Author Topic: Question about foreign service, medals and badges and para course for C.I.C.  (Read 63566 times)

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Offline N. McKay

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Wow, this is a nutty topic. Just wear them all together on a blue blazer or something, not much anyone can do about that.

It's good to get it right, even if you won't go to jail for getting it wrong.

Offline Pusser

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Wow, this is a nutty topic. Just wear them all together on a blue blazer or something, not much anyone can do about that.

The OP is asking if he can wear the medals and qualification badge he earned while in the British Army on his CF uniform.  It's a valid question and there is a correct answer.  Why make a lazy comment that doesn't even address what the OP is actually asking?
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Offline Brihard

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Following up- one of our NCOs here at my current tasking served with the Scots Guards, and wears his South Atlantic Medal from the Falklands, his General Service Medal with Northern Ireland bar, and his long sevice/good conduct medal. They are all worn after his CD.
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Offline formercadet1029

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The OP is asking if he can wear the medals and qualification badge he earned while in the British Army on his CF uniform.  It's a valid question and there is a correct answer.  Why make a lazy comment that doesn't even address what the OP is actually asking?
Well, judging by all of the responses, it doesn't seem to be 100% clear as what is what because it seems everyone is on their own plan. Doesn't it? While I think medals are an important part of the overall experience of putting yourself at risk, my attitude about this specific topic is somewhat different than many other people you'll find posting here. I have a couple of good friends in the reserves and reg force, most of them decline to wear these things on their dress uniform unless they are absolutely directed to. Most of us belong to the anti Walts group on facebook.

Moderator edit: Removed link to Facebook page with racist content. You might chuckle at it but it violates site guidelines. It is also in poor taste.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 09:11:35 by Scott »

Offline rmc_wannabe

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Well, judging by all of the responses, it doesn't seem to be 100% clear as what is what because it seems everyone is on their own plan. Doesn't it? While I think medals are an important part of the overall experience of putting yourself at risk, my attitude about this specific topic is somewhat different than many other people you'll find posting here. I have a couple of good friends in the reserves and reg force, most of them decline to wear these things on their dress uniform unless they are absolutely directed to. Most of us belong to the anti Walts group on facebook.


Regardless if the OP was a "Walt" which I doubt he would be asking a simple question such as he did, numerous posters have provided the regs and valid cases of people authorized to wear these medals to enlighten the OP.

Your argument has no validity or context to this thread. You've pretty much accomplished the internet's version of standing on a soapbox on a street corner trying to shout your opinions louder than people carrying on a normal conversation. Congratulations  :salute:

Edited by moderator to remove link, provided in quote from another member, to Facebook group with racist content.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 09:10:09 by Scott »
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Offline Journeyman

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I have a couple of good friends in the reserves and reg force, most of them decline to wear these things on their dress uniform unless they are absolutely directed to.
Which "things" are you specifically referring to -- British jump wings or British campaign medals?

Offline daftandbarmy

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I'm ex-1 PARA.

I wear the Canadian wings with the silver maple leaf and my NI medal. It was all sorted out during the enrolment process. I also wear US wings on my DEU as per SOP.

On my mess kit I wear the Blue Badge of courage on my right shoulder, Commando Dagger on my left (did an exchange with Royal after doing their AACC), Canadian Wings with silver maple leaf (as I also served with a Canadian Operational Parachute unit), US wings, NI medal and CD. Didn't need any permission to put all the foreign bling on the mess kit. Seriously considering transferring it all to a sash of some kind...

I also carry an extremely large wooden racing spoon but you fancy SFSG 'Hollywood crows' probably wouldn't know about that, never having had to eat out of a mess tin like a proper PARA.  ;D
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Most of us belong to the anti Walts group on facebook.

Who is this "us" of whom you speak?  is it people with the same military experience as yourself?

I was a former Army Cadet, joined when I was 12, left when I turned 19 in 1989.

I was the Cadet RSM/CWO, left with Gold Star with Wreath, Advanced First Aide and Crossed Rifles & Crown

Summer Training:

'84 Junior Cadet, Ipperwash
'85 Cadet Leader, Ipperwash
'86 Wilderness Leadership, Petawawa
'87 Leadership and Challenge, Banff
'88 Basic Para, Edmonton
'89 Staff Cadet Wilderness Leadership Basic, Ipperwash

Years later, I received an Army Cadet Long Service medal, with two service bars. I don't recall there being any medal system in place when I was a cadet???

I assume from this that you decline to wear your "Army Cadet Long Service medal, with two service bars" for fear of appearing "Walt-ish"...

Edited by moderator to remove link, provided in quote from another member, to Facebook page with racist content.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 09:09:00 by Scott »
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Offline formercadet1029

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Who is this "us" of whom you speak?  is it people with the same military experience as yourself?

I assume from this that you decline to wear your "Army Cadet Long Service medal, with two service bars" for fear of appearing "Walt-ish"...

Edited by moderator to remove link, provided in quote from another member, to Facebook page with racist content.
I wasn't aware that I had to post my service experience as well (like many of the braggarts found here seem to do every other minute), to qualify my opinion. The original question of that thread you quoted me from was asking what cadet qualifications people had. Typically infantry guy trying to make himself feel better about have to walk everywhere, lol.  :)

BTW, I've never worn my cadet cookie medal, as it sits in a box with the rest of my "real" ones, lol.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 11:31:37 by formercadet1029 »

Offline Michael O'Leary

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I wasn't aware that I had to post my service experience as well (like many of the braggarts found here seem to do every other minute), to qualify my opinion, as your quote is from a cadet only related thread, here in this cadet related forum. BTW, I've never worn my cadet medal, it's in a box with the rest of my "real" ones, lol.

Former cadet,

If you want to try and throw your weight around in a "cadet only related thread" in a "cadet related forum", then I'm sure you can go find an appropriate forum to do that in. Here, you get to deal with the entirety of the membership, and your personal Walt-hunting attitude is not helping. If you want to use that approach elsewhere on the internet, please do so, here we prefer  to wait until someone actually outs themselves in an undeniable fashion, because the only thing worse than being a Walt, is to accuse someone wrongly. There are more than enough people here who can interpret the Dress Manual and current regulations, and who have recent experience with the processes on seeking authorization for items that are not specifically mentioned in the Dress Manual. In comparison you probably don't have much expertise to offer the membership here, and your membership in a self-appointed "walt hunting" group doesn't count for much.  So, rather than trying throw your own weight around here, why don't you relax and let Milnet.ca police its own actions.

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Offline formercadet1029

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Former cadet,

If you want to try and throw your weight around in a "cadet only related thread" in a "cadet related forum", then I'm sure you can go find an appropriate forum to do that in. Here, you get to deal with the entirety of the membership, and your personal Walt-hunting attitude is not helping. If you want to use that approach elsewhere on the internet, please do so, here we prefer  to wait until someone actually outs themselves in an undeniable fashion, because the only thing worse than being a Walt, is to accuse someone wrongly. There are more than enough people here who can interpret the Dress Manual and current regulations, and who have recent experience with the processes on seeking authorization for items that are not specifically mentioned in the Dress Manual. In comparison you probably don't have much expertise to offer the membership here, and your membership in a self-appointed "walt hunting" group doesn't count for much.  So, rather than trying throw your own weight around here, why don't you relax and let Milnet.ca police its own actions.

Milnet.ca Staff
Well, I'm certainly not a Walt hunter by any stretch. My comments in this thread are more than worthy in my opinion, since everyone in here seems to be contradicting each other with whatever info is being posted. There doesn't seem to be clear answer because it's obvious that whatever regulations are in place, people are wearing what they want. My opinion is this, if you're awarded so0me type of service medal under the honours system, then it should be ok to wear it, as many appear to be.

Throwing my weight around? Are suggsting I should go on a diet,, lol? :) Sorry, just my poor attempt at humour.

Offline Strike

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My comments in this thread are more than worthy in my opinion, since everyone in here seems to be contradicting each other with whatever info is being posted. There doesn't seem to be clear answer because it's obvious that whatever regulations are in place, people are wearing what they want.

No one is really contradicting each other.  What they all have pretty much said is to go through the CoC and ask for permission.  There may be different results, but that is due to the various different types of leaders in said CoCs.
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Offline formercadet1029

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No one is really contradicting each other.  What they all have pretty much said is to go through the CoC and ask for permission.  There may be different results, but that is due to the various different types of leaders in said CoCs.
Fair enough. :)

Offline Journeyman

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So once you're done bemoaning braggarts, while claiming to have a box of "real" medals....are you going to answer this question, posed earlier?

Offline formercadet1029

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So once you're done bemoaning braggarts, while claiming to have a box of "real" medals....are you going to answer this question, posed earlier?
Well, I guess I forced into the pissing competition just to validate my opinion, lol. ::) ::) ::) which was the point of my comment, it's unfortunate that a blood sample needs to be provided in this forum just to offer an opinion.

As far as my earlier reference goes, I was at a mess dinner a few months ago in Toronto and a friend of my was taking heat for not wearing his campaign and service medals. His reply was this, in his opinion, the fact that he made it back from his last tour (armoured regiment) without being the target of a Taliban bomb buried in the road should speak miles more than some ribbon and tin ever could.

Offline Journeyman

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You actually claimed a "couple of good friends in the reserves and reg force."

Now, personally, I don't give a crap one way or another about your military experience. My issue here is with the truth/informed opinion primarily; the fact that you contributed nothing but a lame attitude in failing to answer the posted question is a distant second.

Offline PuckChaser

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As far as my earlier reference goes, I was at a mess dinner a few months ago in Toronto and a friend of my was taking heat for not wearing his campaign and service medals. His reply was this, in his opinion, the fact that he made it back from his last tour (armoured regiment) without being the target of a Taliban bomb buried in the road should speak miles more than some ribbon and tin ever could.

If a medal is award it should be worn, whether they're just "ribbon or tin". Sounds like your friend is just pissed he didn't get something prestigious like a MMV or Medal of Bravery.

Offline Pusser

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Well, I guess I forced into the pissing competition just to validate my opinion, lol. ::) ::) ::) which was the point of my comment, it's unfortunate that a blood sample needs to be provided in this forum just to offer an opinion.

As far as my earlier reference goes, I was at a mess dinner a few months ago in Toronto and a friend of my was taking heat for not wearing his campaign and service medals. His reply was this, in his opinion, the fact that he made it back from his last tour (armoured regiment) without being the target of a Taliban bomb buried in the road should speak miles more than some ribbon and tin ever could.

Some ribbon and tin?  Napoleon once opined that with enough coloured ribbon he could conquer the world!  I guess he ran out of ribbon  ;D (the best ribbon manufacturers are in the UK anyway).

Each to his/her own, but just because someone chooses not to wear their medals (for whatever reason) does not mean that the medals themselves have no meaning.  The process to create honours is long, complex and full of checks and balances.  This is why it takes so long to create them.  By the time the Queen personally approves a Canadian honour (and She personally approves all Canadian honours), the criteria, the regulations and the design itself have really gone through the wringer.  These decisions are not taken lightly.  Is it is a perfect process?  No, but no decisions are taken lightly and much debate occurs beforehand (Armed Forces Council, Canadian Honours Policy Committee, Prime Minister's Office, Etc) .

The original poster asked whether he could wear his medals earned while in the British Army on his CF uniform.  The answer, for the most part is probably yes, but there some hoops he has to jump through.  These hoops are actually there to protect the integrity of the Honours System and the respect of the CF uniform and that's a good thing.  I really don't think that flippant remarks about the value of honours or that you should just wear whatever you want on a blue blazer are helpful or appropriate.  Are you saying that the medals worn by members of the Legion are of questionable value?

Most members of the CF, although sometimes humbled by the honours they receive, are justifiably proud of them.  If some choose not to wear them, that's their business, but it is inappropriate to cast aspersions on those who do.  The original poster has, as far as we know, earned his honours from an honours system very much like our own.  He should be permitted to wear them accordingly and with pride.
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Offline formercadet1029

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Most members of the CF, although sometimes humbled by the honours they receive, are justifiably proud of them.  If some choose not to wear them, that's their business, but it is inappropriate to cast aspersions on those who do.  The original poster has, as far as we know, earned his honours from an honours system very much like our own.  He should be permitted to wear them accordingly and with pride.
I agree with you 100%, if you have legit awards inside the system, then there shouldn't be any reason you shouldn't be allowed to wear them.

Offline my72jeep

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For your wings, you will likely have to seek authority up the chain. If you want to attend the CF Para course... don't hold your breath. As a CIC officer you would be well down the priority list (likely falling off the bottom of it).
[/quote]
As a CIC Officer you can apply for one of the 3 officer slots every year with the cadet jump course( these are admim slots but the option to train  jump and qualify are there)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 16:23:33 by my72jeep »
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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As far as my earlier reference goes, I was at a mess dinner a few months ago in Toronto and a friend of my was taking heat for not wearing his campaign and service medals. His reply was this, in his opinion, the fact that he made it back from his last tour (armoured regiment) without being the target of a Taliban bomb buried in the road should speak miles more than some ribbon and tin ever could.

If he has been awarded medals\ decorations, and refuses to wear them while in the proper uniform, he's out of dress and should be given heat.

As well as a few extras to solidify the point.
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Offline Pusser

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If he has been awarded medals\ decorations, and refuses to wear them while in the proper uniform, he's out of dress and should be given heat.

As well as a few extras to solidify the point.

There is actually no regulation that specifically states you must wear your medals.  The regulations only state how they shall be worn if worn.  Should still be good for a few drinks though...
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Offline daftandbarmy

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I wasn't aware that I had to post my service experience as well (like many of the braggarts found here seem to do every other minute), to qualify my opinion. The original question of that thread you quoted me from was asking what cadet qualifications people had. Typically infantry guy trying to make himself feel better about have to walk everywhere, lol.  :)

BTW, I've never worn my cadet cookie medal, as it sits in a box with the rest of my "real" ones, lol.

Hellloooooooo..... I'm right heeeerrrreeeee!  ;D

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Offline PuckChaser

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There is actually no regulation that specifically states you must wear your medals.  The regulations only state how they shall be worn if worn.  Should still be good for a few drinks though...

To me, a regulation stating how medals will be worn is an implied order that if you're awarded a medal you will wear it, and in the following manner.

Offline Blackadder1916

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There is actually no regulation that specifically states you must wear your medals.  The regulations only state how they shall be worn if worn.  Should still be good for a few drinks though...

To me, a regulation stating how medals will be worn is an implied order that if you're awarded a medal you will wear it, and in the following manner.

What do the regulations state?

In QR&Os

Quote
Section 2 – Wearing

18.11 – GENERAL

(1) No officer or non-commissioned member shall wear
an order, decorations, medal or the ribbon representing
any of them without authority.

(2) The order and manner of wearing orders, decorations,
medals and the ribbons representing them shall be as
notified by the Chief of the Defence Staff
.

(M)

18.12 – NON-MILITARY DECORATIONS AND
MEDALS

(1) No officer or non-commissioned member when in
uniform shall wear a non-military decoration or medal, or
the ribbon representing any such decoration or medal,
except:

. . . . . .

And the manner that the CDS used for notification is CFP 265:

Quote
CHAPTER 4

ORDERS, DECORATIONS, MEDALS AND
OTHER HONOURS

POLICY

1. Authorized honours (orders, decorations,
medals, and the insignia for mentions-indispatches,
commendations and citations) may be
worn
, when appropriate, by entitled personnel.
Where doubt exists on entitlement, the Command
concerned shall refer the matter to NDHQ/DHH for
clarification. No officer or non-commissioned
member shall carry or wear an order, decoration or
medal while engaged in operations against the
enemy.

2. Orders, decorations and medals may be
worn
with ceremonial and mess dress orders. See
Chapter 2, Annex A, and Chapter 6. Guidance on
selecting honours for wear should follow the
principles in sub-sub-paragraphs 7.a.(1) and (2)
and sub-paragraph 8.a.

3. Undress ribbons and related insignia are
worn on lesser dress orders as detailed in
paragraph 11. and Chapter 6.

. . . . .

Doesn't seem to be any implied orders there, the operative word is "may" - which shall be construed as permissive.  Nor does the dress instructions permit any lower level of command to change them to suit local whims.
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