Author Topic: Dealing with disrespectful cadets?  (Read 9284 times)

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Offline A.Khan

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Dealing with disrespectful cadets?
« on: September 21, 2011, 23:20:43 »
After 3-4 years with Cadets, I've met my fair share of "Bad" Cadets. You know the kids that make the smart *** comments, try to snag a cheap laugh from the class, insult the instructor, don't stop talking, disobey orders, etc. etc.

All this time in cadets and I am now achieving the seniority role in cadets. My squadron hassles my level about being leaders and responsibility and such. I am pretty excited to see my work in cadets paying off and I am finally after such a long time in a role or responsibility, but the raises the question what am I going to do about those annoying kids?

There are so many restrictions in cadets nowadays that really restrict you from disciplining cadets. I mean you can't yell at them individually, you can't shout, you can't be aggressive or  intimidating, you can't hit them (not that you would but a nudge or shake usually does the trick), you can't resort to physical fitness either... I mean the only thing you can do is tattle on them.

My question is for the veteran or senior cadets, what were some of the things you did to keep your cadets in-line? I remember staff at camp making us right dress for prolong periods of times but that's about it?

Offline RemembranceDay

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Re: Dealing with disrespectful cadets?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 23:49:35 »
Hello,

I'm in the exact same situation as you. Except the thing is, many of the DPO's (At my corp) aren't much better, and *MOST* (not all) of them set a bad example. *I* find the main cause for repeated misbehavior is lack of wanting to be there. Talk to the cadet after, like friend to friend, not as authority, and ask if he/she likes cadets, wants to be there, etc. If the answer is no, depending on your rank, either talk to the parents when possible (I'm saying this if you're a Chief, Coxswain, etc) or tell your CO/XO. Tell them that you've talked to him/her and that they don't want to be there. I know that a lot of people are forced to go due to their parents wanting to instill discipline (etc) in them, but it fails due to lack of respect in the first place, pr just not into it, or even an underlying condition. Suggest (Again, depending on rank) that an officer talk with the parents about behavior, why they don't want to be there/other reason, and what can be done to prevent it. But after reporting the behavior and most likely cause, it is up to your officer.

With all the best,
RD

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Re: Dealing with disrespectful cadets?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 23:55:16 »
You can try and reason with them and if that doesn't do anything...you bring it up your chain of commmand.  You seem to be under the impression that there are things you can do to torture your cadets into submission.  I use the term torture simply because making someone stand in the heat in a stress position (ie, right dress) because they think they have a legal authority to do so is pretty much just that.  If the kids truly are problematic and giving them some one on one attention or counselling as to their behaviour isn't working, the CoC needs to get involved.  Having just finished working as a volunteer at my kid's Sqn, I can see where you'd fall into the trap of problem kids being problems that get worse, because people won't take that extra couple of seconds to actually talk civilly them, let them know the transgression and show them how to do the thing properly, even if it's just sitting still.  It may be that the parents are using the place as a respite for them, thinking that "some sense will be knocked into them" because they've been watching "Taps" too many times.  Sometimes it takes the CO of the unit to have a chat with Junior's parents about what Cadets is really all about and that maybe some stuff should be back on their lap - you're not there as the parents, you're there to try to teach the kids about being a good citizen as well as some cool stuff lots of people would kill to learn about.  If a kid is disrespectful in a class, I'd suggest telling them firmly and calmly to stop and if that doesn't do the trick, march them straight to your Senior Cadet, tell them the issue and have them sort it out...even if it's just them going to march them into the Trg O or CO's office.  Most people, especially teenagers, have learned to tune out people yelling at them - looking them in the eye, talking to them in a calm manner with carefully chosen words, actually puts you back in control and conveys more disappointment than yelling.  Getting them out of a situation that incites them also takes some of the spotlight off of them and lets the people that are there to learn something continue to do so.  It's called leadership - you have to use your people skills to get them to do what you want.  Abuse of [what little] authority [you think you have] and of your subordinates will just get you in heaps of trouble you can ill afford to get into.

 :2c:

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Offline Boysen

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Re: Dealing with disrespectful cadets?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2011, 01:27:42 »
The only time you need to be "yelling" is to make your self heard across distance or over noise. I have found when dealing with an issue a low quite voice is far more effective than yelling. If a cadet is stiring up trouble, it's often because they are not being engaged or challenged, so they get bored. Give them something to do and some responsibility. Give them an opportunity to see how demanding leadership can be. And most of all, talk to them and get to know them. Maybe there's something going on with them. Don't be their friend, but be someone they can talk to. You might just be able to help solve a problem before it gets bad.

Cheers
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 14:17:35 by Boysen »
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Re: Dealing with disrespectful cadets?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2011, 05:55:51 »
I mean you can't yell at them individually, you can't shout, you can't be aggressive or  intimidating, you can't hit them (not that you would but a nudge or shake usually does the trick), you can't resort to physical fitness either... I mean the only thing you can do is tattle on them.

My question is for the veteran or senior cadets, what were some of the things you did to keep your cadets in-line? I remember staff at camp making us right dress for prolong periods of times but that's about it?

Even if you were allowed to do any of these I wouldn't recommend any of them... 'cept for PT, and only if you're going to do it too (aka don't ask for 10 pushups if you're not going to get down on your face doing 10 pushups as well).
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Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Dealing with disrespectful cadets?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2011, 07:19:16 »
Mop and pail, picking up garbage outside, sweeping the floors etc. There are options. Go through your CoC for permission.

Worse comes to worse, march 'em in front of the CO and let him sort it out. Kids get kicked out of Cadets all the time.

Regards
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Offline N. McKay

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Re: Dealing with disrespectful cadets?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2011, 07:56:41 »
There's some very good advice above.

My last unit had a system of defaulters.  Every PO2 and above had access to a supply of short forms they could use to report any disciplinary issue, and they were encouraged to make liberal use of them.  They left them in the XO's mailbox and he'd review them every training night.  Most resulted in his having a chat with the cadet and explaining, as firmly or gently as appropriate in the circumstances, what went wrong and how to do it properly.  He had a variety of corrective measures available to him (extra work, loss of various privileges, etc.) and I (as the CO) had control of more severe measures (reduction in rank, cease training for a time, and up to release from the unit) that I could take if a cadet was persistently making trouble.

The key is to be calm and professional all of the time, be scrupulously fair, and document everything.  We had very few recurring disciplinary problems and the one or two we did have were backed up with a stack of paper so if a parent were ever to enquire as to why Bloggins was passed over for promotion we had no trouble explaining to his or her satisfaction.

Yelling, getting into peoples' faces, and making a spectacle if the whole thing is rarely effective, and even if it works once it won't work very long.  If you treat cadets like young men and women and expect a high standard of behaviour from them then you will usually get it as long as they have good examples to follow.  Calm, assured, professionalism wins over hysterics every time.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 04:46:05 by N. McKay »

Offline RussBar119

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Re: Dealing with disrespectful cadets?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2011, 18:12:24 »
The CATO referencing the discipline of Cadets is below. It is not perfect but it is a good reference to base any disciplinary actions. I would suggest printing a copy and keeping it with your leaders notebook for reference in the future.

http://www.cadets.net/est/2497armee/References/CATO%2015-22%20CONDUCT%20CODE.pdf

This site here will get you the CATO 15-22 and the Annex's, Annex A is a good reference chart.

http://www.cadets.ca/support/cato-oaic/admin5.aspx

Hope this helps.
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