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The Quartermaster's Stores => Uniforms => Topic started by: maple_leaf_forever on November 08, 2001, 19:30:00

Title: Dog Tags
Post by: maple_leaf_forever on November 08, 2001, 19:30:00
Hey, I have a few questions concerning Dog Tags...

1.) Do CF members even get Dog Tags ?
2.) If so do all 3 branches recieve them ?
3.) And are they like the traditional Dog Tags like the US Military uses (the 2 piece Tags) or does the CF use a different type of Dog Tag.

Thanks in advance.

  :cdn:
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: spacemarine on November 08, 2001, 21:54:00
Yes
Yes
No, they are one piece with a groove down teh center to break it in half. The info is written on the top and the bottom again. You leave the top part on the dead person.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Michael Dorosh on November 09, 2001, 00:20:00
The current style of dogtag was introduced in the late 1940s, and was used in the Korean War and up to present day.  The material has changed and the protocols for information have changed slightly over time, but for the most part they have not changed in 50 years.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Soldier of Fortune on November 09, 2001, 18:03:00
Do reserves wear dog tags?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Spanky on November 09, 2001, 18:55:00
YUP  WE DO
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: bc_railfan on January 03, 2002, 04:17:00
do they still print the members‘ religion on the tag?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: snooprobbiedog on January 03, 2002, 10:04:00
Yup, the tags include your religion in an abbreviated form, e.g. ACC for Anglican Church of Canada.

Only one of the tags gives your blood type and RH factor, which I guess makes sense, it‘s pretty much useless info if you‘re dead...   :blotto:  

Rob
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on January 03, 2002, 11:47:00
If you don‘t want a religion listed on the ID Disk, don‘t fill in the space on the app form. They‘ll enter NRE (no religion entered) on the disk.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Marauder on January 03, 2002, 15:27:00
Well, technically, us Militia types do rate dog tags and mil ID cards. But after 4+ months in the regiment, I don‘t have them, nor do any of the guys who were on QL2/3 with me. Then again, it may just be that our BOR is filled with usless pouges. Who always seem to have nice shiny new field kit us line animals don‘t have issued. Go figure.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on January 03, 2002, 15:43:00
Marauder,
Get on your CSM, thru your Pltn WO. We got all our new guys in the WR done as soon as they came back and for the most part they‘re completed for ID cards and Disks.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: spacemarine on January 03, 2002, 21:19:00
Yeh mine say NRE as well. Is the religion section so they can give you your last rites?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on January 04, 2002, 10:12:00
spacemarine,
Yea, that possibility exist I suppose. Padres in the military are able to cover a large spectrum of religions, no matter their own. It‘s done by keeping things non denominational and an aggreement with the religious hierarchy in Canada. Therefore a Rabbi could minister to an RC if he were the only one avail and ya still get to heaven! Besides, they say everyone finds god on their deathbed, and I don‘t think most people are fussy about who‘s he is!

As for the rest, fill in the form and submit it. If nothing happens, (give it time to work, even regs don‘t get theirs by that afternoon!), put in a memo to the Adjt. Make sure you create a paper trail and push it up the chain. These things are part of your standard issue stuff. Most times nothing happens because someone has left the request in a basket and it gets shifted around the office till it‘s lost. We like to ask for ours in a large run. We‘ll wait till Sept-Oct, canvass the Regt, submit all requests at once and voila!, everyone gets ID Disks. Try that.
Title: dog tags
Post by: Airghardt on December 27, 2002, 13:38:00
What information, line by line, goes on the dog tags? An example would be great too.
thanks  :fifty:
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Mike Bobbitt on December 27, 2002, 18:09:00
Service Number
Inits   Last Name
Religion   Blood Type
Cdn Forces Cdn
---------------------
Service Number
Inits   Last Name
Religion
Cdn Forces Cdn

Back:
Do Not Remove
Ne Pas Enlever
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Freddy G on December 27, 2002, 19:02:00
I assume the one they leave on the body is the one with the blood type, correct?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Rider Pride on December 27, 2002, 20:45:00
The top part with the chain should stay with whatever body part is the largest it can attach to...The bottom goes to the supply guys for processing (why I don‘t know)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Michael O'Leary on December 27, 2002, 22:30:00
The bottom half of the dog tags goes to supply because Graves Registration is a G4 (Logistics) responsibility. If the body was handled correctly with a battlefield burial, then that lower half of the dogtag will be accompanied by the details of the burial for later recovery to a military cemetery or repatriation. Having the logistics branch handle this ensures that the medical corps resources are concentrated on the living.

Mike O‘Leary
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Airghardt on December 29, 2002, 22:03:00
thanks,
one more thing are the dog tags stamped or are they engraved, i‘ve seen a bunch engraved, is this correct?  :fifty:
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Michael O'Leary on December 29, 2002, 23:34:00
Mine are stamped, but the lettering is fine enough that it could be mistaken for engraving.

Mike O‘Leary
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Spr.Earl on January 01, 2003, 06:47:00
The old tag‘s were aluminium (go figure).
The one‘s we have now are of steel so they can survive fire etc.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Hoof (Banned) on January 04, 2003, 00:02:00
Uh oh... What if... You dont relly have a religion. I mean my mom says in christian.  But ive never really went to church all that much.  I mean ive read a vee from the bible once in a while, The lord is my sheperd.... Think they‘ll even let me in.. I saw on the news this one kid got kicked out of his scouts or somthin because he idnt have a religion =)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on January 04, 2003, 01:21:00
If you state no religion on the form, your Identity Disks will come back with NRE stamped on them in place of faith. NRE = No Religion Entered. No biggy, you don‘t have to have a certified religion to be in the Forces. Even the atheistic soldier mutters, Oh God, not again, at budget time.  :D
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Harry on January 06, 2003, 22:00:00
The atheistic soldier is also known to mutter Oh/Dear God (I won‘t do this again) when making long distance calls on the porcelain bathroom phone as well... but I digress.

NRE has become very common over the past ten years, signs of the times I guess.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: bossi on January 07, 2003, 08:19:00
Once upon a time, a padre suggested there were no atheists on foxholes ...

When I attended funerals of Second World War veterans from my Regiment, I quickly discovered the old guys could recite Psalms from memory ... not because they were particularly religious, but because they‘d had to do it so many times during the War ...

So, even though I‘m not that religious, I remember my padre‘s words.

And, amusingly enough, we were reminded of the field expedience of carrying a pocket bible (you know - the infamous one that "stops the bullet") ... just in case there was ever the requirement to hold a charge parade in the field (chuckle).

And, one last word - if you‘re dead, and you weren‘t terribly religious, then you probably won‘t worry or care too much about your funeral.  However, if your family or parents were more religious than you, they might appreciate giving you an "appropriate" farewell (in this case, appropriate refers to them, not so much as you).  For the sake of being gracious/altruistic, it doesn‘t hurt to put down your family‘s religion - it gives you manoeuver room later on ...

Here endeth the sermon (chuckle - no disrespect to my brothers who wear the collar - I just thought they‘d enjoy a chuckle hearing me, of all people, extoll the virtues of faith ... wink)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Harry on January 07, 2003, 18:52:00
Bossi,

Was thinking along similar lines.  Many a Navy veteran can recite psalm and verse and tell of moments they shared with the Lord after finding that maybe, just maybe something more than dumb luck saved their Salty behinds.

You hit it on the head.  A wizened old Padre in Cornwallis told us a very similar story.

"We are men, we can drink, we can cuss.  We are expected to commit acts of sin in defence of our beliefs and we can blasphemy God.  But it is our families who stand before him and consecrate their loss".

Didn’t miss a Sunday for 4 years after hearing that, then I followed another path.  Still sticks to this day.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: nbk on March 13, 2003, 16:00:00
Would you get chewed out if you wrote down "Athiest" on your forms? Because I have met some people who have the wrong idea of what an Athiest is. They think Athiests are people who don‘t care about life, worship satan, etc, which I certainly would not want my recruiters thinking...
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: combat_medic on March 13, 2003, 16:17:00
If you‘re a wiccan, satanist, celtic spiritualist, druid or whatever else, it just gets filed under "other" and will be marked as such on your ID disks. It you‘re an atheist, just write NRE=No Religion Expressed, and THAT wil be marked on your ID disks.

They‘re not allowed to discriminate by religion. Unless of couse, you write "KKK" or "white supremist" or something on your forms.  ;)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: gryphon664 on March 13, 2003, 23:08:00
However, an Atheist isn‘t someone who doesn‘t have a religion. Atheism is an actual religion. it‘s a belief that nothing exists
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Illucigen on March 13, 2003, 23:19:00
Im Agnostic (I dont believe "He" exists, nor do I believe "He" doesn‘t. Can‘t say either way), and my religion is stamped NRE.

To be honest, I had thought about putting Catholic on there, for my families sake. But after research, I recognized that in the modern forces, with fears of law suits and human rights laws, in most modern situations the families of victims are given overall say in burial proceedings, excluding where a will or extenuating circumstances prevail.

So Im NRE.
Title: Dog tag details -
Post by: a_user on March 13, 2003, 00:37:00
Whats on the Canadian miltary dog tags these days?  I‘ve heard they‘ve changed in the last couple years but Im suspicious of this claim.

Is it still the standard four lines in the following format?

lastname
first name, middle intial
Hxx xxx xxx
blood type

I have heard they have included MOS now and changed the name formatting, can someone verify this for me and confirm the correct format before I say anything.

Thanks
Title: Re: Dog tag details -
Post by: ~RoKo~ on March 13, 2003, 00:56:00
The format on my 6 month-old ID discs is;

A12 345 678
AJ Bloggins
(religion)   Blood Type
CDN FORCES CDN
Title: Re: Dog tag details -
Post by: DnA on March 13, 2003, 14:51:00
this is what Canadian ID discs(Dog Tags) look like

  (https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic3.picturetrail.com%2FVOL15%2F946086%2F1752922%2F21579901.jpg&hash=044731cbdce3c8f3fb5e98f6a82e1694)
Title: Re: Dog tag details -
Post by: DnA on March 13, 2003, 14:52:00
Quote
The format on my 6 month-old ID discs is;

A12 345 678
AJ Bloggins
(religion) Blood Type
CDN FORCES CDN
I didnt think religion was still put on the ID discs
Title: Re: Dog tag details -
Post by: Fishbone Jones on March 13, 2003, 15:40:00
C‘mon guys. We just went through this at the beginning of January.
Go here:
 http://CdnArmy.ca/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000608

For anyone new (or not), please search the past threads before you post a question. We admire your thirst for knowledge and most of us are willing to give ours in spades. However, some time on your part will save much more on ours. If you still have questions after searching go ahead and ask, but look first and don‘t just post a query to anything that pops into your head without checking. Many of the recent, questioned subjects have already been covered ad nauseum. Some like this, fairly recently. Be resourceful, it‘s a growing, sought after trait in the CF.  :)
Title: Dog Tags
Post by: BestOfTheBest on October 09, 2002, 17:20:00
Do you get dog tags when you are in the reserves?
Title: Do Reservists have ID tags?
Post by: NFLD Sapper on October 09, 2002, 17:58:00
Yes you do.
Title: Do Reservists have ID tags?
Post by: combat_medic on October 09, 2002, 19:15:00
Yes, you‘re supposed to. Although I‘ve filled out the form for them 7 times in 4 years and still haven‘t seen mine.
Title: Do Reservists have ID tags?
Post by: ~RoKo~ on November 01, 2002, 23:49:00
Wow, you haven‘t gotten your ID Discs for 4 years? I put the papers in 3 months ago and they‘re in, just waiting to be picked up when the office is actually open when I‘m on parade.

But, on the other hand I don‘t quite have any winter kit yet, and probably won‘t have any until after this month‘s ex.. I‘m hopping it‘ll be really warm that weekend.  :)
Title: Do Reservists have ID tags?
Post by: PikaChe on November 02, 2002, 00:02:00
^How about you don‘t bet on that?  ;)

I got sized for Goretex stuff, but I doubt they‘ll arrive soon...

And it snowed today! and it‘s only first of november
Title: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: sguido on September 21, 2004, 15:16:38
Here's something to provoke thought:

Given the state of the world today, and the atrocities committed against POW/Hostages by extremist groups, what religion would you want your ID Discs to indicate if something *really* bad happened and you're now a "guest" of such a group?

If you're Jewish, would you put that down, seeing as how it would most certainly give you uncomfortable treatment?

What about Catholic, which may be construed as launching a modern "Crusade" against Islam?

If you're an "Other", or the abbreviation isn't well known, would you take the risk that your captors will research the abbreviation?

If you're an Atheist, would you admit to your captors you don't believe in any God?

Would you get a commercial set for use in 'special' times, where the religion is fully spelt out, providing a little bit of insurance against semi-illiterate captors who may construe unknown initials as being Jewish?

Just curious if anyone's given any thought to this matter...

Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Fishbone Jones on September 21, 2004, 15:52:34
Use  "NRE" - No Religion Entered. It means whatever you want and nothing, one way or the other.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: hiv on September 21, 2004, 16:08:19
I'm a Taoist so I put OD.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Inch on September 21, 2004, 16:12:53
I just ordered a new set of tags today and I put NRE which means No Religion Expressed, or so I understood. Either way, recceguy is right, NRE doesn't mean you don't believe in God, it's just kinda vague which God you believe in if you believe in one at all.

Cheers
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Jamson on September 21, 2004, 16:15:40
I would put Atheist down, thats what I believe in and I don't care what anyone else says, not believing in God doesn't make me a bad person.

*edit* To answer the question given by the original poster: I don't think my captors would care to much what religion I am, if I am fighting against them would it matter?
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: meni0n on September 21, 2004, 16:38:57
I doubt the extremists would know how to read the id tags properly so you don't have to worry about it.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: dutchie on September 21, 2004, 17:00:08
Edited

Having said that, if someone wants to kill me strictly based on my religion, then so be it.

FYI/Unsolicited advice:please do not let this thread degrade into a religious discussion, not that I helped that with my post. The original question is a good one, and one that should be thought through before you indicate your choice on the form.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Beadwindow 7 on September 21, 2004, 17:52:58
Quote
No disrespect to anyone else's own beliefs, but I belive my religion forbids me to deny my God. That is, I cannot put NRE, as that amounts to denying I am a Christian

Using NRE on your tags doesn't deny God. I myself believe in God, and in the Bible, but have no association with an organized religion. I chose to have NRE put on my tags.

NRE just means that on your tags it doesn't acknowledge an association to a known religious group. It doesn't deny it. Now if you want to have that as a means so they can identify what kind of ceremony or prayer to say if, knock on wood it doesn't happen, you should die in the field, then put your religious association.

As far as treatment of POW's due to the religion based on the tags, well, to tell you the truth, I don't think the 3 letters on that piece of metal will make a difference. If you're taken by a group that differentiates based on that, the likelyhood is that they'd treat anyone the same. Badly
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: dutchie on September 21, 2004, 18:12:41
"Using NRE on your tags doesn't deny God."
I have my opinion/beleifs, you yours. This belief is true of me and me alone. I am not comfortable putting NRE on MY tags, but wouldn't assume another is 'denying God' by putting it on theirs....perhaps I was a little unclear. As well, I consider my beliefs to be fairly private, and as such I am regretting my first post a little....but I digress.

I don't think the 3 letters on that piece of metal will make a difference.

neither do I, sadly.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: CFN. Orange on September 21, 2004, 18:14:38
Here's something to provoke thought:

Given the state of the world today, and the atrocities committed against POW/Hostages by extremist groups, what religion would you want your ID Discs to indicate if something *really* bad happened and you're now a "guest" of such a group?

If you're Jewish, would you put that down, seeing as how it would most certainly give you uncomfortable treatment?

What about Catholic, which may be construed as launching a modern "Crusade" against Islam?

If you're an "Other", or the abbreviation isn't well known, would you take the risk that your captors will research the abbreviation?

If you're an Atheist, would you admit to your captors you don't believe in any God?

Would you get a commercial set for use in 'special' times, where the religion is fully spelt out, providing a little bit of insurance against semi-illiterate captors who may contrue unknown initials as being Jewish?

Just curious if anyone's given any thought to this matter...



Seeing as though i am jewish, heres the thing. If im serving my country in the armed forces,   the only reason I have that on my tags is so i can be identified and properly buried in accordance with my religious beliefs. Even though i dont fully believe in the religion i have been raised by my parents to believe, in it and for their sake i put it on my tags. If i was ever a POW, and for the soul reason i was to be tortured or killed because i was jewish, so be it. Ill stand up for my beliefs and for my country and its just the way the world works for me. If i had it any other way i wouldn't be defending my right to thought freedom belief or expression
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: dutchie on September 21, 2004, 18:32:46
I believe in separating one's religion from soldiering. For instance, I don't where a cross while in uniform, as I feel that religious identification does not belong on a uniform. My religion has ZERO bearing on the performance of my duties. To take it one step further, say you were in Iraq, on patrol, wearing a noticable Jewish star around your neck. This, IMHO, would seriously hinder your ability to interact with the locals in a meaningful way.

But religion being the tinder box of discussion as it is, I respect other's opinion regarding this. Some feel the need to display their religious markings, whether it be a cross, pagan star, or WWJD? bracelet. I don't happen to share this need.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Scotty on September 21, 2004, 19:22:37
It's a sign of the times when we are discussing what religion to put on tags so our captors may be less likely to kill us based on religion.   Whatever happened to the geneva convention? :(  I guess that's just the enemy we're up against. :cam:

Also, why do you need a religion on your id tags?
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: CFN. Orange on September 21, 2004, 19:49:50
so they can respect your religious burial rights
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Beadwindow 7 on September 21, 2004, 20:54:07
scm77, first off, religion is put on identity disc as is it is prescribed in CFAO 26-4,

http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/026-04_e.asp

in Accordance with the requirements to wear them by the Geneva Convention.

In Addition, having the religion on them aids in the CO's responsibility in "arranging for a chaplain of the appropriate religious denomination to ascertain the wishes of the NOK concerning religious services", as dexcribed in Annex F of CFAO 24-5, FUNERALS, BURIALS AND GRAVES REGISTRATION.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/024-05_e.asp


Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on September 21, 2004, 21:19:34
As much as I only go to church for weddings and funerals, I have the religion in which I was baptised on my tags. Always have and always will. Not that I agree with the politics surrounding my baptised faith, but thats just how it is.

In this new war against terrorism, our enemy simply wants you dead becauses of where you are from, and that is the west. Even muslims who support the west are also on the receiving end of the firing line.

Recently an Australian citizen of Iraqi origin who returned to Iraq as a muslim cleric was infact taken hostage, and a ransom of $A40,000 was paid. he was beaten and then released. All because he produced an Australian passport when captured.

Being a Canadian isnt going to protect you in that neck of the woods, nor is wearing a blue beret. We are all targets there.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: CheersShag on September 21, 2004, 21:27:23
"MUS"

I'm not sure what'd happen to me?!
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Ex-Dragoon on September 21, 2004, 21:48:34
On a side note....what do they do for those of Pagan or Wiccan faiths? What is etched into their ID discs?
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: CheersShag on September 21, 2004, 21:53:59
http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/026-04_e.asp


Quote
3.     The religious denomination of the member will be abbreviated as
follows:

Anglican ........................... ACC
Atheist, Agnostic, or no religion .. NRE
Baptist ............................ BAPT
Christian Science .................. CS
Greek Catholic ..................... GC
Greek Orthodox ..................... GO
Jewish ............................. JEW
Latter-Day Saints .................. LDS
Lutheran ........................... LUTH
Muslim ............................. MUS
New Apostolic Church ............... NAC
Other Protestant Denomination ...... OPD
Pentecostal ........................ PENT
Presbyterian ....................... PRES
Roman Catholic ..................... RC
Salvation Army ..................... SA
Unitarian Universalist ............. UNI
United Church ...................... UCC

4.     A member claiming a religious affiliation other than those shown above
will be classified Other Denomination (OD).


I guess they'd be OD
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Beadwindow 7 on September 21, 2004, 22:08:21
Quote
On a side note....what do they do for those of Pagan or Wiccan faiths? What is etched into their ID discs?

Hadn't thought of that before. Might be interesting to find out how many members of the forces fall under OD, and what groups would be included in that. The CFAO pretty much covers every organized religious group
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: CheersShag on September 21, 2004, 22:32:08
Well if you say OD, you can pretty much cover everything.

It'd be interesting if they actually had to come up with abbreviations for every religion.
Snake Handlers
Seventh Day Adventists
Zoroastanism
Bahai

Man..it could go on.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Code5 on September 21, 2004, 22:47:39
I didn't realise that the Salvation Army counted as a religious group, I thought of them as a volunteer orgaization that happened to have religious affilations.

 out of curoisty, what do Canadian ID tags look like?  I've only seen American ones through pop culture. 
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: CheersShag on September 21, 2004, 22:55:13
Oh the salvation army is most certainly a religious group, a large one. They have ranks, where the officers are ministers etc.
Initially they were started by a Mormon(?) minister in London, waging war on poverty, I believe.
I've got a close friend whose father is an officer in the Salvation Army, their structure and hierarchy is actually kind of neat, you should take a look at it.
They've got really good marching bands too.

And CDN id tags:
http://safetytags.com/photo.php?type=product&size=norm&photoId=32
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Inch on September 21, 2004, 22:57:12
Here's a pic of my tags, I blocked out the service number and name for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: the 48th regulator on September 21, 2004, 23:05:52
I would put RC for Roman Catholic.

It is our job to let the infidels decide what to put ont THEIR dog tags in case WE capture them.

the cup is always half full.

tess
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: pbi on September 21, 2004, 23:40:04
This is, indeed, a hot topic. As one poster pointed out, the real purpose of the religious notation on the ID disc is to ensure proper spiritual care when unable to speak   and, ultimately, handling of remains. It's a purely individual question, based on how you trade off care of your spiritual issues against the possibility of being tortured or killed for your religious faith. But, the tone of some of the posts here warns us how uncomfortable many Canadians are with the idea of faith.


While typical WASP, middle class Canadians with a liberal, middle of the road upbringing are generally quite happy to either have no religious beliefs to speak of, or to compartmentalize their "religion" into something they put into a box and take out for Christmas/Easter/etc ("CREASTERS" some chaplains call them...), an increasing number of Canadians today come from cultural backgrounds in which faith is an integral part of their life and informs everything they do. It instructs their code of morality, their concept of justice, and perhaps even their attitude towards war. This includes, in particular, Muslims and non-European Catholics. IMHO if this is not what your faith does, why bother?

I am an Anglican (not really a "Protestant" but in fact a kind of "Lost Catholic") but my wife is a devout RC. Although I am a rather wretched excuse for a Christian, in our 21 years of marriage I have attended Catholic churches with my family all over this country (and in the US). They are almost always full, and to an increasing extent the congregations are made up of   new Canadians. Now, going to church does not, IMHO, make you a Christian, but I argue for a strong correlation between attendance and faith.

Anyway, in the end, your faith is your business, but let's not belittle the power and importance of anybody's beliefs, especially for those of us who must face the dangers and spiritual/moral challenges of our profession of arms.   And that old saying "There are no atheists in foxholes" has been repeated over and over by soldiers for a couple of generations now, so there may just be something to it. Cheers.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Acorn on September 21, 2004, 23:42:27
Sally Ann is certainly NOT Mormon. It's possibly Methodist in origin. The Mormons originated in the US, and believe that Christ came to the Americas after the Ressurection. The Book of Mormon is an interesting read, though unlike the Bible, there is not a shred of corroboratiing historical record.

Acorn
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: CheersShag on September 21, 2004, 23:50:18
Quote
Sally Ann is certainly NOT Mormon. It's possibly Methodist in origin. The Mormons originated in the US, and believe that Christ came to the Americas after the Ressurection.

Right you are, got my M's mmm-ixed up.
I was debating whether it was Mormon or Methodist..
Alright i'm going to research this and come back with a good answer.

Edit: William Booth (the founder) was a former methodist who found his calling preaching to the degenerates of Londons poorest regions when he realized that the worshippers at Westminster and St Paul's didn't bloody well want them stinking up their beautiful abbeys.
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: meni0n on September 22, 2004, 01:12:50
I got SR written on mine. What the hell is SR?
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: SHELLDRAKE!! on September 22, 2004, 02:20:08
Maybee you shouldnt worry about what your tags say because these days its not your religion that will save you, its the country you represent :cdn: :cdn: :cdn:
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Inch on September 22, 2004, 07:15:32
They also say Cdn Forces on your tags, but I doubt that would save you in some cases.

Cheers
Title: Re: Identity Disc Religion: What would you put down?
Post by: Beadwindow 7 on September 22, 2004, 09:33:03
Quote
Maybee you shouldnt worry about what your tags say because these days its not your religion that will save you, its the country you represent

Some people may say it IS their religion that will save them. Either way, It can be an issue. It's a members personal decision as what they are putting there, and ultimately, how does he/she want to be cared for in the event that funeral arrangement are required. And believe me, if you're taken in places like Afghanistan, representing Canada won't save you
Title: Dog Tags
Post by: elizabeth on December 14, 2004, 12:43:23
Hey, I heard a rumor that the chain on the dog tags are supposed to break if you are getting strangled by them. Does anyone know about this? I always thought that they would be a hazard in the field. Thanks.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Kyle Burrows on December 14, 2004, 12:49:19
I dont know if they were designed specifically for that but yes the chain on the dog tags do come apart if pulled on hard enough...
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Cooper on December 14, 2004, 12:58:00
On the subject of dog tags. Why is the issuing of them so screwed up (for the reserves). I've been in a year, and filled out the paperwork twice and have yet to receive them... yet a buddy of mine got them after 2 weeks of being in.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: RedSash on December 14, 2004, 13:05:44
Check with your OR...sounds like the paper work wasn't pushed past the "out" basket.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Proud Forester on December 14, 2004, 13:42:53
Well it is very case by case, they dont do a run of them unless there are enough to do, so they may be waiting for more to do a run. Just a thought
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Scott on December 14, 2004, 13:50:08
I was in the Mo for three years and never got a set.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Matt_Fisher on December 14, 2004, 14:24:48
Hey, I heard a rumor that the chain on the dog tags are supposed to break if you are getting strangled by them. Does anyone know about this? I always thought that they would be a hazard in the field. Thanks.

It's somewhat of an urban legend.  What I would never recommend to anyone is to have any sort of para-cord around your neck, ie. dog tags, keys, id card, etc.  That stuff is 550 lbs. test strength, and if you get hung up you'll end up with some pretty decent red marks around your throat.  In the off chance that you ever do engage in hand to hand combat, then that stuff is a definite liability.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Scott on December 14, 2004, 14:31:54
It's somewhat of an urban legend.   What I would never recommend to anyone is to have any sort of para-cord around your neck, ie. dog tags, keys, id card, etc.   That stuff is 550 lbs. test strength, and if you get hung up you'll end up with some pretty decent red marks around your throat.   In the off chance that you ever do engage in hand to hand combat, then that stuff is a definite liability.

Quite true. In fact, the wearing of any jewellery is dangerous. A ring can damn near take off a finger or leave you hanging by one, a watch can lose you your hand, I am sure the medics on this site have seen some of the same horror pics going through their training as I have. The wearing of jewellery is limited for a reason. Dog tags are allowed, for a reason, but I would hesitate to wear anything that could lose me any part of my body. There have been stories of Paramedics, who wear there stethoscopes around their necks, being choked by combative patients, could be an urban myth, regardless, it is reasonable to believe that the same could be done to you with your dog tag chain or a piece of paracord.

Matt, by the way, love your signature.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: 48Highlander on December 14, 2004, 14:44:40
.....it is reasonable to believe that the same could be done to you with your dog tag chain or a piece of paracord.

No, not the dogtag chain.  When I was a typical young private foolishly wearing his dogtags to the bars, I managed to lose a pair when a rowdy local attempted to use them for just that purpose.  I'm not sure what the test strength on the chain is, but it's not enough to choke you.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Scott on December 14, 2004, 14:57:10
Good enough then.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good way to qualify your remarks, go piss off the locals to test/prove these theories ;D
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Proud Forester on December 14, 2004, 15:01:12
Or just go to brothers....(OS referense)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on December 14, 2004, 15:09:00
Hey, I heard a rumor that the chain on the dog tags are supposed to break if you are getting strangled by them. Does anyone know about this? I always thought that they would be a hazard in the field. Thanks.

??!

It will 29 yrs in January with two Armies, and this is the first time I have heard such a rumour! Bloody helll! The chain is cheap smaller grade bathtub plug chain, not stainless, either, as it will make the back of your kneck gray, depending on what contractor got the job. Its sold to Defence by the km!

If you beleive this I got some arid land in the Simpson Desert for ya too.

Like any small cheap chain it will break. US stock standard I-Disc chains is used here, and this stuff has been around for 64 years.

As for using 550 lbs shroud line, maybe there is an LCF factor, or something, who knows. I have even seen 550 cord have the guts removed, and the outer part used to cover the chain to stop the metal rubbing off on your neck, and I have seen 550 cord used plain ( only when I was in the CF, never here), but this could cause ya problems ( yes it sure could choke ya), firstly they collect body odour, and stink, and secondly it burns off and melts, possibly leaving you unidentified if you get fried in an armourered vehicle or aircraft. At least CF tags are stainless steel, as they used to be aluminium until about 1990.

I wear one tag on my left boot   ;D BTW that a very dead brown snake, one of the most deadliest in the world.

Regards,

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Rider Pride on December 14, 2004, 18:58:34
Yummy, I love debridement injuries....

thats what its called when someone pulls the skin off their finger because they left their ring on....

From what I have seen, they hurt ALOT.

When I was a young trooper, I heard the same tale. While there is some truth into the fact that the chain is designed to be strong, yet easy to break, it is cheap and easily accessable material.

Follow Wes' advice and heed mine. If you do put on 550 cord, no more then half the length of your chain, and only enough to cover the area of metal to skin contact at the back of your neck.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: HollywoodHitman on December 14, 2004, 19:22:01
What you can do with the 550 cord (Wes mentioned it) is simply take out the guts. What you can do then is run the length of the 550 cord, just short of where the chain goes into the dog tag. When you do that, take a lighter and seal the ends along the dog tag chain. This keeps the noise down, the grey stuff off your neck and it still will allow the chain to break if it becomes hung up on something. Worked for me, although I must confess that now I just wear the damn things when I need to, and take 'em off when I get home.

TM
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Britney Spears on December 14, 2004, 20:14:02
Am I the only one who just never bother to wear them? I mean, they were cool for the first 2 days, but really, the novelty doesn't extend far beyond that.  I'm not sure if that's against the dress regs or not, guess I'll find out one day, but mine have been just in my pocket for years, and The ID inspections on parade are only to make sure you have them, noone ever told me they had to be around my neck all the time.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: aesop081 on December 14, 2004, 20:29:00
When i was army, nobody ever wore them and most of us couldnt remember where they were.  Now that i am aircrew however, i wear them every day so i dont lose them.  As per flying orders and such we are required to wear them while flying.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Inch on December 14, 2004, 20:29:54
Am I the only one who just never bother to wear them? I mean, they were cool for the first 2 days, but really, the novelty doesn't extend far beyond that.   I'm not sure if that's against the dress regs or not, guess I'll find out one day, but mine have been just in my pocket for years, and The ID inspections on parade are only to make sure you have them, noone ever told me they had to be around my neck all the time.

I can't speak for the army, but the 1 CAD flying orders state that all pers on CF aircraft must wear them next to the skin. I wear mine when I go flying, I take them off when I get home. As far as I know all the boys at work wear theirs too.

aesop, you posted while I was typing, glad to see I wasn't the only one to read the CADORDs.  ;D
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: aesop081 on December 14, 2004, 20:34:01
Hemmm......Inch:

Shame on you ! didnt you read the memo, 1 CAD is no longer to be refered to as 1 CAD............it is now 1 Cdn Air Div !!!

LOL......... ;)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Inch on December 14, 2004, 20:38:27
Of course I did, old habits die hard.  :-[
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: aesop081 on December 14, 2004, 20:39:58
i figured as much......

my flight yesterday wasnt cancelled......for a change......i think its because we finaly had a different first officer, Capt ************ is bad luck !!
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Britney Spears on December 14, 2004, 20:42:20
Hmm, good thing I'm not in the air force then....

Hopefully, there arn't too many RSMs reading this thread, no need to give them any ideas......
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: aesop081 on December 14, 2004, 20:44:09
lol...sorry...didnt mean to do that.......... :P

Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Rider Pride on December 14, 2004, 21:47:47
Hmm, good thing I'm not in the air force then....

Hopefully, there arn't too many RSMs reading this thread, no need to give them any ideas......
Sorry Britney, you blonde bimbo... :-*

Army troops are to wear them next to skin as well. A rule only really enforced overseas.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Britney Spears on December 14, 2004, 21:52:25
Damn, I knew there was a rule for it.

Quote
A rule only really enforced overseas.

Heh, good thing I slipped through the cracks then.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: the 48th regulator on December 14, 2004, 22:10:08
No, not the dogtag chain. When I was a typical young private foolishly wearing his dogtags to the bars, I managed to lose a pair when a rowdy local attempted to use them for just that purpose. I'm not sure what the test strength on the chain is, but it's not enough to choke you.

HEHEHE man oh man I don't care what people say, but times don't change.

Same thing happened to me in one of the down town bars.   hehehe luckily i had the rest of the gang with me to light the pair up like a Christmas tree!!!

Found the tags on the floor and pocketed them, used plain drain plug chain, as Wes talked about, to make a new chain.

cheers 48th ya brought back some funny memories.

dileas
tess

Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: IPC10 on December 16, 2004, 11:55:17
Quote
A rule only really enforced overseas.


Excuse my english but ya gotta wear 'em to jump.

Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: 48Highlander on December 16, 2004, 12:04:22
HEHEHE man oh man I don't care what people say, but times don't change.

Same thing happened to me in one of the down town bars.  hehehe luckily i had the rest of the gang with me to light the pair up like a Christmas tree!!!

Found the tags on the floor and pocketed them, used plain drain plug chain, as Wes talked about, to make a new chain.

cheers 48th ya brought back some funny memories.

dileas
tess



Glad I could make you smile :)  My "experience" was in Owen Sound, but you're right, some things never change. 
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Da_man on December 16, 2004, 13:04:21
For some reason they gave me a second pair the other day... Anyway i never wear them.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Proud Forester on December 16, 2004, 13:21:48
Glad I could make you smile :)   My "experience" was in Owen Sound, but you're right, some things never change.  



LMAO, i just dont know why, but it doesnt surprise me ;D
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Marauder on December 16, 2004, 22:12:49
The only time I really ever bother is when I'm actually in the field. Never know when some fuckie private is gonna ND in your direction on a live range.

That, and I wore them every day I was out doing range clearance. I figured if someone "found" a 500 pounder or something similarly large, I wanted the medics to know what type of blood to pump into me.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: CFN. Orange on December 16, 2004, 22:17:46
ive recieved 2 pairs ...1st one they misspelled my name...the second pair... the changed my blood type...8 months later im still waiting for them
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: gryphon664 on December 16, 2004, 23:16:08
I recieved my first pair right after basic training.

I recieved a second pair with my permanent ID card. dunno why
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Northern Touch on December 16, 2004, 23:19:54
I guess I was lucky.  My unit actually mailed them up to Meaford for my while I was on course.

Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on December 17, 2004, 03:30:03
Hey, if these vintage WW2 German I-Discs could talk!

Recently found by Russian POISK volunteers in and around Volgograd (formerly Stalingrad).

After 60+ years they have been unearthed.

May these unkown warriors from country far far away, in a war, not so long ago   RIP


Wes

PS -  Its not hard to figure where the CF got the one piece I-Discs from.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on December 17, 2004, 03:35:41
Back view of same.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: ABN RFN on December 17, 2004, 03:46:23
I wear my discs all the time now as well, just to avoid losing then when you need them. Every time we go for a jump, the JM's inspect us to ensure we are wearing them and have removed or taped down all jewelry / watches for safety reasons. I have seen guys grounded by the JM for not having ID discs more than once. Crummy deal, easier to just leave them on.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: bossi on December 17, 2004, 05:43:08
I don't know if somebody higher up has been reading this thread, but ... very recently it came down the chain (no pun intended) for everybody to check and make sure their ID disks were up to date
(apparently, there are some people still wearing ID disks with their SIN number instead of their SN ... which kinda makes me wonder when was the last time these wastes of rations did anything "really Army" but ... let's not get me started on THAT rant ... chuckle - suffice it to say, it makes sense to have random ID disk checks rather than wait until the DAG ...).

As an aside, it's a relief to hear somebody with field experience mention that trick about "gutting" some para cord in order to make them less noisy (and, if they get too "grungy" it's simpleto just throw them in the wash or replace the cord - whichever is easier).

Another aside - I have to thank my tentmate Nathan for introducing me to those tiny/micro LED lights that you can clip onto your tags - it's absolutely worth its' weight in gold to always have a flashlight handy, 24/7 (and the light colour can be a fashion statement ... you should have seen "disco night" in tent B8 ... chuckle!!!)   I've got a good quality LED which I can wear in the shower (from the PX), but I've also seen cheaper/disposable ones for only one dollar at "A Buck or Two" (i.e. great stocking stuffers ...)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: ABN RFN on December 17, 2004, 06:11:07
You are just chalk full of Christmas gift ideas lately! Hilarious.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: bossi on December 17, 2004, 06:37:33
You are just chalk full of Christmas gift ideas lately! Hilarious.

Hmmm ... and you're just chock full of para puns (i.e. chalk) ... !
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Spr.Earl on December 17, 2004, 06:46:48
Hmmm ... and you're just chock full of para puns (i.e. chalk) ... !
I'll just roll out of this one.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Inch on December 17, 2004, 07:02:19
I don't know if somebody higher up has been reading this thread, but ... very recently it came down the chain (no pun intended) for everybody to check and make sure their ID disks were up to date
(apparently, there are some people still wearing ID disks with their SIN number instead of their SN ... which kinda makes me wonder when was the last time these wastes of rations did anything "really Army" but ... let's not get me started on THAT rant ... chuckle - suffice it to say, it makes sense to have random ID disk checks rather than wait until the DAG ...).

Besides the SIN, you're supposed to get new ones if you've still got the aluminium ones instead of the stainless steel tags.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: my72jeep on December 20, 2004, 23:55:47
I allways wear mine as a young sapper I remember being charged by RSM Spruce (4cer) for not wearing them during a suprise inspection.1 days pay or two weeks extra duties.(I took the extras)
funny some of you are have trouble getting them I misplaced mine last year and reported it to the Meat Heads (MP's) had two replacement sets in to weeks just in time to find the misplaced ones.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Bomber on December 21, 2004, 10:18:20
I felt like I was on dog tag spam, I got 6 pairs in about 2 weeks, 3 years ago, I also received a slew of the name tags for the garrison dress.  I figure these things were all floating in a depot from when I joined and in a massive reshuffle and possible an act of god, some supply guy decided to actually forward something to me that was actually mine.  I am still waiting for a new set of CADPAT name tags, I ordered them about a year ago on line from the CFSU Ottawa site, send an enquiry and was told that I am only entitled to 3 tags, which must have came from a batch held together with spit, dreams, and hope, cause they all delaminated about a month after putting them on the shirts.

"No, Goretex socks stay here, if I give you a pair of size 13's, there will only be 185 pairs of size 13' left, that takes the total down to only 2599 pairs on the shelves.  They are better here than on your feet.  Eyes off of that poncho liner, keep your hands clapping"

Clothing stores blows my mind sometimes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: another-Bloggins on December 21, 2004, 17:16:14
The dog tag chain is ment to snap when enough force is applyed. If you put para cord totally around it well...not good. A WO used a guy in my regiment to demonstrate why this was a bad idea. This Cpl happened to have paracord all the way round and happily came out in front to show off his tags. He was then pulled around in about 6 different directions by the WO to prove the point. I have seen any of the guys with paracordaround the tags since.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Dingbat on December 21, 2004, 17:53:05
Was that the bridge build w/ the SSM and Cpl M-V?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on December 21, 2004, 18:00:59
The dog tag chain is ment to snap when enough force is applyed. If you put para cord totally around it well...not good. A WO used a guy in my regiment to demonstrate why this was a bad idea. This Cpl happened to have paracord all the way round and happily came out in front to show off his tags. He was then pulled around in about 6 different directions by the WO to prove the point. I have seen any of the guys with paracordaround the tags since.

You don't replace the chain with paracord. Cut a length of cord slightly shorter than the chain. Pull the guts out of it, and thread the chain through the tube. The chain will still separate if need be.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: bossi on December 21, 2004, 18:02:01
Was that the bridge build w/ the SSM and Cpl M-V?

Huh?   I thought this discussion was about "dog tags"/ID disks ...
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: marshall sl on December 21, 2004, 18:13:51

"No, Goretex socks stay here, if I give you a pair of size 13's, there will only be 185 pairs of size 13' left, that takes the total down to only 2599 pairs on the shelves.   They are better here than on your feet.   Eyes off of that poncho liner, keep your hands clapping"

Clothing stores blows my mind sometimes

Storesman Storesman, watch out for the Storesman!!!  Spins a lie any size, just to protect his supplies!! Watch out for the Storesman!!!
( Sung to the tune   Spiderman, Spiderman ) ;D
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Dingbat on December 21, 2004, 18:23:38
Huh?   I thought this discussion was about "dog tags"/ID disks ...

Sorry...I was refering to 2FERSapper's post about a WO dragging a Cpl by his paracorded dogtags.  Back on track now...
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: another-Bloggins on December 21, 2004, 22:38:38
Was that the bridge build w/ the SSM and Cpl M-V?
Yup
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: canuck#1 on December 22, 2004, 01:11:19
In the CF do u have 2 have dog tags? and can u have your own made or do u have to have the CF make them? sorry if this is a stupid question i m not in the army yet



http://www.jrotcdogtags.com/
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: aesop081 on December 22, 2004, 01:13:12
I would not get these ( from the site you posted) because who knows what they are made out of..........
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Dingbat on December 22, 2004, 01:52:45
When you join, just go to the Orderly Room and ask for the sheet for ID Discs.

Fill out all the important info (name, s/n, religion, blood type) and in 6-8 wks, they should be in.  Well...not sure about 6-8wks but they'll come in eventually.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: canuck#1 on December 22, 2004, 02:47:01
Thanks :salute: :cdn:
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: canadian on December 28, 2004, 18:34:38
hello Best users

I'm Richard

And i'com from the Netherlands.

Question for which is the bottom dug, at the underside of the canadian identities plate.

Richard

Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on December 28, 2004, 20:00:32
Sorry Richard,

Don't quite know what you mean. Can you expand a little please?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: canadian on December 28, 2004, 20:34:10
'have one question around the canadian dogtag

Ask where is the groove for at the underside of the id plate.

An thankyou fot the replay.recceguy

Richard
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on December 28, 2004, 20:39:58
It's so when they break the tag in half, they can run a chain through it, and keep it with any others collected. The top half stays with the body, the bottom half gets collected.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: canadian on December 28, 2004, 20:46:20
Thankyou for the information.

Richard
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 01, 2005, 07:50:22
Hey, when did ever they start to put the blood group on the back of the tags as pictured above? Even my old alloy tags from the mid 1970s have not got this.

When I left the CF 10 yrs ago, I had the stainless ones with SN, but nothing on the back with the exception of the 'DO NOT REMOVE' in both languages. My early alloy tags only had it in english.

The above ones look alloy rather than stainless, and appear to be maybe even older than my 1976 issue ones. I do know the CF has had this design since 1951 or there abouts.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Chop on January 01, 2005, 11:04:47
I have heard that Canadian tags are popular because they where in a movie?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Not a Sig Op on January 01, 2005, 11:09:26
Wolverine them in the movie X-Men.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: aesop081 on January 01, 2005, 14:08:14
Hey, when did ever they start to put the blood group on the back of the tags as pictured above? Even my old alloy tags from the mid 1970s have not got this.

When I left the CF 10 yrs ago, I had the stainless ones with SN, but nothing on the back with the exception of the 'DO NOT REMOVE' in both languages. My early alloy tags only had it in english.

The above ones look alloy rather than stainless, and appear to be maybe even older than my 1976 issue ones. I do know the CF has had this design since 1951 or there abouts.

Cheers,

Wes

I just got issued a new set a few weeks ago and they do not have the blood group on the back...it is on the front, 3rd line on the right...top portion only.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: George Wallace on January 01, 2005, 14:39:49
Both my Dog Tags from 1980 (with SIN) and those of today (with S/N) have my Blood Type on the third line next to my Religion.   I believe that my tags in the 1970s were the same.  In both cases, the Blood Type is only on the top half of the Dog Tags.  The bottom half (Break off part) does not have the Blood Gp (as it is useless then   ;D ).

GW
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Chop on January 01, 2005, 15:27:26
My first set in 1973 looked the same as now except for they where aluminum and had our SIN instead of our military number, we did not have military numbers in the 70's just used our SIN, that started in the mid 60's. Also there was no blood groop on the back. Quite a few guy's purchased gold dog tags when serving in Cyprus and Egypt.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: canadian on January 01, 2005, 15:43:28


hello

I found breaking were this Canadian identification plate in an old uninhabited Canadian house in 1988 what they.   I would not know how old this identification plate am. De owner of the dogtag was an air force man RCAF the id plate is magnetic

cheers Richard And from the Netherlands.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: pbi on January 02, 2005, 05:00:00
Quote
A ring can darn near take off a finger or leave you hanging by one, a watch can lose you your hand, I am sure the medics on this site have seen some of the same horror pics going through their training as I have.

I no longer wear a wedding ring for that reason. Years ago, as Adjt of 1PP, I was the last one out of Bn HQ Bldg to get over to the drill hall for a unit briefing by the CO. I was in a hurry, pushed the front door of the old WWII HQ shack open, and jumped down all thee stairs at once. I got swung halfway around by my left arm, and looked back to see that my left ring finger (with my wedding band) was hooked on an old nail sticking out of the door. The weight of my body and twisting motion  had caused the ring to slice right down to the bone. A trip to the emergency ward later, and a scar tissue "wedding ring" that I still have, I decided not to wear a ring any more. Ironic that after years of juming out of APCs, trucks and helicopters, I did myself in on an office door. Jewelery is always potentially dangerous. Cheers.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Hatchet Man on January 02, 2005, 05:27:02
I wear my ID disks all the time now after losing three sets, I kept misplacing them when I took them off.  It's handy cause I put the spare key to my car on the chain (it has a big rubber thing on the end so it doesn't make any noise), after repeatedly locking my keys in my car.  Now I don't worry.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Navalsnipr on January 02, 2005, 22:54:30
Being an electronic technician, we never wear dog tags or any metallic objects due to the fact that we work around high voltages at sea. For me that would be 440 Volts 3 Phase AC or 40,000 Volts DC. You can just imagine getting tagged with something like that.

Additionally the majority of personnel remove any rings as they tend to get caught on the hatches on the way down in rough seas and like pbi indicated, you can easily do serious damage to one of your digits real quick.

As a sailor, when we go to the fire school for 3 days for fire fighting refresher, before we head into the trainer the instructors always tell us to remove all metal objects from our person which include dog tags and piercing!! Even though we are wearing bunker suits just like any civie fire fighter, the heat easily transfers though the bunker suit and can burn quickly.

I normally keep mine in my wallet so I at least have them with me. When I work on the equipment, the wallet goes in my locker.



Title: Identity Discs
Post by: Ranger Rick on January 17, 2005, 13:30:20
Does any one know a web site were I can order good looking CF look alike ID discs? (dog tags)
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Saorse on January 17, 2005, 13:33:31
http://safetytags.com/viewProduct.php?proProId=21
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: ctjj.stevenson on January 17, 2005, 14:06:08
One question for you warrant officer, do you really need a pair of dogtags. You would not be permitted to wear it in uniform because it was not issued, therefore your only us for them would be to wear them in civies.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Ex-Dragoon on January 17, 2005, 14:33:12
One question for you warrant officer, do you really need a pair of dogtags. You would not be permitted to wear it in uniform because it was not issued, therefore your only us for them would be to wear them in civies.

Not to be rude, but I would recomment to save your money for something more important.

Actually that was very rude. While I don't see the need for the cadet warrant officer to have a set of dog tags if he wants to spend money on them I don't think we should be telling him what he can or cannot buy if he wants to wear them while in civillian dress.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Navalsnipr on January 17, 2005, 14:42:37
There were actually some Cadet Courses that were issued Dog Tags.

Back in the late 80's a friend of mine completed the Para course and was issued them prior to the "J" Stage.  Additionally, I was issued my first pair as a Cadet back during the same time period when I went on CFE (CF Europe), which was an exchange to 3 RCR.

I guess if they figure the course a Cadet is going to go on is dangerous, then it would then warrent the issue of Dog Tags.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Inch on January 17, 2005, 14:56:56
One question for you warrant officer, do you really need a pair of dogtags. You would not be permitted to wear it in uniform because it was not issued, therefore your only us for them would be to wear them in civies.

Not to be rude, but I would recomment to save your money for something more important.

Is that a fact. So in that case no cadet would be able to wear combats on FTX's since they weren't issued? How about crosses? They're not issued but you're permitted to wear them.  Sounds like you need to relax a little.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Saorse on January 17, 2005, 15:05:32
Agreed. The Warrant has all the rights in the world to purchase dog tags.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: armoured soon on January 17, 2005, 15:34:58
just to clarify with everyone. 

inch... crosses are religious and are allowed to be worn by both the CF and cadets under QR&O's and CATO's.  As for cadets in combats, they are not supposed to wear them, unless they are issued, and now with the new uniforms, cadets that buy uniforms from Canadian Peacekeeper (CFGear) they are not permitted to wear a head dress or rank with the uniform, because they look to much like the real thing and it is hard to distinguish between a soldier and a cadet.  As for cadets getting issued tags, they still do that for the para course and a few exchanges.  but like everyone said, we are not to dictate how he spends his money.   i hope this anwswers any questions.

cheers,
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: ctjj.stevenson on January 17, 2005, 15:41:24
Actually, I came back to change my statement ... I did do the same as a cadet myself - buy a pair of dogtags. I did not want to be rude however, and I am asking pardon if it seemed like it.

As for cross and other jewlery, from my knowledge of the cadet uniform, no, they are not permitted to were it. The only articles that could be worn are any medic-alert insingia, wrist watch, and ear-rings for female cadets. I will review the uniform instruction, however, seeing that I've worked with people that always are looking for proof about anything having to do with the uniform, these are the people that have always told me that other types of jewlery or religious symbol that are not obligatory are not permitted.

I will come back after I review the uniform instructions.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Saorse on January 17, 2005, 15:44:10
I did not think wrist watches were allowed. Nifty little fact if they are!
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Scott on January 17, 2005, 15:47:16
just to clarify with everyone.  

inch... crosses are religious and are allowed to be worn by both the CF and cadets under QR&O's and CATO's.   As for cadets in combats, they are not supposed to wear them, unless they are issued, and now with the new uniforms, cadets that buy uniforms from Canadian Peacekeeper (CFGear) they are not permitted to wear a head dress or rank with the uniform, because they look to much like the real thing and it is hard to distinguish between a soldier and a cadet.   As for cadets getting issued tags, they still do that for the para course and a few exchanges.   but like everyone said, we are not to dictate how he spends his money.     i hope this anwswers any questions.

cheers,

I think you missed the point that Inch was trying to make. Read the post he quoted again, then his response and you may pick up what he was trying to lay down.

Do you have a link to reference your info from?

As for wearing combats, I find your statement to be completely contradictory. On one hand you say that Cadets are not supposed to wear combats unless they are issued, then you say that if they decide to buy combats that they must not wear head dress or rank insignia. See the confusion here? Which one is it?
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: my72jeep on January 17, 2005, 15:57:40
Army cadet League web site sells them for about $12
www.armycadetleague.ca
go to kitshop
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Ranger Rick on January 17, 2005, 16:08:38
Wow, sorry I did not mean for this to turn into such a heated argument. I just like them and would like a set to wear. I'm sorry if some one does not like that. Thank you for that link by the way, its perfect.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Get Nautical on January 17, 2005, 18:31:54
Your allowed to wear them when in uniform because its a piece of identification, regardless of being issue or bought, at least thats why we were allowed to wear them at camp (added side note, was under the Cbt. shirt and had to tuck the ball chain as much as possible under the collar)
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Saorse on January 17, 2005, 20:24:06
Wow, sorry I did not mean for this to turn into such a heated argument. I just like them and would like a set to wear. I'm sorry if some one does not like that. Thank you for that link by the way, its perfect.

No problem! Considering a set for myself.  ;)
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Inch on January 17, 2005, 21:03:05
Wow, sorry I did not mean for this to turn into such a heated argument. I just like them and would like a set to wear. I'm sorry if some one does not like that. Thank you for that link by the way, its perfect.

Don't be sorry, you asked a valid question and got jumped on for asking it which is why the Mods and myself responded the way we did.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: mandal on January 17, 2005, 21:23:34
As for cadets in combats, they are not supposed to wear them, unless they are issued
No, we are allowed to wear combats even when they are not issued. Cadets are authorized to wear CF Combats at no cost to the public. Can't post a link, but that is pretty much straight out of the CATO's almost word for word
Canadian Peacekeeper (CFGear)
CPGear
they are not permitted to wear a head dress or rank with the uniform, because they look to much like the real thing and it is hard to distinguish between a soldier and a cadet.  
We are instructed to wear our headdress and rank insignia to help distinguish us from the "real thing"
just to clarify with everyone.  
Please clarify with facts, and stuff you know...........makes everyones life easier...........
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: condor888000 on January 17, 2005, 22:08:33
No, we are allowed to wear combats even when they are not issued. Cadets are authorized to wear CF Combats at no cost to the public. Can't post a link, but that is pretty much straight out of the CATO's almost word for word

Close, now exactly word for word.

Quote from: CATO 55-04
CF combat clothing. Cadets are authorized to wear CF combat clothing during Sqn survival exercises when authorized by the Sqn CO. A headdress (the wedge or blue beret with the Air Cadet hat insignia, widebrimmed tan summer hat or toque) and also cadet rank slip-ons shall be worn with CF combat clothing. CF combat clothing shall not be taken to CSTC. The Sqn CO shall ensure that all cadets wearing   military camouflage clothing or civilian look-alike camouflage clothing while participating in Sqn survival exercises can be easily identified in the field through the use of coloured vests as required. Air Cadet headdress, hat insignia and rank slipons shall not be worn with civilian combat pattern clothing (CF look-alike) or any civilian clothing;

We are instructed to wear our headdress and rank insignia to help distinguish us from the "real thing"
Close to being true. As the quote was misinterpreted this response is slightly incorrect. The actual quote is...

cadets that buy uniforms from Canadian Peacekeeper (CFGear) they are not permitted to wear a head dress or rank with the uniform, because they look to much like the real thing and it is hard to distinguish between a soldier and a cadet.
So what he said was true from a certain point of view(he he, go Obi-Wan!). The Frontenac(sp?) crap is not CF combat clothing, therefore the headdress and slip-ons are not to be worn.

All reading please note that 55-04 is an Air cadet document, I can't find anything in the army cadet CATO's but they should be similar.



Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 17, 2005, 22:16:33
One question for you warrant officer, do you really need a pair of dogtags. You would not be permitted to wear it in uniform because it was not issued, therefore your only us for them would be to wear them in civies.


Pull your head in pal. Its a free world.

Who are you to dicate how a citizen can spend his money. Even if he wants to wear US dog tags, so be it, and frankly who really cares.

Hey WO McWatt, if ya want a set of Aussie ones, I mail them to ya for nothing. You'll just need to scrounge some chain.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: PViddy on January 17, 2005, 22:39:01
Darn

somone beat me to the punch on the CATO's quote  ;)  :salute: .  However i did read the part about Cadets not being allowed to wear CF issued clothing and had a good chuckle.  WRONG.

As for wearing them in dress uniform on a typical parade night.  Not allowed according to the cadet dress regs.  On a FTX weekend, don't think it would be a huge deal, however common sense prevails when it comes to safety (ie. tags getting caught on somthing, yes i know they are made to break off but still...it's cadets)  so for some training you may need to pull em.   Hey, i bought some when i was a cadet, go nuts if you don't have to pay a ton of money for them. good luck.


PV
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Ranger Rick on January 18, 2005, 00:02:30
Pull your head in pal. Its a free world.

Hey WO McWatt, if ya want a set of Aussie ones, I mail them to ya for nothing. You'll just need to scrounge some chain.

Cheers,

Wes

Really??? (Obviously you said it.) OK, how do I order though, I'm guessing Ill pay and order to a site but ship them to you instead of me so its not as much S&H. So if you want to PM me with details I'd love to.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 18, 2005, 00:04:08
PM inbound. I got a spare set, and don't worry about the shipping.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: armoured soon on January 18, 2005, 10:28:38
FSgt.   Just to let you know your instructors are leading you on, and going against what their region says.  At the CO's, Supp O's and Admin O's conference we were told that combats are not allowed to be worn by cadets, and if they buy the ones from peacekeeper you are not allowed to wear a head dress or rank, weather it be on a brassard or not.  And as for cadets wearing CadPat that is not allowed, that is a CF uniform not a cadet uniform.  So to let you, i do know my facts...  and i knew what inch was talking about, I didnt mean to come accross like I was bashing him.

I am not saying i agree or disagree with what i am saying, i am just saying that is what we were instructed.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: armoured soon on January 18, 2005, 10:30:47
And how is wearing a head dress going to help distinguish you from the real thing?  You wear the capbadge of your affiliated unit.  By wearing a head dress you look more like the real thing.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: mandal on January 18, 2005, 10:47:38
Apart from saying "Royal Canadian Air Cadets" on the capbrass, it says "cadet" on the slip-ons. And most likely being with a group of younger people, I don't think joe civvy would have a hard time distinguishing us from res or reg personel. If they do, it's their fault not not paying closer attention to the insignia we wear.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: mandal on January 18, 2005, 10:51:17
FSgt.     Just to let you know your instructors are leading you on, and going against what their region says.   At the CO's, Supp O's and Admin O's conference we were told that combats are not allowed to be worn by cadets
If we are not allowed to wear combats, then why are they issued to us on course? why does it say we are authorised to wear them in the CATO's?

edit:

Quote from: CATO 55-04
CATO 55-04
CF combat clothing. Cadets are authorized to wear CF combat clothing during Sqn survival exercises when authorized by the Sqn CO. A headdress (the wedge or blue beret with the Air Cadet hat insignia, widebrimmed tan summer hat or toque) and also cadet rank slip-ons shall be worn with CF combat clothing. CF combat clothing shall not be taken to CSTC. The Sqn CO shall ensure that all cadets wearing  military camouflage clothing or civilian look-alike camouflage clothing while participating in Sqn survival exercises can be easily identified in the field through the use of coloured vests as required. Air Cadet headdress, hat insignia and rank slipons shall not be worn with civilian combat pattern clothing (CF look-alike) or any civilian clothing;

It's all right there.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Scott on January 18, 2005, 12:52:58
FSgt.     Just to let you know your instructors are leading you on, and going against what their region says.   At the CO's, Supp O's and Admin O's conference we were told that combats are not allowed to be worn by cadets

You should have stopped with that statement. Instead you go on to say:

and if they buy the ones from peacekeeper you are not allowed to wear a head dress or rank, weather it be on a brassard or not.

Again it's contradictory. If you were told that Cadets are not allowed to wear combats then that should be it, no? If someone says that they aren't allowed to wear combats then says that if they buy some from Peacekeeper that they just can't wear head dress or insignia then that would sort of supercede the first would it not?

Please clarify.

Mandal, thanks for the CATO quote, good on you.

All, please read the Conduct Guidelines (http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,24937.0.html) and familiarize yourselves with the part titled "Qualifying Information" If you're going to post info here be ready to back it up as Mandal did. If you don't, be prepared to have it shot apart.

Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: armoured soon on January 18, 2005, 13:03:14
the combats you get from peacekeeper are a knock off.  they are not CF.  so if a cadet buys them they are not allowed to wear a headress or rank.  and cadets are not allowed to wear the new CadPat issue dress at all.  that is what i was trying to say
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Scott on January 18, 2005, 13:04:33
And do you have a link to some qualifying information?

You should also try to be a little more clear.

Quote
FSgt.   Just to let you know your instructors are leading you on, and going against what their region says.  At the CO's, Supp O's and Admin O's conference we were told that combats are not allowed to be worn by cadets

You said "not allowed to be worn by Cadets" so what if it's "knock off" combat clothing or the real thing or a pair of Brit DPM, you said it wasn't allowed then contradicted yourself. I think you've missed the point here.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: armoured soon on January 18, 2005, 13:06:35
i will ahve to look.  i am just repeating what we learned at our conference this year.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: old medic on January 18, 2005, 14:15:56
This is a thread that got off topic...

I think there may be some confusion here between old combats sold off to the cadet org,
knock off cadpat (can cav, cp gear),
and real cadpat which is copyrighted and a controlled item.

Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Garbageman on January 18, 2005, 18:20:54
If we are not allowed to wear combats, then why are they issued to us on course? why does it say we are authorised to wear them in the CATO's?

It's all right there.


Take the CATOs word for it.  If CATOs say you can do it, then you can do it.  Word of mouth and rumours are irrelevant.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: old medic on January 18, 2005, 19:42:08
Just to further clarify "combats" ...

The cadet org has and distributes the older OD combats.
They are making an attempt to find a cadet pattern field uniform.
The cadet org officially frowns upon the use of CADPAT by cadets.


I refer you to Army Cadet bulletin 04-008 from the Regional Cadet Support Unit (Pacific)
which says (link to pdf document at bottom) ;

" ........   Cadets may continue to purchase new or used military-style field dress from surplus stores or use suitable civilian clothing.  Some Corps Sponsor Committees have elected to help cadets acquire military pattern field dress. While the use of the old style olive drab "combat" clothing is acceptable, in such cases, cadets must also wear an armlet (brassard) that has the RCAC badge attached.  Cadet Rank and Affiliated Unit shoulder flashes also may be attached to this armlet.

The Army office of the RCSU (Pacific) continues to strongly discourage the use of Canadian Forces CADPAT (including imitation) by Army Cadets.  This pattern of clothing makes it difficult to distinguish cadets from members of the regular and reserve force and may cause confusion when CF members are present. CADPAT is a restricted clothing pattern intended solely for CF personnel and it is issued only to members of the CF (including CIC). Allowing cadets (or Civilian Instructors) to wear "acquired" CADPAT is a violation of CF policy. Allowing cadets to wear military style clothing that closely resembles CADPAT also would be a violation of the spirit of that policy.   ......... "


http://www.regions.cadets.ca/pac/armcad/pdf/ACB%2004-008%20TEMPORARY%20CLOSUR.pdf

Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Sharpey on January 18, 2005, 23:46:40
So they must wear an armband even in the old OD's eh. Good to know, thanx for that post.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: C/CWO.Serednicki on January 19, 2005, 00:18:59
You can buy the "Dog tags" directly from the league...they have a form on the army cadet league site
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Kyle Burrows on January 19, 2005, 00:24:19
I can safely say the only things that appeal to me from the ACL kit shop are the drill canes.

and that "Bearly" A cadet...I mean what the hell is up with that...first it was an air cadet...now it looks like they just shrunk the CANCAV and made bear suits...
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 19, 2005, 00:39:52
Really??? (Obviously you said it.) OK, how do I order though, I'm guessing Ill pay and order to a site but ship them to you instead of me so its not as much S&H. So if you want to PM me with details I'd love to.

Your tags are enroute via AIRMAIL, so give em about 8-11 days or do to get to ya.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Kyle Burrows on January 19, 2005, 01:54:52
Isnt Wes a nice guy? ;D
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 19, 2005, 01:56:56
Just trying to help a bloke out.  :)
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Ranger Rick on January 19, 2005, 09:57:32
Isnt Wes a nice guy? ;D

Actully, yes very much so.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: my72jeep on January 19, 2005, 13:04:54
Just to further clarify "combats" ...

The cadet org has and distributes the older OD combats.
They are making an attempt to find a cadet pattern field uniform.
The cadet org officially frowns upon the use of CADPAT by cadets.


I refer you to Army Cadet bulletin 04-008 from the Regional Cadet Support Unit (Pacific)
which says (link to pdf document at bottom) ;

" ........     Cadets may continue to purchase new or used military-style field dress from surplus stores or use suitable civilian clothing.   Some Corps Sponsor Committees have elected to help cadets acquire military pattern field dress. While the use of the old style olive drab "combat" clothing is acceptable, in such cases, cadets must also wear an armlet (brassard) that has the RCAC badge attached.   Cadet Rank and Affiliated Unit shoulder flashes also may be attached to this armlet.

The Army office of the RCSU (Pacific) continues to strongly discourage the use of Canadian Forces CADPAT (including imitation) by Army Cadets.   This pattern of clothing makes it difficult to distinguish cadets from members of the regular and reserve force and may cause confusion when CF members are present. CADPAT is a restricted clothing pattern intended solely for CF personnel and it is issued only to members of the CF (including CIC). Allowing cadets (or Civilian Instructors) to wear "acquired" CADPAT is a violation of CF policy. Allowing cadets to wear military style clothing that closely resembles CADPAT also would be a violation of the spirit of that policy.     ......... "


http://www.regions.cadets.ca/pac/armcad/pdf/ACB%2004-008%20TEMPORARY%20CLOSUR.pdf


At least your region set some rules on cadpat the Ontario branch of The Army Cadet League sells cadpat knock offs for cadets to use at the LHQ.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: armoured soon on January 19, 2005, 13:13:42
Ontario has the same set of rules.  and thank you old medic.  that is what i was trying to say.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: old medic on January 19, 2005, 13:17:13
Ontario has the same set of rules.  and thank you old medic.  that is what i was trying to say.

Anytime. I don't have anything to do with the cadets, never did.  I just let search worm run on the subject when all this came up yesterday.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Love793 on January 22, 2005, 07:13:53
Back to the tags though,

Make sure the info on them is correct.  Also, on the bottom line of Cdn set is sais "Cdn Forces Cdn", you probably don't want to have that there (hint hint), replace it with "Cdn Cadet Cdn" or leave it alone.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Frankex on January 23, 2005, 23:12:01
i used to have a pair of dog tags. they were American though. i think i had my name, rank, religion, and i think blood type. one of them broke off on an Field ex i was on. not a good sign lol :cdn: :salute:
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Miss C on January 24, 2005, 22:00:49
I had dog tags once..
they Were really nice.. But I think i lost them..
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Zedic on January 24, 2005, 22:44:57
I can safely say the only things that appeal to me from the ACL kit shop are the drill canes.

and that "Bearly" A cadet...I mean what the heck is up with that...first it was an air cadet...now it looks like they just shrunk the CANCAV and made bear suits...
Do NOT purchase a drill cane from the Army Cadet League, if they're the drill canes I'm thinking of they have no weight to them and are more like a pimp cane.   The "Bearly" A cadet ... I won one 3 years ago at a draw my Regiments Kit Shop held, I've got it around somewhere .... don't really care much for it.

On the topic of this thread, I also had dog tags at one point ... stopped wearing them because I didn't really feel they were necessary (they were American style).  Also they were pretty beat up after a summer at Blackdown.
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: madchicken on February 04, 2005, 08:17:18
Still kinda in the subject of dog tags, is there any order the info is in on CF dog tags, like on mine I have my corps name and unit number then my name, then my corps' saying, then my city.  So it looks like this.

903 BCD
J. Stanton
Quansem Ilep
Kelowna BC

Sorry I just thought the way I descirbed it was kinda confusing
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: my72jeep on February 04, 2005, 12:54:22
OK here go's the dog tag lay out

top one
sn            111 222 333
name        IM Blogns
rel/blood    RC    O/RH/NEG
               CD FORCES CD

bottom one same but no blood type
on back of top one
             
              DO NOT REMOVE
              NE PAS ENLEVER

Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: armoured soon on February 04, 2005, 13:18:39
CDN FORCES CDN
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: my72jeep on February 04, 2005, 14:38:45
Yes sorry darn N's got left out
Title: Re: Identity Discs
Post by: Love793 on February 05, 2005, 18:07:08
CDN FORCES CDN

Indicates that one is a member, for Cadets, change it to CDN Cadet CDN.
Title: dog tags
Post by: silentstalker(Banned) on February 15, 2005, 21:36:13
i am interested in dog tags.  i have onE here that i got at a antique store and  i was wondering if people can tell me what the info on it means. they are the current issue style used today if that helps.

serial number (wont post it here)
name (wont post it hare)
NP        0/RH/POS
CDN FORCES CDN

are these real dog tags (based on the order of information) and what does the thrid line mean.  is the person's unit not supposed to be on the tags?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: George Wallace on February 15, 2005, 21:41:57
You have his SIN which dates them as being pre 1992 (?)(Prior to the issue of Service Numbers).
You have his Name
You have his Religion and then his Blood Type
Lastly you have that he is in the Canadian Forces

GW
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Inch on February 15, 2005, 21:42:59
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/026-04_e.asp

I'm not sure what NP is, it's not recognized under the CFAO above.

The other thing on the third line is the blood type.

Units are not on your tags since most people get posted every 4 years and it would be a pain in the arse to get new tags every 4 years. Most people wear the same ones for the majority of their careers unless they lose them and get a replacement set.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: George Wallace on February 15, 2005, 21:46:31
NP could have been for "None Professed" or something similar in order to state that this person prefered not to state his religion.

GW
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Cataract Kid on February 15, 2005, 22:40:42
You have his SIN which dates them as being pre 1992 (?)(Prior to the issue of Service Numbers).
GW

Prior to the SIN #, there were Svc # on the dog tags as well.

Not sure if thats what you meant George, but from what I got from his original post was that it says "SN #####" on the tags that he has, and that could mean he has present or "pre SIN #" tags.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: George Wallace on February 15, 2005, 22:45:22
Blakey

Those would probably have been different tags....the discs made out of Bakalite (SP).  I think that he is talking about the aluminium ones we had prior to the steel ones we have now, which had SIN.  Only one way to find out: Did the number start with a Letter or consist of three sets of three numbers?

GW
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Cataract Kid on February 15, 2005, 23:04:46
Not quite sure but, as I recall my father's dog tags started with a "SH" then it was followed by numbers. He got in in '58.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on February 15, 2005, 23:07:54
i am interested in dog tags.   i have onE here that i got at a antique store and   i was wondering if people can tell me what the info on it means. they are the current issue style used today if that helps.


serial number (wont post it here)
name (wont post it hare)
NP            0/RH/POS
CDN FORCES CDN

are these real dog tags (based on the order of information) and what does the thrid line mean.   is the person's unit not supposed to be on the tags?

Edit: - Re-clarified

OLD Type - With SIN on alloy tags (top one) and DO NOT REMOVE in English only, later ones also had it in French

123 456 789
IM BLOGGINS
RC A/RH/P
CDN FORCES CDN

123 456 789
IM BLOGGINS
RC
CDN FORCES CDN


With CURRENT type -current SN like so on stainless tags with DO NOT REMVOE in both languages
 
A12 345 678
IM BLOGGINS
RC A/RH/P
CDN FORCES CDN

A12 345 678
IM BLOGGINS
RC
CDN FORCES CDN

If I remember right the bottom one does not have the blood group, only the top portion.

Blank tags (either stainless or older alloy types) can be purchased on the INet.


Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on February 15, 2005, 23:12:39
NRE (No Religion Entered\ Espoused) can also be stamped in the Religion spot.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Da_man on February 15, 2005, 23:20:28
I have RC on mine too... anyone know what it means?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Cataract Kid on February 15, 2005, 23:23:49
^^^ I hope your Roman Catholic, or someone has made a grievous error... ;D
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: George Wallace on February 15, 2005, 23:25:20
Not quite sure but, as I recall my father's dog tags started with a "SH" then it was followed by numbers. He got in in '58.

Ah yes! - preUnification tags.

Wes

The bottom portion didn't need a Blood Gp, as if it was broken off, it usually meant that the owner was deceased and didn't need a transfussion anymore.

I also noted that you mixed the SIN and SN on your tags.   The SIN on top would have been the older of the two, and the SN at the bottom would be the current example.   As Blakey said, prior to SIN (prior to 1967) we also had Service Numbers that began with two Letters.

We have more info on other threads.

GW
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: George Wallace on February 15, 2005, 23:26:57
I have RC on mine too... anyone know what it means?

Are you Really Canadian?

GW
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Da_man on February 15, 2005, 23:27:59
^^^ I hope your Roman Catholic, or someone has made a grievous error... ;D

Im atheist   :-\   oh well...
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Cataract Kid on February 15, 2005, 23:28:26
^^^ LMAO!!!   ;D...sorry


[edit] seriously though, id get it fixed[/edit]
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on February 15, 2005, 23:37:40
Im atheist   :-\   oh well...

If it doesn't bother you, don't worry about it. At least you should get the last rights. It can't hurt.   ;) Who knows? Maybe your misguided. Nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution! ;D
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Da_man on February 15, 2005, 23:40:28
It doesnt really bother me.. ill be dead anyway why should I care?   :blotto:
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Allan Luomala on February 16, 2005, 00:07:31
I believe NRE stands for "No Religion Expressed"..... I hope that's what it stands for, as that's what is on mine.

Allan
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on February 16, 2005, 00:13:27
Allan,

Amounts to the same thing. Seen it addressed two or three ways. Same on mine.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: silentstalker(Banned) on February 16, 2005, 01:02:32
so on the current issue ones the sin number is on the top and the serial number is on the bottom?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Cataract Kid on February 16, 2005, 01:05:22
so on the current issue ones the sin number is on the top and the serial number is on the bottom?
Negative, current have Service Number on top portion and bottom portion.

[edit] here is an "example of current CDN Military Dog Tag" Ive photochoped this one[/edit]
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Aerobicrunner on February 16, 2005, 11:41:37
CFAO 26-4 -- IDENTITY DISCS

GENERAL
1.     The use of identity discs to identify military casualties is an
established international custom. The purpose of identity discs and the
requirements for wearing them are outlined in the Geneva Convention and
STANAG 2939.

ISSUING AUTHORITY
2.     The issuing of identity discs to members of the Canadian Forces (CF)
is the responsibility of NDHQ/NDIS (National Defence Identification
Services).

ISSUE
3.     Identity discs and chains will be issued:
     a.   on initial issue of a CAFIB 20 to members of the CF, Primary
          Reserve, Supplementary Ready Reserve and Cadet Instructors List;

     b.   when issued a CAFIB 20 on re-enrolment in the CF or Reserve
          Forces if the member does not possess a current disc;

     c.   on legal change of name;

     d.   as required by personnel attached to the CF, exchange personnel,
          and trainees from foreign countries; and

     e.   for replacement in case of loss or damage.

4.     Units shall request identity discs directly from NDHQ/NDIS, and shall
provide the Service number, initials and surname, religion (see Annex A,
paragraph 3), blood group, and RH factor for each member, ie E45 160 247 AR
Smith NRE A/RH/POS. For personnel on loan or attached to the CF, exchange
personnel and trainees from foreign countries, units shall provide the
Service number of the individual and the country the individual represents. (This is wear the Cdn Forces Cdn would change to SLOVENIA or whatever if the ID disks get issued by CF).

5.     The identity disc will be enclosed in form DND 366, Identification
Disc Receipt Envelope, and forwarded by NDHQ/NDIS to the unit concerned.
Receipt of the disc shall be acknowledged by the member on form DND 366,
which shall be placed on the document file of the member. Detailed
instructions for processing an individual for an identity disc are
contained in A-SJ-102-001/AG-000, Identification Handbook.

6.     A new identity disc shall be requested when there is any change in the
information shown on the disc or if the original disc is lost or damaged.

WEARING7.     Identity discs shall be retained by members at all times and worn
around the neck and next to the skin:
     a.   by members serving on active duty, at sea, or beyond the North
          American continent, or engaged in flying duties, or on a military
          exercise involving travel by Service aircraft; and

     b.   by other members when directed by the commander of a command.

DISPOSITION OF IDENTITY DISCS OF CASUALTIES8.     The identity disc is scored by a horizontal groove so that the lower
portion may be detached. If the wearer becomes a fatal casualty, the lower
portion of the disc shall be detached and returned to NDHQ with the
member's personal documents. The chain and upper section of the disc shall
not be removed from the body.
DISPOSITION OF IDENTITY DISC ON RELEASE9.     The identity disc of a member being released may be retained by the
member or returned to the releasing unit and destroyed.
(C)                                     1605-26-4 (NDIS)
Issued 1989-07-07
INDEXIdentification
 


ANNEX A -- INFORMATION TO BE SHOWN ON IDENTITY DISCUPPER HALF OF DISC
1.     The upper half of the identity disc will be stamped with:
     a.   Service number;

     b.   initials and surname;

     c.   religion (see paragraphs 3 and 4);

     d.   blood group and RH factor;

     e.   CDN FORCES CDN or the name of the country the individual
          represents (see paragraph 4 of this order); and

     f.   DO NOT REMOVE/NE PAS ENLEVER on the reverse side.

LOWER HALF OF DISC

2.     The lower half of the disc will be stamped as for the upper half
except that the blood group and RH factor and DO NOT REMOVE/NE PAS ENLEVER
will be omitted.

Click Image To Get Expanded View

RELIGIOUS DENOMINATIONS AND ABBREVIATIONS

3.     The religious denomination of the member will be abbreviated as
follows:

Anglican ........................... ACC
Atheist, Agnostic, or no religion .. NRE
Baptist ............................ BAPT
Christian Science .................. CS
Greek Catholic ..................... GC
Greek Orthodox ..................... GO
Jewish ............................. JEW
Latter-Day Saints .................. LDS
Lutheran ........................... LUTH
Muslim ............................. MUS
New Apostolic Church ............... NAC
Other Protestant Denomination ...... OPD
Pentecostal ........................ PENT
Presbyterian ....................... PRES
Roman Catholic ..................... RC
Salvation Army ..................... SA
Unitarian Universalist ............. UNI
United Church ...................... UCC

4.     A member claiming a religious affiliation other than those shown above
will be classified Other Denomination (OD).

Issued 1989-07-07

Ch 8/94

Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on February 16, 2005, 18:13:26
Negative, current have Service Number on top portion and bottom portion.

[edit] here is an "example of current CDN Military Dog Tag" Ive photochoped this one[/edit]


Not to confuse anyone, but I was demostrating the difference and I should have clarified more, thats all.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Cataract Kid on February 16, 2005, 18:54:02
Aero, im a little confused here..what was your point? ???
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on February 16, 2005, 19:19:46
He's quoting the CF's official policy on ID discs. That's all. It SHOULD answer any questions about content or use and put this thread to rest (again). Too bad we don't get more of this at the beginning of threads. It would stop alot of the stupid rumour and conjecture that comes out of some people.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Inch on February 16, 2005, 19:37:21
He's quoting the CF's official policy on ID discs. That's all. It SHOULD answer any questions about content or use and put this thread to rest (again). Too bad we don't get more of this at the beginning of threads. It would stop alot of the stupid rumour and conjecture that comes out of some people.

Check out reply #2, courtesy of me. A CFAO reference link you shall find.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on February 16, 2005, 19:44:24
I know!!   ;D C'mon Inch, I'm trying to make a point. Sheesh :P Now I'm going to lock it.
Title: Dog tags
Post by: infamous_p on February 25, 2005, 00:31:29
weird question.. but what material are the ID discs made out of?

stainless steel? tin?
Title: Re: Dog tags
Post by: old medic on February 25, 2005, 00:36:27
As has been answered many times on many other dog tag threads,
they are stainless.

Please use the search feature before starting new threads on old topics.
Title: Dog Tags
Post by: Cdt Pte. Albano on April 02, 2005, 01:32:34
where is the best place or website to get custom made dog tags? What information is written in the dog tags?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: infamous_p on April 02, 2005, 01:35:59
where is the best place or website to get custom made dog tags? What information is written in the dog tags?

http://www.dogtagsinc.com

canadian tags have your service number, religion, and blood type
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Cdt Pte. Albano on April 02, 2005, 01:43:35
Do you know a site that sells the custom Canadian style dog tags?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Sheep Dog AT on April 02, 2005, 02:02:14
What do you want custom on your tags?  Although to be honest I've wanted to get mine gold plated.  2 VP Gangsta beotch.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: TCBF on April 02, 2005, 02:03:57
Why do you need dog tags? If you die with a realistic pair of fakes, you will just send the system into hyperspin for nothing.   

Tom
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Cdt Pte. Albano on April 02, 2005, 11:49:35
I do not know why I want them, I just do.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Canadian Sig on April 02, 2005, 15:02:51
Just noticed today that you can buy the blanks (tags) at the Canex.   :cdn:
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Target Up on April 02, 2005, 15:14:26
On a similar thread, anyone know of a place to get the gold miniatures, like from Cyprus back in the day?  I had a set, lost 'em somewhere, and would like to replace them...any  clues?

CHIMO,  Kat
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Acorn on April 03, 2005, 01:33:37
The gold shops in the Damascus souk still do them. If you know anyone on Danaca you can probably get them done.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Get Nautical on April 05, 2005, 18:22:47
This topic has been done before, maybe not the same questions, but...
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,26830.0.html
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: atticus on April 05, 2005, 20:04:01
What do you want custom on your tags?  Although to be honest I've wanted to get mine gold plated.  2 VP Gangsta beotch.

Yeah, everybody needs their bling bling.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: foxtwo on April 10, 2005, 21:57:57
You guys get Dog Tags issued when you're in the CF right?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: aesop081 on April 10, 2005, 21:59:32
You guys get Dog Tags issued when you're in the CF right?

Yes
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: foxtwo on April 10, 2005, 22:00:22
So what is exactly engraved on it in order?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: aesop081 on April 10, 2005, 22:03:28
So what is exactly engraved on it in order?

Top HALF


1st line : service number
2nd line: initialns, last name
3rd line  religion, blood type
4th line: DCN FORCES CDN



Bottom half

same minus blood group



Remember that they are made of stainless steel not aluminium which is important
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: George Wallace on April 10, 2005, 22:04:24
So what is exactly engraved on it in order?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,26830.0.html

This is a topic already covered.   I am sure by now you may have guessed that many of your questions have already been answered somewhere here and with some patience and the use of the Search Function, you will find the answers and many more.  

Papke had already given this link, only two or three posts before your post.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Cdt Pte. Albano on April 27, 2005, 16:30:24
I saw a special RCAC dog tag. do you know anything about this. If so can you tell me a website or place where I can get them from.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: TCBF on April 27, 2005, 18:09:44
Give it up.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: George Wallace on April 27, 2005, 18:14:45
TICK! TICK! TICK!

 ::)

Try here...... http://www.ebay.ca/
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Cdt Pte. Albano on April 27, 2005, 18:52:02
Why should i give it up? do you have a problem with me getting them or what? stop getting on my case about having custom dog tags. I didn't ask for your opinion.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on April 27, 2005, 18:57:12
Enough. You've had plenty of info. Find more here.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,26830.0.html

If that's not good enough try google.
Title: Dog tags?
Post by: see on May 31, 2005, 16:11:56
Do we get dog tags and a military ID when we go for BMQ, or only after were finished BMQ/SQ
Title: Re: Dog tags?
Post by: swanita on May 31, 2005, 16:15:03
You will definitely get a ID before or just as starting your course as you'll need that.  As for the dog tags, if you've filled out the required form, it could take a few days or longer....as with everything, it depends.  I'm only speaking for the reserves as i would hope the reg force would get that done much quicker.
Title: Re: Dog tags?
Post by: Island Ryhno on May 31, 2005, 16:19:26
Umm longer actually, I think you get the tags and ID in week 4 or 5, maybe even later. Stops wankers who quit after day 2 from getting them.  8)
Title: Re: Dog tags?
Post by: Steve on May 31, 2005, 16:46:09
Unless you're Clint Eastwood who is smoking a cigar after killing 4 enemies single handedly ... don't wear your dog tags outside of your shirt, you'll look retarded or like some sort of tough guy wannabe.
Title: Re: Dog tags?
Post by: Fishbone Jones on May 31, 2005, 18:46:18
The question's been answered. You'll get them, when you get them. Some in a couple of weeks, some longer depending on your local supply and admin chains. We've been over all this before.... Want to know more? Do a search.
Title: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 21, 2006, 21:32:31
I don't know if this is just for decorative dog tags or they actually did this for the WW dog tags too. But do the WW dog tags have that little notch at the bottom of the tag? like the dog tag in this link:

http://www.armydogtags.com/FormatWWII1.jpg

If they did, what was it for?
and do they still have that in the new kind of dog tags you guys have now?

thanks for the help
Nick
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: N. McKay on January 21, 2006, 21:44:17
I'm afraid I don't have anything to offer about the notch, but this link is to a diagram showing what's contained on current-pattern ID discs:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/images/CFAO0026.GIF

The disc is one piece, but it's scored halfway down to allow the lower half to be broken off.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: SF2 on January 21, 2006, 21:58:18
****GROSS EXPLANATION AHEAD*****

I heard about this a long time ago, and I don't know if this is confirmed or not, but I was told that the notch in the old tags was this - Post battle, when forces were collecting bodies, they would take one disc for records, and the other tag would be place in the dead's mouth, with the notch between the two front teeth - then one would kick the jaw closed, lodging the tag in the dead's mouth.  That way, the tag would not be lost, and would later be matched with the tag collected for records.

A quick google search yielded similar, but not so vulgar stories  http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=notch+in+dog+tags&meta=
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 21, 2006, 22:33:10
whoa, that's pretty brutal just to keep the dog tag with the body.

i read that they put computer chip things i.d. disks now on one of the google sites.
i don't know if it's true or not, but if it is do they do that with the Canadian i.d. disks?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 21, 2006, 22:51:11
whoa, that's pretty brutal just to keep the dog tag with the body.


Brutal? Well Nick, thats the reality of the consequences of war, and life in the real world. That notch on the WW2 vintage US tags is exactly for that purpose mentioned. There is nothing glorious about death or dying. Dog tags are NOT worn for the Look Cool Factor. On the job, I wear three, two around my neck, and one in my boot.

Here is a pic of my Australian 'I Discs', and some WW2 German ones which I have collected. The German soldiers wearing these tags were killed in Stalingrad, and did not make it home. The German tags are similar to the current CF ones, so there is no doubt where the CF got the idea from. The CF have used their current design since the Korean War. The Germans have used their design since WW1, and still use this design now.

Regards,

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 21, 2006, 23:08:46
Back view of those German tags...
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Gramps on January 21, 2006, 23:11:34
****GROSS EXPLANATION AHEAD*****

I heard about this a long time ago, and I don't know if this is confirmed or not, but I was told that the notch in the old tags was this - Post battle, when forces were collecting bodies, they would take one disc for records, and the other tag would be place in the dead's mouth, with the notch between the two front teeth - then one would kick the jaw closed, lodging the tag in the dead's mouth.  That way, the tag would not be lost, and would later be matched with the tag collected for records.

A quick google search yielded similar, but not so vulgar stories  http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=notch+in+dog+tags&meta=


Although this is a common belief it is incorrect heres the link.....

http://www.snopes.com/military/notch.asp
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Not a Sig Op on January 21, 2006, 23:16:36
i read that they put computer chip things i.d. disks now on one of the google sites.
i don't know if it's true or not, but if it is do they do that with the Canadian i.d. disks?

There are no computer chips, it's just a stamped piece of steel.

And it's the chain that keeps the tag with the body... that's why they're on a steel chain... one tag stays with the body, one is taken to keep track of the KIAs. On Canadian tags, you break them in half, they're square, with the same information printed on the top and bottom.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 21, 2006, 23:27:55
Good find Sig!

Another myth busted about the tooth groove, but that still does not explain some US KIA pics from WW2 which I have seen with the tag in the mouth. Although the original design was not intended as a tooth groove, it may have been sued as such anyways.

That bit about the 365 beads and 52 beads on the chain almost had me on the floor. What people are told and believe these days does not amaze me anymore.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: geo on January 22, 2006, 00:32:33
when I joined in 70, the disks were made out of stamped aluminium.
but those were replaced in the mid 80s (?) by identical ones made out of Steel
Something to do about the fact that Aluminium melts at a lower temperature & the forces desire to keep it's records accurately :)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 22, 2006, 00:42:41
Good find Sig!

Another myth busted about the tooth groove, but that still does not explain some US KIA pics from WW2 which I have seen with the tag in the mouth.

could you post the pics?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: big bad john (John Hill) on January 22, 2006, 00:47:09
could you post the pics?
As this is a public site, there is no need to publish photos like these.  Use some common sense!
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 22, 2006, 00:57:07
As this is a public site, there is no need to publish photos like these.  Use some common sense!

sorry, your right. I never thought that one through. That would be extremely disrespectful for the families of the victim and the victim him/herself.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 22, 2006, 05:59:28
could you post the pics?

Mate as I said, ther is nothing glorious about death or dying. Just take a moment and think what you have said. Even if I had them, out of respect for these soldiers who gave their all (and they did), I would not post them. I do remember seeing them in a book, or on a run of film if I remember correctly.

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: 0tto Destruct on January 22, 2006, 10:21:40
I remember seeing in 'A Midnight Clear' a scene that might explain the belief about the whole tag in the mouth thing.

I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it (great film by the way), but a section (well, half-section by then) carry their dead friend out of enemy territory back to their own lines. They take him to the Graves Registration office, where they show what Sig is talking about.

 :dontpanic:
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 22, 2006, 10:23:50
Mate as I said, ther is nothing glorious about death or dying. Just take a moment and think what you have said. Even if I had them, out of respect for these soldiers who gave their all (and they did), I would not post them. I do remember seeing them in a book, or on a run of film if I remember correctly.

Wes

I know, I feel really bad about what I said. I really shouldn't of asked that.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: reccecrewman on January 22, 2006, 15:24:35
Just to ask a Q WRT our ID discs, they can be broken in two, but I've heard they're only to be broken if you cannot bring the deceased's body back.  i.e; you're on a patrol and come under contact and one of your guys gets killed and you can't safely extract his body, then you break his tags and bring the bottom half back with you.  Or do you break it in two regardless?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Ditch on January 22, 2006, 16:12:29
Good question - they never covered that in any of my training - maybe the medics get such insight?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Nero on January 22, 2006, 17:09:43
From what I remember, you break the bottom part off and take it with you. You also take an 8 figure grid reference of where the body is, so that afterwards the body can be located and given a proper burial.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Rider Pride on January 22, 2006, 20:05:58
This is BS:
Post battle, when forces were collecting bodies, they would take one disc for records, and the other tag would be place in the dead's mouth, with the notch between the two front teeth - then one would kick the jaw closed, lodging the tag in the dead's mouth.  That way, the tag would not be lost, and would later be matched with the tag collected for records.

This is close:
Just to ask a Q WRT our ID discs, they can be broken in two, but I've heard they're only to be broken if you cannot bring the deceased's body back.  i.e; you're on a patrol and come under contact and one of your guys gets killed and you can't safely extract his body, then you break his tags and bring the bottom half back with you.  Or do you break it in two regardless?

This is correct but incomplete for hasty burial:
From what I remember, you break the bottom part off and take it with you. You also take an 8 figure grid reference of where the body is, so that afterwards the body can be located and given a proper burial.

The top part (with the chain) stays looped on the body. The bottom is broken off and collected by the Sgt Maj or CQ, who then passes them up the Pers logistic chain (CQ, RQ, to the Service Bn). The Adjt is also informed as to numbers and disposition.

If you are in this situation and do not know what to do, leave the dog tags alone...someone behind you will know what to do with them. If you are withdrawing, you are duty bound to withdraw with the body as to leave no one behind.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Bzzliteyr on January 22, 2006, 20:15:31
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/026-04_e.asp

There are a couple of answers on that site. I googled for "CFAO" then used the ctrl-f function to find "discs".

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/024-05_e.asp
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/024-01_e.asp

Same thing, searched for "death".  These are available without needing to access the DIN by the way.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Hoover on January 22, 2006, 20:37:05
I've also heard from people who put them in each of their boots as well nowadays with the threat of suicide bombers, so if your body is dismembered you can still be identified.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: George Wallace on January 22, 2006, 20:45:01
I've also heard from people who put them in each of their boots as well nowadays with the threat of suicide bombers, so if your body is dismembered you can still be identified.
Not necessarily "identified", but more like Identified and all the parts brought back together for burial.  Would you want to be buried with someone elses' parts?  Although, DNA samples would also be used, that testing is time consuming. 
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Rider Pride on January 22, 2006, 20:45:27
Quote
I've also heard from people who

 :threat:

Will you all sum up with the "I heard from" BS crap....info and references are above. Search or ask if you need more

Wear your damn dogtags around your neck where they should be anytime you are in uniform, so I don't have to waste time searching your broken bleeding body for the info.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Hoover on January 22, 2006, 21:01:54
Haven't even been issued them yet!! BMQ completed and departing for SQ in 3 days..
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Art Johnson on January 22, 2006, 23:03:17
It seems to me that there is a lot of drivel going on in this thread but then I'm an old dinosaur and maybe too far out of touch. A few questions if I may.
1-Can I assume that this kicking of the jaw shut takes place a rear echelon location?

2- What do they do if the man has dentures?

3- Army Medic why would you be wasting any time with a dead soldier I'm sure your talents would be put to better use attending to a live wounded soldier.

Make a reference to the eight numbered map coordinates. What idiot dreamed that one up? Most Infantrymen when in action  haven't a clue as to what the coordinates are they talk in terms such as "we left him about a quarte of a mile up the road by that second bunch of trees". Or "he was dead and we had to leave him about 50 yards to the left of that house we were attacking". 
Having said that we always tried to bring our dead back with us but sometimes when you are loaded down with wounded you have to wait and go back under cover of darkness to recover the body.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: geo on January 22, 2006, 23:15:32
Haven't even been issued them yet!! BMQ completed and departing for SQ in 3 days..
That's unnusual - you should already have.

AJ - a lot of sub units are working with GPS now. Not perfect but 8 grid reference is not that out to lunch anymore.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Rider Pride on January 22, 2006, 23:37:36
3- Army Medic why would you be wasting any time with a dead soldier I'm sure your talents would be put to better use attending to a live wounded soldier.

Correct Art, but they are not dead until I (or an MO) say they are. Also, not everyone dies instantly. Either way the info needs to be gathered.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Nero on January 23, 2006, 00:17:25
Quote
1-Can I assume that this kicking of the jaw shut takes place a rear echelon location?

2- What do they do if the man has dentures?

From what others say, it apparently doesnt happen. Why would you need to kick the jaw shut when the body is already in the rear?

Quote
3- Army Medic why would you be wasting any time with a dead soldier I'm sure your talents would be put to better use attending to a live wounded soldier.

Not to steal Armymedic's thunder or anything, but I dont think he was talking about when the soldier's dead. As he said, the medic has to go to the body and confirm that the soldier is dead. If he's alive, then its quite an inconveniance for the medic to look all over the person's body for the tags.

Quote
Make a reference to the eight numbered map coordinates. What idiot dreamed that one up? Most Infantrymen when in action  haven't a clue as to what the coordinates are they talk in terms such as "we left him about a quarte of a mile up the road by that second bunch of trees". Or "he was dead and we had to leave him about 50 yards to the left of that house we were attacking".
Having said that we always tried to bring our dead back with us but sometimes when you are loaded down with wounded you have to wait and go back under cover of darkness to recover the body.

Hey, I'm just telling you what I thought. I figure that it has to do with when you're not in the firefight anymore, but you cannot continue with the mission while carrying a body.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Jarnhamar on January 23, 2006, 02:55:35
Quote
Make a reference to the eight numbered map coordinates. What idiot dreamed that one up? Most Infantrymen when in action  haven't a clue as to what the coordinates are they talk in terms such as "we left him about a quarte of a mile up the road by that second bunch of trees". Or "he was dead and we had to leave him about 50 yards to the left of that house we were attacking".

Quote
Hey, I'm just telling you what I thought. I figure that it has to do with when you're not in the firefight anymore, but you cannot continue with the mission while carrying a body.

Forgotten_Hero I think you should always know exactly where you are so when someone asks me for a grid reference I'll look to you and you'll have an answer for me ;)

I've actually spoke with Vietnam vets who've did the whole put the dogtags in their boots thing and they've also said they've put dog tags in dead soldiers mouths so they don't get lost (though it's far far less common apparently- lots of hollywood)
Thing is we're not in Vietnam. Chances are if you're blown up someone's going to know who you are and that your missing.   Pretty good chance someone's going to be able to identify your body too, you're not going to be some FNG just off the plane being thrown into a company.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: NL_engineer on January 23, 2006, 14:19:04
For the dog tags in the boot: unless you are an engineer, you will probably step on a mine, making the dog tags in your boots useless (destroyed with your lower leg). I have hired that some of the older engineers had a se madet for there boot, in case there top half was blown off wile clearing mines.
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Nero on January 23, 2006, 16:14:34
Quote
Forgotten_Hero I think you should always know exactly where you are so when someone asks me for a grid reference I'll look to you and you'll have an answer for me

Hey now, give me a map and I'll find out where I am or where I was, but I dont consciously calculate the exact grid location we're at... I've got too much responsibility as it is being the gunner AND being a pacer ;)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 25, 2006, 07:37:27
My tag  ;D, my boot, and yes thats a brown snake, on the 10 deadliest in the world. He was sniffing around our sleeping area. Note the term 'was'.

Tags in boots is common here, as tags are plentyful from the QM. No big thing like it is back in Canada. Each main QM has its own 'addressograph' machine, so its easy as pie.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: geo on January 25, 2006, 09:04:20
Wes,
between the two sets of stainless and two sets of aluminium disks, I have more than enough to put tags on everything & anything.
Obtaining a new set of tags isn't all that complicated
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Beadwindow 7 on January 25, 2006, 09:39:06
Obtaining a new set of tags isn't all that complicated

Do you know your Name, Svc #, blood type, and religion? Then all it takes is an email
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 25, 2006, 14:40:38
do they take a blood test just to find out your blood type to put on the disk?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: TCBF on January 25, 2006, 14:45:45
By the time you finish your medicals, they will know a lot more about you than just your blood type.

Tom
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 25, 2006, 15:22:27
just leaving it to my imagination after saying it like that sounds kinda scary haha. It's one of those lines that are  writen in horror movies.
what els will they know?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Nero on January 25, 2006, 16:00:23
Quote
what els will they know?

They'll know what you did last summer  :o
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on January 25, 2006, 16:49:45
Wes,
between the two sets of stainless and two sets of aluminium disks, I have more than enough to put tags on everything & anything.
Obtaining a new set of tags isn't all that complicated

I guess things have changed in the past 11 yrs, as it was done through the orderly room, and a message has to be raised and sent for a request for such through the CF system, then it took weeks for them to arrive. Even when it ws discovered I had the wrong blood type on mine, it took a while for a new set to come in, and for a new I Card pic to be taken, and weeks for the card to come in, as for I Cards here, you make an appt, with an authority to issue form, and poof, its ready in 5 minutes, as each base/post or main QM has its own I Card machine too.

As for CF tags, I have a few sets of the alloy ones and a few sets of the stainless ones, plus I had scrounged a couple sets of blank stainless ones too. All just keepsakes from my CF past now.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Beadwindow 7 on January 25, 2006, 16:49:59
They'll know what you did last summer  :o

and any of those nasty social diseases you may have picked up during said summer. Maybe they'll make an exception and put those on your tags as well  >:D
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: 3rd Herd on January 25, 2006, 17:09:31
As with everything else in the armed forces there are specific instructions for this somewhat ghoulish thread.
CFAO 24-5
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/024-05_e.asp
and
Convention (I) for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/365-570021?OpenDocument

Choo
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: geo on January 25, 2006, 17:27:09
Wes,
with the era of digital cameras, ICards are generated while you wait (didn't time it)
but you leave with it.

Disks are still ordered thru the OR - but as long as you have a clerk who is "alert" it doesn't take much time at all
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 25, 2006, 18:06:30
how long do dog tags date back? like when and where were they first invented and used?
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: 3rd Herd on January 25, 2006, 18:42:46
Don't get it...............
Identity Discs

It was not until the Boer War of 1899 - 1902 that British soldiers started wearing regulation methods of personal identity and these were in the form of strips of tape.

The strips were supposedly carrier in tunic pockets; however, it seemed that soldiers being soldiers, the strips could end up being placed anywhere and more often than not, a detailed search had to be conducted of the seriously wounded and dead to locate them.

In 1906, each soldier was issued with a tin disc and given specific orders that it was to be worn around the neck.

By the Great War, soldiers were issued with two discs, one was round and coloured red, while the other was octagonal and coloured green.

The discs were stamped with the soldier’s name, religion and unit. The aim of the two colours was that the red tag was removed and attached to a small bag, carried by burial parties, containing the soldier’s personal belongings.

The tag’s dual purpose was to name the owner of the contents and assist in establishing a record of those killed. The green tag remained with the body for temporary burial, making the corpse identifiable when exhumed for proper burial later. (Legend has it that the two colours were to assist soldiers in remembering which tag went where: red, the colour of blood, was taken away indicating the owner was dead; while green, the colour of grass, was kept with the body).

Today, the Australian Army’s Personal Identification Tags are referred to as Number 1 Tag (the octagonal shaped disc) and Number 2 Tag (the circular disc). They are embossed with the title AUST, the soldier’s regimental number, initials and name, religion and blood group.

The circular tag is removed from the body and the octagonal tag should, given time, be placed inside the dead soldier’s mouth, between the teeth and lips.
http://www.defence.gov.au/army/traditions/documents/ID_Discs.htm

A Short History of Identification Tags

The Civil War provided the first recorded incident of American soldiers making an effort to ensure that their identities would be known should they die on the battlefield. Their methods were varied, and all were taken on a soldier's own initiative. In 1863, prior to the battle of Mine's Run in northern Virginia, General Meade's troops wrote their names and unit designations on paper tags and pinned them to their clothing. Many soldiers took great care to mark all their personal belongings. Some troops fashioned their own "ID" (identification) tags out of pieces of wood, boring a hole in one end so that they could be worn on a string around the neck.www.qmfound.com/ short_history_of_identification_tags.htm



Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: dont.get.it.48 on January 25, 2006, 19:09:58
wow.. that's not too long ago sins they were invented. it's really interesting though.

I don't mean to get personal or for this question to be disrespectful. But have any of you had you had to take one of someones tag before, and how did you feel when you had to do it?

(if this is to personal or discrespectful I'm sorry. i don't mean to offend anyone)
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on January 25, 2006, 19:43:35
And I think with that question we can call this one a wrap. If there is a legitimate question, that has some sort of reason, other than morbid curiosity, address it to a Mod. We MAY reopen this.
Title: Dog Tags
Post by: GD on April 03, 2006, 17:57:07
Do reservists get issued dog tags?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Kane on April 03, 2006, 17:58:18
Yes, reservists do get issued dog tags.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: jmackenzie_15 on April 03, 2006, 18:21:56
They're called ID Discs.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Nerf herder on April 03, 2006, 18:40:49
Question answered...topic locked.

Gents...back to your corners.

Regards
Title: What are the choices of Religions for your ID Tags?
Post by: iCaz on May 22, 2006, 13:56:07
Hello all, thanks for reading this.

I've searched and can not find an answer to my minor question.  I have joined the Air Reserves and await the application process.  From my last military experience, during your BMQ, they ask you which religion you are and stamp it on your 'dog tags'.  Last time, I indicated that United was the closest thing, but I am curious:  Is there a 'none' option or 'other'?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on May 22, 2006, 19:45:56
Didn't search very hard, did you?

From page 7 of this thread:

3.     The religious denomination of the member will be abbreviated as
follows:

Anglican ........................... ACC
Atheist, Agnostic, or no religion .. NRE
Baptist ............................ BAPT
Christian Science .................. CS
Greek Catholic ..................... GC
Greek Orthodox ..................... GO
Jewish ............................. JEW
Latter-Day Saints .................. LDS
Lutheran ........................... LUTH
Muslim ............................. MUS
New Apostolic Church ............... NAC
Other Protestant Denomination ...... OPD
Pentecostal ........................ PENT
Presbyterian ....................... PRES
Roman Catholic ..................... RC
Salvation Army ..................... SA
Unitarian Universalist ............. UNI
United Church ...................... UCC

4.     A member claiming a religious affiliation other than those shown above
will be classified Other Denomination (OD).

Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: CSA on May 25, 2006, 22:22:23
I hate to sound like an idiot but what does the "RH" mean on the tag

eg: O/RH/NEG

I have always been a little curious

sorry one again to sound like a moron!  :-[
Title: Re: dog tags
Post by: muskrat89 on May 25, 2006, 22:33:38
Google is your friend

http://anthro.palomar.edu/blood/Rh_system.htm
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: scmurray on June 21, 2006, 23:15:33
hey i am just gonna start bmq at st jean and i was wondering when you would recieve dog tags? and uniforms and equipment thx
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on June 21, 2006, 23:20:01
hey i am just gonna start bmq at st jean and i was wondering when you would recieve dog tags? and uniforms and equipment thx

Read the thread!
Title: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: couch on May 28, 2007, 15:36:34
I've been in for a few months now, and I find my dog tag and chain catch my chest hair. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions?  I'd rather not shave my chest as I think that's a bit drastic. Or is this something to just get used to? It only happens a few times a day, so it's not that bad.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Sheep Dog AT on May 28, 2007, 15:38:56
I don't wear mine unless I'm operational (I keep them in my wallet).  Or wear them outside your combat undershirt but inside your combat shirt
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Trinity on May 28, 2007, 15:42:26
Some hollow out 550 cord and use that around their chain,
I've seen medics use IV tubing.  Personally, its only that little
joining/end piece that catches my hair.  As long as thats at
the back of my neck I don't experience any problems. 

EDIT  or i can be answering a repeated troll... sigh..
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on May 28, 2007, 15:46:01
Yup, off he goes as I ban his 4 accounts....sigh.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Greymatters on May 28, 2007, 15:46:19
I don't wear mine unless I'm operational (I keep them in my wallet). 

 :o

At last! Someone else with the same idea!
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: BYT Driver on May 28, 2007, 15:50:19
Ditto...
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: dapaterson on May 28, 2007, 16:01:51
Or you can always shave your chest hair...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8x1yK9MFXQ0
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Big Red on May 28, 2007, 16:16:36
Wrap them around your belt loop and put them in your pocket.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Mr.Newf on May 28, 2007, 16:17:39
Or you can always shave your chest hair...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8x1yK9MFXQ0
HAHAHAHA
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: George Wallace on May 28, 2007, 16:23:13
 ::)

Although the Troll has been BANNED, let's not start telling people where to put their DOG TAGS other than in the "Regulated", prescribed, position.

They are designed to be worn around you neck.  They are there so that a Medic or Mortician can easily find them should they have to.

Dog Tags in your boot, your pocket, or your wallet are not in their proper place.  If a Medic can not find your Blood Group in an Emergency, then you will soon become a "John Doe" in the Morgue.   ;D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: krustyrl on May 28, 2007, 16:53:48
....not to mention , the chain is to be worn around the neck and has a "breaking strength" so as not to hang yourself or get hung up.  By putting the chain through the outer shell of 550 cord  negates that idea.

Just a thought, as I see lots of Aircrew do this and suggest otherwise for that reason.


Signed,

Your friendly
ALSE Tech
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Sheep Dog AT on May 28, 2007, 17:06:44
krustyrl that's a good point
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Teflon on May 28, 2007, 17:14:05
Quote
....not to mention , the chain is to be worn around the neck and has a "breaking strength" so as not to hang yourself or get hung up.  By putting the chain through the outer shell of 550 cord  negates that idea.

Just a thought, as I see lots of Aircrew do this and suggest otherwise for that reason.


Signed,

Your friendly
ALSE Tech

Well since if you sheath your dog tag chain with the outer shell of para cord it's not a completted loop so it still has the same breaking strength of just the chain itself.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: ArmyVern on May 28, 2007, 17:17:25
I too highly recommend the 550 cord solution. I had the same problem with my chest hair until that 550cord secret was revealed to me.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Sheep Dog AT on May 28, 2007, 17:24:02
blahhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: George Wallace on May 28, 2007, 17:24:44
I personally use Surgical Hose on my chain.  I had to replace the chain after many years of use, due to its' breaking off once too often at the Dog Tag.  (I needed to find a longer length of chain.)  Many of us have a problem with aluminium, in that it leaves black marks on the skin after a few hours of wear.  The Dog Tag was really bad when it was aluminium, but it has been changed.  Not so the chain.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: krustyrl on May 28, 2007, 17:26:18
Do what 'cha gotta do ........................ 8)
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Greymatters on May 28, 2007, 19:46:22
I too highly recommend the 550 cord solution. I had the same problem with my chest hair until that 550cord secret was revealed to me.

 :o
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Mr.Newf on May 28, 2007, 20:25:31
I too highly recommend the 550 cord solution. I had the same problem with my chest hair until that 550cord secret was revealed to me.
Oh my god!  :o
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: ArmyVern on May 28, 2007, 20:34:02
Og my god!  :o

WHAT???
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: George Wallace on May 28, 2007, 20:37:12
WHAT???

I guess you missed the fact that you have just alluded to the fact that you had chest hair........  ;D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on May 28, 2007, 20:37:35
Og my god!  :o

Yea, ya think they all look like the air brushed babes in the Maxim magazine you have stashed under your mattress?
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: ArmyVern on May 28, 2007, 20:40:05
I guess you missed the fact that you have just alluded to the fact that you had chest hair........  ;D

Yeah...so??  ;D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Mr.Newf on May 28, 2007, 20:42:15
Yea, ya think they all look like the air brushed babes in the Maxim magazine you have stashed under your mattress?
Shhh, my mom is a member on here ;)

Yeah...so??  ;D
So?! No more e-mommy now  :D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: ArmyVern on May 28, 2007, 20:47:18
Shhh, my mom is a member on here ;)
So?! No more e-mommy now  :D

Whooo!!! My evil ploy worked!! ;D

Free at last, Free at last....1



1 Martin Luther King, Jr. 28th August 1963
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Mr.Newf on May 28, 2007, 20:49:06
Good one chest fur e-momma ;D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: D Squared on May 28, 2007, 20:51:59
No worries Mike, your non-chest-hairy e-Granny will adopt you.
And no discussion about other body parts required, thank you  ;)
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: aesop081 on May 28, 2007, 20:52:36


Just a thought, as I see lots of Aircrew do this and suggest otherwise for that reason.




You leave a section of chain uncoverd so that if you hang yourself...the chain will still break.

Yeah.......how did us aircrews ever get along without ya
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Mr.Newf on May 28, 2007, 20:53:02
No worries Mike, your non-chest-hairy e-Granny will adopt you.
And no discussion about other body parts required, thank you  ;)
No thanks, Uncle Mike can take care of me  :D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: D Squared on May 28, 2007, 21:01:11
Oh, so it's UNCLE Mike now, eh?
And here I was just adding you to my will...hmph
 ;)
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Mr.Newf on May 28, 2007, 21:03:43
Oh, so it's UNCLE Mike now, eh?
And here I was just adding you to my will...hmph
 ;)
Yeah, it's uncle Mike now, has been for a little while too. You can keep me in the will if you want.......... ;D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Beadwindow 7 on May 28, 2007, 21:34:21
Yeah, it's uncle Mike now, has been for a little while too. You can keep me in the will if you want.......... ;D

Yeah...leave him debts and expenses.  ;D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: D Squared on May 28, 2007, 21:55:30
How did you know?  ;D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Yrys on May 28, 2007, 22:11:22
Yeah...leave him debts and expenses.  ;D

But he has to leave something that M Baker will want, otherwise, MB can just refuse the ''gifts'' of the will...  :D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: GUNS on May 28, 2007, 22:15:33
To solve the tags problem, go see a veh. tech. and ask  for some wire shrink wrap. Put the chain through the shrink wrap and use a lighter or heat gun to shrink the wrap on the chain. Leave clasp exposed. The shrink wrap comes in various sizes so get the size that right for the chain. O yes, the shrink wrap comes in different colors.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Yrys on May 28, 2007, 22:27:29
Quote
I guess you missed the fact that you have just alluded to the fact that you had chest hair........  Grin
Yeah...so??  ;D

I admit to beeing puzzled. You don't seem shy of admitting of a few decorations on your chest,
however, you may have lost the october contest because you didn't display them appropriately
(with a bikini top)...

http://forums.army.ca/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=24534
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: BushmasterBob on May 28, 2007, 22:30:23
I think that the silicone fuel lines from a nitro RC car might work pretty good, its nice and flexible and quite soft.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Technoviking on May 28, 2007, 22:48:15
OK, I have more chest hair than Austin Powers (ask anyone who's actually seen me).  It's so thick, that when I wear the crew neck T Shirts, it looks like I'm wearing my wool sweater.  I've never had problems with my tags "infiltrating" my chest hair.  I wear them all the time (only because I'd lose them if I didn't).
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: D Squared on May 29, 2007, 00:39:51
OK, I have more chest hair than Austin Powers
tess,
a Paesan?  ;D
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Drummy on May 29, 2007, 01:11:01
 
I too highly recommend the 550 cord solution. I had the same problem with my chest hair until that 550cord secret was revealed to me.

Hi Vern,

Do you also get angry at the Giecko commercials?     ;D

Drummy
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: dapaterson on May 29, 2007, 01:15:04
OK, I have more chest hair than Austin Powers (ask anyone who's actually seen me).  It's so thick, that when I wear the crew neck T Shirts, it looks like I'm wearing my wool sweater.  I've never had problems with my tags "infiltrating" my chest hair.  I wear them all the time (only because I'd lose them if I didn't).


I'd just be concerned about losing the dog tags inside your luxurious mane of chest hair...
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: the 48th regulator on May 29, 2007, 01:32:27
tess,
a Paesan?  ;D


Frig you all with your weak aise solutions.  I have a sweater for chest hair, and wore my dog tags raw all 17 years I was in. :-\

Yer all Weak!

dileas

tess


Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Big Red on May 31, 2007, 16:19:45

Dog Tags in your boot, your pocket, or your wallet are not in their proper place.  If a Medic can not find your Blood Group in an Emergency, then you will soon become a "John Doe" in the Morgue.   ;D

I've always been told that the medics are going to blood type you regardless of what your tag, velcro, etc says.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Yrys on May 31, 2007, 16:33:05
I've always been told that the medics are going to blood type you regardless of what your tag, velcro, etc says.

Civy question : Is it thuth ? And if yes, why ?
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Blackadder1916 on May 31, 2007, 17:28:22
Civy question : Is it thuth ? And if yes, why ?

Simple answer:  Yes, because the ID card/tag may be wrong.
 
The more detailed but still simple answer:   Blood typing is a laboratory test done to determine a person's blood type. If the person needs a blood transfusion, another test called crossmatching is done after the blood is typed to find blood from a donor that the person's body will accept.

Blood typing and crossmatching are most commonly done to make certain that a person who needs a transfusion will receive blood that matches (is compatible with) his own. People must receive blood of the same blood type, otherwise, a serious, even fatal, transfusion reaction can occur.

Crossmatching is the final step in pretransfusion testing. It is commonly referred to as compatibility testing, or "Type and Cross."  Before blood from a donor and the recipient are crossmatched, both are ABO and Rh typed. In addition, antibody screening is done to look for antibodies to certain Rh, Duffy, MNS, Kell, Kidd, and P system antigens. If an antibody to one of these antigens is found, only blood without that antigen will be compatible in a crossmatch. This sequence must be repeated before each transfusion a person receives.

To begin the crossmatch, blood from a donor with the same ABO and Rh type as the rcipient is selected. If an unexpected antibody is found in either the patient or the donor, the blood bank does further testing to make sure the blood is compatible.

In an emergency, when there is not enough time for blood typing and crossmatching, O red blood cells may be given, preferably Rh-negative. O blood type is called the universal donor because it has no ABO antigens for a patient's antibodies to attack. In contrast, AB blood type is called the universal recipient because it has no ABO antibodies to attack the antigens on transfused red blood cells. If there is time for blood typing, red blood cells of the recipient type (type specific cells) are given. In either case, the crossmatch is continued, even though the transfusion has begun.

If you are interested in some aspects of blood trasnsfusion in a military setting: (it's not just about sticking a needle in a guy's arm and letting red stuff flow in)
Fresh Whole Blood Transfusion: A Controversial Military Practice http://www.usaisr.amedd.army.mil/gwot/FWB%20-%20Kauvar%202006%20J%20Trauma.pdf






Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Yrys on May 31, 2007, 17:36:25
This sequence must be repeated before each transfusion a person receives.

Do you know why ?

Thank you for your detail answer and the link ...
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Blackadder1916 on May 31, 2007, 17:39:49
Do you know why ?

Because the patient will be receiving blood from a different donor each time.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: Yrys on May 31, 2007, 17:42:40
HA! light bulb!  :-[

Yes, there is no national registry of blood type for everyone, which a doc
could consult to find out about all the specifics of a patient  :D .
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: George Wallace on May 31, 2007, 21:16:26
A question for those who keep their Dog Tags in their pants pocket:

How long is the chain you have on them?

I mean......If someone has to break off half and place the chained half in your mouth and kick your cadaver's jaw shut, is the chain long enough?
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: NL_engineer on June 01, 2007, 08:44:41
A question for those who keep their Dog Tags in their pants pocket:

How long is the chain you have on them?

I mean......If someone has to break off half and place the chained half in your mouth and kick your cadaver's jaw shut, is the chain long enough?

That's not done any more, the chain with top half of the tag is left around the neck.
Title: Re: dog tags and chest hair
Post by: George Wallace on June 01, 2007, 08:52:55
That's not done any more, the chain with top half of the tag is left around the neck.

And the disc/tag placed in the mouth to protect it from being torn off or destroyed in secondary 'events' such as explosion, napalm, or just transport through 'obstacles', etc. which may occur before the body can be properly recovered.  If it is left in a pocket, then some poor soul under combat conditions may waste precious time trying to find them.  How many times have you misplaced something in a Combat pocket and searched all pockets looking for it?  That is why it is worn around the neck.  STANDARDIZATION.

Why should some poor soul fall victim to enemy fire searching a body of a comrade for their ID Tags?

Everyone who has stated that it doesn't matter where, and that 'they' know who was "on the plane" are only thinking of one casualty.  What about hundreds or thousands of casualties?
Title: Dog Tags
Post by: Pte. Infantry on June 04, 2007, 07:11:56
 so on the weekend i had a buddy come over before we went out and he saw my dog tags on my dresser and decides to snap them apart. I was pissed because it took me close to 4 months to get them.
 but the point of this is does anyone know how much its costs to replace them so i know how much he owes me? and also would i just go to the Clerks at the armoury and ask to order new ones or would i go to the kit shop?

i would normally ask someone on a parade night but are armoury has shut down for the summer
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: aesop081 on June 04, 2007, 08:38:38
just go to the Clerks at the armoury and ask to order new ones



Yes
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Beadwindow 7 on June 04, 2007, 08:54:22
i would normally ask someone on a parade night but are armoury has shut down for the summer

Your unit will still have some daystaff during the week. Call or find out the hours and go in.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: mover1 on June 04, 2007, 09:14:37
3 bucks at Canex (mind you these are blanks)
BUt yes just order new ones from your OR
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Pte. Infantry on June 04, 2007, 09:17:02
thanks guys, i didnt think they would be that cheap
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: geo on June 04, 2007, 10:38:36
... 1.  don't invite your friend over when you have breakable things lying around and get him to by you a couple of beers to compensate you for the trouble you have to go thru to get them replaced.

2.  put the darned ID Disks away when you aren't wearing them.  Forget about the look cool factor (LCF)

3.  Go to the OR and ask them to order you a new set of disks
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Pte. Infantry on June 04, 2007, 10:45:13
haha yeah well most of my friends just look at them and check them out, i only have one friend dumb enough to break them. He already bought me a couple beers and said he would pay for them because i thought they would cost about 30$ or so to replace but if there not expensive to replace ill just take the hit for them im not that cheap.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Breacher41 on June 04, 2007, 16:08:55
hmmm about dumb friends? I usually stay away from that variety  ::) they're really bad juju...
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Dog on June 04, 2007, 16:38:16
Yeah, but Medtech, he might be an infanteer... in which case he hardly has a choice....  ;D
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Breacher41 on June 04, 2007, 16:40:25
*drum beat* heyo!  :D
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Inch on June 04, 2007, 18:54:40
Not expensive at all, in fact, free.

I ordered a new set when I wanted my religion changed and then a spare set in case I lose mine. So I have 3 sets in total and they cost exactly the square root of jack squat.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Yrys on June 04, 2007, 18:56:26
Feel free not to answer, but I'm curious, you change from what to what ?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Inch on June 04, 2007, 19:35:12
Feel free not to answer, but I'm curious, you change from what to what ?

Anglican Church of Canada (ACC) to No Religion Expressed (NRE).
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: SupersonicMax on June 04, 2007, 19:52:37
What does it change when you have NRE put on?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Yrys on June 04, 2007, 20:10:54
? Maybe the padre won't read a piece of the Bible at your obtuary ?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Inch on June 04, 2007, 20:44:46
? Maybe the padre won't read a piece of the Bible at your obtuary ?

Bingo!
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: alfie on June 06, 2007, 10:44:58
As a "Pinky" with the UN in the Sinia we had ours broken as part of the initiation, never asked for new ones and just looped the chain through both.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: geo on June 06, 2007, 19:57:35
Ummm.... so you condone hazing rituals?  (JK :))
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: NL_engineer on June 07, 2007, 16:54:46
? Maybe the padre won't read a piece of the Bible at your obtuary ?

I was told that the religion was on your ID disks, so that a padre of that religion will be on hand for the NOK.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: ArmyVern on June 07, 2007, 17:06:54
I was told that the religion was on your ID disks, so that a padre of that religion will be on hand for the NOK.

In my case I'm an NRE; my parents however are not. The ID discs represent the members religious beliefs/non-beliefs, and represent how that member wishes to have any ceremony proceeded with. They are not necessarily indicative of the parents wishs.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: SupersonicMax on June 07, 2007, 20:51:41
In my case I'm an NRE; my parents however are not. The ID discs represent the members religious beliefs/non-beliefs, and represent how that member wishes to have any ceremony proceeded with. They are not necessarily indicative of the parents wishs.

What if you docs said otherwise???
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: geo on June 07, 2007, 22:09:03
Hey.... it's your instructions - the CF will do what you want them to.
parents will be given chance to have their say BUT, your personal wishes are priority one.

same story with donating vital organs - your parents might not like the idea of your parts going hither and yon
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Not_So_Arty_Newbie on June 19, 2007, 18:37:23
as far as notification foes the PEN fors do ask what religioun your primary and secondary contacts are so when, god forbit, it becomes neccessary they may bring the appropriate padre with them.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: CdnArtyWife on June 19, 2007, 20:03:29
Hubby was thinking about getting his tags changed for religion purposes...but though neither of us are practising anything and more Buddhist influenced in philosophy, my Dad is an Anglican priest, so I know it would be a comfort to him to have a padre available...and if he had a preference, it would be IN HOC SIGNO anyway.

Besides, hubby can't be bothered to get himself a new chain (since his broke into three peices) what makes me think he'd have energy enough to order all new tags? ::)

Good to know though...maybe I'll request new tags for him when I go into the OR tomorrow. (I don't like the idea of him using para cord to keep his tags around his neck)
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on June 19, 2007, 20:11:11
so on the weekend i had a buddy come over before we went out and he saw my dog tags on my dresser and decides to snap them apart. I was pissed because it took me close to 4 months to get them.
 but the point of this is does anyone know how much its costs to replace them so i know how much he owes me? and also would i just go to the Clerks at the armoury and ask to order new ones or would i go to the kit shop?

i would normally ask someone on a parade night but are armoury has shut down for the summer


The next set you get, bend them length ways just a bit, this re-inforces them, and makes it harder to break them. In those days they were the alloy ones, but the stainless ones should have been a ******* to break.


Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: BernDawg on June 19, 2007, 20:20:57
Actually Wes I just rec'd a new set of stainless ones and they are cut most of the way through and almost came apart in my hands as I was putting them on for the first time.  I put them in my FMP and dug out my old stainless ones to wear on my PLQ.  Beside they have my medic alert on them any way.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on June 19, 2007, 20:42:45
Point noted, ha!

The Aussie tags are exactly the same shapes as the WWII Cdn type, but instead of fibre, phosphated brass.

In Iraq we had to wear them, plus I had another single tag tucked in my right boot.

I would have thought the CF stainless type would be more robust. Somewhere in my collection of army crap, I do have an old set of early stainless and a few sets of the alloy types. The design is good, practical, and yes 'stolen' from the Germans, who used the basic one piece in an oval shape for both world wars.

Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: geo on June 19, 2007, 23:04:31
Dunno about all others but, I still have two sets of alloy disks with my SIN on them and two sets of stainless.
Have as yet, never had a problem of them breaking.... then again, I haven't tested it out to see how car I can go before it will break.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: BernDawg on June 20, 2007, 20:08:55
Maybe I got part of a bad run but they really have a problem.  Even the commissionaire that handed them to me in the Ident office noticed how weak they were in the middle
Title: photo of caf identification disc (dogtag)
Post by: mydogtag on January 07, 2009, 23:01:46
Hello,

As a civilian, I am curious to see what an actual military issued CAF identification disc (dogtag) looks like. I would appreciate it if someone could please post a close-up photograph or scan of their tags.

Please do not link to images of NON-military produced knock-off replicas.

Thanks
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Loachman on January 17, 2009, 22:07:24
Should anybody choose to do so, blank out your personal information first. Failure to do so can set you up for a lot of grief.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: the 48th regulator on January 17, 2009, 22:47:38
Hello,

As a civilian, I am curious to see what an actual military issued CAF identification disc (dogtag) looks like. I would appreciate it if someone could please post a close-up photograph or scan of their tags.

Please do not link to images of NON-military produced knock-off replicas.

Thanks


Already been but.....

http://www.dogtagscanada.com/


dileas

tess
Title: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: LaFrog on March 02, 2009, 13:14:29
I keep breaking the chain on my dog tag's. Is there a better chain out there. Our where do you get a replacement for them. I'm a CIC Officers so do not have access to a base.
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: TimBit on March 02, 2009, 14:30:18
I keep breaking the chain on my dog tag's. Is there a better chain out there. Our where do you get a replacement for them. I'm a CIC Officers so do not have access to a base.

Just don't wear them all the time... I can't see them being mandatory in CIC, no?
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: Cleared Hot on March 02, 2009, 14:59:09
What in God's name are you doing that keeps breaking your dog tag chain?  That having been asked, if you are that clumsy that you keep getting it caught it's probably best that you keep the "weaker" chain (for obvious reasons) which is uaually available in bulk at any hardware store like Home Depot or Cdn Tire.
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: Journeyman on March 02, 2009, 15:10:18
...if you are that clumsy that you keep getting it caught it's probably best that you keep the "weaker" chain (for obvious reasons)
Shhh....let Darwinism play out as it should  ;)
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: Snakedoc on March 02, 2009, 15:33:04
Anybody know the current CF policy on the wearing of I.D. tags?  Are they mandatory for all members to wear (including navy) or optional?  Did a search but couldn't find anything specific.

Thanks,
Snakedoc
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: LaFrog on March 02, 2009, 15:43:57
Just wear them, have the same chain that I was issued a few years back. Have a few of the keepers to fix them up. The ones in bulk chain keeps rusting on me. Ok where can a person get a new chain. Is it available through supply or the MP?
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: Bzzliteyr on March 02, 2009, 16:10:19
I don't know what the policy is but I only wear my dogtags when I am doing something dangerous that involves me not being able to be identified through other means (licence, licence plates, ID card, etc...)

In Afghanistan I had them on all the time but really, the chances of you getting killed in AFG without anyone around that are able to ID you, are slim to none.  I could understand during past large scale conflicts the chance of not being known by the people that find you, but these days I can't see it happening that often.
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: my72jeep on March 02, 2009, 18:33:37
They are in the supply system issue is a box (50) if I remember most supplys had a few on hand for walk-ins. I put in a 2302 years ago for some and a box arived.


Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: LaFrog on March 02, 2009, 19:16:05
Thank you for the reply, do you happen to know the NSN for them. I can try and order a box an see what happens.
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: my72jeep on March 02, 2009, 20:24:43
Next time Im at the unit I will dig it out and IM it to you.
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: davidsonr_91 on March 03, 2009, 04:57:20
Do members of the PRes get dogtags?
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: BinRat55 on March 03, 2009, 07:31:27
Shhh....let Darwinism play out as it should  ;)

Good lord, after reading this thread my IQ is 20 points lower!!

OK, for the ones who keep breaking their chain - get hold of some 50/50 cord, pull the white ropes out and keep the "skin". Feed the chain into the "skin" and voila - reinforced (and comfortable) chain. I've seen it done with rubber med tubing as well. Rusty? The chain is stainless steel my friend - hang it on a hook when not in use, not in the flush box of your toilet...

Yes, PRes get ID disks (Americans call them "Dog Tags", Canadian call them ID Disks...)

S/C is 21-520-5611 (U of I is EA and there are 50 to a box)
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: my72jeep on March 03, 2009, 08:14:53
Do members of the PRes get dogtags?
Why wouldn't PRes get ID Disks?????? Are they not worth Identifying?
Title: Re: Dog Tag Chain
Post by: Fishbone Jones on March 03, 2009, 08:33:18
AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff
Title: cold war dog tags:
Post by: joeye11svcbn on August 08, 2009, 04:52:50
Can someone display an old style dog tag so I can see how it was layed out? I know they had the s.i.n. number on top, name on the next line, religion and blood type on the next line and cdn forces cdn on the bottom, but how was the whole thing layed out on the disc? Where they stamped like the new ones with everything kind centered? Also what was stamped on the back? :salute: :cdn:
Title: Re: cold war dog tags:
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on August 08, 2009, 06:52:52
My tags c.1977, had 'DO NOT REMOVE' on the reverse only in English, before it was in two languages.

The tags were also alloy.

 123 456 789
JR DOE
RC A/RH/POS
CDN FORCES CDN

 123 456 789
JR DOE
RC
CDN FORCES CDN

EDITed to say the font was different than the new ones.



Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: PMedMoe on August 08, 2009, 11:46:41
Probably just a replica, but something like this:

(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdogtagstore.com%2Fimages%2Fcanadian%2Fcdn-300.jpg&hash=8c21d2e22c963c2d970a3f1268614a19)
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: joeye11svcbn on August 08, 2009, 16:21:20
Thanks, I am woundering about the tags with the s.i.n. numbers stamped on them. Also I was woundering about the size of the lettering and numbers as well as how each line lined up with the other lines.
123 456 789
ABC DEFGHIJK
UCC B/RH/P
CDN FORCES CDN
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on August 08, 2009, 18:19:19
Thanks, I am woundering about the tags with the s.i.n. numbers stamped on them. Also I was woundering about the size of the lettering and numbers as well as how each line lined up with the other lines.
123 456 789
ABC DEFGHIJK
UCC B/RH/P
CDN FORCES CDN

Don't get so wrapped up about these things. I've got sets that were hand stamped and crooked, some are in different fonts, some are machine made and deep set while some are barely legible. Made from aluminum and stainless steel. They are made by the lowest bidder the cheapest way they can do it. You'd be hard pressed to argue the non authenticity of any of them.

Well, except maybe these ones
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: SARgirl on August 08, 2009, 20:31:18
There is a Canadian company who does do both, Canadian and American Dog Tags, for anyone wanting to buy a set.  According to their website, they ship from out of Toronto.

My Dog Tags . Ca
http://www.mydogtag.ca/

The "Canadian Forces" version seems to be sold out.

I think the biggest market for something like this, would be for those who wanted to give a personalized and/or romantic gift to a loved one.

All couples seem to have their own 'language' for certain things.  These Dog Tags would make for a romantic gift; one could put a quote or saying or set of words which means something specific to X couple.  Personally, I would love to receive a gift like this; for me, it would be one of those perfect gifts.

Another gift idea, would be for their to be a personalized set of 'family' Dog Tags and for the 'family set' to have something printed on the Dog Tags which means something specific to that family... again, all families have their own 'language' for certain things or perhaps a little boy wants a set just like daddy or daddy's little girl would a set just like daddy etc... and so X solider has a set of Dog Tags made with something special printed on the Dog Tag for his child or children.

The same company is on Facebook as well:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=647298478&ref=profile#/mydogtag?ref=mf
On FB, you'll notice someone had a set of Dog Tags made for their bunny; cute photo.

----------


Is duplicating dog tags legal?
Good Question- I'm looking forward to someone posting the answer.

I'm thinking that, as long as the company doesn't print information on any of their dog tags which might make the the dog tags 'appear' legit, then I don't think there should be a problem with the company using dog tags for personalized gifts. 
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: SARgirl on August 08, 2009, 20:39:43
Regarding the post I made above, the below quoted information is from the 'FAQ' section of the company's website:
Quote
What can I put on my Dogtags?
You can have any text you want stamped on the dog tags...it's entirely up to you and it will not be censored by us. Many choose to have their tags stamped in various military styles with last name, first name, social security number, blood type, and religion
http://www.mydogtag.ca/faq.php#

This information does make it seem like, one would certainly have the option to have a Dog Tag created which appeared to be legitimate.

Go to this link and scroll down to the "Canadian Armed Forces Dogtag".  The photo shown, shows "CND FORCES CND", printed at the bottom of the Dog Tag.  http://www.mydogtag.ca/military
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: FMRguy on October 16, 2009, 22:31:56
Is the info stamped on the disk or is it engraved?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Target Up on October 16, 2009, 22:34:53
They are actually etched by Indonesian children using old turntable needles by candle light.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: aesop081 on October 16, 2009, 22:40:04
They are actually etched by Indonesian children using old turntable needles by candle light.

For 10 cents a day.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Danjanou on October 16, 2009, 22:48:35
For 10 cents a day.


They finally got that raise then. 8)
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: SupersonicMax on October 16, 2009, 23:35:13
Is the info stamped on the disk or is it engraved?

You did not bother reading 3 posts before your?!?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: SARgirl on October 17, 2009, 00:12:27
Is the info stamped on the disk or is it engraved?

I'm not certain which company you are referring to specifically, but here is information about how the data is applied using the company I posted about roughly 1/2 dozen posts up.

Quote
We purchase the blank tags from the same manufacturer who supplies the United States military. The embossing data which you submit online is fed directly into our ultra-high precision computer controlled embossing machine, avoiding the possibility of human input error. Watch of movie of it in action!
http://www.mydogtag.ca/faq.php#

And here is the link for the mentioned movie:
http://www.mydogtag.ca/video.php#inaction
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: TCBF on October 19, 2009, 13:10:04

They finally got that raise then. 8)

- Bloody unions...
 ;D
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: TCBF on October 19, 2009, 14:15:21
I like how their "Dogtags Preview" with two big tags stamped has St. John's spelled wrong... that's great advertising for you. I wonder why in the world they picked St. John's of all places anyway.

EDIT: K this turned out for the worst haha... Someone delete this post please (I thought you could delete your posts on your own???)? Or just leave it here as punishment.

- You could edit your post and remove all of the words, but you only have a bit over 24 hours to do that.  But, of course, I quoted you, and THAT will still be around...

HA HA HA HA !!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: domenus on October 19, 2009, 14:50:00
I heard a story from somewhere, but I cant remember where I heard it. But the story goes that the tag that is to be filed was to be inserted into the mouth and the the jaw was to be forced to bite the tag, leaving a dental impression. This was done to allow for dental records to confirm the body. Can anyone confirm this or clarify this at all?

EDIT* Just finished reading the rest of the posts in the topic and found the link about the many tales and myths regarding dog tags.

Loachman, I forgot to mention the story involved the WWII version. I believe they were made out of a softer metal.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Loachman on October 19, 2009, 15:02:58
They're stainless steel.

Put one in your mouth and apply pressure until you leave an imprint. Tell us how your jaw feels and how many teeh you have left.

Have you read the previous posts in this thread? Have you checked Snopes.com?
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: gcclarke on October 19, 2009, 15:31:28
They're stainless steel.

Put one in your mouth and apply pressure until you leave an imprint. Tell us how your jaw feels and how many teeh you have left.

Have you read the previous posts in this thread? Have you checked Snopes.com?

Ooooh I should try that. I've got my annual checkup on Monday. I'm sure that would go over great. ;D
Title: A few questions about the dogtags
Post by: Xenos on November 05, 2009, 01:39:07
So I have a few questions about the CF dogtags.  :)

1) Are the text centered like in this image: (https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.semperfiwives.com%2Fimages%2Fcdn2.jpg&hash=46174e3fbdc4cc8ff96217b31e3af88d)

    ... or are the text shifted to the left margin like this: (https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mydogtagz.com%2Fimages%2Fsampletags%2Fcaf.png&hash=814f0b520784a66a24b27a4bdf85687c)

2) I have looked at a few pictures in regards to how things are layed out on the dogtags. There are 2 major varaiations:

a) A/RH/POS
b) A/POS

So are there the letters "RH" between the blood type and POS/NEG?

3) Are the service numbers still made according to your SIN card number? And is the letter at the beginning of the service number random?


Thanks in advance everyone  :salute:  :cdn:

 :yellow: :yellow: :yellow: :yellow: :yellow: :yellow: :yellow: :yellow: :yellow:
Title: Re: A few questions about the dogtags
Post by: Guy Incognito on November 05, 2009, 02:26:08
Tags are formatted as follows (using false data):

Code: [Select]
  A12 345 678
WA BISHOP
NRE   O/RH/NEG
CDN FORCES CDN

(For clarity, SN is center-aligned, Blood-type is right aligned. All others are left-aligned)

I don't think SN's are based off SIN's anymore. I don't see any correlation between my SN and SIN.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Loachman on November 05, 2009, 05:36:36
Welcome to Army.ca, Xenos.

I merged your new topic with an existing one.

Please use the Search Function to research topics of interest prior to posting a question in future - chances are that it has been asked and answered before. You will likely find, during the process, answers to questions that you haven't even thought of yet.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Eye In The Sky on November 05, 2009, 10:58:06
I hope those dog tags in the pictures aren't ones from current serving mbrs.  I wouldn't want my dog tags complete with SN and all that up on a public forum (PERSEC and all).

Xenos, I am wondering why you want to know the format for CF dogtags.  If you are in, your info will be sent off and you'll get them IAW the CF standard.  Unless you are planning on getting some fake ones made up for...some reason or other.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Target Up on November 05, 2009, 11:03:19
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: George Wallace on November 05, 2009, 11:27:12
I hope those dog tags in the pictures aren't ones from current serving mbrs.  I wouldn't want my dog tags complete with SN and all that up on a public forum (PERSEC and all).

Xenos, I am wondering why you want to know the format for CF dogtags.  If you are in, your info will be sent off and you'll get them IAW the CF standard.  Unless you are planning on getting some fake ones made up for...some reason or other.

Neither appear to be legitimate ID Discs.

The top one looks like a fake, when looking at the holes for the chain.

The bottom one has an invalid S/N.

AND ....... NO.....The SIN is not used.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: --NES-- on November 05, 2009, 21:19:11
If you are in, your info will be sent off and you'll get them IAW the CF standard.

I thought I'd just toss this in here... I have been in since '98 and have put in a request for ID discs every year (sometimes twice a year) and have yet to recieve a proper set of tags...  I stress proper.
Granted, I have one of those names that can be easily screwed up; getting 8 letters in proper sequence can be tricky sometimes... even when their typed out in capitals... So needless to say, I have a lot of ID discs with a variation of my name, service number, blood group and religion, but none of them are correct.

I even had to get "fake" tags made up (in Petawawa) for deployment... even after multiple memos to my home unit and the unit I was attached to... And the engraver got it right in one try... for $8.

I will have my CD before I have proper tags.   ::)
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Carcharodon Carcharias on November 05, 2009, 23:56:28
Hey RHFC,

Here each Q Store has an addressograph for dog tags, you walk in with the right proforma filled out, wait a few minutes, and presto, sign for them, and your tags are done and you got them in your hand.

None of this 'national' long term/short term waiting in the dark BS where they are done in some other part of the country, and you end up waiting for years.


Cheers,

Wes
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: --NES-- on November 06, 2009, 00:30:52
Hey RHFC,

Here each Q Store has an addressograph for dog tags, you walk in with the right proforma filled out, wait a few minutes, and presto, sign for them, and your tags are done and you got them in your hand.

None of this 'national' long term/short term waiting in the dark BS where they are done in some other part of the country, and you end up waiting for years.


Cheers,

Wes


Well... that's the straw that broke the camels back... set another place at the table, I'm heading down under.  ;D
Title: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: AirBratt on April 17, 2010, 11:35:06
I know this may seem like a really stupid question but...

I am allergic to all metal except for 18k gold, Platinum, or Titanium and I know dog tags are made out of steel, so my question is am I going to broken out in hives for the rest of my career or do they have extenuating circumstances for people like me?
And before anyone suggests it I have tried the clear nailpolish trick and it doesn't work.
I don't know if I can get a set of platinum tags made and get them so engrave all the info.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance  :)

P.S. If this question has already been answered I am sorry... Tried searching for it but didn't find anything close.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: PMedMoe on April 17, 2010, 11:39:54
You can cover the chain, either with para cord or plastic IV tubing.  I have also seen little plastic pouches (like the ones for coins) used to cover the dog tags.  Often, they are not even worn around the neck but placed in the inside pocket of the combat shirt.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: ballz on April 17, 2010, 11:53:46
I know this may seem like a really stupid question but...

I am allergic to all metal except for 18k gold, Platinum, or Titanium and I know dog tags are made out of steel, so my question is am I going to broken out in hives for the rest of my career or do they have extenuating circumstances for people like me?
And before anyone suggests it I have tried the clear nailpolish trick and it doesn't work.
I don't know if I can get a set of platinum tags made and get them so engrave all the info.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance  :)

P.S. If this question has already been answered I am sorry... Tried searching for it but didn't find anything close.

I'm in a similar boat. I have eczema and *most* metals for me are okay but for some reason the dog tags aren't... I'm at school now so I don't wear them anyway, but after a week in the field I have a pretty distinct rash and it gets out of hand.

I asked the medical staff here (there is no MO here so the doctor and I just ended up asking the Med Techs), only one person had an answer. The WO said no, I was not allowed anything and I couldn't buy my own and get the same stuff stamped on them, because apparently "these dog tags are specially designed not to melt in case of fires/explosions and such." ::)

After some brainstorming we thought about running them through a laminating machine and hence covering them with plastic... I have no idea if this works yet. If not I'll be looking into it further.

I would suggest titanium before platinum if you do go the route of buying your own... much cheaper.... stronger... and has a melting point of 1649 degrees Celsius( just in case they need to identify your dust). I'm not sure how ridiculous / possible it might be to break off the end though.

Does the chain itself bother you too then?

EDIT: PMedMoe, I thought it was a great pet peeve of you medical folk when they are not where they are supposed to be?
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: George Wallace on April 17, 2010, 11:55:11
You can cover the chain, either with para cord or plastic IV tubing.  I have also seen little plastic pouches (like the ones for coins) used to cover the dog tags.  Often, they are not even worn around the neck but placed in the inside pocket of the combat shirt.

Surgical tubing works well.  Been using it for years.  Keeps my neck from turning black.   Don't wear the ID Discs next to skin; wear them outside of the T-shirt (under the Cbt shirt of course).
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: ArmyVern on April 17, 2010, 11:56:50
I`m interested into how one would hold a weapon, a KFS, a gerber, an arch or purlin for modular to help sent up tentage etc etc ...

Wear gloves 24 and 7 for the duration of their career ... we have a whole bunch of metal exposure no matter the job or rank ... door handles etc.

Perhaps you could request a total office makeover!! Post the pics of your uberoffice!! Imagine - all platinum. I`d be good with that!!  ;D
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: PMedMoe on April 17, 2010, 12:19:22
EDIT: PMedMoe, I thought it was a great pet peeve of you medical folk when they are not where they are supposed to be?

Well, not to me, it doesn't really matter in my job.  But yes to some.  Probably peeves crusty old RSMs even more.   ;)
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: medicineman on April 17, 2010, 12:47:51
EDIT: PMedMoe, I thought it was a great pet peeve of you medical folk when they are not where they are supposed to be?

As long as they are somewhere that's standardized, who cares.  For the OP, most of us at one point or other have had to slide the chains through some paracord or plastic tubing...as for the actual tag, ballz was onto something - don't laminate per se, just use map talc and punch out holes for the chain.

MM
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: ArmyVern on April 17, 2010, 13:01:05
As long as they are somewhere that's standardized, who cares.  For the OP, most of us at one point or other have had to slide the chains through some paracord or plastic tubing...as for the actual tag, ballz was onto something - don't laminate per se, just use map talc and punch out holes for the chain.

MM

LOL. And, if they DO care where they are located, rather than just caring that they are in a `standardized position` - they deserve to be mentioned in the `you know you are a dinosaur`or a member of The RCR thread.  :D

I used the paracord and placed gun tape on the back of the tags; it worked for me.


Edited because I am a twit and forgot about our much valued dress and drill gawds - The RCR.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: medicineman on April 17, 2010, 13:05:55
True - hey, I was with 2 RCR for a couple of years, it's taken awhile to clear out my colon.

MM
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Petamocto on April 17, 2010, 13:10:19
Vern,

Get out of my head.  As soon as I saw the post my first thought was "screw the dog tags, how are you going to survive with everything else in the CF that's metal?".
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: medicineman on April 17, 2010, 13:14:36
In a bubble like John Travolta...

MM
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: ArmyVern on April 17, 2010, 13:18:37
True - hey, I was with 2 RCR for a couple of years, it's taken awhile to clear out my colon.

MM

Thus, I have now ammended my original post.  >:D



edited: damn typos.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: ArmyVern on April 17, 2010, 13:22:09
In a bubble like John Travolta...

MM

Well, as long as that bubble is fully employable and deployable - I`ve got no issues with it other than the fact that stocking replacement bubbles would decrease the amount of space I have available for little things like guns, ammo, food, water etc.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: medicineman on April 17, 2010, 13:25:17
Be hard to engage targets outside the bubble while maintaining integrity of it as well...unless it has something similar to torpedo tubes on a submarine.

MM
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: ArmyVern on April 17, 2010, 13:27:31
Be hard to engage targets outside the bubble while maintaining integrity of it as well...unless it has something similar to torpedo tubes on a submarine.

MM

And, of course, it`s not like we could construct the bubble out of anything other than gold or platinum to increase it`s structural integrity and ability to fend off incoming rounds and/or shrapnel.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: medicineman on April 17, 2010, 13:33:07
Forget if we accidentally dropped said bubble soldier from a height or they fell off the back deck of their LAV - some sort of deceleration device or shock absorber would be necessary as well. 

MM
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Petamocto on April 17, 2010, 14:09:54
And, of course, it`s not like we could construct the bubble out of anything other than gold or platinum ...

This is the only other solution I can see:

(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20070408132639%2Fstarwars%2Fimages%2Farchive%2F5%2F54%2F20090414152807%21Energy_shield-1-.jpg&hash=4c72f7217cbc38be2af452ea97e95557)

Get busy, DLR!
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: medicineman on April 17, 2010, 15:30:50
Wow, an entire army allegic to their dog tags...man the RMO is behind the 8 ball there.

MM
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Shamrock on April 17, 2010, 18:10:34
Well, since the medics have chimed in, I have a question.

Wouldn't that member also require an "incoming, nonmetallic bullets, spalling, and shrapnel" chit?
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: medicineman on April 18, 2010, 13:57:00
It would have to specify "non-precious metal incoming only".

MM
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Towards_the_gap on April 18, 2010, 14:38:01
As long as they are somewhere that's standardized, who cares.  For the OP, most of us at one point or other have had to slide the chains through some paracord or plastic tubing...as for the actual tag, ballz was onto something - don't laminate per se, just use map talc and punch out holes for the chain.

MM

No, the only way to correctly protect the skin is the liberal use of asphalt undercoating spray on a 6 square inch part of your chest, and 1 inch up and around the neck.

The added bonus would be the protection of your chest from stone chips.

The downside would be looking very odd indeed at the beach.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: George Wallace on April 18, 2010, 14:42:03
.....but think of all the money you'd save not having to wax.   ;D
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: AirBratt on April 20, 2010, 02:06:19
Thanks to all for your input and suggestions. It is appreciated. 
I know it may seem like a joke to some of you but to some of us it can be painful. I am ok touching metals but having extended exposure to them on my skin, especially when sweating, can cause great discomfort.

Thanks again for the advice
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Eye In The Sky on April 20, 2010, 09:02:59
Just a quick note on the Air Force side, assuming you are AF by your name and location  ;D.

If you are aircrew in the future, you must wear them next to skin under your dual layers IAW 1 CAD Flying Orders (can't remember which one off the top of my head) and in the interest of not having para-cord or plastic tubing melt into your skin in the event of fire, you might want to ask your Flight Surgeon or med staff about an alternative solution.  The folks at CFSSAT will tell you that on AMT as well.  They even show you a neat video of an Apache pilot that got brewed up after a fuel spill, and you'll likely not want to have paracord around your neck after you see the results.

But until you are flying/if you are flying, the paracord idea is a great one, I've used it for years now.  The paracord also might help your hair (depending on how long it is) from getting wrapped up around the chain and stuff too.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: AirBratt on April 20, 2010, 22:22:42
Thanks for the advice :D

Although I am airforce I am not flight crew, so dont need to worry about that aspect.

(My mother always said I was a expensive child... And now my husband agrees lol)
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: SGT-RMSCLK on April 20, 2010, 23:19:13
Just my opinion, but unless you have been ordered to wear them, don't.  I haven't seen mine since I graduated from Cornwallis in 84.   No, that's a lie.  I got a new set when we switch to Service Numbers vice SIN.  Either way they're in a box with the other set somewhere.   :)
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Not a Sig Op on April 20, 2010, 23:28:31
Ignoring all the sarcastic replies from people who've obviously never experienced a metals allergy, I too am allergic to my id discs. Specificly, the nickel content in the chain (The id disc itself seems to be nickel free, aluminium if I remember right). Produces a rather nasty eczema rash.

To those making the sarcastic replies, nickel allergies are very real, and not hazardous in any way, just extremely irritating... typically results from direct skin contact with nickel containing metals, for an extended period (If I wear a watch containing nickel, it will produce rash within 20 minutes...). I purchased a titanium watch a while back, which happened to be all titanium with the exception of a few tiny exposed screws... even these produced a nasty rash by the end of the day... all titanium watch now... works great.

To be quite honest, I've solved the problem by just not bothering to wear them. They're around the house somewhere. I had a length of paracord around them with the chain run through the core for the longest time, with the ends of the paracord melted shut, but the ends opened up resulting in a nasty rash on the back of my neck, the ends were then too short to melt back together, and I couldn't be bothered going through the trouble of finding more paracord (hard to get these days). I have no operational need to wear them right now, so I couldn't be bothered.

That being said, if anyone is interested, I looked into the cost of nickel free bead chain... identical in size and appearance to the issued ones, just nickel free.... it's cheap, maybe $1-2 per length, unfortunately, only available in quantities of 100 chains.  Since it's come up, and there's clearly other people beside myself with nickel allergies, if anyone is interested, I'll order the full quantity, and send it out at cost plus the price of a stamp. (With regards to whoever said it was "special metals" they're full of it. It's just regular out steel bead chain, same as what holds on to your bath plug.)

(Side note: http://www.nonickel.com/ is a good source for nickel free belt buckles, etc, I've ordered a few things from them, no more rash on my stomach, hooray!)
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: AirBratt on April 21, 2010, 12:57:17
Thanks !

GLad to know I am not the only person that has this allergy  :D

I'm hoping I can just throw them in a drawer after basic.. lol.
I wasn't sure about that. I know in my dad's time, he had to have his on at all times. But i'm sure things have changed in 16 years lol.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: dangerboy on April 21, 2010, 13:03:14

I'm hoping I can just throw them in a drawer after basic.. lol.
I wasn't sure about that. I know in my dad's time, he had to have his on at all times. But i'm sure things have changed in 16 years lol.

It all depends on your unit and your chain of command.  I have had some that don't care and others that on coy parade would order everyone to pull out their dog tags.  So my advise is don't throw them in a drawer keep them in your wallet or someplace handy as you never know when you need them.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Target Up on April 21, 2010, 13:34:04
Sheesh, whatever happened to keeping them in the back pouch of your respirator carrier with your DT-60 attached?
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Fishbone Jones on April 21, 2010, 15:48:26
Sheesh, whatever happened to keeping them in the back pouch of your respirator carrier with your DT-60 attached?

I still have a set like that! ;D
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: ArmyVern on April 21, 2010, 16:26:31
I still have a set like that! ;D

Me too. A couple of years ago, our CO asked to see our dog tags just before we departed on a BFT work-up ... I was the only one who had mine ... pulling them out of my gas mask carrier to present to him; "WTF is that black thing?" he asks. LOL.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Danjanou on April 21, 2010, 16:46:12
Me too. A couple of years ago, our CO asked to see our dog tags just before we departed on a BFT work-up ... I was the only one who had mine ... pulling them out of my gas mask carrier to present to him; "WTF is that black thing?" he asks. LOL.

Shouldn't this be in the "you're past your prime  when....." thread?

 8)
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: ArmyVern on April 21, 2010, 16:54:44
Shouldn't this be in the "you're past your prime  when....." thread?

 8)

Well no because he was so worried about "what the black thing was" that he never noticed that my discs also had my SIN number on them ...  ;D

I am NOT old - even though I was old enough to have possibly been a babysitter who changed his diaper a few short years ago.  ;D
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Petamocto on April 22, 2010, 19:17:52
... also had my SIN number ...

Social insurance number number?  ;)
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: medicineman on April 22, 2010, 20:28:04
Forget your fibre tabs today  ;)?

MM
Title: Dog tag (or ID tags), more then one?
Post by: SpesWales on January 05, 2011, 16:30:48
when i join as reservist, i would like to know that are we allowed more then one canadian dog tags?
im asking because i saw Supply Sergent selling canadian styled dog tags, i would like to get a pair if i some how lost it or broke the other half and replace it with the bought one or can i get a new one issued? and will i get the option to get it stamped on the new one?
thanks
Title: Re: Dog tag (or ID tags), more then one?
Post by: aesop081 on January 05, 2011, 16:35:45
You will get issued one with the required information on it. If you should lose it, it can be replaced through the CF.

You dont need to be buying one anywhere and you dont need an information stamped on it that isnt on the CF issued one. The information the CF puts on there is all thats required. Any more than that is a security problem.
Title: Re: Dog tag (or ID tags), more then one?
Post by: MikeL on January 05, 2011, 17:06:36
Like Aviator said, you will get issued a pair.  If you go on a tour you will get a second pair issued.  No need to buy your own as the CF supplies them and the replacements. 

And no, the CF will not be upset if you buy your own from a company like Supply Sgt or CP Gear. However, if you get your own done, unless they read like the CF ones(ie same info, in the same place, etc) do not wear them on course, work, etc.
Title: Re: Dog tag (or ID tags), more then one?
Post by: Pusser on January 06, 2011, 01:00:27
On a slightly different note, fight the urge that most newbies have to wear their identity "discs" as if they were jewelry.  It's not nearly as cool as you think it is.   :nod:

Mine stay in a drawer unless I'm deployed.
Title: Re: Dog tag (or ID tags), more then one?
Post by: Sigs Pig on January 06, 2011, 01:28:20
Mine stay in a drawer unless I'm deployed.

Double standard
At my Unit (Reserves), we had a Sgt / RSM that would do the odd spot check to see if the mbrs had their ID discs and ID card... if you didn't produce them, submit a memo on "why you should not be charged".

Then you look around the corner in garrison and see Sr NCMs and officers with shoddy boots, wrinkled uniforms, threads everywhere or not wearing their beret outdoors.... go figure.

ME
Title: Re: Dog tag (or ID tags), more then one?
Post by: Kalatzi on January 06, 2011, 01:43:07
Double standard
At my Unit (Reserves), we had a Sgt / RSM that would do the odd spot check to see if the mbrs had their ID discs and ID card... if you didn't produce them, submit a memo on "why you should not be charged".

Then you look around the corner in garrison and see Sr NCMs and officers with shoddy boots, wrinkled uniforms, threads everywhere or not wearing their beret outdoors.... go figure.

ME

Wrinkled uniforms???

Please please please tell me your referring to DEU

Yes I'm serious

I thought we got rid of this s**t with the move from bush to combats - Frak!!!!
Title: Re: Dog tag (or ID tags), more then one?
Post by: NFLD Sapper on January 06, 2011, 02:29:08
Double standard
At my Unit (Reserves), we had a Sgt / RSM that would do the odd spot check to see if the mbrs had their ID discs and ID card... if you didn't produce them, submit a memo on "why you should not be charged".


Last time I checked, not having your i-card on your person was a chargeable offence but not having your dogtags ???
Title: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: anjp on February 13, 2011, 02:30:42
Anyone have a softcopy of CFAO 26-4 handy?  I'm trying to gather a list of the abbreviations of all the religions that appear on Cdn ID discs.

It seems that the official CFAOs aren't available online (http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/index-eng.asp).   I've searched the forums for CFAO 26-4 but all I can find is an old list (below).  I think there must be a newer version somewhere since I know many individuals with religion abbreviation not included in the list below. 

...Or is this now contained in the DAODs somewhere?

Thanks!

Quote
3.     The religious denomination of the member will be abbreviated as follows:

Anglican ........................... ACC
Atheist, Agnostic, or no religion .. NRE
Baptist ............................ BAPT
Christian Science .................. CS
Greek Catholic ..................... GC
Greek Orthodox ..................... GO
Jewish ............................. JEW
Latter-Day Saints .................. LDS
Lutheran ........................... LUTH
Muslim ............................. MUS
New Apostolic Church ............... NAC
Other Protestant Denomination ...... OPD
Pentecostal ........................ PENT
Presbyterian ....................... PRES
Roman Catholic ..................... RC
Salvation Army ..................... SA
Unitarian Universalist ............. UNI
United Church ...................... UCC
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Simian Turner on February 13, 2011, 02:57:55
This is an excellent resource - Religions in Canada - http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pub/rc/index-eng.asp

As is this one:  Chaplains Manual - http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/cfcb-bsafc/pub/doc/acm-maft-eng.pdf
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: anjp on February 13, 2011, 03:06:03
@Simian - Yes, thanks.  I saw that list as well while browsing... it's much longer than the one I have earlier in this thread but it doesn't include the abbreviations and I do not believe it is a comprehensive list (for ID disc purposes).   For instance, my denomination on my tags doesn't appear on that list...
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: PMedMoe on February 13, 2011, 09:13:52
I found two sites, but they have the same list as you have.

http://www.cadethqcanada.com/history.php (http://www.cadethqcanada.com/history.php)

http://www.ppo-canada.ca/military/tags.htm#8 (http://www.ppo-canada.ca/military/tags.htm#8)
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Strike on February 13, 2011, 09:23:43
anjp - You have to remember that the abbreviations have to be easy to understand, which means they have to represent the most common religions that the CF has dealt with up to this point.  For example, if someone were Shinto and had something like SHIN on their tags, how many people would know what that meant?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Technoviking on February 13, 2011, 09:29:49
In the CF, chaplains are either "Roman Catholic" (due to how many of us breeders there are) and "Protestant" (fairly equivalent to "other", which would include everything from Shinto to the multitude of Christian religions to, well, everything else).  Which denomination were you looking for?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Strike on February 13, 2011, 09:32:46
TV -- Not sure if we currently have them but we do also have allowances for Muslim and Jewish clergy, who can be identified by the symbol on their cap badge.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Technoviking on February 13, 2011, 09:35:14
TV -- Not sure if we currently have them but we do also have allowances for Muslim and Jewish clergy, who can be identified by the symbol on their cap badge.
You're right, we do, but I'm just talking about the "branches" (not the right term) of the Chaplain Branch.  And I think that there are three cap badges; one each for Christian chaplains, Muslim chaplains (Imams) and Jewish chaplains (Rabbis).
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Brihard on February 13, 2011, 09:54:14
You're right, we do, but I'm just talking about the "branches" (not the right term) of the Chaplain Branch.  And I think that there are three cap badges; one each for Christian chaplains, Muslim chaplains (Imams) and Jewish chaplains (Rabbis).

I have to wonder how many sets of ID discs CPgear has done up that say 'JEDI' on them?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: anjp on February 13, 2011, 11:14:33
anjp - You have to remember that the abbreviations have to be easy to understand, which means they have to represent the most common religions that the CF has dealt with up to this point.  For example, if someone were Shinto and had something like SHIN on their tags, how many people would know what that meant?

Hey I didn't make up the abbreviations :) , I'm just looking for the list.  I know that what I've found so far isn't complete, because my denomination isn't on the list.  But it IS on my ID discs...

For those who are curious, I told the clerks back in basic I was part of the associated gospel churches of canada.  I have 'AG' on my discs.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: PMedMoe on February 13, 2011, 11:28:31
So, do they just make stuff up now?    ???

According to both of my links:

Quote
A member claiming a religious affiliation other than those shown above will be classified Other Denomination (OD).

Perhaps they should have used AGC (http://www.agcofcanada.com/).   ;)
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: anjp on February 13, 2011, 11:51:36
Yes AGC seems to make more sense doesn't it?  :)
I know the list I've found and your lists aren't complete as I remember the clerks going through the options, and they included wiccan, rastafarian and a couple other memorable choices.   

It's gotta be somewhere.... I'll keep looking.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Not a Sig Op on February 13, 2011, 12:21:36
Is Jedi an option yet?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Target Up on February 13, 2011, 12:38:26
When I applied and had to list religion, I said C of E, the recruiter said "you mean ACC".  I said "No, I was baptised into the Church of England, that's what my baptism certificate says."  "Same thing" says he.   "Is not" says I. End result- "just put NRE then."
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: George Wallace on February 13, 2011, 12:58:16
Just to add to the confusion, the contractor who makes/produces the ID Discs is notorious for making errors in spelling names.  If your ID Discs have a Religion that is not recognized by the CF stamped on them, then perhaps it is yet another case of the contractor making an error in spelling or perhaps using their own initiative to create an abbreviation. 

Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Shamrock on February 13, 2011, 14:08:42
The relevant section of the CFAO reads:

Quote
RELIGIOUS DENOMINATIONS AND ABBREVIATIONS

3.     The religious denomination of the member will be abbreviated as
follows:

Anglican ........................... ACC
Atheist, Agnostic, or no religion .. NRE
Baptist ............................ BAPT
Christian Science .................. CS
Greek Catholic ..................... GC
Greek Orthodox ..................... GO
Jewish ............................. JEW
Latter-Day Saints .................. LDS
Lutheran ........................... LUTH
Muslim ............................. MUS
New Apostolic Church ............... NAC
Other Protestant Denomination ...... OPD
Pentecostal ........................ PENT
Presbyterian ....................... PRES
Roman Catholic ..................... RC
Salvation Army ..................... SA
Unitarian Universalist ............. UNI
United Church ...................... UCC

4.     A member claiming a religious affiliation other than those shown above
will be classified Other Denomination (OD).

Issued 1989-07-07

However, each base/wing should have its own ident section.  Try giving the MP's a call tomorrow.

I mean... this question has been asked before!  How dare you come in here and not use the search function! 
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: No one on February 13, 2011, 21:52:45
The order page at CP gear includes a couple more in the drop down menu.

http://www.cpgear.com/StoreBox/embr/1040_0.htm

I understand that's hardly official or definitive, but it might help.


Edit: the two additional ones CP gear includes are Buddhist and Hindu.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Rheostatic on March 02, 2011, 10:23:17
Found this, but I don't know the source:
Quote
As of 1 June 2006, the following list of faith groups, and the abbreviations as indicated, are authorized for use for identification purposes within the Canadian Forces. 
Aboriginal Spirituality   ABSP
Anglican Church of Canada   ACC
Associated Gospel   AG
Bahá’í Faith   BAH
Baptist Church   BAPT
Brethren in Christ Church   BREN
Buddhism   BUD
Christian and Missionary Alliance   CMA
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)   DISC
Christian Congregational   CONG
Christian Reformed Church   REF
Christian Science   CS
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints   LDS
Church of the Nazarene   NAZ
Eastern Rite Catholic   CATH
Evangelical Free Church   EFC
Evangelical Missionary Church of Canada   EMC
Hinduism   HIN
Humanist   HUM
Hutterian Brotherhood   HUTT
Islam   ISL
Jehovah’s Witnesses   JEH
Judaism   JUD
Lutheran Church   LUTH
Mennonite Church   MEN
Methodist   METH
New Apostolic Church   NAC
Orthodox (Christian)    ORTH
Pagan   PAG
Pentecostal Assemblies   PENT
Presbyterian Church in Canada   PRES
Rastafarianism   RAS
Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)   RSF
Roman Catholic Church   RC
Salvation Army   SA
Scientology   SCIE
Seventh-day Adventist Church   ADV
Sikhism   SIKH
Unitarian Universalist Church   UNI
United Church of Canada   UCC
Wesleyan Church   WES
Wicca   WIC
Worldwide Church of God   WCG
Zoroastrianism   ZOR
   
Atheist, Agnostic, no religion expressed   NRE
Other Christian Denomination (Protestant)   OPD
Other Eastern religions   EAST
Other religions   OREL
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: anjp on March 02, 2011, 12:36:59
That list looks plausible... and certainly fits the abbreviation on my ID discs.   Where did you find it?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: ivan the tolerable on March 02, 2011, 12:47:37
If it's legit, I like the idea that the Orthodox (Christian) types are recognized as being more than just Greeks.  It was always interesting having "GO" on my dog tags and not being Greek, or even married to a Greek.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Journeyman on March 02, 2011, 12:54:02
Apparently, it doesn't really matter what's on your I disc:
...chicks dig guys in uniforms, so if you join,  wear your dog tags on the outside, everywhere .
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Not a Sig Op on March 02, 2011, 13:27:40
Everywhere.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Rheostatic on March 02, 2011, 21:45:25
That list looks plausible... and certainly fits the abbreviation on my ID discs.   Where did you find it?
Like I said, I don't know the source.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: xXTheOneRavenXx on December 09, 2011, 17:40:48
Good evening,

I have read this topic long ago myself. Being Wiccan myself I have spent a lot more time researching this vary topic. Today I have an answer to my research and your question. CFAO 26-4 does only have a short list of religions for use on the Identity Discs. However that document was last updated 07 July 1989. Since that time CFAO's are no longer updated, but rather replaced by DAOD's. The issuing authority for this CFAO is NDIS (National Defence Identification Services). Through some friendly channels I managed to acquire their number. It turns out they drafted a replacement DAOD for CFAO 26-4 however each time they got someone in that could be the signing authority so that this new document could be assigned a DAOD number and be published, the individual got posted. Here is a bit of good news. That new long list you posted there is now issued by the Chaplain General to the Canadian Forces. I asked NDIS to send me an email with the details, their latest version of the list and an explanation; and they have. So if any of you require this to support approval for any faith on the new list including WIC to be printed on your Identity Discs look for me on military email. My last name is Brigley. I am the only one in the forces.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: MJP on December 09, 2011, 17:43:09
Good evening,

I have read this topic long ago myself. Being Wiccan myself I have spent a lot more time researching this vary topic. Today I have an answer to my research and your question. CFAO 26-4 does only have a short list of religions for use on the Identity Discs. However that document was last updated 07 July 1989. Since that time CFAO's are no longer updated, but rather replaced by DAOD's. The issuing authority for this CFAO is NDIS (National Defence Identification Services). Through some friendly channels I managed to acquire their number. It turns out they drafted a replacement DAOD for CFAO 26-4 however each time they got someone in that could be the signing authority so that this new document could be assigned a DAOD number and be published, the individual got posted. Here is a bit of good news. That new long list you posted there is now issued by the Chaplain General to the Canadian Forces. I asked NDIS to send me an email with the details, their latest version of the list and an explanation; and they have. So if any of you require this to support approval for any faith on the new list including WIC to be printed on your Identity Discs look for me on military email. My last name is Brigley. I am the only one in the forces.

Good work.

Why not just post it on this thread as an attachment?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Towards_the_gap on December 09, 2011, 18:28:05
Out of curiousity, is there any need to have religion on the ID discs any longer? Or is it just an anachronism.

Seeing as, should you fall on some foreign field, I'm pretty sure that no matter what, your mortal remains will be returned home.  I stand-by to be corrected, but I thought the reason religion was on the dog tag was so that back in days of yore (WWI, WWII, Korea, etc), protestants weren't being laid to rest by catholic clergy or vice versa, although I admit I am not elightened as to the cosmic consequences of such a travesty.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: lethalLemon on December 09, 2011, 18:47:09
That's why it's still there even today.

So that Sikhs, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists etc. can be properly laid to rest according to their beliefs.

From my time working at Surrey Memorial Hospital, I learned quickly the different times the morgue is accessed. Islamics are forbidden to be cremated, the body has to be bathed, shrowded and buried so the head faces Mecca. Jewish must have the deceased buried as soon as possible after death.

Sikhs are either cremated or submerged at sea, and headstones are frowned upon and I believe the body has to be cremated and laid to rest by their religious leaders before sunrise if the person died at night, and before sunset if they died at day.

That is why.  :)
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: aesop081 on December 09, 2011, 19:11:47


Seeing as, should you fall on some foreign field, I'm pretty sure that no matter what, your mortal remains will be returned home.

It is still entirely possible that bodies be recovered by enemy forces. They may not be returned home in short order or ever.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Duckie on December 09, 2011, 19:15:18
Having your body returned from overseas is almost impossible during full-scale war. Also, the religion on the id discs is there to make it easier to find the appropriate person to administer last rights (or other religious equivalent) to a dying soldier.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: xXTheOneRavenXx on December 10, 2011, 00:38:18
At first, I didn't realize I could. But I didn't check either. Sorry about that. Here is the doc, but I cannot post peoples contact info because of course we are not allowed to post military email addresses, etc...
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: MJP on December 10, 2011, 00:41:30
Here is the doc, but I cannot post peoples contact info because of course we are not allowed to post military email addresses, etc...
No problem it was the list that pertinent.  Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: muskrat89 on December 10, 2011, 09:56:22
Quote
Also, the religion on the id discs is there to make it easier to find the appropriate person to administer last rights (or other religious equivalent) to a dying soldier

I think that's a good idea in theory but are the Padres (or equivalents) trained or at least familiarized with all of those religions listed? (Not trolling or debating - am genuinely curious). If the lone Wiccan in the CF goes down (sorry Raven) or a Rastafarian - will someone at the appropriate level/position know what to do ?

This is all very interesting to me.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: E.R. Campbell on December 10, 2011, 10:09:32
Many, many years, in fact several decades ago, one of our padres showed me his "field manual" which had an annex with "hints" (directions?) for ministering to Jews and a few other Christian denominations. We were a much more homogenous (generally white, mostly Christian) army back then but I would think (only hope?) that chaplains still have similar "tools."

The topic came up because I had been leading a study group of subalterns preparing for Lt to Capt examinations and I had been teaching them how to figure out which services were part of the Adjutant General's domain - those which deal with the soldier as an individual, and those in the Quartermaster General's bailiwick - those which deal with soldiers as groups. The example I used was that chaplains, ministering to dying soldiers are, properly, an A Staff responsibility, but burials and graves registration, done by or under the supervision of Engineer units, is a Q Staff matter. This led to a discussion of "last rites" and a talk with the padre at lunch.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: jollyjacktar on December 10, 2011, 11:55:13
I think that's a good idea in theory but are the Padres (or equivalents) trained or at least familiarized with all of those religions listed? (Not trolling or debating - am genuinely curious). If the lone Wiccan in the CF goes down (sorry Raven) or a Rastafarian - will someone at the appropriate level/position know what to do ?

This is all very interesting to me.

Raven is not alone.  I ran into another Wiccan in the sandbox, so there are at least two in the CF.  It did occur to me that were I to fall, I would be subjected to a ramp ceremony.  As an atheist, the religious portion would not be welcome but of course I would have no say in the matter.   No escaping it I suppose, protocol goes on even for someone like myself.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: muskrat89 on December 10, 2011, 11:58:43
Jacktar - I know he is not alone, I was light-heartedly referring to an earlier statement he made:
Quote
So if any of you require this to support approval for any faith on the new list including WIC to be printed on your Identity Discs look for me on military email. My last name is Brigley. I am the only one in the forces.

Hypothesizing of course, that if the single, currently-identified Wiccan was to fall, who would know what to do with him?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: PuckChaser on December 10, 2011, 12:20:27
Hypothesizing of course, that if the single, currently-identified Wiccan was to fall, who would know what to do with him?

Wikipedia would!
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: jollyjacktar on December 10, 2011, 12:22:57
I had a bit of a chat about that faith with the Padre at FMF one day.  She indicated that they had some idea of how to deal with it IIRC.  I believe they are going from the US Military who IIRC do have some instructions in that regard.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: GnyHwy on December 10, 2011, 13:13:24
As an atheist, the religious portion would not be welcome but of course I would have no say in the matter.   No escaping it I suppose, protocol goes on even for someone like myself.

More curiosity than anything, but if you don't believe, then you wouldn't think that any ceremony would have positive or negative effects;  it would just be pointless in your mind. Therefore, why does it matter what type of ceremony is done? 

I'm not trying to stir the pot or argue, just curious.  I myself may fall into the Atheist category, although by definition I am probably Agnostic (can't prove or disprove anything, therefore I am on the fence).  Quite frankly, I haven't put a whole lot of seriously thought into it, but what I do know is that I do not rely on blind faith.  To further convolute it, my dogtags state OPD, which is what I am by birth.

That all said, our Padres are an extremely valuable asset in the CF.  Regardless of religion, these people have a wealth of knowledge, not only in religion, but in human nature and psychology as well.  Eventhough, I am not religious, I have had many conversations with Padres of a few denominations, whether it be in passing or for advice.  Each one of those conversations was very informative and enlightening. 
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: jollyjacktar on December 10, 2011, 13:16:36
More curiosity than anything, but if you don't believe, then you wouldn't think that any ceremony would have positive or negative effects;  it would just be pointless in your mind. Therefore, why does it matter what type of ceremony is done? 

I'm not trying to stir the pot or argue, just curious.  I myself may fall into the Atheist category, although by definition I am probably Agnostic (can't prove or disprove anything, therefore I am on the fence).  Quite frankly, I haven't put a whole lot of seriously thought into it, but what I do know is that I do not rely on blind faith.  To further convolute it, my dogtags state OPD, which is what I am by birth.

That all said, our Padres are a extremely valuable asset in the CF.  Regardless of religion, these people have a wealth of knowledge, not only in religion, but in human nature and psychology as well.  Eventhough, I am not religious, I have had many conversations with Padres of a few denominations, whether it be in passing or for advice.  Each one of those conversations was very informative and enlightening.
pm inbound
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Towards_the_gap on December 10, 2011, 13:39:17
To the replies to my post, seen, but the point I was making was that 99% of the time, your NOK will arrange all funeral details for you including what sort of service you wish.

Granted if your remains are 'behind enemy lines' then this may not be possible, but does anyone really expect any future foe to respect religion on a dog tag, and then take the time to bury the individual in accordance with said religion? I don't believe so, however that being said I recognise the ongoing need to keep religion on the discs.

On a somewhat related note, the Royal Engineer JNCO Cadre (British Section 2 IC Course) actually had a PO of 'perform a field burial', the lesson given by the Padre in front of an open grave. Believe it or not, this lesson was actually of some use many years later when dealing with KIA.

Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: aesop081 on December 10, 2011, 13:59:10
but does anyone really expect any future foe to respect religion on a dog tag, and then take the time to bury the individual in accordance with said religion?

Not every potential enemy out there wants to cut your head off on Youtube or drag your body in the streets.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: GnyHwy on December 10, 2011, 14:14:42
Does anyone know the protocol for Athieism? 

If the member doesn't want a ceremony, shouldn't that be respected?

I see the purpose of a ramp ceremony as a way of recognizing and respecting the fallen.  Can this be done without prayer?

Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: E.R. Campbell on December 10, 2011, 15:05:28
The ceremonies around death and burial are not just "for" or even wholly "about" the deceased. They also serve to comfort the living, to help them cope with the shock of the sudden death of a young comrade in arms (most people killed in battle are painfully young). If the deceased is a "registered" Atheist then the officiating officer or padre ought to structure the service so that a god is not invoked on behalf of the dead soldier, but that same officiating officer might well offer a heartfelt prayer for all those who grieve and who seek the comfort of religion.
 
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Redeye on December 10, 2011, 17:28:00
The ceremonies around death and burial are not just "for" or even wholly "about" the deceased. They also serve to comfort the living, to help them cope with the shock of the sudden death of a young comrade in arms (most people killed in battle are painfully young). If the deceased is a "registered" Atheist then the officiating officer or padre ought to structure the service so that a god is not invoked on behalf of the dead soldier, but that same officiating officer might well offer a heartfelt prayer for all those who grieve and who seek the comfort of religion.

The ramp ceremony is fine enough for that. It comes down, in my mind, to leaving clear instructions about your wishes. There's nothing worse than knowing that someone's funerary rites don't respect their beliefs or desires. My wife has a pretty good idea of what I'd want in the event of such an event, but in order to make it simpler, I've got specific instructions left with someone else as to what I want. Since I am an unapologetic atheist, there will be no religious overtone at all - in fact, all I want is to get people together for a party that will get as close to immortality as possible - one last big celebration of my life. Simple. All that matters.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Jarnhamar on December 10, 2011, 21:13:03
If I order ID disc's and put down "IC " under religion will they actually go through the effort of seeing if IC is on the approved list for abrevations?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: FlyingDutchman on December 14, 2011, 23:01:46
Since this is sort of on topic, I also have a question out of curiousity.  Logistics and 'quality' of the remains allowing, how would a person who wished to be cryogenictly frozen be dealt with?

EDIT: Typo
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Blackadder1916 on December 15, 2011, 01:58:02
Since this is sort of on topic, I also have a question out of curiousity.  Logistics and 'quality' of the remains allowing, how would a person who wished to be cryogenictly frozen dealt with?

Probably in the same manner as all other members who die while serving - the NOK are contacted who, (either alone or in conjunction with the executor of the member's estate and depending on how they interpret the deceased wishes) make the arrangements for the deceased's final resting place.  Some of the costs related to the handling of the post-mortem popsicle remains may be reimbursable similar to other funeral/burials expenses as per CBI 210.20 (http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/210-eng.asp).
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: xXTheOneRavenXx on January 05, 2012, 13:30:51
Jacktar - I know he is not alone, I was light-heartedly referring to an earlier statement he made:
Hypothesizing of course, that if the single, currently-identified Wiccan was to fall, who would know what to do with him?

Actually that is a good question. I does become a matter of the ICCMC (Interfaith Committee On Canadian Military Chaplaincy) whose correspondence is the Wiccan Church of Canada. From there they would be able to determine what tradition I follow and what burial rights are required.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: PuckChaser on January 05, 2012, 13:35:55
Since this is sort of on topic, I also have a question out of curiousity.  Logistics and 'quality' of the remains allowing, how would a person who wished to be cryogenictly frozen be dealt with?

Reminds me of a Simpsons episode:

Quote
Smithers: "Mr. Smithers plus guest"...huh.  There's only one person I would want to
bring. [pulls a frozen Mr. Burns from a slot in the wall] Oh, Mr. Burns, we'll thaw you out
the second they discover the cure for seventeen stab wounds in the back.  How're we
doing, boys?
Frink: Well, we're up to fifteen!
Scientists: Yay!
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: xXTheOneRavenXx on January 05, 2012, 13:37:02
If I order ID disc's and put down "IC " under religion will they actually go through the effort of seeing if IC is on the approved list for abrevations?

If you check the list I included in a previous post, those are the authorized abbreviations.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: xXTheOneRavenXx on January 06, 2012, 12:21:00
Jacktar - I know he is not alone, I was light-heartedly referring to an earlier statement he made:
Hypothesizing of course, that if the single, currently-identified Wiccan was to fall, who would know what to do with him?

lol, let me re-word that. I am NOT the only Wiccan in the forces, but I am the only Brigley in the forces.
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: avgpjon on February 20, 2012, 21:39:02
Found this, but I don't know the source:

Interesting to note that the previous designation MUS (Muslim) has been replaced by ISL (Islam).

A Muslim is the person; Islam is the religion.

I wonder what reasoning led to the change?

Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: aesop081 on February 20, 2012, 21:43:46
I wonder what reasoning led to the change?

well.........

A Muslim is the person; Islam is the religion.


Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: GAP on February 20, 2012, 21:50:21
Gee.....you think?
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: Wookilar on February 21, 2012, 09:59:37
For more info, here is the official book for the Padre's (and the rest of us really):
http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/pub/rc/doc/rc-eng.pdf

It does not have the abbreviations, just some brief background on the recognized religions/sects in Canada.

DWAN only so far.

FYI, Wicca starts on p.117  ;D

Wook
Title: Re: CFAO 26-4: ID disc religion
Post by: xXTheOneRavenXx on February 19, 2013, 12:20:52
Also for more information regarding changes to the CF's policy on religious accommodations:
http://www.cadets.ca/regions/eastern/CANFORGEN_162/12_-_RELIGIOUS_ACCOMMODATION_POLICY_FOR_THE_CF/

This is the updated Canforgen until the new DAOD can be finalized and released. However, until then I was told the list of religions I posted earlier is authorized for use on the Identity Discs by the Chaplain General's Office and Identification Services HQ in Ottawa. Many bases have already adopted the new list for use. Greenwood did after I passed this information on to the Wing Chaplain and the OR's.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: joning soon. on July 03, 2015, 21:29:07
Another tip for anyone with ezcema would be seeing a specialist for it, & get a cream for your hands. my father had the same ezcema problem with nickel, & a combination of cream along with gloves kept the skin on his hands from cracking & peeling.
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: LunchMeat on July 03, 2015, 21:55:26
Another tip for anyone with ezcema would be seeing a specialist for it, & get a cream for your hands. my father had the same ezcema problem with nickel, & a combination of cream along with gloves kept the skin on his hands from cracking & peeling.

You do realize that the last post in this thread was 5 years ago.... right?
Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Blackadder1916 on July 03, 2015, 22:42:51
You do realize that the last post in this thread was 5 years ago.... right?

He must be in a time warp today - did the same thing here (http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,93064.msg1375671.html#msg1375671).

Title: Re: Allergic to Dog Tags
Post by: Loachman on July 04, 2015, 02:05:00
His record is eleven years: http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,23364.msg1357611.html#msg1357611
Title: dog tag problem
Post by: SdtRivest97 on June 23, 2016, 15:46:33
so here is the problem, im leaving sunday for my bmq and i just received my dog tag yesterday BUT.. this morning, my litttle brother broke it in half. does it really matters? do i have to order a new at my unit before leaving?

 thanks a lot in advance for all your answers
Title: Re: dog tag problem
Post by: DAA on June 23, 2016, 16:00:46
so here is the problem, im leaving sunday for my bmq and i just received my dog tag yesterday BUT.. this morning, my litttle brother broke it in half. does it really matters? do i have to order a new at my unit before leaving?

 thanks a lot in advance for all your answers

Yes, you should order a new set of tags through your Unit Orderly Room.  In the mean time, just band the two parts together with an elastic band or tape which should hold you over until the replacements arrive.
Title: Re: dog tag problem
Post by: SdtRivest97 on June 23, 2016, 16:05:02
thanks a lot.
Title: Re: dog tag problem
Post by: mariomike on June 23, 2016, 16:07:31
Perhaps Dog Tags are ready for a super-thread,

dog tag problem 
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,123412.0.html

Dog Tags 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,264.275.html
12 pages.


Allergic to Dog Tags 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=93220.0
2 pages.

dog tags and chest hair 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=62731.0
3 pages

Dog tag (or ID tags), more then one?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=98455.0

ID disc
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=99416.0
3 pages.

Identity Discs 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,25476.0/nowap.html
3 pages.

Dog Tag Chain
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=84352.0

etc...



Title: Unknown dog tag religion
Post by: Barracuda on October 11, 2017, 03:36:14
I received a new dog tag, however I can't figure out the religion on it: "SAR". Anyone knows what it is? I am an atheist, so it's weird that I didn't get the "NRE" mark. What do I do if the marked religion is incorrect (not mine)?

Thank you
Title: Re: Unknown dog tag religion
Post by: LunchMeat on October 11, 2017, 04:56:15
I received a new dog tag, however I can't figure out the religion on it: "SAR". Anyone knows what it is? I am an atheist, so it's weird that I didn't get the "NRE" mark. What do I do if the marked religion is incorrect (not mine)?

Thank you

SAR is Salvation Army

Incorrect dog tags are returned, destroyed, and new ones printed. Just inform your section commander/immediate supervisor and they'll get you to fill out a new order form.

Then you wait!
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: CanadianInTexas on October 14, 2017, 21:21:44
Does anyone know what metal the tags are made out of?
I have a contact nickel allergy. Worried that wearing the tags could cause  reaction
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: mariomike on October 14, 2017, 21:33:20
Does anyone know what metal the tags are made out of?
I have a contact nickel allergy. Worried that wearing the tags could cause  reaction

See "Allergic to Dog Tags"

Reply #526
https://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,264.msg1375673.html#msg1375673
Another tip for anyone with ezcema would be seeing a specialist for it, & get a cream for your hands. my father had the same ezcema problem with nickel, & a combination of cream along with gloves kept the skin on his hands from cracking & peeling.
2 pages.

Also Reply #427,

I know this may seem like a really stupid question but...

I am allergic to all metal except for 18k gold, Platinum, or Titanium and I know dog tags are made out of steel, so my question is am I going to broken out in hives for the rest of my career or do they have extenuating circumstances for people like me?
And before anyone suggests it I have tried the clear nailpolish trick and it doesn't work.
I don't know if I can get a set of platinum tags made and get them so engrave all the info.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance  :)

P.S. If this question has already been answered I am sorry... Tried searching for it but didn't find anything close.

Allergic Dog Tags
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+allergic+dog+tags&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+allergic+dog+tags&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.3202.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.jK1WP2hyybI
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Eye In The Sky on October 14, 2017, 22:41:14
Does anyone know what metal the tags are made out of?
I have a contact nickel allergy. Worried that wearing the tags could cause  reaction

You can get plastic 'covers' for the dog tag part...for the chain around the neck, I've always just taken a piece of paracord and stripped the guts out and ran the chain thru that. 

No idea what they're made of, but I get a skin irritation from them too and this has always worked for me. 
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: PuckChaser on October 15, 2017, 00:11:42
I solved the irritation problem by just not wearing my dog tags. They fit nicely in my pocket.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Nerf herder on October 15, 2017, 09:27:47
I solved the irritation problem by just not wearing my dog tags. They fit nicely in my pocket.

I put them in my Velcro pocket in my combat shirt. Easily found and no more worries about them getting tangled up in the tank.

Regards
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Eye In The Sky on October 15, 2017, 09:37:21
Our flying orders are pretty specific;  shall be worn, next to skin (when flying). 
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: George Wallace on October 15, 2017, 10:41:33
You can get plastic 'covers' for the dog tag part...for the chain around the neck, I've always just taken a piece of paracord and stripped the guts out and ran the chain thru that. 

No idea what they're made of, but I get a skin irritation from them too and this has always worked for me.

I got 'surgical hose' from the medics to put chain in......It also helped keep chain from breaking.

If the Dog Tag itself is the problem, a quick fix would be a piece of Gun Tape.

As for placing the Dog Tag in a pocket or other location, that could be problematic when someone is injured and a first responder can not find your tags and Blood Type.  There is a reason it is worn around your neck.  I am surprised at those who suggest otherwise.

While OFF DUTY, my Dog Tags remained at home......NEVER AROUND MY NECK, OUTSIDE MY SHIRT, AT THE DISCO/NIGHTCLUB!    :warstory:
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: RomeoJuliet on October 15, 2017, 10:58:14
I got 'surgical hose' from the medics to put chain in......It also helped keep chain from breaking.

If the Dog Tag itself is the problem, a quick fix would be a piece of Gun Tape.

As for placing the Dog Tag in a pocket or other location, that could be problematic when someone is injured and a first responder can not find your tags and Blood Type.  There is a reason it is worn around your neck.  I am surprised at those who suggest otherwise.

While OFF DUTY, my Dog Tags remained at home......NEVER AROUND MY NECK, OUTSIDE MY SHIRT, AT THE DISCO/NIGHTCLUB!    :warstory:

'DISCO/NIGHTCLUB' better explain that to our millennial members George  >:D
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Jarnhamar on October 15, 2017, 11:00:48
Get your dogtags tattooed on to your chest.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: George Wallace on October 15, 2017, 11:31:53
Get your dogtags tattooed on to your chest.

(https://media1.tenor.co/images/823c337d195b34c9c76b3ed6a20ab2e0/tenor.gif?itemid=5026739)
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: mariomike on October 15, 2017, 11:34:26
Get your dogtags tattooed on to your chest.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22dog+tag%22+tattoo&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTrqG07PLWAhVO5mMKHWFGC8sQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=603
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: George Wallace on October 15, 2017, 11:45:36
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22dog+tag%22+tattoo&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTrqG07PLWAhVO5mMKHWFGC8sQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=603

Sorry to add to that.....A bit morbid; but I had a friend who's ambition to survive WW III was to have his body completely tattooed and live forever as a lampshade in the Soviet Union after his death.   

RIP Lester S.
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: Nerf herder on October 15, 2017, 12:09:56
As for placing the Dog Tag in a pocket or other location, that could be problematic when someone is injured and a first responder can not find your tags and Blood Type.  There is a reason it is worn around your neck.  I am surprised at those who suggest otherwise.

Be surprised all you want George, but I can tell you from experience working alongside medics during a MASCAS as a trained TCCC, they just give you O blood regardless of what is on your tags, if they can be found on your body at all. You'd be surprised what happens to things on your body during a blast.

Even for tracking pers out on the battlefield, we go by different means on top of the tags. Information on who was injured and/or killed is covered better than someone who has a set of tags around their neck.

Dog tags are good to have, but not the be all, end all way to identify someone.

Regards
Title: Re: Dog Tags
Post by: mariomike on October 15, 2017, 12:15:27
Saw this from 2012,

The US Military Wants To 'Microchip' Troops
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-military-wants-to-microchip-troops-2012-5