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The Recruiting Office => The Recruiting Process => Topic started by: NAVRESSuppyTech on March 31, 2016, 18:01:05

Title: Force Test Average Times
Post by: NAVRESSuppyTech on March 31, 2016, 18:01:05
I am curious how well most people do on the Force Test.

What times did you guys achieve on the three that are timed, AKA the 80 meter sprint with going prone ever 10 meters, the Sand bag lift, and the loaded shuttle run.

I know most people find the new FORCE test easy, but still interesting to know how most people preform on each step of the test.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: BobSlob on March 31, 2016, 18:04:27
From the top of my head;

Shuttle/Up-Down: 39s
Sand Bag: 1m 20s
Loaded Shuttle: 3m (Admittedly I do walk this one, and don't sprint at all)
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: ArmyVern on March 31, 2016, 18:05:24
Well, I'm old and slow but I do pass it. 

I think you're looking for input from a younger crowd than I belong to.

Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Infanteer on March 31, 2016, 18:10:40
I put benchmarks for my guys to achieve.  Most could do it.

Shuttles in under 35 seconds
Sand Bag lifts in under a 1 min
Loaded shuttle in under 2 min, 30 seconds.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: mariomike on March 31, 2016, 18:13:33
I am curious how well most people do on the Force Test.

For future reference, perhaps "Force Test Average Times" will be merged with "Fitness for Operational Requirements of CF Employment (FORCE): New PT test stds"
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=106313.0
35 pages.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Terrier on March 31, 2016, 23:42:40
For future reference, perhaps "Force Test Average Times" will be merged with "Fitness for Operational Requirements of CF Employment (FORCE): New PT test stds"
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=106313.0
35 pages.

Or it could be left for times people get on the test. That would save looking through 35 pages of a generic thread. Possibly resulting in better search results as well. (In acknowledgement that I can sound sarcastic, this isn't meant that way.)
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Gizmo 421 on April 01, 2016, 08:57:55
Sand Bag Lift 1:35
20 Metre Rushes :41
Loaded Shuttle 3:33
Sand Bag Drag :21

Somewhat slow although I am 55 now, and still faster than some of the 30 somethings, at our unit if you match or beat the CO's times it will earn you some short days, an incentive that has been working well so far, I am nowhere near to earning any days, I can live with that.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: CombatMacgyver on April 01, 2016, 09:09:49
Sandbag: 51s
Shuttle: 2:31 (walking/running.  PSP told us we couldn't run when "loaded", I don't know why)
20m Rushes: 31s
Drag: 9s
32YOA

According to the psp calculator thing posted in another thread, that's in the top 0.1% (platinum) which I find utterly ridiculous.  I know lots of guys that beat my scores.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Lumber on April 01, 2016, 09:51:41
According to the psp calculator thing posted in another thread, that's in the top 0.1% (platinum) which I find utterly ridiculous.  I know lots of guys that beat my scores.

Not this guy....

I haven't done it since last May, but I know I'm nowhere near platinum. With the numbers I can remember and some educated guesses:

Sandbags 1:05
Rushes:34s
Shuttle: 3 mins?
Drag: 20s
29YO

And I'm firmly in the middle of Bronze.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Haggis on April 01, 2016, 13:36:34
When I last did it, at 54 YOA (didn't do it this year due to some work-related injuries).

Sandbags - 1:00
Rushes - 44 sec
Shuttles - 2:38 (walk loaded, jog empty)
Drag - 24 sec

The reasons you are not allowed to run the shuttles while loaded are to prevent injury and mimic the pace at which you would actually move defensive stores/ammo/rations/luggage (for the Air Force) for an extended period.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: krimynal on April 01, 2016, 13:40:57
haha I laughed at that luggage part ;) remember you can do it faster if you are air-force , usually they will put little wheels underneath the dolly to make it look more realistic for you :)
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: caocao on April 01, 2016, 14:36:28
The last one i did i got:

Sandbags - :55
Rushes - 35 sec
Shuttles - 2:53 (walk loaded, jog empty)
Drag - 13 sec

50 YOA
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: ArmyDoc on April 01, 2016, 18:14:05
I know most people find the new FORCE test easy, but still interesting to know how most people preform on each step of the test.
I suspect that what most people find easy in their 20's and 30's, is not as easy when they are in their 40's and 50's. Also, what is relatively easy for a 180 pound person is not going to be as easy for someone who weighs 100 pounds and is moving/lifting (e.g. Sandbags, Drag) a much larger proportion of their body weight.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: NAVRESSuppyTech on April 04, 2016, 23:27:10
Sorry what I meant was most people find it easier then the Expresstest not generally easy overall.

As for me

80 meter rush:42 seconds
Sand bag lift- 1 minute 25 seconds
400 loaded shuttle- 3 mins 11 seconds
Sand bag drag- 18 seconds
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Log Offr on April 06, 2016, 21:34:05
49 years old and without sweating (seriously, without having to raise my heart rate much at all, which believe me is much more a statement on how easy the test is than how fit I am),  and DEFINITELY not needing to shower after the test, I scored bronze. The level of output required of a damn near 50 year old man with a completely average level of fitness is about equivalent to rotating my tires, while sprinting into the kitchen for a new beer in between each tire, lol. 5'10", 180 lbs.  Frankly, for the last three years, given how much time we get to do each stage, my aim has been to not get hurt during the test, so I have been slow and deliberate in all my actions. But I still scored bronze. And I am a cubicle rat who walks for exercise, haven't jogged or hit the gym all year.  WTF? With the incentives, next year I will work my *** off just to see how fast I can go in the various stands, although I will still go slowly during the drag, so I don't trip up and fail on a technicality. So I guess in a sense the incentives will motivate me to work out a little harder over the next year, simply out of curiosity to see how high a score I could get with a bit of effort. I'm sure there are others who will try harder too, for various reasons, and the overall health of the CAF could (could) inch up a little bit due to the incentives.

Maybe they should offer free army.ca memberships if you get silver.

sandbag 1:27
carry 3:10
drag 16
shuttle 41
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Poacher434 on April 22, 2016, 09:15:56
Fast.

the test seems like more of a test on how well you can follow instruction considering it holds little physical value...
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Lumber on April 22, 2016, 10:34:02
Fast.

the test seems like more of a test on how well you can follow instruction considering it holds little physical value...

I disagree completely. These tests are design to provide a decent approximation of actual tasks/movements you can reasonably expected to perform in the course of your duties, and as such, they hold significant physical value. These are not physical fitness tests!. We are not measuring who is the fastest, strongest, fittest person in the forces. These are results-based tests, whose actions and minimum times are designed to determine whether or not you can perform the physical aspects of a career in the CAF.

Off the top of my head, I can think of examples where I performed actual military tasks that are pretty much identical to FORCE test activities.

1. Dragging an unconscious member who is full fire fighting equipment down the flats during a fire = Sand Bag Drag
2. Hauling compressed air diving tanks up and down from the dive locker to the upper decks - Intermittent Loaded/Un-Loaded Shuttle
3. Storing ship (if you're the one near the pallets or on the ladders) - Sand Bags
4. We don't ever run on ship, so we don't really have an equivalent to the 20m Rushes....

Now, since adding in the incentive levels, we can now measure both minimum capability as well as assess fitness level. We just ran our FORCE test and some fairly fit people pushed themselves really hard and still only attained silver.

Just for comparison:

28yo, Male, 5'7", 185lbs
Rushes: 33sec
Sand Bag Lift: 57 sec (this destroyed my quads and gave me trouble on the next two tests)
Intermittent Loaded/Unloaded shuttle: 2min 54 sec (our fastest of the day was 2:31, and I definitely could have done better. I was only "running" for the unloaded part and not "sprinting")
Sand-Bag Drag: 15 sec
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Poacher434 on April 22, 2016, 11:33:46
So our fitness standard should be based off of 4 tasks that a member may perform sometime in their career?

A fitness standard should be to evaluate a persons fitness level. Especially if it is a national level test. Just because a member can lift a sandbag up and down and run for 20m. Does that mean the person is now fit enough to perform tasks of an infanteer? Does this equate to pepper potting for km's, carrying 50 pounds of ffo and 50 pounds of a ruck. Digging a trench, carrying a support weapon?

Did the test equate to 4 tasks you performed on a ship? Sure why not, does it equate to the 1000+ other careers in the forces? Probably not.

If they want to hold a fitness standard for all members of the military, it should be based SOLELY on fitness levels, and avoid trying to relate things. Fitness is not rocket science, it's fitness
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: ArmyVern on April 22, 2016, 12:16:09
So our fitness standard should be based off of 4 tasks that a member may perform sometime in their career?

A fitness standard should be to evaluate a persons fitness level. Especially if it is a national level test. Just because a member can lift a sandbag up and down and run for 20m. Does that mean the person is now fit enough to perform tasks of an infanteer? Does this equate to pepper potting for km's, carrying 50 pounds of ffo and 50 pounds of a ruck. Digging a trench, carrying a support weapon?

Did the test equate to 4 tasks you performed on a ship? Sure why not, does it equate to the 1000+ other careers in the forces? Probably not.

If they want to hold a fitness standard for all members of the military, it should be based SOLELY on fitness levels, and avoid trying to relate things. Fitness is not rocket science, it's fitness

Why the heck should the vittler or the pilot have to prove himself fit enough to perform the tasks of an Infanteer?  He isn't one.  The only CAF members who are Infanteers --- are Infanteers.

The FORCE test is the measure of the minimum standard required to perform the minimal common tasks of the entire CAF (90% of whom are not Infanteers), not the Infantry.   

What you are talking about are Trade Fitness Standards etc.  If the FORCE isn't good enough for the Infantry, then get out there and devise a damn test FOR the Infantry.  If the fire fighters can do so, surely to hell they can too and quit their whining about non-Infanteers not living up to Infanteer standards.  Fack, even the Cdn Army has managed to do so for it's environment.  Get friggin' on with it.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Lumber on April 22, 2016, 12:28:17
So our fitness standard should be based off of 4 tasks that a member may perform sometime in their career?

A fitness standard should be to evaluate a persons fitness level. Especially if it is a national level test. Just because a member can lift a sandbag up and down and run for 20m. Does that mean the person is now fit enough to perform tasks of an infanteer? Does this equate to pepper potting for km's, carrying 50 pounds of ffo and 50 pounds of a ruck. Digging a trench, carrying a support weapon?

Did the test equate to 4 tasks you performed on a ship? Sure why not, does it equate to the 1000+ other careers in the forces? Probably not.

If they want to hold a fitness standard for all members of the military, it should be based SOLELY on fitness levels, and avoid trying to relate things. Fitness is not rocket science, it's fitness

You're obviously missing the point. Infantry is not the only trade in this Queen's military, and who else besides the infantry is pepper potting?

Besides, like I said, this is not a fitness test (at least not in the way you're reading it). It's not meant to evaluate your maximum potential, or to accurately measure your maximum physical exertion level. The FORCE test is a test designed to evaluate whether or not your are physically capable of performing a core set of physical tasks. A member's ability to do any of the other tasks, such as pepper potting, hammering in ground-spikes for concertina wire, digging a trench, etc. can be left to the individual schools to determine whether or not their students are capable of performing. 90% of the trades in the military are never going to have their people ruck-marching, pepper potting, running 10km, digging trenches, or carrying support weapons. So why would we, as a minimum entry/maintenance standard, ask them to prove that they can do those tasks?

If you want to join/stay in the CAF, pass the FORCE test. If you want to make it as a MARS Officer/RMS Clerk/AVN Tech; pass the FORCE test. If you want to make it as an Infanteer; Pass the FORCE test, and demonstrate during your trades training that you are physically capable of doing all the physically demanding tasks that you listed above.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: dapaterson on April 22, 2016, 12:50:39
Poacher: There's a long thread discussing the "why" of FORCE; this one is to present results.  If you want to vent and display your ignorance of what FORCE and is not (and does and does not measure), that thread would be a better fit.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Poacher434 on April 22, 2016, 14:35:51
Gentleman lets take a deep breath and relax.

Lets revert back to soldier first. There is a reason why every Army trade does an SQ or BMQ-L or what ever the heck it is called. They all learn section attacks.

I am not using infantry as the end all be all, I am just using it as the best example I can give as that is the trade I know the best.

My stance stands, as a SOLDIER within the CAF, physical fitness should be important, I am just curious as to why the bar is set so astronomically low. Is it simply just a way to weed out those who are injured? Is it a stepping stone on the assumption that members who struggle will take it amongst themselves to improve their own level? Maybe... will those members do so I think we can all agree that's a 50/50.

All I am trying to say is in my personal opinion, I think the force test is too easy, I wasn't a big fan of the express test either but I think it was a better system.

Now lets all do some tactical breathing and calm down on the whole thing before some people start giving themselves a heart attack
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: mariomike on April 22, 2016, 14:40:19
This thread is for times.

Perhaps the discussion can be moved to,

Fitness for Operational Requirements of CF Employment (FORCE): New PT test stds 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,106313.850.html
35 pages.


Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: daftandbarmy on April 22, 2016, 15:12:15
I disagree completely. These tests are design to provide a decent approximation of actual tasks/movements you can reasonably expected to perform in the course of your duties, and as such, they hold significant physical value. These are not physical fitness tests!. We are not measuring who is the fastest, strongest, fittest person in the forces. These are results-based tests, whose actions and minimum times are designed to determine whether or not you can perform the physical aspects of a career in the CAF.

Off the top of my head, I can think of examples where I performed actual military tasks that are pretty much identical to FORCE test activities.

1. Dragging an unconscious member who is full fire fighting equipment down the flats during a fire = Sand Bag Drag
2. Hauling compressed air diving tanks up and down from the dive locker to the upper decks - Intermittent Loaded/Un-Loaded Shuttle
3. Storing ship (if you're the one near the pallets or on the ladders) - Sand Bags
4. We don't ever run on ship, so we don't really have an equivalent to the 20m Rushes....

Now, since adding in the incentive levels, we can now measure both minimum capability as well as assess fitness level. We just ran our FORCE test and some fairly fit people pushed themselves really hard and still only attained silver.

Just for comparison:

28yo, Male, 5'7", 185lbs
Rushes: 33sec
Sand Bag Lift: 57 sec (this destroyed my quads and gave me trouble on the next two tests)
Intermittent Loaded/Unloaded shuttle: 2min 54 sec (our fastest of the day was 2:31, and I definitely could have done better. I was only "running" for the unloaded part and not "sprinting")
Sand-Bag Drag: 15 sec

They left out an important one:

Killing someone with a bayonet, at night, while running uphill in the rain loaded with full fighting order following a grueling approach march on no sleep and less food to restore the front following the first gas attack in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kitcheners%27_Wood

But hey, we won't have to do any of that kind of stuff in the future, will we?
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: ArmedAndUseless on April 30, 2016, 19:45:56
17 year old male. I admit that there was more I could have done to prepare, but I'm just relived I passed (When I went to the armoury to hand in my transcripts and whatnot people didn't hide their eyeing me up, chuckles, etc. I seriously questioned whether I could get through the process or not). I'm sure that my times for the next FORCE test will improve. Here are my times in order of completion:

Sand Bag Lift: 1:20
Loaded Shuttle: 3:15
20 Metre Rushes: 0:40
Sand Bag Drag: 0:30
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: cld617 on April 30, 2016, 21:57:08
Late 20's male

Rush 0:30
Sandbag lift 0:45
Loaded shuttle 2:33
Drag 0:10

I'm actually blown away how fast people are completing the shuttle in my age category. I'd need to knock 20+ seconds off my time to be as competitive in that as I am in the others. Some people doing some creative walking in between unloaded phases.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Arty39 on May 01, 2016, 11:09:44
Shuttle Run: 30 seconds
Sandbag Lift: 47 seconds
Sandbag Carry: 2:27
Sandbag Drag: 9 seconds

Late 20's male, fitness level gold.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: caocao on May 02, 2016, 17:42:40
Shuttle Run: 34 seconds
Sandbag Lift: 1:03 seconds
Sandbag Carry: 2:59
Sandbag Drag: 15 seconds

Male, 50 YOA - 15 pets from Gold Level
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: Kerosen on April 13, 2017, 15:39:13
49 years old and without sweating

Maybe they should offer free army.ca memberships if you get silver.

sandbag 1:27
carry 3:10
drag 16
shuttle 41

At 46 i did

sandbag 1:01
carry 3:19
drag 19
shuttle 42
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: LunchMeat on April 13, 2017, 16:14:08
Late 20's male

Rush 0:30
Sandbag lift 0:45
Loaded shuttle 2:33
Drag 0:10

I'm actually blown away how fast people are completing the shuttle in my age category. I'd need to knock 20+ seconds off my time to be as competitive in that as I am in the others. Some people doing some creative walking in between unloaded phases.

You're allowed to run for the unloaded shuttle, but walk only during the loaded shuttle. Unless they've gone and changed it since my last one.
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: cld617 on April 13, 2017, 19:04:28
You're allowed to run for the unloaded shuttle, but walk only during the loaded shuttle. Unless they've gone and changed it since my last one.

My point was, to attain a score in that event that is as competitive as my other ones were I'd have to knock off 20-25 seconds from an already quick run, and to take the record I'd have to do a sub 1min50sec loaded shuttle. It simply isn't attainable without the people taking scores from allowing some creative "walking".
Title: Re: Force Test Average Times
Post by: OttCap on April 13, 2017, 20:05:41
I am curious how well most people do on the Force Test.

What times did you guys achieve on the three that are timed, AKA the 80 meter sprint with going prone ever 10 meters, the Sand bag lift, and the loaded shuttle run.

I know most people find the new FORCE test easy, but still interesting to know how most people preform on each step of the test.

Just did it for the first time at BMQ a few weeks ago so I don't remember all my times.

Rush 0:40ish
Sandbag lift 1:08
Loaded shuttle 2:30
Drag 0:15

Late 20's male, didn't even crack bronze, although to be honest I wasn't entirely sure what I was doing either. We have another test in a couple of weeks, I'm sure I'll be bronze or higher now that I know what I'm doing.