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Air-Force.ca => Aircrew Trades => Topic started by: J_Muir on July 26, 2006, 10:34:38

Title: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 26, 2006, 10:34:38
Hey guys, i'm a newbie to this forum , although I've be scowering through various threads for the past little while trying to gather as much information as I can before I start my own thread. Please don't simply tell me to search...I might be new to this forum, but I've got about 3000 posts on another on, so I know how annoying it is when an ignorant newb asks basic questions....but bare with me :)

Basically, I have 2 years of university left and have my heart set on joining the Air Force upon finishing my degree. I've decided against ROTP for reasons not worth getting in to, so Direct Entry is the route for me.

Some of the following questions I have already recieved answers for (although sugar-coated by recruiters I'm sure). I'm now looking for some people who have experienced the road from recruitment to Officer Training to Second Language Training all the way up to getting their wings, to help me gather more info.

Firstly, is time frame. What is the realistic time frame from the time you begin Officer Training to the time you recieve your wings? I've heard that there are a lot of breaks in between stages too - how long do those last?

Best case scenario, I'll be flying F-18's (bet you've heard that before). Can anyone with experience or knowledge take me through the steps which you took (or are taking) to reach your goal? ie...Went here to do my 'x' training for 'y' years and then got selected for 'z' ..etc etc.

Finally, does anyone know what the demand for Pilots in the Air Force is right now, or what it will be? For instance, some of my firends are firefighters and tell me how they are by far the youngest guys there. Literally every other firefighter is 40+. So the demand for new guys is huge. Sort of related to that, does anyone know if the addition of some JSF's (if/when it happens) will create more fighter pilot slots?

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate ANY help I get.

-Jeff
Title: Re: Becomming a pilot in the CF.
Post by: Inch on July 26, 2006, 12:04:55
Your first two questions have been answered before, by me. I don't really feel like retyping it for the 3rd time so have a read through my posts, or just search my posts for pilot or something like that.

As for the 3rd question, demand is always there, there is a continuous flow of pilots into and out of the CF.

JSFs? Ha, not for at least 15 years, are you planning on waiting that long?
Title: Re: Becomming a pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 26, 2006, 12:11:13
Thanks a lot, I'll check out your posts.

Ha, not at all! I was just wondering if anyone thought that JSF's would increase the number of slots - unless the F-18's are taken out of service by then.
Title: Re: Becomming a pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 26, 2006, 13:22:05
Anyone else care to share experiences or stories? Hearing he real deal means a lot more than just reading something on the Defence.gov website.
Title: Re: Becomming a pilot in the CF.
Post by: Ditch on July 26, 2006, 15:42:29
Hearing he real deal means a lot more than just reading something on the Defence.gov website.

Stop looking there for one thing...  www.dnd.ca is the place to look, unless you are thinking about going South for employment.

Finish your schooling - in your last year start your application early to CFRC.  Timeline could be as short as 2 years to wings or more probably 3-4 years.  I started BOTC in Oct '99 and received my Wings in Jan'04.

Fighters are cool to look at, fun to fly, but the Helo world has the coolest flying and the Multi-stream pilots see the world.
Title: Re: Becomming a pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on July 26, 2006, 18:12:01
Here it is... LOTS of my friends are going through the different courses right now.  I asked them some questions on your behalf and here are the answers (mixed with my experience)

First of all, you do your Basic Officer Training, in St-Jean for approximately 3 months.  After that, you are given a "number" to Moose Jaw, which is basically your number in the sequence to Basic Flying Training.  While you wait for this, you have to to Second Language Training (St-Jean), Land Survival (Winnipeg), Sea Survival (Comox), Aeromedical Training (Winnipeg) and Primary Flying Training (Portage La Prairie).  Those are the prerequisites for Basic Flying Training (Phase IIA) (In Moose Jaw).  BFT last for 9-12 months, depending on a whole lots of factors.  After this course, you are selected to fly eighter Jets, Multi-Engine aircrafts or Helos. 

Jets
  If you are selected to fly jets, you stay in Moose Jaw for phase IIB, still on the Harvard II.  This is a 3-4 months course.  After that, still in Moose Jaw, you fly the Hawk on the phase III for approximately 6-8 months.  After this course, you are selected to eighter stay in Moose Jaw to become an Instructor or you go to Cold Lake, at 419 Sqn to fly the Hawk on Phase IV (Flighter Lead In Training or FLIT).  I don't know how long this phase is exactly.  After 419 Sqn, you have to go to 410 Sqn (Operational Training Unit or OTU) to convert to the CF-18.  I THINK this is about 6-8 months long.  So, if you are going fighters, you can expect 2.5-3 years of training

Multi-Engine
  If you are selected to fly Multi-Engines, you have to go back to Portage where you are going to fly the King Air for 3-4 months. After your course, you go to your Operational Training Unit to get your qualifications on the airframe you have been selected to fly.  You can expect 1.5-2 years of training if you go Multi.

Helos
  If you are selected to go Helos, you have to go back to Portage where you are going to fly the Jet Ranger for 3-4 months. After your course, you go to your Operational Training Unit to get your qualifications on the airframe you have been selected to fly.  You can expect 1.5-2 years of training if you go Helos.

Now, for the wait... Right now, the wait to go to Moose Jaw is 14-18 months.  I'm number 119 and I'm scheduled to go in August 2007 (I graduated in May 2006).  After Moose Jaw, if you go fighters, there is not much of a wait.  If you go Multi, I've seen people waiting 6-8 months to get in Portage but usualy the wait is approximately 2-3 months.  The reason of the recent huge waiting time was the contract in Portage beeing transfered to Allied Wings.

Hope this helps,

Max

Edited to reflect Zoomie's comment.
Title: Re: Becomming a pilot in the CF.
Post by: Ditch on July 26, 2006, 19:51:28
Pretty close Max - your estimates for the advanced wings training in Portage are about double what it really is.  Expect 3-4 months in Portage.
Title: Re: Becomming a pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on July 26, 2006, 21:56:32
Thanks.  It took 6 months to the last Helo course to complete, probably because of the Allied Wings contract taking over during that time...

Max
Title: Re: Becomming a pilot in the CF.
Post by: Inch on July 26, 2006, 22:52:17
My helo course was 6 months and we finished on schedule. It depends on the time of year you go through, winter courses are always longer due to the weather. Both in MJ and Portage. My course in MJ was 7 1/2 months and I was maybe 6th or so finished of 18, the rest finished anywhere up to 8 months. We started 01 Dec 02 and I finished 16 Jul 03.  Summer courses in MJ are around the 6 month mark, never have I heard of a MJ course lasting longer than 9 months. Portage is 4-6 months. My course started 06 Oct 03 and we got our wings on 02 Apr 04, 4 days short of 6 months. There was Xmas in there so the course was really only about 5 1/2 months long with a 2 week break for the holidays.

In total including my 20 month wait for Moose Jaw, it took just under 5 years for me to get my wings. I was only in College for 8 months of that time. The other 48 or so months was either waiting for courses or on course. Then your OTU could take up to a year to get loaded on and finished.

Realistically, plan for 5 years before you're operational as a DEO entry.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: pipstah on July 27, 2006, 12:14:42
Little heads up from MooseJaw:
New courses will arrive in group of 18... it will be challenging for the school. If you want to go Jets you are really lucky because right now they trying to push people into that community. Looks like that the Top Gun effect is getting weaker. On my course and the other two before mine, people want in majority multi and helo... Usually there's now two or three asking for jets on the whole group. They gave a motivation ride on the F-18 and we got a couples of jets pilots talking about their jobs and try to recruit some guys. I guess the waiting for Moose Jaw will drop pretty fast with the increase of student per course... it is now the double of what the winter course was... Lets hope that Portage gonna be able to handle big group on PFT.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 27, 2006, 12:38:48
Little heads up from MooseJaw:
New courses will arrive in group of 18... it will be challenging for the school. If you want to go Jets you are really lucky because right now they trying to push people into that community. Looks like that the Top Gun effect is getting weaker. On my course and the other two before mine, people want in majority multi and helo... Usually there's now two or three asking for jets on the whole group. They gave a motivation ride on the F-18 and we got a couples of jets pilots talking about their jobs and try to recruit some guys. I guess the waiting for Moose Jaw will drop pretty fast with the increase of student per course... it is now the double of what the winter course was... Lets hope that Portage gonna be able to handle big group on PFT.

So you think that the demand for F-18 pilots is pretty high right now? crap, I wish I could fast-forward my life a couple of years and get right into it.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Aden_Gatling on July 27, 2006, 13:48:31
Here's my experience to date:

Enrolled last September (DEO) and finished BOTC in time for Christmas ... SLT to June (finished early) ... OPME residential Sept-Oct this year (already loaded).

As for future training, I was given this ballpark timeframe (by 1 CAD around a month ago): AMT & Sea Survival this winter, Portage starting March or April next year and Moose Jaw in August ... BSERE (Land Survival) some time next fiscal year as well ... none of that is official or written in stone, of course.

Hopefully that helps give you a bit of an idea where things stand right now.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 27, 2006, 14:01:55
Here's my experience to date:

Enrolled last September (DEO) and finished BOTC in time for Christmas ... SLT to June (finished early) ... OPME residential Sept-Oct this year (already loaded).

As for future training, I was given this ballpark timeframe (by 1 CAD around a month ago): AMT & Sea Survival this winter, Portage starting March or April next year and Moose Jaw in August ... BSERE (Land Survival) some time next fiscal year as well ... none of that is official or written in stone, of course.

Hopefully that helps give you a bit of an idea where things stand right now.

Thanks for the info. So when you're waiting around for various courses to begin, what exactly do you do? Do you come home? Stay and work on a base? If so, where do you live? This is one of my main concerns - what do you do during 'wait time'
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Aden_Gatling on July 27, 2006, 14:12:11
OJT (On the Job Training) ... usually at a base or 1 CAD ... the forms of OJT are really varied: I am working in the recruiting office in Vancouver, mostly doing clerk-type stuff, but there's lots of more interesting things to do as well.  Living in the old apartment right now, but moving to the PMQs in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 27, 2006, 14:23:30
OJT (On the Job Training) ... usually at a base or 1 CAD ... the forms of OJT are really varied: I am working in the recruiting office in Vancouver, mostly doing clerk-type stuff, but there's lots of more interesting things to do as well.  Living in the old apartment right now, but moving to the PMQs in a few weeks.

Again, thanks for the info man.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is 1 CAD and PMQ? Do you get much of a choice with OJT (ie, maybe something that relates to what you want to do), or do they send you wherever they want?

Out of curiosity, what would you like to fly when all is said and done?
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Aden_Gatling on July 27, 2006, 14:43:57
1 CAD = Canadian Air Division in Winnipeg ... Air Force HQ
PMQ = Personal Married Quarters ... DND owns housing at various locales around the country which serving members can rent http://www.cfha-alfc.forces.gc.ca/info/aboutcfha_e.asp

During SLT we were each given a form on which to write our top - 3 choices for OJT, as well as other factors (i.e., family status, eduction, etc.) ... it sounded like most people were pretty happy with what they got (I am!) ... there are also OJT opportunities at the Canadian Space Agency in St. Hubert, but most required an Engineering degree (or similar): I went on the information tour just for the hell of it, and it looked like some pretty interesting stuff.

I really want to fly Jets, or Multi, or Helos ... Jets will be (I think) my first choice, but I'll be damned happy flying just about anything for a living ...
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 27, 2006, 16:11:26
I really want to fly Jets, or Multi, or Helos ... Jets will be (I think) my first choice, but I'll be damned happy flying just about anything for a living ...

Right on man! Jets will absolutely be my first pick, but to fly anything for a career is a dream come true.

What were some of the choices for OJT that you can remember?
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Ditch on July 27, 2006, 17:12:55
J_Muir - OJT choices are varied and really up to you as the OJTer.   What city do you live in?  Do you want to stay at home?  Are your married?  If you want to fly Hornets, you can get an OJT at an operational fighter squadron.  You will be La Reine du Photocopier - but at least you will be able to fly in a Bravo.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 27, 2006, 17:22:48
J_Muir - OJT choices are varied and really up to you as the OJTer.   What city do you live in?  Do you want to stay at home?  Are your married?  If you want to fly Hornets, you can get an OJT at an operational fighter squadron.  You will be La Reine du Photocopier - but at least you will be able to fly in a Bravo.

I live in Calgary at the moment...2 more years  of university left....i'll be 24 when I'm done, so probably not married. I would love to stay at home, but I would love even more to fly hornets....big time. I would not only photcopy, I'd also staple and stamp anything they threw at me if it meant being around F-18's....gives me shivers just thinking about it.

Thats good to know though..thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on July 27, 2006, 18:03:33
Once you fly in one you realize it's just an other plane except it is very small, you can't stop sweating, it goes fast but you can't realize it unless you are doing low level supersonic flights, and then you realize pilots only get 180 hrs a year and a LOT of paperwork.  ;)

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 28, 2006, 14:43:13
Once you fly in one you realize it's just an other plane except it is very small, you can't stop sweating, it goes fast but you can't realize it unless you are doing low level supersonic flights, and then you realize pilots only get 180 hrs a year and a LOT of paperwork.  ;)

Max

Are you for real? 180 hrs/year? Can anyone else shed some light on this?

I want to fly commercial some day down the road, so maybe jets aren't the best way to log a lot of hours...
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: TheCheez on July 28, 2006, 16:35:36
The figure varies from year to year but that's a decent estimate. Consider than with jets your usual training mission is ~1.5 hours.  Next consider that you're at work 170-175 days a year or so. Add in various deployments, weather days, maintenance probs, QRA duty and most importantly ground duties its hard to rack up huge hours. Its not like the civy world where you do the milk run for 7 hours a day on autopilot. If you're looking to fly 1000 hours per year, honestly you're barking up the wrong tree with the CF. I would recommend doing a little more investigating to the real life of the various communities you might find yourself in and the type of flying and lifestyle you're getting into.

EDIT: Sorry I'm having a math issue today. You can expect to work ~210 days not 170 assuming you actually stay away during leave/weekends. Also I cant speculate accurately on the other communities as I really dont know. The instructors in MJ rack em up pretty quick though.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 28, 2006, 16:47:36
The figure varies from year to year but that's a decent estimate. Consider than with jets your usual training mission is ~1.5 hours.  Next consider that you're at work 170-175 days a year or so. Add in various deployments, weather days, maintenance probs, QRA duty and most importantly ground duties its hard to rack up huge hours. Its not like the civy world where you do the milk run for 7 hours a day on autopilot. If you're looking to fly 1000 hours per year, honestly you're barking up the wrong tree with the CF. I would recommend doing a little more investigating to the real life of the various communities you might find yourself in and the type of flying and lifestyle you're getting into.

I'm not looking to get that many hours per year. Just that most airlines require a minimum of 1000 hours - minimum being the key word. How many hours do pilots in the CF log on other aircraft?

Thanks for the info by the way
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Ditch on July 28, 2006, 18:41:49
If you want hours - don't even think of fighters.  Think more along the lines of Maritime Patrol (aka CP-140 Aurora) or Tactical Airlift (aka CC-130 Hercules).

Irregardless - even if you average only 300 hrs/year and owe the CF 7 years after Wings, simple math shows  you should amass close to 2100 hrs.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Astrodog on July 29, 2006, 13:29:41
Just from my speakings with a hornet driver who is currently on the FWIC... the average hop for a hornet driver is roughly 0.8 to 1.0.. but as he told me they are 'quality hours'! Though there is also a downside to that, as the pilot who was doing OJT at CFRC London told me, you are pretty much living an MJ style life year round, the flying, planning and academics are absolutely hair on fire intense (She also told me that 5 of 11 slots on MJ were jets... i wanted to 'fast forward my life as well), and as the hornet driver told me you have to have an undying passion for flying fighters or you will be miserable... I'm in the same boat as you J_Muir, currently in the recruitment process dying to fly Jets, hit me up with a PM...
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Good2Golf on July 30, 2006, 00:21:43
Don't forget the "stick to brief/debrief" ratio.  Fighter guys "rule" on that one... ;D
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Dizzy on July 30, 2006, 10:25:33
Just that most airlines require a minimum of 1000 hours

  If you're looking for an airline job after you complete your mandatory service - be prepared to slash your lifestyle. Most airlines have a starting salary that may make you baulk. Rumour has it lots of reg force pilots are turning down Air Canada because they don't feel like making half their current pay for the first year.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on July 30, 2006, 10:49:52
The best deal is staying A class reserve and flying full time for Air Canada ;)

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on July 30, 2006, 12:25:21
The best deal is staying A class reserve and flying full time for Air Canada ;)

Max

Wow, I had no idea you could do that here (I know you can in the US). Thanks for that information man!
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Moody on July 30, 2006, 12:42:34
  If you're looking for an airline job after you complete your mandatory service - be prepared to slash your lifestyle. Most airlines have a starting salary that may make you baulk. Rumour has it lots of reg force pilots are turning down Air Canada because they don't feel like making half their current pay for the first year.

Or less. ( I heard Jazz Pilots made in the 30-40K range to start; I might be wrong.) Not to mention, big red can and will lay you off if need be...
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Good2Golf on July 30, 2006, 12:58:53
Guys who want to pick up time explicitly to to go to the airlines should do a "business case" to determine if the lifestyle and financial factors play out the way you think you might them to in the future.  I know a lot of guys who are now top dog (senior guys who bid on "good go's" like A330/340 out of Toronto for Bejing, etc...) and the coin is pretty darned good.  It is also absolutely true that you take a not insignificant dip (plummet?) in pay in the early years of airline life (things like first officer on Dash-8 or CRJ, etc...)

If someone plans on finishing off the time they owe to the Queen at the end of their contract...nothing at all wrong with that.  If it's about money, there are other ways to make even more money than becoming an airborne bus driver...no effense to my AC buddies, but they tell me that's exactly what they do, whether you bid layover as a young guy trying to do the Austin Powers thing, or bid productivity to max your days on the golf course. 

In the end, it's probably more a lifestyle choice than a monetary one, when you get right down to it.  Folks that run on a monetary model alone should probably not be in the military (certainly not as a dedicated career soldier).

Mein zwei centen,
Duey
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on July 30, 2006, 13:51:30
I don't think people are in the military for the money but it certainly is important.  Your lifestyle depends to a certain extent on the money you make.  I tell you right now, if the military didn't pay a dime, I wouldn't be in the military.

Having said that, I think your employment should be based on what you want to do, what you like to do, what you want to get and what are your chances of advancements.  Anyways, this is the way I see things... 

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Ditch on July 30, 2006, 15:02:09
The best deal is staying A class reserve and flying full time for Air Canada ;)

Not as easy as you think Max. "A" class  positions are rare in the AF and rarely have anything to do with being a Pilot.  We have one  "B"Class  flying pilot at our Squadron - the "A" class Pilots all fly desks.  A maximum of 12 paid days per month will not give you enough time to maintain your flying quals and all your secondary duties.

If you want to push buttons for a living and wear a suit to work - Big Red is your calling.  If you want to really fly and have some say into what you do and where you go - military aviation is the community for you.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on July 30, 2006, 16:38:36
Hi Zoomie.  I'm at 402 Sqn right now (a Total Force Squadron) and we have SEVERAL of those guys, even some that have never done reg force.  My wife might go through the same thing.  Those people are considered experienced pilots and by pass Moose Jaw and go straight to the King Air then Dash 8.  We also have a lots of retired people on class A and B.  Most of the Class A people fly for civilian companies.

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Ditch on July 30, 2006, 20:30:53
Seen Max - 402 is an odd-ball when it comes to that...  Guys like Jim (no last names) who already fly for Big Red and want to experience real flying are a good asset for the CF.  We can get them to back-fill a rather benign job like training baby-navigators, freeing up CF Pilots for more operational duties. 
For the un-informed, these pilots cannot go anywhere else and are restricted to flying the Dash-8 only.  If they want to fly any other piece of kit, they need to join the Reg Force and go through all the pilot training.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: ark on July 31, 2006, 13:27:02
J_Muir - OJT choices are varied and really up to you as the OJTer.   What city do you live in?  Do you want to stay at home?  Are your married?  If you want to fly Hornets, you can get an OJT at an operational fighter squadron.  You will be La Reine du Photocopier - but at least you will be able to fly in a Bravo.

Do you get to jump from one OJT to another in a different location or are you stuck with the same one from day one until you get your wings?
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Good2Golf on July 31, 2006, 13:41:07
Do you get to jump from one OJT to another in a different location or are you stuck with the same one from day one until you get your wings?

Depends on the unit you're doing OJT at.  I worked with one OJT here to transfer to another unit, but he was still considered posted to the unit here, and only attach posted to the other unit (i.e. no formal move, etc... at the end of his OJT, he still has to clear out through this unit).  It is more acceptable between gaining/losing units if there are no additional costs; there can be and this would come out of one of the unit's budgets, not the career managers pot.  That's why it usually happens only in exceptional cases.

Cheers,
Duey
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Baden Guy on August 06, 2006, 20:34:57
Calgary, experiencing dramatic growth, an economic and business powerhouse within Canada now and for the future. Alberta finally gaining the political power it has sought since it's inception. A smart young man native to the province, graduating with a university education into this hotbed of capitalism and opportunity. But he chooses to move away from all these possibilities and opportunity, choosing a career path followed by less that one percent of Canadians.
Canada's military during the Cold War presented little chance to be killed or to kill others. Now we see 23 Canadian deaths and counting in a cause while admireable may not be achievable through military means.
Canadians are now realizing that the purpose of a military force is to "break things and kill people."
I am retired after a 27 year career and support our troops and feel the loss each time we experience another death.
Many people enter the military seeking an education or career training. To enter with a university education and the potential of a life with a job, a family and a career, not so common.
I wish you nothing but the best Mr. Muir but consider your choices carefully.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 07, 2006, 13:40:53
Calgary, experiencing dramatic growth, an economic and business powerhouse within Canada now and for the future. Alberta finally gaining the political power it has sought since it's inception. A smart young man native to the province, graduating with a university education into this hotbed of capitalism and opportunity. But he chooses to move away from all these possibilities and opportunity, choosing a career path followed by less that one percent of Canadians.
Canada's military during the Cold War presented little chance to be killed or to kill others. Now we see 23 Canadian deaths and counting in a cause while admireable may not be achievable through military means.
Canadians are now realizing that the purpose of a military force is to "break things and kill people."
I am retired after a 27 year career and support our troops and feel the loss each time we experience another death.
Many people enter the military seeking an education or career training. To enter with a university education and the potential of a life with a job, a family and a career, not so common.
I wish you nothing but the best Mr. Muir but consider your choices carefully.


I completely understand what you're saying and can see why it seems like a not so common choice, given my circumstances. Basically, it comes down to a few points for me as to why I want to do it.

- I love flying and have always wanted to make a career out of it via the airforce
- I've always felt drawn toward the military
- I feel like the Canadian military need people like me *

* When I say 'people like me', I dont mean to sound arrogant. I think that people who join the military with a degree from a civy university are more likely to be highly motivated than someone who went through RMC and has a contract to honour. I'm only speculating here, but in general, I think that's maybe how it is.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Torlyn on August 07, 2006, 15:13:45
* When I say 'people like me', I dont mean to sound arrogant. I think that people who join the military with a degree from a civy university are more likely to be highly motivated than someone who went through RMC and has a contract to honour. I'm only speculating here, but in general, I think that's maybe how it is.

As a DEO, I call BS.  I'm highly motivated not because I got my degree on my own.  I'm highly motivated because I love what I'm here for, and I motivate myself accordingly.  We have a pile of RMC kids going through the ropes here right now, and they are no differently motivated than those of us who got our civvie degrees first.  You will see people trying to buck the system on both ends.  You will find good and bad sailors and soldiers regardless of their entry program.  Do not come in with any sort of preconceived opinions about DEO vs RMC vs CFR's, it will be more harmful than helpful.

Know why YOU want to be here, and worry about YOU.  The military will tell you when it's time to start worrying about others, and believe me, it'll be a while.

T
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 07, 2006, 15:30:27
As a DEO, I call BS.  I'm highly motivated not because I got my degree on my own.  I'm highly motivated because I love what I'm here for, and I motivate myself accordingly.  We have a pile of RMC kids going through the ropes here right now, and they are no differently motivated than those of us who got our civvie degrees first.  You will see people trying to buck the system on both ends.  You will find good and bad sailors and soldiers regardless of their entry program.  Do not come in with any sort of preconceived opinions about DEO vs RMC vs CFR's, it will be more harmful than helpful.

Know why YOU want to be here, and worry about YOU.  The military will tell you when it's time to start worrying about others, and believe me, it'll be a while.

T

Like I said, I was just speculating. I dont know enough about it to make objective statements. I was just trying to get my point across - that the military needs motivated people like myself, regardless of background.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: jmnavy on August 07, 2006, 15:57:13
I finally got my transfer to go through so I'm another DEO pilot, leaving for botc in 3 weeks.   Any advice on which bases would be good for experiencing tac hel during the pre-portage OJT months?  I understand I have some say in where I'll be put after botc and I'm trying to figure out what my choices would be.  I've seen the list of bases on dnd.ca but I've never been to most of them, only borden and valcartier.
Thanks
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Baden Guy on August 07, 2006, 17:01:20
Like I said, I was just speculating. I dint know enough about it to make objective statements. I was just trying to get my point across - that the military needs motivated people like myself, regardless of background.

   Point taken. And by the way some DEO's have done quite well for themselves:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hillier
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 07, 2006, 17:50:40
After passing ACS, how long until a person begins Officer training, SLT and Primary flight training?
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Ditch on August 07, 2006, 17:56:38
After passing ACS, how long until a person begins Officer training, SLT and Primary flight training?

It all depends on when the next Pilot Selection board is sitting.  They only sit once or twice a year AFAIK.

Don't expect a summer BOTC - most likely start dates will be Sept or Jan.

September BOTC start timeline would be as such.

Basic Training (IAP, BOTP, whatever it is called this week) - Sept - Dec
Second Language Training (if the AF decides to send you) Jan - Aug
Air Force OPME residential program - Sept - Oct (if PFT not on the horizon)
Primary Flight Training - Oct - Dec (if loaded immediately).

*edit- Just fixed your quotes Z.  ;)
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 07, 2006, 18:14:31
Quote

It all depends on when the next Pilot Selection board is sitting.  They only sit once or twice a year AFAIK.

Don't expect a summer BOTC - most likely start dates will be Sept or Jan.

September BOTC start timeline would be as such.

Basic Training (IAP, BOTP, whatever it is called this week) - Sept - Dec
Second Language Training (if the AF decides to send you) Jan - Aug
Air Force OPME residential program - Sept - Oct (if PFT not on the horizon)
Primary Flight Training - Oct - Dec (if loaded immediately).

Thanks, good to know. I probably need to get in contact with a recruiter about this, but I'll ask anyway - Is it possible to send in my application for ACS before I have a physical copy of my degree. Because what I'd like to do is send it all in just as I'm finishing school so that I can pretty much head straight into it, rather than waiting around for convocation to finish. Basically, just speeding things up from my end.

*edit - quotes fixed.  ;)
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: jmnavy on August 07, 2006, 19:16:13
They never asked me for a copy of my degree, only for my university transcript.  Right now mine says that my program has been completed but that my degree has yet to be conferred and that seems to be enough for them, so it's doubtful that you'd have to wait for your convocation.

As far as timelines go, if you're going to finish your degree in april 08 (you said 2 years left right?) and want to do botc in september, then I'd start the application process by late 07.   Here's roughly the timeline I've been through leading up to botc this september.

Sep 05 Submitted application
Nov 05 Medical
Dec 05 Optometrist exam
Feb 06 ACS
Apr 06 Interview/fitness test
June 06 Board sits
July 06 Job offer
Aug 06 Swearing in ceremony
Sep 06 BOTC

The order's a little different for me than it will be for you.  Because I was a transfer I didn't have to do my interview and fitness until after acs, you'll have to do it before.  You'll also have to write an aptitude test early on in the process.  Generally the two steps that put a halt to most people are the optometrist's exam and ACS.  Not much you can do about the first, but for getting through ACS there are a couple of good threads out there.  Your recruiting centre should also give you a study guide when the time comes.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 07, 2006, 20:06:56
They never asked me for a copy of my degree, only for my university transcript.  Right now mine says that my program has been completed but that my degree has yet to be conferred and that seems to be enough for them, so it's doubtful that you'd have to wait for your convocation.

As far as timelines go, if you're going to finish your degree in april 08 (you said 2 years left right?) and want to do botc in september, then I'd start the application process by late 07.   Here's roughly the timeline I've been through leading up to botc this september.

Sep 05 Submitted application
Nov 05 Medical
Dec 05 Optometrist exam
Feb 06 ACS
Apr 06 Interview/fitness test
June 06 Board sits
July 06 Job offer
Aug 06 Swearing in ceremony
Sep 06 BOTC

The order's a little different for me than it will be for you.  Because I was a transfer I didn't have to do my interview and fitness until after acs, you'll have to do it before.  You'll also have to write an aptitude test early on in the process.  Generally the two steps that put a halt to most people are the optometrist's exam and ACS.  Not much you can do about the first, but for getting through ACS there are a couple of good threads out there.  Your recruiting centre should also give you a study guide when the time comes.

Thanks for the info man, I really appreciate it. So did you get contacted with direction to get a medical and to see an optometrist? I assume after they recieved your application, they sent you a response requesting those tests and then you sent them the results when they were complete - and then they gave you your ACS date.

I've read up a lot on ACS. Sounds like it has potential to actually be a fun time (more so if you pass!) How did you make out at ACS? What did you find the most challenging parts? Anything you would have prepared for more? Do you actually find out the same day if you passed? Finally, if you pass ACS, what sorts of things does the board look at when deciding upon what to offer you? I mean if you pass, you pass right?...or do they disect each portion of ACS and decide from there?

Thanks again
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: jmnavy on August 07, 2006, 21:54:40
ACS was tough, mostly because it's so much waiting.  Day 2 in particular was just 2 one hour simulator sessions and a bunch of waiting around.  I think I showed up as well prepared as anyone even though I only have a few hours of actual flying experience.  The rest was a lot practicing on ms flight simulator using a usb yoke and pedals (see the link I posted above for info about them).  I also booked a few simulator lessons at a flight school in town with an instructor which was a big help.

I don't know what the board looks at but one of the guys who passed ACS with me was later rejected as a ROTP candidate.  My understanding from speaking to one of the guys at the recruiting centre about it was that this year was a very competitive year for rotp pilot and he just didn't make the grade, but I don't know what specifically did it for him.  The moral of the story is that every step is important.

When you start the process I do have this advice for you; keep in touch with your recruiting centre regularly.  Call them or see them in person ("I was in the area") every three or four weeks to ask a couple of questions and get an update.  There's a balance to strike between being proactive and being a pest of course (if you call and they recognize your name, that's good.  If they recognize your voice, that's very bad), but it's a long process so building a relationship of sorts with your recruiting centre is important.

Edit: Here's the link I meant to reference regarding the usb yoke and pedals.  http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,36026.0.html (http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,36026.0.html)
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: inferno on August 08, 2006, 03:34:53
What JMnavy said is important.

Definitely keep in touch. I think I only got called once or twice during the entire process. Most of the time I'd call up, and when I said my name the clerk (I don't know if I was lucky, but in my opinion I had a great clerk) would instantly recognise it and ask me how school was going, and so on.

After that she'd say.. "Oh.. btw, I have your... blank.. here and you can come pick it up.. drop it off." whatever needed to be done.

I was very surprised after my first few calls. Definitely made me feel like they were looking out for my file, and I wasn't just another peice of paper in a desk drawer. I don't know if its just for applicants that are more involved.. (eg. have to go to ACS.. or any other extra testing/paperwork) but by the time I finished, when I walked into the center, the Lt.(N), the Clerk, and her assistant would all recogise me, say hello.. ask how school/acs/eye tests... and so on were going or went. Seemed genuinely happy when I came into the recruiting center with a HUGE grin after going to ACS. :)
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 08, 2006, 12:59:41
Can anyone provdie details as to what PFT is like? Is it a lot of academics or more flying - or a heavy mix of both? Also, how do you get evaluated during primary flight training? Tests? Instructor 'report cards'? I'm curious to know.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 08, 2006, 15:05:58
PFT, what a great time  ;D

The first 2 weeks are purely academics (ground school).  You learn Piston Engineering, Aerodynamics, Meteorology, AOIs (Aircraft Operating Instructions), Instrumentation, Procedures and Flight Safety (I might miss something here...).  It's 8 hours of classroom time every day.  There is a prog test and a final test on every subject.  The average for the class is usualy 93-95%. 

After those 2 weeks, you hit the flight line.  You are evaluated on every single flight and you have to meet a certain standard in order to do the next flight.  If you don't meet the standard, you have to do an extra dual.  Obviously, you don't have as many as you want... I think you are alowed to have 20% of the total flight time of the course for Extra Flights (Re-tests and ED).  You also have 2 flight tests, the first beeing the Initial ClearHood Test (ICHT).  Once you passed that, you do your first solo.  The Final ClearHood Test is the last flight of the course and evaluates pretty much all you learned.  There is approx. 27 Flight Hours of which 4.5 are solo (those numbers might have changed since I've done the course)

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 08, 2006, 17:08:30
PFT, what a great time  ;D

The first 2 weeks are purely academics (ground school).  You learn Piston Engineering, Aerodynamics, Meteorology, AOIs (Aircraft Operating Instructions), Instrumentation, Procedures and Flight Safety (I might miss something here...).  It's 8 hours of classroom time every day.  There is a prog test and a final test on every subject.  The average for the class is usualy 93-95%. 

After those 2 weeks, you hit the flight line.  You are evaluated on every single flight and you have to meet a certain standard in order to do the next flight.  If you don't meet the standard, you have to do an extra dual.  Obviously, you don't have as many as you want... I think you are alowed to have 20% of the total flight time of the course for Extra Flights (Re-tests and ED).  You also have 2 flight tests, the first beeing the Initial ClearHood Test (ICHT).  Once you passed that, you do your first solo.  The Final ClearHood Test is the last flight of the course and evaluates pretty much all you learned.  There is approx. 27 Flight Hours of which 4.5 are solo (those numbers might have changed since I've done the course)

Max

Thanks Max.

So I take it PFT is 100% business then..no dickin around kinda deal - probably no time to anyways! With averages of 93-95%, sounds like when you're not in class, you're studying the material. Do many people flunk out at this stage or what?

I think i'd like the idea of being confined to learning and studying like that. Here at home, there are so many damn distractions at times and very little studying gets done unless i lock myself in  my room.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 08, 2006, 17:20:22
Actually it's pretty easy to get those averages... If you work at it everynight.

I used to study 4 hrs a night during ground school, watch a little bit of TV, exercise every day, go out on the week ends and get a 99% average.  I have never heard of anyone failing the ground school. (you need 75% on most of the tests to pass and 85% and 90% on some of them)

During the flying phase, I'd study 4 hrs a night as well and chair fly a LOT, go in the plane if I wasn't flying during the day and practice procedures with a friend.  If you do what you are told to to during this phase, there isn't going to be a problem I think.  Sometimes, hard working people just won't make it.  You still need to have some kind of motor skills in order to succeed. Sometimes, people that should fail, pass and people that should pass, fail....

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 08, 2006, 17:39:29
Actually it's pretty easy to get those averages... If you work at it everynight.

I used to study 4 hrs a night during ground school, watch a little bit of TV, exercise every day, go out on the week ends and get a 99% average.  I have never heard of anyone failing the ground school. (you need 75% on most of the tests to pass and 85% and 90% on some of them)

During the flying phase, I'd study 4 hrs a night as well and chair fly a LOT, go in the plane if I wasn't flying during the day and practice procedures with a friend.  If you do what you are told to to during this phase, there isn't going to be a problem I think.  Sometimes, hard working people just won't make it.  You still need to have some kind of motor skills in order to succeed. Sometimes, people that should fail, pass and people that should pass, fail....

Max

Thanks again Max,

I guess when you're getting paid to study and learn new material, it makes it a lot easier to buckle down. If only I got paid at civy univiversity right now!! Not to mention, when you actually ENJOY what you're studying and learning about - that makes things whole lot easier as well.

I imagine Moose Jaw and any proceeding flying courses after that follow the same trend then. Ground school, tests, flying, tests etc etc.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 08, 2006, 17:44:23
Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 08, 2006, 17:54:13
Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max

Yeah I can well imagine, as this is basically the stage which decides what you'll be flying for the rest of your career. So are you currently doing OJT somewhere? What do they have you doing?
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 08, 2006, 18:14:52
I'm at 402 Squadron in Winnipeg (they fly the Dash 8).  I work the OPS desk as most of the pilot OJTs.  I get to fly a lot (well, as much as I want) and go to various airshows (going to Abbotsford Airshow this weekend).  I will soon be doing AMT, SERE and Sea Survival as well as a Basic Electronic Warfare Course I requested to do.

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 08, 2006, 18:29:43
I'm at 402 Squadron in Winnipeg (they fly the Dash 8).  I work the OPS desk as most of the pilot OJTs.  I get to fly a lot (well, as much as I want) and go to various airshows (going to Abbotsford Airshow this weekend).  I will soon be doing AMT, SERE and Sea Survival as well as a Basic Electronic Warfare Course I requested to do.

Max

Right on. That's great you get to fly a lot.

So do you actually live on the base or what? I mean, I most likely will not have a family to worry about at the time, so would not require a house to live in. I haven't got many answers regarding this. Are there dorm-like quarters or what? - I really have no idea what to expect when it comes to that aspect of lifestyle during OJT. Also, are living quarters paid for? What about food and what not? This is one area of 'the process' i'm completely ignorant about.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Inch on August 08, 2006, 18:34:03
Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max

You actually do this for 8 weeks or so.

You do 3 weeks of AOI, aerodynamics and met classes, then you do 5 cockpit trainers in the Harvard Simulators as well as egress training and a few more classes. Then week 5 you hit the flight line for half day flying and half day ground school for 8 weeks. I think in total we did 16 weeks of ground school, quite a bit but reasonable when you consider that you go from know nothing about instrument flying to knowing enough to get an instrument rating.

As for the intensity, this varies greatly from person to person based on your ability to retain what you've learned as well as what your level of knowledge was before hand. I didn't find it all that bad at all after the first 3 weeks because of my Aviation College background and my civilian instrument rating. So while some guys would come back from the glass palace (Col OB Complex, the home of 2CFFTS) and then study the night away, I was free most nights unless we had a test the next day or I was helping out one of the guys.

Right on. That's great you get to fly a lot.

So do you actually live on the base or what? I mean, I most likely will not have a family to worry about at the time, so would not require a house to live in. I haven't got many answers regarding this. Are there dorm-like quarters or what? - I really have no idea what to expect when it comes to that aspect of lifestyle during OJT. Also, are living quarters paid for? What about food and what not? This is one area of 'the process' i'm completely ignorant about.

Have a read through the recruiting FAQ, that's all been answered before in great detail.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 08, 2006, 18:39:48
I'll answer his questions anyways ;)

I chose to live in the PMQs because I have a wife.  You can choose to live in the Quarters on the base and eat at the Officer's mess.  I head it is VERY expensive here.  You are given a salary (3200$ a month for a DEO I think) and you have to pay taxes, quarters, rations, everything...  The Quarters are basically a room and a washroom.  I don't know much about them since I havent been in one yet..

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Inch on August 08, 2006, 19:30:49
I'll answer his questions anyways ;)

I chose to live in the PMQs because I have a wife.  You can choose to live in the Quarters on the base and eat at the Officer's mess.  I head it is VERY expensive here.  You are given a salary (3200$ a month for a DEO I think) and you have to pay taxes, quarters, rations, everything...  The Quarters are basically a room and a washroom.  I don't know much about them since I havent been in one yet..

Max

They're quite good, in fact, they were the best I've ever been in during my 7 years in the CF. Quarters will cost you around $200 a month and rations are probably around $350 a month these days. From my mid-Jun 2003 pay statement I was paying $217 for quarters and $302 for rations.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 08, 2006, 20:04:24
I heard 450 for quarters and 500 for food as of july 2006...  VERY expensive (more than a Q in my opinion)

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 08, 2006, 21:03:36
Could someone explain to me what exactly is included in a guys 'rations'? Or dare I ask? ;D
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SHELLDRAKE!! on August 08, 2006, 21:07:13
For officers, mostly caviar and chateau briand
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Magravan on August 08, 2006, 21:08:29
For officers, mostly caviar and chateau briand

I  wonder if it is too late to change to NCM?  >:D
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 08, 2006, 21:13:35
rations is 3 meals a day basically :)

I heard it's good enough here!

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Moody on August 08, 2006, 22:13:31
I heard 450 for quarters and 500 for food as of july 2006...  VERY expensive (more than a Q in my opinion)

Max

Hmmm. That is certainly tight for those who got in under CEOTP. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't they making $2400/month before taxes until they are MOC qualified?

J glad to see you found the site (goodro from aviation.ca) you are in good hands now! The gentlemen that are taking the time to answer your questions were a tremendous help to me when I was going through the process. Keep diggin' - it's good info for the other wannabe's out there who are doing their research. Some of the questions you are asking are not easily answered while you are in the recruiting phase...

good luck! and good on you for doing your research.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 08, 2006, 22:31:28
that's only in YWG though...  Charges vary from place to place...

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Inch on August 08, 2006, 23:44:15
I heard 450 for quarters and 500 for food as of july 2006...  VERY expensive (more than a Q in my opinion)

Max

You heard?

That's ludicrous, prices doubling in 3 years? BS.

Stick to the facts Max. Not to shoot you down since you are helpful, but if you haven't been there, then don't be regurgitating what you "heard". My experience in the training system was that it was full of rumours, most of which were third or fourth hand, so "my buddy's friend's brother that went through Moose Jaw said..." is probably not even remotely true so don't even bring it up.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 09, 2006, 00:21:44
Yeah I know what you mean....  Heard meaning my best friend told me (he lives in the shaks right now).


Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Bo on August 09, 2006, 01:11:26
I was staying in single quarters in Kingston a few months ago.

Single Quarters (room+shared bathroom): $240/month
Suites (2 floors+fridge+bathroom): $360/month

Rations (3 meals/day, all you could eat): $400/month

I visited some buddies in Victoria and they have absolutely incredible quarters! Overlooking the ocean and mountains, beautiful!
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 09, 2006, 10:23:56
I was staying in single quarters in Kingston a few months ago.

Single Quarters (room+shared bathroom): $240/month
Suites (2 floors+fridge+bathroom): $360/month

Rations (3 meals/day, all you could eat): $400/month

I visited some buddies in Victoria and they have absolutely incredible quarters! Overlooking the ocean and mountains, beautiful!

That sounds like a pretty reasonable deal because I eat A LOT! Just ask my mum.

On the same subject, but not related to OJT, what are the accomidations like during the various courses like BOTC, SLT, PFT etc? Sort of similar or more group oriented?

Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: J_Muir on August 09, 2006, 16:39:25
Do pilot candidates also have to complete IAP? There's mention of BOTC everywhere, but not IAP so I'm wondering what the story is there.

*EDIT* - Found my anwser!
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Moody on August 18, 2006, 14:30:45
A just curious question and this may be a hijack but - I was wondering if anybody knows how many applicants are receiving an offer for Pilot but are going on PAT right now because of the push to enlist recruits in such a short period of time and the courses in St.Jean filling up. Or is this only going to start taking place in the fall? I understand they want to shorten recruiting times to one week. Should be interesting given that Aircrew alone is one week nevermind the medical, PT test, interview, ERC, CFAT, vision test, blood work etc...

Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 18, 2006, 14:39:28
If you are DEO, you don't go to PAT.. You do an OJT somewhere.

For ROTP, you go to school.

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Moody on August 18, 2006, 14:43:38
Thanks Max. What about before IAP/BOTP? In other words, are they signing contracts today for courses that start months from now?
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on August 18, 2006, 14:45:15
LWOP (Leave Without Pay) Unless you start school before.  Then you will be on LWOP untill school starts.

Max
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: maniac779 on September 14, 2008, 00:00:37
Not going to start a new thread... Just curious...

Are they still sending Pilot candidates to the Language school after IAP/BOTP these days?
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: SupersonicMax on September 14, 2008, 00:23:32
Last I heard, yet (a guy that was doing OJT where I was working did it a few months ago)

Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Ditch on September 15, 2008, 00:58:18
Are they still sending Pilot candidates to the Language school after IAP/BOTP these days?

It's either there or sit around on OJT for 18 months. 
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Moody on September 15, 2008, 14:56:01
It's either there or sit around on OJT for 18 months. 

If you were accepted under CEOTP, could you work on your degree while on OJT? I realize that they are supposed to do this part time, but I was wondering if some were able to study full time while on OJT.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Astrodog on September 15, 2008, 15:23:38
It's either there or sit around on OJT for 18 months. 

This is where it gets confusing, they are only sending pilots to do SLT currently because of the long wait time, but, as it was explained to me you cannot be on the waiting list for another course while you're on course (SLT). So the 'official' waiting doesn't begin until you're DONE SLT. After basic, unless you are lucky and have a good base of french like i did, then expect 10mo of SLT and then 12mo of OJT, so nearly 2yrs until you log some CF flying time.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Strike on September 15, 2008, 16:10:53
There is a way to get around this, and that is to take French at whatever base you are doing OJT at, be it full days or half days.

As for working on your uni degree, you realize that if you register for 3 courses (that includes distance learning) you are considered a full time student.  If you plan on actually attending classes your best bet would be to talk to you CoC at your OJT unit, although you probably would not be OK'd to go full time.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Dimsum on September 15, 2008, 19:26:13
After basic, unless you are lucky and have a good base of french like i did, then expect 10mo of SLT and then 12mo of OJT, so nearly 2yrs until you log some CF flying time.

Did they extend the SLT course?  It used to be a max of 7 months.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Astrodog on September 15, 2008, 22:03:35
Did they extend the SLT course?  It used to be a max of 7 months.

Yup, from 33 to 44wks and min escape profile to BBB.
Title: Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
Post by: Wickes on September 16, 2008, 08:29:47
Yup, from 33 to 44wks and min escape profile to BBB.

I saw that they upped it to 44 weeks, but the min profile to leave now is BBB?  I got out after 33 weeks, BAB and on my way.

Please someone correct me but my understanding is:

Old system:  IAP/BOTP on to french, DURING french get tentative dates for PFT, Sea Survival and AMT (maybe BSERE if you're lucky), AFTER french join the waiting list for Moose Jaw and continue on.

New System: IAP/BOTP on to french, stay on French for at least 11 weeks more, or until BBB is achieved, AFTER french get dates for PFT, Sea Survival, and AMT (Again maybe BSERE), AFTER PFT join the waiting list for Moose Jaw and continue.

Is this how they are scheduling the new guys coming in now?