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The Newsroom => Military Current Affairs & News => Topic started by: daftandbarmy on July 18, 2019, 18:20:52

Title: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: daftandbarmy on July 18, 2019, 18:20:52
Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against Canadian Armed Forces

The Canadian government has agreed to pay nearly a $1 billion to settle class-action lawsuits from Canadian Armed Forces members who allege rampant sexual misconduct in the military.

"While not admitting liability, the government of Canada has agreed to a settlement," reads a statement

Of the $900 million set aside, $800 million will cover current and former members of the armed forces and $100 million will go to Department of National Defence employees who experienced sexual harassment, sexual assault or discrimination based on sex, gender, gender identity or sexual orientation on the job.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-sexual-misconduct-settlement-1.5216307
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: PMedMoe on July 18, 2019, 20:58:46
That's it, I gotta put in a complaint.   ::)
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: FSTO on July 18, 2019, 21:25:10
Rampant Sexual Misconduct?

Definition:
rampant
[ˈrampənt]
ADJECTIVE
(especially of something unwelcome or unpleasant) flourishing or spreading unchecked.
"political violence was rampant" · [more]
synonyms:
uncontrolled · unrestrained · unchecked · unbridled · widespread · [more]
(of a person or activity) violent or unrestrained in action or performance.
"rampant sex"
synonyms:
vehement · strong · violent · forceful · raging · wild · intense · fanatical · passionate

I guess I'm pretty blind then. Because I never saw anyone naked chasing each other down the flats of HMCShips I served in.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Colin P on July 18, 2019, 21:27:54
That's it, I gotta put in a complaint.   ::)

I am sure I felt harassed at some point, where do I sign up?
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: milnews.ca on July 18, 2019, 21:48:16
I stand to be corrected, but according to the info-machine (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2019/07/statement-from-the-department-of-national-defence-and-the-canadian-armed-forces.html), if your name's not on the class action list now, I don't read any indication of being able to jump on ...
Quote
Deputy Minister Jody Thomas and Chief of the Defence Staff General Jonathan Vance issued the following statement:

“Today, the Government of Canada announced that a settlement has been reached between the Canadian Armed Forces/Department of National Defence/Staff of the Non-Public Funds and the plaintiffs in class action lawsuits initiated by seven former members of the CAF.

“The proposed settlement sets out financial compensation, the option to participate in a restorative engagement program, and several other measures aimed at addressing sexual misconduct in the CAF.

“We are pleased that the government and the plaintiffs have been able to reach a comprehensive settlement which will advance the project of real and lasting cultural change ...
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: dapaterson on July 18, 2019, 22:58:23
Plaintiffs and their lawyers negotiate a settlement on behalf of the class; that agreement is ratified by the court, and then anyone within the class definition may apply for compensation in accordance with the agreement.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: dapaterson on July 18, 2019, 23:54:17
More information will flow i nthe fall; for now, here's the official website:

https://www.classaction.deloitte.ca/en-ca/Pages/CAF-DNDsexualmisconductclassaction.aspx
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Jarnhamar on July 19, 2019, 00:11:17
Since OP Honour was initiated and the report center spooled up I'd be curious to see:
-how many charges have been laid
-how many members have been found guilty; and
-how many members have been released as a result.

And then compare those numbers to pre-op honour.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: daftandbarmy on July 19, 2019, 01:19:45
More information will flow i nthe fall; for now, here's the official website:

https://www.classaction.deloitte.ca/en-ca/Pages/CAF-DNDsexualmisconductclassaction.aspx

Interesting in that it takes you to a consulting company's website...
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: FJAG on July 19, 2019, 01:27:19
For all of you who already hate lawyers, here's another reason:

Quote
17.01 Legal Fees – CAF Class
Within fifteen (15) days of the Implementation Date, Canada shall pay to Class Counsel its legal
fees in respect of the CAF Class in the amount of twenty five million dollars ($25,000,000.00),
plus applicable taxes at the rate applicable in the province of Ontario, which shall be in addition
to the compensation paid to Class Members. Class Counsel agree that no amounts shall be
deducted from any payments made to Class Members on account of legal fees or for any other
reason.
17.02 Legal Fees – DND/SNPF Class
Within fifteen (15) days of the Implementation Date, Canada shall pay to Class Counsel its legal
fees in respect of the DND/SNPF Class in the amount of one million five hundred and sixty
thousand dollars ($1,560,000.00), plus applicable taxes at the rate applicable in the province of
Ontario, which shall be in addition to the compensation paid to Class Members.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Lumber on July 19, 2019, 07:03:08
Quote
However, prior to the settlement, government lawyers tried to halt the class action suit, telling a court that the government does not "owe a private law duty of care to individual members within the CAF to provide a safe and harassment-free work environment, or to create policies to prevent sexual harassment or sexual assault," according to CBC.

I'm usually not one of those who gets riled and ask for heads to roll, but..

WHAT. THE ACTUAL. frig?
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Brihard on July 19, 2019, 07:38:12
For all of you whop already hate lawyers, here's another reason:

 :cheers:

25 million on a $1b class action? That’s really a pretty modest cut. 2.5%

I’d be curious to know how many lawyer-hours went into this file from start to finish. They’ve been at this for a while.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: dapaterson on July 19, 2019, 08:34:32
For Ross, Roy & Satalic, legal fees were $15M plus tax, so this is in the ballpark.  In fact, proportionately, it's less.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Jarnhamar on July 19, 2019, 09:47:08
For Ross, Roy & Satalic, legal fees were $15M plus tax, so this is in the ballpark.  In fact, proportionately, it's less.

It's like we're getting a deal with our tax dollars  :nod:
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Journeyman on July 19, 2019, 11:08:56
For all of you who already hate lawyers...
Who doesn't ?     ;D
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Navy_Pete on July 19, 2019, 14:14:21
I know a number of lawyers that also hate lawyers... but they have the best jokes about the profession! :cheers:
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: CountDC on July 19, 2019, 14:18:23
Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against Canadian Armed Forces

Have to admit reading comments on news pages can be interesting some times.    One person brought up an interesting point.  If they were working at Company X and a victim of sexual misconduct the charges and suit would be against the individual.  Mr/Ms Y would be paying.  So why is this suit against the CAF and tax payers footing the bill? Was the CAF supposed to provide something above and beyond Company X?

Had the displeasure at one point dealing with things in Ottawa and a lot times the problem with these cases were it was a he said/she said case when the MPs investigated with no evidence to support punishment. 

I wonder how many males will be filing and what the reaction will be to it.  Still amazed at how it is still assumed the victim is a female. 
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: BeyondTheNow on July 19, 2019, 14:34:53
Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against Canadian Armed Forces

Have to admit reading comments on news pages can be interesting some times.    One person brought up an interesting point.  If they were working at Company X and a victim of sexual misconduct the charges and suit would be against the individual.  Mr/Ms Y would be paying.  So why is this suit against the CAF and tax payers footing the bill? Was the CAF supposed to provide something above and beyond Company X?

Had the displeasure at one point dealing with things in Ottawa and a lot times the problem with these cases were it was a he said/she said case when the MPs investigated with no evidence to support punishment. 

I wonder how many males will be filing and what the reaction will be to it.  Still amazed at how it is still assumed the victim is a female.

That’s not accurate. Example below.

When events take place and persons aren’t held to account in multiple instances this is what happens. And if it can be proven a corporation knew about incidents and did not act accordingly in preventing similar acts from taking place again, then the corp. can easily be held responsible.

Quote
...Lewis later learned that WestJet had investigated a complaint from a flight attendant two years earlier alleging the same pilot had sexually assaulted her during a layover in Alberta, according to the lawsuit. It states the company did not discipline or fire him, nor take steps to warn or protect women scheduled to work with him.

Fired in 2016 after eight years with WestJet, Lewis has spoken out publicly about the “toxic” relations and “cowboy culture” at airlines and launched a proposed class action lawsuit against her former employer.

On Thursday, the Supreme Court of Canada refused to hear WestJet’s arguments to quash the lawsuit, which accuses the airline of failing to provide a harassment-free workplace for women. WestJet previously failed to scuttle the action in the B.C. courts after arguing that the dispute belongs in the quasi-judicial realm...

More at link:


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-sexual-harassment-complaints-soaring-amid-frat-boy-culture-in-2/ (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-sexual-harassment-complaints-soaring-amid-frat-boy-culture-in-2/)
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: milnews.ca on July 19, 2019, 14:37:41
Plaintiffs and their lawyers negotiate a settlement on behalf of the class; that agreement is ratified by the court, and then anyone within the class definition may apply for compensation in accordance with the agreement.
Thanks for clarifying - appreciated.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: CountDC on July 19, 2019, 15:57:23
Thanks beyond.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Jarnhamar on July 19, 2019, 16:29:52
Quote from: CountDC
So why is this suit against the CAF and tax payers footing the bill? 
It's infuriating our taxers are being spent on this because of POS CAF members and their weak and cowardly chains of command.

I get the CAF is responsible as an employer. Lets have some of those lawyers making the millions go after guilty members.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: mariomike on July 19, 2019, 16:43:10
One person brought up an interesting point.  If they were working at Company X and a victim of sexual misconduct the charges and suit would be against the individual.  Mr/Ms Y would be paying.  So why is this suit against the CAF and tax payers footing the bill?

The employer pays,
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,130702.msg1576399.html#new
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: daftandbarmy on July 19, 2019, 16:46:02
It's infuriating our taxers are being spent on this because of POS CAF members and their weak and cowardly chains of command.

I get the CAF is responsible as an employer. Lets have some of those lawyers making the millions go after guilty members.

This is an election year and the Liberals are on the ropes. They just sprinkled half a B note over cranky BC. You can expect to see a lot more of this kind of largesse shoveled off the back of the truck this summer in the ‘War for the Headlines’.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: dapaterson on July 19, 2019, 17:23:04
This is not a recent thing; the lawsuit has been ongoing for a considerable length of time.  I don't think the timing is tied to the election cycle - in a majority government situation, you've got a 1 in 4 chance of something falling within the 12 months before an election.

Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: FJAG on July 19, 2019, 17:50:11
This is not a recent thing; the lawsuit has been ongoing for a considerable length of time.  I don't think the timing is tied to the election cycle - in a majority government situation, you've got a 1 in 4 chance of something falling within the 12 months before an election.

I'd really like to believe that but unfortunately I have way too many cynic bones in my body.

As an election issue though I think this cuts two ways; there's the liberals and socialists who see this as righting a major gender based wrong vs the conservative view of a massive government expenditure that is the result of government and civil servant (in this case military) misconduct that should never have happened in the first place. (Note in particular that DoJ was arguing against any liability on a perfectly valid legal principle until overruled by the government on the grounds of optics)

 :pop:
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: daftandbarmy on July 19, 2019, 20:12:16
I'd really like to believe that but unfortunately I have way too many cynic bones in my body.

As an election issue though I think this cuts two ways; there's the liberals and socialists who see this as righting a major gender based wrong vs the conservative view of a massive government expenditure that is the result of government and civil servant (in this case military) misconduct that should never have happened in the first place. (Note in particular that DoJ was arguing against any liability on a perfectly valid legal principle until overruled by the government on the grounds of optics)

 :pop:

Yes!

And if they really wanted Justice with a capital 'J', they'd be pursuing these issues through the legal process and fixing the organization by - in some cases - punishing the guilty. However, that is messy and takes alot of time and thorough professional attention so it's easier to just pay people to 'go away and be happy', coincidentally, right before an election.  ::)
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: dapaterson on July 19, 2019, 20:44:38
More information on the case in Lawyer's Daily.

https://www.thelawyersdaily.ca/articles/13901/proposed-class-action-settlement-on-sexual-misconduct-in-military-includes-structural-changes-says-co-lead-counsel
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: garb811 on July 19, 2019, 20:57:58
Yes!

And if they really wanted Justice with a capital 'J', they'd be pursuing these issues through the legal process and fixing the organization by - in some cases - punishing the guilty. However, that is messy and takes alot of time and thorough professional attention so it's easier to just pay people to 'go away and be happy', coincidentally, right before an election.  ::)
I'm confused. How have you seemingly missed the entire reason for Op HONOUR by this point?
Quote
Mission

    To eliminate harmful and inappropriate sexual behaviour within the CAF.

Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: CountDC on July 22, 2019, 09:43:13
found this to be interesting:

7.11 Eligibility Limited for Category A Payments
The Compensation Amount in respect of Category A is only payable to women, and to those who
identify as a LGBTQ2+ persons, in respect of incidents occurring after April 17, 1985, who
establish that they meet the criteria set out in Schedule “Q”. For greater clarity, the Parties do
not intend for persons who do not identify as LGBTQ2+ and who experienced Sexual Misconduct
on the basis only that they were perceived to be LGBTQ2+ to be eligible for compensation under
Category A.

So because my friend is gay and thus I was guilty by association and both discriminated and harassed he can claim but I can't.  In fact as I stayed in I went through more of it than he did as it followed me.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: SeaKingTacco on July 22, 2019, 09:58:47
I happen to know of at least two cases where friends of mine who were straight males and were sexually assualted.

According to this, they won't be eligible for compensation.

 Guess that is fair...
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: Remius on July 22, 2019, 10:17:33
I happen to know of at least two cases where friends of mine who were straight males and were sexually assualted.

According to this, they won't be eligible for compensation.

 Guess that is fair...

How do you read that exactly?  There are other categories that they would be eligible for.  If they were assaulted Cat A is not likely the right one for them to apply for.

B1 or B2 maybe.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: SeaKingTacco on July 23, 2019, 01:29:28
How do you read that exactly?  There are other categories that they would be eligible for.  If they were assaulted Cat A is not likely the right one for them to apply for.

B1 or B2 maybe.

Ah! Thanks! Did not realize there were categories to this thing.
Title: Re: Ottawa to pay nearly $1B to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against CAF
Post by: dapaterson on September 20, 2019, 18:30:19
And the province of British Columbia is now seeking standing in court.  Together with (at least) Ontario and Nova Scotia, they are seeking to recover health care costs related to the alleged misconduct of soldiers, sailors and aircrew.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sexual-assault-canadian-forces-900-million-settlement-1.5291978