Author Topic: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]  (Read 601717 times)

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Offline BulletMagnet

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BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« on: December 08, 2011, 20:50:09 »
All

As of now recruits and Officer Cadets WILL be allowed to have access to their personal electronics (Cell phone, Laptop, IPod etc etc) for the entire course.

no longer will they be taken for the first 4 weeks of training and then accessed only on weekends after the 4 week in-doc. Now all candidates will have access to them for the entire course.

The Commandant has taken this step as it was seen to reduce the VR rate by 66% during the trial PL's that were run.

On a personal note many of you will cry havoc at this step (myself included) but he is the CO and thus we follow his directives. Do I like it no, do I agree with it HELL NO but there it is. And people wonder why I am releasing....  ::)

Edit: Spelling
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 22:51:12 by kratz »
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

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Offline Technoviking

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 20:55:07 »
The Commandant has take this step as it was seen to reduce the VR rate by 66% during the trial PL's that were run.
You are quite right to point out that it's his policy.


However....

Has he considered that maybe those who VR'd because they had no access to iThings for a few weeks are just maybe not exactly the kind of people that are wanted in a military force?


(Just curious)
So, there I was....

Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 21:01:43 »
TV

Feel free to ask, we weren't allowed to question it, same goes with the ND policy....

EDIT: Spelling
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

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Offline dangerboy

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2011, 21:05:30 »
They are going to be in for a culture shock when they finish BMQ and if they end up on a BMQ(Land) course that I am running.  I confiscate the electronics day one of the course.
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time.
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Offline MCG

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, 21:06:39 »
If a person cannot go four weeks without smartphone, tablet and laptop - how does that person function in operational environments where they may need to be seperated from those things for longer periods?


Offline yoman

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 21:09:02 »
same goes with the ND policy....

Could you clarify this by any chance?
"Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish." John Quincy Adams

Offline MJP

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 21:10:46 »
All

As of now recruits and Officer Cadets WILL be allowed to have access to their personal electronics (Cell phone, Laptop, IPod etc etc) for the entire course.

no longer will they be taken for the first 4 weeks of training and then accessed only on weekends after the 4 week in-doc. Now all candidates will have access to them for the entire course.



I see will have access and having time to do so as two different things ;)  I also foresee instructors becoming even more inventive in ensuring troops are busy right up to lights out.  I feel for you BM, having known quite a few folks that have instructed there, you guys are busy as it is.

Hope is not a valid COA

Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 21:20:59 »
MJP

Sadly we aren't on the floor until lights out which is 2300hrs. Generally they are given an O Group at the end of training with a list of activities they must accomplish by lights out. Without the Electronics they had little else to do but accomplish the tasks, now well...

I used to come in on my own time to supervise and such being single it was easy for me. Now however I see the married guys going to have to take a hit on this and families will suffer Workday starts at 0500hrs home often times at 1700-2000hrs  now it may well be 0500hrs till 2300hrs and that is simply in my book not OK.

During the trial there was a marked decrease in teamwork and overall standard. But the CO said during the brief he didn't care as long as they met the school standard by grad. Which they essentially do because as long as you pass the tests and don't get counseled out and re-coursed you will pass. Doesn't mean they can function as a team member or have an individual military standard but I digress.

That is the policy and it will stand regardless of what we think or say... Unless someone really high up has a serious issue then maybe it will change but I don't see that happening either.
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

When the going gets tough I take a nap...It's easier that way

Offline MJP

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 21:30:13 »
MJP

Sadly we aren't on the floor until lights out which is 2300hrs. Generally they are given an O Group at the end of training with a list of activities they must accomplish by lights out. Without the Electronics they had little else to do but accomplish the tasks, now well...

I used to come in on my own time to supervise and such being single it was easy for me. Now however I see the married guys going to have to take a hit on this and families will suffer Workday starts at 0500hrs home often times at 1700-2000hrs  now it may well be 0500hrs till 2300hrs and that is simply in my book not OK.



Ack

We use to only have the marching NCO stay late to ensure troops were on task.  To allow the troops to get work done they didn't stay on the floor but rather did random spot checks during the evening.  At least that way you were only taking the stay late hit once a week or so.  But my experience is dated and not at CFLRS.
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aesop081

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2011, 06:26:39 »

The Commandant has taken this step as it was seen to reduce the VR rate by 66% during the trial PL's that were run.


The solution was to recruit different people, not change how we do things. Oh well, orders are orders.

Hopefully they don't come work at my unit. No cell phones or electronic devices allowed.

Offline SentryMAn

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2011, 08:23:32 »
I can understand this, the young people of today have never lived without so taking away from them goes along with the ridiculous rules that we are seeing in our school systems.  It will be interesting to see these folks and their careers in the next 10-15 years.

Countless other people completed Basic without a cellular phone, Countless others completed it with the use of the pay phones only.  There are a section of youth today that really need to have their eyes opened up.


Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2011, 09:23:18 »
There are a section of youth today that really need to have their eyes opened up.

No doubt the arrival of pay phones on bases, and then in quarters, and portable radios, record players and tape recorders, and the first cell phones were all equally declaimed as signs of the coming apocalypse for the level of distraction they were guaranteed to create in their respective decades.  Perhaps we should wait and see if the staff document a noticeable effect on the training environement that might convince the CO, or his successor, to change the policy if needed.

Offline Robert0288

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2011, 10:31:03 »
I like how this instantly went modern electronics = death and destruction of the CF as we know it. ::)  As people have said, there is immediate kick to the face of CFLRS and the culture shock.  However just because they went through it doesn't mean it was the most beneficial thing out there.   What stops staff from coming in, seeing people on their devices instead of doing unfinished tasks? I'm fairly certain the result will not be pretty. I'm also pretty sure people would be straightened out pretty fast by their course mates if they happen to bugger off and try to watch a movie while there is floor waxing to be done.  Which happened exactly once on my reserve BMQ before the weight of the entire PL fell firmly on the guys face.

Right now I'm doing paper work at NDHQ and I've seen many files crossing my desk about recruits having to VR because of unforeseen family issues.  Now its true they might actually be useless individuals who we don't want and will be 5F'd/5D'd in the near future, but they could also be good troops.  If sending a couple of text messages 5min before lights out happens to help, I don't see the harm in extending the trial.... At least not yet.

Offline Craisome

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2011, 11:06:35 »
Sweet because I can talk with the family :)

but not so sweet because my old work will call :(

aesop081

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2011, 11:38:21 »
::) 

You have your years of experience.........i have mine.

Oh, wait......

Offline kenmnuggas

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2011, 13:46:53 »
To me, this seems like taking a work phone on vacation. What little positive impact it will have on your time there is more than outdone by the distractions.
But, of course, nobody asked me.

I'm still planning to leave my laptop at home during BMOQ though - whenever that happens!

Offline Precept

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2011, 14:06:49 »
It's interesting. They provide multiple pay phones on each of the floors which cadets can access at any time of the night after training hours and before 23:00. So it's not like people are actually cut off from talking to their family. When I went through CFLRS, I was under the mindset "Just give me my phone so I don't have to pay more for calling cards", but I was in no way sour about the fact that I only got it on weekends. I'm also one of those people who can't live without an iGadget on the end of my fingers every day. I can't believe people struggle so much with this, especially when there is a phone on the wall they can use when ever they want to.

I'm actually glad I didn't have my phone during my course, because it forced me to become closer with the recruits around me, and wasn't a distraction every night. Lord knows I'd a been a lot less productive throughout the nights. It also meant I didn't have to put up with my family on a regular basis! :o

However, having completed a BMQ(L) with electronics, I don't know what I would have done without them. It was boring enough as it was!

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2011, 14:44:32 »
I don't see this as a bad thing at all. My Platoon had ONE Voluntary Release.. and I do believe it had something to do with us being able to call home easily every night, and deal with the small problems that arose.

In the real world, things are not like that. Its all fine and dandy that you only had one VR, but what will the others do when they can't call or email home for weeks ?

BMQ indoctrinates people into military life. Achieving high graduation rates by avoiding reality only produces substandard graduates. We made that mistake already with PT standards there............

Offline Precept

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2011, 14:49:03 »

I don't see this as a bad thing at all. My Platoon had ONE Voluntary Release.. and I do believe it had something to do with us being able to call home easily every night, and deal with the small problems that arose.

There are 5 pay phones on the floor. How is it difficult to call home every night? ???


Offline PMedMoe

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2011, 15:14:57 »
So, when these people are in a place where they can't "call home easily every night, and deal with the small problems that arise" will they release then?

 ::)
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Offline SentryMAn

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2011, 15:47:44 »
If there is a family emergency all your family has to do it contact the school instead of plastering it on facebook.

What ever will these people do if they can't tweet while on deployment?? They can't even handle 4 weeks without their Iphone before they shut er down in basic ::)

What a joke.

I could see the news article now....
Cdn soldier Tweets "My platoon is hiking up XZY hill today...." and gets ambushed by Militants. 

LOL


One thing I would love to see more of is MANDATORY cellular etiquette classes taught to all ages both in and pout of the forces.  It might limit the people that check their phone at inappropriate times.

Offline MJP

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 16:55:06 »
I could see the news article now....
Cdn soldier Tweets "My platoon is hiking up XZY hill today...." and gets ambushed by Militants. 

Troops overseas have been able to buy and use civvie cell phones for quite some time and nothing of the sort has happened yet.  Not to say it can't, as the IDF had to cancel a raid because of a soldiers FB status.  But I tend to give the benefit of doubt to trained soldiers to not do silly things.

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Offline fauntania

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 17:52:27 »
Personally, I'm kind of old school and I find the way everyone is always staring at phones and texting and whatnot to be highly irritating.  I was looking forward to that being minimal at BMQ, and who knows, maybe it still will be.  On the good side - perhaps the pay phones won't have such line ups so when I go to call home, it won't take so long.   ;D

Offline Spinaker

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 18:10:48 »
Could you clarify this by any chance?

Interested as well.

The ND policy that is.
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Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 18:19:30 »
ND Policy:

No longer will the candidate be charge for having an ND in the clearing bay.

Again not my call....
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

When the going gets tough I take a nap...It's easier that way