Author Topic: Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death  (Read 88386 times)

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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2012, 22:02:40 »
Verdict is in on the Maj Watts trial.

Not guilty of manslaughter and two other charges but guilty of negligent performance of a military duty and unlawfully causing bodily harm.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/major-found-not-guilty-of-manslaughter-in-training-death-1.1065573
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2012, 22:24:51 »
FJAG when do you anticipated his punishment coming down?
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2012, 22:45:40 »
FJAG when do you anticipated his punishment coming down?

Sentencing starts Jan 14, according to this story.

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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2012, 22:46:42 »
Appreciated
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2013, 11:35:08 »
Training manslaughter court martial begins in Shilo

Winnipeg Sun
28 Jan 2013

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/01/28/training-manslaughter-court-martial-begins-in-shilo

Quote
A court martial beginning today in CFB Shilo will probe whether a former military officer, previously based in Winnipeg, was responsible for a comrade's death in Afghanistan.

Cpl. Joshua Caleb Baker, of Edmonton, was 24 when he was killed near Kandahar City in a Feb. 12. 2010, incident on a training range in which four other soldiers were injured.

Military officials said at the time that Baker died during the course of "a routine military exercise."

.....Article continues at link.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2013, 19:04:01 »

CTV Winnipeg
28 Jan 2013

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/former-soldier-pleads-not-guilty-to-six-charges-including-manslaughter-1.1132378

Quote
Paul Ravensdale, a retired warrant officer, pleaded not guilty to multiple charges Monday at a court martial in Shilo.

The charges are for a training accident in February 2010 that killed Cpl. Joshua Baker and injured four other soldiers in Afghanistan.

Ravensdale is accused of manslaughter, unlawfully causing bodily harm, two counts of breach of duty and two counts of negligence.

 Cpl. Baker was hit in the chest with a C-19 Claymore explosive.

The anti-personnel mine was loaded with steel balls. Something went wrong on the day in question, and many of the balls shot backward, piercing the bodies of the soldiers.

Prosecutor Maj. Tony Tamburro said the incident “was entirely foreseeable and entirely preventable.”

The prosecution is set to call 22 witnesses. The first, Christoper Lunney, said Ravensdale seemed “very capable” and the range exercise was “his opportunity to put his mark on the platoon.”

When the prosecution asked Lunney if anything prevented Ravensdale from asking soldiers to take cover in the trucks while the weapon was being fired, he said no.

Lunney previously pleaded guilty for his role and was demoted to captain from major following the shooting range accident.

Maj. Darryl Watts is also awaiting sentencing on charges of negligence and unlawfully causing bodily harm.

The court martial case for Ravensdale is set to continue for three weeks.


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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2013, 13:20:48 »
FJAG when do you anticipated his punishment coming down?

The current court martial schedule has him slated to reappear on Feb 20th. I expect sentencing will take place on that day.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2013, 19:59:07 »
'All hell broke loose and I... don't know what happened'
Video shows soldiers standing in direct sight of landmine
30 Jan 2013
The Canadian Press

Quote
SHILO, Man. -- Three days after leading a training exercise that went horribly wrong and killed a fellow soldier, warrant officer Paul Ravensdale told a military investigator he had no idea what caused the accident.

"All hell broke loose and I honestly don't know what happened," Ravensdale is heard saying in a recorded interview played Tuesday at his court martial at CFB Shilo in Manitoba.

"I honestly felt I did everything right."

Ravensdale, who is now retired, faces six charges -- including manslaughter and unlawfully causing bodily harm -- in the accident that occurred on a weapons range in Afghanistan on Feb. 12, 2010.

Soldiers were testing anti-personnel landmines, C-19s, that were new to the mission.

When the landmines are detonated during tests, soldiers are supposed to be far behind the weapons, sheltered in dugouts or inside vehicles, prosecutors have said.

Ravensdale is accused of ignoring those rules by letting soldiers stand near the weapons without any cover.

The first set of mines was set off without any trouble. During the second firing, some of the 700 small steel balls packed inside one mine shot backwards instead of forward.

Four balls struck Cpl. Josh Baker, including one in the chest that killed him. Four other soldiers suffered puncture wounds -- one had an injured kidney.

Ravensdale told the investigator he had given a safety briefing on the range in which he told everyone to stand well back of the weapon and behind light armoured vehicles, or LAVs.

He gave the order to set off the weapon and the soldier charged with the detonation did so.

The force of the explosion surprised him, he told the investigator.

"It sounded a hell of a lot bigger than it should have been."

Prosecutor Maj. Tony Tamburro said outside the hearing that even if the explosion went awry, the soldiers should have been protected.

"The prosecution is alleging that... had the safety regulations been followed, regardless of why the ball bearings fired backwards, people would have been safe."

Tamburro played a short video of the first firing, which shows two soldiers beside -- not behind -- a LAV and in direct sight of the landmine.

"They were not under cover, so there was nothing between them and the (mines) being detonated," he later told reporters.

The video was shot by Master Cpl. Scott Lawrence, a medic who testified he only had "his armour and the camera" between himself and the landmine.

Under cross-examination by Ravensdale's lawyer, Lawrence admitted he felt safe where he was standing.

"I did feel I was not in danger at that point," Lawrence said. "I felt fairly safe, with the armour I was wearing."

Lawrence tended to the wounded after the accident and recalled performing CPR on Baker, who was medevaced by helicopter with the other injured soldiers.

Ravensdale would later tell the investigator he was puzzled as to how he managed to escape injury while others were hit. "I honestly don't know why I didn't get hit."

Two other soldiers have already been convicted in the accident.

Maj. Christopher Lunney has been demoted to captain and given a severe reprimand after pleading guilty to negligent performance of duty in the incident.

Maj. Darryl Watts is awaiting sentencing on charges of negligence and unlawfully causing bodily harm.

Ravensdale's court martial is expected to last three weeks.

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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2013, 20:03:00 »

Emotional day in military court at C.F.B. Shilo
CTV Winnipeg
04 Feb 2013

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/emotional-day-in-military-court-at-c-f-b-shilo-1.1143007

Quote
It was an emotional day of testimony inside the trial of a former Canadian Forces Commander.

Retired Warrant Officer Paul Ravensdale pleaded not guilty to six charges including manslaughter in death of Corporal Joshua Baker. The 24-year-old died during a training accident in Afghanistan in 2010.  Four other soldiers were injured.

Those soldiers testified for the first time Monday.

They told the military court on Feb. 12, 2010, the only thing standing between them and the C-19 they were learning to use was their body armor. The prosecution says Ravensdale should have never let that happen.

They were standing out in the open when two C-19 land mines, also known as claymores, were set off during a training exercise.

Cpl. Joshua Baker was killed when shrapnel from one of the explosions backfired.

The commander, now retired Warrant officer Paul Ravensdale has pleaded not guilty to six charges including manslaughter and breach of duty.

Major Tony Tamburro is prosecuting the case.  "This is not an accident. When you take reasonable precautions and something goes wrong that's an accident. This is not an accident,” he said.

Two of the wounded soliders had been standing with Cpl. Baker when the land mine went off.  Both were seriously injured.

Master Bombardier Daniel Scott spent months in hospital to repair a hole in his chest.

 "I just remember seeing the ground lift up….because there were pellets striking us from the ground," Master Bombadier Scott told the court.

Master Corporal William Pylypow was walking towards the light armored vehicle when a ball bearing went in through his bicep and exited out his tricep.

"My arm was pinned behind my tac vest. At the time I thought I lost my arm. I thought I was the only one hit. I began shouting medic, medic ... But by the fourth time I realized I wasn't the only one hit. I saw guys dropping," Master Corporal Pylypow testified.

Each witnesses called to the stand was asked by the prosecution, “What if any safety instruction were they given prior to beginning the exercise?” One soldier remembered Ravensdale saying "Stand behind the vehicles." Another testified he understood that to mean behind the line of lav's and not the actual armor.

Corporal Jaime Linn told the court, "I didn't feel like I was in danger. I was comfortable.  Nobody said anything to me so I felt good".

Major Tamburro said if you are running a range, you don't leave it up to the individual soldiers to decide where's safe and where's not.

“You tell hem where's safe and where's not and you make sure there are in places that are safe,” Tamburro told CTV News following the court proceedings.

Testimony is scheduled to continue tomorrow.  The prosecution will call its last witness.

This is the last of 3 courts martial in the training accident. ..... continues (briefly) at link

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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2013, 17:49:49 »
Deliberations underway in manslaughter court martial
Soldier accused of manslaughter in Afghanistan training accident
CBC News
13 Feb 2013

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2013/02/13/mb-deliberations-court-martial-ravensdale-shilo.html

Quote
Five members of the Canadian military are deciding if one of their peers is guilty of manslaughter on a Manitoba military base.

Deliberations are underway in the court-martial of former Manitoba soldier Paul Ravensdale.

Ravensdale is facing six charges associated with a fatal mine explosion in Afghanistan, including manslaughter and negligence.

In 2010, an explosion killed Cpl. Joshua Baker and wounded four other officers.

Ravensdale was leading a test of anti-personnel mines on a weapons range when the accident happened.

A weapon misfired and sent steel balls flying into the platoon conducting the test.

Ravensdale was in charge of that exercise. It is alleged that he violated a number of safety procedures before the fatal explosion by letting other soldiers stand too close to the mine without being in a dugout or under cover.

A five-member panel of military personnel received their final instructions Wednesday from the military judge presiding over the case.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2013, 17:16:52 »

Soldier cleared of manslaughter in Afghanistan training accident

The Canadian Press
14 Feb 2013
copy at: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/soldier-cleared-of-manslaughter-in-afghanistan-training-accident-1.1157067

Quote
SHILO, Man. -- A retired Manitoba warrant officer has been found not guilty of manslaughter in a 2010 training accident in Afghanistan that killed a fellow soldier.

Paul Ravensdale has been convicted of four of the five other charges, the most serious being unlawfully causing bodily harm. The other convictions are on two counts of breach of duty and one count of negligent performance of military duty.

He was acquitted on a second charge of negligent performance of military duty.

 Ravensdale was leading a test of anti-personnel mines in February 2010 when one misfired and sent hundreds of steel ball bearings in the wrong direction.

The ball bearings killed Cpl. Josh Baker and injured four others.

The prosecution had argued that Ravensdale ignored safety rules and allowed soldiers to stand too close to the mine, but the defence said Ravensdale was simply following plans approved by his superiors.

During Ravensdale's court martial in Shilo, Man., the military panel, which is akin to a jury in a civilian trial, was presented with two very different pictures of how he acted on the weapons range near Kandahar city three years ago.

Prosecutor Maj. Tony Tamburro painted him as a weapons expert who behaved recklessly by allowing soldiers to stand too close to the C-19 anti-personnel mines without being shielded or in a dugout.

The operating manual for the mines, as well as Canadian Forces training safety rules, require people to be 100 metres behind C-19s unless they are shielded. Video played at the court martial showed some soldiers much closer than that and with nothing protecting them.

Ravensdale also flouted rules that require soldiers to first train on inert weapons before attempting a live exercise, Tamburro said.

Ravensdale's lawyer, Maj. Philippe-Luc Boutin, said no one could have predicted the mine would act the way it did. He said the 100-metre limit is designed to protect people from minor injuries that might be caused by stones or other debris being kicked up by the blast.

Boutin also pointed to testimony from witnesses who said Ravensdale had told them to stay behind a row of light armoured vehicles.

The court martial heard some stood between vehicles or on top of them and Ravensdale gave the order to fire anyway.

Boutin laid blame on Ravensdale's superiors who approved of his plans for the training exercise and burdened him with being both the officer in charge of the test and the safety officer on the weapons range that day. Military rules require the two tasks be assigned to separate people.

Ravensdale did not testify at his court martial and his lawyer did not call any witnesses. In an interview with a military investigator days after the accident, Ravensdale said he had no idea what went wrong and that "all hell broke loose."

Two of Ravensdale's superiors have already been convicted in the accident.

Maj. Christopher Lunney was demoted to captain and given a severe reprimand after pleading guilty to negligent performance of duty.

Maj. Darryl Watts is awaiting sentencing on charges of negligence and unlawfully causing bodily harm.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2013, 17:57:56 »
Ravensdale's Lawyer is correct.  Ball bearings go forward in a 45 degree angle, not rearward.  I would really like to see the material presented to see the layout of the C19's in relation to where the troops were.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2013, 23:51:24 »
Ravensdale's Lawyer is correct.  Ball bearings go forward in a 45 degree angle, not rearward.  I would really like to see the material presented to see the layout of the C19's in relation to where the troops were.
Not just you. This is a safety issue that everyone should be made aware of.

I would have presumed that if a technical explanation was available that the prosecution would have presented it but the reporting of this case has been of such poor quality that one can't really tell what if any explanation was offered.

One would assume that a technical inspection of the site would have been completed as part of the investigation.

Regardless of what actually caused the ball bearings to travel 'backwards', the RSO failed to ensure that the danger area was clear of unprotected personnel. Tragic failure in leadership at multiple levels.

It's unfortunate that when an event results in legal proceedings, we often keep the technical and safety aspects 'confidential' instead of disseminating them as lessons learned to help prevent further tragedies.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2013, 00:01:16 »
Is there any way we can compel them to publish the tech results?
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2013, 07:35:34 »
I have one question:


What were the Sgts and MCpls doing? Were they present? Or was it Cpls and below only?

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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2013, 08:26:12 »
Is there any way we can compel them to publish the tech results?
Dopey civilian question here:  isn't there some sort of mechanism/SOP to ensure such information is shared for the health/safety of others?  One would hope so, but it appears those tidbits haven't even been shared internally.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2013, 08:58:33 »
Jim I can't be 100% but WO Ravensdale was the lead man on the ground, the SME on the wpn and I believe was overseeing total set up.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2013, 09:33:29 »
Jim I can't be 100% but WO Ravensdale was the lead man on the ground, the SME on the wpn and I believe was overseeing total set up.

Understood, but one of the duties of an NCO, as you know, is to ensure the troops are safe on a range. My point is that one of the Sgts or MCpls should have been appointed to ensure the tps were in the LAVs.....or am I right out of it?
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2013, 10:13:41 »
Understood, but one of the duties of an NCO, as you know, is to ensure the troops are safe on a range. My point is that one of the Sgts or MCpls should have been appointed to ensure the tps were in the LAVs.....or am I right out of it?

Jim, I agree with your thinking.  A lot of people are asking the same questions about the Section Comd/2 ICs.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2013, 11:02:16 »
Dopey civilian question here:  isn't there some sort of mechanism/SOP to ensure such information is shared for the health/safety of others?  One would hope so, but it appears those tidbits haven't even been shared internally.

When the trial is done, it's results will be published.  As courts martial are public trials, there is no secrecy as to what comes out during their conduct.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2013, 11:14:49 »
When the trial is done, it's results will be published.  As courts martial are public trials, there is no secrecy as to what comes out during their conduct.
Seen - thanks!
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2013, 11:52:34 »
There was a BOI conducted. The technical findings will be contained therein. Does anyone have information on when or if it will be released?

Indeed, the ball bearings don't go backwards. That would indicate a systemic manufacturing error which would have been seen more than once.
The only 2 ways that the projectiles ended up going towards the troops is that it was placed wrong ("FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY") - it could happen if some troop was totally disoriented and no one checked it or double-checked (as should have been the case); (I think it should actually say: THIS SIDE TOWARDS ENEMY)
or that the weapon got disrupted by either the blast from a nearby C19 or by someone pulling or tripping over the cable resulting in misalignment.

Can't comment at the moment about the minimum distance between C19s or other demolitions (not fired simultaneously) or if it should even be allowed to place multiple C19 then fired consecutively. The safest course would be to place and fire individually. (If multiple placement is allowed, my personal opinion would be to have a min of  20m between wpns, side by side only and no other demolitions in the relay.) All that may be clarified with the outcomes of the BOI.

Also of concern is one comment in the comments section from a guy that apparently is or was in the military. He said he used pickets to anchor the wpn. DO NOT USE STEEL PICKETS!  or any metal pickets. That will increase the safety template to 1km around the wpn.

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see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2013, 12:36:06 »
There was a BOI conducted. The technical findings will be contained therein. Does anyone have information on when or if it will be released?
Quick Google-fu = nothing in the public domain yet.

If it will be released publicly, maybe the powers that be will wait until any court proceedings are all wrapped up?
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2013, 13:53:40 »
BOI's aren't, as far as I know, generally released and it would take a Information Act request to secure the findings of the Board.
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Re: More Charges in Joshua Caleb Baker 2010 death
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2013, 14:20:31 »
BOI's aren't, as far as I know, generally released and it would take a Information Act request to secure the findings of the Board.
Hopefully the findings will make their way into the Training Safety manuals and other publications related to the use of this weapon soon if not already covered.
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see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)