power & Politics.

Hillier, the former chief of the defence staff, called for the government to bring in at least 50,000 Syrian refugees over the next three months, a figure he called realistic. <more at link>
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on September 13, 2015, 14:51:23
Well big Rick has an answer:

Rick Hillier says military can help bring in 50,000 refugees by Christmas

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-rick-hillier-refugees-military-christmas-1.3225732

The Canadian Forces could play a key role in helping to bring at least 50,000 Syrian refugees — far more than the government is planning — to Canada by Christmas, retired general Rick Hillier says ....
We know the CAF can, the debate is whether they should.

I guess we'll see October 20th ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on September 13, 2015, 14:55:46
I really hope that in all this "Bleeding Heart, knee jerk," political grandstanding on the part of some, they have a plan to not allow this to happen here:

(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fconservativepost.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2F11999052_1529876560636157_7109291482299806963_n.jpg&hash=8a990fc609896e3d2ee293320e6fdc17)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Halifax Tar on September 13, 2015, 15:03:50
I really hope that in all this "Bleeding Heart, knee jerk," political grandstanding on the part of some, they have a plan to not allow this to happen here:

(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fconservativepost.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2F11999052_1529876560636157_7109291482299806963_n.jpg&hash=8a990fc609896e3d2ee293320e6fdc17)

Link to the story behind the photo ?
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: George Wallace on September 13, 2015, 17:29:50
Link to the story behind the photo ?

The photo is of Muslims clashing with German Polizei (back a few years ago according to another site member who says they researched it, but gave no links).  It is not relevant that the photo was not taken two minutes ago or not.  What is relevant, is that there already exists a problem with Muslims migrants in many Western nations, and it is only expanding at a rate far larger than it has been in the last decade.  This migration has been in the news for quite some time.  Now that it now has numbers in the millions, it is suddenly news worthy for ALL the WORLD'S MSM.  The current solution of putting them all on Social Assistance in ethnic ghettos only creates a breeding ground for crime and violence. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chris Pook on September 13, 2015, 17:57:19
Riots Canadians Have Known -  Link (http://ca.askmen.com/top_10/entertainment/top-10-canadian-riots.html)

1971 - Vancouver - 1000 Potheads in Gastown
2008 - Montreal - Canadiens Fans because they won
2002 - Montreal - Concordia over Netanyahu appearance
1919 - Winnipeg - General Strike
1994 - Vancouver - Canucks Fans because they lost
1992 - Montreal - Guns n Roses Fans riot because
2001 - Quebec - 3rd Summit of the Americas
1969 - Montreal - Sir George Williams (Concordia) riot over racism
1955 - Montreal - Rocket Richard riot
1993 - Montreal - Canadiens Fans because they won

Some others

2010 - Toronto - G20 protests
1933 - Toronto - Christie Pits riots
1935 - Regina - Labour riots
1992 - Toronto - Yonge Street riots over racism
1913 - Vancouver Island - Coal Miners riots.


Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Retired AF Guy on September 13, 2015, 18:18:34
Interesting article from the Toronto Star of all places, where the author, Martin Regg Cohn, believes that this ongoing refugee crisis may be just the beginning of something that will become normal. Re-produced under the usual caveats of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Some hard truths no one wants to hear on refugees: Cohn

We need to open our hearts to the latest wave of Syrian refugees, but we also need to open our minds to what lies ahead.

No matter where Canadians stand on the latest refugee crisis, they can probably agree on a few simple truths.

First, no one wants to just stand on the sidelines. Canadians want to do something — anything — to help refugees escaping Syria’s civil war if only someone will lead the way.

Second, the Conservative government’s actions — and inaction — don’t stand up. At a time of global crisis and domestic clamour, a heartless prime minister and a hapless immigration minister have lost credibility, utterly.

Canadians everywhere — everyone, it seems, except the federal government — are moving into that political vacuum. A lack of leadership and an absence of empathy have left the field wide open for others to respond decisively at every level of government, and especially at ground level.

Premier Kathleen Wynne unveiled an ambitious $10.5 million program Saturday funded entirely by the provincial government to speed resettlement of 10,000 refugees. Across the partisan divide — from Saskatchewan’s Premier Brad Wall (a right winger) to B.C.’s Christy Clark and Quebec’s Philippe Couillard (both Liberals) — other leaders have taken action. Mayor John Tory also moved quickly to spearhead community support in Toronto.

By getting bogged down in excuses, the federal government failed to heed a fundamental truth: Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.
Here’s another truth: While this is no ordinary crisis, it may be the new normal.
Waves of refugees fleeing peril or migrants escaping poverty will not subside anytime soon. Mass movements of displaced people have been with us since the dawn of history and are in our future. The Syrian civil war started five years ago and produced five million refugees before the world woke up to a photo of a child’s corpse on a beach.

It is admirable that Canadians are responding with open arms to a seemingly short-term refugee crisis. But it would be naive not to ask what happens when the short term becomes long term.

During a decade as a foreign correspondent I saw enough refugees in camps across Asia and the Middle East to understand what experts have warned about for decades: Mass migrations are inevitable, whether caused by war, water shortages, poverty or climate change.

An urgent humanitarian response is only human, but it is not enough. We must also reduce the causes of mass migrations (conflict and chaos), and avoid making those migrations even more dangerous (by tempting people to start a stampede) because people will die in the crush, drown on the high seas, suffocate in sealed trucks.

It is too easy to utter bromides about open borders — libertarians and humanitarians are quick to say let everyone in — when we know the knock-on effects could make it worse. How? By encouraging a mad dash that will stoke people smuggling; by creating massive bottlenecks that will delay speedy resettlement; by displacing legitimate refugees who will inevitably be crowded out by the rush of those with more resources to make the leap across an ocean or a continent.

What about the genuine victims of war who languish for years in refugee camps, lacking the connections or credentials to be transported to the front of the line? When we rush to embrace boat people, do we not bear at least some responsibility for rewarding them for taking reckless risks? Yes, many are desperate, but it would be disingenuous to claim that they are all fleeing war for when so many are undeniably economic migrants in a hurry.

In the rush to sponsor Syrians to Canada, relatively little is said about supporting the infrastructure of refugee processing handled by the UNHCR in countries bordering Syria. While it may generate fewer headlines at home, not enough thought is being given to the more affordable, sustainable, realistic (if less idealistic) alternative of funding camps closer to war zones, so that refugees can be repatriated more rapidly if those conflicts subside.

We need to open our hearts to the latest wave of Syrian refugees, but we also need to open our minds to what lies ahead. The crisis is unlikely to be temporary. It cannot be resolved with a few thousand more sponsorships and a few million more dollars, as important as those contributions are.

The federal Tories have missed the boat on the latest wave of boat people, but many well-intentioned do-gooder’s have been selling us a bill of goods about the refugee crisis. We need to start thinking about what comes next.

It is good to be principled, but we must also be practical. Mass migrations are at the intersection of war, geopolitics, economics, logistics and human smuggling. They defy easy answers. The reality is that refugee fatigue will set in anew, because the flood never ends — it merely fades from the front pages. What then?
Martin Regg Cohn’s Ontario politics column appears Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. mcohn@thestar.ca , Twitter: @reggcohn

 Article Link (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/09/12/some-hard-truths-no-one-wants-to-hear-on-refugees-cohn.html)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Dimsum on September 13, 2015, 18:37:43
Interesting article from the Toronto Star of all places, where the author, Martin Regg Cohn, believes that this ongoing refugee crisis may be just the beginning of something that will become normal. Re-produced under the usual caveats of the Copyright Act.

 Article Link (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/09/12/some-hard-truths-no-one-wants-to-hear-on-refugees-cohn.html)

Wow - I had to double-check the link that it was indeed the Toronto Star that printed it.  Good article and on point. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: ModlrMike on September 13, 2015, 18:40:37
But what's in a name? I notice that the press in Europe is almost universal in calling them migrants, where the press here is almost universal in calling them refugees.

Does it matter? Does one require more urgent intervention than the other?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on September 13, 2015, 18:51:43
But what's in a name? I notice that the press in Europe is almost universal in calling them migrants, where the press here is almost universal in calling them refugees.

Does it matter? Does one require more urgent intervention than the other?

I would suggest that the migrants are moving for economic reasons, as opposed to the refugees fleeing from persecution from an ethnic or religious majority.  When I see a Pakistan being interviewed by the media (probably because he could speak English and no translation was needed), I would say he was a migrant.  The migrants from Libya and other North African nations, coming from Eritrea, Ethiopia and other African nations; I would call migrants.  Christians, Kurds and other non-Islamic religions fleeing persecution in Syria, Iraq, etc.; I would call refugees.

Next question:  Security Checks.  Can anyone explain to me how any Security Checks can be done on any of these people, refugee or migrant, if they are, in the majority of cases, from Failed states?  How does anyone in our political scene expect such a check to be done in less than three months?  Only solution is to blindly bring in all and sundry and cross our fingers, we did not allow too many criminal or other disruptive persons in.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Rifleman62 on September 13, 2015, 20:33:40
Quote
This got done pretty quickly, even with an election campaign under way ....
Quote

    The Government of Canada announced today the creation of the Syria Emergency Relief Fund.

    The Government will match every eligible dollar donated by individual Canadians to registered Canadian charities in response to the impact of the conflict in Syria, up to $100 million, effective immediately and until December 31, 2015.

Now we will see if Canadians put their money where their mouth is according to certain political heads and the media party. All the media who used this migration as a sob story should be first up to the donations table.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Fishbone Jones on September 13, 2015, 20:57:35
Riots Canadians Have Known -  Link (http://ca.askmen.com/top_10/entertainment/top-10-canadian-riots.html)

1971 - Vancouver - 1000 Potheads in Gastown
2008 - Montreal - Canadiens Fans because they won
2002 - Montreal - Concordia over Netanyahu appearance
1919 - Winnipeg - General Strike
1994 - Vancouver - Canucks Fans because they lost
1992 - Montreal - Guns n Roses Fans riot because
2001 - Quebec - 3rd Summit of the Americas
1969 - Montreal - Sir George Williams (Concordia) riot over racism
1955 - Montreal - Rocket Richard riot
1993 - Montreal - Canadiens Fans because they won

Some others

2010 - Toronto - G20 protests
1933 - Toronto - Christie Pits riots
1935 - Regina - Labour riots
1992 - Toronto - Yonge Street riots over racism
1913 - Vancouver Island - Coal Miners riots.

Except most of these (modern ones anyway) were not trying to change the way we live, change our constitution or marginalize our religions. They were simply drunken hooligans.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on September 14, 2015, 16:48:03
I'm not referencing this video (https://video-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xfp1/v/t42.1790-2/11894040_851395565005706_116879154_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjQ2NiwicmxhIjoxMDgxfQ%3D%3D&rl=466&vabr=259&oh=2dbfc9416f63b2d922f7bae702420c87&oe=55F7412E) which I got third hand, via social media, to express my anger at the acts of desecrating the graves of our war dead. I cannot vouch for its provenance, nor did the group which posted it. At a guess it is from the Middle East, perhaps Iraq, likely a few years ago, maybe it was a "protest" against British military actions in Iraq. I'm pretty sure this is a Commonwealth War Graves cemetery ~ see about 3' 05".

What this video (https://video-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xfp1/v/t42.1790-2/11894040_851395565005706_116879154_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjQ2NiwicmxhIjoxMDgxfQ%3D%3D&rl=466&vabr=259&oh=2dbfc9416f63b2d922f7bae702420c87&oe=55F7412E) illustrates, to me, is the level of rage, frustration, hatred, based on generations of humiliation, that exists in the region, the Middle East, towards us. And now we propose to bring tens of thousands of them here, to be equally humiliated and frustrated ... is that right? Rick Hillier says the CF can help to bring 50,000 here; with all due respect to the retired CDS: that's crazy!
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chris Pook on September 14, 2015, 20:26:12
ick Hillier says the CF can help to bring 50,000 here; with all due respect to the retired CDS: that's crazy!

Under the "Golden Oldie" file - Operation Haven in Kurdish Iraq - 1991.

I prefer this solution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UJWAIjpWfs
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: Hamish Seggie on September 15, 2015, 19:38:56
I'm no expert in refugee crisis management, BUT if Canada is to accept x number of refugees, I agree with the PM. They must be properly screened.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: Jarnhamar on September 15, 2015, 19:58:22

Take on 10'000 refugees without screening them? Absolutely retarded.

Quote
Rome (CNN)Muslims who were among migrants trying to get from Libya to Italy in a boat this week threw 12 fellow passengers overboard -- killing them -- because the 12 were Christians, Italian police said Thursday.
Ya that's really what we need in Canada.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: milnews.ca on September 16, 2015, 07:30:17
Interesting - former Ministers and DM's say the PM could do more, even during an election (http://bit.ly/1KfCHZS) - highlights mine:
Quote
.... As former federal ministers and deputy ministers, appreciative of what it takes to translate political announcements into realities, we urge Mr. Harper to think big and not let the exigencies of the election campaign diminish the call to action. There is nothing in the caretaker convention (http://bit.ly/1TaiThH), followed during election campaigns, to stop government from responding to a crisis – particularly when there is all-party support.

Mr. Harper can turn to his professional public servants with their past successful history of managing Bosnian, Ugandan, Kosovo, and Indochinese mass movement of refugees. He can ask them to determine Canada`s maximum capacity for absorption of individuals now streaming into Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan and Europe. Under the Public Policy provisions of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, the government can launch a significant new humanitarian Syrian refugee resettlement program. Its goal should be to increase the overall Canadian commitment to numbers of refugees and significantly simplify administrative burdens for both private sponsors and immigration officials.

Mr. Harper can ask officials in the Departments of Finance, Treasury Board, Citizenship and Immigration, Defence and Foreign Affairs to ascertain the financial and human resources required and set those aside. The public record of the contributions of the previous waves of past refugee settlement programs demonstrate the long-term returns to Canada from what may, in the short term, look like significant costs. The government can engage with provincial governments, who are also committing resources, to maximize the effectiveness of all efforts. It is short term investments which will be critical to the success of the program: there will be ample payback for an adequate number of visa and security officers in the field for refugee selection, for professionals to expedite medical clearances and security assessments, and for transportation costs and staging areas in Canada when the refugees arrive. Pending full program implementation, the government can ensure ”all hands on deck” in fast-tracking existing applications, particularly those with family connections in Canada ....
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on September 16, 2015, 08:57:08
Interesting - former Ministers and DM's say the PM could do more, even during an election (http://bit.ly/1KfCHZS) - highlights mine:


While I agree with the authors of the open letter that "security cannot be an excuse for inertia," it, security, can and must be a very high priority in deciding who ~ refugee, migrant, tourist or student ~ is allowed to enter Canada for any reason. A government that puts the welfare of these unfortunate people ahead of the security of Canada would be derelict in its duties to both.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: milnews.ca on September 16, 2015, 10:45:59

While I agree with the authors of the open letter that "security cannot be an excuse for inertia," it, security, can and must be a very high priority in deciding who ~ refugee, migrant, tourist or student ~ is allowed to enter Canada for any reason. A government that puts the welfare of these unfortunate people ahead of the security of Canada would be derelict in its duties to both.
Just curious - what's your read re:  how much prep the bureaucrats can really get done during an election.  Those signing the op-ed piece suggest a lot, and I'm guessing someone's doing some work on briefings for transition in the event there is one, but things like "launch(ing) a significant new humanitarian Syrian refugee resettlement program" seem quite a leap when you don't have a Parliament, even compared to this (http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?mthd=index&crtr.page=2&nid=1016519) announced during the campaign.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on September 16, 2015, 11:04:05
Just curious - what's your read re:  how much prep the bureaucrats can really get done during an election.  Those signing the op-ed piece suggest a lot, and I'm guessing someone's doing some work on briefings for transition in the event there is one, but things like "launch(ing) a significant new humanitarian Syrian refugee resettlement program" seem quite a leap when you don't have a Parliament, even compared to this (http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?mthd=index&crtr.page=2&nid=1016519) announced during the campaign.


I'm pretty sure the authors of the letter are correct: there is a lot of work that bureaucrats can do, election or not, to prepare for any reasonable contingency, work that will not have any political impact, even if it is made public. The more important question, for me, is: for just what contingencies should those bureaucrats prepare?

Remember, also, please, that the sitting government, in the middle of an election campaign, has announced a spending programme aimed, specifically, at this "event." Messers Mulcair and Trudeau could argue that the government is using its office to advance its own re-election chances ... but I don't think they will. The government has taken reasonable, caretaker steps in the face of a perceived "crisis," the (unwritten) Constitution doesn't seem to have been offended.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: milnews.ca on September 16, 2015, 12:45:03
The more important question, for me, is: for just what contingencies should those bureaucrats prepare?
:nod:  Especially given the range of options being offered by the contenders should they get the reins.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: Brad Sallows on September 16, 2015, 13:25:36
>Under the Public Policy provisions of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, the government can launch a significant new humanitarian Syrian refugee resettlement program

Why only Syrians?  Why not apportion the number of places the estimate determines can be made available among refugees worldwide and ensure Canada is not trying to digest lumps of monoculture?
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: Chris Pook on September 16, 2015, 13:36:30
Inertia no.  Action yes.  Defuse the situation at a distance from Canadian borders then manage the flow of immigrants.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: Jed on September 16, 2015, 13:49:27
Inertia no.  Action yes.  Defuse the situation at a distance from Canadian borders then manage the flow of immigrants.

Now that is a big picture comment I can agree with. Now we can get to work on the phasing details.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)
Post by: milnews.ca on September 20, 2015, 09:17:53
Note to people working in DND - yes, they CAN tell when you update a Wikipedia page - original in French (http://bit.ly/1MkaO3B)/excerpt from Google Translated (http://bit.ly/1KZcGkQ) version below:
Quote
.... The IP address 131 137 245 208 has indeed recently made changes on a Wikipedia page on refugees in the Syrian civil war. In one part showing the number of refugees in different countries, the vandal has written that "there are more than 300 families with very large dildos" in Argentina.

Thirty minutes later, another user has deleted these changes.

The Department of National Defence told 45eNord.ca he was taking "very seriously these allegations" and that the amendment "does not represent the views of the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces."

The chain of command has been informed of these facts and an investigation was ordered under DAOD 6002-2 on "legitimate Use of Internet, intranet of the defense, computers and other information system" ....
Stay classy ....  :facepalm:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on October 30, 2015, 07:03:06
Well big Rick has an answer:

Rick Hillier says military can help bring in 50,000 refugees by Christmas

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-rick-hillier-refugees-military-christmas-1.3225732

The Canadian Forces could play a key role in helping to bring at least 50,000 Syrian refugees — far more than the government is planning — to Canada by Christmas, retired general Rick Hillier says ....
Uh, maybe not (http://globalnews.ca/news/2307118/trudeau-wants-25000-more-syrian-refugees-in-canada-by-jan-1-not-realistic-say-advocates/)?
Quote
During the election, Liberal leader Justin Trudeau promised that his government would bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by the end of 2015.

But it’s a tall order, say refugee advocates. Though they applaud the idea of vastly increasing Canada’s intake of Syrian refugees, they wonder if the timeline is a bit too tight.

“People are suggesting if necessary take a bit longer and do it better, rather than just bringing people here and not having things ready for them,” said Janet Dench, executive director of the Canadian Council for Refugees ....
More (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/logistical-cracks-emerge-in-liberal-pledge-to-settle-25000-syrian-refugees-by-end-of-2015) ....
Quote
.... Canada currently takes about 7,500 government assisted refugees each year, who are typically met by non-governmental organizations whose staff help with orientation and and place them in temporary housing, either in reception centres or even cheap hotels.

If that number is to be boosted to 25,000 over the next two months, these organizations will know what needs to be done, but their capacity to do it will be strained to breaking, said Janet Dench, executive director of the Canadian Council for Refugees.

“It’s already a challenge to find housing suitable for them, so that’s why groups are saying ‘Yes, let’s do it, but give us enough time to get the things in place for people to arrive,’” she said.

She said Canada’s response on government assistance for Syrians fleeing their homeland has so far been “poor” and “diametrically opposed” to Germany’s, though Germany does not offer a private sponsorship program like Canada’s.

A massive shift in that attitude would certainly require political will from a new Trudeau government, but also probably some serious military assistance, especially with emergency housing in winter months, such as on air bases ....
Still, retiree hope springs eternal (http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/technically-feasible-for-trudeau-to-meet-refugees-goal-rcaf-vets-1.2634413) ....
Quote
Two retired leaders of the Royal Canadian Air Force say it is “technically” possible for Prime Minister-designate Justin Trudeau to reach his goal of resettling 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year.

However, they say a successful mission would require fast action and a full-fledged military response.

“I haven’t seen a plan, I’ve just seen an intent. But it’s technically feasible, if enough resources and enough commitment is made and enough co-operation is found,” Lt.-Gen. Ken Pennie, former head of the Royal Canadian Air Force, told CTV’s Power Play on Thursday.

That sentiment was echoed by retired Brig.-Gen. Gaston Cloutier, the former wing commander at 8 Wing Trenton, who said the plan is “possible” from “a purely technical perspective.”

“From my perspective, the only organization that can deal with such an influx of people is the Canadian Forces, so the entire Canadian Forces … would have to be involved,” he said ...."
Meanwhile, serving CAF folks are getting 'er done (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadian-forces-to-draft-plan-to-help-resettle-syrian-refugees/article27041233/) ....
Quote
The Canadian Armed Forces is scrambling to determine how many Syrian refugees could be temporarily accommodated at military bases as they draft plans to help the incoming Liberal government fulfill a campaign promise to bring 25,000 asylum seekers here by Jan. 1.

Ottawa is considering private airplanes to bring the refugees to Canada. Military aircraft are available, and the CC-150 Airbus Polaris could bring as many as 190 per flight, but Forces officials say it is hard to beat the cheaper, high-density seating of a chartered wide-body aircraft.

The Trudeau Liberals, meanwhile, are hoping to tap the wave of popular support that washed them into office to enlist more Canadians to sponsor Syrian refugees privately. This would help defray the cost to Ottawa of settling 25,000 newcomers.

Sources say the Liberals will call on mayors and other politicians in coming days to facilitate the arrival of refugees on their home turf after some prominent politicians pledged to sponsor Syrian refugees in early September.

Refugees will need to be screened, transported to Canada and housed somewhere until they can be processed and transferred to the care of provincial authorities and sponsor groups ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chris Pook on October 30, 2015, 10:12:28
Here's a thought:

Declare one of Canada's Arctic Islands as an Extra-Territorial possession.  Establish a refugee facility there.  Invite all-comers.  Consider it a Canadian version of Christmas Island with the added benefit that it is close to the North Pole and Santa.

In a generation or two they can request to join the federation as a territory like Nunavut.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: c_canuk on October 30, 2015, 15:03:46
Sounds like a reasonable solution if enough funds were spent to make it hospitable while they are guided on integration into our society, however, the wailing and gnashing of the teeth from SJW would make it political suicide, even if it was just a year to screen, educate and integrate.

It's still a good idea, just have to set it up somewhere more hospitable, though the SJW will refer to it as a camp no doubt... I suppose it's more likely to be seen as a good idea if the LPC is at the helm rather than CPC.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: YZT580 on October 30, 2015, 18:24:26
An integration centre is a great idea that will not pass due to earlier history.  Grosse Island served as just such a facility in the 19th century and its memories will not allow the concept to be tried again.  Besides, these folks won't even accept water if it isn't in the correctly labelled container so they certainly won't tolerate being settled anywhere but near or in civilization   Expect riots if such an attempt is made.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on October 30, 2015, 18:34:07
An integration centre is a great idea that will not pass due to earlier history.  Grosse Island served as just such a facility in the 19th century and its memories will not allow the concept to be tried again.  Besides, these folks won't even accept water if it isn't in the correctly labelled container so they certainly won't tolerate being settled anywhere but near or in civilization   Expect riots if such an attempt is made.

So, you are telling us that they are being civilized in their demands?  Excuse me for being less than accepting in anything other than offering humanitarian aid as we would deem the norm.  If they are such that they do not want to assimilate or integrate into our society, then please do not come here demanding the world of us.

It is bloody ridiculous to demand that we create a "Halab" policy for ungrateful peoples.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on October 30, 2015, 18:44:32
Here's a thought:

Declare one of Canada's Arctic Islands as an Extra-Territorial possession.  Establish a refugee facility there.  Invite all-comers.  Consider it a Canadian version of Christmas Island with the added benefit that it is close to the North Pole and Santa.

In a generation or two they can request to join the federation as a territory like Nunavut.

Are there not existing Barracks in Goose Bay that are sitting empty?  Would it be feasible to build infrastructure in Churchill to house, process and provide medical needs to the large numbers promised, which would further develop the North and provide infrastucture that Churchill and surrounding settlements could use well after the migrant issue is over?  Unlike Southern locations, the demand for Security forces would be minimal.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: GAP on October 30, 2015, 20:37:44
Nah, Churchill has little in the way of excess housing. Use Kapyong.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on October 31, 2015, 06:01:42
Nah, Churchill has little in the way of excess housing. Use Kapyong.

Ship in ACCO trailers.  They were good enough for PMQ's on the Pine Tree Line.  They could be used after the "crisis" to encourage more to move North, or as Temp Qtrs for organizations involved in business or leisure in the North, or moved to any other location that would need them.

The problem with these migrants (NOT those that are sponsored by family members.) is that they are not happy with what is being given to them and are inclined to wander off the environs that are set up for their administration, disappearing into the population.  Placing them in any location within a metropolitan area is only asking for problems.  From experience in Germany, when they accepted Russian, Polish and other immigrants who had claims to German heritage after the Wall came down, the crime rate in the locations that they were settled rose 500%.  (Experience from 1990's in Lahr/Offenburg region.)  There is a good possibility this experience will be repeated.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Altair on October 31, 2015, 23:05:02
The "Oktoberfest" speil was all an unknown blogger in the UK, with not known identity, who raised a bogus "demand".  It has NO credible authenticity.
Why let facts gets in the way of a good fear mongering?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on October 31, 2015, 23:11:56
Why let facts gets in the way of a good fear mongering?
Wasnt that the NDP and Liberal supporters entire set of campaign messaging for the past election?

Being weary of the intentions of people who are violently trying to move from safe country to safe country is not fear mongering. If they were fleeing fighting in Syria they should be happy in whatever EU nation they got to.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on November 01, 2015, 00:55:46
So I'm not opposed to allowing Refugees in to the country.  I had a great argument with my significant other about this today though.  I said that I would be willing to allow refugees into Canada on the condition they stay with Canadian families that are willing to house them while they await a residency claim.  I said I would be more than willing to sponsor a family and that they could even live in my house as long as they agreed to follow my rules.

My significant other was vehemently opposed to this of course.  Her thoughts were that they should be allowed to come here but she wants nothing to do with them and wouldn't want them living in her house.  I disagreed with her and said if we are willing to accept these people in to our country, we should be willing to accept them in to our homes.  I think the average Canadian wants that feel good moment of helping someone,my it doesn't want to actually do anything to earn it.  If we can't accept someone in to our home, why. Should they be allowed to settle here?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on November 01, 2015, 06:57:28
So I'm not opposed to allowing Refugees in to the country.  I had a great argument with my significant other about this today though.  I said that I would be willing to allow refugees into Canada on the condition they stay with Canadian families that are willing to house them while they await a residency claim.  I said I would be more than willing to sponsor a family and that they could even live in my house as long as they agreed to follow my rules.

My significant other was vehemently opposed to this of course.  Her thoughts were that they should be allowed to come here but she wants nothing to do with them and wouldn't want them living in her house.  I disagreed with her and said if we are willing to accept these people in to our country, we should be willing to accept them in to our homes.  I think the average Canadian wants that feel good moment of helping someone,my it doesn't want to actually do anything to earn it.  If we can't accept someone in to our home, why. Should they be allowed to settle here?

I agree.  If you do not have the trust in the 'guest' to live in your home, then why be hypocritical about it and allow them into the country and have an affect on other Canadians peace of mind.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 01, 2015, 08:33:58
I think the average Canadian wants that feel good moment of helping someone,my it doesn't want to actually do anything to earn it.
I think you've hit both ends of the "committment spectrum" - "so happy to have 'em that I'll put some up" to "let 'em in as long as they don't disturb my chunk of the universe".

Not to mention the extension of the spectrum to cover the "none are too many" camp.

If you do not have the trust in the 'guest' to live in your home, then why be hypocritical about it and allow them into the country and have an affect on other Canadians peace of mind.
NIMBY defined right there.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 01, 2015, 10:13:15
As I have made clear, I think, in  these fora, I believe that our, global, response to refugees is, to be charitable, madness.

I believe that most legitimate refugees want to return to their homes and our second priority should be to help them to do that.

Our first priority ought to be to make them safe (and reasonably comfortable) as close to home as possible.

Priority 1 costs money: to persuade neighbouring states to accept refugees; to build and staff camps with schools and hospitals and, and, and ... and, when the camps in the regions are full to overflowing, to build new camps farther away. But, camps from which almost all the refugees will, eventually return to their homes, not new homes in far away, foreign lands.

Priority 2 costs even more: making the place from which refugees fled safe, may, likely will require concerted, swift, violent, large scale military action.

But doing 1 and 2, in fairly short order, is the right answer ... doing what we (Canada) proposes is more madness.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: SeaKingTacco on November 01, 2015, 10:53:40
My take?

What is being proposed by the incoming government is not a refugee scheme. A vanishingly small percentage of the 25k that they propose to import from the Middle East will ever return home.

What is being proposed is taking 25k hastily screened people and (effectively) moving them to the front of the immigration queue. I would hope that the quality of the screening remains high, but I have worked around bureaucracies long enough to accept that there will be all sorts of unforeseen second and third order effects.

interesting times....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 01, 2015, 13:05:42
good fear mongering?

Lame.  Accusing someone of fear mongering is ripped from the same page book as calling someone a nazi in a political argument.  If you don't think there's valid crap to be afraid of out there you obviously haven't turned on the news or better yet seen it for yourself.  Research some of the problems associated with mass-relocating refugees.



Being weary of the intentions of people who are violently trying to move from safe country to safe country is not fear mongering. If they were fleeing fighting in Syria they should be happy in whatever EU nation they got to.

Yup. There's videos and news articles about them refusing to be located to countries they feel don't provide enough hand outs and free crap, to be blunt.  Country shopping.

So I'm not opposed to allowing Refugees in to the country.  I had a great argument with my significant other about this today though.  I said that I would be willing to allow refugees into Canada on the condition they stay with Canadian families that are willing to house them while they await a residency claim.  I said I would be more than willing to sponsor a family and that they could even live in my house as long as they agreed to follow my rules.

My significant other was vehemently opposed to this of course.  Her thoughts were that they should be allowed to come here but she wants nothing to do with them and wouldn't want them living in her house.  I disagreed with her and said if we are willing to accept these people in to our country, we should be willing to accept them in to our homes.  I think the average Canadian wants that feel good moment of helping someone,my it doesn't want to actually do anything to earn it.  If we can't accept someone in to our home, why. Should they be allowed to settle here?

I think this is the best summery I've seen or will see on the issue.

People want to feel good and tell themselves they've helped out the down trodden but it's another story when their own lives are directly impacted.
Will the new Prime minister be taking in one of these families?




One of my friends was at the same base that took in those refugees years ago.  Lots of stories stories of what happened never hit the news (he said soldiers were basically told to STFU about what was going on).  I do remember there were instances of them bringing in diseases including a big TB scare if I recall correctly.

I agree with SeaKingTacco, they're not looking to return home. Why would they?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on November 01, 2015, 13:25:01

Yup. There's videos and news articles about them refusing to be located to countries they feel don't provide enough hand outs and free crap, to be blunt.  Country shopping.



Once they do that, they are no longer refugees in my books; but "Economic Migrants".

Harper's Government was working for three years to bring in families of Canadians of Syrian descent, doing the proper screening and ensuring that they would have the family resources and assistance to integrate into Canadian society.  There is no MAGIC WAND that can safely do that in two months and ensure that the "Economic Migrants" that Trudeau wants to bring in will not be a burden on our resources and Welfare System.  I will not dwell on security risks.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 01, 2015, 14:00:24
Once they do that, they are no longer refugees in my books; but "Economic Migrants".

Harper's Government was working for three years to bring in families of Canadians of Syrian descent, doing the proper screening and ensuring that they would have the family resources and assistance to integrate into Canadian society.  There is no MAGIC WAND that can safely do that in two months and ensure that the "Economic Migrants" that Trudeau wants to bring in will not be a burden on our resources and Welfare System.  I will not dwell on security risks.


Very true, but ...

     1. Canadians were promised just that wand in the last election campaign;

     2. Canadians voted for the guys and gals who promised to do magic tricks; and

     3. Watch for the emphasized word to be sacrificed in the name of political expedience.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 01, 2015, 14:28:46
Germany
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUARxP2NSI

Greece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj8hpKx_oOk

Hungary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDMdtbfMnVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl16QDk2sig



I'm actually pretty excited about this. 

1. My CCOI course was canceled. I'm still course wait listed so I'm hoping I get another chance at the course.
2. I hate flying, I'm thinking we'll be able to collect danger pay at home? (minus dudes crying because clerks get the same danger pay of course)
3. Won't have to miss my family for 6 months at a time.

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chief Engineer on November 01, 2015, 14:43:42
Germany
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUARxP2NSI

Greece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj8hpKx_oOk

Hungary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDMdtbfMnVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl16QDk2sig



I'm actually pretty excited about this. 

1. My CCOI course was canceled because the army didn't have (couldn't afford?) the ammo to run it. I'm still course wait listed so I'm hoping I get another chance at the course.
2. I hate flying, I'm thinking we'll be able to collect danger pay at home? (minus dudes crying because clerks get the same danger pay of course)
3. Won't have to miss my family for 6 months at a time.

If we open the floodgates is this what we will expect here or will we cave into them and give them everything they want?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 01, 2015, 15:02:29
If we open the floodgates is this what we will expect here or will we cave into them and give them everything they want?

Good question.
Given the numerous examples of our LEOs ignoring latent crimes being committed like barricading roads, harassing travelers, trespassing etc.. by some First nations members I suspect the latter. I can envision our LEOs being told to back off in order to avoid bad publicity or images like in those videos I posted.  If 50 first nations members are allowed to blockade highways and national rail ways what can 25'000 refugees do?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chief Engineer on November 01, 2015, 15:19:48
Good question.
Given the numerous examples of our LEOs ignoring latent crimes being committed like barricading roads, harassing travelers, trespassing etc.. by some First nations members I suspect the latter. I can envision our LEOs being told to back off in order to avoid bad publicity or images like in those videos I posted.  If 50 first nations members are allowed to blockade highways and national rail ways what can 25'000 refugees do?

Problem is I suspect we have a lot more than 25'000 before long. I'm all about helping people however I would like to see these people be placed in a safe area and returned to their home country when and if their situation stabilizes. The social system cannot afford this. I wonder where all the bleeding hearts will be when start to have incidents like in Germany and the rest of Europe.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on November 01, 2015, 15:49:07
Problem is I suspect we have a lot more than 25'000 before long. I'm all about helping people however I would like to see these people be placed in a safe area and returned to their home country when and if their situation stabilizes. The social system cannot afford this. I wonder where all the bleeding hearts will be when start to have incidents like in Germany and the rest of Europe.

Walking around some of the streets in German cities right now is like walking around a street in a foreign land that is NOT Germany.  The numbers of Muslims and others from not only the Middle East, but South West Asia, Pakistan, Turkey and North Africa totally outnumber the German population. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 01, 2015, 16:04:59
Don't worry, we're likely going to dump them into military bases. We'll still need ID to get onto the base, but the Syrians won't need a background check to live there.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on November 01, 2015, 16:30:00
Nice spot out near Five Fingers.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 01, 2015, 16:40:28
I recommended we use the urban ops sites, plenty of empty buildings.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Fishbone Jones on November 01, 2015, 16:44:34
I recommended we use the urban ops sites, plenty of empty buildings.

Some will probably feel at home with the bullet marks on the walls and soldiers doing dynamic entries all over the place.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Halifax Tar on November 01, 2015, 16:50:18
Interesting times indeed.  I fear for my children and future grandchildren. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Ditch on November 01, 2015, 23:16:05
Winnipeg South is ready and waiting - chain link fences included.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: captloadie on November 02, 2015, 10:22:17
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.   

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on November 02, 2015, 10:30:32
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divide them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

I wasn't concerned that any of the boat people "might" be sleeper agents, or want to commit acts I would consider terrorism when they arrived here.  The only concerns I had with the boat people was in getting into a traffic accident with one.  There were a few examples of them stabbing the poor ******* they collided with.  And their winter driving capabilities were down right scary for the first winter or two.  Otherwise, they've fitted in nicely. 

I have no doubt there will be those members of the Syrian refugees that will make outstanding, excellent immigrants and can bring things to the table for the benefit of this country.  I have no issues with these people coming and quite frankly welcome their arrival as we do need immigrants.  I want the immigrants who come to this country will be of a benefit to this country, not a security concern or drain on resources.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Strike on November 02, 2015, 10:37:46
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

The difference is that this migrant group is not solely from Syria, which is the cause du jour of the incoming government when it comes to refugees, but from many other countries as well looking to specifically country shop. Go talk to your int shop.  I'm sure they can show you the numbers.

On top of that, when the Vietnamese and Kosovars came during their respective crisis, it was carefully managed and very specific to those countires.  Because of the country shopping going on, people are worried that the same thing is going to happen here and, until they are shown otherwise with a set plan that will ensure the refugees being accepted are indeed from Syria, that is what they will believe.

Lack of information tends to breed fear. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on November 02, 2015, 10:39:18
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

I agree completely.  I've got no problem letting refugees in to the country, I just want to make sure it's done properly and not in some sort of halfassed fashion for short term political points.  I would even consider letting some stay with me. 

I would like to see some smaller communities take these people on.  I think showing them some good old rural Canadian hospitality would be a good introduction to the country.  Would definitely be preferable to throwing them in to an urban ghetto. 

A society should be judged on how it treats the vagrants and least fortunate members.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: captloadie on November 02, 2015, 10:51:03
I agree completely.  I've got no problem letting refugees in to the country, I just want to make sure it's done properly and not in some sort of halfassed fashion for short term political points.  I would even consider letting some stay with me. 

I would like to see some smaller communities take these people on.  I think showing them some good old rural Canadian hospitality would be a good introduction to the country.  Would definitely be preferable to throwing them in to an urban ghetto.  

A society should be judged on how it treats the vagrants and least fortunate members.

I wholeheartedly agree with the highlighted portion. Find smaller communities that can both accept and support these family units. How many small communities have those one or two Vietnamese families that make you wonder, "how in the hell did they end up here running a variety store?"

Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on November 02, 2015, 11:24:10
Personnaly, I have no problems taking in 25,000 real refugees.

My problem is the following: If you take them in hurriedly on the basis that you will do the proper screening after they get into Canada, then can someone tell me HOW and WHERE do you return the ones that fail security screening?

And BTW, captloadie, spreading them evenly on welfare to all provinces, so 2500 per province would bring at least one province's system, PEI, to a breaking point.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: dapaterson on November 02, 2015, 11:42:13
Personnaly, I have no problems taking in 25,000 real refugees.

My problem is the following: If you take them in hurriedly on the basis that you will do the proper screening after they get into Canada, then can someone tell me HOW and WHERE do you return the ones that fail security screening?

And BTW, captloadie, spreading them evenly on welfare to all provinces, so 2500 per province would bring at least one province's system, PEI, to a breaking point.

Well, from what I can understand from the soon to be former prime minister, we have to take an expansive view of PEI and include the Ottawa suburb of Kanata (population 80K) in any discussion of PEI...


(The fallacy of keeping PEI, NS, NB and NL as four distinct provinces is another issue that needs to be addressed; the combined population is low, while the political influence at the federal level is grossly oversized.  And the resulting ongoing federal pandering with EI rules etc has resulted in today's reality in Atlantic Canada)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on November 02, 2015, 12:04:56
Aiming at sacred cows is sure to create a visceral response. Highly unlikely they will offended such well trained voters.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Dimsum on November 02, 2015, 12:19:49
I wholeheartedly agree with the highlighted portion. Find smaller communities that can both accept and support these family units. How many small communities have those one or two Vietnamese families that make you wonder, "how in the hell did they end up here running a variety store?"

Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups.

Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places? 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 02, 2015, 12:20:12
Well, from what I can understand from the soon to be former prime minister, we have to take an expansive view of PEI and include the Ottawa suburb of Kanata (population 80K) in any discussion of PEI...


(The fallacy of keeping PEI, NS, NB and NL as four distinct provinces is another issue that needs to be addressed; the combined population is low, while the political influence at the federal level is grossly oversized.  And the resulting ongoing federal pandering with EI rules etc has resulted in today's reality in Atlantic Canada)

So to be fair and unbiased, if the current wishes of the Atlantic area wish to follow Liberal policies and accept their  entitlements ala Dingwall, they should be willing to accept their apportionment of the incoming Syrian Refugees. (based on provincial apportionment, of course)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on November 02, 2015, 12:47:03
Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places?

They wouldn't settle there but the refugee camps could be set up there and this would represent their initial taste of Canada.  A lot of smaller towns have declining population and have plenty of suitable facilities for this sort of thing (old schools, unused arenas, etc).  A refugee centre could be set up in fairly short order, the military could support this sort of initiative and it would be a good way to get the Army Reserves involved as well.  I would lean on the Army Reserves heavily in this instance as many Reserve Units have deep connections within their respective communities and know which strings to pull to make things happen.

The deal would need to be sweetened of course, perhaps every community handling the refugees would receive a large pot of Federal money, part of which would go towards the refugees and the rest could be used for other projects needed in the community it self.  They would basically receive a subsidy in exchange for looking after the influx of refugees.  Teams of experts could also be surged in to these communities to provide a variety of social services. 

This idea also has an ulterior motive behind it.  This sort of campaign could serve as a very powerful counter-narrative for us to use against our enemies (fundamentalists).  I see it as a sort of IO campaign conducted at the strategic level.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on November 02, 2015, 13:09:17
Have we got a deal for you

http://globalnews.ca/news/1483593/ghost-town-mysteries-the-30-year-slumber-of-kitsault-b-c/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Falls

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/07/15/bradian-bc-ghost-town_n_7805222.html
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 02, 2015, 13:10:49
Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.
1)  That's mostly up to the self-governing doctor groups out there.
2)  As a specialized sub-set of migrants, I'm guessing places would be happy to put up a doc and his/her family to treat NON-refugees in communities aching for an MD.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups.
I remain optimistic, but I don't know if I'd be THAT optimistic ....

Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places?
In previous waves of migration, Canada has said, "we have a job and a place to live for you at a gold mine in Northern Ontario", with a "no" leading to someone else being offered said job/slot.  That, though, was another time ....

A few factors to consider:
-  Are we moving people temporarily or long-term?  (temporary = OK in a smaller place without as many job prospects vs. long-term = need for higher chance of finding longer-term gainful employment)
-  Are we aiming to move them to be near folks already here from "the old country", or to have them learn "the Canadian way" via assimilation/acculturation "cold turkey"?
-  How many refugee/migrants are willing to move to a smaller centre with fewer resources?
-  How many small centres want to take on new folks?

The deal would need to be sweetened of course, perhaps every community handling the refugees would receive a large pot of Federal money, part of which would go towards the refugees and the rest could be used for other projects needed in the community it self. 
That, too, would affect the calculus considerably as well.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 02, 2015, 17:28:38
Oh my, what could possibly go wrong with the bit in yellow (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-to-move-quickly-on-pledges-after-parliament-resumes-sources-says/article27066314/)?
Quote
.... members of the outgoing government warn Trudeau will have a hard time meeting a promise to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by year-end.

By comparison, the United States, with nine times as many people as Canada, is aiming to take in at least 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year.

“He’s got to make sure that none of those 25,000 refugees are going to cause him any kind of security heartburn,” said Ian Brodie, Harper’s first chief of staff.

A person with direct knowledge of the file, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said officials at the immigration ministry had concluded that the only way to achieve the goal would be to airlift the refugees into Canada and then carry out mandatory health and security checks.

The source said the challenge with screening on Canadian soil is that even if some are rejected, it is hard to deport people once they are in the country.


Outgoing senior Conservative cabinet minister Tony Clement said the Trudeau pledge to bring them all in by year end was unrealistic.

“There’s no way to do that without incurring a lot of expense or alternatively having an impact on our safety and security, he said.

The second Liberal source conceded Trudeau might have to push back the Dec. 31 deadline, but would still bring in 25,000.

“If he has to say he’ll take an extra two or three months to make it happen, I don’t think anyone will think that’s unreasonable,” said the source ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 02, 2015, 17:40:00
Oh my, what could possibly go wrong with the bit in yellow (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-to-move-quickly-on-pledges-after-parliament-resumes-sources-says/article27066314/)?

I guess it will be like that Tom Hanks movie and all these Refugees will have to live in the Airport facilities.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 02, 2015, 18:49:42
The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses.

Yea, what a bunch of racists  :nod:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on November 02, 2015, 20:02:59
Except some of the people concerned are dark skinned and come from other countries. They realize that not everyone who comes in will be good for the country or community. In fact i just spent 1/2 hr talking to my dark skinned immigrant wife who is volunteering with a church to teach ESL. If you think "Us Canadians" are worried about unrestricted immigration, just ask a successful immigrant, you be surprised by their blunt response I think.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 05, 2015, 20:26:53
Meanwhile, here (http://globalnews.ca/news/2321950/kapyong-the-perfect-temporary-home-for-refugees-military-expert/), an consultant (https://www.linkedin.com/pub/gary-solar/3/793/569)'s vote for Kapyong as a temporary home ....
Quote
The Kapyong Barracks is the perfect place to house up to 2,000 Syrian refugees according to a Winnipeg military expert.

Gary Solar is a retired Colonel and chief of operations at the Centre for Crime and Terrorism Studies in the United States.

He says the Barracks is a self-contained “village” with the buildings, living quarters and security measures already in place to make it an ideal temporary home for refugees.

However the structures have sat vacant for 11 years, meaning they’d be in need of major restorative work before they’d be suitable to live in.

But Solar still thinks the plan could work, “In some of the halls they could put people up in temporary accommodation while they worked to make the other buildings safe.”

Complicating things is the status of the Kapyong Barracks lands, with a potential deal for the property between Treaty 1 First Nations and the federal government on the horizon ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 09, 2015, 14:59:28
The deal would need to be sweetened of course, perhaps every community handling the refugees would receive a large pot of Federal money, part of which would go towards the refugees and the rest could be used for other projects needed in the community it self.  They would basically receive a subsidy in exchange for looking after the influx of refugees.  Teams of experts could also be surged in to these communities to provide a variety of social services.
First step:  "reaching out" to provinces & large municipalities, which is what Minister McCallum is telling reporters he's going to be doing (according to Twitter posts from a news conference now under way (https://twitter.com/search?q=McCallum%20refugees%20mayors&src=typd)).

As for housing refugees in military facilities?  Still a maybe, according to various reporters:

More from Info-machine Red here (http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?mthd=index&crtr.page=1&nid=1019909):
Quote
The Honourable John McCallum, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, today announced the creation of a new Cabinet ad hoc committee to help bring Syrian refugees to Canada.

An Ad Hoc Committee on Refugees will be a driving force in delivering on the government’s commitment to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by the end of 2015.

The ad hoc committee will include the following members:

    The Honourable Jane Philpott, Minister of Health, Chair;
    The Honourable Mélanie Joly, Minister of Canadian Heritage, Vice-Chair;
    The Honourable Ralph Goodale, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness;
    The Honourable Stéphane Dion, Minister of Foreign Affairs;
    The Honourable John McCallum, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship;
    The Honourable Scott Brison, President of the Treasury Board;
    The Honourable Marie-Claude Bibeau, Minister of International Development and La Francophonie ;
    The Honourable Harjit Singh Sajjan, Minister of National Defence; and
    The Honourable Maryam Monsef, Minister of Democratic Institutions.

The ad hoc committee will hold its first meeting on November 10, 2015.

The Government of Canada has made the following commitments related to refugees:

    expand Canada’s intake of refugees from Syria by 25,000 through immediate government sponsorship, and also work with private sponsors to accept even more;
    fully restore the Interim Federal Health Program that provides limited and temporary health benefits to refugees and refugee claimants;
    invest at least an additional $100 million this fiscal year to increase – without reducing standards – refugee processing as well as sponsorship and settlement services capacity in Canada; and,
    provide an immediate, new $100 million contribution to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) to support the critical relief activities in Syria and the surrounding area. ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 09, 2015, 15:36:57
And the calls for calm/tolerance begin - this from the 2 Div Info-machine, via 45enord.ca (http://www.45enord.ca/2015/11/refugies-le-brigadier-general-lafaut-rappelle-a-ses-troupes-leur-devoir-et-les-appelle-a-la-tolerance/) after reports that Valcartier may be host to some refugees (http://www.lifeinquebec.com/syrian-refugees-could-be-welcomed-to-cmb-valcartier-20423/) - Google translation below ....
Quote
Message à l’intention de tous les membres de la 2e Division du Canada et de la Force opérationnelle interarmées (Est)
Brigadier-général Stéphane Lafaut

Commandant, 2e Division du Canada/Force opérationnelle interarmées (Est)

Comme vous le savez au cours des derniers jours, plusieurs articles de journaux et médias ont fait état de la possibilité que les bases militaires du pays soient mises à contribution pour supporter l’accueil gouvernemental de réfugiés au pays. Ces informations ont déjà suscité beaucoup de questionnement de la part de militaires ou de leur famille. Malgré tout, je sais que l’équipe de la défense demeure professionnelle et toujours prête à aider, à servir et je vous en remercie. Malheureusement, j’ai aussi été témoin de commentaires offensants dans les médias sociaux d’une minorité qui étaient non seulement contre l’utilisation de nos installations militaires, mais qui poussaient aussi l’audace à critiquer ouvertement l’arrivée de familles migrantes, alors que leurs pays sont ravagés par des guerres qui n’en finissent plus. À l’instar de plusieurs militaires, je dois vous avouer que j’ai été personnellement attristé et offensé par certaines des idées véhiculées qui ne font pas honneur à l’uniforme que nous portons si fièrement et les idéaux pour lesquels nous nous sommes déployés et parfois battus sur plusieurs continents.

J’aimerais rappeler à tous les membres des Forces armées canadiennes, à nos employés civils, ainsi qu’à toutes nos familles qui fréquentent ou vivent sur nos installations militaires, que l’emploi de nos ressources en vue de l’accueil potentiel de réfugiés au Canada n’est encore qu’une possibilité. Plusieurs autres moyens sont aussi explorés par notre gouvernement et les organisations non gouvernementales. Si jamais notre contribution était demandée par le Gouvernement, nous répondrions fièrement à l’appel et ce soutien serait fait dans le plus grand respect des familles qui vivent sur nos installations militaires. Soyez donc assurés que de l’information pertinente serait alors fournie.

À l’aube des célébrations du Jour du Souvenir, j’aimerais aussi rappeler à tous que nous, militaires et employés civils, avons participé activement à plusieurs conflits armés et opérations de toutes sortes dont le but premier était de démontrer non seulement l’engagement de notre pays, mais aussi de défendre et exporter, dans des zones dévastées, les valeurs démocratiques qui nous sont si chères. Des valeurs telles que la tolérance, le respect et la compassion envers autrui, peu importe les croyances et l’ethnicité des populations aidées. J’ai personnellement connu des militaires, dont des amis, qui sont malheureusement décédés en entrainement pré-déploiement ou en mission et aussi des gens qui souffrent toujours de blessures de toute nature. J’aimerais encore pouvoir dire à leur famille, que leurs êtres chers n’ont pas juste mené des opérations de combat, entrainé des forces de sécurité étrangères ou bien construit des écoles, mais qu’ils ont servi leur pays parce qu’ils croyaient et défendaient avant tout les idéaux qui ont permis de bâtir nos communautés. Ces mêmes valeurs qui nous permettent aujourd’hui d’évoluer dans une société ou la tolérance et la liberté d’expression se côtoient dans le plus grand des respects.

Je vous remercie encore de votre compréhension et surtout de votre soutien indéfectible envers nos missions, quelles qu’elles soient.
Google English:
Quote
Message to all members of the 2nd Canadian Division and Joint Task Force (East)
Brigadier General Stéphane Lafaut
Commander, 2nd Canadian Division / Joint Task Force (East)

As you know in recent days, several newspapers and media articles have reported the possibility of the military bases in the country are put to use to support the government's reception of refugees in the country. The information has already generated a lot of questioning on the part of military or their families. Still, I know that the defense team remained professional and always ready to help, to serve, and I thank you. Unfortunately, I have also witnessed offensive comments in social media of a minority that were not only against the use of our military installations, but also pushed the audacity to openly criticize the arrival of migrant families, while that their countries are ravaged by wars that never end. Like many soldiers, I must admit that I was personally saddened and offended by some of the ideas conveyed that do not honor the uniform we wear so proudly and ideals for which we deployed and sometimes beaten on several continents.

I would remind all members of the Canadian Forces, our civilian employees, our families and all who visit or live on our military installations, the use of our resources to welcome potential refugees Canada is still a possibility. Several other methods are also explored by our government and nongovernmental organizations. If ever our contribution was requested by the Government, we proudly would respond to the call and what support would be done with the utmost respect for the families that live on our military installations. Rest assured that relevant information would be provided.

On the eve of Remembrance Day celebrations, I would also remind everyone that we, military and civilian personnel have actively participated in several armed conflicts and operations of all kinds, the primary aim was to demonstrate not only the commitment of our country, but also to defend and export in the devastated areas, democratic values ​​we hold so dear. Values ​​such as tolerance, respect and compassion for others, regardless of creed and ethnicity of the assisted populations. I have personally experienced soldiers, including friends, who unfortunately died in pre-deployment training or mission and also people who always suffer injuries of any kind. I would still be able to tell their families that their loved ones have not only conducted combat operations, trained foreign security forces or built schools, but they have served their country because they believed and above all defended the ideals that have helped build our communities. Those same values ​​that allow us to evolve in a society where tolerance and freedom of expression coexist in the highest respect.

Thank you again for your understanding and your continued support especially towards our mission, whatever they are.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jewel144 on November 09, 2015, 15:46:37
Meanwhile, here (http://globalnews.ca/news/2321950/kapyong-the-perfect-temporary-home-for-refugees-military-expert/), an consultant (https://www.linkedin.com/pub/gary-solar/3/793/569)'s vote for Kapyong as a temporary home ....

I suggested as much when the topic was brought up in more local news groups.  General consensus is the City needs to focus on their homeless and the poverty issues before this occurs.  Yes, the First nations and ownership will also be a concern moving forward but this is a temporary thing which no one seems to understand. No one is going to start demo'ing and rebuilding tomorrow or in December either. 

Of course there is a rather affluent area right there....NIMBY is rampant!
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 09, 2015, 17:32:39
Not everybody supports this move.  I've read thru some news articles and comments from (assumingly) average Canadians.  Many voice concerns and point towards the chaos in Europe and ask what is going to be done by the government to ensure this does NOT happen in Canada.

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 09, 2015, 17:35:15
First step:  "reaching out" to provinces & large municipalities, which is what Minister McCallum is telling reporters he's going to be doing (according to Twitter posts from a news conference now under way (https://twitter.com/search?q=McCallum%20refugees%20mayors&src=typd)).

As for housing refugees in military facilities?  Still a maybe, according to various reporters:
  • "McCallum says one of the possibilities for temporary housing Syrian refugees is military bases." (https://twitter.com/stevenchase/status/663789006136692736)
  • "McCallum says Army playing major role because military bases may be used to house refugees #cdnpoli" (https://twitter.com/CTVMercedes/status/663788389272068096)
  • "McCallum says military is playing a major role with potential for refugees to be housed on army bases." (https://twitter.com/yowflier/status/663788372557742080)

More from Info-machine Red here (http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?mthd=index&crtr.page=1&nid=1019909):
Next step:  name someone at PCO as the refugee lead (http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2015/11/09/pm-announces-change-senior-ranks-public-service) ....
Quote
Malcolm Brown, currently Deputy Minister for International Development, becomes Special Advisor to the Clerk of the Privy Council on the Syrian Refugee Initiative. - See more at: http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2015/11/09/pm-announces-change-senior-ranks-public-service#sthash.IlWVNh4n.dpuf
More on Brown here (http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2015/11/09/malcolm-brown).
I've read thru some news articles and comments from (assumingly) average Canadians.  Many voice concerns and point towards the chaos in Europe and ask what is going to be done by the government to ensure this does NOT happen in Canada.
While comments sometimes have to be taken with a grain of salt, that's still a reasonable question to ask - wonder how long it'll take to get asked?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 09, 2015, 17:42:58
While comments sometimes have to be taken with a grain of salt, that's still a reasonable question to ask - wonder how long it'll take to get asked?

I tend to ignore the comments that sound like they come from the "Happy Birthday, Uncle Dad!" crowd; some of the comments from posters were quite reasonable and mature.  There are some who are 'all in', some who are 'why are we doing this?!?!?' and some "I see the need for this; are we doing it in a way that won't be a detriment to our country, neighborhoods and citizens?".

Agreed that the last question is a reasonable one, and one that should be addressed and communicated.   :2c:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Thucydides on November 09, 2015, 17:59:43
I tend to ignore the comments that sound like they come from the "Happy Birthday, Uncle Dad!" crowd; some of the comments from posters were quite reasonable and mature.  There are some who are 'all in', some who are 'why are we doing this?!?!?' and some "I see the need for this; are we doing it in a way that won't be a detriment to our country, neighborhoods and citizens?".

Agreed that the last question is a reasonable one, and one that should be addressed and communicated.   :2c:

That is the real issue. The new government suddenly saying we will take in a huge influx of refugees without any sort of plan (scrambling to determine where and when they will be screened, scrambling to find places for them, no apparent discussion of the long term plan or reprecussions of this) smacks of "virtue signalling", and as the virtue signalling in Europe shows, not having a plan leads to trouble.

Will Canadians torch old military bases to prevent them from being used? Highly unlikely for now, but as time passes and problems arise due to lack of planning (or questions are not being answered becasue there are no answers available), then the sorts of forces that drive the nativists in Europe will find grounds to grow and prosper here. I would be all for a considered pause and some proper long term planning over virtue signalling and rushing to do a half assed job with the refugees.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 09, 2015, 18:10:34
Will Canadians torch old military bases to prevent them from being used? Highly unlikely for now, but as time passes and problems arise due to lack of planning (or questions are not being answered becasue there are no answers available), then the sorts of forces that drive the nativists in Europe will find grounds to grow and prosper here.
I'm going to have a bit more faith in Canadians (not to mention those guarding said bases) than that for now.

Meanwhile, one caught so far (http://en.europeonline-magazine.eu/italy-police-catch-terrorist-amid-rescued-boat-migrants-report-says_421712.html) (out of ~102,000 this year landing in Italy & Greece (https://www.iom.int/news/number-migrants-landing-europe-2015-passes-100000)), but more than zero ....
Quote
Italian police caught a Tunisian member of an Islamic terrorist group among a group of boat migrants rescued last month, and promptly repatriated him, the La Repubblica newspaper reported Sunday.

Bar Nasr Mehdi, 38, was said to have been picked up from the Mediterranean on October 4 by a navy rescue team along with more than 200 people, and taken to the Italian outpost island of Lampedusa.

After fingerprinting, authorities discovered he had given a false name and was the man who had been arrested in Italy in 2008, convicted to seven years‘ imprisonment for terrorism, expelled and banned from returning after serving his time ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 09, 2015, 18:27:53
Not everybody supports this move.

Nope.  I'll leave my family and risk my life to deploy to Syria or Iraq and help Syrians fight ISIS and get their home back. 
I don't support taking marginally screened refugees and dropping them into my town, or country. The security risk is too much. 

I suspect the security teams designated to watch them won't even be armed for fear of headlines. 

It was a stupid number of refugees to promise to take into Canada and the government will go ahead with it because they don't want to lose face.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 09, 2015, 21:02:57
Nope.  I'll leave my family and risk my life to deploy to Syria or Iraq and help Syrians fight ISIS and get their home back. 
I don't support taking marginally screened refugees and dropping them into my town, or country. The security risk is too much. 

I suspect the security teams designated to watch them won't even be armed for fear of headlines. 

It was a stupid number of refugees to promise to take into Canada and the government will go ahead with it because they don't want to lose face.

In my opinion that is by far the majority of any informed military members opinion. I could be wrong though.

I suppose just like in World War I we kept putting troops 'over the top' and damn the consequences our newby Government priority will be to save face and do the obviously very stupid and dangerous thing.  Here Jeeves, hold my champagne and watch this.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Bass ackwards on November 09, 2015, 21:41:25
While comments sometimes have to be taken with a grain of salt, that's still a reasonable question to ask - wonder how long it'll take to get asked?

And how long will it take for the person asking it to be branded a racist and an Islamophobe? End of debate.

Unfortunately, a lot of the animosity and hard feelings that result from that will spill over onto the refugees themselves, regardless of whether they've done anything to deserve it -instead of being directed at the people doing the branding (cough CBC cough).
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Thucydides on November 09, 2015, 21:48:33
Quote
Quote from: Thucydides on Today at 16:59:43
Quote
Will Canadians torch old military bases to prevent them from being used? Highly unlikely for now, but as time passes and problems arise due to lack of planning (or questions are not being answered becasue there are no answers available), then the sorts of forces that drive the nativists in Europe will find grounds to grow and prosper here.

I'm going to have a bit more faith in Canadians (not to mention those guarding said bases) than that for now.

As a student of history, I have faith that people are motivated by the same things that were identified by the first Thucydides as he was writing the "The History of the Peloponnesian War": kleos, doxa and timē, and sadly, people who feel slighted in these things will begin to seek out ways to regain them, even to the point of conflict (indeed this is sometimes seen as the source of conflict). On a less rhetorical plane, we can also see that the unrestricted immigration of Europe since the 1980's has led to the rise of Nativist "National Socialist" parties and their increasing electoral success, which current events has only boosted. One mustn't forget the PQ was also a National Socialist party, and Parizeau's "Money and the ethnic vote" shows where their heads were at the time.

So while I hope as you do, I am also aware that the new government is not exactly setting the conditions for success with this display of virtue signalling.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 10, 2015, 18:51:04
Article Link (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadian-military-can-already-house-12k-syrian-refugees-1.2649684#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=gsmt5AT)

Canadian military can already house 12K Syrian refugees

The Canadian military is already prepared to house 12,000 Syrian refugees -- nearly half of the 25,000 that the Liberal government has promised to bring to the country -- by the end of the year, CTV News has learned.

Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance ordered a review weeks ago so that the military could hit the ground running in case the government asked for his support.

Refugees could be housed in cadet summer camps and military training bases.

"We've got the whole network of bases across Canada -- probably, though I’m just guessing at this stage of the game -- it could probably come back to (Canadian Forces Base) Trenton, where they could be processed and distributed out," said retired Major General David Fraser.

Earlier on Monday, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Minister John McCallum announced that a cabinet sub-committee has been tasked with bringing the Liberals’ goal to fruition.

The chair of the sub-committee will be Health Minister Jane Philpott. Other members include Heritage Minister Melanie Joly, Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale, Foreign Affairs Minister Stephane Dion and Democratic Institutions Minister Maryam Monsef.

McCallum said each sub-committee member has a portfolio that touches on the refugee issue. He singled out Philpott, who has worked with refugees in Africa, and Monsef, who was herself a refugee from Afghanistan.

McCallum said the Liberal government is still committed to bringing the refugees in by the end of the year, but wants to do it “correctly.”

In a statement, NDP MP Jenny Kwan said her party "supports" the Liberals’ goal, but believes that McCallum's announcement was "short on details."

"We believe Canadians were looking for a concrete plan for getting vulnerable refugees out of harm's way, not hearing about new cabinet subcommittees," she said.

"This is the new government's first test on delivering the change they promised to Canadians. We hope that the next announcement on how they will achieve this goal is coming very soon."

McCallum said that Ottawa is relying on support from provinces, territories and municipalities, as well as groups and individuals who want to support refugees to accomplish its goal.

“As long as we do the job right, that is to say with speed but also with due attention to important considerations of health and security,” he said.

He acknowledged “time is limited” for the government to meet its goal, but said he will have a more detailed announcement “soon.”

In an appearance on CTV's Power Play on Monday, immigration lawyer Jennifer Bond said she believes the refugee target can be achieved and that so far the Liberals have taken the right steps forward.

"I think we should feel confident that a lot of senior people have been put on this portfolio, today's subcommittee is filled with people who have both good portfolios to be at the table but also a lot of good individual personal experiences," she said.

"We need to move quickly and I'm very hopeful that today's announcement is not a stall tactic, but actually a real commitment to actually work together to make this happen."

Bond added that refugees are "dying every single day and the increasing numbers of people are dying as conditions worsen overseas."

"As Canadians we can't only cry over the children that have died but we really have to do what we can do to help those that are still at risk, and I think that's where we’re heading," said Bond, who is also behind the University of Ottawa's Refugee Sponsorship Support Program.

Former Canadian ambassador to Syria Glenn Davidson, who also appeared on Power Play, agreed with Bond's assessment, saying that there's "no question (Canada) can handle" 25,000 refugees.

"I think that the steps that the government is taking -- that minister McCallum announced today -- are exactly right," he said.

"Put the focus of this new team firmly on this, put the resources behind it and move aggressively to make it happen."

When asked how the refugees will travel to Canada, McCallum said that “every option is on the table.”

He said involving the Royal Canadian Air Force, commercial planes, as well as ships, are possibilities.

"We would do what is the most efficient, cost-effective quick way to get those people here, and then we have to welcome them, and we have to accommodate and we have to help them settle into Canada," he said.

However, the air force likely won't have as large of a role as commercial airliners because of its limited capacity.

Air Canada has already offered to help the government transport Syrian refugees “to the fullest extent possible.” A company spokesperson told CTV News that the airline has so far only exchanged “preliminary information” with Ottawa.

McCallum said the government now has to figure out the fastest, most secure and cost-effective way to bring Syrian refugees from other countries that have taken them in. He said Ottawa will focus on Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon.

“We have to clearly liaise with the governments of those countries and with the United Nations.”

McCallum said the government has already deployed "dozens of additional immigration officials" to the region to handle the incoming case load.

Treasury Board President Scott Brison, who is also on the refugee sub-committee, will examine the related costs, McCallum said.

The exact cost of the mission has yet to be determined because all the "variables" have yet to be sorted out, but McCallum said it is going to cost a "penny or two."

"We've put aside some money in our platform for this, but it is not going to be cheap to bring 25,000 people to country and help them settle," he said.

"Don't forget these people come from the most dire of circumstances … this is probably the worst refugee crisis in decades," McCallum added.

The government will also have to find accommodations for all the refugees once they arrive. McCallum said that Canadian military bases are “one possibility” in the "short run," but working with provincial governments, as well as municipalities, non-governmental organizations and will be key.

McCallum said many groups, including the Syrian community, and individuals across the country have also offered to take in refugees.

McCallum said he also hopes to have refugee health care reinstated in line with the same end-of-year deadline.

"I don’t control the parliamentary calendar, and we will not have very much time before Christmas. But I certainly am hoping very much this will be the case," he said.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- If we can house 12k of them on bases, why is there 'no room' in the SQs sometimes and waiting lists for PMQs?

- so the Liberal's definition of 'doing this right' is to try to get everyone else to pay for it?   ^-^  As stated, it will only be a penny...or two... 



Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on November 10, 2015, 18:55:51
Former CFB Cornwallis site offers to house Syrian refugees as well.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1321583-former-cfb-cornwallis-site-offers-to-house-syrian-refugees (http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1321583-former-cfb-cornwallis-site-offers-to-house-syrian-refugees)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brihard on November 10, 2015, 18:58:50

- If we can house 12k of them on bases, why is there 'no room' in the SQs sometimes and waiting lists for PMQs?

- so the Liberal's definition of 'doing this right' is to try to get everyone else to pay for it?   ^-^  As stated, it will only be a penny...or two...

They're talking about the tent lines of weatherhavens found at such bases/camps as Gagetown, Connaught, Aldershot, Blackdown, etc. It would be very spartan. And cold...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 10, 2015, 19:04:05
When the Kosovo refugees were brought to Aldershot, it was the military members who were kicked out of their SQs and living in the tents on the old Black Watch parade square.  The refugees got the hard shelters.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 10, 2015, 19:06:02
They're talking about the tent lines of weatherhavens found at such bases/camps as Gagetown, Connaught, Aldershot, Blackdown, etc. It would be very spartan. And cold...

And how long before all the 'poor pitiful me' whining starts?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Harris on November 10, 2015, 19:47:36
They're talking about the tent lines of weatherhavens found at such bases/camps as Gagetown, Connaught, Aldershot, Blackdown, etc. It would be very spartan. And cold...

Camp Argonaut in Gagetown has three nearly new accommodation buildings that hold 300+ each.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 10, 2015, 21:56:25
A sliver of info via the U.N. (http://www.comoxvalleyecho.com/national/344712302.html) ....
Quote
Syrian refugees being brought to Canada by the Liberal government will only be given temporary residency permits until their cases have been fully processed in Canada, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugee says.

It's the first sliver of concrete detail about how the Liberals will meet a target to resettle 25,000 people by the end of the year, a logistical challenge now being overseen by a cabinet committee set to meet for the first time Tuesday.

In a statement Tuesday morning, the UN's Antonio Guterres said his agency is working with the government to identify people for resettlement — particularly from Lebanon and Jordan — and help facilitate their move.

He said Syrians coming to Canada will initially receive a temporary residence permit, which will be replaced by permanent status after processing in Canada. They'll be eligible to apply for citizenship in four years.

( .... )

The federal Immigration department couldn't immediately confirm the details or provide any additional information about the plan.

The temporary permit approach was used in 1999 when more than 5,000 Kosovars were airlifted to Canada over four months.

On Monday, minister John McCallum said that while the target remains 25,000 Syrians by the end of the year, the government doesn't want to rush it.

"We are also determined to do the job well, which means proper consideration be given to security concerns and to health concerns," McCallum said ....
Here's today's (10 Nov 2015) statement from the UNHCR (http://www.unhcr.org/5641dec16.html):
Quote
UNHCR today welcomed the announcement by the Government of Canada to take in a further 25,000 Syrian refugees through humanitarian admission programmes by the end of 2015.

"This is a huge gesture of solidarity with the Syrian people and the countries neighbouring Syria which together are hosting more than four million refugees and bearing the brunt of this crisis. I urge other countries to follow Canada's lead, galvanise their resources, and dramatically increase the number of Syrians who are able to rebuild their lives in safe countries without having to take perilous journeys," said UN High Commissioner for Refugees António Guterres.

"Too many vulnerable refugees are languishing in countries neighbouring Syria, caught in a downward spiral of poverty and risk as they struggle to meet their basic needs. We need many more ambitious programmes like this to offer Syrians a chance to start their lives anew," Guterres added.

UNHCR will work with Canadian immigration authorities to allow for the quick identification of vulnerable Syrians in the Middle East, particularly from Lebanon and Jordan, and facilitate their move to Canada.

The announcement comes on top of Canada's earlier pledge to receive 10,000 places for Syrian refugees before September 2016, following UNHCR's pledging conference for resettlement and other forms of humanitarian admission in December 2014. The total number of places for Syrians under these schemes in some 30 countries now stands at 155,408.

UNHCR estimates 10 per cent of the 4.1 million registered refugees in countries neighbouring Syria are vulnerable and are in need of resettlement or humanitarian admission to a third country.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 10, 2015, 22:19:34
When the Kosovo refugees were brought to Aldershot, it was the military members who were kicked out of their SQs and living in the tents on the old Black Watch parade square.  The refugees got the hard shelters.


Is anyone surprised by that? I wouldn't be surprised if the military members still had to pay for their SQs.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 10, 2015, 23:44:48
Using the UNHCR's statement, Canada with 10,000 plus another 25,000, will stand to take 22.5% of all pledged Syrian refugees. If we stuck with 10,000, we'd be at 6.5%, which is still double what the numbers would be if everyone took an equal number of 5168.

I somehow still feel there will be cries that Canada's not doing enough. Maybe we can cram a few more in the Weatherhavens at Meaford in January.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 11, 2015, 10:25:24
Using the UNHCR's statement, Canada with 10,000 plus another 25,000, will stand to take 22.5% of all pledged Syrian refugees. If we stuck with 10,000, we'd be at 6.5%, which is still double what the numbers would be if everyone took an equal number of 5168.

I somehow still feel there will be cries that Canada's not doing enough. Maybe we can cram a few more in the Weatherhavens at Meaford in January.
Hey, even the World Socialists complain about Mulcair/NDP not being socialist enough (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/08/21/ndpl-a21.html), so SOMEONE's gonna be unhappy, right?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 13, 2015, 18:15:01
A bit more "target realignment" on Canada's commitment to taking 25,000 refugees -- here's the promise from the platform (https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/10/A-new-plan-for-a-strong-middle-class-BW-1.pdf) ....
Quote
.... we will expand Canada’s intake of refugees from Syria by 25,000 through immediate government sponsorship ....
.... and what was said (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/refugee-crisis-canada-election-2015-trudeau-leaders-1.3217635) ....
Quote
.... The Liberals would accept 25,000 by Jan. 1, 2016 ....
... compared to what the Immigration Minister's mandate letter (http://pm.gc.ca/eng/minister-immigration-refugees-and-citizenship-mandate-letter) says - highlights mine:
Quote
.... Lead government-wide efforts to resettle 25,000 refugees from Syria in the coming months ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Thucydides on November 13, 2015, 22:44:32
Given the events in Paris tonight, perhaps a pause is in order before we start importing all these people. The idea of bringing them over without any prior screening at the point of departure or country of origin is sheer madness (what happens when they are already here and you can't identify them because the records are destroyed or corrupt, or you do identify a terrorist suspect? No one in the new government has apparently thought this through).

Step back, make a real plan, and then we can execute.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: cavalryman on November 13, 2015, 22:47:06
Insufficient opportunity for virtue signalling, Thucydides.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 13, 2015, 22:56:18
If anything we should speed up their arrival.

Placing them in military bases is a great idea.  All the fences,  locked buildings and and armed guards make it very secure.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 13, 2015, 23:47:19
If anything we should speed up their arrival.

Placing them in military bases is a great idea.  All the fences,  locked buildings and and armed guards make it very secure.
Yep, just what we need, Boer War style concentration camps or WWII Japanese detention camps.
 :sarcasm:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: tomahawk6 on November 13, 2015, 23:57:10
How about not taking any of these so called refugee's ?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Dimsum on November 14, 2015, 00:05:18
How about not taking any of these so called refugee's ?

Political suicide - it was one of the Liberal Government's top campaign priorities. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: cavalryman on November 14, 2015, 00:09:52
How about not taking any of these so called refugee's ?
How about sticking to Christians and Yezidis - you know, folks from Syria getting butchered by ISIS because they're infidels.  I'm sure the Iranians can help the Shia and Alawites much better than we can.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Alpha dog on November 14, 2015, 00:23:50
How about sticking to Christians and Yezidis - you know, folks from Syria getting butchered by ISIS because they're infidels.  I'm sure the Iranians can help the Shia and Alawites much better than we can.

I don't think only the Yezidis and the Christians are considered infidels... anyone that does not share their beliefs is considered an infidel.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Dimsum on November 14, 2015, 01:16:39
I don't think only the Yezidis and the Christians are considered infidels... anyone that does not share their beliefs is considered an infidel.

Yes, including the other sects of Islam. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 14, 2015, 13:14:46
How about sticking to Christians and Yezidis - you know, folks from Syria getting butchered by ISIS because they're infidels.  I'm sure the Iranians can help the Shia and Alawites much better than we can.

That is a good compationate compromise in my mind.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: citizen who supports CAF on November 14, 2015, 19:14:50
Quote

1,000 Syrian refugees to be flown daily to Canada


Posted by: CIJnews Editor November 13, 2015   

Trudeau’s Liberal government reviewed on Thursday, November 12, the plan which is still undergoing development, to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees in Canada till the end of the year.

Based on the government and media reports, the plan seems to contain the following components:

Identification – All refugees will be identified on site before arriving in Canada. 10,000 refugees have already applied to Canada.

Health checks will be conducted in the refugee-hosting countries. The government intends to restore the Interim Federal Health Program that provides limited and temporary health benefits to refugees and refugee claimants.

Security screening – Initial security checks will be conducted at phase one and completed after the refugees are already settled in Canada. Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale affirmed that some security screening will be conducted on Canadian soil. “My officials are satisfied that, to the extent that there are security issues, that they can be properly managed within the frame that the government is considering, and that Canada can fulfil the objective of receiving and settling 25,000 refugees in an expeditious way,” Goodale said.

Transportation – Three daily flights out of Amman, Jordan will bring every day 1,000 Syrian refugees to Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton and the military base in Trenton, Ont. Air Canada offered its help in airlifting the Syrian refugees.

Sponsorship – The 25,000 Syrian refugees will be admitted through immediate government sponsorship and more refugees to be brought to Canada by private sponsors.

Integration – The refugees will stay 3 months in “Interim Lodging Sites” as part of the “community integration” process. 6,000 of them are expected to resettle in Quebec.


Source BBC:
Quote
'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911
Where do the migrants come from?

The conflict in Syria continues to be by far the biggest driver of the migration. But the ongoing violence in Afghanistan, abuses in Eritrea, as well as poverty in Kosovo are also leading people to look for new lives elsewhere.
European Union has posted its latest statistics:

85,000 Afghanistan
62,000 Kosovo
55,000 Iraq
52,000 Albania
30,000 Pakistan
20,000 Eritrea
18,000 Nigeria
15,000 Serbia
14,000 Ukraine
________________

350,000 + "refugees" are NON-Syrian = < 66%
178,000 "refugees" alleged to be Syrian = < 34%

However, over half the "Syrian refugees" claiming to be Syrian have destroyed their passports and ID,
and refuse to be fingerprinted.

It is believed that the number of actual Syrians may only be about 15 % of the total number
of "refugee" claimants.

A significant majority of migrant "refugees" appear to be middle-class workers and familes from
a large number of non-European and non-Nato countries, including Turkey.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34377798

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34173252

Many may already be settled immigrants and "refugees" that have already received
asylum in countries that they perceive has having less economic opportunities,
or slimmer handout packages or welfare systems, such as Turkey and Eastern Europe.

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/144FA/production/_86549138_eu_asylum_application_origi.png

---------------------------

Now the Kicker:

Quote
New survey: 13% of Syrian refugees in Europe support ISIS

Posted by: Ilana Shneider November 11, 2015   

As the new Liberal government scrambles to fulfill its election promise of bringing 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by December 31 (or roughly 6,000 refugees a week), the first-of-its-kind survey of Syrian refugees entering Europe found that 13% support the Islamic State (ISIS).

In the largest public opinion poll ever conducted in the Arab region by the Doha-based Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies which included a sample made up of 600 respondents from Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Iraq as well as 900 Syrian refugees, the poll revealed that 22% of Syrian refugees viewed Israel as the greatest threat to the security and stability of the Arab region, while only 10% of Syrian refugees viewed Islamic militancy as the greatest threat.

Additionally, 10% of Syrian refugees named the United States to be one of the two biggest beneficiaries of the military campaign against ISIS, while 27% named Israel as one of the two parties who stood to gain the most.

15% of Syrian refugees did not regard ISIS as a direct threat to the security of their home country, and 10% and 16% cited declaration of the Islamic Caliphate and commitment to Islamic principles as the main cause of ISIS strength and support, respectively.

66% of Syrian refugees believe that ISIS was created by foreign actors and 31% of Syrians said they oppose or strongly oppose the military airstrikes against ISIS by the US-led international coalition.

Finally, the survey also found that 13% of the displaced Syrian refugees have a positive or somewhat positive view of the terror group.

The poll should raise alarms about the potential of 13% of incoming refugees either already supporting ISIS or being susceptible to ISIS recruitment. However, to date the Liberals have not provided any details about what, if any, screening mechanisms have been put in place in order to identify potential security risks by bringing 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada in a span of less than 2 months, in spite of serious concerns voiced by immigration lawyers and security experts.

Toronto-based Immigration lawyer Guidy Mamann warned that accepting 25,000 refugees and landing them in Canada before December 31 is a “very, very tall order”. According to Mamann, who has been practicing immigration law for close to 30 years, “something is going to have to be missed in order to do what Prime Minister-designate Justin Trudeau said he is going to do.”

In an interview with Radio Canada International (October 29, 2015), Kyle Matthews of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute said that Trudeau’s promise is going to be very difficult to meet, particularly when it comes to security screening. “The sad reality is that, yes all refugees are civilian, but there could be a few bad apples among the refugee population. So they’re going to have to check everyone’s background and that’s not a process that you could simply enter into a Google search and get the answer”.

Also on October 29, CIJnews reported that Syrian intelligence database seized by the rebel forces clearly demonstrated the severity of the risk embodied in admitting thousands of refugees without proper security checks. One of the databases, obtained by CIJnews, contained detailed information on around 130,000 Syrians, of whom thousands are described as “armed militants” and many others as operatives in rebel groups, including the radical Islamist organizations or involved in violent activities. Names and pictures of alleged Syrian war criminals, taken in Syria as well as several western countries where those alleged criminals found refuge, were posted in a Facebook group called “Criminals, Not Refugees”.



quick calculation gives:

1000 per day brought in by Trudeau
15% support ISIS =
about 150 Syrian terrorists / supporters will be imported into Canada DAILY by Trudeau and the Liberal sellouts.


Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Thucydides on November 14, 2015, 19:55:44
The post by "Citizen who supports the CF" is the leading edge of a wave of Canadian public sentiment (and reading some social media and newspapers like the Winnipeg Free Press shows this is a pretty broad and deep wave) that isn't too far behind that of Europe. Events in Paris are certainly not going to make Canadians, Americans or Europeans more accommodating or understanding, and the political elites who dismiss or close their eyes to this public sentiment are being naïve at best and willfully ignorant or arrogant at worst.

And every follow up attack the Jihadis manage to make will only inflame public sentiment against humanitarianism even further, and it won't take too long before things become very ugly in Europe, and I suspect that here in North America people won't be too far behind.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 14, 2015, 21:14:37

Source BBC:
---------------------------

Now the Kicker:
Here's the links providing the information in question, in case one wants to peruse and analyze them ....
As for the stat shown, I've attached a chart from the study in question (http://bit.ly/1LfZyBI), showing the response to "In general, do you have a positive or negative view of ISIL?".  I found nothing there about the ISIS supporters being "terrorists" (which IS something I agree has to be tracked/monitored/screened before refugees come here).

I'll bring another stat into perspective:
Meanwhile, one caught so far (http://en.europeonline-magazine.eu/italy-police-catch-terrorist-amid-rescued-boat-migrants-report-says_421712.html) (out of ~102,000 this year landing in Italy & Greece (https://www.iom.int/news/number-migrants-landing-europe-2015-passes-100000)), but more than zero ....
So now we  have a range of between one out of 102K and one out of 8 - discuss  ;D

The post by "Citizen who supports the CF" is the leading edge of a wave of Canadian public sentiment (and reading some social media and newspapers like the Winnipeg Free Press shows this is a pretty broad and deep wave) that isn't too far behind that of Europe .... it won't take too long before things become very ugly in Europe, and I suspect that here in North America people won't be too far behind.
Until I see more evidence of this, I'm going to continue to be more optimistic about not seeing Canadians burning down military barracks/refugee centres (http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,120427.msg1399660.html#msg1399660).  I'm also in this camp:
We have radicals here (in the West) now.  They are either home-grown or plants - likely the former, as the latter requires a degree of sophistication so far lacking in ISIL tactics - it is so much easier to turn someone in place, than to train and dispatch them.  Either way, we have mechanisms and institutions charged with protecting us from that threat.  So far, they have done a bloody good job.

I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as well.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Thucydides on November 14, 2015, 22:25:05
Until I see more evidence of this, I'm going to continue to be more optimistic about not seeing Canadians burning down military barracks/refugee centres (http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,120427.msg1399660.html#msg1399660).  I'm also in this camp:

Edward posted an article in the Globe and Mail in a different thread which says exactly that:

Quote
Re: Canada's New, Liberal, Foreign Policy

« Reply #18 on: Today at 20:48:38 »

Quote
In this column, which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, Lawrence Martin, no friend to Prime Minister Stephen Harper or the Conservatives, suggests that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau may need to abandon or, at least, modify some of the polices on which he campaigned and move closer to the Harper/Conservative foreign policy:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/after-paris-attacks-trudeaus-soft-power-already-under-fire/article27264347/?click=sf_globefb


Quote
After Paris attacks, Trudeau’s soft power already under fire

LAWRENCE MARTIN
Special to The Globe and Mail

Published Saturday, Nov. 14, 2015

The credibility of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s foreign policy has taken a serious hit just as he embarks on his first foray to world capitals.

The Paris terror attacks are seen by many as testament to the need for hard power when dealing with the Islamic State – this while the new Canadian Prime Minister has been preaching, and was elected on, a soft power Liberal line.

Mr. Trudeau has pledged to withdraw Canada’s fighter jets from the U.S.-led mission against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. His plan instead is to increase humanitarian aid as well the number of Canadian soldiers training local forces like the Kurdish Peshmerga.

Former prime minister Stephen Harper frequently mocked this approach, saying at one campaign stop that “if your policy is humanitarian assistance without military support, all you’re doing is dropping aid on dead people.”

With 129 dead in Paris as a result of one of the worst terror outbreaks in decades, the pressure on Mr. Trudeau to change his position will now be enormous.

Canada’s contribution to the air strike campaign is a small one that does not put our military personnel in grave danger. It was hardly a big ask from the Conservatives to have the opposition parties come on board, but neither Liberals nor the NDP did so.

The Paris attacks also serve to put in question the Liberal government’s plan to quickly bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees. The Conservatives did not wish to go near that number in the short term, citing security concerns. Those concerns have just been dramatically heightened and if the Liberals push ahead with their plan, they are going to have a much harder time convincing the public that it is wise to move so quickly.

From the tone of comments posted on online news articles, public opinion is running strongly against the dovish Liberal plans. “Canada stands with the French people and is now in the process of gathering up all of our unicorns, rainbows and hugs to send to the French people,” said one poster. “Just don’t expect us to do anything, you know, like whip out our F18s or fight for our freedom.” Another wrote: “Good to know the Trudeau government and unmuzzled scientists and first ministers will be heading to Paris at the end of the month to talk about climate change, sunshine and butterflies.”

There were many calls for Mr. Harper, who may well be feeling a sense of vindication over what has happened, to return to the job.

An argument for Mr. Trudeau sticking to his pledges is that is that by a larger engagement against IS Canada becomes a higher priority target for its terror. The motive cited by one of the Paris terrorists was retaliation for the French government’s actions against Muslims. There is also the legacy of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Neither are favourably viewed by Canadians.

Mr. Trudeau’s position is particularly sensitive because he is a newcomer on the world stage. In the campaign there were questions about whether he had the foreign policy chops. He put some of those fears to rest with his performance at the Munk debate on foreign policy.

The Paris attacks took place on the very day the Trudeau government publicized its mandate letters for newly appointed cabinet members. For Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan there was little in the way of specifics, but the letter spelled out one top top priority – end Canada’s combat mission in Iraq and Syria. Conservatives were quick to call for a debate and a vote in Parliament on the issue. That was hours before the Paris attacks.

A top adviser to Mr. Trudeau says his position on the airstrikes and the refugees will not change in view of the Paris bloodbath. But as the pressures ramp up, as they surely will, the new prime minister might indeed alter course. He won’t want to be seen as a flip-flopper. But when circumstances change, leaders of statesmanlike quality need to show a readiness to change with them. With the terror from Islamic State escalating, and with France promising to expand the war against the terror network, circumstances have indeed changed.

I most certainly do not advocate for the burning of refugee centers, nor welcome this as a response to the government's plans. I am, however, being realistic based on human nature and history. People are opposed to this plan, and if the "elites" arrogantly ignore public sentiment or exhibit willful blindness by virtue signalling without any real, concrete plan they communicate to the public (which answers public concerns), then some people will start crossing lines. We have already seen this process in Europe, so why should we, of all people, believe that this sentiment won't take root here if the soil is prepared? Many of us saw the results of "us vs them" thinking in Bosnia and former Yugoslavia, and most of us are aware of the ever increasing popularity of Nativist political parties in Europe. We should all remember the rhetoric and actions of the PQ/BQ; our own, home grown nativist political movement.

So while we should all hope for the best, experience should tell us to be prepared for the worst.


Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 15, 2015, 10:10:55
This seems too ignorant not to be a hoax.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/13/watch-migrants-dislike-food-demand-tvs-threaten-go-back-syria/

Quote
In a performance of ingratitude so staggering it should almost be satire, a group of newly arrived migrants in the Netherlands have declared their accommodation so poor they want to go back to Syria.

Clearly used to appearing in front of a television camera, a glamorous, well-coiffured and made up Syrian migrant launches into a tirade against the generosity of Western European states. Gesturing to the modern accommodation building behind her, the clearly middle-class Syrian complains in perfect English: “This is not a life when you get inside to a room without a TV. Just a bed, there is no fridge, no lockers, no privacy”.

Telling the television crew why the group of 15 had walked out on their free accommodation and food, the woman said: “we’re going to stay outside because we don’t want to eat this food, and we don’t want to stay in the room. We’re running away from our country because of the situation, and now we live in a jail.


Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: BillN on November 15, 2015, 11:38:36
WOW, if they find Europe cold........welcome to Winterpeg :-)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 15, 2015, 11:39:13
I would tell them what I would tell a guest in my house if they complained my home is not...lavish enough for them;  the door locks people out, not in.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 17, 2015, 08:04:18
And the provinces are lining up with their positions ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: BurnDoctor on November 17, 2015, 10:34:29
So basically two premiers who possess critical-thinking skills, four who are delusional, and four who've had the political savvy to not comment yet.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 17, 2015, 11:35:14
So basically two premiers who possess critical-thinking skills, four who are delusional, and four who've had the political savvy to not comment yet.
To be entirely fair on the bit in yellow, I picked the lowest-hanging fruit stories - I could have Googled harder to get EVERY premier & territorial leader, but I didn't  ;D
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 17, 2015, 20:56:18
And it's not just Valcartier that's seeing social media opposition to refugees (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/refugee-controversy-in-goose-bay-1.3322572) - highlights mine ....
Quote
Labrador (Liberal) MP Yvonne Jones is still pushing to use facilities at 5 Wing Goose Bay to screen Syrian refugees entering Canada, and is taking on online comments that she says have crossed the line.

Jones told CBC Radio's Labrador Morning Tuesday that she understands that some residents have fears that are legitimate about her suggestion that CFB Goose Bay could help process refugees who have fled turmoil in Syria.

However, she said others are only spreading hate.

"They were just people that were very racist, very hateful in their comments," she said in an interview. 

"These are the kinds of attitudes that start wars in the first place."

Jones says that as a military community, Happy Valley-Goose Bay has a responsibility to step up when Canada is responding to crises, and that as many as 1,000 refugees could be screened through the base.

These refugees would not be permanent residents of the community, but would be processed in local facilities over a period of seven to 10 days.

This suggestion has created some backlash, however, both in the community and on the web. An online petition against using the military base as a processing centre has now garnered more than 650 names in support.

The petition says there are dangers that come with bringing refugees to the province, and that there is "no way possible to ensure who is a refugee and who might be coming with deadly intentions."

Jones said the negative comments are coming from all over the country, not just from Labrador, but comments in support of using the base greatly outweigh the negative comments online ....
Re:  that bit in yellow - really?  We'll see how that unfolds ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 17, 2015, 20:58:34
Housed in local facilities? With or without security checks? Are we posting guards? The only way I want them in Canada without a background check is behind fences with concertina wire on the top. Once they pass the security screening, doors wide open.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: dapaterson on November 17, 2015, 20:59:39
And it's not just Valcartier that's seeing social media opposition to refugees (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/refugee-controversy-in-goose-bay-1.3322572) - highlights mine ....Re:  that bit in yellow - really?  We'll see how that unfolds ....

Sounds like the community doesn't want a military presence, so let's abide by their wishes and close Goose Bay.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 17, 2015, 21:09:26
Bear with me, folks - I'm starting to separate the "refugees to Canada" posts into a thread of its own from the "refugees from Syria" thread.

I've moved this to Canadian Politics because it sounds like it'll be more than just the military involved.

Milnet.ca Staff
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 17, 2015, 21:29:13
Bear with me, folks - I'm starting to separate the "refugees to Canada" posts into a thread of its own from the "refugees from Syria" thread.

I've moved this to Canadian Politics because it sounds like it'll be more than just the military involved.

Milnet.ca Staff

Good idea, thanks!
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 17, 2015, 21:50:06
Thanks for your patience, all - back at 'er, then!  ;D
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Dimsum on November 17, 2015, 21:55:10
Sounds like the community doesn't want a military presence, so let's abide by their wishes and close Goose Bay.

 :nod: 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 17, 2015, 22:34:41
Cabinet Ministers:  Stand by for "the plan" (http://ipolitics.ca/2015/11/17/security-will-be-paramount-when-canada-welcomes-refugees-sajjan/) ....
Quote
Security will be at the forefront of the move to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada, Liberal ministers pledged Tuesday, promising a detailed plan to deliver on its promise will be announced in coming days.

“I think what we will do is make sure that security is at the forefront and we are in consultation with all of our security partners to make sure the we do this right,” Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan told reporters on his way out of a meeting of the cabinet committee on refugees.

“Security is paramount and we want to make sure we get it right,” said Sajjan, who avoided answering a direct question about which will take precedence – security or meeting the government’s deadline of January 1.

Sajjan’s comments came after a two-and-a-half hour meeting of the cabinet committee set up to draft the government’s plan to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by the end of the year. Those plans may have been complicated, however, by last week’s devastating terrorist attacks in Paris by ISIS inspired attackers.

The meeting included some of Canada’s top security officials, including National Security Advisor Richard Fadden, RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson and Chief of Defence Staff Jonathan Vance. Several officials appeared grim as they left the meeting, with Vance hurrying past reporters and refusing to answer any questions.

Liberal ministers, however, appeared much more upbeat and optimistic that a plan is only days away.

“There are an incredible number of very detailed plans that we have discussed, things are coming together nicely,” said Health Minister Jane Philpott.

“We’re going to have a very detailed plan available in the coming days that we will be making a formal announcement about. But as you can imagine there are still many details. We want to make sure that we do this right. It is a very important initiative on behalf of Canadians and we’re making sure that all the pieces are in place as they should be.”

Immigration Minister John McCallum suggested the plan might include transporting refugees to Canada immediately while the necessary checks are being carried out.

“We will welcome these refugees immediately,” McCallum responded when asked whether the 25,000 will be on Canadian soil by January 1. “There are processes under way but we will welcome them well, that is to say that we will pay due regard, total regard to issues of security and health which means we will do it rapidly but we will do it properly.” ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 18, 2015, 21:10:25
Part of the (possible) plan for Ontario:  put 'em up in old hospitals (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/syrian-refugees-housing-1.3324842) ....
Quote
Ontario is considering using recently decommissioned hospitals as one way to temporarily house a large influx of Syrian refugees expected in the province before the end of the year.

While the federal government has pledged to take in 25,000 refugees by the end of December, Ontario has committed to taking in 10,000 refugees by the end of next year.

Health Minister Eric Hoskins says Ontario doesn't yet know how many Ottawa will ask the province to take before the end of the year, but Ontario is prepared to receive its "fair share."

Hoskins says Ontario may also need to take in and support some refugees on an interim basis before they move to other provinces or territories.

He and Immigration Minister Michael Chan held an ad hoc cabinet committee meeting on Syrian refugees Tuesday during which housing, education, health and social services needs were discussed.

Hoskins says while the federal government looks at housing options such as military bases, the provincial government is looking at recently decommissioned hospitals as one option — some of them in the GTA.

"We have a new Humber River Hospital, for example, that moved from three sites into one and the new Oakville Hospital will be moving out of their existing premises," Hoskins told CBC News. "I'm not saying that is what will necessarily result in one of the places for accommodation but those are the opportunities I think we need to look at."

The federal government says that military bases may provide temporary accommodations until permanent homes are secured in new communities across Canada ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: mariomike on November 18, 2015, 21:14:50
^ "We have a new Humber River Hospital, for example, that moved from three sites into one" ^

That will empty Humber Memorial, York-Finch and Northwestern.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: tomahawk6 on November 18, 2015, 21:57:41
So far there is an interesting demographic of refugee's- 72% are male.Perhaps after they are settled with a job they will send money home or send for their families,if they are legitimate refugee's.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: GR66 on November 18, 2015, 22:40:52
So far there is an interesting demographic of refugee's- 72% are male.Perhaps after they are settled with a job they will send money home or send for their families,if they are legitimate refugee's.

That may be the demographic, but according to this article they're not the ones likely to make the cut.  The refugees being selected by Canada are to come from registered refugees in UN refugee camps primarily in Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon where they are already undergoing screening for suitability for relocation by the UNHCR.  The priority candidates it says are mothers with children, unaccompanied minors, the elderly and individuals with health issues.  The article says specifically that young, unattached males who may have been combatants or who cannot account for missing documents do not make the cut.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/18/syrian-refugees-will-face-three-levels-of-intense-screening.html (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/18/syrian-refugees-will-face-three-levels-of-intense-screening.html)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: tomahawk6 on November 18, 2015, 22:49:47
I wish Canada Bon Chance with your new immigrants.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 19, 2015, 07:26:17
Clever ISIS info op (http://globalnews.ca/news/2345100/new-isis-video-says-infidels-wont-welcome-refugees/) ....
Quote
The so-called Islamic State and right-leaning politicians agree on at least one thing: Muslim refugees aren’t welcome in Europe and North America.

A new propaganda video targets refugees fleeing violence – and ISIS itself – in Syria, saying these refugees won’t be welcome by “infidels” in the west.

It comes as leaders in Canada and the U.S. are calling for refugee resettlement programs to be halted.

“Why would the infidels welcome you in their country? Why would they share [with] families who left their lands and take them in?” an Arabic-speaking man asks.

“You are leaving your land for refuge to infidel countries who want you to leave your religion, the religion of Mohammad the Prophet.”

The recording was posted on YouTube Nov. 17, just four days after terrorist attacks in Paris left 129 people dead and more than 350 injured ....

Meanwhile, here's how one nordic nation is dealing with mo' refugees (http://www.thebarentsobserver.com/2015/11/former-military-camp-turned-arctic-migrants-center):
Quote
Former military camp turned into Arctic migrant center

Rajan is happy with the bed he got after three days on travel from Moscow, across Russia’s snowy Kola Peninsula towards the border to Norway. He is one of the first to be transferred to Reception Center Finnmark that opened on Wednesday.

“I don’t have a home in Nepal. I am homeless and moved to Moscow to get a job,” Rajan tells.

“In Moscow, I stayed for three months. Then I saw on TV that Norway’s border was open. It took me three days to travel,” the young Nepalese man says.

He is one of 300 migrants that have got a safe bed at the newly erected barracks at a former Home Guard camp next to the airport in Kirkenes. Officially opened by State Secretary Jøran Kallmyr in the Ministry of Justice and Public Security. Kallmyr gives little hope to many of the newly arrived migrants.

“It is obvious that many of those arriving from Russia nowadays don’t have a need for protection and therefor don’t have the right of asylum,” Jøran Kallmyr says.

“Our first priority now is to get them a roof. It is an extremely demanding situation and the staff works round-the-clock.” ....
Some of the photos from the slide show attached.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 19, 2015, 08:51:52
Reuters is reporting (http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0T727520151118), citing unnamed sources, that "Canada's government will inevitably have to cut some corners on security screening to achieve its ambitious goal of bringing in 25,000 Syrian refugees by year-end ..." Although both Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale and his spokesperson Josée Sirois were quoted,  those expressing "concerns" were not named, except for Rand Beers, a former deputy secretary of the U.S. Homeland Security Department.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 19, 2015, 13:39:49
A bit more detail - and an op name (PROVISION)- via French-language media (http://bit.ly/1j9Ibfc) - Google English translation below:
Quote
Current plans of the Department of National Defence provide that the Canadian Forces will provide temporary accommodation in bases in Quebec and Ontario, at first.

Other bases and locations could be used if the Canadian government planners requested it.

The Canadian Armed Forces are conducting a census of housing available in all bases and wings, in case they should be expected to lend a hand, but the details remain to be clarified.

Members who are temporarily based in Valcartier or that of Edmonton, for courses for example, could be "moved elsewhere based to free contiguous space for the refugees," said the Ministry of Defence in 45eNord .ca, which reminds that "no permanent resident Valcartier or Edmonton will be moved."

For now, no one in the different chains of command has issued a directive that Christmas leave of CAF members would be canceled. This could however be required to change depending on business need. It is clear however that the teams that will be in charge of the reception and management of refugees in the databases will be mobilized, including during the holidays, or at least will be "high availability" to respond quickly to a request if necessary . "The possibility that some have to work during the holiday season has not been ruled out," and the ministry said.

The winterization of certain places will be needed. Various options are under consideration and to enable the Canadian Forces to be ready to support this initiative. Some housing units in various Canadian Forces bases must be winterized to host refugees when they arrive on site.

The winterization of accommodation units will be particularly necessary to CFB Meaford and Borden, and preparations are underway.

Valcartier is also concerned, in particular the Cadet Camp, although the Ministry has remained silent about it. A contract of nearly $1.5 million was spent to enable a dozen dormitories to be ready. The work plan and the electricity will be resurfaced, the added heating, roof insulation and remade floor and adding ventilation.

To prepare for the arrival of refugees, three soldiers have been deployed to assist the Canadian Defence Attaché in Amman (Jordan), Ankara (Turkey) and Beirut (Lebanon). In addition, nine other soldiers were also deployed to act as liaison officers between Canada Command and Joint Operations attached to help them.

The Canadian Armed Forces continue to work with other government departments to plan and develop options to support government objectives.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on November 19, 2015, 18:08:56
Hmmm I just put this here



“project” means a physical activity that is carried out on federal lands or outside Canada in relation to a physical work and is not a designated project.

Project carried out on federal lands

67. An authority must not carry out a project on federal lands, or exercise any power or perform any duty or function conferred on it under any Act of Parliament other than this Act that could permit a project to be carried out, in whole or in part, on federal lands, unless

    (a) the authority determines that the carrying out of the project is not likely to cause significant adverse environmental effects; or

    (b) the authority determines that the carrying out of the project is likely to cause significant adverse environmental effects and the Governor in Council decides that those effects are justified in the circumstances under subsection 69(3).
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 20, 2015, 07:41:00
More details (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/refugees-temporary-military-housing-quebec-ontario-1.3326462), in English:
Quote
The Canadian Armed Forces are preparing to lodge hundreds of refugees at bases in Ontario and Quebec on a temporary basis as the government prepares to resettle 25,000 refugees by year's end.

The government has yet to say how it intends to meet its goal of resettling thousands in a limited timeframe, but an announcement is expected soon.

"The Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) is currently planning on providing interim lodging at bases in Quebec and Ontario as a priority," said Dominique Tessier, a media relations officer with the Department of National Defence, in an email to CBC News.

"Other bases and locations may be used if requested by government of Canada planners."

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale was asked on Wednesday about plans to resettle 1,000 refugees at CFB Trenton in Ontario and 500 refugees at CFB Valcartier in Quebec as early as Dec. 1.

"We recognize the urgency. We want to release the details as rapidly as possible," said Goodale, adding that the specifics would be announced by the immigration minister in the coming days.

Goodale and Immigration Minister John McCallum met with two of Quebec's ministers today to discuss the government's "ambitious" plan.

"We reiterated our commitment to respond swiftly to the ongoing crisis, and also to ensure that the health and security of the arriving refugees – and of all Canadians – remains paramount, and is not compromised in any way," said McCallum in a written statement issued Thursday night.

While municipal and provincial officials wait for a formal announcement, plans are afoot across various federal departments to assist the government with the herculean task of resettling a large number of refugees in a short period of time.

Immigration officials are working with the departments of health, public safety, and national defence to meet the government's self-imposed deadline ....
Also, this (http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/11/19/dnd-says-its-not-booting-soldiers-from-homes-to-make-way-for-syrian-refugees):
Quote
Canadian Armed Forces officials are attempting to quash a rumour that members of the military and their families are being forced out of barracks to make way for an influx of Syrian refugees.

After letters were sent to various bases in Ontario and Quebec inquiring about available accommodations, CAF offices were flooded with calls from “certain soldiers reacting to rumours they may be relocated,” according to a spokesman.

Evan Koronewski said the the Department of National Defence is exploring various “contingency planning” in anticipation of 25,000 refugees arriving on Canadian shores within the coming months, in keeping with prime minister Justin Trudeau’s pledge.

DND and the CAF “are ready to do everything they can to contribute to a ‘Whole of Government’ effort to assist the Syrian refugees,” according to a statement.

CAF confirmed it is reviewing accommodations available at bases and wings “should the CAF be called upon to provide assistance in that regard.”

The CAF said its intent was to use vacant spaces, and Koronewski confirmed no permanent residents of the barracks will be affected ....
Highlights & underlining mine ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 20, 2015, 08:11:45
The Ottawa Citizen reports that (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/government-gearing-up-to-house-refugees-in-temporary-shelters) costs ($1.2 Billion over six years) have been identified and funding is earmarked ($876.7 Million) for this year (2015-16) some of which ($116 Million) is already in place. DND will need almost $100 Million according to the report. It's not clear, from the report, exactly what costs DND will be expected to shoulder.

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 20, 2015, 08:15:22
The Ottawa Citizen reports that (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/government-gearing-up-to-house-refugees-in-temporary-shelters) costs ($1.2 Billion over six years) have been identified and funding is earmarked ($876.7 Million) for this year (2015-16) some of which ($116 Million) is already in place. DND will need almost $100 Million according to the report. It's not clear, from the report, exactly what costs DND will be expected to shoulder.
So far, only a bit of winterization of some houses @ Valcartier coming via MERX (http://bit.ly/1HcvFHp) ....
Quote
.... The work includes, but is not necessarily limited to, the supply of labour, material, supervision and equipment necessary to winterize 10 houses at the Cadet Camp, including among others, the replacement of power cables for the main electrical panels and the replacement of the main electrical panels, the installation of new electrical panels, the installation of an heating system, the additions of rails and fireproof curtains, the construction of new exterior walls, the construction of landings and treated wood steps, the installation of exterior doors, floor and roof insulation as well as the addition of a venting system. Also, the delivery and the installation of fireproof curtains in 3 additional houses shall be completed. The work must be carried out within a very short timeline, i.e. by December 30th, 2015 ....
Stand by, though ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 20, 2015, 08:38:42
Quote
The CAF said its intent was to use vacant spaces, and Koronewski confirmed no permanent residents of the barracks will be affected ....

I wonder what constitutes as permanent?  If I am living in barracks on IR I'm not permanent.   

I'm told there is also a year waiting list for PMQs. Will members who have been on the waiting list for a year be put out so refugees can move in?   I think people also need to realize vacant space (tents & transient buildings) doesn't automatically mean enough food and toilet facilities.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on November 20, 2015, 09:14:40
Being put up at the cadet camp in Valcartier starting in December: These poor people are about to get a rude introduction to Canadian winters and to Canada's wilderness.

Haven't been up there for a good while, but I seem to recall that at the cadet camp you definitely hear the sound of gunfire from the ranges and from the training areas. If so, is this good for the psychological well being of people that just escaped from a war zone? I wonder.

In any event, using military bases that way does not strike me as best for the refugees.

When they come into Canada the usual way, they have sponsors - usually church/mosque/temple groups or other community based charities - that take care of them, provide them with food, clothing, furniture and a place to live in the community, and then visit with them constantly to orient them, help them deal with new circumstances.

I have no doubt about the community spirit of the members of the CAF and their families, but they are not community workers or charities volunteers and they have another job to do on the base. Putting the refugee sort of away also, at the cadet camp, is enough physical separation that the refugees will not necessarily be on the mind of anyone not "tasked" with looking after them, and that I fear will leave them on their own where integration is concerned. I can only see this being fine if it is used as a clearing area for a week or two pending relocation inside the normal refugee channels employed in Canada (those community groups I mentioned above).
 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on November 20, 2015, 10:23:37
Being put up at the cadet camp in Valcartier starting in December: These poor people are about to get a rude introduction to Canadian winters and to Canada's wilderness.

Haven't been up there for a good while, but I seem to recall that at the cadet camp you definitely hear the sound of gunfire from the ranges and from the training areas. If so, is this good for the psychological well being of people that just escaped from a war zone? I wonder.

In any event, using military bases that way does not strike me as best for the refugees.

When they come into Canada the usual way, they have sponsors - usually church/mosque/temple groups or other community based charities - that take care of them, provide them with food, clothing, furniture and a place to live in the community, and then visit with them constantly to orient them, help them deal with new circumstances.

I have no doubt about the community spirit of the members of the CAF and their families, but they are not community workers or charities volunteers and they have another job to do on the base. Putting the refugee sort of away also, at the cadet camp, is enough physical separation that the refugees will not necessarily be on the mind of anyone not "tasked" with looking after them, and that I fear will leave them on their own where integration is concerned. I can only see this being fine if it is used as a clearing area for a week or two pending relocation inside the normal refugee channels employed in Canada (those community groups I mentioned above).

 :goodpost:

I fully agree that the yellow highlighted part is the best way to bring them into Canada, along with reuniting them with family who are already here.   It is not a rapid influx of thousands as made as an "Election Promise", but a much slower method that would seem to be less of a strain on Social and Medical Services, finances, and infrastructure requirements, as well as being much safer security wise.
 

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 20, 2015, 10:26:01
The Ministers (Immigration, Public Safety) chatted up Quebec politicos yesterday (http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1021359&tp=980) - highlights mine ....
Quote
    “.... Minister of Public Safety Ralph Goodale and I had the great pleasure of meeting with Kathleen Weil, Quebec’s Minister of Immigration, Diversity and Inclusiveness, and Pierre Moreau, Quebec’s Minister of Municipal Affairs and Land Occupancy and acting Minister of Public Security.

    “Our discussion focused on our plans to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada. The Government of Canada values our unique partnership with Quebec on immigration and refugee matters, as defined by the Canada-Quebec Accord. We are also holding consultations with our counterparts in other provinces and territories as we implement this significant, complex and compassionate humanitarian initiative.

    “In our meeting today, we reiterated our commitment to respond swiftly to the ongoing crisis, and also to ensure that the health and security of the arriving refugees – and of all Canadians – remains paramount, and is not compromised in any way.

    “In the coming days, we will provide Canadians with the details of our ambitious plan. Needless to say, the Government of Canada recognizes it is critical to have ongoing engagement and co-ordination with other levels of government, stakeholders, partners, and the Canadian public for the successful implementation of this plan.

    “As Minister of Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship, I am tremendously grateful for the collaboration and commitment of the government of Quebec, of other provinces and territories, and of all our domestic and international partners, as we continue to take action to help Syrian refugees rebuild their lives in our great country.”
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Journeyman on November 20, 2015, 10:49:58
In any event, using military bases that way does not strike me as best for the refugees.
Your entire post is both true...and completely irrelevant.

There are a significant number of military personnel right now whose throw-away COA of 'wringing hands and wishing what might have been' is long past.  Whether it's a steaming pile of feces or a brilliant humanitarian move no longer matters* for those whose focus is on, "OK, let's get this done."



* OK, except over a pint at the end of the day..... when its many fecal qualities are bemoaned.  ;)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 20, 2015, 11:44:42
Your entire post is both true...and completely irrelevant.

There are a significant number of military personnel right now whose throw-away COA of 'wringing hands and wishing what might have been' is long past.  Whether it's a steaming pile of feces or a brilliant humanitarian move no longer matters* for those whose focus is on, "OK, let's get this done."



* OK, except over a pint at the end of the day..... when its many fecal qualities are bemoaned.  ;)

 [;) Roger that.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Dimsum on November 20, 2015, 12:47:12
Your entire post is both true...and completely irrelevant.

There are a significant number of military personnel right now whose throw-away COA of 'wringing hands and wishing what might have been' is long past. 
Whether it's a steaming pile of feces or a brilliant humanitarian move no longer matters* for those whose focus is on, "OK, let's get this done."




* OK, except over a pint at the end of the day..... when its many fecal qualities are bemoaned.  ;)

Exactly. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 20, 2015, 14:29:46
This just out (http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1021579&tp=980) ....
Quote
Marie-Claude Landry, Chief Commissioner of the Canadian Human Rights Commission issues the following statement:

“The events in Paris and other recent tragedies are unspeakable. Our hearts go out to the victims and their families. Canada must work with its partners to ensure that those responsible for creating so much misery are held accountable. The security of all citizens should be of paramount concern to all governments.

“As Canadians, we have an obligation to do our part to help people who are genuinely in need of protection.

“Millions of innocent people are suffering tremendously in many countries in the Middle East. They are desperate for help from the international community. They want to live in a society where human rights are respected and where violence is not accepted. They long for safety, stability and the ability to make for themselves the lives they are able and wish to have.

“The Canadian Human Rights Commission believes that effective security measures and respect for human rights are perfectly compatible. We should be resolute in our efforts and shared goal to eradicate terrorism and we should be equally resolute in our respect for all human rights, now more than ever. We have to hold the terrorists responsible for their actions and not the ethnic and religious groups to which they are perceived to belong.

“I am very troubled to hear of reports of Muslims being targeted this week in different parts of Canada. We have also heard of great acts of kindness. The people of Peterborough, Ontario joined together to fight against hate after a local mosque was set on fire and raised more than enough money for repairs. Let’s follow their lead. Canadians are known for their generosity of heart, for their inclusiveness and empathy. We should never abandon those qualities which define us throughout the world.”
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on November 20, 2015, 15:24:27
Very nice statement, but completely none of her business.

It's not the place of the Human Rights Commission to make political statements on behalf of the government, which is what her statement is (it does not really cover any apparent problem with infractions to the human rights act and what the Commission intends to do about it - nor provide guidance on interpretation/application of a human right). If she wants to do that, she should get herself elected instead of appointed to a post that is supposed to independent and be above politics.
 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 20, 2015, 16:27:25
The latest? (http://www.cp24.com/news/liberals-say-details-on-refugee-resettlement-plan-to-be-revealed-tuesday-1.2667910)  More, next Tuesday ....
Quote
The Liberal government says it will release details next Tuesday of its plan to settle 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year.

The program -- which could cost as much as $1.2 billion over the next six years -- will involve several government departments as well as the military in a co-ordinated effort to take in some of the most vulnerable people who have fled the war in Syria over the last four years.

The potential cost for the program was contained in a document obtained by The Canadian Press that says the rapid resettlement effort could require as much as $876 million this year alone.

Immigration Minister John McCallum wouldn't comment on the cash required, saying that will be part of the information coming out next week ....
:pop:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 20, 2015, 17:36:51
Meanwhile, this via the government's buying page (http://bit.ly/1T4SZbo) - also attached if link doesn't work:
Quote
The Government of Canada is seeking interested companies that have the capacity, capability and availability to provide leasing, management and servicing of temporary winterized lodgings for groups of 500-3000 people by early December 2015at sites to be confirmed.

The purpose of this posting is to generate a list of possible suppliers that would be interested in being provided a copy of future solicitation(s) relating to the type of goods or services identified in the requirements described below.

Canada may, at its discretion, decide to only contact or solicit bids from supplier(s) that have responded to this LOI.

Requirements

General

    Lodging and services for 500 – 3000 people at the same location
    Lodging and services may be required for up to 3 months
    Lodging and services must be self-contained/sustaining (on-site energy, water, sewage, waste management, recycling)

Reception Centre Area

    Information centre to welcome, process and provide info to residents
    Complex management and administration work area (office space).

Lodging

    Clusters of housing units to facilitate individuals and large families.
    Storage areas (number TBD)
    Shower and washroom facilities
    Drinking water availability
    Health clinic facility for up to 6 people at a time.

Management services

    Catering
    Housekeeping
    Laundry Service
    Waste management
    Recycling
    Sewage processing/removal
    Wifi Access and/or computer lab with internet access (computers to be provided separately by others)
    Telephone availability and connection

(....)

Suppliers that meet the requirements above will be added to a Source List to support similar future requirements. Suppliers may be required to sign a non-disclosure agreement to be eligible for the Source List ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on November 20, 2015, 17:38:39
So they are looking for hotels and motels in the middle of summer cottage regions.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: GAP on November 20, 2015, 17:43:46
Hmmm.....how do I get myself a Syrian Passport?......

Oh wait, they'll be lots lying around when they leave.......silly me.....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 20, 2015, 17:45:42
So they are looking for hotels and motels in the middle of summer cottage regions.
Thinking outside the box, cruise ships could fit most of those requirements, too - never been on a cruise, so I don't know about phone connections.

I'm guessing the PWGSC contact person listed in the posting has been a pretty busy guy over the past day or so.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Privateer on November 20, 2015, 18:24:32
Vancouver real estate magnate offers up building for Syrian refugees
link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-real-estste-developer-ian-gillespie-syrian-refugees-1.3327123 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-real-estste-developer-ian-gillespie-syrian-refugees-1.3327123)

Quote
Vancouver property developer Ian Gillespie is refurbishing and furnishing a 12-unit property in the city's West End in order to provide temporary accommodations for Syrian refugees.

Gillespie, founder of Westbank Developments, has offered the building to the Immigrant Services Society to be used as first-stop housing for refugees waiting for permanent homes in B.C.

"For me, it started with what I'm best able to do," Gillespie told CBC News on Thursday.

"Some can volunteer time, donate money.… We're in the property business, so it seemed an obvious place to start."

The company did an audit, he said, and found that the unit — scheduled for demolition as part of a major redevelopment by the company — was sitting empty while waiting for city permits to come through.

Gillespie, just this week named No. 1 on Vancouver magazine's Power 50 list, called the Immigrant Services Society offering a minimum commitment of four months' use.

"I don't even think he finished his sentence before I said yes," the group's Chris Friesen told CBC News.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on November 20, 2015, 18:55:27
Thinking outside the box, cruise ships could fit most of those requirements, too - never been on a cruise, so I don't know about phone connections.

I'm guessing the PWGSC contact person listed in the posting has been a pretty busy guy over the past day or so.

Yes, that would work. Phone is no problem while the ship is in harbour.

Two problems, though: Not a single cruise ship flies the Canadian flag and the next six months are the super high season for cruises (Northern Hemisphere winter).
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brad Sallows on November 20, 2015, 23:22:06
"Canada's government will inevitably have to cut some corners on security screening to achieve its ambitious goal of bringing in 25,000 Syrian refugees by year-end ..."

That would be inappropriate if it turned out to be true.

As progressives are fond of pointing out, taxes are what we pay for the services we receive.

One of the services Canadians pay taxes for is to not be the victims of someone who should not be admitted to the country, but is admitted because short cuts are taken in order to satisfy the virtue posturing of those who suddenly took an interest in one particular source of refugees because a picture of a child's corpse showed up in their Facebook feeds.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Scoobs on November 21, 2015, 00:13:12
It's interesting to try to watch the refugee discussion that is ongoing in Canada while being posted OUTCAN. 

FYI, here's what it is like in the States:

-huge ongoing discussion about bringing 10,000 (yes, only 10,000) Syrian refugees to the States;
-there's no deadline to get them here (interesting, eh?);
-Obama basically wants to go full steam ahead;
-the Republicans and some Democrats want it slowed down (the House of Representatives passed a bill that would effectively do this, but it still has to go through their Senate.  Obama has stated that he will veto it.  This will be interesting as both the House and Senate can override a Presidential veto if they have 2/3 support in each, which they did in the House);
-more than half of the State Governors have stated that the refugees are not welcome, although the general consensus is that they have no legal basis to do that;
-there is real fear amongst the Americans.  Some of my wife's American friends have curtailed their travel to NYC as they are really scared;
-that being said, NYC is still functioning as New Yorkers tend to be of the opinion, "hey, we gotta live life";
-there is a firm belief that the security clearing is insufficient (remember, they don't have a deadline like Canada); and
-of course, there are very extreme views on both sides.

Now, compare this to Canada (this includes some of my opinions):

-an election promise has somehow turned into a firm and hard deadline.  Besides the Government of Canada telling us to do it (which is of course what we will follow so please no statements like, "because the Government told us to"), can someone give me an operational reason why 31 Dec / 1 Jan 16 is such an important date?  I'm not being sarcastic, is there one?
-10,000 vs 25,000, that's a considerable difference between what the US and Canada are taking, respectively; and
-if the vast majority of the refugees are being taken out of camps in Jordan, Turkey, and Lebanon, what's the rush?  Are they in danger there?  It is my understanding that they are not as after all, we are being told that a large number of them have been in the subject camps for approx 4 years now.


Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brad Sallows on November 21, 2015, 00:42:12
I still have the same question I asked in the post which split this off: why are these refugees more deserving and in need of front-of-the-line privileges than any others?  (I get that it's a public pose for most people; I'm asking if there is really anything beyond that.)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on November 21, 2015, 12:52:10
Rumour mil reports that Pers in shacks in kingston just got told that they were being moved to older shacks to make way for refugees.

Curious how they're going to secure 1 EW, 1 div HQ, and CFJSR
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 21, 2015, 14:28:32
So kick the troops out of their current shacks so they can live in the old ones.  Sorry, I don't agree with this.   ::)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Cloud Cover on November 21, 2015, 14:38:55
So kick the troops out of their current shacks so they can live in the old ones.  Sorry, I don't agree with this.   ::)

I dont agree with it either, but in the end, one has to wonder why any accommodations on a CFB base are substandard. the answer lies in  the fact the successive governments from 1968 to the present have not adequately funded base maintenance, they wouldn't even pay the cost of demolishing or refurbishing outdated buildings, even though for more the 25 years they have a list of those buildings. That especially includes PM Harper, who in his final years in office spent less on defence (GDP) than PET(by GDP).         
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 21, 2015, 14:43:29
Couldn't resist a Harper dig, could you? Underfunding base facilities is a bi-partisan issue. It's not especially attributable to anyone.

Has CBC gotten a story out that soldiers are being evicted (without proper notice)? I think its an important issue that Trudeau needs to answer to.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Cloud Cover on November 21, 2015, 14:51:12
Just calling a spade a spade. I wish he were a diamond. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: MCG on November 21, 2015, 16:11:06
... they wouldn't even pay the cost of demolishing or refurbishing outdated buildings, ...
There have been plenty of buildings demolished in the last few years to reduce PILT and other associated costs.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Old Sweat on November 21, 2015, 16:22:40
The rumour net is working overtime and there is no end of speculation about the reception plans. It may be a very interesting four years, but let's wait and see what Tuesday brings.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Dimsum on November 21, 2015, 16:31:57
The rumour net is working overtime and there is no end of speculation about the reception plans. It may be a very interesting four years, but let's wait and see what Tuesday brings.

Exactly, and I'll bring up Journeyman's post from this very thread:

There are a significant number of military personnel right now whose throw-away COA of 'wringing hands and wishing what might have been' is long past.  Whether it's a steaming pile of feces or a brilliant humanitarian move no longer matters for those whose focus is on, "OK, let's get this done."
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 21, 2015, 17:57:35
"Canada's government will inevitably have to cut some corners on security screening to achieve its ambitious goal of bringing in 25,000 Syrian refugees by year-end ..."

That would be inappropriate if it turned out to be true.

As progressives are fond of pointing out, taxes are what we pay for the services we receive.

One of the services Canadians pay taxes for is to not be the victims of someone who should not be admitted to the country, but is admitted because short cuts are taken in order to satisfy the virtue posturing of those who suddenly took an interest in one particular source of refugees because a picture of a child's corpse showed up in their Facebook feeds.

Quote
Reuters is reporting, citing unnamed sources, that "Canada's government will inevitably have to cut some corners on security screening to achieve its ambitious goal of bringing in 25,000 Syrian refugees by year-end ..."

So how about we wait for the fricken plan before we declare it to be junk, instead of quoting that famous Chinese strategist, Sum Gi, to feed our own preconceived notions?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Haggis on November 21, 2015, 18:07:40
So how about we wait for the fricken plan before we declare it to be junk, instead of quoting that famous Chinese strategist, Sum Gi, to feed our own preconceived notions?

Because Sum Gi and his cousin Buddi are the most prolific and popular sources of information in the absence of official direction.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brad Sallows on November 21, 2015, 18:22:46
>So how about we wait for the fricken plan before we declare it to be junk, instead of quoting that famous Chinese strategist, Sum Gi, to feed our own preconceived notions?

Better to express reservations beforehand, the better to prevent someone from promulgating junk.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 21, 2015, 20:13:41
My suspicions

1. The $$$ figure we've recently been given regarding the cost of housing and supporting our new guests will rapidly go the way of the F35 project and end up being a hell of a lot more.

2. Our new guests will be placed in these winterized accommodations,  complain about how shitty it is,  and rapidly be moved into much more comfortable living quarters.  See below.

3. Our military members will be moved from quarters they're presently living in to other quarters,  including being "down graded".

4. Security will be compromised for image. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: MCG on November 21, 2015, 20:13:59
>So how about we wait for the fricken plan before we declare it to be junk, instead of quoting that famous Chinese strategist, Sum Gi, to feed our own preconceived notions?

Better to express reservations beforehand, the better to prevent someone from promulgating junk.
It is called a strawman.  Making-up conditions that are easy to attack, and then attacking the false reality to undermine what is real.

Constructive critisism would describe the conditions necessary for success.  Instead, this thread has its share of posts taking shots from positions of ignorance.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brad Sallows on November 22, 2015, 02:59:01
There's nothing "made up" about the widespread belief - "expert opinion", where experts hold it - that the deadline for moving the desired number of refugees is too aggressive.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 22, 2015, 19:03:43
There is a picture circulating around social media that some soldiers in Kingston got. Members presently living in single quarters in certain buildings need to pack their bags and move into 4 person rooms to make room for our guests to use the single rooms.  I'm just guessing but I can't imagine they'll try to cram whole families in this single rooms.  I hope whole barracks buildings are given over to our guests and they're not placed piecemeal.


Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 22, 2015, 19:54:42
Maybe they'll put them in the Dawe Building, so they can trash them like the Kosovars did to Sherman Hall. That way, all of our barracks can be $@#!holes that DND overcharges for.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Scoobs on November 23, 2015, 02:01:30
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/troops-clearing-space-at-cfb-kingston-for-syrian-refugees-1.2670111

Graham Slaughter, CTVNews.ca Staff
Published Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:25PM EST

Soldiers and military personnel at a Kingston, Ont. base are being asked to clear their barracks to make room for an early wave of Syrian refugees arriving in just over a week, CTV News has learned.
Multiple residences at CFB Kingston are being cleared for Nov. 30 to house the refugees, according to an internal memo obtained by CTV News.
The orders will also affect some officer cadets attending the Royal Military College, many of whom are nearing exams.

Sources tell CTV News that several military bases across Canada are gearing up to host Syrian refugees.
 
On Tuesday, the government is expected to reveal more details of its plan to resettle 25,000 Syrians by the end of the year.
And while the memo warns of the fast-approaching deadline, it does not indicate where military personnel will be resettled. However, it does say a place will be found for the personnel.
The notice comes just two days after Minister of Immigration and Refugees John McCallum reaffirmed the government’s plan to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of 2015.
“We are determined to bring refugees here quickly, but we are also determined to do it right in terms of security and in terms of health,” he said.
“This is the right thing to do,” he added. “It is the Canadian way.”
Sources also tell CTV News that several bases across the country are gearing up to host the newcomers, with a maximum capacity of about 12,000 Syrian refugees.
Earlier this month, CTV News reported details from a document entitled “Operation Syrian Refugees” that suggested up to 900 Syrian refugees a day could arrive in Toronto and Montreal from Lebanon, Jordan and possibly Turkey.
Those arrivals could begin as soon as soon as Dec. 1, the report suggested.
The document also identified places such as Cornwall, Ont. and Trois-Rivières, Que. as possible sites for temporary accommodation.
The document suggested refugees would be identified overseas by the United Nations and then screened by Canadian officials on the ground.
The refugees would be screened once again in Canada before receiving permanent resident status, the document said.
The government is expected to confirm its plan Tuesday.
In the past, military bases have been used to house newcomers to Canada. In 1999, 5,000 refugees from Kosovo were divided between two military bases: CFB Greenwood in Nova Scotia and CFB Trenton in Ontario.
Despite short notice, the plan was executed successfully, according to retired Brig.-Gen. Gaston Cloutier, who was on the Trenton base at the time.
“It was hard work, but it was done properly,” he told CTV’s Power Play last month.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 23, 2015, 07:22:18
This from CBC.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-refugee-plan-women-children-families-1.3330185?cid=) - highlights mine....
Quote
The federal government's much-anticipated Syrian refugee plan will limit those accepted into Canada to women, children and families only, CBC News has learned.

Sources tell CBC News that to deal with some ongoing concerns around security, unaccompanied men seeking asylum will not be part of the program.

The details of the plan will be announced Tuesday, but already Canadian officials have been working on the ground to process people.

In the last six weeks alone, Canadian authorities have managed to screen about 100 people a day in Lebanon to help the government reach its ambitious of target of getting 25,000 Syrian refugees here by the end of the year.

These are on top of the refugees being processed by the United Nations Refugee Agency.

(....)

As many as 900 refugees a day are expected to arrive from Turkey, Jordan and Beirut. The vast majority of them will arrive in Toronto and Montreal.

Sources say most of the newcomers will initially be housed in military bases, which have been preparing for their arrival. Other kinds of housing will also be used, including hotels and abandoned hospitals.

But sources also say the government will stay away from calling any of these temporary housing locations "camps" — perhaps to stay away from the notion that refugee camps are typically large-scale and temporary, often using tents.

Refugees will not be housed in tents in Canada.

Moreover, once in Canada, officials broadly expect refugees to be "mobile" in about a month's time: While thousands of people may arrive temporarily in one location, they may quickly disperse throughout Canada.

There had been some initial concerns about trying to "contain" refugees to any given location for too long, given that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees mobility rights. Those rights apply to refugees once they arrive in Canada and could open the government up to potential legal problems, if applied ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 23, 2015, 09:12:21
Maybe the military will give CF members who were ordered to move a break and let them stay in other military accommodations rent free.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on November 23, 2015, 09:55:14
I really love how everyone is patting themselves on their back over the fact that we have housed refugees on military installations in the past, in some cases with little warning.  A nice feel good feeling.  What do we hear of the condition of those facilities after the refugees have left?  Very little.  Is the cost of repairs or demolition of those facilities taken into account by the people advocating housing these refugees, or is it just a afterthought that DND/CAF must make up after all is said and done?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 23, 2015, 10:01:42
Maybe the military will give CF members who were ordered to move a break and let them stay in other military accommodations rent free.

Hahaha.

They'll likely charge them for cleaning the room when they vacate, and charge to have cable/phone/internet reconnected.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 23, 2015, 10:08:43
Hahaha.

They'll likely charge them for cleaning the room when they vacate, and charge to have cable/phone/internet reconnected.

Get the IRP consultants right on that.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: cavalryman on November 23, 2015, 10:56:08
I really love how everyone is patting themselves on their back over the fact that we have housed refugees on military installations in the past, in some cases with little warning.  A nice feel good feeling.  What do we hear of the condition of those facilities after the refugees have left?  Very little.  Is the cost of repairs or demolition of those facilities taken into account by the people advocating housing these refugees, or is it just a afterthought that DND/CAF must make up after all is said and done?
Virtue signalling by the bien pensants has little to do with the facts or the aftermath of decisions.  Stop trying to inject reality into the discussion.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 23, 2015, 11:00:49
Maybe the military will give CF members who were ordered to move a break and let them stay in other military accommodations rent free.

Put them on FOA and put them up in tents.   [lol:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Nuggs on November 23, 2015, 11:02:06
Put them on FOA and put them up in tents.   [lol:
Don't give them ideas lol
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on November 23, 2015, 11:15:17
I really love how everyone is patting themselves on their back over the fact that we have housed refugees on military installations in the past, in some cases with little warning.  A nice feel good feeling.  What do we hear of the condition of those facilities after the refugees have left?  Very little.  Is the cost of repairs or demolition of those facilities taken into account by the people advocating housing these refugees, or is it just a afterthought that DND/CAF must make up after all is said and done?

Let's not forget that most of the long term costs of managing and caring for these people for the next 5-10 years will be borne by the Provincial and Municipal government, who will likely not see a dime of extra funding.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 23, 2015, 11:37:07
Put them on FOA and put them up in tents.   [lol:

And if soldiers don't like it they can quit!



Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 23, 2015, 11:47:50
And if soldiers don't like it they can quit!

With six months notice that ought to cover it...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on November 23, 2015, 12:30:11
This from CBC.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-refugee-plan-women-children-families-1.3330185?cid=) - highlights mine....

As long as they really keep the single fighting aged males out of the country.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 23, 2015, 12:40:47
I really love how everyone is patting themselves on their back over the fact that we have housed refugees on military installations in the past, in some cases with little warning.  A nice feel good feeling.  What do we hear of the condition of those facilities after the refugees have left?  Very little.  Is the cost of repairs or demolition of those facilities taken into account by the people advocating housing these refugees, or is it just a afterthought that DND/CAF must make up after all is said and done?

They are not "the military's barracks" they are government facilities, which the government can use as they see fit.  The CDs has made it very clear that the CAF will not be the limfac in this operation - and for all of the right reasons.  How about we a) wait for the plan, b) follow direction, and c) find a little of the milk of human kindness inside our shrivelled little hearts.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on November 23, 2015, 12:47:18
You mean like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGSs33DQ1F0  ;D
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: RomeoJuliet on November 23, 2015, 13:00:35
You mean like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGSs33DQ1F0  ;D

Well said, well said indeed.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 23, 2015, 13:19:00
There's no doubt about it the barracks will be trashed and require renovations afterwards.


If it's true that we will only be accepting families I think it's a brilliant move that will significantly reduce the security concerns so many Canadians have.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 23, 2015, 13:46:06
There's no doubt about it the barracks will be trashed and require renovations afterwards.


If it's true that we will only be accepting families I think it's a brilliant move that will significantly reduce the security concerns so many Canadians have.

It certainly reduces the odds of a breach.  Nothing is impossible but it seems like a prudent COA.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 23, 2015, 14:03:18
Put them on FOA and put them up in tents.   [lol:

Or put them in tents, but with wooden pallet floors and hessian;  no FOA required.   >:D
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 23, 2015, 15:58:39
CTV News has a report (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/troops-clearing-space-at-cfb-kingston-for-syrian-refugees-1.2670111), without too much in the way of official confirmation, that some soldiers, in Kingston, at least, have been given only three days' notice to clear out of some barracks.

The media will make hay, at the CF's expense, until someone gets out front with a plan.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 23, 2015, 16:16:40
The media will make hay, at the CF's expense, until someone gets out front with a plan.
:nod:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: thejadepixie on November 23, 2015, 17:17:05
CTV News has a report (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/troops-clearing-space-at-cfb-kingston-for-syrian-refugees-1.2670111), without too much in the way of official confirmation, that some soldiers, in Kingston, at least, have been given only three days' notice to clear out of some barracks.

The media will make hay, at the CF's expense, until someone gets out front with a plan.
Some people were told last Friday they had a week to move out. Myself and a bunch of others on course were just told today to be ready to move out by Wednesday. The weird thing is the refugees aren't even moving into our shacks. They're going elsewhere on the base. So the reason for us to move is silly. No clue either where we'll be moved to. It's very frustrating as the course I'm on is stressful enough with tests every few days. Now having to deal with packing all my things up on top it all is not fun.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 23, 2015, 18:02:30
Myself and a bunch of others on course were just told today to be ready to move out by Wednesday. The weird thing is the refugees aren't even moving into our shacks. They're going elsewhere on the base. So the reason for us to move is silly.

I'm completely shocked by this  ::)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 23, 2015, 18:07:21
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/gay-men-will-be-included-among-syrian-refugees-in-addition-to-women-children-families

Quote



The federal government will include gay men among the Syrian refugees it brings into Canada as part of a plan that puts the focus on accepting women, children and families.

The Citizen has learned that while the Liberal government, because of potential security concerns, will not accept lone males — at least during the first wave of migrants — this approach will come with an important caveat. The government is sensitive to the fact that gay men escaping violence in the region could be persecuted, so they will be permitted to come to Canada.

The government plans to make good on its election commitment to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by the end of December. The details of the ambitious plan will be announced Tuesday.

In a statement Monday, NDP Leader Tom Mulcair said the government needs to show more transparency about which refugees are allowed in and which are excluded.

“While security concerns remain of vital importance, will a young man, who lost both parents, be excluded from the refugee program?” Mulcair asked in his statement.

“Will a gay man who is escaping persecution be excluded? Will a widower who is fleeing Daesh (another name for the Islamic States) after having seen his family killed be excluded? This is not the Canadian way.”

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Minister John McCallum has promised to release details of the refugee plan Tuesday.


Who wants to bet all of the single males self-identify as being gay  ;D

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 23, 2015, 18:10:41
Some people were told last Friday they had a week to move out. Myself and a bunch of others on course were just told today to be ready to move out by Wednesday. The weird thing is the refugees aren't even moving into our shacks. They're going elsewhere on the base. So the reason for us to move is silly. No clue either where we'll be moved to. It's very frustrating as the course I'm on is stressful enough with tests every few days. Now having to deal with packing all my things up on top it all is not fun.

No doubt even more stressful than being relocated to a strange country because your government was dropping barrel bombs on you and your children.

Like as not, you are being moved as part of an effort to consolidate the housing plan so that it makes sense, and frees up space for those annoying refugee families.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: thejadepixie on November 23, 2015, 18:23:16
As I stated in my original post, the refugees are not moving into our shacks. Instead they're shuffling everyone around on base from one building to another. The people who are giving up their shacks to the refugees are taking over our building, which is full of people(approx 130-150) currently on course. Our staff opposes the idea of moving us and are trying to fight the decision as it's completely unnecessary.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 23, 2015, 18:30:18
As I stated in my original post, the refugees are not moving into our shacks. Instead they're shuffling everyone around on base from one building to another. The people who are giving up their shacks to the refugees are taking over our building, which is full of people(approx 130-150) currently on course. Our staff opposes the idea of moving us and are trying to fight the decision as it's completely unnecessary.


Just so you know, that whooshing sound was this going right over your head:

Quote
No doubt even more stressful than being relocated to a strange country because your government was dropping barrel bombs on you and your children.

And as I said, and you have confirmed, you are being relocated as part of plan to rationalise the allocation of available space.

Quote
Like as not, you are being moved as part of an effort to consolidate the housing plan so that it makes sense, and frees up space for those annoying refugee families.

You do realise that you may be asked, in the course of your career, to occasionally sacrifice your own comfort and convenience in the process of achieving an assigned mission or task, right?

Never mind.  Better get back to your stressful studying.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Blackadder1916 on November 23, 2015, 18:31:11
I really love how everyone is patting themselves on their back over the fact that we have housed refugees on military installations in the past, in some cases with little warning.  A nice feel good feeling.  What do we hear of the condition of those facilities after the refugees have left?  Very little.  Is the cost of repairs or demolition of those facilities taken into account by the people advocating housing these refugees, or is it just a afterthought that DND/CAF must make up after all is said and done?

There's no doubt about it the barracks will be trashed and require renovations afterwards.
. . .

What makes anyone think that temporary accommodations (military owned or otherwise) provided for these refugees will be damaged by them?  While my personal experience with a similar operation (OP MAGNET II) was limited to the Southeast Asian boat people who were housed  at Griesbach, I don't think that the situation would have been much different at the other locations.  The accommodations (which in Griesbach were the barrack blocks that, with the exception of a very few JRs who worked and lived down there, were primarily used as temporary shacks for pers on course at CABC or for militia during the summer) were not "handed over" to the refugees to have free run of the place.  We still managed the facilities and there were staff on duty 24 hours a day.  While the operation lasted over the space of several months, individual refugees (or families) did not spend the entire time at these locations.  After arrival in Canada (Edmonton was one of the APODs) the refuges were moved to their accommodations for the processing.  While I don't have any official stats on how long the average stay was, I would guesstimate about one month was the maximum before the new arrival moved on.  There was no hard and fast rule, it all depended on how quickly arrangements could be made (usually through a civilian non-profit or church group) to resettle them somewhere in Canada.  Quite a few settled in Edmonton, and, a few years later when I was posted back there, much enjoyed the Vietnamese restaurant scene.  Even "re-met" one owner who recognized me from his time at Griesbach.

As for the condition of the barracks following their use by the refugees, probably no worse than if they had been temporarily occupied by a battalion of soldiers for several months.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: JesseWZ on November 23, 2015, 18:41:09
As I stated in my original post, the refugees are not moving into our shacks. Instead they're shuffling everyone around on base from one building to another. The people who are giving up their shacks to the refugees are taking over our building, which is full of people(approx 130-150) currently on course. Our staff opposes the idea of moving us and are trying to fight the decision as it's completely unnecessary.

And persons from my unit are being asked to give up Christmas with their families in order to deploy on short notice for this Domestic Op. Whether they agree with the decision to bring them or not, they still will support the government mandate and carry it out. That's what being in the Canadian Forces is all about. We do the bidding of the government, not the other way around.

Welcome to the club where Service before Self is the mantra. If you don't like it, leave now. It will save your section from your belly-aching later.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 23, 2015, 18:50:18
In the past, military bases have been used to house newcomers to Canada. In 1999, 5,000 refugees from Kosovo were divided between two military bases: CFB Greenwood in Nova Scotia and CFB Trenton in Ontario.
Despite short notice, the plan was executed successfully, according to retired Brig.-Gen. Gaston Cloutier, who was on the Trenton base at the time.
“It was hard work, but it was done properly,” he told CTV’s Power Play last month.

Even the most basic internet search would have helped with accuracy in reporting.   ::)

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/di-ri-eng.asp?IntlOpId=196&CdnOpId=236

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 23, 2015, 19:16:30


Welcome to the club where Service before Self is the mantra. If you don't like it, leave now. It will save your section from your belly-aching later.

In all fairness Sarahs staff of NCOs and Officers are apparently not on board with playing shacks hot potato either.  I'm guessing they feel the move can be accomplished with less people being effected.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 23, 2015, 19:32:43
In all fairness Sarahs staff of NCOs and Officers are apparently not on board with playing shacks hot potato either.  I'm guessing they feel the move can be accomplished with less people being effected.

Granted...and moot.  I doubt that they are aware of the myriad factors that go into establishing and maintaining a base housing plan when you feed in an additional and significant demand with little notice.  I will also give them the benefit of the doubt, which is that they do not know the higher commander's intent, vice simply paying it no heed.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on November 23, 2015, 19:49:54
Granted...and moot.  I doubt that they are aware of the myriad factors that go into establishing and maintaining a base housing plan when you feed in an additional and significant demand with little notice.  I will also give them the benefit of the doubt, which is that they do not know the higher commander's intent, vice simply paying it no heed.

 >:D

Devils Advocate:  You are under the impression that the persons in Base Accommodations are of the highest calibre.   If they are not, then they are creating more havoc than necessary.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on November 23, 2015, 19:56:03
As for the condition of the barracks following their use by the refugees, probably no worse than if they had been temporarily occupied by a battalion of soldiers for several months.

Only if the Snr NCO Corps has dropped to such low levels of management and leadership would such a statement be true.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: ringo on November 23, 2015, 20:50:52
How many are moving into Trudeau's neighbourhood?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 23, 2015, 22:22:46
How many are moving into Trudeau's neighbourhood?

Probably more than in yours....

Quote
Papineau is a federal electoral district in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, that has been represented in the House of Commons of Canada from 1948 to 1988 and since 2004. Its population in 2006 was 101,019. Justin Trudeau, who is currently Prime Minister of Canada and Leader of the Liberal Party, has represented the riding since the 2008 federal election.

The name of the riding comes from a street in the Villeray neighbourhood, named after Joseph Papineau.

At nine square kilometres, it covers the smallest area of any federal riding in Canada. Linguistically, 45% of residents list French as their mother tongue, 8% list English, and 47% list neither English nor French, with large groups speaking Spanish, Italian, Greek and Arabic. The total immigrant population is 40 per cent.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Strike on November 23, 2015, 22:29:54
How many are moving into Trudeau's neighbourhood?

Oh, about 25,000. He is the PM and therefore all of Canada could be considered is his 'hood.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: chevalnoir on November 23, 2015, 22:44:21
I've spent more time in the Kingston shacks than I care to remember, and only two things come to mind:
-Most of the shacks are well past the point where a few thousand refugees, or a herd of rampaging buffaloes for that matter, could inflict significant additional damage
-I've never yet been there for more than a month without at least one change of quarters to make someone's re-organization brainchild come true. If you're lucky, you just move rooms between adjacent buildings and you have a few days notice. If you're unlucky, you move to the other side of the base, and you have maybe two hours notice. One course involved 5 moves for a 4 1/2 month course. And yes, we had tests every few days too. It sucks. But it's part of living in the shacks, at least in Kingston. Only without refugees involved, no one cares.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 23, 2015, 22:57:29
Oh, about 25,000. He is the PM and therefore all of Canada could be considered is his 'hood.

Zing!
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 23, 2015, 23:08:09
This from CBC.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-refugee-plan-women-children-families-1.3330185?cid=) - highlights mine....
The federal government's much-anticipated Syrian refugee plan will limit those accepted into Canada to women, children and families only, CBC News has learned.

Sources tell CBC News that to deal with some ongoing concerns around security, unaccompanied men seeking asylum will not be part of the program.

The details of the plan will be announced Tuesday, but already Canadian officials have been working on the ground to process people.

In the last six weeks alone, Canadian authorities have managed to screen about 100 people a day in Lebanon to help the government reach its ambitious of target of getting 25,000 Syrian refugees here by the end of the year.

These are on top of the refugees being processed by the United Nations Refugee Agency.

Perhaps these are the details that need to be pushed out loud and clear to appease Joe and Jane Concerned Taxpayer who are concerned about "who" is actually coming after the realities being experienced in Europe, for example, have raised valid concerns.

If the details in the CBC news article are true, it would be beneficial if they were made part of a more formal announcement (which may have happened and I missed it?).
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: MCG on November 23, 2015, 23:21:30
What makes anyone think that temporary accommodations (military owned or otherwise) provided for these refugees will be damaged by them? 
Bigotry (or prejudice) makes it easy to prejudge any situation with absolute certainty when one party can be referred as "these people."
 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brad Sallows on November 23, 2015, 23:33:46
>Soldiers and military personnel at a Kingston, Ont. base are being asked to clear their barracks

That doesn't quite have the ring of truth.

Notwithstanding my own whinging about facets of the undertaking, has the Statement of Defence Ethics changed or is it still:
1. Respect the Dignity of All Persons
2. Serve Canada before Self
3. Obey and Support Lawful Authority

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 24, 2015, 00:06:48
It is actually somewhat more detailed... :)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about/statement-of-defence-ethics.page
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 24, 2015, 00:11:41
Anyone who's  been in uniform has gotten those change rooms/change buildings orders where someone is panicking that the world will end if you don't move in the next two hours.   Naturally people will ***** about it and then move cause really at the end of the day it's just dragging some kit around.

The thing with this I think is the bad optics to the public.  They don't see  someone moving their crap across a street to a new building they read about Canadian soldiers being evicted from where they are living and given 3 days notice.  I'm not a smart dude but even I could for see the bad optics of that without putting  out some kind of PR statement.   
The Cf is crazy about social media and how many hits stuff get in twitter and Facebook,  it's like they are shooting  themselves in the foot with this.  People  (civilians)  are pretty pissed off.  We could have mitigated this with more information.

When the refugees come I hope they tell everyone the horror stories of what they seen and have been through,  maybe the government will be more inclined to increase our presence there.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Journeyman on November 24, 2015, 00:16:16
I'm not a smart dude but even I could for see the bad optics of that .....
Careful, you could end up getting punted into the Public Affairs world.  ;D


Oh...and you know I think you're a pretty smart dude.   ;)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 24, 2015, 06:45:47
The "story," DND's side of the story, anyway (http://www.thewhig.com/2015/11/23/cfb-kingston-prepares-accommodations-for-expected-influx-of-syrian-refugees), is starting to come our ... piecemeal.

I think everyone should have anticipated the media's reaction (and the ill-informed/uninformed service members' reactions, too) to the rumours that people were going to be evicted. I think the government PR machine missed a beat here ... perhaps because it is so very, very new. Perhaps they thought that the overwhelming majority of Canadians would just assume that the CF could do this (whatever "this" is) without any fuss or bother, but the mainstream media found a "story;" it was there, for the looking, on social media I'm told (I, apparently, don't subscribe to the right "sources," or so an acquaintance who works in the media tells me.) It appears that DND is now "scrambling" to set the record straight when I think the government, the political centre, would have wished for an active* response to the minister's statement that refugees would be held on military bases; maybe that was wishful thinking on the government's part ...

The mainstream media is not anti-Liberal (yet) or anti-refugee (yet). Reporters, however, want their story to be "above the fold" or they want their 30 seconds of "on the air" time and so they look for cracks in any and all programmes and then they try to drive wedges into those cracks by quoting poorly sourced rumours (and, in fairness, they identify them as such) and then wait for more. It;'s a good tactic and, in this case, it worked.


____
* As opposed to reactive
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on November 24, 2015, 06:56:22
The "story," DND's side of the story, anyway (http://www.thewhig.com/2015/11/23/cfb-kingston-prepares-accommodations-for-expected-influx-of-syrian-refugees), is starting to come our ... piecemeal.

I think everyone should have anticipated the media's reaction (and the ill-informed/uninformed service members' reactions, too) to the rumours that people were going to be evicted. I think the government PR machine missed a beat here ... perhaps because it is so very, very new. Perhaps they thought that the overwhelming majority of Canadians would just assume that the CF could do this (whatever "this" is) without any fuss or bother, but the mainstream media found a "story;" it was there, for the looking, on social media I'm told (I, apparently, don't subscribe to the right "sources," or so an acquaintance who works in the media tells me.) It appears that DND is now "scrambling" to set the record straight when I think the government, the political centre, would have wished for an active* response to the minister's statement that refugees would be held on military bases; maybe that was wishful thinking on the government's part ...

The mainstream media is not anti-Liberal (yet) or anti-refugee (yet). Reporters, however, want their story to be "above the fold" or they want their 30 seconds of "on the air" time and so they look for cracks in any and all programmes and then they try to drive wedges into those cracks by quoting poorly sourced rumours (and, in fairness, they identify them as such) and then wait for more. It;'s a good tactic and, in this case, it worked.


____
* As opposed to reactive

It was the number one trending news story on my facebook yesterday. 

The optics of this are terrible.  Especially with a 600 bed Kingston Pen sitting empty on the Kingston waterfront. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 24, 2015, 07:06:19
It was the number one trending news story on my facebook yesterday. 

The optics of this are terrible.  Especially with a 600 bed Kingston Pen sitting empty on the Kingston waterfront.


The "optics" of putting refugees in an old, 19th century, penitentiary that was too bad for Canada's worst convicts would be far, far worse ...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on November 24, 2015, 07:08:41

The "optics" of putting refugees in an old, 19th century, penitentiary that was too bad for Canada's worst convicts would be far, far worse ...

Would it be though?  I've heard many people in Kingston suggesting it.  It would also fulfill the Whole of Government Approach  8)

Disclaimer - I agree we shouldn't put them in an old prison but I also think CFB Kingston hasn't done the best job, nobody has a smick what the heck is going on around here.  The base commander should have a town hall to clear the air.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Old Sweat on November 24, 2015, 07:27:04
Would it be though?  I've heard many people in Kingston suggesting it.  It would also fulfill the Whole of Government Approach  8)

Disclaimer - I agree we shouldn't put them in an old prison but I also think CFB Kingston hasn't done the best job, nobody has a smick what the heck is going on around here.  The base commander should have a town hall to clear the air.

I think it goes higher than the base commander. Speculating here, but there may well have been direction prohibiting public announcements or disclosure of details until the Minister of Immigration and Refugees provides details of the plan later today. Good, well okay not bad intentions, but lousy unexpected consequences.

In the meantime, the troops are not gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on November 24, 2015, 07:38:52
I think it goes higher than the base commander. Speculating here, but there may well have been direction prohibiting public announcements or disclosure of details until the Minister of Immigration and Refugees provides details of the plan later today. Good, well okay not bad intentions, but lousy unexpected consequences.

In the meantime, the troops are not gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

Nobody has been muzzled.  A plan was circulated around a week ago via email but none of that was ever communicated to the troops.  Another case of leadership by email. 

Also, you can clear the air without divulging too much information.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 24, 2015, 07:53:05


Also, you can clear the air without divulging too much information.

Agreed. Or set the tone.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Strike on November 24, 2015, 09:24:49
I think it goes higher than the base commander. Speculating here, but there may well have been direction prohibiting public announcements or disclosure of details until the Minister of Immigration and Refugees provides details of the plan later today. Good, well okay not bad intentions, but lousy unexpected consequences.

In the meantime, the troops are not gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

Here's the problem in a nutshell:
1.  The CAF is still under the writ period from the election.  One of the main reasons for this is the extended delay in the ministers sorting out their staff (hires and such) and being able to come out with a comms plan for both the GoC as a whole and then its smaller organizations (like CAF, Tpt Can, etc.).  Until that PAG is developed and released, the CAF has to get approvals at the highest levels for the simplest of media opportunities.

2.  The CAF is not the lead in this, so it isn't up to us to announce anything, and especially not first, to the media.

3.  The overall plan has yet to be released, which is also why it hasn't been shared completely with units on bases/within CAF that don't have a direct impact on the whole affair.  And because of the sensitivity of the whole thing, there are a very limited number of people who have seen any of the plans out there.

It's fine to suggest a town hall, but then soldiers go home and tell their spouses, who tell their families, who post it on FB and suddenly the 'might happen' becomes ' is happening.'  And it's hard to turn off that tap once it starts going.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 24, 2015, 09:33:52
Here's the problem in a nutshell:
1.  The CAF is still under the writ period from the election.  One of the main reasons for this is the extended delay in the ministers sorting out their staff (hires and such) and being able to come out with a comms plan for both the GoC as a whole and then its smaller organizations (like CAF, Tpt Can, etc.).  Until that PAG is developed and released, the CAF has to get approvals at the highest levels for the simplest of media opportunities.

2.  The CAF is not the lead in this, so it isn't up to us to announce anything, and especially not first, to the media.

3.  The overall plan has yet to be released, which is also why it hasn't been shared completely with units on bases/within CAF that don't have a direct impact on the whole affair.  And because of the sensitivity of the whole thing, there are a very limited number of people who have seen any of the plans out there.

It's fine to suggest a town hall, but then soldiers go home and tell their spouses, who tell their families, who post it on FB and suddenly the 'might happen' becomes ' is happening.'  And it's hard to turn off that tap once it starts going.


Thanks, Strike, that makes perfect sense: no Public Affairs Guidance ... yet; DND is not the lead; and the "plan," such as it is is on close hold. It is a recipe for media (and general) speculation and it allows the media to make the CF leadership look less than stellar ... even if that is not the intent.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 24, 2015, 09:38:04
Here's the problem in a nutshell:
1.  The CAF is still under the writ period from the election.  One of the main reasons for this is the extended delay in the ministers sorting out their staff (hires and such) and being able to come out with a comms plan for both the GoC as a whole and then its smaller organizations (like CAF, Tpt Can, etc.).  Until that PAG is developed and released, the CAF has to get approvals at the highest levels for the simplest of media opportunities.

2.  The CAF is not the lead in this, so it isn't up to us to announce anything, and especially not first, to the media.

3.  The overall plan has yet to be released, which is also why it hasn't been shared completely with units on bases/within CAF that don't have a direct impact on the whole affair.  And because of the sensitivity of the whole thing, there are a very limited number of people who have seen any of the plans out there.

It's fine to suggest a town hall, but then soldiers go home and tell their spouses, who tell their families, who post it on FB and suddenly the 'might happen' becomes ' is happening.'  And it's hard to turn off that tap once it starts going.

All good points.  I've been privy (like many here) to bits and pieces but have no idea about the larger plan or even how those bits and pieces fit in it.  I can surmise but that can lead to false info and what not.

I think that Bogarts suggestion of a town hall is more along the lines of letting the troops know that stuff might happen and that there may or may not be some disruption and that they are being counted on to be flexible and professional.  Eevn just stating that they haven't received any orders or instructions but to be prepared should that happen.   It may not seem like much but even something that vague can put them in right mind set should something happen.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 24, 2015, 09:40:02

Thanks, Strike, that makes perfect sense: no Public Affairs Guidance ... yet; DND is not the lead; and the "plan," such as it is is on close hold. It is a recipe for media (and general) speculation and it allows the media to make the CF leadership look less than stellar ... even if that is not the intent.

And already social media and those against bringing in refugee are talking about this making soldiers and veterans homeless... ::)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on November 24, 2015, 09:48:19
All good points.  I've been privy (like many here) to bits and pieces but have no idea about the larger plan or even how those bits and pieces fit in it.  I can surmise but that can lead to false info and what not.

I think that Bogarts suggestion of a town hall is more along the lines of letting the troops know that stuff might happen and that there may or may not be some disruption and that they are being counted on to be flexible and professional.  Eevn just stating that they haven't received any orders or instructions but to be prepared should that happen.   It may not seem like much but even something that vague can put them in right mind set should something happen.

 :goodpost:

It's called a warning order and it's a proven way of doing business.

Lets leave the smoke and mirrors to the politicians.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 24, 2015, 10:06:43


It's fine to suggest a town hall, but then soldiers go home and tell their spouses, who tell their families, who post it on FB and suddenly the 'might happen' becomes ' is happening.'  And it's hard to turn off that tap once it starts going.

But that's exactly what happened.

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 24, 2015, 10:09:06
But that's exactly what happened.
But now, because the official word isn't out yet, only tidbits, rumour, hearsay and RUMINT is getting back to the families and comment boards ;D

All joking aside, thanks, Strike, for showing an important part of the REST of the story explaining the dribbling flow of information outwards in some quarters.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on November 24, 2015, 10:18:43
But now, because the official word isn't out yet, only tidbits, rumour, hearsay and RUMINT is getting back to the families and comment boards ;D

All joking aside, thanks, Strike, for showing an important part of the REST of the story explaining the dribbling flow of information outwards in some quarters.

The media blackout deals with external communication from the department.  Internal communication is totally fine. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Strike on November 24, 2015, 10:23:59
The media blackout deals with external communication from the department.  Internal communication is totally fine.

Except that there are several departments involved and, even with a new government, there is probably still that hesitancy to share between agencies before the full go-ahead is given.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Loachman on November 24, 2015, 13:00:32
gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

I first heard it, from my first father-in-law, in 1978.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Good2Go on November 24, 2015, 13:48:16
I've been overseas for the past few weeks & I live in single quarters at CFB Kingston.  I don't return until Friday.

Can anyone tell me if Bldg C-46 is affected?  I hate surprises...  Many thanks!
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Blackadder1916 on November 24, 2015, 13:52:59

, the troops are not gruntled (opposite of disgruntled and probably not a real word.)

It's in the COD (a colloquial backform of disgruntled), so you're safe from the pedants.  It's an adjective - so while you may say "you are gruntled", it is improper to say "my girlfriend gruntled me last night".
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chief Engineer on November 24, 2015, 15:33:13
I've been overseas for the past few weeks & I live in single quarters at CFB Kingston.  I don't return until Friday.

Can anyone tell me if Bldg C-46 is affected?  I hate surprises...  Many thanks!

The memo that is circulating online does not mention C-46.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Good2Go on November 24, 2015, 15:52:52
The memo that is circulating online does not mention C-46.

Thank you so much.  I am having an awful trip & hearing that I might return to a move pde was making a bad situation worse.

Any chance you could send me the link for the memo?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 24, 2015, 17:43:40
It's official - they're still coming, but not as many as first planned by year end (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/canada-to-resettle-10000-syrian-refugees-by-year-end-not-25000) ....
Quote
The government will resettle only about 10,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year, or less than half the 25,000 promised by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau during the election campaign.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship officials revealed the shortfall on Tuesday, as they presented the government’s plan for bringing the Syrian refugees to Canada. The entire 25,000 won’t arrive in Canada until the end of February, the officials said. The effort will cost as much as $678 million over six years ....
This from the Info-machine (http://bit.ly/1Xd8rbr):
Quote
The Government of Canada is taking immediate action to welcome 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada as quickly as possible, through a five-phase national plan. Canada can and will do more to help Syrian refugees who are desperately seeking safety, by offering them a new home.

The five phases are identifying Syrian refugees to come to Canada, selecting and processing Syrian refugees overseas, transportation to Canada, arrival and welcoming in Canada, and settlement and community integration. Protecting the safety, security, and health of Canadians and refugees is a key factor in guiding the Government of Canada’s actions throughout this initiative.

The government will identify all 25,000 refugees to come to Canada by December 31, 2015. Of those selected, the target is to have 10,000 Syrian refugees arrive in Canada by the end of this year, and the remainder to arrive by the end of February 2016.

We will ensure we are prepared to welcome these refugees properly in our communities, by continuing to work with provincial, territorial, municipal, and other partners. This timeframe will also allow for the completion of the immigration process overseas.

It is important that Canada respond and demonstrate clear action. To meet this commitment, the government will work with the governments of Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey, along with international and Canadian partners.

Canada will be working closely with the United Nations Refugee Agency (UNHCR) to identify registered Syrian refugees who can be resettled. Canada’s focus will be on identifying vulnerable refugees who are a lower security risk. Robust health and security screening will be completed overseas. This will include the collection of biographic information and biometric screening of all refugees, verified against databases.

The government also has several thousand applications in processing for privately sponsored refugees (PSRs) under way, and these will be included as part of the commitment. The majority of these will be finalized in the coming weeks. These refugees will be admitted into Canada, in either Montreal or Toronto, and then continue directly on to their destination community.

Resettling 25,000 refugees to Canada is a national effort that will require significant coordination and support. The Government of Canada is working with other orders of government, non-governmental organizations, partners and Canadians across the country to help ensure successful integration of Syrian refugees into their new host communities, where they will begin to build their new lives in Canada.

The government’s commitment to bringing in Syrian refugees will continue in 2016. Given the current initiative includes privately sponsored refugees, this will include taking in more government-assisted refugees (GARs) to reach a total target of 25,000 GARs.

Since the beginning of the conflict in Syria, Canada has contributed more than $800 million to support stabilization efforts, provide development assistance, contribute to humanitarian efforts, and enhance security ....
More in the Backgrounder here (http://bit.ly/1Ly5BBv) - infographic of five phases attached - all material also attached as PDF in case links above don't work.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 24, 2015, 18:37:49
Glad to see they stretched the timeline.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Loachman on November 24, 2015, 19:58:26
Yes, finally, because the logistical nightmare would have surpassed the security concerns.

I have recently been involved in the private sponsorship of a refugee family, from a much different area, and it takes a lot of effort from a bunch of people to do it right. Anything less risks setting the family up for failure.

It should not have taken this long for the government to listen to what everybody who had real experience in such things was telling it, or to reassure a good chunk of our population who had legitimate concerns that the security aspect was being taken seriously.

This did not have to get so many people worked up.

I am also concerned that Syrians have merely become fashionable for Liberals. There are many others elsewhere at least equally suffering and/or at real risk who seem to be invisible to them.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brad Sallows on November 24, 2015, 22:34:53
>Of those selected, the target is to have 10,000 Syrian refugees arrive in Canada by the end of this year, and the remainder to arrive by the end of February 2016.

Good.  The government will undoubtedly take a brief hit from the critics who take Trudeau to task for uttering so much as "good morning", but it will be much better than a never-ending series of interviews with refugees about the quality of their experience since being rushed into Canada to fit a campaign promise deadline.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chris Pook on November 25, 2015, 05:20:00
Yes, finally, because the logistical nightmare would have surpassed the security concerns.

I have recently been involved in the private sponsorship of a refugee family, from a much different area, and it takes a lot of effort from a bunch of people to do it right. Anything less risks setting the family up for failure.

It should not have taken this long for the government to listen to what everybody who had real experience in such things was telling it, or to reassure a good chunk of our population who had legitimate concerns that the security aspect was being taken seriously.

This did not have to get so many people worked up.

I am also concerned that Syrians have merely become fashionable for Liberals. There are many others elsewhere at least equally suffering and/or at real risk who seem to be invisible to them.

Of course they did.  They had an election to win and a Natural Order to restore.   >:D
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Technoviking on November 25, 2015, 06:46:57
I  am also concerned that Syrians have merely become fashionable for Liberals. There are many others elsewhere at least equally suffering and/or at real risk who seem to be invisible to them.
Amen. If you count IDPs the same as refugees, then you must also remember those in Afghanistan (anyone remember them anymore?), Colombia, Sudan, etc. The list goes on and on....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 25, 2015, 07:02:46
Amen. If you count IDPs the same as refugees, then you must also remember those in Afghanistan (anyone remember them anymore?)....
Like these folks (as of April 2014 (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/04/28/for_canadas_afghan_interpreters_the_battle_never_ends.html))?
Quote
.... Canada’s immigration department says about 800 interpreters, support workers and some eligible family members will “eventually” wind up in Canada under the special visa program. But a spokesperson for Citizenship and Immigration Canada could not say how many of those applicants have already arrived. Nor would CIC say how many former interpreters applied and were rejected, left behind as the final Canadian troops left Afghanistan (March 2014) ....
.... Colombia, Sudan, etc. The list goes on and on....
Look out for more if/when Canada gets involved elsewhere in Africa under PMJT & Co. ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Finnthegreat on November 25, 2015, 07:42:23
Thank you so much.  I am having an awful trip & hearing that I might return to a move pde was making a bad situation worse.

Any chance you could send me the link for the memo?

I'd also like to see this memo if possible - the only one I've seen online turned out to be a fake and that certainly doesn't help the machine of misinformation that's going around.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 25, 2015, 07:50:06
I'd also like to see this memo if possible - the only one I've seen online turned out to be a fake and that certainly doesn't help the machine of misinformation that's going around.  :facepalm:


I cannot help you directly, but the media is reporting (http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/11/24/soldiers-given-heave-ho-to-make-room-for-incoming-refugees) that "Residents of six different buildings at CFB Kingston were told in a letter on Friday they would need to move their personal effects on Monday to make way for incoming refugees."

Assuming that report is accurate ~ and we have a whole thread devoted to media errors, etc, which suggests it might not be ~ then the "letter" is out in public and someone should be able to post it here or send you a copy by IM.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Finnthegreat on November 25, 2015, 08:07:19
Thanks - I've seen that Sun article, different outlets have similar versions. I know CTV had one earlier this week that was then slammed for being misleading. That's the whole part of the problem, as was stated earlier in this thread. One day someone says something, who tells someone else ect and suddenly it becomes a fact and being reported on as such. It wouldn't take much for that to NOT happen... but you know, why put in the effort?



I cannot help you directly, but the media is reporting (http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/11/24/soldiers-given-heave-ho-to-make-room-for-incoming-refugees) that "Residents of six different buildings at CFB Kingston were told in a letter on Friday they would need to move their personal effects on Monday to make way for incoming refugees."

Assuming that report is accurate ~ and we have a whole thread devoted to media errors, etc, which suggests it might not be ~ then the "letter" is out in public and someone should be able to post it here or send you a copy by IM.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 25, 2015, 08:48:41
Theo Moudakis, drawing in the Toronto Star, says:

     (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUqCvmyWUAAD_sy.jpg:large)
     Source: https://twitter.com/TheoMoudakis?lang=en
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 25, 2015, 09:00:07
Michael Den Tandt, writing in the Ottawa Citizen, says that (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/michael+tandt+breaking+refugee+promise+winner+liberals/11541468/story.html) breaking the refugee promise (25,000 by 31 Dec 15) is a political 'winner' for the Liberals.

    "They have not, it seems, entirely lost the smarts that won them 184 seats and a whopping majority just over a month ago.

     In announcing the details of its long-anticipated, feverishly-speculated upon and much-criticized plan to rescue 25,000 refugees from the Syrian war by year’s end, the Liberal government deftly lopped off the last part of the promise,
     something they could have done three weeks ago.

     Their plan is now to bring in 10,000 refugees to Canada by year’s end, with an additional 15,000 to come in the ensuing couple of months — more or less in line with what many stakeholders and critics — including refugee advocates,
     some mayors, provincial premiers and the Conservative party — have demanded for weeks.

     “Canadians said, if it takes a little bit longer to do it right, then that’s what you should do,” said John McCallum, Minister of Immigration and point man on the refugee effort, in explaining the change."
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: dapaterson on November 25, 2015, 09:02:50
If we bring in 10K between now and the end of the year, that's about 300 people per day, which is a single Boeing 767 (with room to spare) or a pair of Boeing 737s.  Pearson generally handles about 100,000 passengers a day.  So if all refugees are channelled through Pearson, it's a 0.3% increase - hardly unmanageable.  Fly the 737s to two different airports and the increase is even less. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 25, 2015, 10:23:56
Theo Moudakis, drawing in the Toronto Star, says:

     (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUqCvmyWUAAD_sy.jpg:large)
     Source: https://twitter.com/TheoMoudakis?lang=en

Do Syrian female refugees have special cultural rules like not being looked at by a male or not searched by a male or something?

Also I haven't read anywhere about our kitchen facilities providing special meals?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Journeyman on November 25, 2015, 18:24:19
Thank you so much.  I am having an awful trip & hearing that I might return to a move pde was making a bad situation worse.

Any chance you could send me the link for the memo?
Have you considered contacting your chain of command?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: ballz on November 25, 2015, 19:36:25
If we bring in 10K between now and the end of the year, that's about 300 people per day, which is a single Boeing 767 (with room to spare) or a pair of Boeing 737s.  Pearson generally handles about 100,000 passengers a day.  So if all refugees are channelled through Pearson, it's a 0.3% increase - hardly unmanageable.  Fly the 737s to two different airports and the increase is even less.

I don't think getting them through screening and through airport security is going to be the biggest hurdle. There is a lot more to it than putting them through a metal detector. The biggest issue is going to be the logistics after they make it through the screening and are living on Canadian soil.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on November 25, 2015, 19:52:54
As someone else mentioned,  these refugees of the moment are all fine and good.  WFT about our Terps, they contributed to this country already, and we owe them a debt that should be upheld.   That is shameful we're not.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Nuggs on November 25, 2015, 20:19:14
I don't think getting them through screening and through airport security is going to be the biggest hurdle. There is a lot more to it than putting them through a metal detector. The biggest issue is going to be the logistics after they make it through the screening and are living on Canadian soil.
The whole plane could be pre-screened by CBSA prior to departure at origin.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Rocky Mountains on November 26, 2015, 13:01:18
Canada already accepts 200,000 immigrants per year which is 16,667 per month.  An additional 10,000 in one month shouldn't be particularly difficult.  Rent them apartments, open them a bank account, buy them some groceries and introduce them to locals whose Arabic dialect they can understand - end of story.  The only further involvement needed would be giving them a welfare cheque by direct deposit each month for a certain time.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Strike on November 26, 2015, 13:45:47
Canada already accepts 200,000 immigrants per year which is 16,667 per month.  An additional 10,000 in one month shouldn't be particularly difficult.  Rent them apartments, open them a bank account, buy them some groceries and introduce them to locals whose Arabic dialect they can understand - end of story.  The only further involvement needed would be giving them a welfare cheque by direct deposit each month for a certain time.

I'm going to have to ask where you got those numbers from.  Link please?

And remember - temporary visas for students and tourists are completely different than accepting immigrants to stay permanently in Canada.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 26, 2015, 14:10:34
I'm going to have to ask where you got those numbers from.  Link please?

And remember - temporary visas for students and tourists are completely different than accepting immigrants to stay permanently in Canada.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2014/index.asp

That is permanent residents only.  So about 250 000 or so for 2014.  They classify temporary residents under other stats specific to that.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Strike on November 26, 2015, 15:08:33
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2014/index.asp

That is permanent residents only.  So about 250 000 or so for 2014.  They classify temporary residents under other stats specific to that.

I'm pretty sure that's not how many they accept per year.  That's how many are considered permanent residents at any point in time.  My sister-in-law is part of that number and has been since she immigrated to Canada with her family when she was 2 and that was 45 yrs ago.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: dapaterson on November 26, 2015, 15:17:31
I'm pretty sure that's not how many they accept per year.  That's how many are considered permanent residents at any point in time.  My sister-in-law is part of that number and has been since she immigrated to Canada with her family when she was 2 and that was 45 yrs ago.

According to the CICReport on Plans and Priorities for 2015/16,
Quote
In 2015, we plan to welcome between 260,000 and 285,000 new permanent residents to Canada.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/rpp/2015-2016/index.asp
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 26, 2015, 15:30:56
I'm pretty sure that's not how many they accept per year.  That's how many are considered permanent residents at any point in time.  My sister-in-law is part of that number and has been since she immigrated to Canada with her family when she was 2 and that was 45 yrs ago.

No.  That's the annual intake.  Read the link. 

Or go to wikipedia if you want it in laymen's terms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada#Immigration_rate

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Strike on November 26, 2015, 15:46:33
According to the CICReport on Plans and Priorities for 2015/16,http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/rpp/2015-2016/index.asp

My bad then.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 26, 2015, 16:12:19
My bad then.

Looking at the numbers at first glance I thought the same thing you did.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on November 26, 2015, 18:22:06
A new permanent resident can be an American with a Canadian spouse receiving that status. Let's compare apples to apples here:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/canada.asp (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/canada.asp)

Canada takes 10,000 of the 100,000 resettled refugees every year. The Liberals are taking 2.5 that number in 3 months. Little bit different when you resettle a refugee than when you allow someone from a G8 nation permanent resident status when they immigrate here.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: YZT580 on November 26, 2015, 22:30:59
Just by counting the number of mosques and temples that have opened in Mississauga and Brampton I would suggest that a significant portion of those 260,000 have been from places other than Europe and the U.S.  Harper clamped down on immigration fraud but he never touched the numbers: it was mainly bad optics.  The figure of 260,000 was the number that the government and the private sector believed could be absorbed annually.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 26, 2015, 22:54:15
Just by counting the number of mosques and temples that have opened in Mississauga and Brampton I would suggest that a significant portion of those 260,000 have been from places other than Europe and the U.S.  Harper clamped down on immigration fraud but he never touched the numbers: it was mainly bad optics.  The figure of 260,000 was the number that the government and the private sector believed could be absorbed annually.


Well you can see the yearly breakdown up to 2013 here. 

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2013/permanent/10.asp

The trend is likely the same for 2014.

China being number 1.  Followed by India and the the Philippines.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 27, 2015, 07:12:41
..... China being number 1.  Followed by India and the the Philippines.
That bit intrigued me ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 27, 2015, 07:41:45
It shouldn't.

China, India and Philippines all share one common attribute: they have, relative to opportunities, a surplus of well educated, sophisticated people for whom good, productive, satisfying jobs are in short supply at home. They actually and actively encourage emigration and they make life easy for the would be emigrant.

With regard to opportunity. I just learned that a young lady who used to work for me, in my civvy 'second career,' returned to China after finishing both her BComm and MBA here in Ottawa. She thought that her skills, knowledge and contacts would stand here in good stead in China ... and so they did, jobs were not hard to find, at all, but the sorts of good, productive jobs with bright future prospects that she wanted were scarce. She returned to Canada, almost certainly to stay, to take up an entry level management position, with good prospects for her future, with a big Canadian bank.

Every theoretical physicist, accountant or engineer that we take from China or India is just one from a battalion of qualified people who are "surplus to requirements opportunity," we act, in a way as a social safety valve for the Chinese and indian governments. But when we take a physicist or accountant from, say Bolivia or Ghana we are taking one from a section, at best, not from a whole battalion. Our immigration policies often rob poor countries of their "best and brightest."
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 27, 2015, 09:01:11
The high-education/skilled folks, I understand - I think I was more surprised to see China (only just) in the top ten countries sending refugees here in 2014 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-refugees-by-the-numbers-the-data-1.3240640#admitted2014), not to mention all those who've come here since 2004 ....
(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.cbc.ca%2F1.3253419.1443742454%21%2FfileImage%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.png_gen%2Fderivatives%2Foriginal_620%2Frefugees-landed-in-canada-plus-dependants-2004-2013.png&hash=c2d69b41abdca97fac887f6f07456113)
.... and holding the top slot in 2014 (see CIC spreadsheet attached).
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Rocky Mountains on November 27, 2015, 19:12:25
The US had 4,451 refugees to Canada in 10 years.  Amazing that a country that is, in my opinion, a lot freer and fairer than Canada would generate any legitimate refugees.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 27, 2015, 20:24:40
The US had 4,451 refugees to Canada in 10 years.  Amazing that a country that is, in my opinion, a lot freer and fairer than Canada would generate any legitimate refugees.
It would be interesting to see how many of those have been deserters from the various ME/SWA wars.  The Info-machine definition (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/canada.asp) is "Refugees are people who have fled their countries because of a well-founded fear of persecution, and who are therefore unable to return home".

In the case of deseters, one man's "persecution" is another's "enforcing the terms of enlistment" - discuss  ;D
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Brad Sallows on November 28, 2015, 00:38:16
>I don't think getting them through screening and through airport security is going to be the biggest hurdle. There is a lot more to it than putting them through a metal detector. The biggest issue is going to be the logistics after they make it through the screening and are living on Canadian soil.

Yes.  Transporting people is not the issue.  Settling them once they arrive is.

That is why - relaxed deadline aside - I still render an overall thumbs-down on the project.  The whole commitment was about bidding for votes and has become an exercise in maintaining the new government's image and sustaining the social posturing of well-meaning people with short attention spans - selfishness on all parts.  Long after the government delivers the last of the 25,000 refugees into someone else's hands and spends its last committed dollar, other people will be dealing with the problem.  To the extent that organizations (and their funds) are occupied with cleaning up the mess created by the Liberals and the people whose interest in refugees was born during the election and will disappear again once the government declares "mission accomplished", more deserving and needy refugees will necessarily have been shunted aside and will have to wait longer.  That is shameful, not praiseworthy.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: my72jeep on November 28, 2015, 13:16:48
So I was listening to CBC Friday morning( some parts of N Ont it's all you get) and some minor Liberal functionary was going on about how we sent 500 personal over to screen the new Canadians. One thing he said struck a nerve, upon arrival they get resident status automatically. Doesn't that mean we can't get rid of them if later it's found out that whoops we missed his or her terrorist status?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Ostrozac on November 28, 2015, 13:44:30
So I was listening to CBC Friday morning( some parts of N Ont it's all you get) and some minor Liberal functionary was going on about how we sent 500 personal over to screen the new Canadians. One thing he said struck a nerve, upon arrival they get resident status automatically. Doesn't that mean we can't get rid of them if later it's found out that whoops we missed his or her terrorist status?

Nope, you can strip resident status from an individual, and it's a much easier process than the newly introduced (and not yet fully Supreme Court approved) method to remove Canadian citizenship.

In practice, it probably doesn't matter. We are not going to be deporting anyone to Syria so long as the war continues. Note the problems we've had deporting people to Iraq and Afghanistan over the past few years.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on November 28, 2015, 15:27:20
From the "it's never left enough for the hard left" files (http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/11/28/cana-n28.html) ....
Quote
The Liberal government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has capitulated to the reactionary anti-refugee campaign whipped up by the political right in the wake of the November 13 terrorist attacks in Paris. In the name of “security,” it is imposing reactionary restrictions on its refugee resettlement program, effectively excluding most “unaccompanied” males, and delaying implementation of its pledge to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by year’s end ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: MCG on November 28, 2015, 16:59:59
The US had 4,451 refugees to Canada in 10 years.  Amazing that a country that is, in my opinion, a lot freer and fairer than Canada would generate any legitimate refugees.
If you are crazy, the whole US might be out to get you.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/randy-quaid-seeks-refugee-status-in-canada-1.930839
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 28, 2015, 17:04:00
The US had 4,451 refugees to Canada in 10 years.  Amazing that a country that is, in my opinion, a lot freer and fairer than Canada would generate any legitimate refugees.

I live in the States. 

I guess it is "freer and fairer" for me - because I am a) white b) have a job that comes with platinum plated health care and c) am happily ensconced in the top 3% of earners. 

Everyone else?  Not so much.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 28, 2015, 18:35:39
How does our monetary assistance program work?
From what I read the refugees will get a one time start up bonus then a monthly pay check of around $500 or $600 depending on a few variables.

How long does that last for? Are they cut off after a year or 5 years or could they hypothetically receive assistance for 20+ years?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 28, 2015, 20:37:20
How does our monetary assistance program work?
From what I read the refugees will get a one time start up bonus then a monthly pay check of around $500 or $600 depending on a few variables.

How long does that last for? Are they cut off after a year or 5 years or could they hypothetically receive assistance for 20+ years?

Like Maritmer fishermen....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Blackadder1916 on November 28, 2015, 21:26:47
How does our monetary assistance program work?
From what I read the refugees will get a one time start up bonus then a monthly pay check of around $500 or $600 depending on a few variables.

How long does that last for? Are they cut off after a year or 5 years or could they hypothetically receive assistance for 20+ years?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/outside/resettle-assist.asp
Resettlement Assistance Program

Resettlement assistance is provided by the Government of Canada to Convention Refugees Abroad and, in some instances, to members of the Country of Asylum Class who have been identified as refugees with special needs and who have been admitted to Canada as government-assisted refugees. Refugees who claimed refugee protection from inside Canada are not eligible for this program. These funds are used to help pay for:
•meeting the refugee at the airport or port of entry;
•temporary accommodation;
•help in finding permanent accommodation;
•basic household items; and
•general orientation to life in Canada.

This money is also used to give the refugee income support for up to one year or until that person becomes self-sufficient, whichever comes first.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: winnipegoo7 on November 29, 2015, 12:53:57
The National Post is reporting that Montreal has hired an official co-ordinator to welcome the Syrian refugees to Montreal. He will be paid up to $110,000 for the three month period.   

Not a bad job.

Quote
Syrian refugee coordinator in Montreal to make $1,800 a day to welcome the newcomers to Canada

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/syrian-refugee-coordinator-in-montreal-to-make-1800-a-day-to-welcome-the-newcomers-to-canada
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on November 29, 2015, 15:56:07
The National Post is reporting that Montreal has hired an official co-ordinator to welcome the Syrian refugees to Montreal. He will be paid up to $110,000 for the three month period.   

Not a bad job.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/syrian-refugee-coordinator-in-montreal-to-make-1800-a-day-to-welcome-the-newcomers-to-canada

A good job to hand out some pork barrel funding.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 29, 2015, 16:55:01
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/01/23/conservative_government_hiring_consultants_to_sell_sick_leave_reform.html (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/01/23/conservative_government_hiring_consultants_to_sell_sick_leave_reform.html)

By: Alex Boutilier Staff Reporter, Published on Thu Jan 23 2014

OTTAWA—The federal government is hoping private sector consultants can help sell planned sick leave reforms to public servants.
Ottawa is looking for “disability benefit consultants” to assist the Conservatives’ push for public sector sick leave reforms — an issue that will be front and centre as a number of unions head to the negotiating table this year.

The consultants will be asked to do everything from advising Treasury Board on the design of the new sick leave system to developing “communications products” singing the praises of the new system to employees and union reps.

Treasury Board expects to pay as much as $525,000 over a four-year period for the consultants to help transition the public service to the new system, including interacting “with different stakeholders to explain the benefits of proposed short-term disability plan designs to meet the Government of Canada’s objectives.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing to see here.  Move along.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on November 29, 2015, 17:15:36
I have it, first hand, from one working Ottawa church-supported charity that it will cost $24K to $26K per year to house, feed, clothe and provide e.g. bus passes and job help to one refugee family (arbitrarily described two adults and two school-age children). That's market rate rents and groceries. When asked what sort of help her little organization needed she replied: "just a bit of money. We've been doing this, nearly full time, since the Vietnamese "boat people" circa 1980," she said, "and we know what to do and how to do it; we don't need any consultants, just access to the people who need our help and some financial support from the community." Quite frankly I trust this lady and her two (equally grey haired) colleagues more than I trust ALL the politicians and bureaucrats and (especially) consultants, combined. My wife and I agreed that every penny we will offer to help the refugees ~ who really do need our help ~ will be funnelled through my wife's church group to this little, local organization; nothing goes to anything associated with government or "big welfare."
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: SeaKingTacco on November 29, 2015, 17:33:02
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/01/23/conservative_government_hiring_consultants_to_sell_sick_leave_reform.html (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/01/23/conservative_government_hiring_consultants_to_sell_sick_leave_reform.html)

By: Alex Boutilier Staff Reporter, Published on Thu Jan 23 2014

OTTAWA—The federal government is hoping private sector consultants can help sell planned sick leave reforms to public servants.
Ottawa is looking for “disability benefit consultants” to assist the Conservatives’ push for public sector sick leave reforms — an issue that will be front and centre as a number of unions head to the negotiating table this year.

The consultants will be asked to do everything from advising Treasury Board on the design of the new sick leave system to developing “communications products” singing the praises of the new system to employees and union reps.

Treasury Board expects to pay as much as $525,000 over a four-year period for the consultants to help transition the public service to the new system, including interacting “with different stakeholders to explain the benefits of proposed short-term disability plan designs to meet the Government of Canada’s objectives.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing to see here.  Move along.

I am unclear what point you are attempting to make. Can you offer some clarification?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PPCLI Guy on November 29, 2015, 17:36:37
I am unclear what point you are attempting to make. Can you offer some clarification?

In response to this:

Quote
A good job to hand out some pork barrel funding.

I am suggesting that consultants are often hired by governments of all stripes to assist with the roll out of new programs etc - and that there is nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: SeaKingTacco on November 29, 2015, 23:50:37
Gotcha. I was particularly dense today and was not tracking.

(An alternate theory is that it is wrong no matter which government does it....)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: ballz on November 30, 2015, 00:24:30
Canada already accepts 200,000 immigrants per year which is 16,667 per month.  An additional 10,000 in one month shouldn't be particularly difficult.  Rent them apartments, open them a bank account, buy them some groceries and introduce them to locals whose Arabic dialect they can understand - end of story.  The only further involvement needed would be giving them a welfare cheque by direct deposit each month for a certain time.

Immigrants is a very broad category, most of them are not "refugees."

According to this, Canada only accepts 10-14k refugees a year, so yes, an additional 10,000 in one month is a lot.

http://www.ancnl.ca/?Content=FAQ


I am not against taking in 25,000 refugees, but everyone on both sides of the fence so far needs to try and keep it real.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: GRU on November 30, 2015, 08:00:05
The United States of America accept immigrants and refugees by the hundreds of thousands every year. They can accommodate all of these because of an effective taxation system. Their taxes are low that cause foreign investments and domestic investments exceed the employment rate. So no matter how large the number of refugees is, these refugees would in turn become enterpreneurs just like the ones who coddled them. Look at America, the no.1 superpower. They can afford adjustable water heaters unlike socialist countries. They have too much money for infrastructure that road signs become too redundant.

Because foreigners are allowed to buy houses in USA, the real estate industry is such a thriving one. If only we can reduce real estate taxes to foreigners, then there would be a boom in real estate. No, the members of Parliament practice that false nationalism that cause negative repercussions in the economy like the 60-40 share of Hydro. It's stupid! Why would I invest in a business where I would only get 40%?

If I were a closet communist economic saboteur I would aim first at the taxation system to sabotage the economy. We have plenty of these among Members of Parliament. Try thinking out of the box. Whom would you blame for Canada's 1 trillion dollar debt?

As a card-carrying member of the Communist Party of Canada and the Maoist Revolutionary Party, I am 'proud to say' that I've been 'there'. Applicants of CPC and the Maoist Party are advised to lie low, falsely profess their adherence to capitalism and apply as members of the Liberal Party and NDP. From there, their handlers would take over and dictate to them to table economy sabotaging and spending laws that would seal the fate of Canada. When we reach the status of Greece, everybody would finally realize the damage done and we cannot do anything anymore but apply for bailout from China. That would be the time when the Communist Party of Canada can justify itself. If no mole in CSIS succeeds to blow my lid off, I can outlast members to be the Vice Chairman, and influence policies from there. If not, then consider me dead. ha ha ha ha ha
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Nuggs on November 30, 2015, 08:58:25
Alright, who's been feeding the trolls?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on November 30, 2015, 10:06:20
ha ha ha ha ha

HA HA HA HA

 :eek:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on November 30, 2015, 10:49:59
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/outside/resettle-assist.asp
Resettlement Assistance Program

Resettlement assistance is provided by the Government of Canada to Convention Refugees Abroad and, in some instances, to members of the Country of Asylum Class who have been identified as refugees with special needs and who have been admitted to Canada as government-assisted refugees. Refugees who claimed refugee protection from inside Canada are not eligible for this program. These funds are used to help pay for:
•meeting the refugee at the airport or port of entry;
•temporary accommodation;
•help in finding permanent accommodation;
•basic household items; and
•general orientation to life in Canada.

This money is also used to give the refugee income support for up to one year or until that person becomes self-sufficient, whichever comes first.

Thanks a lot. 
And after that resettlement assistance they can apply for regular assistance.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Sheep Dog AT on November 30, 2015, 14:39:06
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1909861-swedish-village-torn-apart-from-fighting-between-migrants-and-locals/

Hopefully we fair better.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 03, 2015, 07:48:53
Meanwhile, while receiving end is working full tilt to bring folks over, it appears not everyone who's left Syria is in a huge hurry to move to Canada at this point (http://www.torontosun.com/2015/12/02/few-refugees-prepared-to-come-to-canada-by-end-of-year-officials) - highlights mine:
Quote
Only a fraction of the tens of thousands of Syrian refugees whom the United Nations tried to contact over the past month said they were interested in coming to Canada by the end of the year, federal immigration officials revealed Wednesday.

While the low response rate raises questions about why Syrian refugees don't want to travel here, officials said they remain confident about the Liberal government's plan to resettle 25,000 Syrians by the end of February.

The officials' comments came during an off-the-record briefing, the first of what the government says will be a weekly occurrence designed to ensure Canadians are kept up-to-date on the progress and challenges of its Syrian refugee plan.

Officials, who cannot be identified by name, said there had been early progress. Since the Liberal government was officially sworn in and the clock started ticking on its refugee promise on Nov. 3, officials said, 271 Syrians had arrived in Canada. Of those, 208 were privately sponsored, and the remainder had some sort of government involvement.

A further 1,015 Syrian refugees had been approved to come to Canada but hadn't yet arrived, while more than 9,000 applications were being processed. Officials acknowledged that the majority of those applications had been submitted weeks and months earlier.

Canada could take 50,000 refugees by end of 2016

But it was the next bit of information that stood out as a challenge. Officials said the UN had sent more than 41,000 text messages to potential applicants to see if they were interested in coming to Canada. These refugees would have been identified as being among the most vulnerable.

It turned out that only about 28,000 of those phone numbers actually worked. Even then, only 3,049 agreed to meet with UN officials for an interview. And of those, only 1,801 - or less than five per cent of those the UN initially tried to contact - said they were interested in coming to Canada by the end of the year
....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: c_canuk on December 03, 2015, 10:59:14
alternating between wanting to laugh and cry.

my god what a gong show.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on December 03, 2015, 11:30:46
I can't say that this is much of a surprise to me.

There are a few factors at work here, IMO.

First, the Media has conflated the issue of the European "refugee crisis" by making it look bigger than it was. How many people here have noticed that you regularly saw pictures of alleged "huge" columns of refugees on the march, but when you paid attention to the top of the pictures, you could see that the tight column just ended a few hundred feet further. these pictures did not denote "thousands and thousands" of refugees on the march everywhere, but a few hundred in one specific location - likely a group traveling together. Similarly, I am sure the media showing the "assault" on European borders probably was filmed at the specific locations where such "assault" was carried out and therefore, by its very nature the pictures exaggerated the overall reality.

Secondly, no distinction was made during the crisis between economic migrants and real refugees. Yes some refugees were in the masses (at some specific points, likely the majority were refugees), but if the number of real refugees was actually determined and then compared to the number of  Syrians displaced by the civil war and taking refuge out of country, I suspect that the proportion of refugees that  want to get into Europe, or the West generally, is not that high. In fact, I suspect that, like refugees every where else, the first and foremost hope of the large majority of refugee is being able to go back home, and the sooner the better.

 This leads to my third and last point: There is a false belief in the USA but also in Canada, though not to the same extent, that we live in the best country in the world and that the whole world is beating a path to get in here and live like we do. In my experience, nothing can be further from the truth. There will always be people that wish to immigrate to North America and start a new life, but by and large, the citizens of other countries, when they even know anything about Canada or the US*, are quite happy with their societies and to spend their life in their own countries, without any inkling of moving somewhere else.

*: Anybody see that family being processed for Canada on the National yesterday? They decided to apply after checking Canada on the internet and discovering, in their words, that Canada has forests and lakes and nature like Syria and that this fact clenched it for them.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: GAP on December 03, 2015, 13:08:53
Well..............if you were a refugee leaving Canada......where would you like to go?

or would you just want to go home?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 03, 2015, 13:14:43
Well..............if you were a refugee leaving Canada......where would you like to go?

or would you just want to go home?
Depends on how bad Canada was, and how long it might take for it to get better. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Simian Turner on December 03, 2015, 13:40:48
Meanwhile Op Provision carries on with soldiers and Bases wasting time and money. Just WOW!  New government, big promises, great plans, poor estimate of the situation. Same shyte, different pile.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on December 03, 2015, 14:27:05
Quote
41,000 text messages to potential applicants to see if they were interested in coming to Canada.

No one has ID but everyone has Iphones lol

So are we going to double the benefits we offer them in order to meet the magic 25'000 number?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Danjanou on December 03, 2015, 14:49:59
Thanks a lot. 
And after that resettlement assistance they can apply for regular assistance.

yup and be interesting to see how many do, however there will be no tracking of that.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: ballz on December 03, 2015, 21:51:56
Well..............if you were a refugee leaving Canada......where would you like to go?

or would you just want to go home?

Switzerland. I told my current partner that if things don't work, I am going to do just that... and judging by her reaction, I would be legitimately seeking refuge.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 04, 2015, 07:29:47
The Minister's response (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/idea-that-refugees-not-interested-in-canada-is-crazy-immigration-minister-says) to the low hit rate for offers to come to Canada?
Quote
The idea that there are many refugees who don’t want to come to Canada is “crazy,” said federal Immigration Minister John McCallum on Thursday, in response to reports that only a small percentage of Syrian refugees are interested in relocating to this country.

McCallum had just returned from visiting a refugee camp in Jordan, where he said there is “huge enthusiasm — a great hunger to come to Canada.”

He was responding to questions about comments his own immigration officials made on Wednesday, which were reported by several Canadian news organizations ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Dimsum on December 04, 2015, 08:26:24
The Minister's response (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/idea-that-refugees-not-interested-in-canada-is-crazy-immigration-minister-says) to the low hit rate for offers to come to Canada?

To be fair, would the translators for the Minister really say "oh, most of these folks you're here on this high-profile visit don't actually want to come to Canada"?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: captloadie on December 04, 2015, 10:01:08
Maybe its true that many don't want to permantly relocate to another country. Maybe we are taking people from the wrong areas. Let's assume that those that have made a rush for a European border are those who have finally made the leap to resettle somewhere other than the middle east. Is it possible the majority that remain in the Camps are groups who either haven't reached the breaking point yet, or who really want to return to their homeland of Syria and are just waiting it out?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 04, 2015, 10:05:47
To be fair, would the translators for the Minister really say "oh, most of these folks you're here on this high-profile visit don't actually want to come to Canada"?
A different question to consider:  would the Ministers be given a chance to speak to anyone other than those wanting to come to Canada?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on December 04, 2015, 10:23:50
The idea that there are many refugees who don’t want to come to Canada is “crazy,” said federal Immigration Minister John McCallum on Thursday, in response to reports that only a small percentage of Syrian refugees are interested in relocating to this country.

McCallum had just returned from visiting a refugee camp in Jordan, where he said there is “huge enthusiasm — a great hunger to come to Canada.”

He was responding to questions about comments his own immigration officials made on Wednesday, which were reported by several Canadian news organizations ....

I think I see what is actually crazy in this...a political mamby-pamby ignoring SME opinion. 

I am not sure which of these applies more;   :facepalm: or  ::) or  :brickwall:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on December 04, 2015, 11:17:38
So has anyone heard anything concrete about using the Cadet camp at Quadra for the refugees? Apparently the rumour is going through the cadet corp.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 04, 2015, 15:02:31
I think I see what is actually crazy in this...a political mamby-pamby ignoring SME opinion. 
Happens under all colours of government - sadly ....
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on December 04, 2015, 15:07:19
Happens under all colours of government - sadly ....

Yes but at least try to not be so...open...about it!   >:D

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: quadrapiper on December 04, 2015, 21:27:06
So has anyone heard anything concrete about using the Cadet camp at Quadra for the refugees? Apparently the rumour is going through the cadet corp.
If the disembarkation points were on the West Coast, it'd make sense (along with Work Point, Albert Head, and a smaller number of spaces at 19 Wing): that said, suspect rumour is all it is, as the refugees are IIRC entering through Montreal and Toronto.

If there was a need to quarter refugees on this coast, Quadra would likely be the least-bad option, though most of the quarters are spartan barracks bays.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on December 05, 2015, 01:23:51
thanks
Title: Canada ID's bases targetted for "Interim Lodging Sites"
Post by: milnews.ca on December 08, 2015, 10:45:45
This, (http://bit.ly/1NfIH4c) from the Info-machine this morning - highlights mine:
Quote
New receiving areas for Syrian refugees at ports-of-entry at Toronto Pearson International Airport, and Montréal–Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport are being temporarily put in place and will be operational until the end of February 2016. This will make processing at the airport as efficient and comfortable as possible for refugees who have made a long journey to their new home in Canada.

(....)

Government-assisted refugees will also begin to be transported on to their destination communities in the following days. If their destination community is not yet ready to receive them, their onward travel could be delayed up to a few weeks. Until communities are ready to receive them, they will be accommodated in Interim Lodging Sites (ILS).

Six initial ILSs have been identified at Canadian Forces Bases (CFBs) Kingston, Valcartier, Meaford, Petawawa, Trenton and Borden.  If activated, CFB Kingston and Valcartier will be the first to accept refugees as they have suitable accommodations, and are closest to large urban centres, and airports. The Red Cross, and the Departments of National Defence, the Public Health Agency of Canada, and Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada will work together in running the ILSs.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: MCG on December 11, 2015, 01:33:05
The first military flight of refugees has arrived in Toronto.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/syrian-refugees-arrive-on-government-aircraft-in-toronto-1.2694801

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/syria-refugees-arrive-1.3360154



Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 16, 2015, 13:41:53
More court action halted (http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1025029&tp=980) by the new federal government ...
Quote
"Today, the Government of Canada announced that it will not pursue its appeal in the case of The Attorney General of Canada and the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration v. Canadian Doctors for Refugee Care et al.The case involves changes made in 2012 to the Interim Federal Health Program (IFHP) for refugees, refugee claimants and claimants who were denied refugee status.

“In July 2014, the Federal Court of Canada ruled that those changes violated Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms and our government has promised to fully restore the IFHP. The temporary coverage announced after the Federal Court decision will stay in place until a new program is implemented.

“As a first step, when we announced our commitment to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of February 2016, we said that privately sponsored Syrian refugees would receive the same IFHP coverage as government-assisted refugees were getting.

“Withdrawing this appeal is an important step toward fulfilling our commitment to review the government’s litigation strategy to address positions that are inconsistent with our values.”
... but still no word on this one (http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=105851.200) yet.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on December 16, 2015, 14:12:13
The first military flight of refugees has arrived in Toronto.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/syrian-refugees-arrive-on-government-aircraft-in-toronto-1.2694801

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/syria-refugees-arrive-1.3360154

Premier Wynne was on hand to give them a bill from Ontario Hydro.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on December 16, 2015, 14:36:57
Premier Wynne was on hand to give then a bill from Ontario Hydro.

WHAT!

She wasn't there handing out popcorn?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Fishbone Jones on December 16, 2015, 14:47:59
Making sure there was no homophobes coming in.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: kratz on December 16, 2015, 16:20:46
The Premier could have been on hand, to give them each a free laptop  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/syrian-refugees-to-be-provided-with-computers-thanks-to-facebook-group-1.3366422)and offer each family free rent for a year (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/syrian-refugees-toronto-1.3366345).

Ok, the laptops are from a group in Edmonton AB, but Toronto is complaining about landlords trying to follow due diligence, even with refugees.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on December 16, 2015, 17:54:09
The Premier could have been on hand, to give them each a free laptop  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/syrian-refugees-to-be-provided-with-computers-thanks-to-facebook-group-1.3366422)and offer each family free rent for a year (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/syrian-refugees-toronto-1.3366345).

Ok, the laptops are from a group in Edmonton AB, but Toronto is complaining about landlords trying to follow due diligence, even with refugees.
I caught that ya. Imagine that, someone wanting to follow policy and the rules. Not exactly the landlords fault that no one thought of this ahead of time. They're paying a guy $1800 a day to organize this, he should be able to figure something out.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on December 16, 2015, 18:09:49
I caught that ya. Imagine that, someone wanting to follow policy and the rules. Not exactly the landlords fault that no one thought of this ahead of time. They're paying a guy $1800 a day to organize this, he should be able to figure something out.

For 1800/day, I bet he takes his time though. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Colin P on December 17, 2015, 12:26:49
Making sure there was no homophobes coming in.

Oddly enough that would likely disqualify about 2/3rds of the incoming refugees
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 21, 2015, 07:47:33
Mooooooore refugees for 2016 (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/12/20/canada-may-double-refugee-intake-by-end-of-2016-mccallum.html)?
Quote

The Canadian government could double the intake of Syrian refugees to 50,000, according to Canada’s minister of immigration, refugees and citizenship.

John McCallum said the Canadian government hopes to resettle 35,000 to 50,000 refugees by the end of 2016.

The announcement follows a pledge by the Liberal government to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of February.

McCallum, who also toured development projects and refugee facilities during his two-day stop in Jordan, greeted families preparing to board flights to Canada in the Jordanian capital of Amman on Sunday ...
Nice thought, but if they're having trouble rustling up folks to come to the Land of the Beaver & Mountie now ...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 21, 2015, 21:53:15
This tidbit, via Kurdish media (http://basnews.com/index.php/en/news/249442), about Canada also helping refugees closer to the fight - highlights mine ...
Quote
While visiting the Kurdistan Region of Iraq, Canadian Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan met with Kurdistan Region President Massoud Barzani in Erbil on Monday December 21st, to discuss the latest political and security developments.

According to a statement by Kurdistan Region Presidency office, Sajjan praised the effective role of Kurdish Peshmerga forces in the war against Islamic State (IS) in northern Iraq, and reiterated that the sacrifices by Peshmerga are highly valued by Canadians.

He highlighted Barzani’s role in leading the “brave Peshmerga forces” and managing the crises in the region. Such successful leadership encourages Canada to continue supporting the Kurdistan Region, Sajjan stressed.

The Canadian official pointed out that he will be discussing further supports for Kurdistan Region once he returned to Canada, hoping to increase the size of supports for the Peshmerga and refugees settled in the Kurdistan Region ...
A bit more in the brief statement from the Kurdish Region President's info-machine attached.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: MCG on December 23, 2015, 12:56:19
There will be at least 2,000 but it looks like Canada will not make the 10,000 refugees in country goal by year end.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/10k-syrian-refugees-may-not-be-on-canadian-soil-by-year-s-end-mccallum-1.3378261
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Halifax Tar on December 23, 2015, 13:10:45
There will be at least 2,000 but it looks like Canada will not make the 10,000 refugees in country goal by year end.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/10k-syrian-refugees-may-not-be-on-canadian-soil-by-year-s-end-mccallum-1.3378261

Do I blame Harper for this ?  I dunno I feel so confused...

;)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on December 23, 2015, 13:20:13
Do I blame Harper for this ?  I dunno I feel so confused...

;)

I saw McCallum's news conference and thought it was an exercise in talking in circles. The 10,000 by 31 Jan was a liberal promise which clearly they can't make, but was self imposed with Canadians probably not really caring about numbers. Why not just say they can't make the number? It's THEIR number!

Also, what's up with the refugees needing extra time to sell property and say good bye? We were led to believe these people were desperate... seems somewhat the opposite
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on December 23, 2015, 14:09:47
I saw McCallum's news conference and thought it was an exercise in talking in circles. The 10,000 by 31 Jan was a liberal promise which clearly they can't make, but was self imposed with Canadians probably not really caring about numbers. Why not just say they can't make the number? It's THEORY number!

Also, what's up with the refugees needing extra time to sell property and say good bye? We were led to believe these people were desperate... seems somewhat the opposite

Yep, it just does not fit the narrative.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on January 06, 2016, 19:53:24
This (http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/06/pitting-vets-vs-refugees-is-un-canadian-mitic-says-2), from Ottawa city councillor and CF vet Jody Mitic:
Quote
... "I didn't go fight in Afghanistan to not help Syrian refugees" ... Mitic ... said he was "bummed" Wednesday when people on social media suggested Canada should do more for its war vets rather than help Syrian refugees fleeing from war.  "I don't want people to feel sorry for me because we're bringing in refugees," Mitic said in an interview.  "One is not the other, and don't use veterans as a wedge issue just because you don't like refugees." ...
QFTFT
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on January 06, 2016, 20:22:11
He also said later in the article that he doesn't understand why we can't do both. Completely agree. If we can bring in 5,000 refugees in a couple months, we should be able to quickly find homes and link into support systems for the roughly 2,500 homeless vets out there right now.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on January 06, 2016, 21:02:05
QFTFT

Can you translate that for the slower members of the audience, please?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on January 06, 2016, 21:06:21
Can you translate that for the slower members of the audience, please?
Politely put, Q-uoted F-or T-he F-lipping T-ruth ...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on January 06, 2016, 21:22:18
Thanks.  You learn something new every day.  :salute:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on January 09, 2016, 18:19:03
Niiiiiiice (http://globalnews.ca/news/2443730/syrian-refugees-pepper-sprayed-in-vancouver/) ...
Quote
More than a dozen Syrian refugees were pepper sprayed late Friday night in an incident that police are treating as a hate crime.

The attack happened outside the Muslim Association of Canada Centre during a “welcome night” event for newly-arrived Syrian refugees.

City police said a crowd of men, women and children had gathered outside the MAC centre when a man wearing a white hoodie apparently rode by on a bicycle and sprayed 15 to 30 people, including some young children.

Police said that a number of people were treated on scene, but there was no word of any serious injuries ...
This (http://mediareleases.vpd.ca/2016/01/09/police-continue-to-investigate-pepper-spraying/) from Vancouver PD ...
Quote
The VPD’s Major Crime Section is continuing to investigate last night’s pepper-spraying outside of the Muslim Association of Canada Centre.

Shortly after 10:30 p.m., a large crowd of refugees were gathered outside of the Muslim Association of Canada Centre located at 2122 Kingsway Avenue when an unknown man on a bicycle rode up and pepper-sprayed a group of men, women and children.

A number of people were treated for exposure to the pepper-spray by paramedics and the Vancouver Fire and Rescue Service.

Police are searching for the man on the bicycle, who is believed to have been wearing a white hooded sweatshirt.

A number of sections within the Vancouver Police Department are assisting with the investigation. Although the motive for the pepper-spraying is unknown at this time, investigators are treating it as a hate motivated crime, until determined otherwise.

No arrests have been made and the investigation is ongoing.
... and this (http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1027139&tp=980) from the immigration minister:
Quote
“I was appalled when I heard of last night’s incident outside the Muslim Association of Canada Centre in Vancouver, in which an unknown assailant pepper sprayed a group of Syrian refugees. Paramedics treated more than two dozen men, women and children for exposure to the noxious substance.

“That the group was there to attend an event welcoming them to Canada only makes this attack even more infuriating and reprehensible.

“Canadians know that this incident is an affront to our values as a nation, and is at odds with the overwhelmingly positive welcome that Syrian refugees have received in communities across our country.

“I am sure that welcoming community spirit will endure, and will grow even stronger in the wake of this disturbing crime. I would also like to assure recently arrived Syrian refugees that those who gathered last night to support and welcome them embody the Canadian spirit. This attack in no way represents their new home.

“As Minister of Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship, I wish all of the victims of last night’s attack a quick recovery, and I look forward to our police and legal system bringing the perpetrator to justice.”
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on January 09, 2016, 18:28:04
That is no cool.  I hope they find who did it and make them account for their actions.  The victims weren't asking for trouble, would be a different story if it was the bunch from Cologne.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on January 10, 2016, 09:25:32
Meanwhile, standby (at least some) CFBs (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/01/08/red-cross-gears-up-to-house-syrian-refugees-at-military-bases-in-coming-weeks_n_8940872.html) - highlights mine...
Quote
Refugee agencies and the Red Cross are racing to line up housing for thousands of Syrians in the coming weeks as the focus of the Liberal government's program shifts from refugees with private sponsors to those assisted by the government alone.

Three military bases in Ontario and Quebec should be ready by the end of next week to provide essential services for government-assisted refugees, said Hossam Elsharkawi, associate vice president, international operations for the Canadian Red Cross.

"We are not able at this stage to quite understand how many weeks they will stay at these centres, but at least these centres will have the capacity of three to four thousand refugees," he said.

( ... )

Since the start of the program, military bases were eyed for housing needs, but neither the Defence Department nor the Immigration Department would elaborate Friday on the plan to use them.

CFB Kingston and CFB Valcartier have always been at the top of the list, followed by Meaford, Petawawa, Trenton and Borden.

"Due to the many factors influencing if and when a refugee will have to go to an (interim lodging site), it is premature to speculate on the scale of possible operations," Faith St. John, a spokesperson for the Immigration Department wrote in an e-mail ...
Re:  the bit in yellow, here's the list of all the "possibles" from the Op PROVISION backgrounder (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/operations-abroad/op-provision.page):
Quote
If requested, the CAF is prepared to provide interim lodging for refugees at the following bases/wings in Ontario and Quebec:

- Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Kingston;
- CFB Borden;
- 8 Wing Trenton;
- 4th Canadian Division Training Centre in Meaford, Ontario; and
- Garrison Petawawa; and
- 2nd Canadian Division Support Base Valcartier.

Title: Prep continues ...
Post by: milnews.ca on January 11, 2016, 07:10:29
Wanted:  someone to cater meals (http://bit.ly/1P2t8gc) (more in attached) and do laundry/dry cleaning (http://bit.ly/1ZWcExW) for refugees @ CFB Borden - just seeking information for now.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on February 05, 2016, 07:39:28
Some of the latest (http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/2016/02/04/borden-and-meaford-bases-wont-house-syrians) ...
Quote
Plans to temporarily house Syrian refugees at Canadian Forces Base Borden and the base in Meaford have been cancelled.

According to Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC), officials have determined that only two of Canada's military bases will be asked to house some of the 25,000 Syrian refugees expected to land on Canadian soil by the end of March.

“We are going back to regular operations,” said Capt. Rob Bungay, media spokesman at CFB Borden west of Barrie, who said they received the news on Monday of this week.

The IRCC has stated only two interim lodging sites, including CFBs Kingston and Valcartier, will maintain a state of “high-readiness” in the event extra lodgings are required for the refugees.

Together, the two eastern Ontario and Quebec bases offer approximately 3,000 beds, which the ministry feels would provide sufficient capacity if needed at all.

Two weeks ago, the Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Jonathan Vance directed the Canadian Armed Forces to be prepared to provide interim lodging for up to 13,000 refugees should the need arise.

Bungay said there are 220 winterized accommodations at Borden's Blackdown Cadet Training Centre that could be used to house 1,500 Syrian refugees if it was requested of them.

Bungay said each family unit is configured with bunk beds, tables, chairs, coat rack and lockers.

Family units were recently upgraded with mats, insulated flooring and heating units, and Bungay added that medical clinics and dining halls are already heated and insulated.

However, all current preparations at CFBs Borden, Meaford, Petawawa and Trenton have ceased ...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on February 09, 2016, 17:21:47
And here's the risk you run writing stories (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/09/canadian-government-plans-to-turn-seven-military-bases-into-publicly-funded-migrant-camps/) about past briefing notes* in the present tense ...
Quote
The government of Canada has ordered its military to draw up plans for migrant camps that will allow more than 6,000 Muslims to be housed on a long-term basis at several Canadian Forces Bases.

Planning documents for migrant camps requested by the centre-left Liberal government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau (pictured) were released in response to an ‘Access to Information’ request from the political website, The Rebel.

The request asked for information regarding religious expenditure by the Department of National Defence (DND). Planning documents in English and French — published at The Rebel website — show the planned use of taxpayer funding goes way beyond the provision of shelter in migrant camps at military bases.

Hundreds of thousands of Canadian dollars have reportedly been set aside for “religious support” to fund the purchase of Qurans, prayer mats and foot-washing towels, as well as the construction of mosques or “worship centres”, with CAN$216,ooo for Quebec bases alone.

In total seven Canadian Forces Bases across the provinces of Quebec (2 bases) and Ontario (5) will be affected, with the budget for Quebec alone totaling more than CAD$46 million for the first six months. Eviction warnings were first sent to Canadian soldiers in their barracks in November last year ...
On that bit in yellow, uh, no they won't all be at this point ...
Still, let's not delay the outrage bus any longer than we have to (http://www.therebel.media/breaking_liberals_to_build_refugee_camps_on_canadian_military_bases_taxpayers_will_fund_mosques_korans) ...
Quote
... It’s shocking that Canadian Armed Forces personnel will be ordered to abandon the coalition battle against ISIS and return to Canada to become waiters, chauffeurs and social workers for Muslim migrants, and that Canadian Forces Bases will be turned into squalid refugee camps ...
:facepalm:

* - Although I WILL give credit to the outlet for sharing at least some of the material they obtained and wrote about to allow readers to reach their own conclusions - most media don't share their "obtained" documentation obtained via ATIP.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on February 09, 2016, 19:32:54
Jokes on him, most PMQ housing and single quarters already resemble squalid refugee camps.
Title: Re: The Mega "MIGRANT THREAT TO EUROPE" thread
Post by: Jarnhamar on February 14, 2016, 10:01:35
I couldn't find a better place for this.

Good news is our new friends seem to be learning how to work the system, just like good Canadians.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/syrian-refugees-bedbugs-follow-feb10-1.3442623
Quote
mmigrant Services Association of Nova Scotia says staff thoroughly inspected an apartment to ensure it was bedbug-free before moving in a family of six Syrian refugees on Feb. 1.
Director of operations Gerry Mills said families are moved into safe and appropriate housing, and ISANS staff keep the health and well-being of refugees in mind.

"Our staff know what bedbugs look like and since Friday we've had staff there every day in different apartments, honestly trying to look for bedbugs. We have found not one bedbug," she said.

Gerry Mills, director of operations at ISANS, says the Zeinas's apartment was swept for bedbugs. (Elizabeth Chiu/CBC)

On Tuesday, Ziad Zeina told CBC News through an interpreter that he wanted to get his family out of their two-bedroom apartment on Gerrish Street because the bedbug problem "is non-stop and it's not going to change and there's no solution at this moment."

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: kratz on February 14, 2016, 10:57:13
I read the same news report, but wasn't certain if there was a good place for discussion on it here.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on February 14, 2016, 11:54:37
I couldn't find a better place for this.

Good news is our new friends seem to be learning how to work the system, just like good Canadians.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/syrian-refugees-bedbugs-follow-feb10-1.3442623

This story has been making the rounds.

This Iman in Edmonton is a good candidate for DEPORTATION, but we know that Trudeau is highly unlikely to carry out any such action:

http://www.therebel.media/syrian_refugees_in_alberta_welcomed_with_prayer_destroy_enemies_of_islam
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on February 14, 2016, 12:58:54
I read the same news report, but wasn't certain if there was a good place for discussion on it here.

I think there's a penchant to blow any story involving refugees, especially Muslims, out of proportion.  Social Media is full of stories and comments about giving help and what not to refugees when homeless (and homeless vets) are suffering. Most of those people didn't seem to give a crap about the homeless until it was a convenient argument against refugees, right?

So someone is trying to rip off the system, how is that news?  As I said in my post they're a new family here and they've already realized they can try and buck the system with a false claim. I'm going to guess they, and others in the same boat, realize being a refugee will give them a bit of political clout when it comes to the media or politicians.
When we army types live away from home we're lucky to have heat or a roof that doesn't leak.  If you go to Connaught in Ottawa on a tasking you're instructed to bring your own bed sheets. These people are given free lodging in the form of their own apartment but it's not good enough. Stuff like this effects public support and compassion IMO.
Lastly there seems to be a number of cases where stories of refugees in the news get hidden or pushed to the side. In some places (Sweden, Germany) the government is outright trying to coverup and hide refugee-related problems. It'll be interesting to see if Canada follows the same path.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: S.M.A. on February 17, 2016, 01:49:06
It seems Trudeau's pledge to take in more Syrian refugees overlooked those who came into Canada via the US:

CBC (https://ca.news.yahoo.com/syrian-boy-seeking-refugee-status-050000826.html)

Quote
Syrian boy seeking refugee status ordered deported to United States
[CBC]

February 15, 2016
A 16-year-old Syrian boy who arrived at the Canadian border at Fort Erie, Ont., claiming refugee status last month was taken into custody and placed in isolation for three weeks in a Toronto detention centre.

Last week, officials with the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) ordered the boy deported, because by law, Canada no longer accepts refugees who come through the United States.

But his lawyers say the boy is an unaccompanied minor and should be allowed into Canada to claim refugee status.

(...SNIPPED)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on February 17, 2016, 07:51:41
It seems Trudeau's pledge to take in more Syrian refugees overlooked those who came into Canada via the US:

CBC (https://ca.news.yahoo.com/syrian-boy-seeking-refugee-status-050000826.html)
I'm sympathetic about the plight of folks who've been f**ked over in Syria, but this causes me pause:
Quote
... Mohammed's family fled Syria for Egypt after the war began. But when Mohammed turned 16, his residency permit in Egypt expired. He faced being sent back to Syria and being conscripted into the military.

Fearing that, his parents flew with him to the United States and then arranged to get him to the Canadian border. They believed Canada's openness to accept Syrian refugees meant he would be safe here while they flew back to Egypt ...
Were they in a refugee camp?  Someplace else?  As usual with media stories, we're not hearing the WHOLE story. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on February 25, 2016, 08:01:18
If I'm reading the French correctly, it looks like the CF bases won't be needed after all (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-canadienne/201602/24/01-4954224-refugies-les-bases-militaires-ne-seront-finalement-pas-utilisees.php) ...
Quote
À quelques jours de la date butoir que s'était fixée le gouvernement Trudeau pour l'accueil des 25 000 réfugiés syriens, tout porte à croire que les bases militaires rénovées pour leur arrivée ne seront pas utilisées.

À la sortie du caucus libéral mercredi, le ministre de l'Immigration, des Réfugiés et de la Citoyenneté, John McCallum, a indiqué que nous étions au «point où l'on n'aura pas besoin des bases militaires».

En séance de breffage technique un peu plus tôt, des hauts fonctionnaires n'avaient toutefois pas fermé complètement la porte à ce que les bases de Valcartier, près de Québec, et Trenton, en Ontario, soient éventuellement réquisitionnées. Ils excluaient toutefois qu'elles puissent être utilisées cette semaine ...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on May 06, 2016, 12:41:56
Some giving back (http://bit.ly/1O36hXR) ...
Quote
When Rita Khanchet saw images of a vicious wildfire destroying homes and uprooting tens of thousands of people in Fort McMurray, she immediately thought of Syria, the homeland she fled just five months ago with her husband and young son.

Khanchet and her family know first-hand how scary it is to leave a community, home and possessions behind, and she was determined to help the people of Fort McMurray.

“It’s not easy to lose everything. We can understand them more than anyone in Canada. We were in the same situation,” said Khanchet, who lives in Calgary.

“Me and my family wanted to do something for these people. Canadian society helped us when we came to Canada.”

Syrian refugees across Calgary are now giving what little they have to northern Albertans, after Khanchet posted an appeal in Arabic on a private Facebook group the newcomers created and frequent.

“(Canadians) gave us everything. And now it’s time to return the favour,” she wrote.

A fellow Syrian refugee translated and shared Khanchet’s post with a wider community on the Syrian Refugee Support Group page, and within hours offers of help came in from new Canadians determined to give back to their new home.

“All the Syrians are saying, ‘I’m ready to give, I’m ready to give,’ ” said Saima Jamal, a co-founder of the Syrian Refugee Support Group.

“It’s amazing. You have to understand how little these guys have . . . But they understand the idea of an entire city losing their home. That’s something they can easily relate to. They went through that.” ...
Something about having walked a mile in similar shoes ...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: S.M.A. on June 09, 2016, 21:20:20
"Photo op" or "Selfie op" ?  :blotto:

Yahoo Daily Brew (https://ca.news.yahoo.com/language-training-for-refugees-no-laughing-matter-221357934.html)

Quote
Language training for refugees no laughing matter, Rempel says
[Daily Brew]

June 7, 2016


BY: Trevor Koroll

A response from Immigration Minister John McCallum may have been hysterical to his colleagues in the House of Commons, but one Tory MP wasn’t laughing.

Conservative MP Michelle Rempel questioned McCallum again on Tuesday about funding cuts to language training for refugees.

“Yesterday, when the minister stood here and glibly claimed that he had a plan to address language training, was he looking at these cuts, or was he planning his next photo op?” asked Rempel.

(...SNIPPED)

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on August 03, 2016, 07:54:07
Too bad the slavers couldn't be summarily slaughtered...   >:(
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on August 13, 2016, 20:28:31
Interesting point (http://vocm.com/news/local-refugees-call-on-trudeau-for-same-support-as-offered-to-syria/) - shared under the Fair Dealing provisions (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-42/page-19.html#h-26) of the Copyright Act (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-42) (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-42/index.html) ...
Quote
Local refugees (in Newfoundland) from South Sudan are calling on Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to offer the same concern and support for displaced Sudanese people as the country has for Syria.

Overshadowed by war in Syria, the civil war in South Sudan has displaced over a million people, and resulted in an estimated 300,000 civilian casualties since 2013.

While a peace treaty was signed last August, war has broken out again, prompting the UN to consider intervening. Sudanese-Newfoundlander Benjamin James came to St. John's as a refugee in 2010. He says the sooner the better.

He says as a child he saw things that no child should see, and now he hopes Prime Minister and the people of Canada can speak out and do something to help the people of South Sudan.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: AbdullahD on August 13, 2016, 21:33:28
So I didn't feel this little tid bit needed its own thread but a neat little aside... about the character and motivation of the refugees in kamloops.

One Syrian brother (and his family) got work shortly after coming to canada, one of them within 24hrs of getting posted to kamloops. I let one of them know (since we are on good terms) that I am submitting my applicaton for the Canadian forces in the first week of september and he got very excited, he told me that once he was a Canadian citizen his intention is to sign up :)

So I told him I "believe" people with Permanent residence status were good too and I would doubke check and the guy darn near wanted to sign up then and there :)

Now dont get me wrong when thousands of people come, a few bad ones may get in too. But this family at least are not trying to be bumbs on the log.

Had to get it out, a lot of the Syrians feel a lot of love for Canada because of what we have done and want to pay Canada back.

Abdullah
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: mariomike on August 25, 2016, 14:36:12
Aug 25, 2016

Ontario puts another $1.55M to refugee settlement, support
http://www.680news.com/2016/08/25/ontario-puts-another-1-55m-to-refugee-settlement-support/
Ontario is putting another $1.55 million toward refugee supports, including settlement services, mental health care and programming for students.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Lightguns on August 25, 2016, 15:10:39
Aug 25, 2016

Ontario puts another $1.55M to refugee settlement, support
http://www.680news.com/2016/08/25/ontario-puts-another-1-55m-to-refugee-settlement-support/
Ontario is putting another $1.55 million toward refugee supports, including settlement services, mental health care and programming for students.

Well, it's a good thing they raised license plate sticker prices, wouldn't want to go in the hole!
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Bass ackwards on August 25, 2016, 15:15:13
Aug 25, 2016

Ontario puts another $1.55M to refugee settlement, support
http://www.680news.com/2016/08/25/ontario-puts-another-1-55m-to-refugee-settlement-support/
Ontario is putting another $1.55 million toward refugee supports, including settlement services, mental health care and programming for students.

I wonder exactly what they mean by programming...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: mariomike on August 25, 2016, 15:32:49
I wonder exactly what they mean by programming...

It's Ontario, B A. You don't wanna know...  :)
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on September 10, 2016, 21:32:46

Now and then I read stories about Syrian refugees  upset and being mistreated - like in London a couple months ago blow
http://www.lfpress.com/2016/06/14/londons-cross-cultural-learner-centre-mistreated-refugees-20-just-arrived-syrians-say
Quote
Staff at the London Cross Cultural Learner Centre (CCLC) — the agency that settled more than 900 Syrians since December — “did not do their duties as they should,” states the letter.

The complaint goes on to list four examples in which the centre “failed to take care . . . and help,” said the refugees who signed it:

    The hotel many were placed in was understaffed and inadequate
    Medical services were not provided in a timely manner, leaving many kids very ill — “some we would argue were at risk of death”
    The food was “borderline unsuitable for human consumption”
    People have been forced into apartments, often too small for their families, without any choice of location

Few more quick examples.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/programs/metromorning/syrian-refugees-hotel-toronto-1.3418220
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/syrian-refugees-food-banks-1.3562887
http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonton/2015/09/29/syrian-family-trapped-by-pests.html


I came across the story below about a 19 year old Syrian woman  holding the line so to speak and dying in the process.  It's got me thinking maybe instead of trying to mass settle tens of thousands of refugees (then seemingly forgetting about them) we should have been offering women like Asia Ramazan Antar (and men, of course) more support.



https://www.funker530.com/?s=heroic+19-year&limit=10&ixsl=1
Quote
Heroic 19-Year-Old YPJ Fighter Falls Stopping 3 ISIS SVBIEDs

Nineteen-year-old female YPJ Kurdish fighter Asia Ramazan Antar has been killed while stopping 3 ISIS SVBIEDs advancing on her position.

On September 9, 2016, a heroic YPJ fighter by the name of Asia Ramazan Antar, a light machine gunner, was killed in action. Three Daesh SVBIEDs were advancing on her units position, near the Kurdish front-lines, when she and the rest of her squad stayed in place to defeat them. Two of of the three vehicles were destroyed by the YPJ unit, but the third detonated close to their position, killing Antar immediately according to the YPJ spokeswoman Commander Shirin Abdullah.

Antar was known by western media as the “Kurdish Angelina Jolie,” because of her stunning good looks. Antar however preferred to own this name, not because of her looks, but because of her respect for the Jolie’s own humanitarian missions around the world. She joined the Women’s Protection Unit in 2014, at the age of 17, with the hopes of freeing other women in Syria. Her PKM was never far from her side, and according to the spokeswoman for her unit, she died firing it.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on September 10, 2016, 22:09:04
I came across the story below about a 19 year old Syrian woman  holding the line so to speak and dying in the process.  It's got me thinking maybe instead of trying to mass settle tens of thousands of refugees (then seemingly forgetting about them) we should have been offering women like Asia Ramazan Antar (and men, of course) more support.

https://www.funker530.com/?s=heroic+19-year&limit=10&ixsl=1
Here's where the "Kurds within Kurds" thing comes in -- the group this woman's fighting with (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Protection_Units) is part of this Kurdish group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units), which is under this group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Union_Party_(Syria)), which Turkey says is still part of this group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party), which Canada still lists as a terrorist group (http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/crrnt-lstd-ntts-en.aspx#2035).

Clear as mud, right?  ;D
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on September 11, 2016, 08:51:26
Thanks for trying but no  not clear at all lol
What a mess.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on September 11, 2016, 08:56:51
Thanks for trying but no  not clear at all lol
You're not alone!

What a mess.
Sadly, that part IS clear ...
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on December 19, 2016, 15:26:54
The NY Times shares the story of one family settled in Toronto (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/world/americas/syrian-refugees-canada.html), with a lot of stuff being sorted out at a lot of levels -- shared under the Fair Dealing provisions (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-42/page-9.html#h-26) of the Copyright Act (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-42) (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-42/index.html)
Quote
Wonder and Worry, as a Syrian Child Transforms

Canada welcomes Syrian refugees like no other country. But for one 10-year-old’s parents, is she leaving too much behind?

By CATRIN EINHORN and JODI KANTORDEC. 17, 2016

TORONTO — As soon as Bayan Mohammad, a 10-year-old Syrian refugee, arrived here last winter, she began her transformation. In her first hour of ice-skating, she managed to glide on her own. She made fast friends with girls different from any she had ever known. New to competitive sports, she propelled herself down the school track so fast that she was soon collecting ribbons.

Bayan glued herself to the movie “Annie,” the ballet “Cinderella” and episodes of “Wheel of Fortune,” all stories of metamorphosis. As her English went from halting to chatty, she ticked off everything she hungered to do: An overnight school trip. Gymnastics lessons. Building a snowman — no, a snow-woman.

“I just want to be Canadian,” she said.

The volunteers resettling her family — a group of teachers, pediatricians and other friends and neighbors spurred by devastating images of young refugees and casualties of war — watched Bayan with wonder. Her parents, Abdullah and Eman Mohammad, a former grocery store owner and a nurse from a rural village, felt both pride and alarm.

Coming to Canada with their four children, they had braced themselves for the hostility that so many refugees were encountering around the world, including just across the border, where Donald J. Trump warned of the threat posed by Syrian refugees. Instead, they found a national movement to aid them.

As Syria shattered, everyday citizens, called private sponsors, were adopting the newcomers, donating their time and thousands of dollars to help guide them through their first year. The volunteers attended to the family’s every need: an apartment, doctors, tips on finding a mosque and halal food. The sponsors even applied to bring other family members to Canada — and still they wanted to know what more they could do.

The Mohammads were astonished and grateful. But over 10 months, the relationship was reshaping the family, rewriting roles and rules they had always followed. Abdullah and Eman found their marriage on new ground, the fundamental compact between them shifting. Bayan, their oldest child, was going from girl to adolescent, Middle Eastern to North American all at the same time. She was the one most likely to remember their now-obliterated life in Syria. On some days, her parents believed that she could meld her old and new identities; on others, they feared her Syrianness was being erased.

If the family had landed in Munich or Minneapolis, they would have encountered new cultural dilemmas, too. But Canada’s unusual private sponsorship system made them especially acute, because it was so intimate. The Canadians and Syrians were in and out of one another’s homes for tutoring, computer lessons or celebrations. They shared parental tasks like communication with teachers, since the Mohammads spoke little English. “What they gave us, a brother wouldn’t even give to his own brother,” Mr. Mohammad said.

Still, when one sponsor took the children to a ballet performance, Bayan twirled her way home and then begged for lessons — which would involve revealing outfits that would make her parents uncomfortable. The sponsors invited the children to make gingerbread houses and sing carols. Did saying yes mean that the strict Muslim family would be celebrating a Christian holiday?

“Sponsorship brings the tension between East and West so close,” said Sam Nammoura, a Syrian-Canadian refugee advocate in Calgary, Alberta.

The Mohammads had left Syria and then Jordan to safeguard their children — but once they arrived here, they were bewildered by what they found. Why were teenagers here allowed to stay out past midnight? Did children move away from home at 18 and never look back? How much control did parents even have?

“Every day I have this dilemma,” Mrs. Mohammad said. “Am I letting the kids do the right thing?”

In October, Bayan craved one item above all on her wish list: to join her school’s overnight trip. For three days at the end of the month, the whole fifth grade would travel to an island in Toronto’s harbor, exploring, conducting science experiments and sleeping in dorms.

“I want to go but my dad said no,” Bayan said over a family lunch of chicken and stuffed cabbage rolls.

Her parents felt their children belonged at home; they had never been on a sleepover.

“I want to go!” Bayan repeated. “I’m sad because my best friends are going.” By Canadian or American standards, she was being polite: no eye-rolling or accusations.

But in Syria, children are bound to respect the authority of their parents, even in adulthood. The rule had governed the Mohammad family for generations, backed up by relatives, friends, an entire culture. Within months of arriving in Canada, Bayan shocked her parents by beginning to question their decisions out loud.

“She’s stronger now, here, and she tries to express herself more than in Syria,” her mother explained.

Bayan knew she had a quiet ally at the lunch table that day: Kerry McLorg, the organizer of the sponsor group. Meticulous and restrained, Ms. McLorg never wanted to push the Mohammads, and when they asked for her advice, she tended to answer with clinical distance, lest her own preferences show.

But she knew Bayan yearned for the adventure. She and the other sponsors saw it as another step in the girl’s integration into Canada. Her two children had gone on the trip years ago and still talked about the traditions — visiting a lighthouse, telling ghost stories.

“Every kid in Toronto does this,” Ms. McLorg had told Bayan’s parents when they had asked. “Academically, it’s not important. But socially, it is very important.”

Mr. Mohammad told Bayan again: No trip. He was not an immigrant who set out to adapt to a new world; he was a refugee trying to hold on to what had been ripped from him. “We’re forced to be here,” Mr. Mohammad said later. “We’re happy, but we’re forced to be here.”

He still had a shot at preserving the identity he wanted for Bayan, but he and his wife would have to be vigilant, willing to deny their daughter some of what she wanted.

“I will do this for her,” he said. “God help us.”

Shifting Family Dynamics

Only one thing about Canada seemed to disconcert Bayan: its types of families she had never seen or even imagined. She was troubled by the concept of divorce, by classmates whose parents lived in separate homes. “My mom and dad, they will not do that,” she declared.

The Mohammads were from a particularly conservative village in Daraa Province. Their union was arranged by their families and governed by clear tenets. Back home, Eman Mohammad, 36, did not leave the house without asking her husband’s permission. She did not socialize with men who were not relatives. Women in the village did not drive. Against the odds, and Abdullah’s initial reluctance, she had worked as a nurse, one of only a few women in her circle to be employed outside the home after having children.

Now she was far more at home in Canada than he was. She attended her first modern dance performance, thrilled by the surprise and emotion. When her husband, 36, turned down a supermarket job this summer, unsure of what kind of work he wanted, she joked that she would take it. She was determined to get certified as a nurse again, even though that would require years of language instruction and coursework.

Meanwhile, she found new purpose: helping lead a therapy group for Syrian women coping with trauma and displacement. Standing in front of a whiteboard, she peppered her presentations with motivational statements: “Nothing is impossible.” “When we work, we are helping society around us, not ourselves alone.” She earned about 70 Canadian dollars for each weekly session.

Being in Canada “opened new doors for me that I didn’t even know existed,” Mrs. Mohammad said.

Her husband, however, was having difficulty. In Syria, he co-owned a grocery store and two butcher shops, and had been the unquestioned head of the household. Now the sponsors were helping support his family, along with government subsidies. While his wife went to one of the therapy groups, he took care of Bayan and the younger children, and he had been helping in the kitchen.

“Sometimes I feel weak doing these things,” he said. “It’s a woman’s job.” He told himself that spending more time with his children would draw them closer.

Bayan had ambitions for her father: to learn to swim, to drive, to buy a car with six seats. “I dream, like, all the time we have a big house and a pool,” she said.

But Mr. Mohammad was nowhere near finding work that could support a family of six in an expensive city, and he felt torn about whether he should continue to study English full time or just get the best job he could. “I feel lost,” he had said. Because his wife’s language skills were better, he sometimes was left out of conversations. (The Mohammads asked not to be identified by their full surnames, because they feared reprisals against relatives still in Syria. This article uses part of their family name.)

If Syria heals, Mr. Mohammad said, he definitely wants to go back.

His wife countered: “My future and my kids’ future is in this country.”

We have been reporting on Canada's unusual welcome of Syrian refugees for nearly a year, paying frequent visits to the Mohammad family, the volunteers helping them, and other Syrians and Canadians involved in private sponsorship.

Then they laughed. The marriages of many Syrians who had come to Canada were far more strained, they knew, the traditional arrangements difficult to replant on new soil. Mrs. Mohammad’s counseling groups were filled with women whose husbands had turned bitter at the changed circumstances. Some wives were finally reporting years of domestic abuse.

The Mohammads tried to mitigate their differences with kindness. She found ways to telegraph respect for her husband’s authority — before buying a new dress, she texted him a photo and the price for approval. For fortitude with child care duties, he turned to Islamic teachings about the value of helping one’s wife. The two had long conversations about a new favorite word, “flexibility.”

Even as Eman Mohammad craved opportunities for herself, she was not sure how much freedom she wanted for Bayan. In Syria, the path was restrictive but clear. If the war had never happened, she would already be wearing a head scarf and attending a girls’ school. Most girls in her village married at 14 or 15, though the Mohammads would have waited until at least 18. Even if she pursued university there, she would not go on unsupervised dates, get offered a beer at a party, or live alone.

Now that she was in Canada, her mother felt, there was no longer a map for her daughter’s life. “I want to try everything here,” Bayan said.

On the day of the school trip, with her classmates off on Toronto Island in a freezing rain, the family moved on to their next cultural debate.

“What is the meaning of Halloween?” Mrs. Mohammad asked. The holiday was four days away.

Bayan burst with answers. It was about being frightened in a fun way, she said, dressing as skeletons and ghosts. “It has to be something scary,” she explained. She wanted to wear a devil costume.

One of the sponsors had already arranged to take them trick-or-treating. But what Mrs. Mohammad had heard about the holiday made her dubious. Her children would celebrate death and horror, after they had escaped the real thing? Should she worry that her daughter wanted to dress as a symbol of evil? Did Canadians really believe in people coming back from the dead?

Just then, Ms. McLorg arrived at the family’s apartment with a giant pumpkin for the children to carve. Bayan had asked Ms. McLorg to join them for the coming trick-or-treat date, but the sponsor did not realize how Mrs. Mohammad felt.

Ms. McLorg was trying to introduce Canadian customs without imposing on the family’s own. “They should not have to change their essence in order to become Canadian,” Ms. McLorg said later. In fact, the country officially encourages new arrivals to maintain their own culture.

In the end, they all celebrated Halloween. Another sponsor hosted them for dinner and cookies: long slivers of shortbread with red icing and almond nails, meant to look like bloody fingers. Ms. McLorg arrived in a pink bunny suit. On the costume question, Bayan and her mother had reached a middle ground: a zombie princess.

Abdullah Mohammad headed home early; Bayan pleaded to stay later. Her mother surveyed the spiderwebs and chains lacing the street, watching her children merge into the flowing highway of trick-or-treaters.

Memories of Home

Two weeks later, Mrs. Mohammad and her two daughters were propelled into a local Walmart by Bayan’s sheer force of will. She longed for a pair of sparkly purple sneakers, and begged, nagged and nearly cried until her mother agreed.

As they navigated the aisles, mother and daughters looked like members of two different families. Mrs. Mohammad wore her head scarf, neck-to-toe gown and shawl, while the girls were in leggings and skinny jeans.

The question about when Bayan would start covering her head loomed over her and her parents. As they were in Canada, her mother was willing to postpone it until seventh grade.

“No!” Bayan yelled when she overheard her mother talking about it. She looked ugly with her head covered, she thought. “When I’m in grade nine — maybe,” she said.

But the next day, Bayan and her mother slipped inside a building a few blocks from their apartment, where the 10-year-old kicked off the brand-new sneakers and knelt. Her mother draped a thin scarf over her daughter’s head, expertly folding, tucking and pinning until it covered her hair without a strand showing.

This was Islamic school at the mosque, a new fixture of Bayan’s Sundays. For several hours, she studied written Arabic, verses of the Quran and Islamic values with other children. It was the only activity of hers that the sponsors had not been involved in planning; that day, they were taking the rest of the family to a Santa parade, which Bayan was disappointed to miss.

Sunday mornings were a compromise between Bayan and her parents: the single time each week, for now, that she would cover her head.

For the main lesson that day, the teacher, Maimoonah Ali, an 18-year-old whose parents came to Canada as refugees from Eritrea, passed out colored Popsicle sticks and instructed the students to snap them. The sound of splintering wood filled the room. “Sometimes there are tests in life,” she told the children. “And sometimes they break us.”

Then she collected the remaining sticks into a tight bundle. One by one, the students strained and failed to break them. “It’s really, really difficult to break things when they’re all together, right?” Ms. Ali asked. “And that’s exactly like us.”

But it was not clear how much the class was going to do to help secure Bayan’s Syrian identity. In English, she could read at “Cat in the Hat” level, but her Arabic reading was worse, because the war had interrupted her schooling. Bayan was supposed to repeat the verses that a classmate was saying that day, but her partner did not speak Arabic, and Bayan could barely understand her. She was the only Syrian in the school.

Other classmates’ parents came from Algeria, Bangladesh, Ethiopia and Mali. Half the population of Toronto is foreign-born, a reflection of Canada’s openness to immigrants. In her apartment building, Bayan has friends whose families are from Israel and China.

When her father picked her up, she could not take off her hijab fast enough. During lunch at home, as she chatted in English, he interjected: “Arabic!” She continued in a mix of both.

When she talked about the stick exercise, her father gave a look of recognition. “I was Bayan’s age when they told me the same story,” he said.

Their childhoods seemed so disconnected from one another’s. The family left Syria when Bayan was 7 or 8 — they had foundered in Jordan before coming to Canada — and her memories of the home where her family had lived for three generations were dimming.

She could picture playing hide-and-seek with her cousins by the fountain and grapevines in the courtyard, and recall the way an adjacent garden produced enough mint for the whole neighborhood. But Bayan and her sister could no longer agree on how many olive trees stood there: 20? 100? (Eight, their mother said.)

After the Mohammads left Syria, the house next door was shelled or bombed and collapsed on their own home. It was ruined now, the second story gone. The sponsors helped them use Google Maps to try to find what was left, but no one could quite pinpoint it.

“I love that house,” Bayan had said a few days before.

Suddenly, her confidence and determination kicked in.

“We’re going to build it,” she said. “My siblings. All of us.”
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on December 25, 2016, 17:40:26
Frontloaded Syrian refugees for the good press, Liberal government imposing hard cap of 1,000 privately sponsored Syrians coming to Canada next year as an early Christmas present:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/12/24/ottawas-new-cap-on-refugee-applications-upsets-sponsors.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/12/24/ottawas-new-cap-on-refugee-applications-upsets-sponsors.html)

Quote
Ottawa’s new cap on refugee applications upsets sponsors

Private sponsors fear new 1,000-application limit for 2017 will prevent many refugees from escaping danger of war-torn Syria.
Sat., Dec. 24, 2016

The federal government will cap new applications for private sponsorship of Syrian and Iraqi refugees at 1,000 in 2017, due to a backlog and long wait times faced by those whose applications are still being processed.

But some feel the move, announced earlier this week by Citizenship and Immigration Minister John McCallum, betrays the positive global perception Canada has seen since late last year when the Liberals took office and committed to accepting more refugees fleeing the conflict in Syria.

“The government’s playing politics here, on the one hand saying we should be celebrated for being welcoming, and then on the other hand stopping people from being able to get to safety,” said Lesley Wood, a sociology professor at York University who has sponsored two Syrian refugee families.

The government’s policy, which came into effect Dec. 19, places a limit of 1,000 sponsorship applications for the next year by groups of five people or more and community sponsors such as organizations.

It “forms part of a broader strategy to address the large backlog and long wait times in the Privately Sponsored Refugees category,” according to the government.

Nearly 39,000 Syrian refugees have arrived in Canada since November 2015, of which 13,700 have been privately sponsored. But Canada4Refugees, which represents private sponsorship groups, estimated earlier this month fewer than one-third of refugees who applied before April have arrived in Canada, with more than 5,000 applications still being processed.

Wood helped sponsor a family of six who are from near Aleppo and arrived in Canada this past June. The Syrian government took full control of the city, once the stronghold of the rebellion, on Thursday, marking President Bashar Assad’s most significant victory over opposition fighters since the uprising began five years ago.

“They’re worried about their family members,” said Wood. “We’re just starting a new sponsorship to try and raise the money for the woman’s sister, who’s got six kids, so a family of eight. News like this makes us wonder whether we’re going to be able to bring her and her kids. It’s absurd.”

Wood also helped sponsor a second family of four individuals who lost two children in the war. However, she said, they are stuck right now in Jordan because their applications haven’t been processed.

“We were expecting them a year ago, so even when the numbers were moving fast, they weren’t moving fast enough for people whose lives are in danger,” she said.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on December 25, 2016, 17:48:10
Who can blame the hair?  The selfie cow on this issue must be just about milked dry by now.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jarnhamar on December 25, 2016, 18:42:02
Quote
prevent many refugees from escaping danger of war-torn Syria.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the refugees we accepted were not dodging AK fire while running to get on airplanes. They were in UN refugee camps for years. And give or take, less than 3000 of the some 30'000 initially didnèt even want to come to Canada.  Some had to wait until their property and effects were sold.

Hardly life or death.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on December 25, 2016, 18:51:06
I still see that so many are not making the distinction between refugees and immigrants.  Refugees, as I understand it are fleeing the fighting until such time as it is safe to return home.  Immigrants are intentionally moving, for whatever reasons, to make homes in a new country and become citizens of that new country.  If we are talking about bringing in refugees, then what is the Government plan to return them to their homes at a future date when it will be safe to do so?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on December 25, 2016, 22:28:35
I still see that so many are not making the distinction between refugees and immigrants.  Refugees, as I understand it are fleeing the fighting until such time as it is safe to return home.  Immigrants are intentionally moving, for whatever reasons, to make homes in a new country and become citizens of that new country.  If we are talking about bringing in refugees, then what is the Government plan to return them to their homes at a future date when it will be safe to do so?

Nowhere does it state that the intent is to send them back.  Both refugees and immigrants are treated with the goal of integration.  The distinction is limited as to the why they are leaving their country to come to Canada.   

This is from the CIC web site.

Canada’s resettlement programs are respected internationally because they provide permanent residence as a long term solution.

More here at the site that explains Canada's refugee system.  There is no mention of returning them at any point.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/refugees/canada.asp

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on December 26, 2016, 07:17:38
Nowhere does it state that the intent is to send them back.  Both refugees and immigrants are treated with the goal of integration.  The distinction is limited as to the why they are leaving their country to come to Canada.   

This is from the CIC web site.

Canada’s resettlement programs are respected internationally because they provide permanent residence as a long term solution.

More here at the site that explains Canada's refugee system.  There is no mention of returning them at any point.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/refugees/canada.asp

And Remius, you confirm my statement.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: E.R. Campbell on December 26, 2016, 09:20:35
I still see that so many are not making the distinction between refugees and immigrants.  Refugees, as I understand it are fleeing the fighting until such time as it is safe to return home.  Immigrants are intentionally moving, for whatever reasons, to make homes in a new country and become citizens of that new country.  If we are talking about bringing in refugees, then what is the Government plan to return them to their homes at a future date when it will be safe to do so?


The notion that refugees wanted to return home was never enshrined in law ... it existed, as something more than just an idea, prior to the 1940s, but the situation of millions of "displaced persons" in Europe in 1945 put paid to any thought of making "return" part of the equation ~ except, of course, for the Palestinians where the "right of return" is a major political tool.

In a perfect world refugees should be cared for in safe, well managed, places of refuge near their homes ... where and when numbers permit. But how in hell do we "manage" hundreds of thousands of refugees (small cities, actually) in e.g. Dadaab in Kenya, Dollo Ado in Ethiopia or Al Zaatri in Jordan? Do we really believe we can resettle everyone back to Somalia or Syria? But, equally, how many of those refugees are "ready" to adapt to life in Australia or Belgium or Canada? Do we make things better by resettling people here or should we spend billions to make the camps better, safer and so on?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Remius on December 26, 2016, 09:44:53
And Remius, you confirm my statement.

I was actually trying to refute this statement: Refugees, as I understand it are fleeing the fighting until such time as it is safe to return home.

That is a common thought about our refugee system but isn't actual policy.  Hence why there will never be a plan to send them back.  And good luck to the poor fool who tries to make that policy part of any party platform.

I do agree though with Mr. CAmpbell's perfect world argument.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Canuck_Jock on December 26, 2016, 14:31:30
I think the government’s consistent policy is to presume that resettlement of refugees is permanent. This paper compares the Canadian and Australian response to Kosovan refugees: here.  Once Kosovo was secured by NATO, Australia giving them a big cheerio whilst Canada gave them the choice of staying or leaving.

Similarly, in 1998 Germany required that all Bosnian refugees left the country having declared the country safe.
Whether it is right to do is a matter of debate.  Certainly, if refugees were admitted only for the duration of a conflict, then I think the host population at large would be more accommodating.  Alternatively, some conflicts are protracted to decades long, and there is so much power on the migrant/immigrant/refugee advocate industry that I think it is a political non-starter.

Morally, is it questionable to retain refugees?  I see that Germany has commenced a low level programme of teaching the trades so that refugees (70% of the 1 million are working age males) can put them to good use on their return.  There is historic precedent as the quarter million Belgian refugees in the UK 1914-18 were largely concentrated in clumps together and administered themselves.

Imagine if Canada had a policy of teaching refugees construction skills, accountancy, engineering, administration, etc. so that they could help rebuild Syria on their return?  It might prove controversial.  Call me cynical, but no more selfies?? No more heart rending stories of Syrians telling us how fantastic we are and how grateful they are and how much they love Canada. Some segments of the political class can be a bit needy at times.

Although I think it good we have helped several thousand of them, ultimately, there effect would probably be greater in Syria (at war’s end) than here in the longer term.  Certainly, Professor Paul Collier (‘Exodus’) believes that a generous refugee policy followed by a return at conflict’s end, is the best way to rebuild a war torn state.  He calls the returning diaspora, a country’s ‘sovereign wealth fund’.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on January 04, 2017, 20:59:46
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Lack of jobs, housing: why some of Canada's Syrian refugees are relocating (http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-january-3-2017-1.3918513/lack-of-jobs-housing-why-some-of-canada-s-syrian-refugees-are-relocating-1.3918524)
CBC - The Current
Tuesday January 03, 2017

A year ago this December, the first wave of Syrian refugees to Canada arrived in their new homes across the country. But for some, home is still another big move away.

In what's being called a second migration, many refugees from Syria are packing up their lives once again in an effort to find work, to be near family and friends, or even for better weather.

In 2012, Lina Arafeh left Syria for Turkey, and in September moved to Halifax as a refugee, privately sponsored by her friend.

"I love life in Halifax. I love the people. They're very hospitable. The schools are amazing," Arafeh tells The Current's Anna Maria Tremonti.

Arafeh has nine children, five of whom are grown. Her other four are here with her in Canada.

"They have helped my kids adjust. They're doing very very well. I'm happy."

Nonetheless, Arafeh says she plans to move to Toronto when her year of private sponsorship is up. As a  professional interpreter, there are job opportunities in Toronto that don't exist in Halifax.

She says her children are resilient when it comes to having to relocate again.

"These kids I don't know what they're made of. Diamond maybe," she says.

New Brunswick has resettled more refugees per capita than any other province.

About five per cent of Syrian refugees who have settled in New Brunswick this year have left the province and those moves can be hard for the people who sponsor them, according to Janet Hunt. She's part of a welcome team with the YMCA helping government-assisted Syrian families settle in and around Saint John.

Related: Saint John losing Syrian newcomers to larger cities

Three of the families Hunt helped support have left New Brunswick hoping to find job opportunities. But one special family decided to try for one more year mostly because of their close connection to Hunt.

"We've become more than friends,"  Hunt tells Tremonti. "We've become this extended family to each other."

Since last January, settlement agencies estimate that 500 families have moved to Windsor, Ont., from other parts of Canada — the majority are Syrian.

Hugo Vega, chair of Windsor Essex Local Immigration Partnership, says Windsor's large Arabic speaking population, inexpensive housing, and weather make it an attractive location.

Mayas Altahan and her family originally settled in Moncton but moved to Windsor in September.

"I have family members here and they were able to support me, especially with my kids and also the weather. It was cold [in Moncton] and here it's warmer," Altahan says.

"Windsor is different," says Altahan's husband  Ali Alashram.

"I feel safe and happy like the way it was in Syria before."

Vega says this ability to choose the right home is part of what it means to be Canadian.

"They have freedom of mobility and that's something we embrace as far as their choice as a newcomer to be here."

"They've spent time in a conflict that didn't allow them any freedom."

Listen to the full segment at the top of this post.

This segment was produced by The Current's Willow Smith.


More on LINK (http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-january-3-2017-1.3918513/lack-of-jobs-housing-why-some-of-canada-s-syrian-refugees-are-relocating-1.3918524).
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on April 16, 2017, 12:16:08
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Canadians are right to be concerned about border security (http://www.torontosun.com/2017/04/14/canadians-are-right-to-be-concerned-about-border-security)
By Candice Malcolm
First posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 06:09 PM EDT | Updated: Friday, April 14, 2017 06:17 PM EDT

There is a crisis on our southern border. And Canadian officials seem woefully unprepared to deal with the ongoing flow of migrants illegally crossing into Canada.

These illegal crossings create a real security threat, and Canadians are not happy about it.

An Angus Reid poll is the latest to convey this, finding that nearly three-quarters of Canadians prefer a focus on border security rather than providing aid to those illegally crossing into Canada.

There is near unanimous agreement on the fact that these migrants pose a threat to our national security. Of those surveyed, half say the risk of dangerous people entering Canada is ‘significant’ or ‘huge,’ while 93% agreed there is some level of risk.

Canadians are right to be concerned about the self-proclaimed and self-selected refugees coming in through the back door.

A remarkable video by Faith Goldy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwm60fGdio) of The Rebel Media reveals part of the problem.

On a rural road in upstate New York, Goldy’s video captures the moment when a taxi pulls up and drops off a would-be asylum seeker near the border.

“Sir, where are you from?” she asks. “Syria,” he replies as he proceeds towards the border. An RCMP officer can be seen trying to deter the man from crossing illegally.

“Please stop, you cannot enter here,” says the officer. “If you enter here, sir, you will be arrested and criminal charges can be pressed against you.”

“I’m not safe. I’m a refugee,” says the man, repeatedly, as he ignores instructions from police and continues towards Canada.

The RCMP officer instructs the man to report to the Canadian border, three miles away, but the man insists the police do it his way instead.

“Arrest me from here. We will phone them,” he says, and the police finally follow his command. “You’re under arrest” they can be heard saying, as they escort him away while helping carry his luggage.

It’s an unbelievable exchange, and it shows the docile attitude towards protecting our borders.

This asylum seeker knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that if he entered Canada at an official crossing, he would be met by a CBSA officer. The CBSA guard would be able to determine his admissibility to Canada, and has the power to reject him on the spot.

At a land crossing away from a border station, however, there are no CBSA guards – just RCMP officers who have been sent to patrol the border.

This man has clearly been coached. Someone told him exactly where to go and what to say to enter Canada. And it worked. Not only did this man circumvent our immigration laws, he also bypassed our Syrian refugee program.

Under Justin Trudeau, Canada has generously accepted nearly 50,000 Syrian refugees from the war-torn region.

But to address the security risks – the valid concerns about our ability to screen and vet individuals from a hot bed of Islamist terrorism – the Trudeau government limited the program.

Canada only accepts women, children and families from Syria. The program explicitly excludes single men.

That’s because our security officers believe that admitting single, unaccompanied men from Syria is simply too dangerous.

Yet, somehow, a single, unaccompanied man claiming to be from Syria was able to walk right into Canada — without so much as showing his ID.

No wonder Canadians are concerned. These illegal migrants are acting as though our rules and our laws don’t exist. And, shockingly, our officials are too.



More on LINK (http://www.torontosun.com/2017/04/14/canadians-are-right-to-be-concerned-about-border-security).

Well briefed, well coached, persons are being taken to unofficial Border Crossings, and circumventing the system.  These persons can be from any origin, not necessarily Syria, and as such are abusing our Policies.  The Government is showing little concern publicly on this matter.  No wonder people are becoming concerned.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 16, 2017, 14:59:26
What exactly could the police have done differently in that exchange?  I see no way, short of erecting a barrier, of changing that.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Nuggs on April 16, 2017, 15:36:09
I think we should build a wall and make America pay for it

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on April 16, 2017, 15:54:46
I think we should build a wall and make America pay for it

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

#TrudeauWall2017
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on April 16, 2017, 17:05:02
What exactly could the police have done differently in that exchange?  I see no way, short of erecting a barrier, of changing that.

Was that NOT the whole point of the article?  They are hamstrung by our Laws and the loopholes in enforcing them.  The article is aimed at the Government getting off their asses and doing something before the matter worsens.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 16, 2017, 18:55:01
Was that NOT the whole point of the article?  They are hamstrung by our Laws and the loopholes in enforcing them.  The article is aimed at the Government getting off their asses and doing something before the matter worsens.

But what could be done differently?  Canadians can't enforce the law on the US side of the border, the sage third country agreement only applies to actual border crossings, and once they are in Canada, they can only be arrested.  Once they say the word asylum, we have to process their claim.  So, we can't send them back to the US, and even when their claim is done, in most cases, we can't send them home.  I'm not sure the solution.

Further - it was predicted there would be a big spike with warmer weather.  That hasn't happened.  I think there is less actual danger than there is fear. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on April 16, 2017, 19:35:31
But what could be done differently?  Canadians can't enforce the law on the US side of the border, the sage third country agreement only applies to actual border crossings, and once they are in Canada, they can only be arrested.  Once they say the word asylum, we have to process their claim.  So, we can't send them back to the US, and even when their claim is done, in most cases, we can't send them home.  I'm not sure the solution.

Further - it was predicted there would be a big spike with warmer weather.  That hasn't happened.  I think there is less actual danger than there is fear.

You just answered your own question. Expedite an amendment to Third Safe Country that bars any applications for refugee status unless they are made at a legal border crossing (that is not with the US). Immediately stops the problem. You should not be able to claim asylum when arriving from the US, including those useless deserters who we've allowed to hide in Canada for years because they wanted a free education, not war when they joined the military.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 16, 2017, 19:39:38
If that's possible, I'd be in favour of that.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on April 16, 2017, 19:43:44
If that's possible, I'd be in favour of that.

 The article seriously points out the fact that our Government has done NOTHING to solve the problem; in fact not paying attention to it.  It is time, as I said already, for the Government to get off their *** and address this problem.  PuckChaser has provided one such solution.  Now the Government of Canada must get to work and make it so.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jollyjacktar on April 16, 2017, 20:54:20
Good luck with getting the present PM to do anything that jepoardizes selfie opportunities and looking pretty.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chief Engineer on April 16, 2017, 21:00:05
I don't buy that its that bad in the US for them to cross the border like that. Are there any numbers on how many have crossed in this manner?
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: George Wallace on April 16, 2017, 21:26:36
With the surge of millions into Europe, that still continues, I can see this as the same thing, but on a smaller scale.  Opportunists looking for the handouts that Western nations have through their Social Programs.  It would appear that the American Social Programs, Health and Dental Care, etc. are not as good as ours. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: YZT580 on April 17, 2017, 14:01:50
Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Chief Engineer on April 17, 2017, 14:05:54
Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.

Unfortunately that's not in accordance with Canada's new "Sunny Ways" and very uncanadian.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 17, 2017, 14:34:56
Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.

I don't think that's possible.  We need an agreement whereby the US takes them back.  Once they're on our side of the border, we can't send them back.  That's why we'd need to modify the safe third country agreement.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Jed on April 17, 2017, 14:39:16
I don't think that's possible.  We need an agreement whereby the US takes them back.  Once they're on our side of the border, we can't send them back.  That's why we'd need to modify the safe third country agreement.

Why? 
just do it. What is the harm in that? At least find out if the US Customs officials are cooperative.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 17, 2017, 15:58:35
Why? 
just do it. What is the harm in that? At least find out if the US Customs officials are cooperative.

If they're willing take them back, fine.  Somehow, I doubt it. 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on April 17, 2017, 16:19:36
If they're willing take them back, fine.  Somehow, I doubt it.

I'd have to agree with JMT here;  if they aren't stopping them from leaving/crossing, they are likely just as happy to see them go.  If they aren't US citizens I'd hazard a guess they have a snowballs chance in H-E double hockey sticks of getting back into the US once their 2nd foot crosses over.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 17, 2017, 16:28:08
I'd have to agree with JMT here;  if they aren't stopping them from leaving/crossing, they are likely just as happy to see them go.  If they aren't US citizens I'd hazard a guess they have a snowballs chance in H-E double hockey sticks of getting back into the US once their 2nd foot crosses over.

For the same reason, I feel that they'd be unwilling to amend the safe third country agreement.  The best option, IMO, is to withdraw from the safe third country agreement.  Let these would be asylum applicants apply through the normal channels at CBSA staffed border crossing points.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on April 17, 2017, 17:09:24
If we pull out, it adds a whole whack of issues to the US's border security problem. The reason they're not stopping people in rural Manitoba/Quebec is because a majority of the manpower is down south solving the masses of people trying to cross from Mexico/Cuba.

You can't just throw your arms up and pretend we're in this by ourselves. There's a lot of agreements we can leverage to get the US on border with amendments to Third Safe Country. The problem is, there's no political will/fortitude to do something about it, until one of those people crossing the border kills someone.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 17, 2017, 19:30:58
If we pull out, it adds a whole whack of issues to the US's border security problem. The reason they're not stopping people in rural Manitoba/Quebec is because a majority of the manpower is down south solving the masses of people trying to cross from Mexico/Cuba.

You can't just throw your arms up and pretend we're in this by ourselves. There's a lot of agreements we can leverage to get the US on border with amendments to Third Safe Country. The problem is, there's no political will/fortitude to do something about it, until one of those people crossing the border kills someone.

That's because the problem is minor at the moment.  Without US cooperation, we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment.  The US could solve this by A ) stopping them on their side, or, B ) agreeing to amend the safe third country agreement.  Whether they've been asked about that second piece - I have no idea.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: milnews.ca on April 17, 2017, 20:21:32
... It would appear that the American Social Programs, Health and Dental Care, etc. are not as good as ours.
If that was the case, why are we seeing what appears to be a surge?  Haven't our programs been different than theirs in the same general ways for a looooooong time now?  Why do you think we're seeing more of this now?
... we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment ...
The bit in yellow -- if the rules on the U.S. side allowed them to take them back AND the rules on the Canadian side allowed them to just turn them around without due process, this wouldn't be happening.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: PuckChaser on April 17, 2017, 20:29:08
That's because the problem is minor at the moment.  Without US cooperation, we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment.  The US could solve this by A ) stopping them on their side, or, B ) agreeing to amend the safe third country agreement.  Whether they've been asked about that second piece - I have no idea.
How do you know we don't have US cooperation? The current government has done nothing thus far, so I wouldn't expect the US to start wading into our domestic politics until our government leaders say there's a problem and demand change.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 17, 2017, 20:44:33
How do you know we don't have US cooperation? The current government has done nothing thus far, so I wouldn't expect the US to start wading into our domestic politics until our government leaders say there's a problem and demand change.

I didn't say that we didn't have US cooperation.  I said that only cooperation from the Americans can change the situation, and that I don't know if we have that or not.  I'm guessing not.  I'm guessing they're more than happy to be rid of the people who are coming here.  I don't know what you would propose that the current government do differently, quite frankly.  They are having the illegal migrants detained on entry.  That they then claim asylum, as they are legally allowed (they're in Canada, and have full protection of the Constitution - this isn't like at a border post) is where the problem comes from.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: YZT580 on April 17, 2017, 21:58:13
so declare that every point at which a person crosses the border is a de facto border crossing point and SEND THEM BACK!!!  Why should the people of Canada foot the legal, medical and social bill of someone who has already reached a safe haven in the States and wishes to change?  And the point is not without precedent.  Illegals who enter via air can be stopped on the bridge and ordered back onto the aircraft.  So why should a trail through a field be any different?  It still links foreign soil with Canadian just as the bridge links foreign soil, the aircraft with Canada (the terminal building). 
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Good2Golf on April 17, 2017, 22:24:19
I didn't say that we didn't have US cooperation.

Actually you did.

Without US cooperation, we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment.

If your phrase was meant to be conditional, you should have phrased it conditionally: "Without US cooperation, we would be doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment." Or, more precisely worded, "If we didn't have US cooperation, we would be doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment."

Your existing sentence had no such condition - its phraseology was merely a re-arranged "We are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment without US cooperation." 

Grammatically yours,

G2G
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on April 17, 2017, 22:25:54
so declare that every point at which a person crosses the border is a de facto border crossing point and SEND THEM BACK!!!  Why should the people of Canada foot the legal, medical and social bill of someone who has already reached a safe haven in the States and wishes to change?  And the point is not without precedent.  Illegals who enter via air can be stopped on the bridge and ordered back onto the aircraft.  So why should a trail through a field be any different?  It still links foreign soil with Canadian just as the bridge links foreign soil, the aircraft with Canada (the terminal building).

If they are illegal immigrants, etc in the US, once they *leave* the US will the US take them back?  I think not.  Can we "make" them?  Ya..there's a conversation I'd like to hear between the PM and POTUS.   :nod:
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 17, 2017, 22:57:39
Actually you did.

If your phrase was meant to be conditional, you should have phrased it conditionally: "Without US cooperation, we would be doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment." Or, more precisely worded, "If we didn't have US cooperation, we would be doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment."

Your existing sentence had no such condition - its phraseology was merely a re-arranged "We are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment without US cooperation." 

Grammatically yours,

G2G

This is what I said:

Without US cooperation, we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment.  The US could solve this by A ) stopping them on their side, or, B ) agreeing to amend the safe third country agreement.  Whether they've been asked about that second piece - I have no idea.

----

I should have worded it a bit differently, but the context of the rest of what I said was important to my meaning.  I wasn't accusing them of anything.  I don't know if we've asked the US about any of it, so they may be just waiting for an ask from us.  Somehow though, I doubt that this administration is in a hurry to keep those people or get them back.
Title: Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
Post by: jmt18325 on April 17, 2017, 22:58:43
so declare that every point at which a person crosses the border is a de facto border crossing point and SEND THEM BACK!!!

I'm thinking that would also require input from the US, being as it would impact the safe third country agreement in a material way.