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The Mess => Foreign Militaries => US Military => Topic started by: mrmostlikely on June 18, 2018, 15:01:21

Title: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: mrmostlikely on June 18, 2018, 15:01:21
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-directs-creation-space-force-sixth-branch-military/story?id=55978674

Surprisingly not an Onion headline  :facepalm:
Title: Trump order creation of US Space Force as (independent?) sixth armed service
Post by: MarkOttawa on June 18, 2018, 15:12:34
House of Representatives last year had voted for "Space Corps" within Department of Air Force (rather like USMC within Deptartment of Navy) but Senate did not go along.  Now president  seems to go whole hog, apparently against wish of Pentagon.  But will it actually be independent service?  NORAD and NATO implications?

Quote
Trump orders creation of independent space force

President Donald Trump on Monday {June 18] signed an executive order directing the Pentagon to create a new ”Space Force,” a move that could radically transform the U.S. military by pulling space functions variously owned by the Air Force, Navy and other military branches into a single independent service.

“I am hereby directing the Department of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a Space Force as the sixth branch of the armed forces,” Trump said during a meeting of the National Space Council.

“That’s a big statement. We are going to have the Air Force and we are going to have the Space Force. Separate but equal. It is going to be something. So important,” Trump added. “General Dunford, if you would carry out that assignment out I would be very greatly honored.”

Dunford responded in the affirmative, telling Trump, “We got you.”

According to a White House pool report, the president signed the executive order establishing the Space Force at about 12:36 p.m. EST.

Trump’s support for creating a separate branch for space is a break from his own adminsitration’s stance last year, as well as that of Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis.

“At a time when we are trying to integrate the Department’s joint warfighting functions, I do not wish to add a separate service that would likely present a narrower and even parochial approach to space operations vice an integrated one we’re constructing under our current approach,” Mattis wrote in a 2017 letter to members of Congress.

But in recent months, Trump has signaled he was intrigued by the idea of a stand alone space force, saying in a May 1 speech that “We’re actually thinking of a sixth” military branch for space.

Trump’s announcement tracks with the Pentagon’s interim report on whether to establish an independent space corps, which Deputy Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan said in April was on track to be wrapped up on June 1. The final report, which would be sent to Congress, is due in August.

The Pentagon and Air Force did not respond immediately to a request for comment.

Although Trump signed an executive order to create an independent space force, it’s unclear whether he will need Congress onboard in order to make the new service a reality [emphasis added].

Also unclear is whether this new space force will rest under the Department of the Air Force — much like the Marine Corps is a component of the Department of the Navy — or whether a new “Department of the Space Force” will also be created [emphasis added].

Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala., the head of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, tweeted out his support for Trump’s order. Rogers had previously proposed a separate space service as part of Congress’ annual defense policy bill.
https://www.defensenews.com/space/2018/06/18/trump-orders-creation-of-independent-space-force/

From Feb. 2018:

Quote
Chairman Rogers: space corps needed more than ever, Air Force ‘in denial’

Rogers: While China and Russia continue to challenge the United States in space, the Air Force appears to be more interested in fighting Congress rather than dealing with the enemy.

The chairman and ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee’s strategic forces subcommittee ripped U.S. Air Force leaders for not taking threats in space seriously and for their continued resistance to reform.

Speaking on Wednesday at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, Rep. Mike Rogers and the subcommittee’s top Democrat Rep. Jim Cooper presented a united front, criticizing the Air Force for stalling legislative changes that Congress passed last year to reorganize military space programs and accelerate the development of next-generation technologies...

Both Rogers and Cooper sounded angrier and more frustrated with the Air Force than they were even a few months ago when they inserted language in the 2018 National Defense Authorization Act to create a separate space corps within the Air Force...

The space corps provision in the 2018 NDAA passed the House but didn’t have enough votes in the Senate [emphasis added]. The law still directs the Defense Department to hire an independent think tank to study the issue...
http://spacenews.com/chairman-rogers-space-corps-needed-more-than-ever-air-force-in-denial/

Mark
Ottawa
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Good2Golf on June 18, 2018, 15:24:59
SPACEFORHQ's Guidon will no doubt have the "Roswell, 1947" battle honor?  ;D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: AirDet on June 18, 2018, 15:46:07
 :facepalm: What kind of frackery is this?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Eye In The Sky on June 18, 2018, 16:20:56
 ???

USSTRATCOM/JFCC Space is the big DoD organization IIRC, but many other US FedGov players are equal or greater players in the holistic view of the National Space Program.

Will "Space Command" suck in everything that exits across the board?  NRO, NASA, NOAA, and the list goes on...

Space dominance from the US means "space weapons" IMO...wasn't the US one of the big names during the creation and adoption etc of the OST? 

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/introouterspacetreaty.html

Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Altair on June 18, 2018, 16:32:27
???

USSTRATCOM/JFCC Space is the big DoD organization IIRC, but many other US FedGov players are equal or greater players in the holistic view of the National Space Program.

Will "Space Command" suck in everything that exits across the board?  NRO, NASA, NOAA, and the list goes on...

Space dominance from the US means "space weapons" IMO...wasn't the US one of the big names during the creation and adoption etc of the OST? 

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/introouterspacetreaty.html
Nothing signed before 2016 matters anymore.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Eye In The Sky on June 18, 2018, 17:56:25
So...does this mean Officers who enter the new command will start off as....Space Cadets??
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: mrmostlikely on June 18, 2018, 18:00:17
Space Cadets

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Brihard on June 18, 2018, 19:59:51
The timing of this is questionable in its political convenience, but I'll leave that aside. Objectively, from those more in the know, is this an idea with real merits whose time has come?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: daftandbarmy on June 18, 2018, 20:27:16
Well, if you can't take the moral high ground....
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Ostrozac on June 18, 2018, 20:41:05
The timing of this is questionable in its political convenience, but I'll leave that aside. Objectively, from those more in the know, is this an idea with real merits whose time has come?

There has been serious talk about re-establishing US Space Command as a separate Joint Command -- Space Command was amalgamated with Strategic Air Command back in the day to form what is now Strategic Command, and there are some who think that was a mistake. But the idea of creating a sixth uniformed armed service seems to be coming out of left field.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: daftandbarmy on June 18, 2018, 20:46:45
There has been serious talk about re-establishing US Space Command as a separate Joint Command -- Space Command was amalgamated with Strategic Air Command back in the day to form what is now Strategic Command, and there are some who think that was a mistake. But the idea of creating a sixth uniformed armed service seems to be coming out of left field.

I'm just happy that someone has p*ssed off the Air Force ;)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on June 18, 2018, 21:01:26
Congress has to approve this because Congress needs to fund it.This will siphon money from the Navy and Air Force unless the total budget is increased.Manpower wise I don't see it rivaling the Marines or Army.But it could take over NORAD and other USAF agencies.An idea that is not necessary.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 18, 2018, 21:09:04
I'm totally guessing here but the Army, Navy and Marines all have their own aircraft right? What's the main use of the US Airforce, strategic bombers or something?

Why not roll the USAF into the, uhh, USSF (or maybe USSC) and have them worry about spacey things while other elements handle their respective air assets?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Hamish Seggie on June 18, 2018, 21:17:01
So...does this mean Officers who enter the new command will start off as....Space Cadets??

And will their troops be Starship Troopers?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: cavalryman on June 18, 2018, 21:40:40
And will their troops be Starship Troopers?
You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKtJobLOVYQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKtJobLOVYQ)
 :rofl:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Pieman on June 18, 2018, 21:44:32
I'm predicting one of the capabilities will be a small team of about 6 men that can be launched by SpaceX via rocket and a DragonX type of capsule to anywhere on earth in 60 minutes.


Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FJAG on June 18, 2018, 22:17:54
You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKtJobLOVYQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKtJobLOVYQ)
 :rofl:

This is more likely what Trump had in mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFBrPzr2D1U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFBrPzr2D1U)  ;D

 [cheers]
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: MarkOttawa on June 18, 2018, 22:32:19
Jarnhamar:

Quote
I'm totally guessing here but the Army, Navy and Marines all have their own aircraft right? What's the main use of the US Airforce, strategic bombers or something?...

In fact US Army has been allowed, as result of USAF objections, only very limited fixed-wing capabilities:
 
Quote
... in 1948, the top officers of the Army, [newly independent] Air Force, and Navy took a trip to Key West, Flordia — but this was no spring break. The three services were there to hash out and define the responsibilities of each branch. The result was a "treaty" of sorts that became known as the Key West Agreement.

The is how the agreement broke things down: The Air Force would handle combat in the air and air transport but also promised to provide close-air support for the Army. The Navy and Marine Corps were to handle naval combat – including amphibious assault. The Army was tasked with fighting on land. What was interesting was that the Army was also allowed "such aviation and water transport" that was organic to providing support to combat units...
https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/this-was-the-army-and-air-force-treaty-on-aircraft

More:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/fixed-wing-aircraft-army-recon
http://ciceromagazine.com/features/the-armys-fixed-wing-future/

Hence the army has concentrated on helicopters. USAF, for its part, has full range of aircraft, including tactical fighters, trainers, transports, tankers, ISR/EW planes, etc., etc., etc.

Mark
Ottawa
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Hamish Seggie on June 18, 2018, 23:27:17
This is more likely what Trump had in mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFBrPzr2D1U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFBrPzr2D1U)  ;D

 [cheers]

Do you want to know more?

How quickly this spiralled....😉
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: mrmostlikely on June 18, 2018, 23:34:48
This is more likely what Trump had in mind

He seems to get so many of his ideas from what he sees on television, anyone check the TV guide for last night, make sure this movie wasn't on?  :rofl:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Fishbone Jones on June 19, 2018, 02:40:14
 
 [:D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Inspir on June 19, 2018, 04:14:35
(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F615%2F323%2F027.jpg&hash=0e336dc79a9780baed831e8c134356c0)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FJAG on June 19, 2018, 13:00:57
Jarnhamar:

In fact US Army has been allowed, as result of USAF objections, only very limited fixed-wing capabilities:
 
More:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/fixed-wing-aircraft-army-recon
http://ciceromagazine.com/features/the-armys-fixed-wing-future/

Hence the army has concentrated on helicopters. USAF, for its part, has full range of aircraft, including tactical fighters, trainers, transports, tankers, ISR/EW planes, etc., etc., etc.

Mark
Ottawa

The Key West agreement also created no end of trouble for the Army as helicopters became more viable and the potential for armed helicopters grew during the sixties. Similar issues existed with strategic nuclear forces as the Navy developed nuclear missile carrying submarines.

An interesting summary of the issue together with the "unification" of the US Armed Services can be found here:

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Documents/2008/November%202008/1108roles.pdf (http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Documents/2008/November%202008/1108roles.pdf)

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Ping Monkey on June 19, 2018, 13:10:45

Can't wait to see the first operators awarded their qualification badges.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tfDtP9AeL._UX466_.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: mrmostlikely on June 19, 2018, 13:22:38
My concern is, how far along are the Death Star-esque plans?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: expwor on June 19, 2018, 14:31:55
Wonder if Canada has surplus SMG's we could sell to Space Command so they can have blasters ;D

Tom
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: AirDet on June 19, 2018, 14:56:12
So...does this mean Officers who enter the new command will start off as....Space Cadets??

Aren't all officers already?  :whistle:

My apologies to those of you who have had your Spinal cord surgically removed.... I mean current and past officers.  ;D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: MarkOttawa on June 19, 2018, 16:35:16
Who in the service will be the Space Cowboys?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwoiy-Fwm0E

Mark
Ottawa
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on June 19, 2018, 18:29:52
The US flag has been planted on the moon.What better place to build that first base ? Gotta guard the giant lasers and railguns.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Brihard on June 19, 2018, 18:38:01
I want to know more.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 19, 2018, 18:38:29
Would it be smarter to put an instillation on the moon first due to the proximity to Earth or go big and just set up shop on Mars?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on June 19, 2018, 18:46:28
NASA claims to have a rocket to get a spacecraft to Mars in 6 weeks.

http://www.ispacea.com/2018/02/nasas-new-vasimr-plasma-engine-could.html
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Brihard on June 19, 2018, 19:27:37
Would it be smarter to put an instillation on the moon first due to the proximity to Earth or go big and just set up shop on Mars?

Logistics, logistics, logistics. One of the biggest barriers to interplanetary travel is launching enough fuel off of earth to propel something the rest of the way. If infrastructure can be established off-Earth that would allow for fuel to be produced without the need to lift it off the planet’s surface, that would be huge. I could envision something being developed to produce fuel on the moon from extracted materials, and to fuel a ship assembled in Earth orbit to then push out farther.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Remius on June 19, 2018, 19:34:19
Logistics, logistics, logistics. One of the biggest barriers to interplanetary travel is launching enough fuel off of earth to propel something the rest of the way. If infrastructure can be established off-Earth that would allow for fuel to be produced without the need to lift it off the planet’s surface, that would be huge. I could envision something being developed to produce fuel on the moon from extracted materials, and to fuel a ship assembled in Earth orbit to then push out farther.

Time to bring some freedom to the moon.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Brihard on June 19, 2018, 21:22:29
Time to bring some freedom to the moon.

Fuel on the moon? Hells yeah. We're gonna freedom the crap out of it with Harleys and Wal Mart and we'll get Lockheed Martin to open a fast food division.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Navy_Pete on June 19, 2018, 21:35:34
My mind went right to the deeper reaches of nerdom...

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/5/53/UltramarinesWarrior2.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20130918083105)

Space Marines?  Really?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Journeyman on June 19, 2018, 21:54:10
….or go big and just set up shop on Mars?
Based on Matt Damon growing potatoes in "The Martian (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3659388/)," some legal precedent of 'homesteading through cultivation' could establish a claim for either Prince Edward Island or Ireland.   :dunno:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Good2Golf on June 20, 2018, 10:06:30
Time to bring some freedom to the moon.

But NOT baked beans (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKDiPp2aCQk)!
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Hamish Seggie on June 20, 2018, 14:46:18
Time to bring some freedom to the moon.

Will there be big nasty bugs in the moon for space infantry to kill? 😈
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Spencer100 on June 20, 2018, 17:08:58
Colonial Space Marines is what is required here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ5J8ZiS2f8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ5J8ZiS2f8)

Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: daftandbarmy on June 20, 2018, 18:10:23
Colonial Space Marines is what is required here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ5J8ZiS2f8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ5J8ZiS2f8)

I like how they point their space rifle muzzles at the deck on the space Landing Craft, as if they're getting into a helicopter.

It must be an infantry thing, but you'd be better off putting the muzzle in your mouth 'cause if you have an ND in a space ship, you'd probably rather go that way than via explosive decompression :)

Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Good2Golf on June 20, 2018, 18:20:31
I like how they point their space rifle muzzles at the deck on the space Landing Craft, as if they're getting into a helicopter.

It must be an infantry thing, but you'd be better off putting the muzzle in your mouth 'cause if you have an ND in a space ship, you'd probably rather go that way than via explosive decompression :)

They're in full pressure suits...no effect on them from an ND...unless it hits the reactor core, of course. :nod:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 20, 2018, 18:33:45
I like how they point their space rifle muzzles at the deck on the space Landing Craft, as if they're getting into a helicopter.

It must be an infantry thing, but you'd be better off putting the muzzle in your mouth 'cause if you have an ND in a space ship, you'd probably rather go that way than via explosive decompression :)


The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer states if you get sucked out into space you must hold your breath and make swimming motions back towards your ship.

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/253566031534_/The-Imperial-Infantrymans-Uplifting-Primer-Damocles-Gulf-Edition.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Eye In The Sky on June 20, 2018, 20:22:31
Had to happen sooner or later...
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on June 20, 2018, 23:31:57
Gotta have Space Marines. :nod:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: daftandbarmy on June 21, 2018, 01:37:30
Gotta have Space Marines. :nod:

Why are the Marines hogging the limelight in Space too? Oh...

"My dear Congressman McDonough:

"I read with a lot of interest your letter in regard to the Marine Corps. For your information the Marine Corps is the Navy's police force and as long as I am President that is what it will remain. They have a propaganda machine that is almost equal to Stalin's." Harry S. Truman

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=13607
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Hamish Seggie on June 21, 2018, 01:56:18
Gotta have Space Marines. :nod:

Because there are big nasty Aliens out there. And bugs. And Predators.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FSTO on June 21, 2018, 07:35:22
Why are the Marines hogging the limelight in Space too? Oh...

"My dear Congressman McDonough:

"I read with a lot of interest your letter in regard to the Marine Corps. For your information the Marine Corps is the Navy's police force and as long as I am President that is what it will remain. They have a propaganda machine that is almost equal to Stalin's." Harry S. Truman

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=13607

*"The Soviets are our adversary. Our enemy is the Navy."

— Curtis LeMay, General, US Air Force
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Colin P on June 21, 2018, 11:52:57
The memes this announcement has inspired are so fricking good, I love the ones about the first VA claims.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 21, 2018, 12:35:17
Space Force recruiting video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRMUYpH7bQk


Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FSTO on June 21, 2018, 13:10:13
(https://images-cdn.9gag.com/images/thumbnail-facebook/43616366_1529377770.9048_EdUSE9_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Thucydides on June 21, 2018, 13:12:43
"I always get the shakes before a drop...."

Heinlein wrote the doctrine back in 1959.

I might be a little less enthusiastic if the US Space Force starts building space battleships like the "Micheal" from "Footfall (https://www.amazon.com/Footfall-Larry-Niven/dp/0345323440)", however. Being anywhere near the launch site will be somewhat....alarming.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Fishbone Jones on June 21, 2018, 16:23:16
Even with Reg vs Reserve.  ;D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Spencer100 on June 21, 2018, 18:32:27
Asteriod Defense!

Someone is taking this to the next level

https://www.space.com/40949-trump-space-force-asteroid-defense.html (https://www.space.com/40949-trump-space-force-asteroid-defense.html)


Why is it I just see in my head a little triangle jeting around shooting electronic blobs?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Spencer100 on June 21, 2018, 18:36:03
Got it!    :rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSupJ5r2zo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSupJ5r2zo)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: rmc_wannabe on June 22, 2018, 09:23:06
Saw this on Reddit. Outstanding.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Hamish Seggie on June 22, 2018, 10:00:51
Saw this on Reddit. Outstanding.

Well done to the soldier who did this.

I agree with his “only good bug is a dead bug” except for bees which are ok .....
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Blackadder1916 on June 22, 2018, 14:13:24
A microphone, a TV camera, a crowd and the unfettered imagination of a [insert own adjective here] president makes for a target rich environment for meme makers everywhere.  Far be it for me to talk about what some of the adults are saying when it would be much more enjoyable to join in the (oh so deserved) ridicule of Mr. Trump's announcement.  And yes, there was legitimate direction from the White House about space that appears to be well conceived, timely and a necessary step to the stars (sorry, that last phrase was cheesy).  Now, if someone would just wrestle the microphone from the president, maybe he wouldn't come across as a buffoon.

I was actually looking for some witty memes to join in the fun when I came across this from USNI which seemed a well reasoned comment about "Space Force".

https://news.usni.org/2018/06/18/34434
Quote
Proposed Space Force Would Pull Expertise From All Service Branches

By: Ben Werner   June 18, 2018 5:57 PM

The White House’s proposed military Space Force would likely rely heavily on existing personnel from inside the Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force and Army, plus a host of other intelligence agencies, experts told USNI News on Monday.

The Space Force was announced by President Trump on Monday. Trump’s directive doesn’t provide mission specifics, but the language suggests the Space Force would be charged with protecting both commercial and government assets in space.

“As space becomes increasingly contested, the demand for the Department of Defense to focus on protecting U.S. space assets and interests also increases. At the same time, the rapid commercialization of space requires a traffic management framework that protects U.S. interests and considers the private sector’s needs,” the directive reads.

But before the proposed sixth branch of the military is formed, Congress needs to approve legislation and the Department of Defense would have to iron out the fine details, according to a Monday afternoon statement from Pentagon spokeswoman Dana White.

“We understand the President’s guidance,” she said. “Our policy board will begin working on this issue, which has implications for intelligence operations for the Air Force, Army, Marines and Navy. Working with Congress, this will be a deliberate process with a great deal of input from multiple stakeholders.”

The Pentagon also has to do the homework of creating Space Force theory, doctrine and strategy, retired Air Force Lt. Gen. David Deptula, dean of the Mitchell Institute of Aerospace Power Studies, told USNI News on Monday.

“Creation of an independent Space Force may be the future, but right now it’s premature,” Deptula said.

The last time an independent service branch was created was when the Air Force was split off from the Army after World War II in 1947. By the time the Air Force was created, its leadership had spent two decades between WWI and WWII developing an air power strategy and new technology. During WWII, the then-Army Air Corps continued to refine and implement strategy and technology.

Today with space, developing military strategy hasn’t hasn’t happened to the same degree, Deptula said. As for the technology required for a Space Force to be effective, it’s still very much in the developmental phase.

“I’m all for missile defense using directed energy weapons in space to take out ballistic missiles,” Deptula said. “It’s a great idea, but we’re not there yet.”

Military planners likely have some time to develop the Space Force theory, doctrine, and strategy, since Congress doesn’t appear close to approving the branch, Bryan Clark, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, told USNI News.

“To really create a Space Force you need legislation, and the legislation appears stalled,” Clark said.

At the pace Congress operates, Clark said it’s unlikely that anything more than a broad proposal could be approved this year, and that might be a stretch. At best, he said the soonest legislation could be approved creating the new branch would be in 2019.

If passed, Congress would likely leave the organizational details for the Pentagon to iron out. Maybe some new flag officer billets would be created by legislation, but their job descriptions would probably be developed at the Pentagon. Even determining the rank structure — a Navy/Coast Guard model using admirals, or an Army/Air Force model using generals — would come from the Pentagon, Clark said.

The process used by the Department of Defense to establish U.S. Cyber Command provides a possible model, Clark said. Each service branch has cyber experts, and they were pulled together to form the new command. A new Space Force would likely do something similar, pulling in personnel from jobs with an existing space focus.

“Appropriators [in Congress] would decide how much money, and the Department of Defense would decide what duties would be moved to Space Force,” Clark said.

Deptula thinks the Space Force will be created in the future, but he is not sure the Congress has the drive to create the force.

“We can’t even recapitalize the geriatric forces we have inside the Air Force, so where is this extra money going to come from?” Deptula said.

"The language suggests . . ."?  What language was there other than what seemed an off the cuff announcement during a rally about creating another service?  Maybe there's something official (other than presidential babbling and tweets) from the White House.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-achieving-safe-secure-future-space/
Quote
President Donald J. Trump is Achieving a Safe and Secure Future in Space

Infrastructure & Technology   Issued on: June 18, 2018


“This is a giant step toward inspiring future generations and toward reclaiming America’s proud destiny in space.”

President Donald J. Trump

FURTHER SPACE DEVELOPMENT: President Donald J. Trump signed Space Policy Directive – 3 directing the United States to lead the management of traffic and mitigate the effects of debris in space.

•Space Policy Directive – 3 provides guidelines and direction to ensure that the United States is a leader in providing a safe and secure environment as commercial and civil space traffic increases.
 •As space becomes increasingly contested, the demand for the Department of Defense to focus on protecting U.S. space assets and interests also increases.
 •At the same time, the rapid commercialization of space requires a traffic management framework that protects U.S. interests and considers the private sector’s needs.

•The new Directive seeks to reduce the growing threat of orbital debris to the common interest of all nations.
 •The Directive articulates the policy of the United States to pursue and utilize both Government and commercial sector technologies to track and monitor space debris.
 •The Directive requires updates to the U.S. Orbital Debris Mitigation Standard Practices and new guidelines for satellite design and operation.

•The new Directive sets guidelines for the United States to manage space traffic more effectively by spearheading new data sharing initiatives.
 •The United States should continue to provide basic space situational awareness data and basic space traffic management services free of direct user fees.
 •The Department of Commerce will make space safety data and services available to the public, while the Department of Defense maintains the authoritative catalogue of space objects.

•The United States will maintain and expand its leadership in space by increasing its capabilities and developing standards and best practices. This effort will:
 •Improve space situational awareness data standards and information sharing;
 •Leverage U.S. standards and best practices to shape international norms; and
 •Streamline processes and reduce regulatory burdens that inhibit commercial growth, enabling the U.S. commercial sector to lead the world in space.

A RENEWED VIGOR FOR SPACE: The new Space Policy Directive builds on the President’s efforts to reinstate the United States leadership role in space.
•On May 24, 2018, the President signed Space Policy Directive – 2 to reform United States commercial space regulatory framework, seeking to ensure our place as a leader in space commerce.
•On March 23, 2018, President Trump unveiled a National Space Strategy that laid out an approach to ensuring that the United States is strong and competitive in the space environment.
•On December 11, 2017, the President signed Space Policy Directive – 1, instructing NASA to return United States astronauts to the Moon, followed by human missions to Mars.
•On June 30 2017, President Trump signed an Executive Order reviving the National Space Council for the first time in 24 years.

Space Policy Directive - 3?  That is a much longer and more detailed document.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/space-policy-directive-3-national-space-traffic-management-policy/

Somewhere between President Trump (hopefully) being briefed and signing off on this policy directive that obviously is the result of much intensive, detailed and knowledgeable staff work and showing up for his routine of a self-adulation rally, his takeaway is "Starship Troopers".   :not-again:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 22, 2018, 14:21:32
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2341/9769/products/WebMattisSpaceMarineFrontClose_large.jpg?v=1521824440)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Remius on June 22, 2018, 15:36:56
They could just add this to the PRES mission tasks.

Direct fire
Mortars
Light Urban Search and rescue
IA
Space Force DRC (See IA for more details)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on June 23, 2018, 00:48:48
https://www.stripes.com/news/p-t-in-space-online-jokes-target-space-force-1.534183
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: daftandbarmy on June 24, 2018, 10:43:07
They could just add this to the PRES mission tasks.

Direct fire
Mortars
Light Urban Search and rescue
IA
Space Force DRC (See IA for more details)

And we'd have about as much success achieving the Space Task as the rest of them, unless Space needs a few good parades :)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on June 24, 2018, 11:15:04
Congress is starting to push back against the idea.Last year they killed the idea of USAF Space Corps.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FJAG on June 24, 2018, 14:01:39
https://www.stripes.com/news/p-t-in-space-online-jokes-target-space-force-1.534183

Loved the Space Force Theme Song.  :rofl:

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Journeyman on June 24, 2018, 17:54:35
Congress is starting to push back against the idea.Last year they killed the idea of USAF Space Corps.
Based solely upon open source news ("fake news" to some), there was absolutely no credible advisor (Defence, WH COS, USAF, DHS....) saying "good idea."  No wonder all the normally Trump-supportive sources are flooding the market with memes, pre-empting the late-night show hosts in mocking this.

Probably the most likely justification heard is that, when the First Lady was in limbo for a while recently, the President caught the Starship Troopers' co-ed shower scene -- one frame at a time, of course -- and thought, "as Comd-in-Chief, I could visit  the troops!"
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Thucydides on June 24, 2018, 18:44:55
While there is a lot of American military activity in space, it is scattered over all the Armed Services. Space is also a true "domain", with vastly different characteristics than land, sea, air, cyber etc., so the idea of actually grouping all these disparate capabilities under one roof to operate in one domain actually does make a certain amount of sense.

We might also consider that this idea has actually been floating around in various forms for decades (as well as single service attempts to gain a foothold in space; the US Army made studies of establishing a military base on the Moon as far back as the late 1950's [Project Horizon (https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB479/docs/EBB-Moon01_sm.pdf)], or the US Navy attempting to create a space fighter (http://www.astronautix.com/s/spacecruiser.html) that could be launched from an SLBM missile tube in the early 70's. The USAF's secretive X-37 (http://www.astronautix.com/x/x-37.html) tests indicate they are still looking at the technical aspects of how to operate in space, using more modern concepts and equipment.

So the idea of a single organization to deal with all aspects of Space warfare isn't, in of itself, a bad thing.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Journeyman on June 24, 2018, 18:56:11
Quote
...there was absolutely no credible advisor (Defence, WH COS, USAF, DHS....) saying "good idea."

So the idea of a single organization to deal with all aspects of Space warfare isn't, in of itself, a bad thing.
Ok, one person now agrees, "credible" notwithstanding.  Please understand if I go back to being underwhelmed.   
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Thucydides on June 24, 2018, 19:24:19
Since we have no idea who said what behind the scenes, and I am not keeping track of inter service rivalries, I'm not clear why President Trump is broaching the idea now, nor what agenda this is meant to support/frustrate.

This may just be another "s**t or get off the pot" prod by the Chief Executive to stir the Armed Forces out of their comfort zones to start dealing with the various unconventional threats that we are being presented (Chinese stealth aircraft, Russian/Chinese hypersonic weapons, new generations of tactical nuclear weapons, cyber penetration of the US infrastructure etc.). Having to think outside the box might provide some new insights (although such a huge bureaucratic organization might simply swallow any such insights without ever noticing.....).
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FJAG on June 24, 2018, 22:28:54
While there is a lot of American military activity in space, it is scattered over all the Armed Services. Space is also a true "domain", with vastly different characteristics than land, sea, air, cyber etc., so the idea of actually grouping all these disparate capabilities under one roof to operate in one domain actually does make a certain amount of sense.

We might also consider that this idea has actually been floating around in various forms for decades (as well as single service attempts to gain a foothold in space; the US Army made studies of establishing a military base on the Moon as far back as the late 1950's [Project Horizon (https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB479/docs/EBB-Moon01_sm.pdf)], or the US Navy attempting to create a space fighter (http://www.astronautix.com/s/spacecruiser.html) that could be launched from an SLBM missile tube in the early 70's. The USAF's secretive X-37 (http://www.astronautix.com/x/x-37.html) tests indicate they are still looking at the technical aspects of how to operate in space, using more modern concepts and equipment.

So the idea of a single organization to deal with all aspects of Space warfare isn't, in of itself, a bad thing.

Isn't this why the US forces have both geographic and functional Unified Combatant Commands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_combatant_command#History (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_combatant_command#History)

Title 10 US Code Chapter 6  respecting Combatant Commands is here:

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/pdf/USCODE-2010-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap6.pdf (https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/pdf/USCODE-2010-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap6.pdf)

See especially s 161 where the President with the advice and assistance of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff through the Secretary of Defence shall (1) establish Unified Combatant Commands.

That sounds a lot simpler than establishing a sixth branch.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Thucydides on June 24, 2018, 23:41:00
Isn't this why the US forces have both geographic and functional Unified Combatant Commands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_combatant_command#History (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_combatant_command#History)

Title 10 US Code Chapter 6  respecting Combatant Commands is here:

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/pdf/USCODE-2010-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap6.pdf (https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/pdf/USCODE-2010-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap6.pdf)

See especially s 161 where the President with the advice and assistance of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff through the Secretary of Defence shall (1) establish Unified Combatant Commands.

That sounds a lot simpler than establishing a sixth branch.

 :cheers:

Perhaps, although this might be more suitable for establishing "joint" commands, and also seems to be better suited to combining various capabilities over various domains (PACCOM, needs to control land, sea, air and space, and the cyber domain throughout for example).

At any rate, without really knowing what the particular end goal is, speculation is just that. Maybe President Trump is looking to distract everyone while the real goal is elsewhere.....

As a bit of historical trivia, the United States had some very ambitious plans for space warfare in the early 1960's which make for astounding reading. The people who developed the "Orion" nuclear pulse drive had serious plans to reach Mars by 1975, and send an expedition to Saturn soon after. Some of the military versions of their spacecraft would mass up to 4000 tons (similar to a modern naval frigate), rather than the spidery vehicles which reached the Moon in 1969:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2714/1

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/space/AD0385959.pdf
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on June 25, 2018, 00:40:01
I am afraid like Canada we have a lot of headquarters and of course general officers.For example do we really need AFRICOM ?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FJAG on June 25, 2018, 01:32:31
Perhaps, although this might be more suitable for establishing "joint" commands, and also seems to be better suited to combining various capabilities over various domains (PACCOM, needs to control land, sea, air and space, and the cyber domain throughout for example).

At any rate, without really knowing what the particular end goal is, speculation is just that. Maybe President Trump is looking to distract everyone while the real goal is elsewhere.....

As a bit of historical trivia, the United States had some very ambitious plans for space warfare in the early 1960's which make for astounding reading. The people who developed the "Orion" nuclear pulse drive had serious plans to reach Mars by 1975, and send an expedition to Saturn soon after. Some of the military versions of their spacecraft would mass up to 4000 tons (similar to a modern naval frigate), rather than the spidery vehicles which reached the Moon in 1969:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2714/1

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/space/AD0385959.pdf

Unified Combatant Commands are "joint commands" such as the geographical US Central Command and the functional US Special Operations Command each with various Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines etc service component commands and even subordinate unified combatant command elements such as USSOCCENT. The only question would be whether or not US Space Command is geographical or functional.  ;D

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Colin P on June 25, 2018, 11:27:17
Mind you I bet a lot of people making fun of the direction, also have no idea how their GPS works or just how reliant we are on space based navigation systems.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: daftandbarmy on June 25, 2018, 13:35:32
I am afraid like Canada we have a lot of headquarters and of course general officers.For example do we really need AFRICOM ?

Good point. Based on their casualty rates due to enemy action? I'd say they should probably all be fired....  :)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 29, 2018, 19:48:00
(https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/36428596_10156768403934739_1197231093061779456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=cefa406289fd51c53103fd5f7f6996d4&oe=5BA9D3E8)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Loachman on June 29, 2018, 21:28:27
His War Time Epaulettes are yuge...
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Journeyman on July 11, 2018, 10:38:48
(https://meme.xyz/uploads/posts/t/l-36901-why-do-we-need-a-space-force-space-isis.jpg)    :pop:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Thucydides on August 05, 2018, 15:52:48
The Pentagon is already moving in that direction:

https://www.defenseone.com/politics/2018/07/pentagon-create-space-force/150157/

Quote
EXCLUSIVE: Pentagon To Start Creating Space Force — Even Before Congress Approves It

Within months, DoD will start standing up a new combatant command, a new space-procurement agency, and a new Space Operations Force.

The U.S. Defense Department this week will take the first steps to create the Space Force, a new branch of the military ordered up by President Trump but not yet fully backed by Congress.

In coming months, Defense Department leaders plan to stand up three of the four components of the new Space Force: a new combatant command for space, a new joint agency to buy satellites for the military, and a new warfighting community that draws space operators from all service branches. These sweeping changes — on par with the past decade’s establishment of cyber forces — are the part the Pentagon can do without lawmakers’ approval.

Creating the fourth component — an entirely new branch of the military with services and support functions such as financial management and facilities construction — will require congressional action. Defense officials plan to spend the rest of 2018 building a “legislative proposal for the authorities necessary to fully establish the Space Force.” That would go to Congress early next year as part of the Trump administration’s 2020 budget proposal.

This plan, developed for execution by Deputy Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan, the Pentagon’s No. 2 civilian, is laid out in a 14-page draft report slated to go to lawmakers on Wednesday. Defense One reviewed a draft of the report dated July 30.

Related: What Trump’s Space Force Announcement Means

Related: The US Air Force Is Reorganizing to Fight in Space

“The Department of Defense is establishing a Space Force to protect our economy through deterrence of malicious activities, ensure our space systems meet national security requirements and provide vital capabilities to joint and coalition forces across the spectrum of conflict,” says the draft report. “DoD will usher in a new age of space technology and field new systems in order to deter, and if necessary degrade, deny, disrupt, destroy and manipulate adversary capabilities to protect U.S. interests, assets and way of life…This new age will unlock growth in the U.S. industrial base, expand the commercial space economy and strengthen partnerships with our allies.”

The Pentagon declined to comment on the report in advance of its formal release later this week.

New Forces

The draft report says the Pentagon will, by year’s end, establish an eleventh unified combatant command: U.S. Space Command. Like U.S. Special Operations Command, which oversees special forces composed of servicemembers and organizations drawn from various service branches, the four-star Space Command will oversee space forces from across the military. The proposal goes even further than lawmakers demanded in the 2019 National Defense Authorization Act, which orders the Pentagon to create a space command under U.S. Strategic Command.

“The Department will recommend that the President revise the Unified Campaign Plan to create the new U.S. Space Command by the end of 2018 and evaluate the need for any additional personnel, responsibilities and authorities,” the draft report says. Initially, the Pentagon will recommend that the head of Air Force Space Command also serve as the commander of U.S. Space Command. Space liaisons will be installed in the geographic combatant commands, starting with U.S. European Command.

The draft report says the Pentagon will also stand up a Space Operations Force, made up of uniformed and civilian space personnel from the four military services and the National Guard and Reserve.

“Similar to Special Forces personnel provided by all military services, the Space Operations Force will be composed of the space personnel from all Military Services, but developed and managed as one community,” it says.

This force would come together quickly: the goal is to deploy “teams of space experts” to U.S. European Command and U.S. Indo-Pacific Command by next summer.

New Ways to Procure Satellites

The draft report heralds seismic changes in how the Pentagon buys, launches, and develops new technology for its satellites, including organizational and cultural shifts to emphasize speed and experimentation. It also plans a bigger role for private-sector space companies “as commercial and government entities ‘move toward the center’ on requirements, regulation and compliance.”

The centerpiece of this effort is a new joint office, dubbed the Space Development Agency, to oversee new satellite-development and space-launch contracts.

“Major existing space acquisition programs will remain in current service organizations, and aggressively pursue improved performance, while the Space Development Agency develops and fields the capabilities outlined in the DoD Space Vision,” the draft report says. “Over time, as current programs complete, resources will shift from service space acquisition organizations to the Space Development Agency.”

The biggest impact will be on the Air Force. The move clouds the future of the service’s Space and Missile Systems Center, the 6,000-person organization in Los Angeles that currently oversees about 85 percent of DoD’s space procurement budget — and which was recently restructured to speed the purchase and launch of satellites. The report calls this overhaul “the start.”

Like the Missile Defense Agency, the Space Development Agency would oversee acquisition projects across the various military services. Its size will be determined by a “DoD governance committee in partnership with the intelligence community,” the report said. Its location will be determined through “an accelerated process that considers locations that best enable the Agency to attract talent, leverage commercial expertise and develop new capabilities at speed and scale.”

Currently, the Air Force has hubs for space in Colorado, California, and Florida. The Army and Missile Defense Agency have a large presence in Huntsville, Alabama, an area nicknamed “Rocket City” for its large role in NASA and military space projects. The city is also known as “Pentagon South” due to the high concentration of Defense Department civilians there.

The report, which responds to a congressional mandate in the 2018 Defense Authorization Act, was largely written by Shanahan’s office and by Stephen Kitay, deputy assistant defense secretary for space policy, according to a senior defense official. Air Force officials were largely cut out of the review process several weeks ago, the official — and another source with knowledge of the decision — said on the condition of anonymity to speak about the yet-to-be-released report.

From Idea to Plan

The idea of creating a new service-level organization to handle the military’s space operations has been contentious since lawmakers last year proposed to attach a space corps to the Air Force, along the lines of the Marine Corps and the Navy. Pentagon leaders, including Trump’s own Air Force Secretary, largely opposed that move. But in recent months, the president has mulled, and then stated his desire for, a Space Force. If it becomes reality, it would be the first new branch of the military since the Air Force was born out of the Army Air Corps in 1947.

“Both the chief of staff and I are actually very glad that … people are becoming more aware and having a debate about what we do about this as a nation. That just wasn’t really there before,” Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson said during a Washington Post event on July 25.

“I think the most important thing is to say focused on the warfighter and maintaining the lethality of the service, no matter how the org-chart boxes go,” Wilson said. “It’s all about the ability to fight. If we keep focused on that and not on which boxes move around which place in the Pentagon, then we’ll do the right thing for the nation.”

Wilson’s predecessor, Deborah Lee James — who served as Air Force secretary during the Obama administration — said Monday that she opposes a Space Force, but supports the creation of a combatant command, like the one discussed in Shanahan’s report. She made her  comments at a Brookings Institution event in Washington.

In recent years, the Air Force made numerous changes within its space arm to defend against Russian and Chinese interference. This week, the Pentagon is poised to announce a shift from “few independent” satellite constellations to a “a proliferated low-Earth orbit architecture enabled by lower-cost commercial pace technology and access.” Air Force officials hinted at these changes earlier this year when Shanahan visited Air Force Space Command in Colorado.

The Air Force operates 77 satellites in orbit while the Navy has 12 communications satellites, Wilson said.

“Satellites are really pretty fragile things and so we have to think now about how do we defend a constellation. It not always just direct defense,” she said. “It may be that we distribute a network. If you have multiple nodes it’s inherently more resilient than if you’re relying on one thing. Some it may be maneuverability. Some of it may be deception. There’s a lot of ways to make sure the United States can take a punch and keep on operating.”
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on August 05, 2018, 17:30:48
You MUST have Space Marines for Space Force.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: MCG on August 05, 2018, 19:34:41
You MUST have Space Marines for Space Force.
That goes without saying.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Thucydides on August 06, 2018, 12:31:48
Sorry to splash some reality on your fun, but Marines are actually a great model for the Space Force.

The USMC already operates across three domains (land, sea and air), has managed to integrate forces across these domains and is certainly small and flexible enough to think pretty far out of the box (dive bombing was pioneered by the USMC in the 1920 "Banana Wars", for example, and the SUSTAIN proposal to rocket squads of Marines into action using actual rockets and special reentry spacecraft is about as far out of the box as anyone has seriously proposed...).

While garrisons of Marines in orbit or on the Moon are not likely in the near future, I do suspect we wlll see a lot of the USMC migrating towards the Space Force as time progresses.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: MarkOttawa on August 12, 2018, 13:53:55
Conclusion on a piece by a prof. who knows military stuff (written a book, Grounded, advocating abolition of USAF! http://www.cips-cepi.ca/2014/06/24/wherefore-the-air-force-a-review-of-robert-farleys-grounded/):

Quote
Is It Time for a Space Force?
By Robert Farley [https://www.uky.edu/pattersonschool/people/faculty/dr-robert-farley]
...
There are substantial downsides and few clear upsides to the creation of an independent space force. A Space Force could capture some gains to specialization reflected in the development of offensive and defensive weapons designed to protect U.S. space-based assets, or threaten the space-based assets of potential foes. The creation of a Space Force could also ensure that space receives sufficient bureaucratic attention, and that it does not need to compete within an organization against other priorities.

But it is not obvious that the existing services have allowed space to lay fallow, or that there are substantial unexplored gains in the area of offensive or defensive space weaponry. Other solutions, including the creation of a combatant command dedicated to space (which would include personnel and priorities from the existing services, rather than residing in the Air Force), or the creation of a Space Corps within the Air Force (similar organizationally to the U.S. Marine Corps) could potentially resolve the problems that a Space Force is supposed to solve, without creating a complex new bureaucratic hierarchy. To this point, the Trump administration has not offered a compelling logic for why the problem of fighting in space requires such a drastic organizational solution.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/it-time-space-force

Mark
Ottawa
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Spencer100 on August 15, 2018, 14:59:24
You can get the T-shirt now

https://www.amazon.com/Space-Force-T-Shirt-USA-Shirt/dp/B07FGHM4WH/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1534077959&sr=1-5&nodeID=7141123011&psd=1&keywords=space+force+t-shirt&linkCode=sl1&tag=insta0c-20&linkId=ca77c8c615516d5f5e213b0a6d085d22&language=en_US (https://www.amazon.com/Space-Force-T-Shirt-USA-Shirt/dp/B07FGHM4WH/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1534077959&sr=1-5&nodeID=7141123011&psd=1&keywords=space+force+t-shirt&linkCode=sl1&tag=insta0c-20&linkId=ca77c8c615516d5f5e213b0a6d085d22&language=en_US)
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Thucydides on August 16, 2018, 12:17:32
Military assets in space are nothing new, Salyut 3 (https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Salyut%203&item_type=topic) was a manned reconnaissance platform armed with a 23mm cannon adapted from an aircraft cannon, and several nations have tested anti satellite weapons. The Russians are now apparently testing some sort of manoeuvrable satellite system (possibly comparable to the US X-37?), which may be an ASAT weapon. Orbital "fighters" are not going be like "X-Wings" any time soon....

https://abcnews.go.com/International/us-concerned-russian-satellites-abnormal-behavior/story?id=57206620

Quote
US concerned by Russian satellite's 'very abnormal behavior'
By Conor Finnegan [/b] Aug 15, 2018, 8:26 PM ET

When Vice President Mike Pence laid out the Trump administration's plan to establish a Space Force as a new branch of the military last Thursday, critics said it was a wasteful and unnecessary step that added bureaucracy for something that didn't present a threat.

But now the U.S. is voicing concerns and claiming that threat is very real -- pointing in particular to a Russian satellite's "very abnormal behavior."

The satellite, launched in October 2017, has displayed behavior "inconsistent with anything seen before from" the kind of satellite Russia has said it is, according to Assistant Secretary of State for Arms Control, Verification, and Compliance Yleem D.S. Poblete.

Instead, without saying it outright, Poblete implied that the object could be a weapon, but said the U.S. cannot know for sure.

"We don't know for certain what it is, and there is no way to verify it," Poblete said yesterday in Geneva, Switzerland, at the Conference on Disarmament. Poblete was speaking before the international body for negotiating arms control to express the U.S.'s "serious concerns" about Russia's push to launch weapons in space, especially anti-satellite weapons that can target satellites that the U.S. relies on for business, scientific and military purposes.

Poblete cited recent comments from several top Russian officials, including President Vladimir Putin, about the development of weapons in space and Putin unveiling a mobile laser system in March that could shoot down satellites.

"The Russian pursuit of counterspace capabilities is consistent with these other activities and is disturbing given the recent pattern of Russian malign behavior," she said.

Russia has denied the satellite is a weapon, with a senior Russian diplomat in Geneva telling Reuters these were "the same unfounded, slanderous accusations based on suspicions, on suppositions and so on." Instead, the diplomat called on the US to make a "constructive contribution" to improve a treaty backed by Russia and China to ban weapons in space.

That document -- the Prevention of the Placement of Weapons in Outer Space, or PPWT -- has been opposed by the U.S. for years, with the Obama administration calling it "fundamentally flawed" in 2014. The U.S. says it allows for too many loopholes and too few inspections that it gives cover to countries like Russia and China to do the very thing it is trying to prevent, weaponize space.

Poblete went further, saying international weapons inspections are virtually impossible in space, leaving only the chance to observe the behavior of another country's satellites. But because "we have no means of differentiating many objects’ behaviors from that of a weapon," Poblete said, "Outer space arms control is unverifiable."

The top U.S. diplomat for arms control also warned that Russia "has routinely violated its international commitments" on arms control and cannot be trusted.

As Pence and Defense Secretary James Mattis announced last week, the Trump administration plans to establish a U.S. Space Command, a new combatant command focused on space as a war-fighting domain and led by a four-star general. Currently, a three-star Space Command falls under the Air Force, headquartered at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado and responsible for 30,000 personnel worldwide.

Congress, however, would need to approve the creation of a new military branch, and the administration says it will submit that as part of its 2020 budget request.

While Poblete only went after Russia on Tuesday, Pence during his speech pointed not only to Russia's development of that mobile laser system, but also to China's successful demonstration of how a missile can track and destroy satellites.

"Both China and Russia have been conducting highly sophisticated 'on-orbit' activities that could enable them to maneuver their satellites into close proximity with ours, posing unprecedented new dangers to our space systems," the vice president said. "Both nations are also investing heavily in hypersonic missiles that are designed to fly up to 5 miles per second and at such low altitudes that they could evade detection by our missile-defense radars. In fact, China claimed to have made its first successful test of a hypersonic vehicle just last week."

Pence added that the U.S. "will always seek peace, in space as on earth."
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Hamish Seggie on August 16, 2018, 12:32:44
That’s cool. When are we getting a Death Star?
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: cavalryman on August 16, 2018, 13:12:37
That’s cool. When are we getting a Death Star?
Depends on whether Irving or Davies gets the contract.   ;D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Hamish Seggie on August 16, 2018, 14:25:21
Depends on whether Irving or Davies gets the contract.   ;D

Then it will be underpowered and under weaponized. And no air conditioning until it is deployed on operations to rule the galaxy!!!!
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: MarkOttawa on October 22, 2018, 14:28:42
Pentagon's developing Space Force planning (note NRO not included for now):

Quote
Here’s The Pentagon’s Initial Plan For Creating a Space Force

 Parts of the Air Force, Navy and Army would move into a sixth branch, but the NRO will likely remain independent.

The U.S. Space Force will include uniformed service members drawn from the Air Force, Navy and Army — but it is not expected to include the National Reconnaissance Office mission, according an internal draft of the Pentagon’s plan to create a sixth branch of the military.

Defense One reviewed a copy of the 13-page document, which will be further developed in coming months before the Pentagon sends it to Congress in February along with its 2020 budget request. This early draft provides a glimpse into a 21st-century approach to creating a new service branch, an endeavor not undertaken since 1947. Among other things, it reveals divergent views among senior Pentagon officials about how to structure it.

For example, the document says the Space Force will not “include the transfer of [the] strategic intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance mission of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). But the Space Force and the National Reconnaissance Office will be integrated through …NOTE FURTHER INPUT HERE LATER REGARDING DOD/IC integration.” Note that in a Sept. 14 memo to Secretary Patrick Shanahan, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson Deputy Defense recommended including NRO in the Space Force.

The draft document calls for Space Force to absorb parts of Air Force Space Command, the Navy’s Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command, the Naval Satellite Operations Center, and the Army’s 1st Space Brigade [emphasis added].

The document says the installations and facilities where those units are based will remain part of their respective services until the Space Force “reaches an appropriate operating capacity.” There are six Air Force Space Command bases: three in Colorado, two in California and one in Florida.  The Army’s 1st Space Brigade is based in Colorado. The Navy’s San Diego-based SPAWAR has facilities around the world. The Naval Satellite Operations Center is at Naval Air Station Point Mugu, California.

The existing military services would still “retain organic space capabilities uniquely designated to support that Service’s or organization’s mission,” the document says. “Additionally, each Service may retain a cadre of space experts that serve as liaisons to advocate for and potentially operate space-related capabilities unique to its respective domain.”

Among the Space Force’s missions: space situational advantage; battle management command and control of space forces; space lift and range operations; space support to nuclear command and control; missile warning; satellite communications and position, navigation and timing [emphasis added].

“The Space Force will only be responsible for those missions directly associated with joint space operations,” the document says.

Missions that “that are tangentially associated with space” — including nuclear intercontinental ballistic missiles, cyber operations and “the overall missile defense missions” — will not be part of the Space Force, at least initially [emphasis added].

“Inclusion of these missions into the Space Force may be reevaluated in the future, as necessary,” the document states.

Pentagon officials have stressed their desire not to add layers of bureaucracy. Wilson, in September, said an additional 13,000 people would be needed. The draft Space Force proposal mentions a “lean headquarters model,” but does not list any numbers.

However, the plan says that the new branch would have a secretary and chief of staff, who would be a member of the Joint Chiefs. It also talks of creating a Space National Guard and Space Force Reserve [emphasis added].

The plan talks of creating a “pilot program” to enable the Space Force “to acquire talent from the civilian market in a rapid manner for a defined period after which the individual would return to civilian life.”

The draft does not including funding estimates, but has placeholders for a budget proposal and a “Defense Space Strategy.” Wilson, in her proposal, said it would likely cost taxpayers an additional $13 billion over five years to create the Space Force. Defense budget analyst Todd Harrison, of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, called her take “the highest estimate I think you could possibly come up with.”

Earlier this month, Shanahan said Pentagon officials would be figuring out the Space Force budget in October and November.
https://www.defenseone.com/politics/2018/10/heres-pentagons-initial-plan-creating-space-force/152203/

Mark
Ottawa
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: JesseWZ on January 17, 2019, 23:29:52
We're going to see a Space Force Comedy Series (https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/space-force-netflix-steve-carell-greg-daniels-1203109598/) before we see a Space Force...

I really enjoyed The Office, so I may watch. I *hope* it stays grounded to lampooning aspects of military life (in space?) and stays away from politics as another venue to poke the US president in the eye.

Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FJAG on February 19, 2019, 14:42:55
Quote
President Trump to sign directive approving scaled-back Space Force

President Donald Trump is set to sign a new directive Tuesday aimed at formally establishing a new space-focused military branch that will begin as an extension of the U.S. Air Force, yet another step toward making the “Space Force” a reality.
.l . .

See rest of article here: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-sign-directive-approving-scaled-back-space/story?id=61162957&cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-sign-directive-approving-scaled-back-space/story?id=61162957&cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed)

If true, this makes a lot more sense then the original proposal.

Hopefully the budget won't get purloined to build the wall.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: milnews.ca on February 19, 2019, 17:15:03
More straight from the White House (source (http://bit.ly/2SLSE7r)):
Quote
... Sec. 3. Legislative Proposal and Purpose. The Secretary of Defense shall submit a legislative proposal to the President through the Office of Management and Budget that would establish the United States Space Force as a new armed service within the Department of the Air Force.

The legislative proposal would, if enacted, establish the United States Space Force to organize, train, and equip forces to provide for freedom of operation in, from, and to the space domain; to provide independent military options for national leadership; and to enhance the lethality and effectiveness of the Joint Force. The United States Space Force should include both combat and combat support functions to enable prompt and sustained offensive and defensive space operations, and joint operations in all domains. The United States Space Force shall be organized, trained, and equipped to meet the following priorities:

(a) Protecting the Nation's interests in space and the peaceful use of space for all responsible actors, consistent with applicable law, including international law;

(b) Ensuring unfettered use of space for United States national security purposes, the United States economy, and United States persons, partners, and allies;

(c) Deterring aggression and defending the Nation,
United States allies, and United States interests from hostile acts in and from space;

(d) Ensuring that needed space capabilities are integrated and available to all United States Combatant Commands;

(e) Projecting military power in, from, and to space in support of our Nation's interests; and

(f) Developing, maintaining, and improving a community of professionals focused on the national security demands of the space domain.


Sec. 4. Scope. (a) The legislative proposal required by section 3 of this memorandum shall, in addition to the provisions required under section 3 of this memorandum, include provisions that would, if enacted:

(i) consolidate existing forces and authorities for military space activities, as appropriate, in order to minimize duplication of effort and eliminate bureaucratic inefficiencies; and

(ii) not include the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the National Reconnaissance Office, or other non-military space organizations or missions of the United States Government.

(b) The proposed United States Space Force should:

(i) include, as determined by the Secretary of Defense in consultation with the Secretaries of the military departments, the uniformed and civilian personnel conducting and directly supporting space operations from all Department of Defense Armed Forces;

(ii) assume responsibilities for all major military space acquisition programs; and

(iii) create the appropriate career tracks for military and civilian space personnel across all relevant specialties, including operations, intelligence, engineering, science, acquisition, and cyber ...
More on link or in PDF version below.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on February 19, 2019, 19:52:19
There should be a Naval component. Cant let the Enterprise be operated by the Air Force.  :D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FJAG on February 19, 2019, 20:58:23
There should be a Naval component. Cant let the Enterprise be operated by the Air Force.  :D

Absolutely! I'm quite sure that the Air Force doesn't use terms such as "Engage!" or "Make it so, Number One!" . . . But they should.

 ;D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Dimsum on February 20, 2019, 01:01:18
Absolutely! I'm quite sure that the Air Force doesn't use terms such as "Engage!" or "Make it so, Number One!" . . . But they should.

 ;D

Yeah..."weapon away" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: FJAG on February 20, 2019, 01:43:07
Yeah..."weapon away" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Or something silly like "Fox 2"

 ;D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: daftandbarmy on February 20, 2019, 09:34:18
Yeah..."weapon away" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Unless it's during a Friday night at the disco....
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: tomahawk6 on March 05, 2019, 15:36:27
According to the article SF would be around 15000 with an unspecified number of civvies.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/03/05/space-force-would-be-by-far-the-smallest-military-service/

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration’s proposed Space Force, which faces an uncertain fate in Congress, would be the smallest military service — by far.
Details of the Pentagon’s proposal released Friday show the new service would have about 15,000 personnel, including an unspecified number of civilians, but would begin in 2020 as only a headquarters of about 200. The proposal was submitted Wednesday to Congress, which must authorize the new service.
Space Force would be the first new military service since an independent Air Force was established in 1947 as part of a broad reorganization of the government's military and intelligence agencies.
Space Force would reside within the Department of the Air Force, similar to how the Marine Corps exists within the Department of the Navy. It would have its own chief of staff, a four-star general who would answer to the secretary of the Air Force, currently Heather Wilson.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: daftandbarmy on March 06, 2019, 00:28:01
According to the article SF would be around 15000 with an unspecified number of civvies.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/03/05/space-force-would-be-by-far-the-smallest-military-service/

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration’s proposed Space Force, which faces an uncertain fate in Congress, would be the smallest military service — by far.
Details of the Pentagon’s proposal released Friday show the new service would have about 15,000 personnel, including an unspecified number of civilians, but would begin in 2020 as only a headquarters of about 200. The proposal was submitted Wednesday to Congress, which must authorize the new service.
Space Force would be the first new military service since an independent Air Force was established in 1947 as part of a broad reorganization of the government's military and intelligence agencies.
Space Force would reside within the Department of the Air Force, similar to how the Marine Corps exists within the Department of the Navy. It would have its own chief of staff, a four-star general who would answer to the secretary of the Air Force, currently Heather Wilson.

So, just like the other 'SF' then?  ;D
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: Lumber on March 06, 2019, 07:59:28
I'm really just excited to see their logo.
Title: Re: Trump directs creation of 'space force' as sixth branch of military
Post by: MarkOttawa on August 20, 2019, 16:31:26
Space Force (actually Space Command, for now) and NRO:
Quote
Tectonic Shift As NRO Moved Under Space Command In Wartime [how does the US define that these days?]
US Space Command will officially stand-up on Aug. 29, with four main missions: "missile warning, satellite operations, space control and space support," says JCS Chair Gen. Joseph Dunford.

(https://sites.breakingmedia.com/uploads/sites/3/2019/08/NROmision.jpg)

If war in space erupts, the new US Space Command will have the power to order the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) to take “defensive space operations” under a new joint concept of operations. The new chain of command represents a tectonic plate shift in US national security space, which has long been plagued by often testy relationships between the Intelligence Community and DoD.

“For the first time, there will be a unified structure that fully integrates Intelligence Community and Department of Defense space defense plans, authorities and capabilities to ensure seamless execution of space defense systems,” Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire told the National Space Council today.

“Furthermore, should conflict extend to space, the NRO will take direction from the Commander of US Space Command and execute defensive space operations based on a jointly developed playbook and informed by a series of exercises and war games,” he added.

Maguire admitted that establishing coordination and cooperation between the NRO — which builds and operates US spy satellites — and US military space operations (even in wartime) has been an almost impossible task. As Breaking D readers know, for two years the former NRO Director, Betty Sapp, resisted efforts by the two top civilians in the Defense Department to create what in 2017 became the National Space Defense Center (NSDC) under Strategic Command. And NSDC’s powers to integrate NRO and military space activities was limited.

Commanders in the field for decades have been clamoring (even as this is being written) for their own satellite systems that would be more responsive to their immediate tactical needs, rather than having to wait for NRO to re-prioritize its relatively few and usually exquisite satellites. The Army, in particular, has plans to develop its own remote sensing and other types of satellites in Low Earth Orbit (LEO) [emphasis added].

But the Air Force, which controls about 90 percent of the DoD’s space budget, also has clashed with NRO over perceived priority needs. “This is a big deal,” one Air Force insider said, noting that currently NRO, the Air Force and NASA meet three times a year to “untie these knots.”

“For years there have been debates about how NRO and military space organizations can be better integrated,” Maguire conceded. He explained that Space Policy Directive-4, issued in February, not only called for a new Space Force, but tasked the IC and DoD to develop an “enhanced mechanism” designed to “increase unity of effort and effectiveness” of space operations.

“Early in this task, we recognized that the proposed establishment of US Space Command provided us with the opportunity to finally determine the appropriate level of integrations between the Intelligence Community and DoD to ensure effective space operations,” he said.

The new organizational structure will maintain the NSDC at Strategic Command that was established in April 2017 to integrate NRO data into military space operations, but will expand its remit and deepen interagency ties.

Meanwhile, the NSDC will be shifted to US Space Command, once the command is formally stood up on Aug. 29 by Vice President Mike Pence
[emphasis added], as announced today by Gen. Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Dunford said that initially 87 units will be transferred to the new unified command under Gen. John Raymond. Raymond’s mission, he said, will focus on “missile warning, satellite operations, space control and space support.”..
https://breakingdefense.com/2019/08/tectonic-shift-as-nro-moved-under-space-command-in-wartime/

Mark
Ottawa