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The Newsroom => Military Current Affairs & News => Topic started by: Colin P on June 05, 2019, 19:49:35

Title: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Colin P on June 05, 2019, 19:49:35
Sigh someone got their knickers in a knot for someone proclaiming exactly what they are.

https://nsadvocate.org/2019/06/05/news-brief-halifax-navy-sailor-with-islamophobic-tattoo-now-being-investigated/

Mod edit -- Just added a bit to the title to make it clearer.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 05, 2019, 22:46:09
Quote
Google that term and search results are full of white supremacist and Islamophobic memes.

Okay.

Noun
Quote
1: one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity

2a: an unbeliever with respect to a particular religion

b: one who acknowledges no religious belief

3: a disbeliever in something specified or understood


Adjective

Quote

1: not holding the faith of a given religionEither they must come to terms with surrounding infidel tribes or they must conquer the hinterland.— Daniel J. Boorstinthe infidel nations

2: opposing or traitorous to a given religion


Send that sailor to prison!
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: mariomike on June 05, 2019, 23:17:06
Quote
Google that term and search results are full of white supremacist and Islamophobic memes.

Okay.

Canadian infidels,
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=eHf4XPTTFaHc5gKtt5mQDg&q=%22canadian+infidels%22&oq=%22canadian+infidels%22&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0j0i22i30l3.2053.10505..11051...0.0..0.1262.3859.0j18j0j1j7-1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i131i67j0i67j0i131j0i10.aoJ5oefvAzo


Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 05, 2019, 23:28:20
Infidel vs Canadian Infidels.

Am I missing the word Canadian or even a maple leaf in that tattoo?

I'll tell you right now, there's alot of caf members with an "infidel" tattoo.
And Tshirts, and bumper stickers, and back window stickers.


Should we ban proud to be Canadian tattoos?  ::)
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: daftandbarmy on June 05, 2019, 23:42:18
Infidel vs Canadian Infidels.

Am I missing the word Canadian or even a maple leaf in that tattoo?

I'll tell you right now, there's alot of caf members with an "infidel" tattoo.
And Tshirts, and bumper stickers, and back window stickers.


Should be ban proud to be Canadian tattoos?  ::)

I assume that, as we speak, there are legal defence teams scanning the internet for photos of Senior Officers in the CAF wearing the (almost) ubiquitous 'Infidel' morale patch on their combat uniforms...
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: mariomike on June 06, 2019, 00:12:23
Quote
Google that term and search results are full of white supremacist and Islamophobic memes.

Infidel vs Canadian Infidels.

Okay.

Canadian infidels
https://www.google.com/search?q=infidel&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBz__L8NPiAhUFnlkKHcp8A6AQ_AUIECgB&biw=1280&bih=641
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on June 06, 2019, 07:32:23
You forgot all the people that THIS guy calls infidels! :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvfiCdk-jc
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 06, 2019, 07:48:40
I assume that, as we speak, there are legal defence teams scanning the internet for photos of Senior Officers in the CAF wearing the (almost) ubiquitous 'Infidel' morale patch on their combat uniforms...

And the next CANFORGEN coming up.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: milnews.ca on June 06, 2019, 08:24:20
Since this isn't touching on a specific op, just moved this into a more general military news thread.

Please continue, folks ...

Milnet.ca Staff
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: milnews.ca on June 06, 2019, 08:27:04
... and, for the record, here's an image of the tattoo in question for reference, in case it disappears elsewhere.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: daftandbarmy on June 06, 2019, 09:18:03
And the next CANFORGEN coming up.

TATFORGEN  :nod:
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on June 06, 2019, 11:06:49
That is the Tattoo they are complaining about?

 :rofl:

On another note, I've been rewatching the Sopranos which is widely considered a masterpiece and one of the greatest TV series of all time.  With the militant political correctness that exists today, would that show even be able to be made today?

Interesting commentary as well from Dan Houser (the creator of the GTA video game series):

https://m.ca.ign.com/articles/2018/10/24/dan-houser-thankful-not-to-be-releasing-grand-theft-auto-6-right-now (https://m.ca.ign.com/articles/2018/10/24/dan-houser-thankful-not-to-be-releasing-grand-theft-auto-6-right-now)

The prospects of a new GTA being released appear increasingly unlikely as Houser doesn't think he can satirize the game with today's political climate.  GTA 5 was the number three selling video game of all time behind only Tetris and Minecraft.

We are living in a very strange time of censorship and are becoming less free as a society. 
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on June 06, 2019, 11:27:01
But "we're" the ones allowing it.....
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Furniture on June 06, 2019, 12:45:03
Just wait until some special group decides that our GCS-SWA medals represent a war of racism, and colonial oppression, then demands take them off lol
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Big Spoon on June 06, 2019, 12:51:19
Just wait until some special group decides that our GCS-SWA medals represent a war of racism, and colonial oppression, then demands take them off lol


That may have to be my release date
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 06, 2019, 12:52:28
Quote
We then identified the sailor and the chain of command is now investigating,” says Major Mark Gough, Senior Public Affairs Officer, Maritime Forces Atlantic Headquarters.

Why the need for an investigation?




Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 06, 2019, 12:54:36
If I was a civilian in a Nova Scotia Tim Hortons just itching to cry about something and seen a sailor with a infidel tatoo my first thought would be why the hell doesn't Canada have an aircraft carrier and fancy carrier group. Or even just some cruisers and destroyers to really kick *** on the high seas.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on June 06, 2019, 12:55:55
Why the need for an investigation?


Because it's easier then leading?? :whistle:
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Hamish Seggie on June 06, 2019, 13:21:16
Why the need for an investigation?

Because someone has to hang.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Furniture on June 06, 2019, 13:21:23
Because it's easier then leading?? :whistle:

It's easier than having the entire CAF accused of wrongthink, resulting in Deschamps V2.0.

With a CAF comprised maily of white males I'm sure you can imagine how that would work out...
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Brihard on June 06, 2019, 13:23:55
Flipping back to the 1995 version of the dress instructions...

"9. Body Tattoos and Body-Piercing.
Members shall not acquire visible tattoos that could
be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic,
blasphemous, racist) or otherwise reflect discredit on
the CF."

That paragraph has continued pretty much identically since then. You'd have to be kinda dumb to think than an 'Infidel' tattoo in the shape of a rifle isn't going to cross that threshold.

Amidst all the whining about SJWs, snowflakes, and the perpetually offended and so on and so forth, has individual accountability and common sense stopped being a thing in the CAF?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: 211RadOp on June 06, 2019, 13:31:00
The current one (dated 2017-12-15) says:

9.Body Tattoos and Body-Piercing. As of September 26th, 2012, members are not to acquire any tattoos that are visible on the head, face or ears. Additionally, members shall not acquire tattoos that are visible either in military uniform or in civilian clothing that could be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic, blasphemous, racist or containing vulgar language or design) or otherwise reflect discredit on the CAF.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Brihard on June 06, 2019, 13:32:06
The current one (dated 2017-12-15) says:

9.Body Tattoos and Body-Piercing. As of September 26th, 2012, members are not to acquire any tattoos that are visible on the head, face or ears. Additionally, members shall not acquire tattoos that are visible either in military uniform or in civilian clothing that could be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic, blasphemous, racist or containing vulgar language or design) or otherwise reflect discredit on the CAF.

Yup... So the only real difference is 'visible in uniform'... Which this was.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 06, 2019, 13:34:15
For reference to the discussion,

Tattoo Thread - including current policy [MERGED]
https://navy.ca/forums/index.php?topic=869.575
25 pages.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on June 06, 2019, 13:41:46
"deemed to be"   Who doesn't love being put into a Orwellian scenario??

Something is offensive or it isn't,  if it takes debate to figure it out then it isn't, it's simple opinion.
99.9 % of us would spot, and agree, on offensive with zero debate whatsoever.


And since I think every tattoo put on human skin is offensive I got a lot of ratting out to do ..... ;D
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 06, 2019, 14:55:05
"deemed to be"   

It says,

Quote
could be deemed to be offensive

Could be to some, not to others.

You'd have to be kinda dumb to think than an 'Infidel' tattoo in the shape of a rifle isn't going to cross that threshold.

Have to wait for the results of the chain of command investigation,

Update:

Quote
CORRECTION, June 6, 2019, 1:30 PM. I was just contacted by Major Gough who told me the following. “I just realized I misspoke when I said we identified the sailor. We have not yet identified the sailor, but the chain of command is still investigating the matter.”
https://nsadvocate.org/2019/06/05/news-brief-halifax-navy-sailor-with-islamophobic-tattoo-now-being-investigated/






Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Fishbone Jones on June 06, 2019, 15:18:38
So, if a definition of 'infidel' is the absence of religion, how hateful and offensive would it be to have a crucifix tattoo, a Star of David a crescent and star tattoo? Do they get a buy because they are organised religions.

Infidel, by definition sounds no different than athiest, by the same definition. Simply, no belief in religion.

Nobody appears to deem it offensive when a muslim calls a christian an infidel or kuffar. Do we demand that they remove the words apostate, kuffar and infidel from the Koran and their speech?

When we are called infidels, out of hate, the best way to take the power from the word is to make it your own. We have turned it into a source of acceptance and humour. Since the word has become mainstream, on t-shirts, hats, moral patches, whatever, the sting has been taken away. The word has lost its power for us and those that use it hatefully.

Well, except for some Timmy customer.

I am not throwing out my T-shirts, nor do I intend to take a flame thrower to the English language to satisfy someone being uncomfortable with words.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: ModlrMike on June 06, 2019, 17:06:10
You're not looking at it through an Orwellian lens.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: BeyondTheNow on June 06, 2019, 17:06:36
Can we please stop skirting the fact that it’s not so much the word, in and of itself, that is causing the issue *all on its own* and/or what the definition of it is. It’s the fact that it’s written in combination with being the shape of an automatic rifle.

I personally don’t care one way or the other, but I’m not the one who placed a complaint, so whatever...

...But I’m pretty sure that if someone did the same thing using the word Gentile (which simply means ‘not Jewish’, so isn’t offensive at all, but in combination with other imagery ppl could take offence) it would still cause some raised eyebrows. And any number of other words when combined with guns could achieve the same reaction from some.

No one knows what the outcome of the “investigation” will be, but something of that nature (the word “Infidel” printed in the shape of a firearm) is open to interpretation, and maybe that’s simply exactly what the individual wanted to have happen.

Stop trying to state that there’s absolutely zero reason for anyone to question it. We all know what the ink guidelines/policies are for CAF members and if something is towing the line in some fashion and it gets noticed, well, then that’s on the host to explain.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 06, 2019, 17:31:29
Is infidel a word only followers of Islam are allowed to use?

If an Islam practitioner uses it then they're pious, if I use it I'm Islamophobic?

I'm pretty sure the origins of Infidel is Christianity, am I wrong?


Why is infidel in the shape of a gun considered racist and Islamophobic?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Tcm621 on June 06, 2019, 18:39:43
Is infidel a word only followers of Islam are allowed to use?

If an Islam practitioner uses it then they're pious, if I use it I'm Islamophobic?

I'm pretty sure the origins of Infidel is Christianity, am I wrong?


Why is infidel in the shape of a gun considered racist and Islamophobic?

It is derived from the Latin infidelis which simply means not faithful. Over time, it had become a word lobbied at anyone who doesn't share what you consider the true faith. The Arabic is Kafir. Muslims have a bunch of different types of infidels like Dahriya(athiest) and Murtad (apostate). To call someone a takfir seems to be like calling someone a heretic.

Why it is racist and Islamophobic? Because it is 2019, I guess? It very well be an expression of hatred of Muslims but there is no reason it has to be.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Colin P on June 06, 2019, 20:46:24
I can't ever recall a Christian using it to describe others, generally they say: Non-believer, non-Christian, agnostic or Atheist depending on the other persons position.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Hamish Seggie on June 06, 2019, 22:01:38
There was a T-shirt I wanted in 2006 that was similar to a well known sports logo that said “Major League Infidel”. It was discontinued so as to not offend the Afghans.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Cloud Cover on June 07, 2019, 00:16:59
I can't ever recall a Christian using it to describe others, generally they say: Non-believer, non-Christian, agnostic or Atheist depending on the other persons position.
Godless heathens? Commie. Timbit.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Colin P on June 07, 2019, 15:22:19
Actually few Christians ever disparage non-believers in front of me. I don't doubt there are some, but in general they are far more polite than the Atheists are about Christians.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Navy_Pete on June 07, 2019, 17:17:33
Actually few Christians ever disparage non-believers in front of me. I don't doubt there are some, but in general they are far more polite than the Atheists are about Christians.

I think it depends on the Christians you hang around with.  I've personally been told I was a godless heathen that was going to hell by a Christian, and a number of similar insults along that vein by other so called Christians.  They weren't even particularly the fire and brimstone type, but those are probably the worst examples.

My personal observation is that people that are generally pretty strident about criticizing your belief frequently stray far from the actual beliefs of their faith (such as the Beattitudes). That seems to be independent of the religion, so more of a human behaviour thing I guess. But you only really remember the small number of arseclowns that you had a bad interaction with, and not the thousands of times where nothing really happened. 
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: Harris on June 07, 2019, 19:01:46
I assume that, as we speak, there are legal defence teams scanning the internet for photos of Senior Officers in the CAF wearing the (almost) ubiquitous 'Infidel' morale patch on their combat uniforms...

Getting a list of everyone who bought these would likely help: http://www.cpgear.com/search/results?query=infidel&commit=search
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent
Post by: mariomike on June 07, 2019, 19:22:38
Getting a list of everyone who bought these would likely help: http://www.cpgear.com/search/results?query=infidel&commit=search

I like the "optional velcro" part. :)
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Nuggs on June 07, 2019, 20:59:26
I can't ever recall a Christian using it to describe others, generally they say: Non-believer, non-Christian, agnostic or Atheist depending on the other persons position.
In memory of my late grandmother, I'd like to add heathen to the list, it was her favourite.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: FSTO on June 07, 2019, 22:52:47


Why do reporters screw themselves when they make stupid comments like "tattoo in the shape of an AK47 Assault Rifle. These idiots wouldn't know an AK if someone butt stroke him.

About the tattoo on its own? Much ado about nothing to me.

In fact, how about we get rid of all religion from the CAF? It would be interesting to hear the responses to this from all corners of the political spectrum.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Target Up on June 08, 2019, 00:15:04
Other than it being a just plain goofy design for a tat, at the end of the day it's just a word. One that was used by Christian knights to describe the Saracen armies about 900 years ago.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 08, 2019, 00:22:01
In fact, how about we get rid of all religion from the CAF? It would be interesting to hear the responses to this from all corners of the political spectrum.

See also,

Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society 
https://navy.ca/forums/index.php?topic=25815.0
25 pages.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: PPCLI Guy on June 08, 2019, 01:03:57
Why do reporters screw themselves when they make stupid comments like "tattoo in the shape of an AK47 Assault Rifle. These idiots wouldn't know an AK if someone butt stroke him.

About the tattoo on its own? Much ado about nothing to me.

In fact, how about we get rid of all religion from the CAF? It would be interesting to hear the responses to this from all corners of the political spectrum.

If the same tattoo, in the same shape, said frig Christ, would you all be okay with it?  Can I have that tattooed on my forearm?  and walk around in public?  Just asking
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: ballz on June 08, 2019, 01:28:16
If the same tattoo, in the same shape, said frig Christ, would you all be okay with it?  Can I have that tattooed on my forearm?  and walk around in public?  Just asking

I'd think you were an idiot and if that were in any way comparable you might have a point, but the tattoo doesn't say "frig Allah."

Let's not pretend that there is not a faction of Islam that wants to bring death upon the infidels of the world, and have tried , and are still trying. Giving a big "frig you" to those who wish to commit genocide against you, your family, and your culture harm is quite different from "frig Christ" or "frig Allah."

I don't know this particular sailor's history but it's even more true for those who have fought overseas against Islamist extremists. When your enemy wants to kill you because you are an infidel, it's only natural to develop a sardonic sense of humour over something like this.

I don't see how this is any different from homosexuals embracing the word "faggot" as middle finger to the homophobic among us. If a gay person had "faggot" tattoo'd on their forearm, I might find it distasteful but I 1) wouldn't be offended; and 2) am in no place to judge.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Colin P on June 08, 2019, 01:35:33
Considering there was an active contingent of said Muslims trying to kill CF personal in Afghanistan, then I would say wearing the word is a way of saying 'eff you" for trying to kill me or my comrades.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Brihard on June 08, 2019, 02:23:29
And there are also many Muslims that we were fighting alongside, in the ANA. There are Muslims serving in our own ranks. There are Muslims in the ranks of countries we are allied with.

Pretending the tattoo is anything other than a middle finger to Islam is silly, so let’s dispense with the notion. It is what it is. I remember when the infidel shirts and hats and patches got cool for a while at the height of the global war on terror. Nobody expects aggressive young men in their twenties to be the pinnacle of taste, and that’s fine. A tattoo though? Really?

The question then is does or could it reflect poorly on the CAF. The sailor in question will, I’m sure, have a definitive answer in due course and I suspect he won’t like it. Given the dress regs covering tattoos that I posted earlier, at that juncture the individual will probably have no excuse any better than “yup, I was in fact that dumb”. When we join the CAF we choose to know and to follow its rules.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: ballz on June 08, 2019, 02:53:55
Pretending the tattoo is anything other than a middle finger to Islam is silly, so let’s dispense with the notion.

I don't know the guy, maybe he does hate all of Islam, maybe he's a crap stain, I tend to make that judgement about people with trashy tattoos.... but I disagree with your sentiment. Criticism, middle fingers, etc. toward Islamist extremists does not necessarily extend to all Muslims. This is the root of this Islamaphobia BS being pushed by those who wish to divide us into little tribes, that somehow we can't criticize the extreme elements of Islam without that extending to all Muslims and being meant to hurt all Muslims, as if they are a homogeneous group. And society is quickly falling for it.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on June 08, 2019, 06:55:37
If the same tattoo, in the same shape, said frig Christ, would you all be okay with it?  Can I have that tattooed on my forearm?  and walk around in public?  Just asking

No, see my post about 99,9% .....there is no debate on that, or"f" anyone's deity.

And if you are a civi you can have whatever you want.....being a moron isn't illegal. (though we all know it should be)
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: FSTO on June 08, 2019, 07:23:09
If the same tattoo, in the same shape, said frig Christ, would you all be okay with it?  Can I have that tattooed on my forearm?  and walk around in public?  Just asking

Does the word infidel specifically call out Allah, or Mohammad? No.

But if it did say screw Christ, I'd be okay with it because its just a word after all.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Chief Engineer on June 08, 2019, 07:33:36
According to social media member was in Afghanistan in the Army and was involved in a IED attack that killed friends, apparently the tattoo was an attempt to deal with his PTSD sometime later CT'd to the navy. He regrets the tattoo. The guy who went out of his way to take his picture and post on twitter is well known social media "warrior" https://twitter.com/robhutten. He outed the member and tagged his ship's name. The backlash against him was significant and he's now taken the tweet down but not before tagging Antifa and other groups. He's not really sorry.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Halifax Tar on June 08, 2019, 08:43:23
If the same tattoo, in the same shape, said frig Christ, would you all be okay with it?  Can I have that tattooed on my forearm?  and walk around in public?  Just asking

I think I, like most, wouldnt really care. 

If we, on the forum, are an appropriate cross section of Canadian society then I would surmise very few of us are actually practicing any religion and are probably more closely tied with being agnostic or atheist.

I never understood why some folks like to throw the Christian thing back.  Christianity is dying, western society has moved beyond its shackles and confines, IMHO. 
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Halifax Tar on June 08, 2019, 08:51:31
And there are also many Muslims that we were fighting alongside, in the ANA. There are Muslims serving in our own ranks. There are Muslims in the ranks of countries we are allied with.

Pretending the tattoo is anything other than a middle finger to Islam is silly, so let’s dispense with the notion. It is what it is. I remember when the infidel shirts and hats and patches got cool for a while at the height of the global war on terror. Nobody expects aggressive young men in their twenties to be the pinnacle of taste, and that’s fine. A tattoo though? Really?

The question then is does or could it reflect poorly on the CAF. The sailor in question will, I’m sure, have a definitive answer in due course and I suspect he won’t like it. Given the dress regs covering tattoos that I posted earlier, at that juncture the individual will probably have no excuse any better than “yup, I was in fact that dumb”. When we join the CAF we choose to know and to follow its rules.

You cant just dismiss a factual counter argument. You are essentially moving the goal posts.

The fact remains that Infidel is defined as a unfaithful.  It comes from Latin word infidelis.  If someone artificially conflates with Islam then they obviously didnt take the time to gain an understanding of our language.

The hilarity to me is the person who reported this is either a) offended by the word infidel, b) offended by the firearm shape of the tattoo; or c) both.  But he doesn't seem to take issue with the fact the phone he used take this picture was made in some 3rd world crap-hole and the workers we paid pennies. 

Some peoples kids I tell ya.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on June 08, 2019, 09:12:45
This is why I'm a big proponent of "sleeves down"  8) at all times.

1.  I hate rolling sleeves and think it looks stupid and sloppy.
2.  If you do have some ink, it's covered. It's one less thing someone can give you grief about.

Btw, not even close to the worst tattoo I've seen in the Forces.  My fav one was K.A.T. tattooed in big black letters on both arms of a Corporal which stood for "Kill All Taliban"



Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 08, 2019, 09:23:04
And if you are a civi you can have whatever you want.....

I've never felt the need to get a tattoo. So, I'm not savvy on them.

But, there is a policy where I used to work, "Tattoos depicting nudity, obscenity, racial, sexual, political or social bias must be covered."

Long-sleeve shirts in July and August.

In station, this is also required when visitors (non Department members) are present.

Which is a big step forward from the not so distant past when ALL tattoos had to be covered.

And, that's with a union. AFTER you get hired. After you are off probation.

Quote
Non-union workplace

The answer on hiring is simple and straightforward – an employer can legally choose not to hire based on any (visible) tattoos or piercings. There would be no violation of the Human Rights Act and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is not relevant. This simple statement applies whether it is a unionized workplace or a union free workplace

Here there are no legal restrictions on prohibitions by employers against tattoos and piercings. Simply put the employer's rights are as broad as noted above with respect to hiring.
http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/460616/employee+rights+labour+relations/Can+An+Employer+Prohibit+Tattoos+And+Piercings
The situation is more complicated after an employee has been hired. Here the employer's rights differ greatly depending on whether it is a unionized workplace or a non-union workplace.




Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 08, 2019, 11:18:29
Imagine the confusion if the fellow had PRIDE tattooed on his arm.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: cld617 on June 08, 2019, 17:24:36
I think this does a better job of highlighting issues in our regulations more than anything, that we can be punished for blasphemy.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: PuckChaser on June 08, 2019, 19:07:39
Imagine the confusion if the fellow had PRIDE tattooed on his arm.

As long as it doesn't say white pride, its fine.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Cloud Cover on June 08, 2019, 19:14:13
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/raising-middle-finger-is-relays-information-judge-rules-in-case-of-man-accused-of-breaching-no-contact-order                                                                                                                                     


The above might be helpful in understanding that in the view of the law, giving the middle finger or even a cold, hard stare can amount to an intimidating communication, as long as there is intent. Bear in mind that in respect of human rights law or Charter cases (both non-Criminal), the standard of proof is much lower and onus is on the accused/respondent to establish that no offence was intended against a complainant or any particular group.

Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 08, 2019, 19:52:55


Some interesting observations to draw away from the Iman's interview, wouldn't you agree MM?




After deleting his tweet (comment about deleting the tweet seemed rather flippant) Mr Rob Hutten locked up his account.

I guess trying to doxx a CAF member with a 13 year old tattoo done up to deal with getting blown up, losing friends and some PTSD rubbed some people the wrong way.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 08, 2019, 20:02:13
Some interesting observations to draw away from the Iman's interview, wouldn't you agree MM?

Reply #39 was news article regarding the Original Post.

It was posted without comment.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 08, 2019, 20:22:29
So what did you think of the article?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 08, 2019, 20:25:18
So what did you think of the article?

Like I said, Jarnhamar,

Reply #39 was news article regarding the Original Post.

It was posted without comment.

Why do reporters screw themselves when they make stupid comments like "tattoo in the shape of an AK47 Assault Rifle. These idiots wouldn't know an AK if someone butt stroke him.

If anyone has a bone to pick with the article in Reply #39 , the reporter's name and e-mail is at the top.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Brad Sallows on June 08, 2019, 22:52:57
Once upon a time we had a round of discussions that ended with "let's not post articles without comment".  What happened to that?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 08, 2019, 22:58:21
Once upon a time we had a round of discussions that ended with "let's not post articles without comment".  What happened to that?

Ok. If you feel that strongly about it.

Article removed.

Lots of articles get posted without comment - or complaint,
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,130548.msg1573931/topicseen.html#new

Do you have a reference?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Brihard on June 09, 2019, 08:32:31
According to social media member was in Afghanistan in the Army and was involved in a IED attack that killed friends, apparently the tattoo was an attempt to deal with his PTSD sometime later CT'd to the navy. He regrets the tattoo.

I’ll buy that, and am a hell of a lot more sympathetic given those particulars. I hope he’s doing better these days, that’s some pretty awful crap to carry.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Gimli on June 09, 2019, 08:40:13
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the trendy infidel fashion thing come about by embracing insults?   Not factoring in how the word was used historically, these days some Muslims use it as a condemning word.  However some non Muslims now use it as a badge of honour. 

Similar to American Republicans embracing “Deplorable".  Black people taking ownership of the N word.  And if I’m not mistaken, “Christian" was originally used in a derogatory manner. 

For some reason this seems to be viewed differently.  I am contemplating why.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Brihard on June 09, 2019, 08:49:02
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the trendy infidel fashion thing come about by embracing insults?   Not factoring in how the word was used historically, these days some Muslims use it as a condemning word.  However some non Muslims now use it as a badge of honour. 

Similar to American Republicans embracing “Deplorable".  Black people taking ownership of the N word.  And if I’m not mistaken, “Christian" was originally used in a derogatory manner. 

For some reason this seems to be viewed differently.  I am contemplating why.

Quite likely. That notwithstanding, how would the CAF see it if a member of African descent had an N-bomb visibly tattooed on their arm, exposed while in uniform? I’m sure we can think of other slurs too that would fit analogous circumstances.

We’re speaking here within the limited context of the display, while in uniform, of tattoos that could potentially bring the CAF into disrepute. It’s not unreasonable for CAF to keep a grip on this just as any other employer can. It’s just one of many instances where the free expression of CAF member’s is subject to some limitations.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on June 09, 2019, 08:56:00
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the trendy infidel fashion thing come about by embracing insults?   Not factoring in how the word was used historically, these days some Muslims use it as a condemning word.  However some non Muslims now use it as a badge of honour. 

Similar to American Republicans embracing “Deplorable".  Black people taking ownership of the N word.  And if I’m not mistaken, “Christian" was originally used in a derogatory manner. 

For some reason this seems to be viewed differently.  I am contemplating why.

You aren’t wrong. Many folks were wearing Infidels badges, hats, shirts, and apparently tattoos. We were often referred to as “Infidels”, by the very folks who wanted to kill us. I remember seeing baby onesies with “little Infidel” printed on them.

I’m sorry but I think this whole thing is stupid, one guy sees an opportunity to smear the military and he jumped all over it. We have to stop giving these assholes their 15 mins of fame.
 
 
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 09, 2019, 09:41:28
I figured you posted it because something there in caught your eye.

I posted it because it was relevant to the discussion.

I was genuinely curious about your thoughts in the article.

I don't know what I could possibly add. I don't have a tattoo. The meaning of the word "infidel" has already been explained by yourself and others. The last CAF rifle I fired was an FN.

The chain of command is investigating. I am sure someone will post the results - if they are made public.









Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 09, 2019, 09:48:49
Sorry MM you caught me cross posting/editing.

I posted it because it was relevant to the discussion.

100 %
I actually thought it was a great article to post which highlighted some underlying problems. Not so much about the ak47 comment but the subtle accusations of possible violence from the CAF member and accusations and assumptions of ignorance.

Quote
I don't know what I could possibly add. I don't have a tattoo. The meaning of the word "infidel" has already been explained by yourself and others. The last CAF rifle I fired was an FN.


Let's get you a tattoo and go shooting an AR-15. 
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 09, 2019, 09:54:13
Let's get you a tattoo and go shooting an AR-15.

I'll add that to my bucket list.  :)

Loved that branding iron scene in Jarhead.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Fishbone Jones on June 09, 2019, 11:44:17
Why was post #39 edited? Now we've got half a page of discussion with no reference?

Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Brad Sallows on June 09, 2019, 13:07:12
>Lots of articles get posted without comment - or complaint,

The only one I saw at the direct link was from FJAG, but a quotation was extracted.

Policy here is to avoid copying-and-pasting large articles; a link with nothing to indicate any particular point of interest is the other extreme.  I - and probably many others - have not enough time in the day to read everything, and I doubt the articles which are linked are necessarily the most balanced or authoritative takes on a matter rather than whatever the poster has found that most reinforces one point of view.  If an article makes some relevant points, snip them out and past them with the link; or, add a couple of sentences describing what might be of interest or recapitulating what you believe the article adds to the discussion.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 09, 2019, 13:31:52
; a link with nothing to indicate any particular point of interest is the other extreme. 

I felt the included title was descriptive enough,
Quote
Halifax mosque leader on infidel tattoo: ‘might be on his hand, it might not be in his heart’

Guess it wasn't. I had nothing to add.  So, I removed my post.

If an article makes some relevant points, snip them out and past them with the link;

ok. I usually do. I should have put more than just the title,

Quote
“Open arms, no problem,” Khan said. “We would host him in our mosque. We would sit and have dinner with him and see what’s happening and put things in perspective. Let bygones be bygones.”

Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: milnews.ca on June 10, 2019, 12:11:21
A bit more (https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/navy-confirms-investigation-after-tweet-showing-sailor-with-infidel-arm-tattoo-1.4456769), from both the CAF & the original Twitter-er, shared under the usual caveats ...
Quote
The Royal Canadian Navy says it has confirmed the identity of a sailor who was singled out on social media for his tattoo featuring the word "infidel" in the shape of a rifle.

Maj. Mark Gough of Maritime Forces Atlantic said late Friday afternoon that as a result, "the chain of command is investigating the matter further." He provided no other details.

Earlier, he said the navy received word about the tattoo from a Forces member who noticed a tweet from a Halifax coffee shop customer Tuesday and sent it to his superiors.

A photo in the tweet shows only a man's arm with the tattoo as he waits in line to be served. The tweet identified the man as being in uniform and wearing an HMCS Fredericton ball cap.

Gough said the military is concerned by any action or behaviour by a Forces member that would demonstrate intolerance or disrespect and is obligated to look into the circumstances.

"Some folks were offended by the tattoo," he said. "In this case, because it could be interpreted as being offensive to a certain culture, then we obviously have to look into it."

Gough said the issue will at some point be sent to the military's legal branch to determine whether any possible repercussions are warranted.

The Canadian Armed Forces does have dress instructions related to body tattoos and piercing. "Members are not to acquire any tattoos that are visible on the head, face or ears," the rules state.

"Additionally, members shall not acquire tattoos that are visible either in military uniform or in civilian clothing that could be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic, blasphemous, racist or containing vulgar language or design) or otherwise reflect discredit on the CAF."

The tweet by Rob Hutten, which was taken down Friday afternoon, said: "Saw a navy guy in Tim's today in uniform & HMCS Fredericton hat sporting a huge 'INFIDEL' tattoo on his right arm, stylized in the shape of a machine gun. The message is clear, and scary as hell."

Reached for comment Friday, Hutten said he was offended by the tattoo and felt he had to publicize it because it was on the arm of an Armed Forces member. Hutten said he didn't talk to the man, who was standing with a couple of his friends at the time.

He said he has since been told by two people on Twitter that the sailor was the victim of an improvised explosive device in Afghanistan and got the tattoo because he was angry at the time.

"I have no hard feelings about this guy if he's not an Islamaphobe," Hutten said. "I don't want him fired, but he shouldn't be wearing that tattoo in public."
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Fishbone Jones on June 10, 2019, 12:35:07
Quote
"I have no hard feelings about this guy if he's not an Islamaphobe," Hutten said. "I don't want him fired, but he shouldn't be wearing that tattoo in public."

Says Mr Judge, Jury and Executioner.

How have we reached the spot where a single individual can ruin a career and become an internet celebrity, by doxxing someone because of a tattoo that hurt his feelings and he went off half cocked without knowing the background, use or origin.? :facepalm:

Not including all the wasted time and manpower in the CoC, DJAG, press, etc investigating this.

Another word wiped from language and use, because it's deemed offensive by a single individual.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: FJAG on June 10, 2019, 13:09:22
Says Mr Judge, Jury and Executioner.

How have we reached the spot where a single individual can ruin a career and become an internet celebrity, by doxxing someone because of a tattoo that hurt his feelings and he went off half cocked without knowing the background, use or origin.? :facepalm:

Not including all the wasted time and manpower in the CoC, DJAG, press, etc investigating this.

Another word wiped from language and use, because it's deemed offensive by a single individual.

With respect--and at the risk of becoming embroiled in a thread I wanted no part of--I think that you are missing the target here.

It's not so much whether one person was offended or not but what is the person with the tattoo trying to say. I firmly believe in freedom of expression but with that freedom comes the countervailing fact that when you are expressing yourself then you are sending a message that you want others to receive. So my question is: what message is this sailor trying to convey by virtue of dedicating a fairly large patch of publicly viewable skin to a permanent marking that says "Infidel" in the shape of an automatic rifle?

No matter which way you cut it, he's either being subtlety or blatantly intolerant of something or just plain immature. The fact that some people might be offended by this is hardly surprising; neither is the fact that there are some people who would fight to the death to support his right to express himself this way. And it probably surprises no one that I stand in the middle: I'm neither outraged by nor supportive of the tattoo, however, I think that anyone who has one like this should not be surprised in the least by the fact that the chain of command will want to investigate his motives and level of common sense and make their own determination of whether or not he's what the military is about in this day and age.

 :2c:
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 10, 2019, 13:38:27
Quote from: FJAG
So my question is: what message is this sailor trying to convey by virtue of dedicating a fairly large patch of publicly viewable skin to a permanent marking that says "Infidel" in the shape of an automatic rifle?
Well, he IS an infidel who carried an AR15.

Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Cloud Cover on June 10, 2019, 14:08:13
It's actually what is the person intending to communicate, and whether that communication violates some established rules based order that is lawful. Any civilian can have that tattoo. Since a person's skin is not owned by the CAF, the tattoo is not an adornment on a uniform. It is not part of the uniform. It appears to be part of a "creed",  the interpretation of which is subjective and not necessarily designed or intended  to be offensive, racist, intimidating or blasphemous.  It may be all of those things to some people, but that's just too bad for them if the creed is bona fide. In the same manner the CF must accommodate religion with uniforms  and gender (and gender choice) with requested accommodations, they must accommodate creed. It isn't optional.

Edited for spelling and clarity.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 10, 2019, 15:33:36
Any civilian can have that tattoo.

Where I worked, before I retired, ALL tattoos had to be covered.

Long-sleeve shirts in July and August.

Now, departmental policy is, "Tattoos depicting nudity, obscenity, racial, sexual, political or social bias must be covered."

That's with a union. AFTER you get hired. After you are off probation.

In our business, it doesn't matter how well we do our job; if a member of the public feels our self-expression comes off as offensive, we are of no use to them.

The barometer was pretty simple.  How would people, especially senior citizens, feel with us coming into their homes.

For Dispatchers, it was less of a concern.

Quote
Canada: Can An Employer Prohibit Tattoos And Piercings?

The answer on hiring is simple and straightforward – an employer can legally choose not to hire based on any (visible) tattoos or piercings. There would be no violation of the Human Rights Act and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is not relevant. This simple statement applies whether it is a unionized workplace or a union free workplace
http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/460616/employee+rights+labour+relations/Can+An+Employer+Prohibit+Tattoos+And+Piercings
The situation is more complicated after an employee has been hired. Here the employer's rights differ greatly depending on whether it is a unionized workplace or a non-union workplace.

As noted, the rules differ once an individual is hired depending upon whether it is a unionized workplace or not.

Best bet is to wait until AFTER you get your union card.

Edit for spelling.









Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Cloud Cover on June 10, 2019, 16:49:03
I see police officers, paramedics, firefighters with exposed tattoos all the time, including police officers in Toronto on bike patrol. Maybe there is a policy stating these must be covered, but whether that is enforceable at all in say, a disciplinary setting, is quite different than just having a written policy.

You might also take note that in the absence of a union (which has a grievance system and a right to fair representation), a non-union employer will receive much more scrutiny in order to  assess their disciplinary actions. 
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on June 10, 2019, 17:06:05
, a non-union employer will receive much more scrutiny in order to  assess their disciplinary actions.

Scrutiny from whom?

Quote
The answer on hiring is simple and straightforward – an employer can legally choose not to hire based on any (visible) tattoos or piercings. There would be no violation of the Human Rights Act and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is not relevant. This simple statement applies whether it is a unionized workplace or a union free workplace

Non-union workplace

Here there are no legal restrictions on prohibitions by employers against tattoos and piercings. Simply put the employer's rights are as broad as noted above with respect to hiring.

That is from the above Canadian source.

Also this. From another Canadian source. Something to consider if changing employers,

Quote
So long as the tattoos or piercings are not part of an ethnic, religious or tribal custom, the Human Rights Act and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms do not apply to employers’ hiring choices with regards to body modifications.
https://www.kcyatlaw.ca/tattoos-piercings-workplace-canada/

This can also be a hiring factor,

"Distinguish between employee roles (i.e. those that do and do not interact with customers or clients)"

eg: A call-centre or warehouse etc.

I see police officers, paramedics, firefighters with exposed tattoos all the time, including police officers in Toronto on bike patrol. Maybe there is a policy stating these must be covered, but whether that is enforceable at all in say, a disciplinary setting, is quite different than just having a written policy.

I would guess most waited until after  they got hired. That's the conventional advice to candidates.

After they get on the job, I think covering and discipline depends on individual circumstances. Being unionised, there is also a grievance and arbitration process.

Trivia,

( Most probably would not remember, but it wasn't so long ago that all Metro officers - with or without tattoos - wore long-sleeved shirts all summer. And that was before their cars had air-conditioning! )







Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Brad Sallows on June 10, 2019, 23:12:05
Well, find a nordic ancestor and go nuts with your Viking tribal customs.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Loachman on June 11, 2019, 00:15:48
People from my ancestral area of origin (Norfolk/East Anglia) either beat up the locals or were beaten up by the "migrants" prior to eventually intermingling and crossbreeding over a millennium ago, so I probably could "go nuts".

I have some ideas in mind - perhaps a C7 composed of the word "Pride" (thanks, Jarnhamar - excellent suggestion; it reclaims "pride" as well) crossing a dripping bearded axe - but lack any interest in acquiring a tattoo.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: X Royal on June 11, 2019, 01:09:10
"deemed to be"   Who doesn't love being put into a Orwellian scenario??
Meaning changes greatly when you drop the first part of the quote.
It said "that could be deemed to be offensive".
The "that could be" changes the whole meaning. Far more inclusive.
But for some reason you knew that.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Chief Engineer on June 11, 2019, 07:26:54
I think the moral of this story is that a tattoo that you gotten with the best of intentions at the time could very well come back to haunt you years later. Our ship just came back from Fleet Week in New York where a sizeable amount of our sailors got tattoos some free because it was part of a Fleet Week promotion. I wonder in 10 years time could some of these tattoos could be deemed offensive and come back to haunt them.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on June 11, 2019, 07:56:07
Meaning changes greatly when you drop the first part of the quote.
It said "that could be deemed to be offensive".
The "that could be" changes the whole meaning. Far more inclusive.
But for some reason you knew that.

Actually it doesn't change a thing....makes it even more ambiguous.   I could be a rock star,...I'm not, but "could be".   What???
Floating goal posts....so good when you'd rather "call for an investigation" rather then deal with it at your leadership level..
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 11, 2019, 08:22:06
I personally think this incident is another example of someone looking for something "Islamophobic" to be offended about and start a witch hunt over.


Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: AbdullahD on June 11, 2019, 08:38:37
I personally think this incident is another example of someone looking for something "Islamophobic" to be offended about and start a witch hunt over.

Nah, this is a great post of idiocy on all sides.

People need to go live their lives not exist in them and these silly issues will not be a big deal.

This sailor didn't hurt anyone, we are all spending a lot of energy wondering his motives. Why not just ask him and leave it at that? And who cares if he is an islamophobe. We can draw our own personal conclusions what that will mean about him.

Instead we all pontificate (current favorite word lol) about this that and the next thing.

Abdullah

P.s not necessarily meaning members here, but in a general sense.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on June 11, 2019, 08:41:39
People need to go live their lives not exist in them and these silly issues will not be a big deal.

Truly unfortunate, but that ship has sailed, aided by a more then willing media, since outrage sells.  200 people protest, top story, 200 million shrug their shoulders and go to work??    Crickets....
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: FJAG on June 11, 2019, 13:21:02
Time out for this:

(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62320570_2561720030525401_4779914321134092288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=b4ae815dae237e828b446f6405495bf8&oe=5D9980DD)

https://www.facebook.com/berkeleybreathed?fref=photo (https://www.facebook.com/berkeleybreathed?fref=photo)

 ;D
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Chief Engineer on July 09, 2019, 12:59:50
https://globalnews.ca/news/5474416/navy-sailor-infidel-tattoo-cover-up/

Navy confirms sailor to cover up ‘infidel’ tattoo after investigating social media concerns



A military spokesman says a sailor who was singled out on social media for a tattoo that featured the word “infidel” in the shape of a rifle on his arm has acknowledged the concerns raised by the tattoo, but military officials say they’ve concluded there was “no ill intent on the sailor’s part.”

Maj. Mark Gough of Maritime Forces Atlantic says the Canadian Armed Forces were alerted on June 4 about the photo of the sailor with the tattoo circulating on social media.

The force investigated after concerns were raised online about the nature of the tattoo and whether it was Islamophobic. Gough says that after speaking with the sailor, his chain of command concluded there was no ill intent by the sailor.

However, Gough added, the sailor has acknowledged and understands the concerns raised by the tattoo.

“He will abide with the Canadian Armed Forces’ policy on tattoos and he plans to tattoo over this tattoo as soon as possible,” Gough said.

 “As such, the chain of command considers the matter closed, and no further action is required.”

The military brought in regulations around tattoos seven years ago.

The regulations state: “Members shall not acquire tattoos that are visible either in military uniform or in civilian clothing that could be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic, blasphemous, racist or containing vulgar language or design).”

The military has recently committed to dealing with the involvement of Canadian Armed Forces members in hate groups after an internal report found that members had been linked to six hate groups since 2013.

Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on July 09, 2019, 13:59:17
Quote
he plans to tattoo over this tattoo as soon as possible,” Gough said.

Is that less painful than removal?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Strike on July 09, 2019, 14:41:39
Is that less painful than removal?

It's certainly less expensive.

Maybe he can get on that "Tattoo Nightmares" show? ;)
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Navy_Pete on July 09, 2019, 15:07:31
Is that less painful than removal?

For sure; know a few people that got removals and none of them enjoyed it (and some ended up with some minor scarring from the burns)

Coverups hurt as much as the original tattoo, but the arms don't hurt at all.  Some spots on your torso and some other areas can be pretty uncomfortable, but at least it's a one and done for a coverup (vice multiple trips for a removal).

This almost seems to be a common sense approach instead of a knee jerk response to the media; is it Bizarro Tuesday?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: cld617 on July 09, 2019, 15:15:24
What a joke.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on July 09, 2019, 15:19:19
Just get a tattoo artist to turn the AR15 into an AK47.  Then it's fine
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: kratz on July 09, 2019, 15:40:22
As long as we are suggesting cover ups for this tattoo:

(https://i.imgflip.com/g9dyj.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/g9dyj)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on July 10, 2019, 19:24:09
Has Rob Hutten (who tweeted about the tattoo) ever explained why he tagged #ANTIFA in his tweet?

What was his intention? Was it to try and doxx the sailor and sic a bunch of SJW on him?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Chief Engineer on July 10, 2019, 19:35:20
Has Rob Hutten (who tweeted about the tattoo) ever explained why he tagged #ANTIFA in his tweet?

What was his intention? Was it to try and doxx the sailor and sic a bunch of SJW on him?

He locked his twitter account until everything blew over as the backlash was great. Its back up again and he scrubbed everything about what he did before and no mention about the sailor that was cleared of any wrong doing. Personally I think that's exactly what he was doing, and it backfired on him.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Jarnhamar on July 10, 2019, 19:50:08
Looks like Rob is butt hurt and still making posts about infidels.

https://twitter.com/robhutten
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Chief Engineer on July 10, 2019, 19:59:56
Looks like Rob is butt hurt and still making posts about infidels.

https://twitter.com/robhutten

Didn't see that, what an arsehole.
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Target Up on July 10, 2019, 20:23:59
Why do these people constantly feel the need to be offended on behalf of everyone else?
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: mariomike on July 10, 2019, 21:55:41
no mention about the sailor that was cleared of any wrong doing.

There was no ill intent.

However,

“He will abide with the Canadian Armed Forces’ policy on tattoos and he plans to tattoo over this tattoo as soon as possible,” Gough said.

Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Kilted on July 11, 2019, 01:47:14
I don't know if he really could be disciplined for it. If the sailor had it for a long period of time it is likely that many people in his chain of command at various levels were aware of it and may not have commented negatively on the tattoo. 
Title: Re: Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions
Post by: Hamish Seggie on July 22, 2019, 23:21:39
Why do these people constantly feel the need to be offended on behalf of everyone else?

Because they are busy bodies, like rabid vegans and cult followers. :whistle: