Army.ca Forums

Air-Force.ca => Aircrew Trades => Topic started by: Dombi on November 24, 2009, 23:10:15

Title: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dombi on November 24, 2009, 23:10:15
Hi there,

I have applied in August for ACSO. Everything is going well. My medical is at Borden waiting for that doctor to sign my files. While waiting, my girlfriend begun to be scared about me joining in. I am looking for information that may reassure her. Anyone knows the average length of an ACSO mission ? Is it in days or months like in the navy ? How often do you have to leave your family to do missions ? She doesn't want to be alone half of the year (and I understand her point of view on that).

Do you have reasons or benefits for military wives/girlfriend to be happy with this decision ? I admit that I can't find many reasons for her to be enthusiastic about this new life.  :-\

Thank you for your help!

Dombi
Title: Re: ACSO and his wife
Post by: mariomike on November 24, 2009, 23:21:27
There is some discussion of ACSO in this thread. You may, or you may not, find it to be of interest.:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/index.php?topic=84427.msg818186#msg818186
Title: Re: ACSO and his wife
Post by: prima6 on November 30, 2009, 18:17:36
It somewhat depends on what airframe you wind up flying on.  Maritime helicopter guys probably deploy the most on average, but it will also depend if you get other deployments (such as Afghanistan or a UN deployment) which you can get no matter what airframe you're on.  A buddy of mine on Sea Kings was away from home for more than a year in his first 2 years on squadron (14 months I think).  Guys who go SAR probably deploy less frequently and for much shorter periods of time.  Auroras are probably somewhere in the middle.   
Title: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: DSoup on March 17, 2010, 22:24:10
Hi,

I'm in the ROTP program and just got told I was going on SOT this summer.  I'm going to Trenton, Shearwater and Greenwood and wanted to know what to expect on SOT.  Is there any flying time or is it mostly seeing squadron life.  What are the days on SOT like?  I read the CF website on the training but I'd like to know what someone who's done it thought of it.

Also when ACSO's do BANC and are on the grob, who's instructing?  Is it a pilot, since I'm pretty sure the grob is a 2 seater, one for the trainee and someone has to fly the plane....
Title: Re: ACSO Questions
Post by: Ditch on March 18, 2010, 00:00:22
The flying instructor is flying and instructing during the low-level nav phase of the course.  They will all be Ph1 QFI's employed by Allied Wings.  If you are lucky, they might let you touch the stick.
Title: Re: ACSO Questions
Post by: montana on March 18, 2010, 00:48:03
SOT is great you will get a lot of flying and drinking at every base.
Title: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: Amyrin on April 16, 2010, 00:36:27
Hi, new to the forums and just signed up to ask a quick question.

About a year ago I signed up at my local recruiting centre, and by the time all my medicals were in and everything was approved they ran out of open spots for my trades.  Those were artillery officer, and ACSO.  About a week ago, however, I got a call from my recruiter, who offered me my choice of either career path.  The problem is that I was under the assumption last year when I was going through selection that ACSO was an aircrew trade, and that I would have to go to the aircrew centre for training, which I have never done.  He assured me this was not necessary and only a process that was used for pilots.  So I accepted the offer for ACSO, and he told me my confirmation ceremony would be coming up this august 25th, and I would leave for St. Jean on September 4th.

I have been reading through these forums in the meantime, and it seems from what I am reading that I very much so skipped a step and I don't want to get a call a few months down the line saying that my offer is rescinded.  I'm currently up in a forestry camp in BC and unable to reach my recruiter in Calgary for another few weeks, so I was wondering if anyone on this forum could help enlighten me as to whether or not there was a mistake on the part of the recruiting centre, or if I'm just reading into things and being paranoid.


Thanks for your help and responses
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: DexOlesa on April 16, 2010, 00:46:19
ACSO testing is 3 written tests. It is done at the aircrew testing center after all the pilot testing is done (as most people who fail pilot testing attempt ACSO) However ACSO testing can be done at the recruiting center as well. It does not HAVE to be done at aircrew, it just usually is.
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: Journeyman on April 16, 2010, 00:48:04
I'm currently up in a forestry camp in BC and unable to reach my recruiter in Calgary for another few weeks....
You posted here, so you have internet -- trust me, you do.

Calgary, although still clinging to the 20th-century, actually has internet and running water now.

Why not send the recruiter an email and ask?
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: Amyrin on April 16, 2010, 00:54:40
Thank you so much.  That definitely takes a lot off my chest.

For the second comment, I generally prefer to talk to recruiters in person instead of email, though I also wanted to get some information from people who have gone through the process and could shed some light on it, whereas the recruiting centre has told me two different things concerning the ACSO careerpath.
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: Mellor on April 16, 2010, 01:02:56

Calgary, although still clinging to the 20th-century, actually has internet and running water now.


Not sure where you are from, but in Calgary they have labor laws and offices usually aren't open until 10pm... they must be real slave drivers where you are from.
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: Journeyman on April 16, 2010, 01:07:08
Well that's another crazy thing about email; Amyrin could send it off now....or in an hour or two....and it would be sitting there, magically, for the recruiter to read in the morning.

Email is just no respecter of banker's hours  ;)
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: Elwood on April 16, 2010, 12:19:08
You don't do any aircrew training before going to basic. The only pre-requisite for the ACSO trade is passing the Nav written test.
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: prmackay on August 10, 2010, 15:37:02
ACSO testing is 3 written tests. It is done at the aircrew testing center after all the pilot testing is done (as most people who fail pilot testing attempt ACSO) However ACSO testing can be done at the recruiting center as well. It does not HAVE to be done at aircrew, it just usually is.

Can any recruiters confirm this?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on August 10, 2010, 15:42:41
Can any recruiters confirm this?

Thank you.

ACSO-only applicants do not go to Trenton for aircrew selection !
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: prmackay on August 10, 2010, 15:51:23
Thank you for clarifying. I only asked because I just spoke with a recruiter and was given information stating otherwise.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on August 10, 2010, 15:57:03
I'm going by my own ACS experience and from working with a bunch of ACSOs who never went there.
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on August 10, 2010, 15:59:40
ACSO-only applicants would be done by 1130am on day one of ACS..........would be a waste to send them there to do something that can be done anywhere else.
Title: Re: Aircrew Training and ACSO
Post by: prmackay on August 10, 2010, 16:08:14
I agree. Thanks again for your help.
Title: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: nickanick on February 09, 2011, 18:05:11
Hi, this is my first post. Please forgive my lack of knowledge of whatever it is happening at the moment.
I'm wondering how long of training would require to be able to join the ACSO?
What would you say the difficulty to be a ACSO comparing to enrolling into the Pilot?

Currently, I'm in my last stage of screening and will be joining the artillery reserve unit.
However, in 2012 after I graduate from university, regular force ASCO will be my path according my plan.
Would the skills in the reserve benefit myself when the selection in Airforce?

Thx for your time! :)
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: posv3 on February 10, 2011, 17:25:17
I think I can answer a few of your questions:

For training, have you checked out this? http://www.forces.ca/en/job/aircombatsystemsofficer-30#info-1 (http://www.forces.ca/en/job/aircombatsystemsofficer-30#info-1)

I'm not too sure about the difficulty compared to Pilot, but I'm pretty sure there's a test you have to complete along with the regular recruiting process.

I'm pretty sure benefits of the Reserves have been discussed quite frequently here... Have you tried a search? I recommend you do a search of the site with your other questions too, there will be answers from people with much more experience and knowledge than I.

Good luck  :)
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: bouncer2004 on February 16, 2011, 03:34:08
As an ACSO student now I can say that post 2012, there are new courses for ACSOs, and it will last 7 months as current courses lasts an avg of 10-14 months

Difficulty: 2 different things.  Pilots flies and have their training, we learn to direct missions.  We fly as crew but DO NOT TOUCH any piloting controls.

As a previous MPO in reserves, your general knowledge on the Cf and its rules/admin/etc...will help but for going from land to aircrew trade they are very different...PM me for my email as it is easier to discuss there...good luck
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: KRJB on March 04, 2011, 00:44:26
So I passed the ACSO Tests today. The recruiter told me I have a very high chance of getting into ROTP now because it was my first choice and the failure rate is fairly high. Can anybody confirm/deny this? If my chances are increased, how many spots are available for ACSO applicants?

Thank You!

PS I thought I would put this in here, rather than starting a 4th ACSO thread.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: prima6 on March 06, 2011, 00:16:55
It's very difficult to say how many ACSO spots are open right now.  AFAIK, pilot is currently closed to most entry programs, but the number of people being recruited into trades does depend on entry programs (ROTP, DEO, CEOTP, etc).  The only ones that know for sure are the recruiting office and B/WPSOs (Personnel Selection Officers).

I would imagine there aren't too many ACSO slots open right now.  I know that there are people loaded on courses out to 2015, but I can't say for sure how full each of the courses is.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: jwtg on March 09, 2011, 10:40:18
So I passed the ACSO Tests today. The recruiter told me I have a very high chance of getting into ROTP now because it was my first choice and the failure rate is fairly high. Can anybody confirm/deny this? If my chances are increased, how many spots are available for ACSO applicants?

I was told the exact same thing.  Kind of makes you wonder how many people they're saying that kind of thing to.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: CdnEWO on March 15, 2011, 21:15:30
Hi, nickanick.  I think I can help you out.

I'm an ACSO...or as I prefer, nav (I was trained as a nav, so that's what I call myself) with 13 years in.  I spent six years as a Herc nav then specialised as an EWO to fly backseat on the Alpha Jet (EWO is an ACSO specialty, like transport/LRP/MH/SAR, if you're wondering), which I did for four years.

When I went through CFANS, the course was 9 months on paper but took about a year to complete.  Flight scheduling, rewrites, lecturer availability etc all cause delays.  I started in August and got my wings in July.  I heard that the course will be shortened, like bouncer said, as they're removing some things from the basic course and moving them to the appropriate OTU courses.

It's difficult to directly compare the ACSO basic course to the pilot course(s).  Neither training path is easy, they're just different.  The ACSO basic course deals with a lot of the same basic material, we just don't study as much on aerodynamics and aircraft handling and study more mission planning & direction, and the only stick time is during the 2 week introductory phase in Portage - if they still do that.  Though to expand on what bouncer said, some ACSOs are expected to do some piloting once qualified on their aircraft (i.e. EWOs, as the jet has only two seats and no autopilot).

Failure rate is pretty high in both.  Selection just gets you in the door because you've shown the aptitude.  Your training is where you prove yourself.  When I was at CFANS, we had classes of eight, and five graduated on average.  I understand the percentages are similar for pilot, but I could be wrong.

From there you go to your OTU course, but that's a story for another thread.

As far as getting into the trade goes, it depends on a number of factors.  How many slots there are depends on actual manning versus projected versus minimum required.  From there, they allocate some to each entry programme based on a plan that I won't pretend to understand.  I entered as a DEO since I already had my degree.  When I applied, the recruiters told me it looked good, but advised me that more new applicants were being processed all the time, so if I didn't get called within about a year then it may not happen.  I got offered a spot about three months after finishing ACS, so I guess I did okay.

To give you perspective, we have about 500-600 ACSOs according to the last career manager brief.  I don't remember how many we lose each year, but I think guys typically stay in for a 20-to-25-year stint, so do the math and that'll give you a rough indication of how many enter.  Some leave after obligatory service, some stay in for the full 35 years, some switch trades, but I'd say 20ish years is a good average.

Hope this helps.  If anyone has better info, feel free to chime in.

Cheers
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Dimsum on March 16, 2011, 03:30:30
Echo what CdnEWO said, but I'll add that ACSO courses are international, ie. not all students in your course are Canadian.  That can possibly prolong your wait for 1 CFFTS. 
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: prima6 on March 16, 2011, 22:55:23
Echo what CdnEWO said, but I'll add that ACSO courses are international, ie. not all students in your course are Canadian.  That can possibly prolong your wait for 1 CFFTS.

That won't prolong the wait.  International students are only taken when there is excess training capacity.  If we need ACSOs there won't be international students loaded on the course.  AFAIK, the next ACSO course has the last international student for the foreseeable future, as we are getting to the point where we are unable to generate the required number of ACSOs at the school.  Our next graduating course has a student starting an OTU about 2 weeks after their grad, an OTU that has up until now had a substantial wait period.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: CdnEWO on March 19, 2011, 10:29:19
Glad to hear that OTU waits have gone down.  At the time I graduated I did really well, started the Herc OTU less than two months after grad.  That was pretty fast at the time.  Some of my contemporaries waited nearly a year...and I hear that's been pretty common lately.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: nickanick on March 30, 2011, 20:33:27
Thanks so much for the replies guys. You gave me lots of insights about the process of becoming an ASCO.
A little off track question.
What kind of positions are eligible to work on broad as an aircrew?
Because I would like to consider those as backup plans.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Dimsum on March 30, 2011, 20:39:06
Thanks so much for the replies guys. You gave me lots of insights about the process of becoming an ASCO.
A little off track question.
What kind of positions are eligible to work on broad as an aircrew?
Because I would like to consider those as backup plans.

Do you mean other aircrew trades onboard?  If so, then Pilot (obviously) and AESOP right off the street.  As for transfer trades, depending on the type of aircraft there could be SAR TECH, Flight Engineer, Loadmaster, Flight Steward...
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: nickanick on March 30, 2011, 22:41:54
Do you mean other aircrew trades onboard?  If so, then Pilot (obviously) and AESOP right off the street.  As for transfer trades, depending on the type of aircraft there could be SAR TECH, Flight Engineer, Loadmaster, Flight Steward...

I thought asco would work on board as well.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Dimsum on March 31, 2011, 01:24:06
I thought asco would work on board as well.

Yes they do.  When you said that you wanted to consider backup trades, I thought you meant "trades other than ACSO."   
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: nickanick on March 31, 2011, 13:19:46
Yes they do.  When you said that you wanted to consider backup trades, I thought you meant "trades other than ACSO."   

Oops. Sorry, my mistakes. Thanks!!

I heard AESOp is only for CT or OT from my recruiter,
I wonder if I can do a CT from Artil res to AESOp reg.

Any AESOp here can share some of their daily routine?
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Griffon on March 31, 2011, 14:57:54
I would ask the recruiter to look at AES Op again.  I am pretty sure they opened it up to regular recruitment last year.  They may have changed it back to OT only, but I haven't seen anything that would make me think that.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on March 31, 2011, 19:04:40
  They may have changed it back to OT only, but I haven't seen anything that would make me think that.

We have not changed it back, that i know of but that being said, we are full.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: SeaKingTacco on March 31, 2011, 22:28:54
AESOp is a trade normally  open to both Direct Entry and Component Transfer/Remuster candidates.

The problem is, as Cdn Aviator has pointed out, the trade is full (or more precisely, the training pipeline is full).  Therefore, for now, no Direct Entry candidates.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Ditch on March 31, 2011, 23:20:18
I heard that the AESOP trade and Flight Attendant were merging into one.  That might explain why DEO is closed.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on April 01, 2011, 03:37:50
I heard that the AESOP trade and Flight Attendant were merging into one.


I also heard that you volunteered to kiss my ***.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: nickanick on April 01, 2011, 03:55:35
Thanks for all the comments guys!

However since I wont be CT till at least 2012-2013, I hope by than the trade will open up  :P
But in the mean time, I really want to equip myself.
What kinda of degree, certification or job experience would put me on to the "top" merit list or waiting list?
For both ACSO and AESOp.
Or just a better chance to get in.

I did research about those jobs from official site,
so I'm hoping for answers that will be more specific.

Thanks again guys!!


thx for the correction!
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Dimsum on April 01, 2011, 04:00:41
Thanks for all the comments guys!

However since I wont be CT till at least 2012-2013, I hope by than the trade will open up  :P
But in the mean time, I really want to equip myself.
What kinda of degree, certification or job experience would put me on to the "top" merit list or waiting list?
For both ASCO and AESOp.
Or just a better chance to get in.

I did research about those jobs from official site,
so I'm hoping for answers that will be more specific.

Thanks again guys!!

Nothing specific for ACSO that I can think of; people have had all sorts of degrees/certifications and have done just fine. 

As an aside, it's ACSO (Air Combat Systems Officer), not ASCO. 
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Ditch on April 01, 2011, 13:54:44
I also heard that you volunteered to kiss my ***.

No no. You must have me confused with being a MAG crew member. In the AMAG community we have no need for such greetings.  :-)
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: KRJB on April 03, 2011, 00:30:36
Applied for ACSO. Should be hearing about offers in the next week or so. Fingers crossed. I have heard though that ACSO is still wide open after the first selection. So I'm feeling good. :)
Title: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: word on April 06, 2011, 14:47:42
I am looking at ACSO as my first choice right now (I will be applying for DEO next year april when I finish my degree) and I was wondering what to expect on the written tests. I heard it's very math based and that the second part is info on ACSO overall (information on the ACSO trade indepth) that you should know before hand (zero test prep). If anyone here can shed light on the ACSO tests (if you've taken them) that'd be great.

I know there are other topics on this subject but most of them were 200 days or more old (without much information).
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: Good2Golf on April 06, 2011, 15:02:04
...If anyone here can shed light on the ACSO tests (if you've taken them) that'd be great.

I know there are other topics on this subject but most of them were 200 days or more old (without much information).

There's a reason that there is little detail regrading the test...that's because those who took the test are following the direction that they were given to not disclose information regarding the test.

It is likely that the only information you would get from them is that it is rather challenging.  Talk with the Recruiting Centre to get as much information about the test as you can.

Regards
G2G
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: word on April 06, 2011, 15:03:30
Yeah, of course I am not looking for some detailed info. It's great that I talked to RC because at least I also now know to research the trade and terms relating to it (that may be on the test).
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: KRJB on April 07, 2011, 21:10:14
Study components of Grade 10-11 Math. The CAPSS book that they give you, study it. A handful of things in there do in fact help you. This is what my recruiter told me before I took the test and it did help. Otherwise, like what was posted above, we are not in a position to disclose any details about the exam itself. Good Luck. It is a 3 hour test but when they let you know that you passed it is such a great feeling!
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: word on April 09, 2011, 00:20:12
AESOp is a trade normally  open to both Direct Entry and Component Transfer/Remuster candidates.

The problem is, as Cdn Aviator has pointed out, the trade is full (or more precisely, the training pipeline is full).  Therefore, for now, no Direct Entry candidates.

I am going to be taking the ACSO aptitude test in 2012 (when I graduate), hopefully there's some spots for DEO then.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: anjp on April 28, 2011, 16:44:37
I did the ACSO testing about 14 months ago.  Don't worry, don't panic, don't psych yourself up over it.  Just read the guide and review high school math.  My only regret is that I never went back and reviewed my highschool math.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: word on April 30, 2011, 02:41:00
Thanks anjp. What guide are you talking about?
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: anjp on April 30, 2011, 08:41:34
The CAPSS guide (if you're going to Trenton).  Many times the pilot and ACSO trades are tested at the same time. If you're just writing the paper test at your own CFRC don't worry about any guide.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: nickanick on May 31, 2011, 04:55:35
Would going into Private Jet Ground School help the test or even the application of being an ASCO?
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: pudd13 on May 31, 2011, 17:39:36
It wouldn't harm you at all, but is by no means necessary, and many people might consider that overboard in regards to preparation for that ACSO test. But I guess if you want ACSO bad enough, no preparation is too much.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: BobSlob on May 31, 2011, 18:26:00
Practice high school math, be familiar with how lat/longs work (base 60), familiarity with basic aircraft instruments and how to read them, and how to look up information in tables quickly.

That's all I can think of, it's not a hard test by any means, but it's not easy either.
Any other questions about the trade, shoot me a PM.
Title: ACSO duties
Post by: Tuna on September 08, 2011, 18:25:10
many have told me that If I become a pilot in the CF, I have a 25% chance of becoming Fastjet pilot, 25% chance of becoming a multi-engine pilot and 50% chance of being a rotorcraft pilot...these seem to be the stats that most will tell me , but what about the ACSO's what chances do they have of being in a sea king/cyclone? how about Hercules? or aurora? and what are the chances that one would be posted to an electronic warfare squadron? or fly a UAV?
Title: Re: ACSO Questions
Post by: Dou You on September 19, 2011, 15:28:20
Just a random question...

When on course at 1 CFFTS are you able to play on the competitive (regional/national) base hockey team given you may miss some games and practices for obvious reasons? Or does the fact that you are on course make you ineligible to play? On that note...dare I ask, is there even a base hockey team in Winnipeg?  ???  All I could find online was a team called the 402 Bears, but there is nothing to prove that this team is still going...
Title: Re: ACSO Questions
Post by: SeaKingTacco on September 19, 2011, 15:50:30
Dou You,

It would be highly inadvisable for you to play higher level competitive sports while a student at 1 CFFTS.  Firstly, if you get hurt, you may well get recoursed or even face reclassification or release, if the injury is severe enough.   Secondly, it will be very unlikely that you will be given permission to attend regionals or nationals, as the course schedule comes first.  If you are given permission to go, training for your course mates also stops while you are gone- this obviously problematic. 

1CFFTS has faced very uncomfortable pressure in the past to allow students to attend CISM sports events.  To allow it, always impacts training delivery and course graduation dates.
Title: Re: ACSO Questions
Post by: Dou You on September 19, 2011, 16:12:31
Thank you for the quick and informative reply. Although I love playing competitive hockey, it isn't worth the risk like you mentioned.

I guess I will just have to live my hockey life vicariously through the players on the Winnipeg Jets...

Title: Re: ACSO Questions
Post by: Ditch on September 19, 2011, 19:23:11
To add further amplification - this is very much true at all the FTS' around the CF.  As Course Director I would get the occasional CISM/team request - all of these I turned down.  When you are in training you should only have one thing on your mind - getting your Wings.  All else is secondary and thus not important.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: KRach on October 25, 2011, 21:42:13
just out of curiousity, what kind of math exactly? trig, calc, functions? 



Rach :yellow:
Title: ACSO
Post by: PapaJuliet on February 17, 2012, 14:53:39
Can someone please fill me in with some background information on the ACSO trade??

On what basis do they select the type of aircraft you fly on?

Thanks for any help here.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: frank1515 on February 17, 2012, 15:00:28
Who knew forces.gc.ca had some info!

http://www.forces.ca/en/job/aircombatsystemsofficer-30 (http://www.forces.ca/en/job/aircombatsystemsofficer-30)

Before anyone else tells you. Use the search function please.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Jimmy_D on February 17, 2012, 15:01:27
Also you can go to Google, or the search bar on this site for that matter and put in ACSO and it will come up with some links that will help you out.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Dimsum on February 17, 2012, 16:59:34
On what basis do they select the type of aircraft you fly on?

Needs of the CF, then your 3 preferences. 
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on February 17, 2012, 17:03:58
Needs of the CF,you suitability***................that day of the week...........what the career manager had for breakfast......the moon's phase.......... then your 3 preferences.

There, more in line with reality.

**In Dimsum's case, it took while to figure out. I mean, the guy gets posted to 2 different aircframes, qualifies on none, then goes to play with toy planes and gets to do it OUTCAN......wtf ??
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Dimsum on February 17, 2012, 17:13:48
**In Dimsum's case, it took while to figure out. I mean, the guy gets posted to 2 different aircframes, qualifies on none, then goes to play with toy planes and gets to do it OUTCAN......wtf ??

Are you STILL griping about that?   ;D
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on February 17, 2012, 17:15:17
Are you STILL griping about that?   ;D

Clearly  >:D

J/K..........i'm just jealous. But hey, i'm outta here this summer and going back !!
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on February 17, 2012, 17:49:02
J/K..........i'm just jealous. But hey, i'm outta here this summer and going back !!

Yeah, Dimsum you got a pretty sweet deal!

So CDN_A am I reading that correctly?  Can I expect to see the new Pte's trembling with fear at the thought of your return?

Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on February 17, 2012, 17:49:44


So CDN_A am I reading that correctly? 

You did.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: PapaJuliet on February 27, 2012, 14:03:53
Are there any civilian-related trades that I could transfer my ACSO skills to?
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: SupersonicMax on February 27, 2012, 18:10:38
No
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on February 27, 2012, 18:13:03
Are there any civilian-related trades that I could transfer my ACSO skills to?

There are related civilian job opportunities for retired ACSOs. They tend to be very specialized (such as those that run the CP-140 mission simulator).
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: seawolf on June 04, 2012, 17:38:09
Hey,

How do they select ACSO's for 414 sqn?

Is it a course you can take to become a EWO? I assume that flying backseat in the Hawk you would have to have a little more piloting ability as I assume if **** goes south and the Pilot is not capable of flying you have a stick?
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on June 04, 2012, 17:47:05
I assume that flying backseat in the Hawk

They do  not fly Hawks.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: seawolf on June 04, 2012, 17:51:52
They do  not fly hawks.

Ok... sitting in the backseat of the Alpha Jet....sorry. Since it's a 2 seat airframe - I assume a little more knowledge is needed?
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on June 04, 2012, 17:55:46
I assume a little more knowledge is needed?

As far as i know, they are not trained to fly the thing. When crap hits the fan and the pilot is incapacitated, the ejection handle is there.

To answer another of your questions, there is training for ACSOs posted to 414 and is specific to their jobs. In fact, a new training course is in the development process.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: seawolf on June 04, 2012, 18:01:20
Thanks!
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: BobSlob on June 04, 2012, 18:57:59
As far as i know, they are not trained to fly the thing. When crap hits the fan and the pilot is incapacitated, the ejection handle is there.

Correct. In fact, we were given specific orders NOT to attempt to do anything more than orbit till gas is gone. On the other hand.. you will get some stick time if the pilot so wishes.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: seawolf on June 04, 2012, 19:40:23
Thanks!

How does the EWO training work? Is it some course you can try and get later or are there ACSO's sent right to EW and 414?

I'd be MORE then happy to end up in any airframe if selected to ACSO - Just i cant find much detail on the electronic warfare stuff, vs how you get selected for other airframes (read: luck and maybe your preference).

Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: aesop081 on June 04, 2012, 19:46:27

How does the EWO training work?

You get posted to 414, you get the training. Pretty simple.

I've seen both experienced guys and pipes (new guys fresh out of ACSO school) get sent there.
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: seawolf on June 04, 2012, 19:52:14
Perfect. Question Answered.

 :salute:
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: seawolf on June 05, 2012, 19:19:54
I have my ACSO test June 18th at my local CFRC.

I know no one can discuss specifics. I just wrote the CFAT yesterday and passed no issue - is the math harder then in the problem solving section of the CFAT?

All i was told was that it's going to be about 2.5 hrs and I'll have a hard time answering all the questions. Told it was basically a test of how quickly i can do math.

Accurate?
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: aesop081 on June 05, 2012, 19:20:34

Accurate?

Yes.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: seawolf on June 05, 2012, 19:30:55
Thanks for the quick response CDN Aviator.

You seem to be my personal ACSO questions answerer yesterday and today...  :nod:

Cheers
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: aesop081 on June 05, 2012, 19:32:24


You seem to be my personal ACSO questions answerer yesterday and today...  :nod:


Just remember, i ain't an ACSO, i just have to suffer life with many of them.

I did write the ACSO test 4 years ago.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: seawolf on June 05, 2012, 20:03:12
Yea i know you are not an ACSO. Are you an AES Op?

I'm more then happy to get any info I can about the job from all angles. I am interested in ACSO partly because it seems to be evolving, especially with the new technologies of UAV's and EW. Plus, with new airframes (Cyclone, new Hercs) - seems to be a cool place to possibly land.

With my 3 trade choices being very different (LogO, ArmourO and ACSO) - the career manager gave me good advice yesterday. He said to treat them as 3 first choices and not 1. 2. & 3; as I could end up being offered any of them. Thus I have been doing even more research into ACSO, and get more and more interested with everything I read.

Mike
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: aesop081 on June 05, 2012, 20:10:43
Are you an AES Op?

Yes.

Quote
new Hercs)

No ACSOs on the J-Hercs.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: seawolf on June 05, 2012, 20:30:59

No ACSOs on the J-Hercs.

Really? Why is that?
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: aesop081 on June 05, 2012, 20:32:19
Really? Why is that?

The aircraft was designed not needing one.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: seawolf on June 05, 2012, 20:46:24
Ah yes - from the RCAF website on the new J's

Quote
Not only is the new Hercules a more capable aircraft, it also requires fewer crew members than the older Hercules; it flies with a minimum crew of three – two pilots and a loadmaster – compared to five on the older Hercules.

Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: WLUArmyBrat on June 06, 2012, 16:23:07
just out of curiousity, what kind of math exactly? trig, calc, functions? 



Rach :yellow:

Wondering if this question could be answered?
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: SupersonicMax on June 06, 2012, 16:56:40
Really? Why is that?

Because of a 3 letter acronym: GPS
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: Dimsum on June 06, 2012, 18:32:37
Because of a 3 letter acronym: GPS

GPS doesn't solve all nav problems.  Just ask anyone who has taken a wrong turn b/c Garmin said so. 
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: h3tacco on June 07, 2012, 12:57:38
Because of a 3 letter acronym: GPS

Not quite the full story seeing as the brand new just off the production line USAF MC-130J has a three person cockit crew including two pilots and a CSO (USAF equivalent to RCAF ACSO). Of course it has a slightly different mission than our 130Js.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: aesop081 on June 07, 2012, 13:08:44
Of course it has a slightly different mission than our 130Js.

"slightly" is a bit of an understatement  ;D
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: h3tacco on June 07, 2012, 13:19:24
"slightly" is a bit of an understatement  ;D

True.
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: Good2Golf on June 08, 2012, 10:12:43
"slightly" is a bit of an understatement  ;D

 :nod:   

Any Herc packing AGM-114 Hellfire  is indeed "different".  The Combat Shadow II definitely qualifies.


Regards
G2G
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: seawolf on June 21, 2012, 21:58:22
Well test was moved from Monday to tomorrow.

Write it at 9am. Brushing up again on math (just did this a couple weeks ago for the CFAT).

Wish me luck.

Mike
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: Ditch on June 23, 2012, 02:16:12
FMS would be a more appropriate three letter acronym to replace the Navs. A GPS does not manage your fuel endurance or calculate your PNR/ETP. It also blends together other sources (INU, AHARS, etc) to make you ISO compliant with flying north and cross the pond.  Sorry for the tangent. What were we talking about again?  Oh yeh, pilots....
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: Dimsum on June 23, 2012, 03:12:46
FMS would be a more appropriate three letter acronym to replace the Navs. A GPS does not manage your fuel endurance or calculate your PNR/ETP. It also blends together other sources (INU, AHARS, etc) to make you ISO compliant with flying north and cross the pond.  Sorry for the tangent. What were we talking about again?  Oh yeh, pilots....

Yep.  Partially the reason why we aren't called Air Navigators anymore.  Navigation is but one part of what an ACSO does, dependent on airframe (and sometimes an ACSO doesn't even do that.)  But being a SAR dude, you should know that  ;)
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: Good2Golf on June 23, 2012, 10:11:02
Isn't Zoomie an "air defender and destruction co-ordinator" now?  :nod:

Regards
G2G

(p.s. I agree with his FMS observations, but think he should have added "human Kalman-filter" to the list.)
Title: ACSO Test
Post by: hammertime on August 22, 2012, 11:00:29
Hi everybody
I'm a DEO recruit with the ACSO test next week. Just curious if anybody had any helpful insight in regards to studying/preparing for this bad boy?

Cheers
Title: Re: ACSO Test
Post by: SeaKingTacco on August 22, 2012, 11:21:48
Perhaps, you should search the site before you ask a question that has been asked (and answered) before.
Title: Re: ACSO Test
Post by: hammertime on August 22, 2012, 22:50:17
I have already read the previous answered question(s) about the test. I am just seeing if anyone has any "fresh" advice - more info the better. A good reconnaissance is seldom wasted. Thanks
Title: Re: ACSO Test
Post by: nic32 on August 22, 2012, 23:50:05
I did it in February and it is like 10 year old, so fresh advice aren't necessary.

Study your Grade 11 maths, it's not hard at all you just have to remember some mathematics rules  and be quick because you don't have too much time.
Title: Re: ACSO Test
Post by: hammertime on August 25, 2012, 16:40:13
Yeah, thanks nic32. I hear the lack time is the greatest degree of difficulty...
Title: Re: ACSO Test
Post by: estoguy on August 25, 2012, 17:38:31
Yeah, thanks nic32. I hear the lack time is the greatest degree of difficulty...

Definitely.  I did mine last year, and that was my difficulty as well. Really bone up on your speed of calculation. Everything you need to do can be done with your mind, paper and pencil. The practice test that is available from the CF site has exactly the kinds of questions you'll see.  The only difference is the difficulty.

I know I didn't fully complete the math section, but still scored high enough to be even considered for pilot this year, so don't beat yourself up too much if you miss a question or two.  I know that I was "well above average" even having missed a couple. Just focus and do the best you can.

Good luck!
Title: Re: ACSO Test
Post by: Dimsum on August 25, 2012, 23:54:49

I know I didn't fully complete the math section, but still scored high enough to be even considered for pilot this year, so don't beat yourself up too much if you miss a question or two.  I know that I was "well above average" even having missed a couple. Just focus and do the best you can.

Good luck!

Unless the test has changed significantly, the ACSO test is separate from the CFAT so the score on the ACSO test has no bearing on being selected for Pilot.  You may have had the CFAT in mind. 

There are people that score high enough to qualify for Pilot, but don't score high enough on the ACSO test to qualify for ACSO. 
Title: Re: ACSO Test
Post by: estoguy on August 26, 2012, 00:04:06
Well, I look like a... DERP!!!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: ACSO Test
Post by: hammertime on August 27, 2012, 22:48:05
Thanks guys, we'll see how it goes!
Title: Re: ACSO
Post by: csharding on September 12, 2012, 10:54:43
I was just posted to 414.  Posting to the squadron comes down to needs of the squadron, preferences and your course standing.  You do well and you might get what you want.  As for the training, there's nothing to do before the course, just show interest.
CSH
Title: Re: ACSO Testing Question.
Post by: GulfOfTalkin on January 29, 2013, 21:29:20
I have done the ACSO training before and passed it (though I was a level 6 which was the lowest pass category).  It is really a case of listening to the advice of others.  There is very little which can be done to prepare for it.  A review of some high school arithmetic would be helpful, but considering the failure rate for ACSO (which is high enough) if you need to prepare heavily for this test you probably aren't going to make it through the training. 

By the way, does anyone know the official name of the test?
Title: Re: ACSO duties
Post by: hopingfordeo on March 19, 2013, 13:23:05
I realize how old this is, but does anyone have an answer or any information? Thanks.
Title: Re: ACSO duties
Post by: SeaKingTacco on March 19, 2013, 13:27:48
About half of ACSO seats are on the CP140; about a quarter are Maritime Helicopter and the rest are Electronic Warfare, Search and Rescue, Air to Air refuelling, instructional and UAV.
Title: ACSO Day to Day
Post by: sidemount on December 03, 2013, 14:04:44
So Im an NCM, looking at applying as an ACSO in the next UTPNCM competition.

What I'm looking for is the day to day job of an ACSO. I've read the recruiting website info, watched the video and have searched these forums. I've gotten a brief overview of what they do which has peaked my interested. I'm wondering if any ACSO pers on this page would be willing to go a little more in depth WRT their daily duties. The other officer trades I've been looking at, I've been able to spend some time with them on the job to see their day to day. I'd love to do that with ACSO but not really able to do that here in Pet. I'd like to A: see if this is something I would in fact like, and B: the more info I have trade related going into the PSO interview the better.

Thanks
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: anjp on December 04, 2013, 20:48:15
sidemount --

the ACSO/Air Nav occupation is going through changes as the CF tries to figure out which airframes and air communities require a nav.  You probably know that navs are employed in 4 different communities: AirMobility/SAR, Long Range Patrol, Marine Helo, and Electronic Warfare.  The day-to-day job is very different depending on the community in which you're employed.    There's also the (possible) UAV community.  The higher ups originally though that this would be in full swing by now but it has been delayed.   There are many ACSOs in the training system now, clogging it up.  I believe the original thinking was to push more through so that they could be increasingly employed in UAVs and EW.  But since that is not currently the case they have been pushed into other communities which are already at or near capacity (plain english = long training delays).

A nav in SAR would be working shift work, on-call etc. in order to provide search and rescue readiness at a sar squadron.  The job involves a lot of system manipulation, understanding of flight planning, weather, search patterns, effectiveness, and radio comms.  There is some question as to whether navs will continue to be a part of future fixed wing sar, but nothing concrete.

Long Range patrol would be Aurora aircraft on either coast.  Longer missions and the job specifics would be either (1) comms manager and maintaining the legal log or (2) tactical nav...effectively coming up with the plan and putting it into action, along with the rest of the crew.

MH is the Sea King/Cyclone and the nav is the tactical commander.  He runs the whole mission from inside the aircraft.  Probably live on ship for a few months out of the year on deployment ops.  Recommend you try to get a ship tour at some point since it is not for everyone.

EW would be the alpha jet out of Ottawa.  In this role, the nav becomes an electronic warfare expert.  The sqn basically plays a training role with the army, air force, and navy, and can emulate a wide variety of EW threats.  The nav is the expert button-pusher extraordinaire.

Since everyone attends the basic nav course in Winnipeg, it doesn't prepare you for one specific community  but more of a blend of all of them.   Whatever community you're working with, job emphasis is big picture planning.  I like to think that the pilots focus on the safety of aircraft and crew, and the nav focuses on the details of the larger mission.  Weather, electronics, airspace & airmanship, comms, legal logging and whatever the mission is are your paramount concerns day to day. 

It's hard to summarize. Hope this helped.
Title: Re: ACSO Day to Day
Post by: Dimsum on December 04, 2013, 22:19:32
So Im an NCM, looking at applying as an ACSO in the next UTPNCM competition.

What I'm looking for is the day to day job of an ACSO. I've read the recruiting website info, watched the video and have searched these forums. I've gotten a brief overview of what they do which has peaked my interested. I'm wondering if any ACSO pers on this page would be willing to go a little more in depth WRT their daily duties. The other officer trades I've been looking at, I've been able to spend some time with them on the job to see their day to day. I'd love to do that with ACSO but not really able to do that here in Pet. I'd like to A: see if this is something I would in fact like, and B: the more info I have trade related going into the PSO interview the better.

Thanks

If you have the time and the CoC allows, take a trip down to 414 EW Sqn in Ottawa.  EW as a first posting is fairly new (within the past 5 years) so I'd suspect that some of the ACSOs there would have had prior experience in other communities.  414 doesn't keep their aircraft there but at least you'd be able to speak to some people about the job.
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: SupersonicMax on December 04, 2013, 22:56:01
Quick question.  Why aren't EWOs posted to 3 Wing, 4 Wing, Halifax and Victoria (where most CATS aircraft are based), instead of paying full TD every single time they are employed?  In times of severe financial constraints, wouldn't it be the prefered way of doing buisness?
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: sidemount on December 05, 2013, 00:16:46
anjp: you say its hard to summarize....I think you did a pretty damn good job. There is some great information that you have provided and I greatly appreciate the time you took to type it out. It def provides some very good insight as to how the ACSOs tie into flight operations. Very helpful for me, thanks!

Dimsum: I will def look into that hopefully my CoC can help set something up, they are generally on board with most PD like that as long as the op tempo allows for me to get away. Thanks for the suggestion!
Title: Acso promotions
Post by: Juliandam26 on February 26, 2015, 13:00:24
Hi,

I didn't really knew where to post this question, so I apologies if you think this is not the proper tread.

I already have applied to the RCAF to become an ACSO. I would like to know from an actual ACSO, what are the chances to get promoted to higher ranks (Major, Colonel). I have done some research, and all the high rank officer within the RCAF that I was able to find, they are all pilots (or maybe I haven't done a proper research?). Anyways, it is (realistically )possible for an ACSO to reach the rank of Colonel? I did ask this same question to a recruiter, and he told me "YES", but of course, that is his job. I would like to hear an honest opinion from an ACSO or any other officer within the RCAF.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Acso promotions
Post by: dapaterson on February 26, 2015, 13:32:58
The incoming commander of the RCAF is an ACSO; he will be a Lieutenant General.
Title: Re: Acso promotions
Post by: mariomike on February 26, 2015, 14:14:02
I didn't really knew where to post this question, so I apologies if you think this is not the proper tread.

No need to apologise, but ACSO has a merged Q and A thread.

ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=99339.0
Title: Re: Acso promotions
Post by: Eye In The Sky on February 26, 2015, 17:29:42
We have several Maj rank ACSOs in my Sqn alone, in addition to our CO who is a Lt Col.  He replaced another Lt Col who was also an ACSO.   
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: krimynal on February 26, 2015, 18:22:44
wondering something , how close is this related to AWS Tech ( if any relation at all ).

Would someone who's AWS Tech be somewhat familiar with some stuff as an ACSO ? or that is 2 completely different trades?

Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: SeaKingTacco on February 26, 2015, 20:37:47
Completely different trade streams.

Although, I suppose they are related in that AWS techs put armament on an aircraft.

ACSO coordinate the dropping/firing of that armament....
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: Eye In The Sky on February 26, 2015, 23:00:02
On the aircrew side (in the Aurora fleet at least) the AES Ops are the ones that hold the quals for search and kill stores, however their trg and knowledge of those systems isn't as in depth as a trained armourer.  We maintain quals but have rules on when we can or can't arm/pull pins on the things that are found in the aircraft.  Basic summary though is if an armourer is available they do the job.  The Lead NASO will usually be the functioning kill/search stores SME on the crew.  They do their work to support the TACNAV, A/C and Skippers' desires and liase with the AWS guys to launch on time with proper loads. Simplified version of one fleet. 

Depending on the event and stores loaded up, it isn't uncommon for the Snr armourer to talk directly to the TACNAV such as during arming live torps - the armourers are doing all things wonderful in the Bombay and the Tac "owns" the armament controls system (mostly).
Title: Re: Acso promotions
Post by: Juliandam26 on February 27, 2015, 00:17:27
Thanks for that information, that was exactly what I was looking for. I'm looking forward for the next step on my application process.

Mariomike, thanks for the direct link to the ACSO: what is like? tread. I think that is the only (or at least the most complete) tread about ACSOs in this forum. I did read it, but I didn't find anything related to promotion to higher ranks, that is why I posted the question.

Again, than you very much, and if you have any other information regarding ACSO trade, it will be very much appreciated.
Title: ACSO Course in Winnipeg Prep
Post by: Mhelo on March 05, 2015, 22:05:47
Hello, not sure if its been asked before, couldnt find any answers...

I'm currently a 2Lt on OJT awaiting the ACSO course in Winnipeg. I have a bit of flight experience (~21hrs) from pilot training before re mustering acso after I failed my final flight test on PFT. While awaiting training for acso, Ive completed almost every officer development/aircrew courses I could get on or find DL. (almost all the CAFJODs, AFOD 1 & 2, Land survival, Sea Survival, AMT, Basic Electronic Warfare, and will be enrolled for Maritime Warfare shortly.)

I'm still looking at ~ 6-8 Month wait for course, and I`m just looking for advice on what I could look at or familiarize myself with prior to course. Ive heard learning how to read approach plates well could be an asset, and some people on course mentioned looking through the bga and the gph 204,...Really looking for anything that may be helpful.

Any advice at all would be awesome!
Thanks guys!
 :cdn:
Title: Re: ACSO Course in Winnipeg Prep
Post by: Dimsum on March 06, 2015, 03:07:52
What you have suggested definitely helps. 

While not exactly advice for 1CFFTS per se, see if you can get in some rides on airframes with ACSOs in them to see what they do; each community is different and the few days in MOTIVEX may not give you a really good idea of the job.  If you're near the coast and your CoC allows, see if you can get onboard ship (even for a famil tour) to see if you like the idea of being at sea for 6+ months while on a HELAIRDET. 
Title: Re: ACSO Course in Winnipeg Prep
Post by: Mhelo on March 10, 2015, 12:17:43
Thanks for the advice. I have been lucky enough to go out quite a few Sea King famil flights to see what TACCOs do. Hoping to get up to Greenwood for a few aurora flights this summer as well. I have also gone on a few ship tours last summer.

Thanks again, hoping others may have some additional advice for the course?


Cheers
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: brewski5000 on January 27, 2016, 20:36:56
Hi All. I recently passed for ACSO at ACS (yay!). A couple of questions for any ACSOs out there:

I'm just curious if anyone can tell me how the training system is these days (i.e., super backed up or moving quickly). Relatedly, if you're an ACSO, for how long were you on OJT? Does OJT work like it does for pilots (i.e. give preferences, get sent wherever the need/want you)?

I was originally going for pilot, but I had looked into ACSO a bit and was intrigued. I ended up really liking the presentation at ACS and would like to learn more. If there's an ACSO equivalent of that bootcamp to flying blog for pilots, then I'd love to see that, too.
Title: ACSO Postings
Post by: elsalado on October 08, 2016, 20:06:35
Hello all. I recently got a job offer for ACSO and I am wondering if anyone here knows how often in general ACSOs have to move around. I was told by someone that in general they move every 3-5 years so I just want to confirm that here. I'm just concerned that it would be difficult to have a family life with that constant moving around, including occasionally moving to remote areas. My current girlfriend of 3 years is all but guranteed to break up with me over this and I am already worried about the future, in regards to meeting other women and relationships/ marriage and having children.

If I was going for something like pilot at least I can move to a civilian job after my contract is done if I don't want to remain in the forces, but it seems that ACSO does not have a direct equivalent in the civilian world, which is also a concern.
Title: Re: ACSO Postings
Post by: elsalado on October 08, 2016, 20:59:08
Hi mariomike, thanks for linking that thread. I read through it and while it did give me a lot of details about being an ACSO, there wasn't any information about the frequency of moving around the country, unless I missed it when reading though the thread. Hopefully someone reading this can add to that.
Title: Re: ACSO Postings
Post by: reverse_eng on October 08, 2016, 21:07:58
Not an ACSO, but I've worked with them -

They deploy, go away for training, and yes some of the postings leave something to be desired. Aircrew jobs aren't 9-5. I'm sure an ACSO or someone with more knowledge will be along shortly, but from what you've said ACSO (and perhaps military life) may not be a great fit for you.

It all depends what you value in life, and what you want for yourself.
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: MCG on October 09, 2016, 03:04:28
For more on ACSO have a look here: http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Air_Combat_Systems_Officer
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on October 09, 2016, 08:13:15
Your concerns will be the same no matter what trade you pick.

Unless you pick a naval operator/engineer NCM  trade, you should expect to move every 3-5 years.   I know ACSOs who have been living in one spot for close to 15 years, I also know ACSOs who move every 3.   

As for your girlfriend, could she handle you being deployed for 9 months?  I don't know what your relationship is like, but don't hold onto something based on the fear of never meeting anyone else.  Women are everywhere!   

If you are looking long term, you won't need a civilian job, you'll be making over 100k a year and finish with a good pension, all you'll need is a hobby.  That being said, depending on your specialty you would have no problem finding a civilian job.  Defence companies always seem to be hiring.

It's your life, it's your choice!  No regrets!

Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: elsalado on October 09, 2016, 15:12:30
So I guess if I want a stable family life this job wouldn't be the best choice?
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: Blackadder1916 on October 09, 2016, 15:25:45
So I guess if I want a stable family life this job wouldn't be the best choice?

Maybe your definition of "stable family life" is different from that of many who have served.
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: elsalado on October 09, 2016, 15:42:49
I don't mean any offense by that. I mean in terms of having to move the family around every 3-5 years, sometimes to remote towns. Things such as the children having to change schools so often and the wife/husband not being able to maintain a stable career, depending on what that career is, and constantly having to sell houses and finding new places to live. I'm sure there are people who don't mind that and maybe even might enjoy that. Then there's me potentially being deployed for long periods of time. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I've seen so many posts about divorces, air forces guys being on their third wives, wives/ husbands being unable to put up with the lifestyle and general resentment.

Of course I've also seen posts from people with great family lives too. I've just seen so many horror stories that it has me thinking about it.
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: mariomike on October 09, 2016, 16:00:25
I don't mean any offense by that. I mean in terms of having to move the family around every 3-5 years, sometimes to remote towns. Things such as the children having to change schools so often and the wife/husband not being able to maintain a stable career, depending on what that career is, and constantly having to sell houses and finding new places to live. I'm sure there are people who don't mind that and maybe even might enjoy that. Then there's me potentially being deployed for long periods of time. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I've seen so many posts about divorces, air forces guys being on their third wives, wives/ husbands being unable to put up with the lifestyle and general resentment.

Of course I've also seen posts from people with great family lives too. I've just seen so many horror stories that it has me thinking about it.

In case you have not read them already, you may find some of these discussions of interest,

Time away from home for Pilots, ACSOs, and Aerospace Control Officers
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=119510.0

ACSO and his wife 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=90675.0

It somewhat depends on what airframe you wind up flying on.  Maritime helicopter guys probably deploy the most on average, but it will also depend if you get other deployments (such as Afghanistan or a UN deployment) which you can get no matter what airframe you're on.  A buddy of mine on Sea Kings was away from home for more than a year in his first 2 years on squadron (14 months I think).  Guys who go SAR probably deploy less frequently and for much shorter periods of time.  Auroras are probably somewhere in the middle.   

I'm not a Pilot, but the life of an ACSO (schedule-wise) is similar to a Pilot in the Aurora/Sea King communities.  I'll just chime in with some easier answers:

- Personal life:  Yes, most of the postings aren't next to urban centres, but what you define as "meaningful personal life" will come into play.  Being originally from Toronto, it took a while for me to adjust to CFB Comox, but by the time I left I thought I was in one of the best possible posting locations (FYI, Comox is a town of about 20,000 people about an hour away from Nanaimo, BC).  As for relationships, each one is different but the bottom line, IMHO, is if that person isn't good with moving or independent enough to deal with you not being around, it's not going to work.  Also, if you are intent on flying (vice shifting to more of a "staff officer" role in HQ), then the chances of being posted to urban centres (Ottawa, Winnipeg, etc.) would be correspondingly less. 

- Career progression:  It's a bit tough to read, but each IPC (e.g. for Capt the 1-10) corresponds to each year you've been at that rank.  The various letters (A through E) mean the type of entry plan you enrol in (ROTP, etc.)  Many times Pilots will be "double-promoted" from 2LT to Capt since Lt and Capt are generally time-based ranks, but I have seen Lt Pilots before.

- Cost of living:  Not all remote locations are cheap; 4 Wing Cold Lake, for example, is getting some publicity in the news b/c due to housing prices thanks to the oil/gas industry.  Also, Post Living Differential (PLD) will vary between posting locations, and some will seem woefully inadequate to the current housing prices (again, Cold Lake.)

AF Spouses 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=94326.0
2 pages.

how much time do pilots spend away from home 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=36338.0

"You will be gone from home a lot.  In the last 7 months, I have been at home for 19 days.  On average, you can expect to participate in 3-4 3-4 week exercises per year, plus the odd small 1-2 week deployment.  Roughly 3-4 months away from home a year."
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=103289.0

"My dream has been to fly, but family is more important.  What length of time can I expect to be away from home if I get selected for fixed wing (any fixed wing - search and rescue, transport, instructor, fighter, patrol, etc.)?"
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=94311.0

"And how much more time would a pilot be away from home than combat arms?"
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=113867.0

"how family life can vary for a pilot in the CF. ... What occupations tend to be deployed or away from home more often?"
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=12744.110;wap2

"Some things I came up with are being away from home for a long time, not being in a controlled work environment, and not being guaranteed to fly the aircraft that you want to fly."
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=111579.0

etc...

See also,

Away from home
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+acso+family&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=eJL6V7LWIsKC8QeZ0bngAQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+%22away+from+home%22

Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: Loachman on October 09, 2016, 16:22:37
Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I've seen so many posts about divorces, air forces guys being on their third wives, wives/ husbands being unable to put up with the lifestyle and general resentment.

Many Army Guys and Navy Guys, and a lot of civilians with "stable" lives, have had more than one wife as well. Reasons for that vary.

Of course I've also seen posts from people with great family lives too. I've just seen so many horror stories that it has me thinking about it.

Everyone's experiences differ, and there is no way to predict how yours will turn out, regardless of which route you choose.

Join or don't join. There are benefits and sacrifices either way.

For me, the former have far outweighed the latter and I have no regrets for the choice that I made.
Title: Re: ACSO Postings
Post by: Dimsum on October 12, 2016, 00:04:30
Hello all. I recently got a job offer for ACSO and I am wondering if anyone here knows how often in general ACSOs have to move around. I was told by someone that in general they move every 3-5 years so I just want to confirm that here. I'm just concerned that it would be difficult to have a family life with that constant moving around, including occasionally moving to remote areas. My current girlfriend of 3 years is all but guranteed to break up with me over this and I am already worried about the future, in regards to meeting other women and relationships/ marriage and having children.

If I was going for something like pilot at least I can move to a civilian job after my contract is done if I don't want to remain in the forces, but it seems that ACSO does not have a direct equivalent in the civilian world, which is also a concern.

Others have touched on most of my points but, and I'm not being condescending/facetious, if you're worried about moving around and deploying, and the g/f's reaction to that, you may want to seriously sit down and think about whether any job in the military is for you.  All trades have an element of both (more or less is dependent on trade) and if you're already thinking of those as negative, what will happen when you accept the offer and start getting posted around?

As for job prospects out there post-military, it's true that ACSO doesn't have a direct equivalent but it doesn't mean that planning and management experience doesn't count for anything. 
Title: Re: ACSO: What's it like? (merged)
Post by: elsalado on October 15, 2016, 15:23:39
No worries Dimsum, that's not condescending, those are good points. I have to seriously think about this. If I am already worried about it then joining might turn out to be a mistake for me and I should rescind my acceptance of the offer and open up a spot for someone who really wants to join.
Title: Re: ACSO Postings
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on October 15, 2016, 20:04:25
if you're worried about moving around and deploying, and the g/f's reaction to that, you may want to seriously sit down and think about whether any job in the military is for you. 

I'll take the other road.  You may want to seriously sit down and think about your future and if your girlfriend is going to be a part of it.

If you shun a career in the military because you are afraid of losing your girl, what happens in 4 years when you lose your girl?  You will be sitting there thinking, "frig, I should have joined the military". 

I am not saying kick your girl to the curb, I am saying you should go up to her and say "the elsalado train is pulling out and you better hop the frig on, because it's going to be an adventure".

Side note - elsalado?  As in El Salado?  Sounds like a vegan wrestler.  You'll fit right in with the ACSOs.

Title: Re: ACSO Postings
Post by: Eye In The Sky on October 15, 2016, 22:11:14
Side note - elsalado?  As in El Salado?  Sounds like a vegan wrestler.  You'll fit right in with the ACSOs.

(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fbuddyfight%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fc0%2FConan-rofl.gif%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20150612075940&hash=89701b4ce7983ff2203c7b7a69f53fa4)
Title: Re: ACSO Postings
Post by: Dimsum on October 15, 2016, 22:28:28
Side note - elsalado?  As in El Salado?  Sounds like a vegan wrestler.  You'll fit right in with the ACSOs.
(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.us%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2Fnot_even_mad.gif&hash=022a55bbb1796b7b8695137f2d4e6d6c)
Title: ACSO Career Courses
Post by: Cherrysu on May 11, 2017, 09:07:14
So I'm a winged ACSO looking for opportunities for courses I can take that would open up some career possibilities. Just wondering if there's a list of courses somewhere that breaks down which trade is eligible for what. I've tried searching around but it appears my DWAN-fu isn't the greatest, and no one I seem to talk to knows either.
Title: Re: ACSO Career Courses
Post by: dapaterson on May 11, 2017, 10:07:07
DPGR used to have a DWAN database of quals, but one of the last "upgrades" by the PA folks got rid of that useful information.
Title: Re: ACSO Career Courses
Post by: Cherrysu on May 11, 2017, 10:26:50
DPGR used to have a DWAN database of quals, but one of the last "upgrades" by the PA folks got rid of that useful information.
Yeah I've tried digging in the 2CAD page as well as trying to find some of the schools pages but haven't had much luck.
Title: Re: ACSO Career Courses
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on May 11, 2017, 10:55:33
HPMA
Flight Safety
AOEW
Space Operations
Advanced SERE
Arctic Survival
Aerospace Systems
Pretty much anything thrown on by the warfare folks in Trenton
TEWIC


There's much more, but this should keep you busy for a while...

no one I seem to talk to knows either.

Where the frig are you? 
Title: Re: ACSO Career Courses
Post by: Dimsum on May 11, 2017, 13:45:50
Are you newly-winged?  If so, look at Space Ops, Basic Electronic Warfare since they're online and can be done alongside other courses like HPMA and Flight Safety.  Some of the courses Dolphin Hunter mentioned are pretty senior stuff (Aerospace Systems Program in particular).

Also, plug away at AFOD and CAFJOD.
Title: Re: ACSO Career Courses
Post by: Cherrysu on May 18, 2017, 08:43:14
Thanks for the help everyone. I've been killing the PD courses so far. Does anyone have any info on the TACP course? Or the JTAC... I forget which one ACSOs are eligible for.. That sounds like it might be an interesting path to take, just wondering if anyone knows first hand, knows a guy, etc.. Or at least knows how courses like that might be solicited.

Thanks
Title: Re: ACSO Career Courses
Post by: Dimsum on May 18, 2017, 20:33:19
Thanks for the help everyone. I've been killing the PD courses so far. Does anyone have any info on the TACP course? Or the JTAC... I forget which one ACSOs are eligible for.. That sounds like it might be an interesting path to take, just wondering if anyone knows first hand, knows a guy, etc.. Or at least knows how courses like that might be solicited.

Thanks

That will be after your first tour on Sqn.  I believe the JTAC course is still promulgated via message but I haven't seen any messages for those in a while.
Title: ACSO question
Post by: Somethinginteresting on September 06, 2017, 08:58:49
Hi,
I want to enter as an air combat systems officer.
However, what if I don't qualify?  What if I fail the aptitude or screening test, what then?
Do I get booted out for good?  Do I get redirected to another trade?  How long til I can reapply for the job, if ever?
Thanks.
Title: Re: ACSO question
Post by: Dimsum on September 06, 2017, 09:38:21
Hi,
I want to enter as an air combat systems officer.
However, what if I don't qualify?  What if I fail the aptitude or screening test, what then?
Do I get booted out for good?  Do I get redirected to another trade?  How long til I can reapply for the job, if ever?
Thanks.

If you don't qualify, then you might get into your 2nd or 3rd trade choice, if you qualify for those. 
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: jollibee on September 06, 2017, 12:52:26
Hi,
I want to enter as an air combat systems officer.
However, what if I don't qualify?  What if I fail the aptitude or screening test, what then?
Do I get booted out for good?  Do I get redirected to another trade?  How long til I can reapply for the job, if ever?
Thanks.

Depending on your progress so far, you can choose other trades you qualify for (combination of your diploma/degree, CFAT, medical, vision, etc.).
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on September 08, 2017, 16:02:20
If its scores on one or more aspects of the CFAT, yes there are options to rewrite the CFAT later on again.  I don`t remember the specifics, it might be 3 or 6 months you have to wait.  If you aren`t successful then, you have to show prove of academic upgrading before you can write it for the 3rd and last time.

If it was a medical thing, you could rectify the issue and then be considered;  I mention this because ACSO is aircrew and has specific requirements including aircrew medicals and Aircrew Selection to consider.  I have no idea about the Aircrew selection as my trade didn`t do it when I joined the aircrew community.

So, depending on *what* it might be possibly blocking you from being selection for ACSO, yes there could be options to pause, remedy, and then again proceed with ACSO.

Info on the medical category system including the Air Factor stuff here.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/cf-medical-category-system.page

CFACS stuff found here:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/cf-aircrew-selection-centre.page
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: overwatch on December 02, 2017, 21:54:00
What is the role of an ACSO in terms of combat? Do ACSO's see any combat (i.e. airlift of wounded soldiers in theatre in the Chinkooks)? Also, when the CAF was in Afghanistan do the long range patrol air crew stay in an air base in the middle east?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on the ACSO's duty in combat. IIRC they fly specific air frames but none of them are combat oriented.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: dapaterson on December 02, 2017, 22:25:22
Auroras are very combat oriented.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on December 02, 2017, 22:29:42
Auroras are very combat oriented.

Don’t forget about our MH brothers and sisters.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: dapaterson on December 02, 2017, 22:37:16
True.


And also, the commander of the RCAF is a real ACSO.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on December 03, 2017, 02:36:46
What is the role of an ACSO in terms of combat? Do ACSO's see any combat (i.e. airlift of wounded soldiers in theatre in the Chinkooks)?

ACSOs aren't flying in the Tac Hel world that I know of.

Quote
Also, when the CAF was in Afghanistan do the long range patrol air crew stay in an air base in the middle east?

LRP aircrew stayed in the ME, but not in Afghanistan itself.  They flew from a certain location into the airspace and then returned to where they took off from. 

Similarly for OP IMPACT, LRP aircrew who operated in Iraq and Syria flew out of coalition airbase located in a different country.

Quote
I'm just trying to get a grasp on the ACSO's duty in combat. IIRC they fly specific air frames but none of them are combat oriented.

The main platforms you'll find them on are LRP (Aurora) and MH (Sea King/Cyclone).  Both of these are combat aircraft;  not in the traditional way that people associate "combat" with ground combat/army type stuff to and then could link say, a Chinook or Griffon to.

LRP and MH crews train for a variety of combat roles and tasks.  The LRP community is just winding down 3+ years of sustained overland ISR with OP IMPACT.  Prior to that the fleet was involved OP MOBILE.  Here is a link to Punching Above Its Weight:  The CP-140 Aurora Experience within TF Libeccio and OP MOBILE (http://airforceapp.forces.gc.ca/CFAWC/eLibrary/Journal/2012-Vol1/Iss3-Summer/Sections/05-Punching_Above_its_Weight_The_CP140_Aurora_Experience_Within_Task_Force_Libeccio_and_Operation_MOBILE_e.pdf).  This gives a great look into some aspects of Aurora Overland operations and the authors are both ACSOs from the Aurora fleet. 

When not doing overland, there are Maritime operations;  Anti-Submarine and Anti-Surface Warfare, Surveillance, presence patrols, cooperative operations with other departments, counter-drug ops (https://www.facebook.com/CAFOperations/posts/1875055655855074?pnref=story), and always the secondary SAR role.  Example, from this past summer.  http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/rescue-effort-underway-for-sailboats-in-distress-in-mid-atlantic-race-1.3452073

The Aurora, in the case of this SAR, was the key asset - it has much much better search and comms capabilities than a Herc, was able to get an accurate picture of what ships were where close to the scene and pass on info to the distressed vessels and back to the JRCC, etc.  It just has much better systems to search large areas and communicate, but lacks the ability to put SAR Techs on decks (we can drop a SKAD - survival kit air droppable).

Any of the things I've mentioned above...an ACSO is involved in.  We have 2 to 3 ACSO on a crew and they are the ones who plan, coordinate and conduct the mission.  They are knee deep in anything we do and some of our crew commanders are ASCOs.  All 3 of the COs I've had on Sqn to date were/are ACSOs, now that I think of it.

Combat doesn't just involve folks in green covered in mud or dust;  tracking the latest gen foreign subs, finding ISIS and striking them...also combat.  Do Canadian crews fly against foreign subs (https://globalnews.ca/news/2358408/canadian-aircraft-helping-britain-hunt-for-russian-sub-spotted-near-scotland/)? 

 :Tin-Foil-Hat:

I've never done MH myself, but I do know from talking to those folks that with the much smaller crew, the ACSO will share some of the sensor operation duties with the AES Ops/non flying pilot because there is only 1 ACSO and 1 AES Op on each crew; I have no idea if that will continue on the Cyclone.

As a LRP ACSO you won't operate sensors, you'll have 4 AES Ops in the seats operating them for you and 1 AES Op in the back end doing all the ordinance work for you.  You're job is to take all that info/data, consider it and then plan 'the next move' ( a very simplified version of what happens). 

 :2c: from an LRP AES Op.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on December 03, 2017, 18:19:23
EITS pretty much nailed it.  The one thing I'll add is that for the Auroras, 1 of the 2-3 does what he says (takes data and plans, etc) and the other 1 or 2 deal with communications via multiple means (HF, VHF, UHF radios, secure and unsecure means, Link, Chat in some instances, etc) as well as specific navigation requirements.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: carpeboi on December 12, 2017, 15:08:24
I've got the call this morning, i'm joining as an ACSO the 15 January 2018 (french cours). I'm so excited.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Loachman on December 13, 2017, 20:00:53
ACSOs aren't flying in the Tac Hel world that I know of.

Confirmed.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: SupersonicMax on December 14, 2017, 00:23:02
EITS pretty much nailed it.  The one thing I'll add is that for the Auroras, 1 of the 2-3 does what he says (takes data and plans, etc) and the other 1 or 2 deal with communications via multiple means (HF, VHF, UHF radios, secure and unsecure means, Link, Chat in some instances, etc) as well as specific navigation requirements.

Man, it sounds a lot like what one person does in a fighter, on top of flying the aircraft!  :D
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Crimmsy on December 14, 2017, 01:13:10
You're not wrong Max, but what does that contribute to the conversation?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on December 14, 2017, 02:01:35
I think its more zoomies poking at zoomies...but, remember SSM is like most people in the CAF...they'll never see a MPA or MH 'live' and understand how much information is coming into the tac tube from comms and sensors.  We can literally detect and then have to manage...well, a lot of tracks (I can't say how many...but its more than 3 figures at the same time)...sub-surface, surface and airborne fed into the tube from RADAR, ESM, Acoustics, EO, and 2 handfuls of comms link like mentioned. 

LRP and fighters are like runners...there's different types.  Fighter are more like sprinters to me (I've gone to a shot eval during MAPLE ...what happens in seconds is amazing, actually).  LRP is more like long distance.  We're slower, but go longer and we see more along the way.  Fighters can't take on a SSBN, SSGN etc so...I get that they're a little jealous of us and have to poke fun sometimes because they can't take on the big targets, you know, the ones that are 'global killers' like a SSBN.   ;D 

Then there is the MH folks with the Cyclone...which will take in megaloads of sensor data but with even a smaller crew to manage it.   Just thinking about it makes me think "Tylenol Extra Strength". 

Also...fighter guys can transit to the battle space quicker BUT....we have a galley.  AND...a bathroom.   ;)  I don't know any fighter guys who've had ONSTA pizza and nachos.  ;)

Zoomies poking fun at other zoomies...not much different than the Zipperheads and Herbies slinging crap at each other.   :subbies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r6_mVLkThE
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: SeaKingTacco on December 14, 2017, 02:05:38
You're not wrong Max, but what does that contribute to the conversation?

It contributes nothing to the conversation, other than to confirm that fighter pilots are dicks, who cannot be bothered to learn about anything outside their own cockpits.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Infanteer on December 14, 2017, 08:53:06
Man, it sounds a lot like what one person does in a fighter, on top of flying the aircraft!  :D

Man, that sounds a lot like what one civilian does in a UAV shed in Nevada, on top of going home for lunch!   :D #youareallobsolete
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Baden Guy on December 14, 2017, 09:45:46
Sorry but I can't resist putting up the oldie but a goodie.  :D

The Herc and the F-15s

A couple of F-15's are escorting a C-130 Hercules, and their pilots are chatting with the pilot of the transport to pass the time. Talk comes ‘round to the relative merits of their respective aircraft. Of course the fighter pilots contend that their airplanes were better because of their superior speed, maneuverability, weaponry, and so forth, while the putting down the Herc’s deficiencies in these areas.

After taking this for a while, the C-130 pilot says, "Oh yeah? Well, I can do a few things in this old girl that you'd only dream about." Naturally, the fighter jocks challenge him to demonstrate.

"Just watch," comes the quick retort.

And so they watch. But all they see is that C-130 continuing to fly straight and level..

After several minutes the Herc pilot comes back on the air, saying "There! How was that?"

Not having seen anything, the fighter pilots reply, "What are you talking about? What did you do?"

And the Herc pilot replies, "Well, I got up, stretched my legs, got a cup of coffee, then went back an took a leak."
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: SupersonicMax on December 14, 2017, 10:49:34
It contributes nothing to the conversation, other than to confirm that fighter pilots are dicks, who cannot be bothered to learn about anything outside their own cockpits.

Can't take a joke?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Journeyman on December 14, 2017, 11:44:16
"RCAF Trial By Combat: saying mean-spirited things until someone gives up Reports to a Mod!".... next on Spike TV.

[where's that *****-slap emoji when you need it]

      :pop:
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on December 14, 2017, 12:10:16
Man, that sounds a lot like what one civilian does in a UAV shed in Nevada, on top of going home for lunch!   :D #youareallobsolete

Hey, stop telling everyone my retirement plan!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on December 14, 2017, 13:14:50
Hey, stop telling everyone my retirement plan!

You already had a jammie go...can't you let us poor operators have a chance at happiness too?   :'(

 ;D
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Loachman on December 14, 2017, 13:45:15
Can't take a joke?

Several years ago, before "snowflake" took on its latest additional meaning, I referred to SAR helicopters as "gaudy yellow" in a work e-mail.

Three months later, a CO-to-CO e-mail was forwarded to me down the Squadron chain-of-command. The butthurtedness was hilarious.

For my Dead Guy Photo for my second tour in Kandahar, I wore a "Loachman" nametag, and my rank slip-on had my first name on it instead of the unit title. While home on leave, this photo (from my neck down) was apparently put up during Comd TFK's CUB one day. I was accused of such things as "desecrating a CF slip-on" and "not treating the war seriously" (I did, but not the prospect of my death; if it did happen, however, I wanted friends and family to at least get a chortle or two out of it) and ordered to get a new photo taken  as soon as I got back. Our A3, however, thought that both photo and fuss were excruciatingly funny.

So, no, not everybody.

By the ring around his eyeball,
You can tell a bombardier.
You can tell a bomber pilot
By the spread around his rear.
You can tell a navigator
By his sextants, maps and such.
You can tell a fighter pilot
BUT YOU CAN'T TELL HIM MUCH!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on December 14, 2017, 19:54:53
Several years ago, before "snowflake" took on its latest additional meaning, I referred to SAR helicopters as "gaudy yellow" in a work e-mail.

Three months later, a CO-to-CO e-mail was forwarded to me down the Squadron chain-of-command. The butthurtedness was hilarious.

For my Dead Guy Photo for my second tour in Kandahar, I wore a "Loachman" nametag, and my rank slip-on had my first name on it instead of the unit title. While home on leave, this photo (from my neck down) was apparently put up during Comd TFK's CUB one day. I was accused of such things as "desecrating a CF slip-on" and "not treating the war seriously" (I did, but not the prospect of my death; if it did happen, however, I wanted friends and family to at least get a chortle or two out of it) and ordered to get a new photo taken  as soon as I got back. Our A3, however, thought that both photo and fuss were excruciatingly funny.

So, no, not everybody.

By the ring around his eyeball,
You can tell a bombardier.
You can tell a bomber pilot
By the spread around his rear.
You can tell a navigator
By his sextants, maps and such.
You can tell a fighter pilot
BUT YOU CAN'T TELL HIM MUCH!

Hell, one of our guy's DGPs was him (a larger fellow) brandishing a plastic fork and knife in a karate stance.  I'm sure it wasn't the official one, but knowing him, he probably *really* tried to make it so.

Anyways, back to ACSOs - we sometimes do things. 
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: BurmaShave on December 14, 2017, 23:07:26
Man, fighters is an instant thread derail button  ::)

For ACSOs, aren't they also backseaters in the Alpha Jet at 414?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: SeaKingTacco on December 15, 2017, 01:42:09
Yes.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Loachman on December 15, 2017, 13:05:12
How many fighter pilots does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on December 15, 2017, 13:41:39
Don't they have Aero-techs to do that ???
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Blackadder1916 on December 15, 2017, 14:50:01
How many fighter pilots does it take to screw in a light bulb?

According to them they don't actually screw it in, they just hold the bulb and the world revolves around them.

(Surgeons claim to have the same ability.)
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Overboard on March 05, 2018, 23:12:43
Hi all,

A few questions.

1. How many months per year are ACSOs deployed for MH and LRP?
2. How many years does it take to become a Major for those who want to and are competitive?
3. How many years does a Captain spend on their airframe before being sent to a desk job.
4. Is it possible for an ACSO to get dive or parachute training?

Edit: Also do those on MH have secondary duties like the ship's crew?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: dapaterson on March 05, 2018, 23:16:51
Hi all,

A few questions.

1. How many months per year are ACSOs deployed for MH and LRP?
2. How many years does it take to become a Major for those who want to and are competitive?
3. How many years does a Captain spend on their airframe before being sent to a desk job.
4. Is it possible for an ACSO to get dive or parachute training?

Thank you!

ACSOs parachuting is generally a sign that things have gone terribly, terribly wrong.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: SeaKingTacco on March 06, 2018, 00:06:28
Hi all,

A few questions.

1. How many months per year are ACSOs deployed for MH and LRP?
2. How many years does it take to become a Major for those who want to and are competitive?
3. How many years does a Captain spend on their airframe before being sent to a desk job.
4. Is it possible for an ACSO to get dive or parachute training?

Edit: Also do those on MH have secondary duties like the ship's crew?

Thank you!

1. It varies wildly based on luck of the draw. Anywhere from 0 days to 9 months.
2. Depends on entry scheme, how hard you work and what operational/staff experience you get. As a very minimum, it is 4 years as a Captain and about 4-6 years getting to Captain. So anywhere from 10 years all they way up to never...
3. There is no hard rule, but generally two flying tours are followed by a staff tour. So, 6-8 years flying followed by 3-4 years on a desk.
4. Yes, but it depends on vacancies on thoses courses and you are nowhere near their target audience.
MH duties on ship- at sea, you are busy enough with your primary job of flying and keeping the operations of the air department going that you have little time for anything else but food, sleep and a bit of PT. Alongside foreign port, you will stand as Duty Air Officer once every 5 days. In your home port, you have little enough to do with the ships as you are busy at your Sqn.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Jazz on May 02, 2018, 16:01:59
Hello Everyone!

I just recently got back from ACS!  I passed for AEC and ACSO (but not pilot, and this was expected).  Before I went, I was leaning towards AEC more, but now that I have had some time to really think about it, I have been really seriously considering ACSO over AEC, and I feel like it would be a more challenging and rewarding career for me personally. 

So, I was hoping that any current ACSO's would be able to share with me their personal views on the pros and cons of this trade, or any other information they had wished they had known before they accepted the trade!  Just a bit of background information on me, I'm a female in my mid 20's with no current ties to the city I'm living in, so the idea of possibly travelling quite a bit is appealing...

Any help, information, or tips are much appreciated!

Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on May 02, 2018, 16:27:42
So, I was hoping that any current ACSO's would be able to share with me their personal views on the pros and cons of this trade, or any other information they had wished they had known before they accepted the trade!  Just a bit of background information on me, I'm a female in my mid 20's with no current ties to the city I'm living in, so the idea of possibly travelling quite a bit is appealing...

Any help, information, or tips are much appreciated!

Pros:  Lots of travel, generally live in coastal areas (Vancouver Island or Nova Scotia, with some possibility of Winnipeg or Trenton with Search and Rescue aircraft) for your first tour,

Cons:  Lots of time away for courses and deployments/taskings, no direct civilian prospects (unlike AEC)

Feel free to PM me with more questions.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Antonioakatrell on September 04, 2018, 18:32:47
Hello ,

I am a current ACSO candidate waiting on firm dates for ACS and was wondering. What parts of the ACS test matter for ACSO as I want to buckle down on those sections.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Titix on September 06, 2018, 23:56:17
Hello,

In regard to my educational background, my recruiting officer just offered me to pick ACSO as an occupational choice. It wasn't part of any of my 3 original choices (not available anymore) but I would be very interested to pick that one as my new #1 choice, the other choice available being Military Police Officer (I'm not really into it).

I've been a plane lover since childhood but I eventually found out after several years I could never be a pilot or an ACSO in the French air force because I had eyewear (I moved in Canada since then and got my citizenship). Thing is, I had laser eye surgery 5 years ago and now I see perfectly good. It looks like I still can't be a pilot in the RCAF (V2 visual acuity required and corneal reshaping procedures are not approved for Pilots, website says), but there is no such restriction for ACSO (V3 is ok, and there is no word about eye surgery).

Does anyone know about ACSO and eye surgery? I would like to reply to my recruiter but I want to make sure I'll be medically fit.

Another question : After my high-school diploma in France, with a science and engineering major, I did one year of engineering school before I quit to take a totally different path (marketing, communications). I hear that high school math is good enough to succeed at the test. Is there any practice test available to train before the exam?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Ashkan08 on September 07, 2018, 00:56:04
Hello,

In regard to my educational background, my recruiting officer just offered me to pick ACSO as an occupational choice. It wasn't part of any of my 3 original choices (not available anymore) but I would be very interested to pick that one as my new #1 choice, the other choice available being Military Police Officer (I'm not really into it).

I've been a plane lover since childhood but I eventually found out after several years I could never be a pilot or an ACSO in the French air force because I had eyewear (I moved in Canada since then and got my citizenship). Thing is, I had laser eye surgery 5 years ago and now I see perfectly good. It looks like I still can't be a pilot in the RCAF (V2 visual acuity required and corneal reshaping procedures are not approved for Pilots, website says), but there is no such restriction for ACSO (V3 is ok, and there is no word about eye surgery).

Does anyone know about ACSO and eye surgery? I would like to reply to my recruiter but I want to make sure I'll be medically fit.

Another question : After my high-school diploma in France, with a science and engineering major, I did one year of engineering school before I quit to take a totally different path (marketing, communications). I hear that high school math is good enough to succeed at the test. Is there any practice test available to train before the exam?

Thanks!
Do you mean for the aptitude test?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Titix on September 07, 2018, 02:00:59
Not for the CFAT. I think I'll be ok (I hope!). I mean for the ACS test which I think comes afterward. I didn't study science or math during my post secondary studies so I don't want to hope too big if this test is like high-level math oriented! On the other hand I don't think that all ACSO have an engineering degree!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on September 07, 2018, 02:06:45
Not for the CFAT. I think I'll be ok (I hope!). I mean for the ACS test which I think comes afterward. I didn't study science or math during my post secondary studies so I don't want to hope too big if this test is like high-level math oriented! On the other hand I don't think that all ACSO have an engineering degree!

Think about it this way - most folks who are going for ACSO take the test in high school to get into Royal Military College.  It'll be high school math at most.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Titix on September 07, 2018, 02:27:45
That's right, I didn't think about that. Well I'm 33 so if things go well I'll need a refresh and pay for some math lessons anyways! Thanks.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Spc_Cdt on November 06, 2018, 11:26:37
Anyone know approx how long from BMOQ to getting wings for ACSO? I just passed ACS, waiting on Air Factor. Since everything else in my file is complete, I'm hopeful for a job offer (as long as I get AF2). So now I'm trying to figure out a timeline... silly me didn't take any screenshots from the ACSO presentation in Trenton  :facepalm:

Can anyone help me fill in the blanks? Did I get this right?

TRAINING PROGRESSION ( ?? yrs to wings)
15 weeks BMOQ (St-Jean)
?? weeks Sea Survival (??)
?? weeks Land Survival (??)
1+yr ACSO course (Winnipeg)

** receive wings **
1+ yr posted to squadron while waiting for OTU

COMMON INITIAL POSTINGS
- Aurora (long range patrol): Greenwood NS, Comox BC
- Cyclone (maritime helicopter): Shearwater NS, PatBay BC
- Polaris (refuel): Trenton
- Herc (SAR): Trenton, Greenwood, Winnipeg, Comox
- Alpha Jet (e-warfare): Ottawa

Career Progression
- 1st tour: flying
- 2nd tour: instructional (Winnipeg)
- 3rd tour: staff positions

After Baseline Employment
- possible OUTCAN postings to Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft squadrons

Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Guy Incognito on November 18, 2018, 18:03:50
Can anyone help me fill in the blanks? Did I get this right?

TRAINING PROGRESSION ( ?? yrs to wings)
15 weeks BMOQ (St-Jean)
Posted while waiting for ACSO Course - Indeterminate amount of time
1 week Sea Survival (??)
1 week Land Survival (??)
1 week Aeromedical Training
1+yr ACSO course (Winnipeg)

** receive wings **
1+ yr posted to squadron while waiting for OTU


In terms of start to wings, the biggest variable is going to be how long it takes to get onto the ACSO course after BMOQ. A fair value to anticipate would be about 2 years from start to wings.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Campbell95 on December 05, 2018, 17:18:12
I am curious about an ACSO's role in SAR operations. From what I understand, they are the navigators. I would like a little more detail on what their role looks like in a typical SAR operation. Is there a thread that talks about this or has anyone had experience in SAR that could help me out? Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Ditch on December 08, 2018, 15:51:44
SAR ACSOs Work at the tactical level on the platform.  They program the various search patterns in the kit, maintain comms with outside agencies and also act as a safety person in the back of the Buffalo for live para and supply drops.  The new airframe will have them sitting in front of a massive array of sensors (EO/IR, RADAR, Nav data, etc). 

In the transport role - they are in charge of flight planning the IFR or VFR leg and for programming the on-board Nav computer.

SAR Navs are the last true navigators in the RCAF. 
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Spc_Cdt on December 11, 2018, 18:40:05
In terms of start to wings, the biggest variable is going to be how long it takes to get onto the ACSO course after BMOQ. A fair value to anticipate would be about 2 years from start to wings.

That's great info, thanks!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on January 22, 2019, 20:33:32
Hey Guys,

Just had a question for anyone in the ACSO training system or someone that knows from experience. I have recently applied for CEOTP as an ACSO and my application, ACS, medical are all completed and awaiting the selection board this spring. I am just wondering that if I'm selected and subsequently posted to Winnipeg to complete the ACSO course, sea/land survival etc. if I am entitled to a full move including my family, or if it is a restricted posting (only me)? The 1.5+ years it will take to complete the all the training is a long time to be away from family!

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: carpeboi on January 28, 2019, 17:07:33
For now it’s a full move. Don’t know about the new course.


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Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on February 01, 2019, 18:42:28
For now it’s a full move. Don’t know about the new course.


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Great thanks, do you happen to know when the new courses are expected begin? Within the year? If Im selected this April I would assume I would begin course sometime between June and the end of the year.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on February 01, 2019, 21:51:39
On average a course starts every two months.   Selected in April?  I’d expect a July/Sept start.

Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on February 02, 2019, 11:14:58
On average a course starts every two months.   Selected in April?  I’d expect a July/Sept start.

Ok thanks Dolphin. Maybe I should clarify the question. The poster above mentioned that for now when people are posted to Winnipeg for the ACSO course that they're entitled to a full move, and that this may change when the new and shorter course is introduced. So the question I I have is, does anyone have an idea when this new potentially  shorter course is scheduled to run for the first time? This may give me an idea of whether or not I can expect a full move if selected this April.

Dolphin, For those ACSOs that are entering the trade from the NCM side, there are NCM commissioning competitions like CEOTP and UTPNCM. The selection boards are normally held annually with selected applicants notified around the April/May time frame. What happens between the time when you are selected and the time you begin the ACSO course is what I'm trying to figure out lol.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: carpeboi on February 02, 2019, 13:37:13
You will be on the new course, if there is no change and you are select. The wait between the BMOQ  ( or moving to winnipeg) and ACSO course may varie for 3 month to 1 year for now. depend on so many things. One of the intents with the new course is to cut the waiting time. The best and this is the method I use is to focus on one step at time. Get selected and BMOQ for now or get selected and move to winnipeg if you are already in the forces. The waiting time is case by case and really difficult to anticipate. Hope I didn’t demotivate you.


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Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on February 02, 2019, 16:28:04
You will be on the new course, if there is no change and you are select. The wait between the BMOQ  ( or moving to winnipeg) and ACSO course may varie for 3 month to 1 year for now. depend on so many things. One of the intents with the new course is to cut the waiting time. The best and this is the method I use is to focus on one step at time. Get selected and BMOQ for now or get selected and move to winnipeg if you are already in the forces. The waiting time is case by case and really difficult to anticipate. Hope I didn’t demotivate you.


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Thanks for the Info, I will bypass BMOQ,  I'm just trying to figure out if I will be able to bring my family with me to Winnipeg and if not how long I could expect to be away. I guess I'll just have to wait and see if I'm selected and then see what the posting message says.  Thanks again everyone for your info and advice.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on February 02, 2019, 23:09:30
Dolphin, For those ACSOs that are entering the trade from the NCM side, there are NCM commissioning competitions like CEOTP and UTPNCM. The selection boards are normally held annually with selected applicants notified around the April/May time frame. What happens between the time when you are selected and the time you begin the ACSO course is what I'm trying to figure out lol.

No worries, I knew what you meant (I meant to type - If selected in April). I am familiar with the selection dates and all that goes with it.  This time last year I was in a similar position.  That being said, I am currently on course at 402.  If I hear anything about upcoming courses/changes I’ll let you know.

Good luck with the process.

 
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on February 03, 2019, 01:40:55
No worries, I knew what you meant (I meant to type - If selected in April). I am familiar with the selection dates and all that goes with it.  This time last year I was in a similar position.  That being said, I am currently on course at 402.  If I hear anything about upcoming courses/changes I’ll let you know.

Good luck with the process.

Thanks Dolphin, that would be much appreciated! Good luck on course!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Titix on March 04, 2019, 01:25:53
Hello,

What are the odds of being an ACSO on Alphajet? As I believe this is the only jet an ACSO can expect to experience?
And is there any ACSO operating on a Cormoran SAR ?
I'd love to complete missions on those two airframes...
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: reverse_eng on March 04, 2019, 02:06:13
If you are interested in being a backseater on something like an Alpha Jet (or whatever they use nowadays) do a search for "EWO". If I remember correctly, there are a few people on here that have done that gig.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Ditch on March 04, 2019, 02:56:15
And is there any ACSO operating on a Cormoran SAR ?
There are not.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on March 04, 2019, 08:48:13
Hello,

What are the odds of being an ACSO on Alphajet? As I believe this is the only jet an ACSO can expect to experience?
And is there any ACSO operating on a Cormoran SAR ?
I'd love to complete missions on those two airframes...

Newly minted ACSOs will most likely find themselves in the MH/LRP/FWSAR communities.  Alpha Jets and AAR are posting options as well, but there are fewer spots to fill in those communities. 

The odds of being posted to Alpha jets is slim, not impossible.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: carpeboi on March 04, 2019, 09:17:50
For alpha 1 peson per course got post on this aircraft in the last year. So look like a 1/8 for now but can change anytime.


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Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on March 04, 2019, 14:03:49
Newly minted ACSOs will most likely find themselves in the MH/LRP/FWSAR communities.  Alpha Jets and AAR are posting options as well, but there are fewer spots to fill in those communities. 

The odds of being posted to Alpha jets is slim, not impossible.

Also, Alpha Jets aren't a community - people go there for one tour then off to another platform.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Titix on March 05, 2019, 02:28:41
Quote
Also, Alpha Jets aren't a community - people go there for one tour then off to another platform.

Thanks. Do you mean that is different on other airframes?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: SeaKingTacco on March 05, 2019, 10:27:04
Thanks. Do you mean that is different on other airframes?

Generally, you stay with your airframe for your career. Occasionally, people ask to be moved from one airframe to another, but it is not common.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Titix on March 13, 2019, 01:58:18
Thank you all for your answers. But the more I look for information about ACSO, the more I have questions!

- TechCrmn says he's waiting for the selection board to sit this spring. Is there only one session per year or can I expect to receive an offer anytime in the next 12 months?

- I also read that we can take the ACSO course in french (my first language). If so that would certainly help me to better perform (and get a better chance to choose my first posting). However I have heard that the ACSO and Pilot courses are only taught in english since this is the international language for aircrew and radio communications. That said all Officers are supposed to become fully bilingual between BMOQ and the moment they start their professional instruction, aren't they? Any thought?

- Concrete question about the job : I believe it depends of the airframe, but do an ACSO move a lot in the aircraft or are they mostly sitting at a desk staring at screens and doing math?

- What type of weaponry does an ACSO operate? Looking at all squadrons, I only think about torpedoes so far.

Thank you for helping me better understand my (hopefully) future job!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Blackadder1916 on March 13, 2019, 14:12:25

- TechCrmn says he's waiting for the selection board to sit this spring. Is there only one session per year or can I expect to receive an offer anytime in the next 12 months?


If you knew how the CAF works (and you are not expected to know that unless you are, or were, a serving member) you would realize that TechCrmn's situation is different than yours and any timing expectations that he has will have no relation to you.  TechCrmn is currently a serving member of the CAF and applied for commissioning (as an ACSO) under an in-service Continuing Education Officer Training Program (CEOTP).  The application deadlines that he had to meet and the number of available positions that he is competing for is completely separate from that which you (as a civilian) are chasing.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: carpeboi on March 13, 2019, 14:24:31
- I also read that we can take the ACSO course in french (my first language). If so that would certainly help me to better perform (and get a better chance to choose my first posting). However I have heard that the ACSO and Pilot courses are only taught in english since this is the international language for aircrew and radio communications. That said all Officers are supposed to become fully bilingual between BMOQ and the moment they start their professional instruction, aren't they? Any thought?

Ne t’inquiète pas trop pour ça ! Tu vas devoir faire un test de classement d’anglais sur ton qmbo et tu dois obtenir une certaine note pour pouvoir aller directement sur ton cours d’acso sans cours d’anglais. Ceci étant dit, J’ai passé de justesse le test de classement et commencer mon cours d’acso en comprenant absolument rien quand on me parlait en anglais. Les instructeurs sont a 40-50% des francophones et ils comprennent notre situation. Quand tu ne comprends pas quelque chose tout le monde essaie de t’aider!! Sa ne ma jamais empêcher de performer ou quoi que ce soit ! La plupart du temps c’est simplement drôle ! Et si je regarde ce que tu écris ton niveau d’anglais est plus élevé que le mien présentement ! 


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Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 14, 2019, 11:30:33
Hey Again,

Just a question for any qualified or trg ACSO's....When do new ACSOs begin receiving Aircrew Allowance? Is it after wings, upon commencement of the ACSO course, or at another time?

I am guessing that at a minimum students would be receiving casual aircrew allowance for flight days while on the ACSO course?

Thanks
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: dapaterson on March 14, 2019, 11:50:32
You receive the standing allowance once qualified and posted into an eligible position.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 14, 2019, 13:45:01
Hey Dapaterson,

Thank you for your reply. When you say "qualified" do you mean qualified ACSO (wings) or qualified on type? (FWSAR, MH, LRP, etc)

Thanks again
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on March 14, 2019, 22:07:06
Aircrew Allowance (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/compensation-benefits-instructions/chapter-205-allowances-for-officers-and-non-commissioned-members.html#sec-32)

205.32(1) (Intent) Aircrew Allowance (Monthly) is financial compensation paid for the performance of assigned duties where there is continual and substantial exposure to the environmental conditions associated with flying operations.

205.32(2) (Definition) In this instruction, “aircrew” means:

(a) a pilot who is paid under CBI 204.215 (Pay – Officers – Pilots – Lieutenant Colonel, Major and Captain);

(b) a member who is aircrew badge qualified and current in the operation of aircraft or airborne equipment to the standard that is established from time to time by or under the authority of the CDS; or

(c) a member who is flight crew badge or specialist flight crew badge qualified and current to the standard that is established from time to time by or under the authority of the CDS.

205.32(3) (Entitlement) Subject to paragraph (4), an aircrew member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force who is on either Class “B” or “C” Reserve Service is entitled to this allowance if all of the following conditions are satisfied:

(a) the aircrew member occupies a designated position for the purposes of this instruction;

(b) the aircrew member reports for duty in the designated aircrew position; and

(c) the member is not disentitled under CBI 205.29 (Environmental Allowances Matrix) or CBI 10.3.08 (Environmental Allowances).

205.32(4) (No Entitlement) There is no entitlement to this allowance if an event provided in paragraph (2) of CBI 205.15 (No Entitlement — Common Events) occurs.

205.32(5) (Amount) The amount of this allowance is:

(a) for a full month of entitlement, the monthly rate set out in the Table to this instruction;

(b) for less than a month of entitlement, the amount calculated by the formula

[ ( A ÷ 30 ) × N ]

where

A is the monthly rate set out in the Table to this instruction, and

N is the number of days in that month that the aircrew is entitled to this allowance.

(TB 1 June 2017, effective 1 September 2017)


Back before the 2017 changes, when I was on Sqn waiting MOAT we were entitled to AIRCRA as we were Wings qual'd, awaiting training and posted to a flying Sqn.  Now, it's as per above.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 15, 2019, 00:16:28
Aircrew Allowance (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/compensation-benefits-instructions/chapter-205-allowances-for-officers-and-non-commissioned-members.html#sec-32)

205.32(1) (Intent) Aircrew Allowance (Monthly) is financial compensation paid for the performance of assigned duties where there is continual and substantial exposure to the environmental conditions associated with flying operations.

205.32(2) (Definition) In this instruction, “aircrew” means:

(a) a pilot who is paid under CBI 204.215 (Pay – Officers – Pilots – Lieutenant Colonel, Major and Captain);

(b) a member who is aircrew badge qualified and current in the operation of aircraft or airborne equipment to the standard that is established from time to time by or under the authority of the CDS; or

(c) a member who is flight crew badge or specialist flight crew badge qualified and current to the standard that is established from time to time by or under the authority of the CDS.

205.32(3) (Entitlement) Subject to paragraph (4), an aircrew member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force who is on either Class “B” or “C” Reserve Service is entitled to this allowance if all of the following conditions are satisfied:

(a) the aircrew member occupies a designated position for the purposes of this instruction;

(b) the aircrew member reports for duty in the designated aircrew position; and

(c) the member is not disentitled under CBI 205.29 (Environmental Allowances Matrix) or CBI 10.3.08 (Environmental Allowances).

205.32(4) (No Entitlement) There is no entitlement to this allowance if an event provided in paragraph (2) of CBI 205.15 (No Entitlement — Common Events) occurs.

205.32(5) (Amount) The amount of this allowance is:

(a) for a full month of entitlement, the monthly rate set out in the Table to this instruction;

(b) for less than a month of entitlement, the amount calculated by the formula

[ ( A ÷ 30 ) × N ]

where

A is the monthly rate set out in the Table to this instruction, and

N is the number of days in that month that the aircrew is entitled to this allowance.

(TB 1 June 2017, effective 1 September 2017)


Back before the 2017 changes, when I was on Sqn waiting MOAT we were entitled to AIRCRA as we were Wings qual'd, awaiting training and posted to a flying Sqn.  Now, it's as per above.

Great thanks, I guess I should have just looked it up lol
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on March 16, 2019, 08:33:26
Great thanks, I guess I should have just looked it up lol

No worries;  I'm with the government and I'm here to help!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 16, 2019, 13:20:06
No worries;  I'm with the government and I'm here to help!

Yea unfortunately sometimes even when you do find the policy it can be a little ambiguous :S For example, the policy states in the case of an ACSO "(b) a member who is aircrew badge qualified and current in the operation of aircraft or airborne equipment to the standard that is established from time to time by or under the authority of the CDS"

The first part is clear in that once you complete the ACSO course you will be aircrew badge qualified and would meet that requirement.

Although the second part current in the operation of aircraft or airborne equipment is not really clear and should refer to the qualification point of the member instead ie. wings, operational functional point(OFP), etc. because technically once you finish your ACSO course you would be current in the operation of airborne equipment just not all airborne equipment as it relates to your specific aircraft type.

Anyway, Eye in The Sky, or anyone else in the know, could you tell me if this currently means new ACSOs would get AIRCRA immediately following wings or if it has changed to after on-type training or in other words OFP?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eagle Eye View on March 16, 2019, 13:41:11
When you’re ACSO Wing qualifies and posted into a flying line number. Your aircrew start. A lot of us got an aircrew backpay because the RCAF didn’t follow the policy. We used to get aircrew allowance once OFP, but that changed last year I believe.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 16, 2019, 14:16:31
Okay great, that's exactly what I wanted to know! If you don't mind me asking, what platform are you on?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on March 16, 2019, 15:17:23
That was already given;  this part of the CBI.  If you're not posted into a designated flying position, you shouldn't be getting AIRCRA.  While in trg, you should get Casual AIRCRA for the days you fly.  I think the folks on OTU (MOAT for us) no longer get AIRCRA until they're quald and in a flying position on Sqn.

205.32(3) (Entitlement) Subject to paragraph (4), an aircrew member of the Regular Force or of the Reserve Force who is on either Class “B” or “C” Reserve Service is entitled to this allowance if all of the following conditions are satisfied:

(a) the aircrew member occupies a designated position for the purposes of this instruction;

(b) the aircrew member reports for duty in the designated aircrew position; and

(c) the member is not disentitled under CBI 205.29 (Environmental Allowances Matrix) or CBI 10.3.08 (Environmental Allowances).

Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 16, 2019, 15:59:03
Well technically when a new ACSO is posted to a unit they are posted into a designated flying position( ie SAR O, TACCO, etc) as your position (remar#) at a unit seldom changes once you're there.  A new ACSO will obviously not perform the job until fully qualified on OTU or MOAT but their position on paper and with respect to the CBI is indeed a designated flying position. If part of your duty as a new ACSO is to conduct OTU and MOAT then you could argue that while on trg you are "reporting for duty in the designated aircrew position". Anyway, I know all this theoretical interpretation doesn't really mean much because someone at a much higher pay grade decides how this is applied,  that's just my two cents lol

Thanks again for all of your help!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on March 16, 2019, 20:04:32
I'm 99% sure you can't (shouldn't) be posted into a designated flying position until you're qualified for it; you could be posted to 4XX Sqn, but into a MMO, etc. 

I got AIRCRA as a PAT (Wings grade) while waiting for MOAT, but the CBI has changed since then.  I'm not sure but I think our flyers on MOAT are getting CAS AIRCRA until they're complete, back at the Sqn and moved into a designated crew (flying) posn.  I can verify that Monday.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 16, 2019, 21:11:22
Ah ok, I assumed you were posted to a unit first then the unit sends you on the MOAT, I didnt realize you remained posted to a PAT section until after MOAT or OTU and then you're sent to a unit. When I was talking about positions I was just referring to the actual positions (you see on EMAA, under position finder). When you get posted to a new unit you will actually fill one of these positions regardless if your trainined or not, there is no such thing as a "trainee position" except at a school. The idea is you get posted to a unit with the basic skills then they qualify you the rest of the way, but the entire time if you look on EMAA you are slotted in a TACCO, SARO, etc position right from the get go. But yea I would really appreciate knowing how its actually done if you could inquire!   
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on March 16, 2019, 21:26:33
Ah ok, I assumed you were posted to a unit first then the unit sends you on the MOAT, I didnt realize you remained posted to a PAT section until after MOAT or OTU and then you're sent to a unit.

You are sent to a unit on OJT prior to MOAT. 
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eagle Eye View on March 16, 2019, 22:59:59
Dimsun,

That’s innacurate, once wing qualified, new ACSOs are posted to Sqn flying line numbers, hence why they are entitled to aircrew allowance without being MOAT qualified. We constantly have this problem with the AES Ops, were a new member comes in, then a qualified member must be posted out to make room for new folks.

This is why a lot of aircrews (including myself) received a back pay of aircrew allowance last year because we were actually entitled to draw it even though we were still awaiting for MOAT.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on March 16, 2019, 23:24:33
Dimsun,

That’s innacurate, once wing qualified, new ACSOs are posted to Sqn flying line numbers, hence why they are entitled to aircrew allowance without being MOAT qualified. We constantly have this problem with the AES Ops, were a new member comes in, then a qualified member must be posted out to make room for new folks.

This is why a lot of aircrews (including myself) received a back pay of aircrew allowance last year because we were actually entitled to draw it even though we were still awaiting for MOAT.

And that has changed several times in the past 4-5 years as well;  one year, everyone was entitled to it if they were Wing grade and awaiting training at a Sqn, the next year they weren't.  Enquires were made all the way up the chain, different people were given different answers.  End state - the CBI changed 1 June 2017, effective 1 September 2017.

I don't know specifically about ACSO, but AES Ops coming on Sqn who are not OFP (MOAT qual'd) are not put into a crew flying position.  I think I was the Assisant D/Ops O on paper until after MOAT.  I received AIRCRA from my COS date onward, but the CBI I posted earlier has changed since then (was last updated in Sep 2017).  Aircrew not MOAT qual'd can't hold a flying position on a crew;  I'll hazard a guess that a ACSO who hasn't completed OTU can't occupy the TACCO position on a Cyclone, either.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 17, 2019, 00:42:41
Dimsun,

That’s innacurate, once wing qualified, new ACSOs are posted to Sqn flying line numbers, hence why they are entitled to aircrew allowance without being MOAT qualified. We constantly have this problem with the AES Ops, were a new member comes in, then a qualified member must be posted out to make room for new folks.

This is why a lot of aircrews (including myself) received a back pay of aircrew allowance last year because we were actually entitled to draw it even though we were still awaiting for MOAT.

Ok good to know, thanks!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Ditch on March 17, 2019, 03:19:28
The latest direction from DMCA is that unqualified Pers will not fill a line position on the REMAR - they will be on a type of BTL (ATL?) list  and remain there until OFP for that Sqn.   This will eliminate the skewed stats that falsely show a Sqn is manned to xx%.   I am unsure as to how (or if) line squadrons are managing this, YMMV.

If you aren’t OFP and not occupying a flying position, you won’t get AIRCRA.   Even if you are occupying a flying position and don’t actually fly, your AIRCRA will cease - as it does for those who are medically grounded etc.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on March 17, 2019, 08:49:54
TechCrmn

I think it's important to read the entire applic parts of the CBI to get a full understanding of how it is today, vice a few years ago.

CBI Chap 205, Allowances for officers and non-commissioned members (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/compensation-benefits-instructions/chapter-205-allowances-for-officers-and-non-commissioned-members.html#sec-15)

Aside from the applic part for AIRCRA (205.32), you could have a browse thru:

- 205.10 Designated Positions  (if you read this one *to Notes*, it talks about MMO positions/entitlement scenarios); and
- 205.15 No entitlement, common events (this covers when you stop receiving an allowance for TCAT, PCAT, Leave, etc).
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eagle Eye View on March 17, 2019, 11:00:44
Okay that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on March 17, 2019, 18:00:02
Ok great, thank you both for all of your help!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: 5kc11 on April 03, 2019, 18:49:31
Hello,

I apologize if this has been asked. But, I have not been able to find an answer.

Assuming an acso completes their first contract of 9 years. What happens after if they choose to extend?  Does the cycle repeat itself?
Ie
1st tour operational flying post
2nd tour instructional at Winnipeg
3rd staff position.

Or do they tend to stay in a staffing position for the remainder of their career?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on April 03, 2019, 20:36:02
Hello,

I apologize if this has been asked. But, I have not been able to find an answer.

Assuming an acso completes their first contract of 9 years. What happens after if they choose to extend?  Does the cycle repeat itself?
Ie
1st tour operational flying post
2nd tour instructional at Winnipeg
3rd staff position.

Or do they tend to stay in a staffing position for the remainder of their career?

First, the instructional tour isn't always in Winnipeg - it is more likely to be at the Operational Training Unit for the airframe.  After that, it's less structured; some will be Majors and go back for a Flying Supervisor tour at a squadron, some will stay as staff officers, etc. 

The staff position (#3 on your list) isn't guaranteed either - some people have never done a staff tour in 25+ years of service.  It all depends on what the need is and what your preferences are.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 08, 2019, 21:11:41
Just a question for any career status (VOT/UTPNCM/SCP/ETC) ACSOs that are currently awaiting their ACSO course... do they allow you to stay at your local BTL (closest to where your family resides) until the beginning of your ACSO course? Or do you have to go to Winnipeg right away upon transfer and wait there to be loaded on the ACSO/Sea survival/aeromedical/etc course?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on May 08, 2019, 21:20:23
Just a question for any career status (VOT/UTPNCM/SCP/ETC) ACSOs that are currently awaiting their ACSO course... do they allow you to stay at your local BTL (closest to where your family resides) until the beginning of your ACSO course? Or do you have to go to Winnipeg right away upon transfer and wait there to be loaded on the ACSO/Sea survival/aeromedical/etc course?

Thanks in advance!

I've known a couple who have stayed at their unit or at least the Wing and continued to do their previous job.  I'm not sure how that would work if an element transfer was also involved though.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 08, 2019, 22:01:09
I've known a couple who have stayed at their unit or at least the Wing and continued to do their previous job.  I'm not sure how that would work if an element transfer was also involved though.

Well I'm Airforce so there wouldn't be an element change and I'm posted close to Trenton, so hopefully I could go to a unit there and do some OJE prior to course. I'm just not sure how much of a backlog if any there currently is for the new ACSO course?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on May 09, 2019, 07:37:00
Well I'm Airforce so there wouldn't be an element change and I'm posted close to Trenton, so hopefully I could go to a unit there and do some OJE prior to course. I'm just not sure how much of a backlog if any there currently is for the new ACSO course?

Last I heard there wasn’t much of a backlog.  They have also started loading 12 per course and have made drastic changes to the course outline.  It is a much shorter course now.

Odds are that you will remain in Trenton until your course starts.

Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 09, 2019, 07:57:03
Last I heard there wasn’t much of a backlog.  They have also started loading 12 per course and have made drastic changes to the course outline.  It is a much shorter course now.

Odds are that you will remain in Trenton until your course starts.

Ok great thanks! What about the shorter pre requisite courses? (sere/aero med/etc) do they all line up back-to-back or would I have to travel back 2 Winnipeg / Comox for each different course?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on May 09, 2019, 23:35:46
Ok great thanks! What about the shorter pre requisite courses? (sere/aero med/etc) do they all line up back-to-back or would I have to travel back 2 Winnipeg / Comox for each different course?

I would expect to fly back and forth for each course.   Pick up an Aeroplan card and create a WestJet Rewards account.

Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 10, 2019, 07:17:48
I would expect to fly back and forth for each course.   Pick up an Aeroplan card and create a WestJet Rewards account.

Yea I spoke with my BTL manager and he also said as much, I'll have to get the West Jet rewards, I'm already an avid Aeroplaner lol

Thanks again for the info!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on May 10, 2019, 10:20:07
I'm pretty sure you (and whoever has these) do this, but make sure those frequent flyer rewards numbers are in your HRG profile too.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 11, 2019, 09:43:01
I'm pretty sure you (and whoever has these) do this, but make sure those frequent flyer rewards numbers are in your HRG profile too.

Yea good point! I completely forgot about HRG,  I dont think I've used it in at least 4 years.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on May 11, 2019, 12:23:36
Yea good point! I completely forgot about HRG,  I dont think I've used it in at least 4 years.

You'll use it for sure as an ACSO.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 11, 2019, 15:40:25
Hey guys,

Can you confirm which courses are prerequisites for loading the ACSO Course?

Right now I'm tracking AMT Initial Aircrew, sea survival, basic EW, and BSERE (is this AOS-L, or AOS-SERE, or neither?)

Thanks
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on May 11, 2019, 15:45:41
BSERE is now called the AOS-L (Air Operationss Survival - Land).  Depending on time of year, it can be an enjoyable course - mine was in late Nov/early Dec.

Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 11, 2019, 17:01:19
BSERE is now called the AOS-L (Air Operationss Survival - Land).  Depending on time of year, it can be an enjoyable course - mine was in late Nov/early Dec.

Ok thanks! With that being said, what is a good time to take the course? I'd prefer cold over mosquitoes, but not sure where the AOS-L is conducted nor when the mosquitoes disappear for the winter in that area lol
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on May 11, 2019, 17:27:41
The training site is Springer Lake, NE of Winnipeg/close to the Ontario border.  I know a few guys who did summer courses and they looked like they'd been shot 1000 times with 12 guage birdshot, they had so many bug bites.   :nod:

I did mine in late Nov/early Dec.  No mud, no bugs, no snow (we may have gotten lucky!).  Average daytime temp on mine was +8, which was lucky for that time of year.  I had a blast on mine, if I would have gotten some game on my solo I would have stayed longer and enjoyed it.

If you go to the Winnipeg/17 Wing DIN site, look for CFSSAT (CF School of Survival and Aeromedical Training).  They used to have their course calendar online where you could see where they are running AMT, AOS-L, etc.  The same for BEW, that should be under the Barker College, also on the 17 Wing site.

For Sea Survival, you should be able to find that on the 19 Wing site under CFSSAR (CF School Search and Rescue).  I also loved the sea survival course, did mine in October at Quadra.

If you're interested, you might also consider doing the Basic EW course via DL.  I did mine that way;  3 months to complete vice the 1 week residential course, and something to do while you're on BTL.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on May 11, 2019, 18:00:15
EITS:  It's Barker College, not Baker.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on May 11, 2019, 18:15:58
EITS:  It's Barker College, not Baker.

Oops!   ;D   RCAF W/C William G. Barker VC Aerospace College (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/cf-school-aerospace-studies.page)

Is BEW a pre-req ACSO course?
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 11, 2019, 18:34:07
The training site is Springer Lake, NE of Winnipeg...

Ok great thanks for all of the info and the pictures too, it's much appreciated!

BEW is a prerequisite according to the ACSO TP I was able to find, I dont think it's the new TP though....
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 11, 2019, 21:13:31

If you're interested, you might also consider doing the Basic EW course via DL.  I did mine that way;  3 months to complete vice the 1 week residential course, and something to do while you're on BTL.

I'm hoping that while I'm on BTL they will send me to Trenton to do some OJE but if I do end up sitting around for any length of time I'll definately consider the DL (that's assuming I'm given the option), although I'd prob prefer to get it over with in a week residentialy.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dolphin_Hunter on May 12, 2019, 12:38:32
I'm hoping that while I'm on BTL they will send me to Trenton to do some OJE but if I do end up sitting around for any length of time I'll definately consider the DL (that's assuming I'm given the option), although I'd prob prefer to get it over with in a week residentialy.

I know the week option sounds appealing.  However, the BEW course covers quite a bit of information.  Personally I’d recommend the DL method if that’s available to you.

Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on May 12, 2019, 12:55:23
I know the week option sounds appealing.  However, the BEW course covers quite a bit of information.  Personally I’d recommend the DL method if that’s available to you.

I agree.  It's a bit of a firehose and having the time to do it via DL helped.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 12, 2019, 15:20:05
I know the week option sounds appealing.  However, the BEW course covers quite a bit of information.  Personally I’d recommend the DL method if that’s available to you.

I agree.  It's a bit of a firehose and having the time to do it via DL helped.

Thanks for your opinion guys, maybe I'll go for the DL if I'm given the option and have the time, much appreciated!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Guy Incognito on May 27, 2019, 19:18:43
I'm on the first serial of the new ACSO course. BEW is a prerequisite as are AOS-L, AOS-S, and AMT. I don't think Barker College offers a residential BEW course any more. AOEW is still residential though.

AFOD Block 1 also is required to graduate, but can be done while on course if necessary.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on May 27, 2019, 20:15:23
I'm on the first serial of the new ACSO course. BEW is a prerequisite as are AOS-L, AOS-S, and AMT. I don't think Barker College offers a residential BEW course any more. AOEW is still residential though.

AFOD Block 1 also is required to graduate, but can be done while on course if necessary.

Hey Guy,

How long after BMOQ did it take you to complete all the prerequisite courses you mentioned and begin your ACSO Course? I'll be transferring to my local BTL in July and then I will begin doing all those courses (I bypassed BMOQ). It would be great to have an idea how long I could expect to be waiting until I'm able to get on an ACSO serial.

Thanks
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Guy Incognito on June 13, 2019, 23:55:05
Hey Guy,

How long after BMOQ did it take you to complete all the prerequisite courses you mentioned and begin your ACSO Course? I'll be transferring to my local BTL in July and then I will begin doing all those courses (I bypassed BMOQ). It would be great to have an idea how long I could expect to be waiting until I'm able to get on an ACSO serial.

Thanks

I would expect prerequisite training will be completed rather quickly. I haven't heard of long waits for AOS-L, AOS-S, or AMT. Get self-enrolled on BEW and AFOD Block 1 ASAP.

I'm the odd case on my course, as I remustered from another aircrew trade, so I had all the prerequisite courses already completed. The rest of my course mates are DEO, and they all were able to complete BMOQ, all prerequisite training, and be ACSO course loaded in about 1 year. In my case, I was course loaded about 4 months after my effective remuster date.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on July 03, 2019, 19:07:56
I would expect prerequisite training will be completed rather quickly. I haven't heard of long waits for AOS-L, AOS-S, or AMT. Get self-enrolled on BEW and AFOD Block 1 ASAP.

I'm the odd case on my course, as I remustered from another aircrew trade, so I had all the prerequisite courses already completed. The rest of my course mates are DEO, and they all were able to complete BMOQ, all prerequisite training, and be ACSO course loaded in about 1 year. In my case, I was course loaded about 4 months after my effective remuster date.

Ok that's great to know, I recently received my promotion to 2lt so I should be able to register for BEW and AFOD Block 1 now while I await course loading.

Just have another couple of questions... as a career status mbr did you have to pay R&Q while on course or was it considered TD and covered?

What are the  accomodation arrangements while on the ACSO Course? (Number of persons per room, shared washroom, etc.)

Are the AOS-L, AOS-S, and AMT courses done back to back or will I have to travel from here in Kingston on 3 different occasions to complete the courses  prior to heading to winnipeg for the ACSO Course?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Eye In The Sky on July 03, 2019, 19:36:39
(not an ACSO...I can tie my own boots  8))….mine were spread out, I did AMT in Oct, then went back for AOS-L in Nov/Dec and did AOS-S a year or two later in Oct.

Crse availability and *priority* factors in...and your ACSO crse pre-reqs, and along with that 'what' ACSO crse they are loading you on.

They're all great courses, hope you enjoy them!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: TechCrmn on July 03, 2019, 22:07:49
(not an ACSO...I can tie my own boots  8))….mine were spread out, I did AMT in Oct, then went back for AOS-L in Nov/Dec and did AOS-S a year or two later in Oct.

Crse availability and *priority* factors in...and your ACSO crse pre-reqs, and along with that 'what' ACSO crse they are loading you on.

They're all great courses, hope you enjoy them!

Haha that's why I got boots with zippers :P.... I'm hoping to get on an ACSO course beginning in 2019 and completing all prerequisite courses between now and then. This may be a bit optimistic on my part but I think its definitely possible if there isn't a back log for the ACSO and pre-req courses as Guy had mentioned previously. Thanks again for the info!
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Spc_Cdt on August 17, 2019, 18:33:12
Hey guys!
I got my offer for DEO-ACSO in July, headed to BMOQ Sep 07. I'm so freaking excited!!!  ;D
Although I'm not too worried about BMOQ (it sounds akin to being on a varsity/provincial sports team.. which I've done plenty!), I am however anxious about trade school.
Any tips you guys can give me?
Like, how can I best prepare myself before heading to Winterpeg, and how to best succeed while I'm there?
Thanks in advance!
So blessed and honoured to be part of this trade :D
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Dimsum on August 17, 2019, 19:00:04
Hey guys!
I got my offer for DEO-ACSO in July, headed to BMOQ Sep 07. I'm so freaking excited!!!  ;D
Although I'm not too worried about BMOQ (it sounds akin to being on a varsity/provincial sports team.. which I've done plenty!), I am however anxious about trade school.
Any tips you guys can give me?
Like, how can I best prepare myself before heading to Winterpeg, and how to best succeed while I'm there?
Thanks in advance!
So blessed and honoured to be part of this trade :D

If you have a chance to do some on-the-job training at a squadron with ACSOs in it, it will help you see how things work from their end.  Otherwise, a bit of background on aviation (From The Ground Up is a good book) will help but not required.  Don't do it before or during BMOQ - you'll be busy enough.

During the course, be prepared to "drink from the firehose" but also have weeks of doing nothing because of serviceability and other issues.  On the ACSO course (and BMOQ now that I think about it) you'll be working closely with others so help them out, and seek help, when you can.  Don't screw people over to make yourself look good - it may work short-term but it *will* come back to bite you. 

Oh, also don't get a sense of entitlement over NCMs because you're an officer.  That mindset can creep up on you but as an ACSO, more often than not you'll be working with NCMs (AES Ops, SAR Techs, FEs, Loadmasters) that will see that.  Basically, don't be a dick.

Good luck on BMOQ and ACSO training.  Maybe I'll see you on squadron sometime.
Title: Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
Post by: Spc_Cdt on August 19, 2019, 13:50:53
If you have a chance to do some on-the-job training at a squadron with ACSOs in it, it will help you see how things work from their end.  Otherwise, a bit of background on aviation (From The Ground Up is a good book) will help but not required.  Don't do it before or during BMOQ - you'll be busy enough.

During the course, be prepared to "drink from the firehose" but also have weeks of doing nothing because of serviceability and other issues.  On the ACSO course (and BMOQ now that I think about it) you'll be working closely with others so help them out, and seek help, when you can.  Don't screw people over to make yourself look good - it may work short-term but it *will* come back to bite you. 

Oh, also don't get a sense of entitlement over NCMs because you're an officer.  That mindset can creep up on you but as an ACSO, more often than not you'll be working with NCMs (AES Ops, SAR Techs, FEs, Loadmasters) that will see that.  Basically, don't be a dick.

Good luck on BMOQ and ACSO training.  Maybe I'll see you on squadron sometime.


Thank you so much for the advice, it's much appreciated!!