Author Topic: Question on legal knife length in Canada  (Read 192237 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Question on legal knife length in Canada
« on: December 18, 2011, 19:41:28 »
Is this knife legally allowed to be carried in Canada?

http://www.crkt.com/M16-13-Special-Forces-Tan-G10-Handle-Tanto-AutoLAWKS-Veff-Combo

Website says the blade length is 3.5"
Box says it's 3" and measuring the actual cutting edge of the blade it's 3"

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Offline DexOlesa

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2011, 20:10:28 »
I believe anything under 5 inches is allowed

Offline Container

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 20:13:56 »
there is no restriction as long as it isnt concealed and you are carrying it for a lawful purpose. Self defense isnt a lawful purpose- so a sword to cut seat belts would be confiscated.

I have this in black I believe and carry it in my kit. I know several others with this style and size.
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline GAP

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 20:21:52 »
What is considered concealed? In a sheath on your belt or something similar would be acceptable, would it not?
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Offline Container

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 21:01:21 »
In my experience in several provinces is concealment is in the intent. As in it appears you are attempting to conceal its presence- not merely covering it. Lika a regular knife in your pocket would be by definition concealed but your intent is just to transport it.

My duty knife is in my pocket with the clip outside. Being on your belt in a sheath, and taking it off before entering places where it isnt allowed, or taking it out of your pocket wouldnt be considered, again in my experience, concealing a weapon. Its a tool- there are alot of legitimate uses for knives that arent killing folks. It only becomes a concealed weapon when you wear it inside your pants for self defence....

does that make sense? Its a very difficult thing to get charged for. Usually it comes about when two idiots are fighting drunk and one guys buddy produces a tanto from his waist band.

YMMV
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline Container

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2011, 21:06:38 »
that said- I currently work with a police officer stupid as the day is long. She would more than likely charge anyone for any knife she didnt notice right away.

Best practice is if your carrying it have it at least partially visible or in a sheath that looks like a knife sheath.

Until we figure out how to fix cops with no common sense the rest of us have to stay a step above even the accusation.
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2011, 21:23:10 »
Thanks all for the replies. I've never carried a knife before, I'm going to carry it in my pocket with the clip on the outside.

that said- I currently work with a police officer stupid as the day is long. She would more than likely charge anyone for any knife she didnt notice right away.

Best practice is if your carrying it have it at least partially visible or in a sheath that looks like a knife sheath.

Until we figure out how to fix cops with no common sense the rest of us have to stay a step above even the accusation.

I know what you mean, sorta.

I had my cities 'chief firearms officer' argue with me telling me it was legal to have a 9mm automatic with 15 round magazines but .45 because it's a special caliber, you are only allowed a magazine of 5.
The police were helping me get confiscated pistols back so it was a very polite argument on my behalf :)

Kinda weird rules around knives. A butter fly knife or 4 inch German ww2 gravity knife would be illegal, but a 9 inch hunting knife isn't.
It's too bag push daggers are illegal too.
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Offline Container

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2011, 21:31:08 »
id say the only thing "special" about your situation is the "Chief Firearms Officer"
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline ballz

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2011, 21:32:06 »
Container,

Whats the word on assisted-openers? I couldn't get a sog trident assisted-opener from knifecenter.com because they were getting too many stopped at the border, but I know a store in Ottawa that sells them now.

Even though I think automatics should be legal, it stands to reason that since they aren't then assisted-openers would also be illegal.
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Offline DexOlesa

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2011, 21:40:53 »
Quote
I had my cities 'chief firearms officer' argue with me telling me it was legal to have a 9mm automatic with 15 round magazines but .45 because it's a special caliber, you are only allowed a magazine of 5.

Just....Just.... :facepalm:

Offline Container

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2011, 21:47:39 »
If you mean those one hand opening knives/ assisted knives- they are legal as far as I know. I dont have my criminal code in front of me- but being legal and not having a CBSA agent tie your item up for years in red tape and appeals are two different things. 99% of those agents are fine. But I always seem to get a 1% guy.

I lost a lazer, dont ask, to CBSA that was completely legal. Body builiding supplements, firearms parts, tac gear......all to be never seen again because some guy who grew up in Toronto feels like he's doing the lords work by protecting Canada from items that resemble something thats prohibited.

I now buy my stuff in Canada if it even looks like it could confuse a city slicker so I avoid these types of situations.

Never apply reason to how things get prohibited- two basically identical items can wind up with one prohibited and one not. The people that make these calls generally dont understand the subject matter....that last part is opinion- but when two same things can have one be okay....something isnt firing correctly.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 21:51:56 by Container »
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline RemembranceDay

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2011, 22:19:20 »
Would there be any length restrictions on sailing knives for recreational purposes? I plan on sailing in an area that's well-patroled come spring, rather be safe than sorry.

Offline Container

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 23:23:12 »
Im sorry- Im not trying to be rude and I may just be completely ignorant of sailing- but if there is a "sailing knife" the utility of which is well known for being involved in sailing safely or efficiently why would there be a restriction on it?

Ive seen some gnarly diving knives that are machete sized that are fine for using while diving. Knives in bakerys....know what I mean?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 23:25:57 by Container »
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline Precept

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 20:36:25 »
If you mean those one hand opening knives/ assisted knives- they are legal as far as I know.

Believe the CCC says anything that is opened by the push of a button, gravity, or centrifugal force is prohibited. IE- Butterfly knife or a switchblade. I searched the "sog trident assisted-opener" on YouTube, and the one I saw opened with the push of a button, which is a no go.

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 21:28:02 »
Believe the CCC says anything that is opened by the push of a button, gravity, or centrifugal force is prohibited. IE- Butterfly knife or a switchblade. I searched the "sog trident assisted-opener" on YouTube, and the one I saw opened with the push of a button, which is a no go.

I buy Knives in the US on a regular basis and each and every one I tighten up the screws so a overzealous customs agents don't flick them open with one hand and seize it.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 21:51:28 »
Container,

Whats the word on assisted-openers? I couldn't get a sog trident assisted-opener from knifecenter.com because they were getting too many stopped at the border, but I know a store in Ottawa that sells them now.

Check out the line of knives by CKRT in the sytle the original poster showed....

They've got a pair of teflon washers in them, and they open one handed, as fast, as smooth, and as easy as assisted opening knives, no springs to mess around with... just a pair of teflon washers, take it completely apart, clean, oil, and reassemble in a few minutes... I own several... including one very similar to the one shown by the original poster (Which, by the way, I don't recommen at all... the wide "guard" at the base of the knife doesn't serve any purpose other then looking cool... just makes it dangerous carry in a pocket... have a look at the M16 series, much better...)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 22:00:13 by a Sig Op »

Offline Occam

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 22:22:47 »
Would there be any length restrictions on sailing knives for recreational purposes? I plan on sailing in an area that's well-patroled come spring, rather be safe than sorry.

It was always easy to tell a "new" sailor on the ships - they were the ones carrying the fancy knives with 8" blades right out of a Hollywood movie.  Most seasoned bosuns would be seen wearing a sheath with one of these and a marlin spike, and get along with just about any ropework you'd find on a ship.

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 23:10:56 »
Would there be any length restrictions on sailing knives for recreational purposes? I plan on sailing in an area that's well-patroled come spring, rather be safe than sorry.

I see by your profile you're in the cadets and I assume you are talking about sailing on a cadet ship.

Here are the rules we follow in the Navy

2118. Knives
1. Switch blades, butterfly knives, double edge blades, or similar spring-loaded knives are prohibited.
2. No one shall have onboard a knife with a blade longer than four inches, unless the knife is carried openly
and required for seamanship purposes.
3. All personnel employed on the upper deck during the normal course of their duties shall carry the approved
seaman’s knife IAW the scale of issue. These personnel include, but are not limited to:
(a) Bosns;
(b) RAS Teams;
(c) Boats crews and lowerers;
(d) Part ship hands; and
(e) Pers standing upper deck watches.
4. All remaining members of the ship’s company shall carry a knife at sea.
5. Martial Arts weapons such as Fighting Sticks, Throwing Stars and any others prohibited by law, are
prohibited.

That being said a knife like the Russell Grohmman with marlin spike would suffice. It is the same issue knife as issued on surface ships.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Container

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 23:15:17 »
Believe the CCC says anything that is opened by the push of a button, gravity, or centrifugal force is prohibited. IE- Butterfly knife or a switchblade. I searched the "sog trident assisted-opener" on YouTube, and the one I saw opened with the push of a button, which is a no go.

The location of the button is what would make it prohibited.
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline ballz

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2011, 07:05:40 »
Believe the CCC says anything that is opened by the push of a button, gravity, or centrifugal force is prohibited. IE- Butterfly knife or a switchblade. I searched the "sog trident assisted-opener" on YouTube, and the one I saw opened with the push of a button, which is a no go.

From Wiki, but it has citations:
Section 84(1) defines such knives as "a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife".

Obviously the important part to do with the SOG Trident Folder would be "hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device" and "in or attached to the handle of the knife."

The SOG Trident Folder doesn't have a button, it has a thumbscrew, but I suppose that's really an "other device." However, the thumb screw is on the blade, not "in or attached" to the handle... which is what Container said here:

The location of the button is what would make it prohibited.

But the spring that is having pressure applied to it (via the thumbscrew) is obviously inside the handle, but does that count?... :-S

Sounds to me that the one-handed openers that Grimaldus and A Sig Op are talking about are the safest bets WRT avoiding legal troubles since "One-handed opening knives have been designated as legal to import by Canada Border Services as long as they don't fall into one of the prohibited categories" (needs a citation).... despite the fact that there is absolutely no difference between any of them... Container said it the way I've felt about it for a while: don't try to apply any reason or logic to this stuff.
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2011, 08:27:32 »
The sad part about it is that custom agents and police has their own set of rules to play by and you are taking a chance that their interpretation of the rules that your knife or whatever you are bringing in may be illegal in their eyes and seized. Then you are the one that has to prove that it isn't and most of the time there is significant time and cost involved.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2011, 08:34:20 »
Or buy from inside the country... there's retailers in Canada selling spring assisted knives... let them assume the risk of dealing with customs.

Offline ballz

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2011, 08:41:43 »
As Chief Stoker mentioned, I'd be more worried about the risk of getting charged with possession of a prohibited weapon than I am about a knife getting stopped by customs. If it gets stopped by customs I lose the purchase price of the knife, if I get charged I lose the price of a good lawyer, which is about the same price of a good knife per hour :-\

Let's be serious, the Crown would probably charge you if you had anything remotely close, they've got an unlimited budget. And Sig Op you know the RNC would love to have "RNC seize prohibited weapon, man charged for possession" in the Telegram here in St. John's.
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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2011, 08:43:42 »
And Sig Op you know the RNC would love to have "RNC seize prohibited weapon, man soldier charged for possession" in the Telegram here in St. John's.

There, all fixed  ;)

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Question on legal knife length in Canada
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 08:46:13 »
Ballz, check your PMs.

That, and *believe it or not* the RNC is fairly sensible about such things... the provinces chief firearms officer is usually pretty sensible as well.