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The Recruiting Office => Physical Training & Standards => Topic started by: FascistLibertarian on June 13, 2007, 19:20:30

Title: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: FascistLibertarian on June 13, 2007, 19:20:30
Hey all
this is a really dumb question but
anaerobic and aerobic, which should I do first.
I THINK anaerobic before aerobic makes sense. People have told me different things

Also, should i eat high protein things (IE steaks) AFTER I lift or BEFORE?

thanks in advance.
Sorry about my ignorance.
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: Keebler on June 13, 2007, 19:25:12
Anaerobic befor aerobic according to my trainer and i read in a triathalon training guide that you should consume protein and carbs within the first 30mins after exercise to benefit the most.
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: uncle-midget-Oddball on June 13, 2007, 19:29:22
http://armyapp.dnd.ca/38CBG_ARSD/CBTIST/top7/B-GL-382-003-PT-001.pdf
This might be useful
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: MrBlue on June 13, 2007, 23:03:31
Ok well i disagree with the above point...were not trying to make anaerobic (e.g weight training) into an aerobic exercise...
My point is this...you weight train to get stronger and work your muscles...right?
and you jog, bike, etc to improve your endurance and cardiovascular capabilities....right?

Well lets not turn weight training into a friggin endurance training session.

but i do agree that if you have the time split up your workouts...with cardio/off days and weight training/on days...or cardio in the AM and weights in the PM.
By the way i wasn't trying to flame the person above me with my earlier comments...but its just common sense...and scientific, that after so many repetitions in 1 set you basically lose the value of weight training since you would have to go so low in weight to do the 100 reps or whatever silly amount of high number.

furthermore...push-ups i can see as anaerobic and chin-ups/pull-ups for sure...but body squats...no way...you could crank out 100-500 of those...i see no weight training like benefits in this...push-ups can work for newbies...since most are not very strong/good at them...but far better choices exist out there (incline bench press being the best choice if done correctly).

- Weight training is a common type of strength training for developing the strength and size of skeletal muscles.

- Strength training is an inclusive term for all types of exercise devoted towards increasing muscular strength and size (as opposed to muscular endurance, associated with aerobic exercise.

I don't know what your goals are therefore i cannot exactly recommend anything per se, since i don't know if you want to be a bodybuilder, powerlifter, weightlifter, or just train for health benefits...or if there is something in specific you want i.e lose fat, get bigger, etc.  I would recommend to look at www.bodybuilding.com don't be fooled this site doesn't only cater to bodybuilding...it has tons of information for average joes, to bodybuilding and a whole lot more.

RECAP:
If you have to do both in 1 session...anaerobic first, since this type of exercise has more benefits then aerobic.  Best option...different days or times of day.
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: Hatchet Man on June 13, 2007, 23:33:28
Do crossfit, as mentioned above, if you want to to excell in all the aspects that make up complete fitness.  If your goal is merely to only "appear" fit and have huge beach muscles, then stick with the regimented bodybuilding style of training (cardio kept seperate from weight training), then again even that method is dated and obsolete (ever see the actors in "300" they followed the crossfit style of training).
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: MrBlue on June 19, 2007, 13:22:41
HatchetMan: you picked an appropriate name bub, its fine and dandy to recommend something, but unless you bring evidence to the table about something, i wouldn't call it outdated and, say you appear fit...before you speak, think, research, think some more, think more maybe speak.

And also realize there are MANY different ways to train with weights, i REALLY don't know what you call bodybuilding training, because you don't seem to be to educated about it, but weight training does not = bodybuilding.
Bodybuilders train a certain way for a certain goal, and even then none of them train exactly the same way, so its really narrow-minded to lump it all in the same basket.
also saying "Bodybuilders only appear fit because they dont do what i do" is pretty childish, would you say the same thing to 100m sprinters or competitive swimmers, because they don't do crossfit, and well sprinters only run 100m...there not really fit are they, plus they weight train....ooooh aaaaah they can't be in shape then.

i also have another recommendation, take up boxing, or kickboxing or MMA, not necessarily competitive, but not those cardio kick classes either i mean good old-fashioned boxing style training (and yes a lot of if not all of the top boxers, MMA guys weight train, on top of there regular workouts)
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: the 48th regulator on June 19, 2007, 13:36:14
HatchetMan: you picked an appropriate name bub, its fine and dandy to recommend something, but unless you bring evidence to the table about something, i wouldn't call it outdated and, say you appear fit...before you speak, think, research, think some more, think more maybe speak.

And also realize there are MANY different ways to train with weights, i REALLY don't know what you call bodybuilding training, because you don't seem to be to educated about it, but weight training does not = bodybuilding.
Bodybuilders train a certain way for a certain goal, and even then none of them train exactly the same way, so its really narrow-minded to lump it all in the same basket.
also saying "Bodybuilders only appear fit because they dont do what i do" is pretty childish, would you say the same thing to 100m sprinters or competitive swimmers, because they don't do crossfit, and well sprinters only run 100m...there not really fit are they, plus they weight train....ooooh aaaaah they can't be in shape then.

i also have another recommendation, take up boxing, or kickboxing or MMA, not necessarily competitive, but not those cardio kick classes either i mean good old-fashioned boxing style training (and yes a lot of if not all of the top boxers, MMA guys weight train, on top of there regular workouts)

Here is a recomendation, Biggoals2bdone, maybe you can knock off the insults about people's knowledge and their names.

Obviously if we go by your names, one goal will be the warning system if you keep this up.

dileas

tess
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: scoutfinch on June 19, 2007, 13:43:44
HatchetMan: you picked an appropriate name bub, its fine and dandy to recommend something, but unless you bring evidence to the table about something, i wouldn't call it outdated and, say you appear fit...before you speak, think, research, think some more, think more maybe speak.

And also realize there are MANY different ways to train with weights, i REALLY don't know what you call bodybuilding training, because you don't seem to be to educated about it, but weight training does not = bodybuilding.
Bodybuilders train a certain way for a certain goal, and even then none of them train exactly the same way, so its really narrow-minded to lump it all in the same basket.
also saying "Bodybuilders only appear fit because they dont do what i do" is pretty childish, would you say the same thing to 100m sprinters or competitive swimmers, because they don't do crossfit, and well sprinters only run 100m...there not really fit are they, plus they weight train....ooooh aaaaah they can't be in shape then.

i also have another recommendation, take up boxing, or kickboxing or MMA, not necessarily competitive, but not those cardio kick classes either i mean good old-fashioned boxing style training (and yes a lot of if not all of the top boxers, MMA guys weight train, on top of there regular workouts)


It's "I', not "i".  Get it??? 
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: Rider Pride on June 19, 2007, 14:03:46
Despite what every else thinks...no one person will give you a "right" answer. The advice from david above is as good as it gets.

It really depends on you, your fitness goals and what you like to do. And accordingly, three different people who give 3 different answers to those questions will get 3 different responses.

As far a fitness for the CF. Just go and do something is a good start. Cardio of some kind for no less then 20 mins per day. Weight train before or after does not matter, but you do need some strength training in there. Follow the Army fitness manual, it is a good guide.

For leaning down, it is proven that weight tng first followed by cardio is most efficient as you are not tired during form-important exercises.

Of course if you love to swim, then a hard weight tng session right before might not be the best thing.
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: Munxcub on June 19, 2007, 14:12:38
Strength training is also important for CV/CP (cardiovascular and cardiopulmonary) endurance and stamina because more strength means more potential CV/CP end. and Stamina. For true strength training, keep it in 3RM and 5RM (RM= rep max) lifts. (for 5-7 sets...) for muscular endurance step it up to 10-15RM efforts. And as far as "cardio" is concerned, any effort done at an elevated heart rate for 20 minutes or more is fine. If lifting gets your HR up to 80% max and you keep it there for 20 minutes, your body doesn't know that it was lifting that did it, or running, or biking, or whatever...

I would also agree that lifting before running is advised, because you don't want to be too tired to lift properly and potentially injure yourself.

Just one more guy's opinion. YMMV
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: CdnArtyWife on June 19, 2007, 14:57:47
Biggoals,

Again, though with less sarcasm this time I will ask, please fill out your profile when you get a chance.

We consider it common courtesy around here.

Cheers,

CAW
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: Hatchet Man on June 19, 2007, 17:26:19
HatchetMan: you picked an appropriate name bub, its fine and dandy to recommend something, but unless you bring evidence to the table about something, i wouldn't call it outdated and, say you appear fit...before you speak, think, research, think some more, think more maybe speak.

I don't know what the personal swipe was for, since I have not insulted you, but thats fine.  As for "its fine and dandy to recommend something, but unless you bring evidence..."  I can say the same to you.  You have been spouting off in several topics, and repeatedly saying everything you are mentioning "is science, and scientifically proven etc.", so put your money where your mouth is, and show us some links to studies and articles that validate what your are saying (as well as filling out your profile).  As for myself, you can start with this topic http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=42068.0;all, the Canadian Forces has already completed trials of Crossfit and has found it to yield better results than its Army Fitness Manual.  You can also go to Crossfit.com and browse their quite extensive forums.

Quote
And also realize there are MANY different ways to train with weights, i REALLY don't know what you call bodybuilding training, because you don't seem to be to educated about it, but weight training does not = bodybuilding.
Bodybuilders train a certain way for a certain goal, and even then none of them train exactly the same way, so its really narrow-minded to lump it all in the same basket.

I am fully aware that there are different ways to train with weights, and that by doing so is not bodybuilding. I never said it was.  I said "regimented bodybuilding style of training (cardio kept seperate from weight training)".  Semantics, but I guess you forgot or just don't care to realize that, modern day weight training (regardless of what your end goals are) IS derived from bodybuilding (before Arnold brought Bodybuilding into the mainstream, very few people followed any kind of weight training regime).

Quote
also saying "Bodybuilders only appear fit because they dont do what i do" is pretty childish, would you say the same thing to 100m sprinters or competitive swimmers, because they don't do crossfit, and well sprinters only run 100m...there not really fit are they, plus they weight train....ooooh aaaaah they can't be in shape then.

I never said that, your putting words in my mouth.  I said if do crossfit if you want to excel in all aspects of fitness.  Now crossfit is not the be all and end all, its just the only program I know of that effectively trys to incorporate all aspects of fitness into its training methodologies.  And yes to answer your question I would call the sprinter and swimmer unfit (some even call themselves that upon embarking on the program http://basecamp.crossfit.com/basecamp/affiliates/affiliates/LA%20Times%20CrossFit%204-10-2006.pdf), because they are not fit OVERALL .  They focus only on competitive fitness, and train only to excel in their particular field. 

Quote
i also have another recommendation, take up boxing, or kickboxing or MMA, not necessarily competitive, but not those cardio kick classes either i mean good old-fashioned boxing style training (and yes a lot of if not all of the top boxers, MMA guys weight train, on top of there regular workouts)

I don't know what your point was here, but I was involved with boxing for a little bit, work schedule conflict a bit to much now. And so boxers and MMA people train with weights, so? (FYI Chuck Lidell is an avid crossfitter).
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: FascistLibertarian on June 19, 2007, 20:34:10
Thanks so much for all the advice! :)
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: AverageJoe on July 07, 2007, 10:03:35
All the pros and cons of doing one workout before the other aside. You need to remember that your not training to be some world class elite athlete, if you were you probably wouldn't be here asking for advice, although we should all aspire to push ourselves to those levels, lets face it working out is a chore and no one likes......really likes doing it. The best suggestion I ever got from a professional trainer was to do the workout you like the least first. If you don't like to do cardio but like to do strength training then do the cardio first. Your not gonna wanna push yourself if you leave the workout you hate the most for the second part of your regiment.

For me I hate running so I do that first before I do my weight lifting.
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: Munxcub on July 07, 2007, 15:28:06
The only problem with that is if you do "cardio" first, you are likely too tired lift safely and properly. Or at least too tired to lift heavy enough weights to really do it justice.

Warm up
Lift
Run
Warm down

Keep it in the realm of functional movements (squats, pullups, pushups, press... not sure in what situation you'd ever do a tricep kickback in real life...) Also, keep the intensity high and don't get stuck in a rut, change it up. Keep it interesting.

Oh... and I really enjoy working out by the way... It's one of the best parts of my day.
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: spook on July 07, 2007, 21:22:24
One part of the original message not touched on much was the protein intake. As a general rule I'll have a snack consisting of protein and some carbohydrate (small can of tuna and a piece of fruit for example) at least one hour prior to a workout. What I believe to be even more important however to eat some good quality protein soon after a weight training session weather it be a crossfit type workout (which I highly recommend for overall fitness by the way) or a more traditional weight training session. Hope this helps.

Spook
Title: Re: anaerobic or aerobic first?
Post by: Munxcub on July 07, 2007, 21:54:48
very true spook. And real food is always superior to supplements (protein powders/shakes...) a piece of fruit and some meat/cheese would be great, hell a glass of milk would do for both.